Hi Experts,
“Good Morning”
According to my line classes, I required NACE+HIC+PWHT Wet H2 services.
What is the test shall be conducted according to the standard to meet the requirements?
I have one PQR with NACE+PWHT+Wet H2S services, but not HIC test.
In addition, I have qualified one HIC tested PQR without PWHT no other lab test certificates, shall I combined this PQR to the above requirements( NACE+HIC+PWHT+wet H2S).
For your information, the HIC test is an additional requirement of our specifications.
Please looking your feedback on my above query.
Thanks and Regards
Kiran
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Hi,Please specify the material grade and the design code.As you have mentioned Line class, I presume you are talking about piping .RegardsSudhakar K
On Mon, 27 Jul 2020 at 11:33 AM, K K <kara...@gmail.com> wrote:
--Hi Experts,
“Good Morning”
According to my line classes, I required NACE+HIC+PWHT Wet H2 services.
What is the test shall be conducted according to the standard to meet the requirements?
I have one PQR with NACE+PWHT+Wet H2S services, but not HIC test.
In addition, I have qualified one HIC tested PQR without PWHT no other lab test certificates, shall I combined this PQR to the above requirements( NACE+HIC+PWHT+wet H2S).
For your information, the HIC test is an additional requirement of our specifications.
Please looking your feedback on my above query.
Thanks and Regards
Kiran
https://materials-welding.blogspot.com/
https://www.linkedin.com/groups/122787
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Hello KK,
HIC testing usually does not apply or procedure qualification according to Sec-IX or even as per oil and gas industry standards, say NACE MR 103 , API(RP-582). Common industry document for HIC testing is NACE TM -0284, which calls for HIC testing on parent metals, plates/ pipes etc.
How does this idea of HIC testing originate? Is it possible for you to share any specific or relevant document?
Thanks.
P.Goswami.P.Eng, IWE.
Independent & Consulting Welding & Metallurgical Specialist
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Kiran,
As I said before, HIC Testing is not MANDATED by ASME Sec-IX or any API, NACE specification. Does the project specification call for HIC testing during PQR qualification stage? HIC testing is typically mandated for raw materials , e.g. plates, pipe, line pipes etc. Look at NACE TM-0284 . What’s the component pressure vessel or line pipe?
If your organization has done HIC testing on PQR coupons, you may use this result as a supplementary information over and above the PQR qualified with PWHT. Combination of PQR is allowed in ASME Sec-IX
Hope it clarifies you doubt. Also please scan and share your project requirements?
Thanks.
P.Goswami.P.Eng, IWE.
Independent & Consulting Welding & Metallurgical Specialist
Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/pradip-goswami-2999855/
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From: material...@googlegroups.com <material...@googlegroups.com> On Behalf Of Kiran Ekbote
Sent: July 29, 2020 1:53 AM
To: material...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [MW:31231] Combination of PQRs
Dear Sir,
Thanks for your response.
Sorry I am not able to understand your answer.
You mean that PQR can be separately included, there will be no issues right.
I will explain to you in detail.
I have one WPS and with two PQR's.
one PQR with PWHT and second PQR we prepared an additional test coupon for the HIC test only.
And HIC PQR has tested accordingly NACE MR 103 , API(RP-582), and NACE TM -0284, but in PQR we have not conducted mechanical, PWHT, and other tests.
If we have two PQR , so according to ASME Sec.IX we have to combine both PQR in WPS, with all essential variables.
Please give me your response immediately, because my document is under hold.
Thanks
Kiran
On Wed, Jul 29, 2020 at 9:20 AM <pgos...@rogers.com> wrote:
Hello KK,
HIC testing usually does not apply for procedure qualification according to Sec-IX or even as per oil and gas industry standards, say NACE MR 103 , API(RP-582). Common industry document for HIC testing is NACE TM -0284, which calls for HIC testing on parent metals, plates/ pipes etc.
Virus-free. www.avg.com
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KIRAN
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Dear Prasad,
It seems to me that your proposal is not valid because the INCOLOY 825 alloy belongs to the family of nickel base alloys with filler metal within SFA 5.14. (for example ERNiFeCr-1).
904 L is a high alloy austenitic stainless steel and must be welded with filler metal of the same composition within SFA 5.9 (ER385) and also to weld the SS 317 / 904L combination.
You should prepare WPS with PQR for this 904L alloy.
Regards,
Ramon Briceno / Metallurgical Engineer -Oil & Gas
www.linkedin.com/in/ramon-briceño-976265b5
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From: prasad loke
Sent: Saturday, August 1, 2020 7:20 AM
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Thank you for your e-mail, unfortunately I’m out of office till Monday August 10th . In the meantime I will have minimum access to my e-mail account. When you didn’t receive an response before this date I will answer your e-mail on Monday August 10th.
Best Regards,
Herman Pieper
Hello Prasad,
As per ASME Sec-IX you may use the qualified WPS on alloy 825 for welding alloy 904L. Both of these alloys are classified as P No 45. However if the welding requirements are strictly as per Sec-IX , then this welding would be allowed, provided the welding consumables/filler metals for welding alloy 825 and 904L are the same(unchanged).
For welding 904L to 317SS with ER 385 a new PQR should be qualified.
· A snapshot of 904L(UNS 08904) , as per Sec-IX,
· A snapshot of 825 (N08825) , as per Sec-IX,
Although the chemistry is widely different, both alloys are used for extremely corrosion resistant/demanding applications. Hence choosing welding electrodes/fillers, matching the base metal chemistry would ususally be advisable. The A No & F No of both ERNiFeCr-1 & ER-385 are doffernt. This is an essential variable as per Sec-IX. Hence requalification would be required if the welding consumable/filler is changed.
An extracts of the composition of both type of filer metals are as attached. As you may see ERNiFeCr-1 is richer with respect to the alloying elments, as compared to ER 385. Hence using this filer for welding 904L should not be a problem with respect to chemistry and mechanical properties. However one has to know the service environment/corrosivity for the correct filler/elelctrode selection.
What is the service environment, phosphoric acid or something else?
One advise please do not mix the queries, the original query posted was on different topic. Please take a little more effort to create a new topic and post your query.
Thanks.
P.Goswami.P.Eng, IWE.
Independent & Consulting Welding & Metallurgical Specialist
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From: 'Zeghanu Gigi' via Materials & Welding <material...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: August 2, 2020 3:15 AM
To: material...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [MW:31254] Combination of PQRs
Good morning,
Dear Ramon as Metallurgical Engineer ,are you so kind to give us your opinion related the microstructure, mechanical properties affected if austenitic SS 904 is welded with ER NiCr,ER NiFeCr(SFA-5.14 filler metal)?
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Hello Pgoswami,
I'm not sure, but that WPS qualified for the Inco 825 alloy, what type of filler metal does it have? If it is filler metal type ERNiFeCr-1, this filler joined to the 904L alloy has a very strong propensity to form a high amount of austenite phase, and in the total absence of delta ferrite, suitable to avoid hot cracking of the welding, particularly in this 904L austenitic steel.
For this reason, filler metal ER385 was created to perfectly weld 904L alloy.
I think, persuade ER385 to be used with 904L. They are like brothers.
Regards,
Ramon Briceno / Metallurgical Engineer- Oil & Gas
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Hi All,
If 904L is welded with ERNiFeCr-1 electrodes/filler, it MAY or MAY NOT crack. The cracking issue is complex and are driven by factors such as : thickness of the joint, degrees of restraint, joint preparation open V of narrow U shape. All these needs to be taken into considerations. Inconel electrodes are used in plenty for welding any dissimilar welds between fully austenitic stainless steels to many low alloy steels. Look at the issue of any Buttering: on Low alloy steel then welding on to stainless steel. As long as alloying elements such as: C, S, P & Ti are controlled in any Inconel type electrodes, cracking is NO Issue.
Note : 904L base metals are recommended to be welded with E/ERNiCrMo-3 type electrode/fillers( typically for offshore high chloride environments). ERNiCrMo-3 also generates fully austenitic welds.
However bad/ wrong electrode selection results in doomsday for any good weld. On that logic the most matching electrode/filler for 904L stainless would be E/ER 385(descriptions as attached). The real problems of welding 904L with ERNiFeCr-1as explained below:-
Chemistry:ERNiFeCr-1:-
Chemistry:Matching 904L Filler, AWS ER-385 :
904L Base Metal:
What ERNiFeCr-1 falls short is “Mo”. So if exposed reducing acids like HCl or any chloride bearing environments welds may start pitting prematurely.
Thanks.
P.Goswami.P.Eng, IWE.
Independent & Consulting Welding & Metallurgical Specialist
Aramco Approved Designated Project Welding Engineer(DPWR)
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Dear Gigi,
Excellent, the best selection. Good luck with this welding.
I like to research solutions for welding and its alloys.
Regards,
Ramon.
From: 'Zeghanu Gigi' via Materials & Welding
Sent: Monday, August 3, 2020 12:04 PM
To: material...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [MW:31268] Combination of PQRs
Dear Ramon,
Thanks for interesting explanation of Austenitic Stainless Steel hot cracking.
Arcelor Mital propose SFA 5,14-ER NiCrMo-3 as well.See attachment.
Regards
Gigi
Good morning Gigi,
Well, I will try to be explicit as much as possible.
Welding a type 904L steel (high-alloy austenitic stainless steel) with filler type ERNiFeCr-1, has the following consequences:
-Both materials solidify in the austenite phase, with exponential increase in hot thermal expansion, which makes the weld susceptible to hot cracking in the HAZ.
-An indicator of this behavior, we can see it in a Schaeffler diagram, where if the filler metal ERNiFeCr-1 is used, the nickel equivalent (austenite phase former) rises considerably. There is no delta ferrite, a phase that helps prevent the weld from cracking during solidification.
- On the other hand, if ERNiFeCr-1 is used for the 904L, the Mo content in the weld is weakened and with it, reduces the resistance to pitting in chloride environments and the risk of cracking in sulfuric acid environments.
For this reason, whenever possible, we must use filler materials that are most compatible with the base metal, both in chemical composition and in the formation of the most similar solidification structures.
To solve this 904L welding problem, filler material ER385 was created. They remain as brothers at the end of everything.
I hope my comments serve you,
Regards,
Ramon Briceno / Metallurgical Engineer - Oil & Gas
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