That's one expensive clock....

[Nicholas Stock]

https://shop.madgallery.ch/products/nixie-time-zone-clock-v2

Nice execution and I get that custom aluminum is expensive (I know first hand), but >8000 Euro? Really?

[Jeff Walton]

I could buy a PV or ebay clock for each time zone I need, and use the leftover money for a nice vacation. 

Jeff 

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[newxito]

Well, Geneva is an expensive city :-)

[Ian Vine]

It is a nice piece of work, mind you. 

On 17 Jul 2020, at 19:57, newxito <axt...@gmail.com> wrote:



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[Kevin A.]

It's only worth what someone's willing to pay for it. I can only speak for myself but I do think it's exorbitantly overpriced as well. Is it really worth 4 of Dalibor's zen clocks? 

On Fri, Jul 17, 2020, 1:47 PM Nicholas Stock <nick...@gmail.com> wrote:

https://shop.madgallery.ch/products/nixie-time-zone-clock-v2

Nice execution and I get that custom aluminum is expensive (I know first hand), but >8000 Euro? Really?

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[SWISSNIXIE - Jonathan F.]

Its expensive yes, but since they are trying to sell this to the general public, and are genuine company, i guess they will follow conformity laws for switzerland and europe, which leads to atleast 20'000 $ just for all the paperwork and emc/esd/safety lab tests! Also they need to provide warranty too. Sure after all i guess they do this to pay workers, and not just for fun...

If always wanted to sell a nixie kit, but it would kinda be risky when not doing the legal paperwork, in case something happens or you get reported it can be result im huge fines.

[Nicholas Stock]

Understood Jonathan....but 100 of them (if they sell them all....) at 8000 Euro each is a non-trivial amount of money.... :)

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 19, 2020, at 13:50, SWISSNIXIE - Jonathan F. <jfre...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Its expensive yes, but since they are trying to sell this to the general public, and are genuine company, i guess they will follow conformity laws for switzerland and europe, which leads to atleast 20'000 $ just for all the paperwork and emc/esd/safety lab tests! Also they need to provide warranty too. Sure after all i guess they do this to pay workers, and not just for fun...

>
> If always wanted to sell a nixie kit, but it would kinda be risky when not doing the legal paperwork, in case something happens or you get reported it can be result im huge fines.
>

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[Hannah Mishin]

quick question on european fines for selling electronics-> what?! is this similar to FCC compliance in the states? what if you dont sell them in europe (i.e. free) do these restrictions apply to the entire EU?
this more of a curiosity rather than applicable to me.

Sent from my finger computer


> On Jul 19, 2020, at 5:03 PM, Nicholas Stock <nick...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Understood Jonathan....but 100 of them (if they sell them all....) at 8000 Euro each is a non-trivial amount of money.... :)

> To view this discussion on the web, visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/neonixie-l/027B5856-4704-405E-BE49-2417B04E34A1%40gmail.com.

[Kevin A.]

FCC compliance is usually with regards to systems which contain a radio. The broadcast band and output power of the device's radio(s) are the primary factors the FCC will scrutinize. Of course, if your device generates a ton of EMC that could also cause it to fail compliance testing. 

I believe the "conformity laws" referred to here have more to do with general safety testing for consumer electronics. That would be more analogous to UL or CE certifications which are focused around safety considerations like electric shock, flammability, general EMC/EMI. 

Usually (and I use "usually" very loosely) selling kits is a legal workaround since the end user is assuming responsibility by assembling the device properly. Don't quote me on that in court though. If you need to be sure then ask an attorney. 

To view this discussion on the web, visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/neonixie-l/EBC49467-FA42-484E-A332-D43A0F2D03C5%40gmail.com.

[Hannah Mishin]

Thanks Kevin, I appreciate the insight.  I don't sell things, but have friends abroad.

:)

I am also generally curious (for instance learning that in Germany, acquiring a Motorcycle License is prohibitively expensive).

<no judgments on laws or regs, merely curious>

Thanks again!

http://hannahmishin.com/

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[Alex]

I am not sure about Switzerland as it may have its own regulations being as it is not in the EU (and I am sure the UK will soon start to drift on this also) but generally "over here" you need to meet the EN or whatever (BSI?) standard for the device type and mark your device with the CE mark if it is fully compliant. This is self certification but you need to be able to proove compliance if asked for it. Hence it is a very wise idea to give your finished widgit to a test house for EMC (radiated / conducted emissions and also susceptability) and then also give it to a test house for safety testing which covers flammability and "does a live part get exposed if I drop it" type of tests. Dont expect to get a working widget back from that one.

Assume £5k costs for those two together if its a fairly normal thing. Try and use pre-approved modules and design towards compliance and box ticking (which is mostly what the safety testing is) to keep costs down.

Use a cheap SDR based setup with some wands for checking EMI radiated if possible. A reasonable Rigol spectrum analyser EMC setup with LISN for conducted can be had for about £1k now also, useful if your device is risky (e.g. smpsu design / lots of wires / clock frequencies). Also, do things in a sensible order, I had a clients LED lamp design that was perfect function wise and it struggled through 3k of safety testing and then failed EMC so spectacularly the entire design was scrapped.

On Tuesday, 21 July 2020 12:45:26 UTC+1, Hannah Mishin wrote:

Thanks Kevin, I appreciate the insight.  I don't sell things, but have friends abroad.

:)

I am also generally curious (for instance learning that in Germany, acquiring a Motorcycle License is prohibitively expensive).

<no judgments on laws or regs, merely curious>

Thanks again!

http://hannahmishin.com/

On Mon, Jul 20, 2020 at 11:32 PM Kevin A. <ka...@scarletmail.rutgers.edu> wrote:

FCC compliance is usually with regards to systems which contain a radio. The broadcast band and output power of the device's radio(s) are the primary factors the FCC will scrutinize. Of course, if your device generates a ton of EMC that could also cause it to fail compliance testing. 

I believe the "conformity laws" referred to here have more to do with general safety testing for consumer electronics. That would be more analogous to UL or CE certifications which are focused around safety considerations like electric shock, flammability, general EMC/EMI. 

Usually (and I use "usually" very loosely) selling kits is a legal workaround since the end user is assuming responsibility by assembling the device properly. Don't quote me on that in court though. If you need to be sure then ask an attorney. 

On Sun, Jul 19, 2020, 6:18 PM Hannah Mishin <hannah...@gmail.com> wrote:

quick question on european fines for selling electronics-> what?! is this similar to FCC compliance in the states? what if you dont sell them in europe (i.e. free) do these restrictions apply to the entire EU?
this more of a curiosity rather than applicable to me.

Sent from my finger computer


> On Jul 19, 2020, at 5:03 PM, Nicholas Stock <nick...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Understood Jonathan....but 100 of them (if they sell them all....) at 8000 Euro each is a non-trivial amount of money.... :)
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Jul 19, 2020, at 13:50, SWISSNIXIE - Jonathan F. <jfre...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Its expensive yes, but since they are trying to sell this to the general public, and are genuine company, i guess they will follow conformity laws for switzerland and europe, which leads to atleast 20'000 $ just for all the paperwork and emc/esd/safety lab tests! Also they need to provide warranty too. Sure after all i guess they do this to pay workers, and not just for fun...
>>
>> If always wanted to sell a nixie kit, but it would kinda be risky when not doing the legal paperwork, in case something happens or you get reported it can be result im huge fines.
>>
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>
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