New CD47 sized tubes?!

[Kevin A.]

Looks like there is a new player in the Czech Republic making some big tubes, apparently inspired by the CD47:

http://nixieproducer.com/index.php/nixie-tube-jp47rodan-cd47gr-414

 

[gregebert]

I see similarities with Dalibor's manufacturing process, notably the flat crimp for bringing-out the leads. The tubulation at the base is different, and typical of many nixies. It appears the numerals are hand-made by bending wire. The connecting wires glow along with the numeral. Still, very impressive to see someone else actually getting one to work.

I'm going to wait-and-see before I consider buying one; making a tube this size is very difficult, and the large size means more sources of contaminants and mechanical-strength challenges. Digits nearly 6 inches tall would make an obnoxiously big clock; gotta make one !

[Robert G. Schaffrath]

The anode being used looks kind of funky compared to the one used on the CD47. It reminds me of the metal cloth fencing I buy at Home Depot to keep the rabbits out of my garden:

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Everbilt-1-4-in-x-2-ft-x-100-ft-Hardware-Cloth-308245EB/205960853

[gregebert]

Copy that. Off-the-shelf metal could easily be recycled and contain a lot of impurities. 

Once he's sold enough to invest in helium leak-detection, and moved the tubulation away from the crimp, I will consider buying one tube to experiment with.

Getting a uniform glow across the digits was a major accomplishment, so I think this guy will succeed with enough time and money.

[Paul Andrews]

They look pretty good to me. $280 seems reasonable, but I can't justify spending that right now :-(

On Wednesday, October 30, 2019 at 9:43:59 PM UTC-4, Kevin A. wrote:

[Kevin A.]

Interestingly he posted an update just today: the tube is ready to go into production, but due to the apparent lack of interest he is hesitant to go into full production for early 2020. 

The post reads that there are only about 16 tubes on order, but to make production viable he is looking to collect orders for around 100 throughout 2020. If he does not reach that goal by the end of 2020 it's off for good.

I'd love to get my hands on some huge tubes; definitely going to place an order for 6 before the end of the year.  

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[Nicholas Stock]

What's his warranty like?

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[Kevin A.]

I'd like to know also. I've got another friend who is interested in ordering 8 tubes. That makes 15 between the two of us. Does anyone see his email? 

Also, Paul, where were you able to find the price? 

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[jb-electronics]

The email is here, http://nixieproducer.com/index.php/kontakty , it is plavec(AT)nixieproducer.com

He is not willing to sell what he calls "unofficially" so if you are interested in just one piece to see what the quality or the electrical parameters are like, don't bother.

Jens

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[Kevin A.]

Jens,

Sounds like you've had some experience contacting him. Do you know if he is fulfilling orders now or just taking money for "pre-orders"?

Anything else we should know about?

Thanks,

Kevin 

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[jb-electronics]

Yes, I contacted him, asking whether I could buy one tube for my collection. He said that he is not selling anything now "unofficially" (whatever that means), and it seems like he is only taking preorders.

Jens

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[Marcin Adamski]

'Selling unofficially' may mean outside of a registered company. He may
be in a process of setting his own company up and getting all paperwork
in order.

Marcin

On 1/11/2019 10:10, jb-electronics wrote:
> Yes, I contacted him, asking whether I could buy one tube for my
> collection. He said that he is not selling anything now "unofficially"
> (whatever that means), and it seems like he is only taking preorders.
>
> Jens
>
> On 2019-10-31 5:03 p.m., Kevin A. wrote:
>> Jens,
>>
>> Sounds like you've had some experience contacting him. Do you know if
>> he is fulfilling orders now or just taking money for "pre-orders"?
>>
>> Anything else we should know about?
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Kevin
>>
>> On Thu, Oct 31, 2019 at 7:00 PM jb-electronics
>> <webm...@jb-electronics.de <mailto:webm...@jb-electronics.de>> wrote:
>>
>> The email is here, http://nixieproducer.com/index.php/kontakty ,

>> it is plavec(AT)nixieproducer.com <http://nixieproducer.com>

>>
>> He is not willing to sell what he calls "unofficially" so if you
>> are interested in just one piece to see what the quality or the
>> electrical parameters are like, don't bother.
>>
>> Jens
>>
>> On 2019-10-31 4:53 p.m., Kevin A. wrote:
>>> I'd like to know also. I've got another friend who is interested
>>> in ordering 8 tubes. That makes 15 between the two of us. Does
>>> anyone see his email?
>>>
>>> Also, Paul, where were you able to find the price?
>>>
>>> On Thu, Oct 31, 2019 at 6:35 PM Nicholas Stock
>>> <nick...@gmail.com <mailto:nick...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>
>>> What's his warranty like?
>>>
>>> On Thu, Oct 31, 2019 at 3:14 PM Kevin A.
>>> <ka...@scarletmail.rutgers.edu

>>> <mailto:neonixie-l+...@googlegroups.com>.

>>> To view this discussion on the web, visit
>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/neonixie-l/fe5d6848-806e-4df1-b994-9104e3ca5b2d%40googlegroups.com

>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/neonixie-l/fe5d6848-806e-4df1-b994-9104e3ca5b2d%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>.

>>>
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>>
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[Paul Andrews]

Price is here; http://nixieproducer.com/index.php/cenik

On Oct 31, 2019, at 7:28 PM, Marcin Adamski <marcin.r...@gmail.com> wrote:

'Selling unofficially' may mean outside of a registered company. He may be in a process of setting his own company up and getting all paperwork in order.

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[Kevin A.]

I think you're right Marcin. I wrote him yesterday about buying tubes; he indicated to me that:

"...if nobody renounces the interest, I open the official shop and start selling. Sending JP47 cannot be done illegally, I would expose the possibility of fines from the authorities."

He seems apprehensive about selling without being established legally first. Another point to note is that he also expressed concerns about selling to US customers, as he has a perception that people in the US start lawsuits if any issue should result from the use of a product.

His summary: 

"Nixie will only be sold in the EU zone, I will not sell nixie outside the EU. Maybe in time, there will be someone interested in business cooperation and selling nixie outside the EU on his own responsibility, but that will show up over time.

The guarantee (warranty) for nixie will only be within the framework of the law of a particular country in the EU, I will not give a guarantee beyond the framework of the law, I cannot afford such a luxury." 

I think that he could be made to come around if he realizes the potential for these giant tubes, especially with the growing market for nixies today. If I manage to make any progress in speaking to him or getting tubes, I'll share that here. 

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[newxito]

Selling electronics seems to be very complex in the EU. Even for small series you apparently need the CE certificate... and many other paperwork. You even have to register and pay for future recycling. And I think is better to have a good insurance because of the “product liability”.
Selling kits seems to be a little bit easier. Anyway, I have decided to never ever sell any self-designed/self-made electronics.

If someone is interested, google for "auf dem Weg zum eigenen Produkt", there is a very informative drawing from the German “Make”, if you click on the icons you get a more detailed explanation ... if you understand German :-)

[Alex]

Not necessarily,  I worked for a design house for many years (until a few months ago) and got embroiled in this many times. CE "Certificates" mean nothing in essence, as you can self certify. So in reality you can do nothing and still sell your product, often even with the CE mark on it if you believe that it is truely compliant. The problem is that you can be called up, by anyone, on its compliance and then it is up to you to demonstrate its compliance (usually by pulling a technical report out from under the desk). You can have fun E-Mailing companies for their CE certificate / technical file on their products and see what gets sent to you - I used to do this regularly with competitors to a design I was working on for a client mainly to see what standard their product was tested to as a guide for myself!

The most common route followed for EU is to get a final pre-production prototype ready and get it EMC tested (Radiated / Conducted emissions and Susceptability). Then, if thats all good and if its a physical product for consumer use (rather than a PCB to go into something else / a kit etc) then also get it Safety Tested (I handled a custom LED lamp design which turned into a nightmare here...). This safety testing can vary a lot based on the EN category (which are fairly broad - lab (EN61010) / industrial / medical (EN60601)  / consumer / Audio Visual / Railway / lighting) it falls into (this also affects the EMC testing as different limits for different types of product). Then you are pretty much good to go, take out some libility insurance and your golden. Expect to pay £2500 for EMC and about the same for safety. Get a friend in a university / academic institution who has access to the standards library to download you the EN standards you want for free (otherwise they can be £100's).

Again, you can skip all this and write your own tech report - if you get called up do the testing then, if it failes on EMC you can just say "whoops" - pull it from sale and re-start selling with it fixed. There is rarely recalls for EMC issues, and it will only be your competitors that haul you up on it usually (unless it is literally broadcasting like a beacon). If it fails on safety you have a bit more of an issue. Most of safety testing is looking at the flamability of the design / materials (they will set fire to the prototype / burn holes in it during testing) and the VDE / UL approval of Critical Components (bits with mains going into them / user interactive bits). It is usually about 70% document exercise / tickboxes and 30% trying to tip it over / burn it / throw it at the ground and see if live parts become visible. They will check PCB gerbers for creepage and clearance distances of tracks too, and measure with thermocouples all possible hot spots (transformer cores / user touch areas) and block off fans to see if it burns up with no air flow. All in all fairly logical stuff but your paying for the boringness of it all / letterhead.

US testing is quite different - different EMC limits (often simpler - you dont test susceptability iirc, as if everything complies with radiated emissions then why would there be a problem with received erronious emissions?) and of course all different safety compliance standards - but the process is much the same - though not "self certified" - you have to get UL or MET approved. A good test house will quiz you on your intended markets and can do all the testing to both limits at once and will charge you for each regions compliant report.

So I Would argue US is for sure just as hard, if not harder than EU as you have to get it tested from the get go... Oh, and you dont need to worry about WEEE unless your selling over a certain quantity or weight, but all you need to do anyway is provide a return address people can ship stuff back to you at the end of its life.

As an aside, bespoke items dont need testing nearly as much / at all - so "Custom made to order" is a good get out for low volume / Etsy kind of things.

Just wait for the kitemark to come back what with brexit...

- Alex

[Mike Harrison]

>US testing is quite different - different EMC limits (often simpler - you
>dont test susceptability iirc, as if everything complies with radiated
>emissions then why would there be a problem with received erronious
>emissions?)

That is a common misconception - susceptibility testing is not about immunity to non-compliant
emitters, it is about immunity to radio transmissions. The levels are orders of magnitudes apart.

[Bill Notfaded]

I think Ian S. was getting some of his first production tubes so he might know more about them.

Bill

[Kevin A.]

That would be nice to get some more info or user reviews of the tubes. I think there is a decent market out there for giant nixies, despite the financial premium associated with big tubes. 

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[Bill Notfaded]

We know who you are and most of us love big neon tubes!

Bill

On Mon, Dec 23, 2019, 10:36 AM Jiří <zednict...@email.cz> wrote:

Hi, I'm back again, I asked to join the group to answer your questions that interest you. In the discussion are new posts on the topic of my production nixie JP47. I hope I will not be described as a fraud again, I am not a fraud.

I wish everyone a Merry Christmas and good health.

J.Plavec

Dne čtvrtek 31. října 2019 2:43:59 UTC+1 Kevin A. napsal(a):

Looks like there is a new player in the Czech Republic making some big tubes, apparently inspired by the CD47:

http://nixieproducer.com/index.php/nixie-tube-jp47rodan-cd47gr-414

 

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[Terry Kennedy]

On Monday, December 23, 2019 at 1:04:17 PM UTC-5, Jiří wrote:

Hi, I'm back again, I asked to join the group to answer your questions that interest you. In the discussion are new posts on the topic of my production nixie JP47. I hope I will not be described as a fraud again, I am not a fraud.

I wish everyone a Merry Christmas and good health.

J.Plavec

 I (and most other people, I would think) welcome anyone who will produce replicas of a tube type no longer being made - so no competing with Dalibor's 568 replicas, for example. I know you're not, I just wanted to make that point for any other possible entrants into the business.

However, there are lots of subtleties to making a tube that both works well and lasts a long time, and that information has been mostly lost / forgotten by the original makers. And it is certainly within the rights of those who have rediscovered them (including you) to share / not share as you desire. Dalibor's tubes have a less than 2.3% (latest figure on his web site) failure rate on over 10,000 tubes made, which is an amazing tribute to his work. It will obviously take some time and experience with your product by adventurous members to see if you can get close to that failure rate. If you can, I think quite a few members will be interested in your tubes.

[Paul Andrews]

> On Dec 23, 2019, at 11:25 PM, Terry Kennedy <terry-...@glaver.org> wrote:
>
> 

> I (and most other people, I would think) welcome anyone who will produce replicas of a tube type no longer being made - so no competing with Dalibor's 568 replicas, for example.

Are you seriously stating that no one should compete with Dalibor’s tubes?

[Jeff Walton]

Anyone that is smart enough, dedicated enough, and brave enough to actually produce useful nixie tubes of any type should go for it!  We all wish you good luck and lots of time and seed funds to make a go of it.  Make 568's or any kind of nixie that you want.  Demand will be the limiting factor in the beginning, but as all types of old nixies will eventually disappear there is opportunity for most any type of nixie tube. 

I personally wouldn't want to waste a lot of time on the 568 tubes only because the benchmark has been set fairly high by Dalibor Farny.  Maybe you have some other idea like to use original pins in glass instead of the pinch seal and base.  That would be nice to offer but for many reasons, we won't hold our breath waiting for something affordable and reliable. 

Huge tubes are a novelty for most clock owners but I would be much more interested in practical sizes.  The really elongated digits in a CD-47 are big and unique but there is probably more demand for something like a well proportioned 1 inch tall digit.  Not sure that the economics currently work for someone making tubes for a hobby. 

Regardless of what someone chooses to make, this group will support a reliable and affordable product.  Sharing the success and failure of the effort makes us more willing to take a chance on whatever nixie someone decides to build and everyone benefits from knowledge. 

Jeff

-------- Original message --------

From: Jiří <zednict...@email.cz>

Date: 12/24/19 2:20 AM (GMT-06:00)

To: neonixie-l <neoni...@googlegroups.com>

Subject: [neonixie-l] Re: New CD47 sized tubes?!

It is nonsense to say that it should not compete with Dalibor's pipes. Competition is necessary and it is necessary to compete with Dalibor's pipes as well as pipes of other manufacturers and my JP47 pipes. Competition is necessary, no one has a monopoly on any product. Washing machines, televisions and other products are also produced by many manufacturers and that is good. I myself like to welcome the competition to my JP47 tube.

Dne úterý 24. prosince 2019 5:25:42 UTC+1 Terry Kennedy napsal(a):

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[Bill Notfaded]

I disagree... Make em big a heck!

Bill

[Terry Kennedy]

On Tuesday, December 24, 2019 at 2:56:50 AM UTC-5, Paul Andrews wrote:

Are you seriously stating that no one should compete with Dalibor’s tubes?

I'm saying that there are a number of types which we would like to see made again, and having a bunch of people making 568's (or CD47's) seems counterproductive. If every type of tube with demand is being made, then certainly it seems reasonable to have some duplication. But by doing something other than 568's, hobbyists get more tube types to chose from and there is no competition for that model of tube. Isn't that better than a race to the bottom price competition on one type of tube?

Personally, I'd be interested in seeing what today's designers could come up with, not necessarily mimicing any particular old tube. For example, I'd like to see something CD47-ish, but with better proportions instead of being insanely tall, and with a much finer anode mesh. But that's just me. 

[John DeArmond]

Hi guys,

Sorry to intrude but I need some help from my friends.  I need a pair of
lungs  overhauled and so have started a Go Fund Me page. Any
contribution would be most appreciated.

https://www.gofundme.com/f/repair-my-lungs-so-that-i-may-live-awhile-longer?utm_source=customer&utm_medium=copy_link&utm_campaign=p_cf+share-flow-1
Thanks everyone, NeonJohn

[Dennis NA]

No intrusion here John. Sorry to hear about this but will jump over and help out. Wishing you well and Merry Christmas.

Dennis

KB7DV

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