Cold storage or dead?
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sliptonic
Nov 25, 2020, 2:46:14 PM11/25/20
to Machinekit
I'm speaking out of frustration, disappointment, and a touch of anger. You've been warned.
I had such high hopes for this project. I've been using linuxcnc/machinekit for 13 years. Like most people, I have a love-hate relationship with it. So much promise and so much frustration all together. When the fork happened, I was one who was cheering. Forks used to be a bad thing but git changed that. Forks mean new ideas can be tested without disturbing the mainline. "Finally", I thought, "New approaches and solutions. Hope".
Ha! What a joke. This project has been a let down.
The technical side has been great. Really some amazing ideas and progress.
The individual people are some of the nicest around. Helpful, hopeful, and smart.
But the project? Absolute disaster. Every attempt at helpful feedback has been met with words and no action. The C4 concept might work in other projects but has produced no fruit here at all. Worse, it's prevented normal participation by increasing the friction.
Documentation is almost non-existent. Where it exists, it's often contradictory or just wrong. There are no reference projects and hardly any videos. The newsgroup is almost silent and the gitter channel/matrix room are ghost towns where nobody answers.
The project started with a high value for using git (remember that fork thing?). Today neither the machinekit-hal or machinekit-cnc repos have any branches or tags besides master. Seriously, HOW THE HELL do I find the last known working code!?
It looks like someone started a major development effort, broke things, and then walked away and I can't find any discussion about that initiative. Why is it so hard to understand what the hell is going on?
Look, if the project is dead, say that. Lead it out to the pasture and put a bullet in its head and let's get back to making LinuxCNC better.
If core contributors don't have time right now to continue working, can we please take the time to mothball the thing properly?
But if somebody thinks there's still value here (and I seriously hope you do) then for the love of God can we please do this right? Can we document what works, consolidate our communication, and lower the barriers to contribution?
Does anyone still care?
Ok, I feel better now.
ce...@tuta.io
Nov 30, 2020, 1:54:09 PM11/30/20
to Machinekit
The was discussion about this problem in the Machinekit chat room. The truth is that the community support in Machinekit is and was not good (being tactful) and with changes in development it only got worse.
The documentation is bad and obsolete, the site itself is pretty chaotic and finding information is almost Sisyphean task. Everybody recognises this.
The changes happening in development on Github were not manually propagated here to Google groups. Moreover, the links at top are again long obsolete in its step-by-step tutorial value (but the overall explanation and goals are still more or less valid). This is a lot more murky than to say "The site needs replacement" - because Machinekit always recognised the need for the user to be proactive and keep a finger on the pulse of development (and encouraged to do some development themselves). No version of Machinekit (meaning Machinekit organization's project here and in whole text) is production ready in the sense of guaranteeing stable version and high level of support. With the understanding that if somebody wants to or need to, he should produce his own stable branch (with implementing upstream changes as he sees fit). That was the status quo for companies using Machinekit in their commercial offerings.
However, the community forum is good for something like user issue sharing, basic supporting questions and proud presentations of own use of Machinekit. Just people should not forget that there is also the Github issue tracker specific to each project used for developer talk (which does not mean that only developers or contributors can comment on presented issues).
This out of the way, let's talk about how to reinvigorate the Machinekit community (because otherwise all this is useless). The website with repository README page are first point of contacts with new users. Usually what I need to know about new OSS is WHAT is it, WHY does it exist, HOW can I use it and WHEN should I use it.
Current status of Machinekit site did not change much from the time Machinekit was forked. It is Jekyll based site with own theme build from Machinekit-docs repository with use of Github Actions service and deployed to Machinekit.github.io repository as Github Pages. I think this is a nice setup. (Not the Jekyll part, I don't care if Hugo, Gridsome, Docusaurus or whatever else is used, but the fact that it is basically static site which can be hosted pretty much anywhere and quickly replicated in case of problem by anybody.) The build is based on a very precarious Docker image (which is based on Debian Jessie and cannot be rebuilt anymore). And some parts are broken and no longer building. In other word, bad.
So, the path with the least resistance as far as I can see it is to choose some simple theme with documentation support, change colours to ochre and teal, put logo at top and write some basic documentation answering the above presented question. While letting the current site live somewhere online for users interested in archaeology to study. Problem is, it is still going to require many man-hours to accomplish, but it is needed for survival.
The other point is this forum. To tell the truth, I hate mail lists. But many people love them. Removing the obsolete links is connected to the website. But maybe the community would be better server with modern interface with common functions known from other places like mentions, responsive design for reading on mobile devices (not nice with current setup), SSO. Tools like Discourse, nodeBB or Flarum are able to somewhat function over emails with Discourse being the most advanced in this regard.
So the importation of messages from this group would be possible and hosting it on 1 GB small server should be enough for the size of this community. The questing stays if it was a positive move for the community and not just task for the task itself.
Comments welcome.
Cern. (alias @cerna on Github)
The documentation is bad and obsolete, the site itself is pretty chaotic and finding information is almost Sisyphean task. Everybody recognises this.
The changes happening in development on Github were not manually propagated here to Google groups. Moreover, the links at top are again long obsolete in its step-by-step tutorial value (but the overall explanation and goals are still more or less valid). This is a lot more murky than to say "The site needs replacement" - because Machinekit always recognised the need for the user to be proactive and keep a finger on the pulse of development (and encouraged to do some development themselves). No version of Machinekit (meaning Machinekit organization's project here and in whole text) is production ready in the sense of guaranteeing stable version and high level of support. With the understanding that if somebody wants to or need to, he should produce his own stable branch (with implementing upstream changes as he sees fit). That was the status quo for companies using Machinekit in their commercial offerings.
However, the community forum is good for something like user issue sharing, basic supporting questions and proud presentations of own use of Machinekit. Just people should not forget that there is also the Github issue tracker specific to each project used for developer talk (which does not mean that only developers or contributors can comment on presented issues).
This out of the way, let's talk about how to reinvigorate the Machinekit community (because otherwise all this is useless). The website with repository README page are first point of contacts with new users. Usually what I need to know about new OSS is WHAT is it, WHY does it exist, HOW can I use it and WHEN should I use it.
Current status of Machinekit site did not change much from the time Machinekit was forked. It is Jekyll based site with own theme build from Machinekit-docs repository with use of Github Actions service and deployed to Machinekit.github.io repository as Github Pages. I think this is a nice setup. (Not the Jekyll part, I don't care if Hugo, Gridsome, Docusaurus or whatever else is used, but the fact that it is basically static site which can be hosted pretty much anywhere and quickly replicated in case of problem by anybody.) The build is based on a very precarious Docker image (which is based on Debian Jessie and cannot be rebuilt anymore). And some parts are broken and no longer building. In other word, bad.
So, the path with the least resistance as far as I can see it is to choose some simple theme with documentation support, change colours to ochre and teal, put logo at top and write some basic documentation answering the above presented question. While letting the current site live somewhere online for users interested in archaeology to study. Problem is, it is still going to require many man-hours to accomplish, but it is needed for survival.
The other point is this forum. To tell the truth, I hate mail lists. But many people love them. Removing the obsolete links is connected to the website. But maybe the community would be better server with modern interface with common functions known from other places like mentions, responsive design for reading on mobile devices (not nice with current setup), SSO. Tools like Discourse, nodeBB or Flarum are able to somewhat function over emails with Discourse being the most advanced in this regard.
So the importation of messages from this group would be possible and hosting it on 1 GB small server should be enough for the size of this community. The questing stays if it was a positive move for the community and not just task for the task itself.
Comments welcome.
Cern. (alias @cerna on Github)
Dne středa 25. listopadu 2020 v 20:46:14 UTC+1 uživatel sliptonic napsal:
Mala Dies
Dec 7, 2020, 1:04:30 AM12/7/20
to Machinekit
Hello,
I say start small w/ the site. Add a few hyperlinks to start. Make something official geared towards people like me who are newcomers and willing to spend time dedicated to application. I am a starter in this field but I am getting older and older.
...
Small site and a full representation of a working order would be nice for people staring blindly at the famous pages that seem to multiply quickly when viewing.
I posted a small section from github in the form of a hyperlink. It basically just goes to an incomplete but dedicated piece of text on github that supports machinekit ideas w/ gcode, .ini files, and basics on ideas for setting up commands.
I think this is a good starter for people. I am sure that most of you are very educated in this dept. and do not need to bother w/ newcomers and nonsensical questions. I understand. I have been behind the helm asking silly questions for five years in the BBB.io world. The books were nice at first, the starter scripts were nice too, and in the end, it seems that people stopped their futuristic approach to the entire community of newcomers, their ideas, and bringing old to new.
There is no pressure from me. I can learn from the machinekit.io site like I have been doing. But after a bit of spending time on the site, it is an actually large database. It is easy to use and dedicated to instruction. This is nice.
I say keep it or are you guys going to rearrange things a bit? I ask b/c some of the ideas are not BBB.io related. I am not affiliated w/ the beagleboard.org people but I enjoy using their boards for learning Linux based initiatives.
I just like motor work, the use of motors, and to mfg. new machines when I can to promote the ideas behind it all. Finding open minds is not easy. People would rather pay for a Arduino w/ a cheap daughter card so that they can put GRBL or Marlin on it. Machinekit is not the same and is highly configurable. This is what I think is nice about the entire set up you guys have in the CNC world.
But, like my old posts in the field, I say a Cape for the BBB or BBAI would be neat.
Well, it is late and I have not tested much recently. I just got trying to handle interrupts on some Python3 source via the Motor Bridge Cape, the BBGG, and some other source. Testing will ensue!
Seth
P.S. Nothing is final. Things evolve, people take specific routes, and stuff stays the same. MachineKit!
ce...@tuta.io
Dec 8, 2020, 2:47:43 PM12/8/20
to Mala Dies, Machinekit
Thank you for the input!
Dec 7, 2020, 07:04 by fun...@gmail.com:
> Hello,
>
> I say start small w/ the site. Add a few hyperlinks to start. Make something official geared towards people like me who are newcomers and willing to spend time dedicated to application. I am a starter in this field but I am getting older and older.
>
Yes, small is something which I had in mind. I don't think there is enough power or willingness to do full in-depth rewrite.
>
> ...
>
> Small site and a full representation of a working order would be nice for people staring blindly at the famous pages that seem to multiply quickly when viewing.
>
> I posted a small section from github in the form of a hyperlink. It basically just goes to an incomplete but dedicated piece of text on github that supports machinekit ideas w/ gcode, .ini files, and basics on ideas for setting up commands.
>
> I think this is a good starter for people. I am sure that most of you are very educated in this dept. and do not need to bother w/ newcomers and nonsensical questions. I understand. I have been behind the helm asking silly questions for five years in the BBB.io world. The books were nice at first, the starter scripts were nice too, and in the end, it seems that people stopped their futuristic approach to the entire community of newcomers, their ideas, and bringing old to new.
>
> There is no pressure from me. I can learn from the machinekit.io site like I have been doing. But after a bit of spending time on the site, it is an actually large database. It is easy to use and dedicated to instruction. This is nice.
>
Most people who I talked about the site said to me that it is chaotic, the tree structure doesn't make sense and finding anything even with a search engine is Herculean task. It is interesting that you find the site fine and definitely something which needs to be taken into consideration.
>
> I say keep it or are you guys going to rearrange things a bit? I ask b/c some of the ideas are not BBB.io related. I am not affiliated w/ the beagleboard.org people but I enjoy using their boards for learning Linux based initiatives.
>
I would say the biggest problem is the fact that the site still presumes (and gives the impression) that Machinekit is monorepo. It does not differentiate between Machinekit-HAL, MKSoCFPGA, EMCApplication, HAL_ROS_control (when I include the Zultron's project) and other parts.
And I hope many ideas are not BBB related. I would hate if people thought that Machinekit is BeagleBone only endeavour.
>
> I just like motor work, the use of motors, and to mfg. new machines when I can to promote the ideas behind it all. Finding open minds is not easy. People would rather pay for a Arduino w/ a cheap daughter card so that they can put GRBL or Marlin on it. Machinekit is not the same and is highly configurable. This is what I think is nice about the entire set up you guys have in the CNC world.
>
Well, to be fair, there is a tonnage of interesting ideas in the Arduino world. If it all can be somehow interconnected or reused, the better. In terms of better documentation, getting up some page comparing Arduino products to Machinekit et al. is source of tension than a helpful tool in the long run.
Cern.
>
> But, like my old posts in the field, I say a Cape for the BBB or BBAI would be neat.
>
> Well, it is late and I have not tested much recently. I just got trying to handle interrupts on some Python3 source via the Motor Bridge Cape, the BBGG, and some other source. Testing will ensue!
>
> Seth
>
> P.S. Nothing is final. Things evolve, people take specific routes, and stuff stays the same. MachineKit!
> On Monday, November 30, 2020 at 12:54:09 PM UTC-6 ce...@tuta.io wrote:
>
>> The was discussion about this problem in the Machinekit chat room. The truth is that the community support in Machinekit is and was not good (being tactful) and with changes in development it only got worse.
>>
>> The documentation is bad and obsolete, the site itself is pretty chaotic and finding information is almost Sisyphean task. Everybody recognises this.
>>
>> The changes happening in development on Github were not manually propagated here to Google groups. Moreover, the links at top are again long obsolete in its step-by-step tutorial value (but the overall explanation and goals are still more or less valid). This is a lot more murky than to say "The site needs replacement" - because Machinekit always recognised the need for the user to be proactive and keep a finger on the pulse of development (and encouraged to do some development themselves). No version of Machinekit (meaning Machinekit organization's project here and in whole text) is production ready in the sense of guaranteeing stable version and high level of support. With the understanding that if somebody wants to or need to, he should produce his own stable branch (with implementing upstream changes as he sees fit). That was the status quo for companies using Machinekit in their commercial offerings.
>>
>> However, the community forum is good for something like user issue sharing, basic supporting questions and proud presentations of own use of Machinekit. Just people should not forget that there is also the Github issue tracker specific to each project used for developer talk (which does not mean that only developers or contributors can comment on presented issues).
>>
>> This out of the way, let's talk about how to reinvigorate the Machinekit community (because otherwise all this is useless). The website with repository README page are first point of contacts with new users. Usually what I need to know about new OSS is WHAT is it, WHY does it exist, HOW can I use it and WHEN should I use it.
>>
>> Current status of Machinekit site did not change much from the time Machinekit was forked. It is Jekyll based site with own theme build from Machinekit-docs repository with use of Github Actions service and deployed to >> Machinekit.github.io <http://Machinekit.github.io>>> repository as Github Pages. I think this is a nice setup. (Not the Jekyll part, I don't care if Hugo, Gridsome, Docusaurus or whatever else is used, but the fact that it is basically static site which can be hosted pretty much anywhere and quickly replicated in case of problem by anybody.) The build is based on a very precarious Docker image (which is based on Debian Jessie and cannot be rebuilt anymore). And some parts are broken and no longer building. In other word, bad.
> website: > http://www.machinekit.io> blog: > http://blog.machinekit.io> github: > https://github.com/machinekit
> ---
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Machinekit" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to > machinekit+...@googlegroups.com> .
> To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/machinekit/43c1c689-668b-475b-af1e-c2a7bdb8331dn%40googlegroups.com <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/machinekit/43c1c689-668b-475b-af1e-c2a7bdb8331dn%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>> .
>
Dec 7, 2020, 07:04 by fun...@gmail.com:
> Hello,
>
> I say start small w/ the site. Add a few hyperlinks to start. Make something official geared towards people like me who are newcomers and willing to spend time dedicated to application. I am a starter in this field but I am getting older and older.
>
>
> ...
>
> Small site and a full representation of a working order would be nice for people staring blindly at the famous pages that seem to multiply quickly when viewing.
>
> I posted a small section from github in the form of a hyperlink. It basically just goes to an incomplete but dedicated piece of text on github that supports machinekit ideas w/ gcode, .ini files, and basics on ideas for setting up commands.
>
> I think this is a good starter for people. I am sure that most of you are very educated in this dept. and do not need to bother w/ newcomers and nonsensical questions. I understand. I have been behind the helm asking silly questions for five years in the BBB.io world. The books were nice at first, the starter scripts were nice too, and in the end, it seems that people stopped their futuristic approach to the entire community of newcomers, their ideas, and bringing old to new.
>
> There is no pressure from me. I can learn from the machinekit.io site like I have been doing. But after a bit of spending time on the site, it is an actually large database. It is easy to use and dedicated to instruction. This is nice.
>
>
> I say keep it or are you guys going to rearrange things a bit? I ask b/c some of the ideas are not BBB.io related. I am not affiliated w/ the beagleboard.org people but I enjoy using their boards for learning Linux based initiatives.
>
And I hope many ideas are not BBB related. I would hate if people thought that Machinekit is BeagleBone only endeavour.
>
> I just like motor work, the use of motors, and to mfg. new machines when I can to promote the ideas behind it all. Finding open minds is not easy. People would rather pay for a Arduino w/ a cheap daughter card so that they can put GRBL or Marlin on it. Machinekit is not the same and is highly configurable. This is what I think is nice about the entire set up you guys have in the CNC world.
>
Cern.
>
> But, like my old posts in the field, I say a Cape for the BBB or BBAI would be neat.
>
> Well, it is late and I have not tested much recently. I just got trying to handle interrupts on some Python3 source via the Motor Bridge Cape, the BBGG, and some other source. Testing will ensue!
>
> Seth
>
> P.S. Nothing is final. Things evolve, people take specific routes, and stuff stays the same. MachineKit!
> On Monday, November 30, 2020 at 12:54:09 PM UTC-6 ce...@tuta.io wrote:
>
>> The was discussion about this problem in the Machinekit chat room. The truth is that the community support in Machinekit is and was not good (being tactful) and with changes in development it only got worse.
>>
>> The documentation is bad and obsolete, the site itself is pretty chaotic and finding information is almost Sisyphean task. Everybody recognises this.
>>
>> The changes happening in development on Github were not manually propagated here to Google groups. Moreover, the links at top are again long obsolete in its step-by-step tutorial value (but the overall explanation and goals are still more or less valid). This is a lot more murky than to say "The site needs replacement" - because Machinekit always recognised the need for the user to be proactive and keep a finger on the pulse of development (and encouraged to do some development themselves). No version of Machinekit (meaning Machinekit organization's project here and in whole text) is production ready in the sense of guaranteeing stable version and high level of support. With the understanding that if somebody wants to or need to, he should produce his own stable branch (with implementing upstream changes as he sees fit). That was the status quo for companies using Machinekit in their commercial offerings.
>>
>> However, the community forum is good for something like user issue sharing, basic supporting questions and proud presentations of own use of Machinekit. Just people should not forget that there is also the Github issue tracker specific to each project used for developer talk (which does not mean that only developers or contributors can comment on presented issues).
>>
>> This out of the way, let's talk about how to reinvigorate the Machinekit community (because otherwise all this is useless). The website with repository README page are first point of contacts with new users. Usually what I need to know about new OSS is WHAT is it, WHY does it exist, HOW can I use it and WHEN should I use it.
>>
>>
>> So, the path with the least resistance as far as I can see it is to choose some simple theme with documentation support, change colours to ochre and teal, put logo at top and write some basic documentation answering the above presented question. While letting the current site live somewhere online for users interested in archaeology to study. Problem is, it is still going to require many man-hours to accomplish, but it is needed for survival.
>>
>> The other point is this forum. To tell the truth, I hate mail lists. But many people love them. Removing the obsolete links is connected to the website. But maybe the community would be better server with modern interface with common functions known from other places like mentions, responsive design for reading on mobile devices (not nice with current setup), SSO. Tools like Discourse, nodeBB or Flarum are able to somewhat function over emails with Discourse being the most advanced in this regard.
>>
>> So the importation of messages from this group would be possible and hosting it on 1 GB small server should be enough for the size of this community. The questing stays if it was a positive move for the community and not just task for the task itself.
>>
>> Comments welcome.
>>
>> Cern. (alias @cerna on Github)
>>
>> Dne středa 25. listopadu 2020 v 20:46:14 UTC+1 uživatel sliptonic napsal:
>>
>>> I'm speaking out of frustration, disappointment, and a touch of anger. You've been warned.
>>>
>>> I had such high hopes for this project. I've been using linuxcnc/machinekit for 13 years. Like most people, I have a love-hate relationship with it. So much promise and so much frustration all together. When the fork happened, I was one who was cheering. Forks used to be a bad thing but git changed that. Forks mean new ideas can be tested without disturbing the mainline. "Finally", I thought, "New approaches and solutions. Hope".
>>>
>>> Ha! What a joke. This project has been a let down.
>>>
>>> The technical side has been great. Really some amazing ideas and progress.
>>> The individual people are some of the nicest around. Helpful, hopeful, and smart.
>>>
>>> But the project? Absolute disaster. Every attempt at helpful feedback has been met with words and no action. The C4 concept might work in other projects but has produced no fruit here at all. Worse, it's prevented normal participation by increasing the friction.
>>>
>>> Documentation is almost non-existent. Where it exists, it's often contradictory or just wrong. There are no reference projects and hardly any videos. The newsgroup is almost silent and the gitter channel/matrix room are ghost towns where nobody answers.
>>>
>>> The project started with a high value for using git (remember that fork thing?). Today neither the machinekit-hal or machinekit-cnc repos have any branches or tags besides master. Seriously, HOW THE HELL do I find the last known working code!?
>>>
>>> It looks like someone started a major development effort, broke things, and then walked away and I can't find any discussion about that initiative. Why is it so hard to understand what the hell is going on?
>>>
>>> Look, if the project is dead, say that. Lead it out to the pasture and put a bullet in its head and let's get back to making LinuxCNC better.
>>>
>>> If core contributors don't have time right now to continue working, can we please take the time to mothball the thing properly?
>>>
>>> But if somebody thinks there's still value here (and I seriously hope you do) then for the love of God can we please do this right? Can we document what works, consolidate our communication, and lower the barriers to contribution?
>>>
>>> Does anyone still care?
>>>
>>> Ok, I feel better now.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>
>
>
> --
>> So, the path with the least resistance as far as I can see it is to choose some simple theme with documentation support, change colours to ochre and teal, put logo at top and write some basic documentation answering the above presented question. While letting the current site live somewhere online for users interested in archaeology to study. Problem is, it is still going to require many man-hours to accomplish, but it is needed for survival.
>>
>> The other point is this forum. To tell the truth, I hate mail lists. But many people love them. Removing the obsolete links is connected to the website. But maybe the community would be better server with modern interface with common functions known from other places like mentions, responsive design for reading on mobile devices (not nice with current setup), SSO. Tools like Discourse, nodeBB or Flarum are able to somewhat function over emails with Discourse being the most advanced in this regard.
>>
>> So the importation of messages from this group would be possible and hosting it on 1 GB small server should be enough for the size of this community. The questing stays if it was a positive move for the community and not just task for the task itself.
>>
>> Comments welcome.
>>
>> Cern. (alias @cerna on Github)
>>
>> Dne středa 25. listopadu 2020 v 20:46:14 UTC+1 uživatel sliptonic napsal:
>>
>>> I'm speaking out of frustration, disappointment, and a touch of anger. You've been warned.
>>>
>>> I had such high hopes for this project. I've been using linuxcnc/machinekit for 13 years. Like most people, I have a love-hate relationship with it. So much promise and so much frustration all together. When the fork happened, I was one who was cheering. Forks used to be a bad thing but git changed that. Forks mean new ideas can be tested without disturbing the mainline. "Finally", I thought, "New approaches and solutions. Hope".
>>>
>>> Ha! What a joke. This project has been a let down.
>>>
>>> The technical side has been great. Really some amazing ideas and progress.
>>> The individual people are some of the nicest around. Helpful, hopeful, and smart.
>>>
>>> But the project? Absolute disaster. Every attempt at helpful feedback has been met with words and no action. The C4 concept might work in other projects but has produced no fruit here at all. Worse, it's prevented normal participation by increasing the friction.
>>>
>>> Documentation is almost non-existent. Where it exists, it's often contradictory or just wrong. There are no reference projects and hardly any videos. The newsgroup is almost silent and the gitter channel/matrix room are ghost towns where nobody answers.
>>>
>>> The project started with a high value for using git (remember that fork thing?). Today neither the machinekit-hal or machinekit-cnc repos have any branches or tags besides master. Seriously, HOW THE HELL do I find the last known working code!?
>>>
>>> It looks like someone started a major development effort, broke things, and then walked away and I can't find any discussion about that initiative. Why is it so hard to understand what the hell is going on?
>>>
>>> Look, if the project is dead, say that. Lead it out to the pasture and put a bullet in its head and let's get back to making LinuxCNC better.
>>>
>>> If core contributors don't have time right now to continue working, can we please take the time to mothball the thing properly?
>>>
>>> But if somebody thinks there's still value here (and I seriously hope you do) then for the love of God can we please do this right? Can we document what works, consolidate our communication, and lower the barriers to contribution?
>>>
>>> Does anyone still care?
>>>
>>> Ok, I feel better now.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>
>
>
> website: > http://www.machinekit.io> blog: > http://blog.machinekit.io> github: > https://github.com/machinekit
> ---
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Machinekit" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to > machinekit+...@googlegroups.com> .
> To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/machinekit/43c1c689-668b-475b-af1e-c2a7bdb8331dn%40googlegroups.com <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/machinekit/43c1c689-668b-475b-af1e-c2a7bdb8331dn%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>> .
>
Mala Dies
Dec 9, 2020, 1:12:47 AM12/9/20
to Machinekit
Hello,
If you guys have patience, I would be willing to write up ideas revolving around MachineKit. It would be a side project but a much needed one for me. To tell you the truth, I learn a lot of things constantly. I am always picking up new books, reading articles, and practicing Linux based initiatives. I use motors for fun for now but I have been learning more about C/C++ and Python as time persists.
...
I said the site was fine and I think it is...it is in a list format. Far from a tree structure but the site is needed if people are to want to adjust to the way machinekit is set up.
Seth
ce...@tuta.io
Dec 11, 2020, 9:07:17 PM12/11/20
to Mala Dies, Machinekit
Hi,
of course, this is a voluntary project, you can take as much time as you need. I heard that people who just learned something are the best teachers. I don't know if I agree completely, but for sure it is a good way how to sort out newly acquired knowledge even better!
I was thinking of creating few hands-on tutorial for specific problems with use of Codelabs: https://github.com/googlecodelabs/tools (It looks quite easy, has OK-ish template and the flow looks very similar to instructables.)
Cern.
Dec 9, 2020, 07:12 by fun...@gmail.com:
> Hello,
>
> If you guys have patience, I would be willing to write up ideas revolving around MachineKit. It would be a side project but a much needed one for me. To tell you the truth, I learn a lot of things constantly. I am always picking up new books, reading articles, and practicing Linux based initiatives. I use motors for fun for now but I have been learning more about C/C++ and Python as time persists.
>
> ...
>
> I said the site was fine and I think it is...it is in a list format. Far from a tree structure but the site is needed if people are to want to adjust to the way machinekit is set up.
>
> Seth
> On Tuesday, December 8, 2020 at 1:47:43 PM UTC-6 ce...@tuta.io wrote:
>
> To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/machinekit/02bf6cb7-ffb2-4dbb-87e9-5e60a91fed67n%40googlegroups.com <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/machinekit/02bf6cb7-ffb2-4dbb-87e9-5e60a91fed67n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>> .
>
of course, this is a voluntary project, you can take as much time as you need. I heard that people who just learned something are the best teachers. I don't know if I agree completely, but for sure it is a good way how to sort out newly acquired knowledge even better!
I was thinking of creating few hands-on tutorial for specific problems with use of Codelabs: https://github.com/googlecodelabs/tools (It looks quite easy, has OK-ish template and the flow looks very similar to instructables.)
Cern.
Dec 9, 2020, 07:12 by fun...@gmail.com:
> Hello,
>
> If you guys have patience, I would be willing to write up ideas revolving around MachineKit. It would be a side project but a much needed one for me. To tell you the truth, I learn a lot of things constantly. I am always picking up new books, reading articles, and practicing Linux based initiatives. I use motors for fun for now but I have been learning more about C/C++ and Python as time persists.
>
> ...
>
> I said the site was fine and I think it is...it is in a list format. Far from a tree structure but the site is needed if people are to want to adjust to the way machinekit is set up.
>
> Seth
> On Tuesday, December 8, 2020 at 1:47:43 PM UTC-6 ce...@tuta.io wrote:
>
>> Thank you for the input!
>>
>> Dec 7, 2020, 07:04 by >> fun...@gmail.com <>>> :
>>
>> > Hello,
>> >
>> > I say start small w/ the site. Add a few hyperlinks to start. Make something official geared towards people like me who are newcomers and willing to spend time dedicated to application. I am a starter in this field but I am getting older and older.
>> >
>> Yes, small is something which I had in mind. I don't think there is enough power or willingness to do full in-depth rewrite.
>>
>> >
>> > ...
>> >
>> > Small site and a full representation of a working order would be nice for people staring blindly at the famous pages that seem to multiply quickly when viewing.
>> >
>> > I posted a small section from github in the form of a hyperlink. It basically just goes to an incomplete but dedicated piece of text on github that supports machinekit ideas w/ gcode, .ini files, and basics on ideas for setting up commands.
>> >
>> > I think this is a good starter for people. I am sure that most of you are very educated in this dept. and do not need to bother w/ newcomers and nonsensical questions. I understand. I have been behind the helm asking silly questions for five years in the BBB.io world. The books were nice at first, the starter scripts were nice too, and in the end, it seems that people stopped their futuristic approach to the entire community of newcomers, their ideas, and bringing old to new.
>> >
>> > There is no pressure from me. I can learn from the >> machinekit.io <http://machinekit.io>>> site like I have been doing. But after a bit of spending time on the site, it is an actually large database. It is easy to use and dedicated to instruction. This is nice.
>>
>> Dec 7, 2020, 07:04 by >> fun...@gmail.com <>>> :
>>
>> > Hello,
>> >
>> > I say start small w/ the site. Add a few hyperlinks to start. Make something official geared towards people like me who are newcomers and willing to spend time dedicated to application. I am a starter in this field but I am getting older and older.
>> >
>> Yes, small is something which I had in mind. I don't think there is enough power or willingness to do full in-depth rewrite.
>>
>> >
>> > ...
>> >
>> > Small site and a full representation of a working order would be nice for people staring blindly at the famous pages that seem to multiply quickly when viewing.
>> >
>> > I posted a small section from github in the form of a hyperlink. It basically just goes to an incomplete but dedicated piece of text on github that supports machinekit ideas w/ gcode, .ini files, and basics on ideas for setting up commands.
>> >
>> > I think this is a good starter for people. I am sure that most of you are very educated in this dept. and do not need to bother w/ newcomers and nonsensical questions. I understand. I have been behind the helm asking silly questions for five years in the BBB.io world. The books were nice at first, the starter scripts were nice too, and in the end, it seems that people stopped their futuristic approach to the entire community of newcomers, their ideas, and bringing old to new.
>> >
>> >
>> Most people who I talked about the site said to me that it is chaotic, the tree structure doesn't make sense and finding anything even with a search engine is Herculean task. It is interesting that you find the site fine and definitely something which needs to be taken into consideration.
>>
>> >
>> > I say keep it or are you guys going to rearrange things a bit? I ask b/c some of the ideas are not BBB.io related. I am not affiliated w/ the >> beagleboard.org <http://beagleboard.org>>> people but I enjoy using their boards for learning Linux based initiatives.
>> Most people who I talked about the site said to me that it is chaotic, the tree structure doesn't make sense and finding anything even with a search engine is Herculean task. It is interesting that you find the site fine and definitely something which needs to be taken into consideration.
>>
>> >
>> >
>> I would say the biggest problem is the fact that the site still presumes (and gives the impression) that Machinekit is monorepo. It does not differentiate between Machinekit-HAL, MKSoCFPGA, EMCApplication, HAL_ROS_control (when I include the Zultron's project) and other parts.
>>
>> And I hope many ideas are not BBB related. I would hate if people thought that Machinekit is BeagleBone only endeavour.
>>
>> >
>> > I just like motor work, the use of motors, and to mfg. new machines when I can to promote the ideas behind it all. Finding open minds is not easy. People would rather pay for a Arduino w/ a cheap daughter card so that they can put GRBL or Marlin on it. Machinekit is not the same and is highly configurable. This is what I think is nice about the entire set up you guys have in the CNC world.
>> >
>> Well, to be fair, there is a tonnage of interesting ideas in the Arduino world. If it all can be somehow interconnected or reused, the better. In terms of better documentation, getting up some page comparing Arduino products to Machinekit et al. is source of tension than a helpful tool in the long run.
>>
>> Cern.
>>
>> >
>> > But, like my old posts in the field, I say a Cape for the BBB or BBAI would be neat.
>> >
>> > Well, it is late and I have not tested much recently. I just got trying to handle interrupts on some Python3 source via the Motor Bridge Cape, the BBGG, and some other source. Testing will ensue!
>> >
>> > Seth
>> >
>> > P.S. Nothing is final. Things evolve, people take specific routes, and stuff stays the same. MachineKit!
>> > On Monday, November 30, 2020 at 12:54:09 PM UTC-6 >> ce...@tuta.io <>>> wrote:
>> >
>> >> The was discussion about this problem in the Machinekit chat room. The truth is that the community support in Machinekit is and was not good (being tactful) and with changes in development it only got worse.
>> >>
>> >> The documentation is bad and obsolete, the site itself is pretty chaotic and finding information is almost Sisyphean task. Everybody recognises this.
>> >>
>> >> The changes happening in development on Github were not manually propagated here to Google groups. Moreover, the links at top are again long obsolete in its step-by-step tutorial value (but the overall explanation and goals are still more or less valid). This is a lot more murky than to say "The site needs replacement" - because Machinekit always recognised the need for the user to be proactive and keep a finger on the pulse of development (and encouraged to do some development themselves). No version of Machinekit (meaning Machinekit organization's project here and in whole text) is production ready in the sense of guaranteeing stable version and high level of support. With the understanding that if somebody wants to or need to, he should produce his own stable branch (with implementing upstream changes as he sees fit). That was the status quo for companies using Machinekit in their commercial offerings.
>> >>
>> >> However, the community forum is good for something like user issue sharing, basic supporting questions and proud presentations of own use of Machinekit. Just people should not forget that there is also the Github issue tracker specific to each project used for developer talk (which does not mean that only developers or contributors can comment on presented issues).
>> >>
>> >> This out of the way, let's talk about how to reinvigorate the Machinekit community (because otherwise all this is useless). The website with repository README page are first point of contacts with new users. Usually what I need to know about new OSS is WHAT is it, WHY does it exist, HOW can I use it and WHEN should I use it.
>> >>
>> >> Current status of Machinekit site did not change much from the time Machinekit was forked. It is Jekyll based site with own theme build from Machinekit-docs repository with use of Github Actions service and deployed to >> >> Machinekit.github.io <http://Machinekit.github.io>>> <>> http://Machinekit.github.io>> >>> repository as Github Pages. I think this is a nice setup. (Not the Jekyll part, I don't care if Hugo, Gridsome, Docusaurus or whatever else is used, but the fact that it is basically static site which can be hosted pretty much anywhere and quickly replicated in case of problem by anybody.) The build is based on a very precarious Docker image (which is based on Debian Jessie and cannot be rebuilt anymore). And some parts are broken and no longer building. In other word, bad.
>> I would say the biggest problem is the fact that the site still presumes (and gives the impression) that Machinekit is monorepo. It does not differentiate between Machinekit-HAL, MKSoCFPGA, EMCApplication, HAL_ROS_control (when I include the Zultron's project) and other parts.
>>
>> And I hope many ideas are not BBB related. I would hate if people thought that Machinekit is BeagleBone only endeavour.
>>
>> >
>> > I just like motor work, the use of motors, and to mfg. new machines when I can to promote the ideas behind it all. Finding open minds is not easy. People would rather pay for a Arduino w/ a cheap daughter card so that they can put GRBL or Marlin on it. Machinekit is not the same and is highly configurable. This is what I think is nice about the entire set up you guys have in the CNC world.
>> >
>> Well, to be fair, there is a tonnage of interesting ideas in the Arduino world. If it all can be somehow interconnected or reused, the better. In terms of better documentation, getting up some page comparing Arduino products to Machinekit et al. is source of tension than a helpful tool in the long run.
>>
>> Cern.
>>
>> >
>> > But, like my old posts in the field, I say a Cape for the BBB or BBAI would be neat.
>> >
>> > Well, it is late and I have not tested much recently. I just got trying to handle interrupts on some Python3 source via the Motor Bridge Cape, the BBGG, and some other source. Testing will ensue!
>> >
>> > Seth
>> >
>> > P.S. Nothing is final. Things evolve, people take specific routes, and stuff stays the same. MachineKit!
>> > On Monday, November 30, 2020 at 12:54:09 PM UTC-6 >> ce...@tuta.io <>>> wrote:
>> >
>> >> The was discussion about this problem in the Machinekit chat room. The truth is that the community support in Machinekit is and was not good (being tactful) and with changes in development it only got worse.
>> >>
>> >> The documentation is bad and obsolete, the site itself is pretty chaotic and finding information is almost Sisyphean task. Everybody recognises this.
>> >>
>> >> The changes happening in development on Github were not manually propagated here to Google groups. Moreover, the links at top are again long obsolete in its step-by-step tutorial value (but the overall explanation and goals are still more or less valid). This is a lot more murky than to say "The site needs replacement" - because Machinekit always recognised the need for the user to be proactive and keep a finger on the pulse of development (and encouraged to do some development themselves). No version of Machinekit (meaning Machinekit organization's project here and in whole text) is production ready in the sense of guaranteeing stable version and high level of support. With the understanding that if somebody wants to or need to, he should produce his own stable branch (with implementing upstream changes as he sees fit). That was the status quo for companies using Machinekit in their commercial offerings.
>> >>
>> >> However, the community forum is good for something like user issue sharing, basic supporting questions and proud presentations of own use of Machinekit. Just people should not forget that there is also the Github issue tracker specific to each project used for developer talk (which does not mean that only developers or contributors can comment on presented issues).
>> >>
>> >> This out of the way, let's talk about how to reinvigorate the Machinekit community (because otherwise all this is useless). The website with repository README page are first point of contacts with new users. Usually what I need to know about new OSS is WHAT is it, WHY does it exist, HOW can I use it and WHEN should I use it.
>> >>
>
Mala Dies
Dec 13, 2020, 9:49:26 PM12/13/20
to Machinekit
Hello,
I can try. I looked over the idea of making the googlecodelab/tools. I would not want to hold the server on my end but I may find another resource. I will keep learning and like you said, I will try to not gear it towards the BBB.
...
I just know that those boards are my boards of choice. So, I am a bit hesitant to try to make it for another type of board or for a 32-bit OS w/ parport. But, like I say, I can try and I will keep learning while promoting the effort.
Seth
ce...@tuta.io
Dec 14, 2020, 10:14:59 PM12/14/20
to Mala Dies, Machinekit
Hi,
sure. I meant that it would be part of the Machinekit.io website and served as a part of it. But you are right that there currently is no provision for it and that would need to be scripted in.
So, for now just try to do what you think is best.
I am not against the BBB. It is a good system. If you want to zero on BBB, then by all means. I was just mentioning, that Machinekit is not geared only towards BBB and that there are groups using other platforms.
Cern.
Dec 14, 2020, 03:49 by fun...@gmail.com:
>
> Hello,
>
> I can try. I looked over the idea of making the googlecodelab/tools. I would not want to hold the server on my end but I may find another resource. I will keep learning and like you said, I will try to not gear it towards the BBB.
>
> ...
>
> I just know that those boards are my boards of choice. So, I am a bit hesitant to try to make it for another type of board or for a 32-bit OS w/ parport. But, like I say, I can try and I will keep learning while promoting the effort.
>
> Seth
> On Friday, December 11, 2020 at 8:07:17 PM UTC-6 ce...@tuta.io wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>> of course, this is a voluntary project, you can take as much time as you need. I heard that people who just learned something are the best teachers. I don't know if I agree completely, but for sure it is a good way how to sort out newly acquired knowledge even better!
>>
>> I was thinking of creating few hands-on tutorial for specific problems with use of Codelabs: >> https://github.com/googlecodelabs/tools>> (It looks quite easy, has OK-ish template and the flow looks very similar to instructables.)
>>
>> Cern.
>>
>>
>> Dec 9, 2020, 07:12 by >> fun...@gmail.com <>>> :
>>
>> > Hello,
>> >
>> > If you guys have patience, I would be willing to write up ideas revolving around MachineKit. It would be a side project but a much needed one for me. To tell you the truth, I learn a lot of things constantly. I am always picking up new books, reading articles, and practicing Linux based initiatives. I use motors for fun for now but I have been learning more about C/C++ and Python as time persists.
>> >
>> > ...
>> >
>> > I said the site was fine and I think it is...it is in a list format. Far from a tree structure but the site is needed if people are to want to adjust to the way machinekit is set up.
>> >
>> > Seth
>> > On Tuesday, December 8, 2020 at 1:47:43 PM UTC-6 >> ce...@tuta.io <>>> wrote:
>> >
>> >> Thank you for the input!
>> >>
>> >> Dec 7, 2020, 07:04 by >> >> fun...@gmail.com <>>> <>>> :
>> >>
>> >> > Hello,
>> >> >
>> >> > I say start small w/ the site. Add a few hyperlinks to start. Make something official geared towards people like me who are newcomers and willing to spend time dedicated to application. I am a starter in this field but I am getting older and older.
>> >> >
>> >> Yes, small is something which I had in mind. I don't think there is enough power or willingness to do full in-depth rewrite.
>> >>
>> >> >
>> >> > ...
>> >> >
>> >> > Small site and a full representation of a working order would be nice for people staring blindly at the famous pages that seem to multiply quickly when viewing.
>> >> >
>> >> > I posted a small section from github in the form of a hyperlink. It basically just goes to an incomplete but dedicated piece of text on github that supports machinekit ideas w/ gcode, .ini files, and basics on ideas for setting up commands.
>> >> >
>> >> > I think this is a good starter for people. I am sure that most of you are very educated in this dept. and do not need to bother w/ newcomers and nonsensical questions. I understand. I have been behind the helm asking silly questions for five years in the BBB.io world. The books were nice at first, the starter scripts were nice too, and in the end, it seems that people stopped their futuristic approach to the entire community of newcomers, their ideas, and bringing old to new.
>> >> >
>> >> > There is no pressure from me. I can learn from the >> >> machinekit.io <http://machinekit.io>>> <>> http://machinekit.io>> >>> site like I have been doing. But after a bit of spending time on the site, it is an actually large database. It is easy to use and dedicated to instruction. This is nice.
>> of course, this is a voluntary project, you can take as much time as you need. I heard that people who just learned something are the best teachers. I don't know if I agree completely, but for sure it is a good way how to sort out newly acquired knowledge even better!
>>
>> I was thinking of creating few hands-on tutorial for specific problems with use of Codelabs: >> https://github.com/googlecodelabs/tools>> (It looks quite easy, has OK-ish template and the flow looks very similar to instructables.)
>>
>> Cern.
>>
>>
>> Dec 9, 2020, 07:12 by >> fun...@gmail.com <>>> :
>>
>> > Hello,
>> >
>> > If you guys have patience, I would be willing to write up ideas revolving around MachineKit. It would be a side project but a much needed one for me. To tell you the truth, I learn a lot of things constantly. I am always picking up new books, reading articles, and practicing Linux based initiatives. I use motors for fun for now but I have been learning more about C/C++ and Python as time persists.
>> >
>> > ...
>> >
>> > I said the site was fine and I think it is...it is in a list format. Far from a tree structure but the site is needed if people are to want to adjust to the way machinekit is set up.
>> >
>> > Seth
>> > On Tuesday, December 8, 2020 at 1:47:43 PM UTC-6 >> ce...@tuta.io <>>> wrote:
>> >
>> >> Thank you for the input!
>> >>
>> >> Dec 7, 2020, 07:04 by >> >> fun...@gmail.com <>>> <>>> :
>> >>
>> >> > Hello,
>> >> >
>> >> > I say start small w/ the site. Add a few hyperlinks to start. Make something official geared towards people like me who are newcomers and willing to spend time dedicated to application. I am a starter in this field but I am getting older and older.
>> >> >
>> >> Yes, small is something which I had in mind. I don't think there is enough power or willingness to do full in-depth rewrite.
>> >>
>> >> >
>> >> > ...
>> >> >
>> >> > Small site and a full representation of a working order would be nice for people staring blindly at the famous pages that seem to multiply quickly when viewing.
>> >> >
>> >> > I posted a small section from github in the form of a hyperlink. It basically just goes to an incomplete but dedicated piece of text on github that supports machinekit ideas w/ gcode, .ini files, and basics on ideas for setting up commands.
>> >> >
>> >> > I think this is a good starter for people. I am sure that most of you are very educated in this dept. and do not need to bother w/ newcomers and nonsensical questions. I understand. I have been behind the helm asking silly questions for five years in the BBB.io world. The books were nice at first, the starter scripts were nice too, and in the end, it seems that people stopped their futuristic approach to the entire community of newcomers, their ideas, and bringing old to new.
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> Most people who I talked about the site said to me that it is chaotic, the tree structure doesn't make sense and finding anything even with a search engine is Herculean task. It is interesting that you find the site fine and definitely something which needs to be taken into consideration.
>> >>
>> >> >
>> >> > I say keep it or are you guys going to rearrange things a bit? I ask b/c some of the ideas are not BBB.io related. I am not affiliated w/ the >> >> beagleboard.org <http://beagleboard.org>>> <>> http://beagleboard.org>> >>> people but I enjoy using their boards for learning Linux based initiatives.
>> >> Most people who I talked about the site said to me that it is chaotic, the tree structure doesn't make sense and finding anything even with a search engine is Herculean task. It is interesting that you find the site fine and definitely something which needs to be taken into consideration.
>> >>
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> I would say the biggest problem is the fact that the site still presumes (and gives the impression) that Machinekit is monorepo. It does not differentiate between Machinekit-HAL, MKSoCFPGA, EMCApplication, HAL_ROS_control (when I include the Zultron's project) and other parts.
>> >>
>> >> And I hope many ideas are not BBB related. I would hate if people thought that Machinekit is BeagleBone only endeavour.
>> >>
>> >> >
>> >> > I just like motor work, the use of motors, and to mfg. new machines when I can to promote the ideas behind it all. Finding open minds is not easy. People would rather pay for a Arduino w/ a cheap daughter card so that they can put GRBL or Marlin on it. Machinekit is not the same and is highly configurable. This is what I think is nice about the entire set up you guys have in the CNC world.
>> >> >
>> >> Well, to be fair, there is a tonnage of interesting ideas in the Arduino world. If it all can be somehow interconnected or reused, the better. In terms of better documentation, getting up some page comparing Arduino products to Machinekit et al. is source of tension than a helpful tool in the long run.
>> >>
>> >> Cern.
>> >>
>> >> >
>> >> > But, like my old posts in the field, I say a Cape for the BBB or BBAI would be neat.
>> >> >
>> >> > Well, it is late and I have not tested much recently. I just got trying to handle interrupts on some Python3 source via the Motor Bridge Cape, the BBGG, and some other source. Testing will ensue!
>> >> >
>> >> > Seth
>> >> >
>> >> > P.S. Nothing is final. Things evolve, people take specific routes, and stuff stays the same. MachineKit!
>> >> > On Monday, November 30, 2020 at 12:54:09 PM UTC-6 >> >> ce...@tuta.io <>>> <>>> wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> >> The was discussion about this problem in the Machinekit chat room. The truth is that the community support in Machinekit is and was not good (being tactful) and with changes in development it only got worse.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> The documentation is bad and obsolete, the site itself is pretty chaotic and finding information is almost Sisyphean task. Everybody recognises this.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> The changes happening in development on Github were not manually propagated here to Google groups. Moreover, the links at top are again long obsolete in its step-by-step tutorial value (but the overall explanation and goals are still more or less valid). This is a lot more murky than to say "The site needs replacement" - because Machinekit always recognised the need for the user to be proactive and keep a finger on the pulse of development (and encouraged to do some development themselves). No version of Machinekit (meaning Machinekit organization's project here and in whole text) is production ready in the sense of guaranteeing stable version and high level of support. With the understanding that if somebody wants to or need to, he should produce his own stable branch (with implementing upstream changes as he sees fit). That was the status quo for companies using Machinekit in their commercial offerings.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> However, the community forum is good for something like user issue sharing, basic supporting questions and proud presentations of own use of Machinekit. Just people should not forget that there is also the Github issue tracker specific to each project used for developer talk (which does not mean that only developers or contributors can comment on presented issues).
>> >> >>
>> >> >> This out of the way, let's talk about how to reinvigorate the Machinekit community (because otherwise all this is useless). The website with repository README page are first point of contacts with new users. Usually what I need to know about new OSS is WHAT is it, WHY does it exist, HOW can I use it and WHEN should I use it.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Current status of Machinekit site did not change much from the time Machinekit was forked. It is Jekyll based site with own theme build from Machinekit-docs repository with use of Github Actions service and deployed to >> >> >> Machinekit.github.io <http://Machinekit.github.io>>> <>> http://Machinekit.github.io>> >>> <>> >> http://Machinekit.github.io>> >> >>> repository as Github Pages. I think this is a nice setup. (Not the Jekyll part, I don't care if Hugo, Gridsome, Docusaurus or whatever else is used, but the fact that it is basically static site which can be hosted pretty much anywhere and quickly replicated in case of problem by anybody.) The build is based on a very precarious Docker image (which is based on Debian Jessie and cannot be rebuilt anymore). And some parts are broken and no longer building. In other word, bad.
>> >> I would say the biggest problem is the fact that the site still presumes (and gives the impression) that Machinekit is monorepo. It does not differentiate between Machinekit-HAL, MKSoCFPGA, EMCApplication, HAL_ROS_control (when I include the Zultron's project) and other parts.
>> >>
>> >> And I hope many ideas are not BBB related. I would hate if people thought that Machinekit is BeagleBone only endeavour.
>> >>
>> >> >
>> >> > I just like motor work, the use of motors, and to mfg. new machines when I can to promote the ideas behind it all. Finding open minds is not easy. People would rather pay for a Arduino w/ a cheap daughter card so that they can put GRBL or Marlin on it. Machinekit is not the same and is highly configurable. This is what I think is nice about the entire set up you guys have in the CNC world.
>> >> >
>> >> Well, to be fair, there is a tonnage of interesting ideas in the Arduino world. If it all can be somehow interconnected or reused, the better. In terms of better documentation, getting up some page comparing Arduino products to Machinekit et al. is source of tension than a helpful tool in the long run.
>> >>
>> >> Cern.
>> >>
>> >> >
>> >> > But, like my old posts in the field, I say a Cape for the BBB or BBAI would be neat.
>> >> >
>> >> > Well, it is late and I have not tested much recently. I just got trying to handle interrupts on some Python3 source via the Motor Bridge Cape, the BBGG, and some other source. Testing will ensue!
>> >> >
>> >> > Seth
>> >> >
>> >> > P.S. Nothing is final. Things evolve, people take specific routes, and stuff stays the same. MachineKit!
>> >> > On Monday, November 30, 2020 at 12:54:09 PM UTC-6 >> >> ce...@tuta.io <>>> <>>> wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> >> The was discussion about this problem in the Machinekit chat room. The truth is that the community support in Machinekit is and was not good (being tactful) and with changes in development it only got worse.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> The documentation is bad and obsolete, the site itself is pretty chaotic and finding information is almost Sisyphean task. Everybody recognises this.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> The changes happening in development on Github were not manually propagated here to Google groups. Moreover, the links at top are again long obsolete in its step-by-step tutorial value (but the overall explanation and goals are still more or less valid). This is a lot more murky than to say "The site needs replacement" - because Machinekit always recognised the need for the user to be proactive and keep a finger on the pulse of development (and encouraged to do some development themselves). No version of Machinekit (meaning Machinekit organization's project here and in whole text) is production ready in the sense of guaranteeing stable version and high level of support. With the understanding that if somebody wants to or need to, he should produce his own stable branch (with implementing upstream changes as he sees fit). That was the status quo for companies using Machinekit in their commercial offerings.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> However, the community forum is good for something like user issue sharing, basic supporting questions and proud presentations of own use of Machinekit. Just people should not forget that there is also the Github issue tracker specific to each project used for developer talk (which does not mean that only developers or contributors can comment on presented issues).
>> >> >>
>> >> >> This out of the way, let's talk about how to reinvigorate the Machinekit community (because otherwise all this is useless). The website with repository README page are first point of contacts with new users. Usually what I need to know about new OSS is WHAT is it, WHY does it exist, HOW can I use it and WHEN should I use it.
>> >> >>
> To unsubscribe from this topic, visit > https://groups.google.com/d/topic/machinekit/rDJkikt3mio/unsubscribe> .
> To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to > machinekit+...@googlegroups.com> .
> To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/machinekit/092c84a2-32c2-4fe6-bdfb-59c0968bc57bn%40googlegroups.com <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/machinekit/092c84a2-32c2-4fe6-bdfb-59c0968bc57bn%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>> .
>
Mala Dies
Dec 17, 2020, 9:50:21 PM12/17/20
to Machinekit
Hello,
You got it. Do not solely rely on me but if you want me to start sharing ideas, I can keep it up to date constantly. If learning this source will help me w/ my machines, learning is preferable for me and I can document things well enough to have others understand it easily (outside of some reasoning behind C/C++).
Seth
P.S. So, even though I have not started yet, starting w/ machines is something I find neat. So, I am starting now at an older age b/c "why not?" Why would I just sit still doing nothing all day? Oh and sir, I understand about the gearing towards the BBB for me. I brought it up b/c they have an image w/ it specifically motioned towards the machinekit ideas. I understand now that other boards hold machinekit too. Now, if I can only add in machinekit jargon while creating these messages. Sheesh.
Mala Dies
Dec 20, 2020, 11:22:07 PM12/20/20
to Machinekit
Hello,
Okay. I am trying CodeLabs now. Not fun! Although I am willing to spend more time on this endeavor, publishing via wiki might not be an answer. You are right. So, w/ codelabs, I can publish a small routine, test it, and see the outcome. Nice but there is one awful pitch I forgot to mention. My codelabs codelab from their instructions does not work (for now).
So, I will attempt it later.
Seth
P.S. BBL w/ more support for the findings and workings.
ce...@tuta.io
Dec 27, 2020, 6:47:55 PM12/27/20
to Mala Dies, Machinekit
Hello,
Dec 21, 2020, 05:22 by fun...@gmail.com:
> Hello,
>
> Okay. I am trying CodeLabs now. Not fun!
>
Sorry to hear that!
>
> Although I am willing to spend more time on this endeavor, publishing via wiki might not be an answer. You are right. So, w/ codelabs, I can publish a small routine, test it, and see the outcome. Nice but there is one awful pitch I forgot to mention. My codelabs codelab from their instructions does not work (for now).
>
> So, I will attempt it later.
>
Just do what you think is for the best! If you think there is a better solution, I am open to all.
Cern.
>
> Seth
>
> P.S. BBL w/ more support for the findings and workings.
>
>> >> >> > There is no pressure from me. I can learn from the >> >> >> machinekit.io <http://machinekit.io>>> <>> http://machinekit.io>> >>> <>> >> http://machinekit.io>> >> >>> site like I have been doing. But after a bit of spending time on the site, it is an actually large database. It is easy to use and dedicated to instruction. This is nice.
> To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/machinekit/6aa64e71-27e6-42dd-8605-7e96a314c7d8n%40googlegroups.com <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/machinekit/6aa64e71-27e6-42dd-8605-7e96a314c7d8n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>> .
>
Dec 21, 2020, 05:22 by fun...@gmail.com:
> Hello,
>
> Okay. I am trying CodeLabs now. Not fun!
>
>
> Although I am willing to spend more time on this endeavor, publishing via wiki might not be an answer. You are right. So, w/ codelabs, I can publish a small routine, test it, and see the outcome. Nice but there is one awful pitch I forgot to mention. My codelabs codelab from their instructions does not work (for now).
>
> So, I will attempt it later.
>
Cern.
>
> Seth
>
> P.S. BBL w/ more support for the findings and workings.
>
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> Most people who I talked about the site said to me that it is chaotic, the tree structure doesn't make sense and finding anything even with a search engine is Herculean task. It is interesting that you find the site fine and definitely something which needs to be taken into consideration.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > I say keep it or are you guys going to rearrange things a bit? I ask b/c some of the ideas are not BBB.io related. I am not affiliated w/ the >> >> >> beagleboard.org <http://beagleboard.org>>> <>> http://beagleboard.org>> >>> <>> >> http://beagleboard.org>> >> >>> people but I enjoy using their boards for learning Linux based initiatives.
>> >> >> Most people who I talked about the site said to me that it is chaotic, the tree structure doesn't make sense and finding anything even with a search engine is Herculean task. It is interesting that you find the site fine and definitely something which needs to be taken into consideration.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> I would say the biggest problem is the fact that the site still presumes (and gives the impression) that Machinekit is monorepo. It does not differentiate between Machinekit-HAL, MKSoCFPGA, EMCApplication, HAL_ROS_control (when I include the Zultron's project) and other parts.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> And I hope many ideas are not BBB related. I would hate if people thought that Machinekit is BeagleBone only endeavour.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > I just like motor work, the use of motors, and to mfg. new machines when I can to promote the ideas behind it all. Finding open minds is not easy. People would rather pay for a Arduino w/ a cheap daughter card so that they can put GRBL or Marlin on it. Machinekit is not the same and is highly configurable. This is what I think is nice about the entire set up you guys have in the CNC world.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> Well, to be fair, there is a tonnage of interesting ideas in the Arduino world. If it all can be somehow interconnected or reused, the better. In terms of better documentation, getting up some page comparing Arduino products to Machinekit et al. is source of tension than a helpful tool in the long run.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Cern.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > But, like my old posts in the field, I say a Cape for the BBB or BBAI would be neat.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > Well, it is late and I have not tested much recently. I just got trying to handle interrupts on some Python3 source via the Motor Bridge Cape, the BBGG, and some other source. Testing will ensue!
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > Seth
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > P.S. Nothing is final. Things evolve, people take specific routes, and stuff stays the same. MachineKit!
>> >> >> > On Monday, November 30, 2020 at 12:54:09 PM UTC-6 >> >> >> ce...@tuta.io <>>> <>>> <>>> wrote:
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> The was discussion about this problem in the Machinekit chat room. The truth is that the community support in Machinekit is and was not good (being tactful) and with changes in development it only got worse.
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> The documentation is bad and obsolete, the site itself is pretty chaotic and finding information is almost Sisyphean task. Everybody recognises this.
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> The changes happening in development on Github were not manually propagated here to Google groups. Moreover, the links at top are again long obsolete in its step-by-step tutorial value (but the overall explanation and goals are still more or less valid). This is a lot more murky than to say "The site needs replacement" - because Machinekit always recognised the need for the user to be proactive and keep a finger on the pulse of development (and encouraged to do some development themselves). No version of Machinekit (meaning Machinekit organization's project here and in whole text) is production ready in the sense of guaranteeing stable version and high level of support. With the understanding that if somebody wants to or need to, he should produce his own stable branch (with implementing upstream changes as he sees fit). That was the status quo for companies using Machinekit in their commercial offerings.
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> However, the community forum is good for something like user issue sharing, basic supporting questions and proud presentations of own use of Machinekit. Just people should not forget that there is also the Github issue tracker specific to each project used for developer talk (which does not mean that only developers or contributors can comment on presented issues).
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> This out of the way, let's talk about how to reinvigorate the Machinekit community (because otherwise all this is useless). The website with repository README page are first point of contacts with new users. Usually what I need to know about new OSS is WHAT is it, WHY does it exist, HOW can I use it and WHEN should I use it.
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> Current status of Machinekit site did not change much from the time Machinekit was forked. It is Jekyll based site with own theme build from Machinekit-docs repository with use of Github Actions service and deployed to >> >> >> >> Machinekit.github.io <http://Machinekit.github.io>>> <>> http://Machinekit.github.io>> >>> <>> >> http://Machinekit.github.io>> >> >>> <>> >> >> http://Machinekit.github.io>> >> >> >>> repository as Github Pages. I think this is a nice setup. (Not the Jekyll part, I don't care if Hugo, Gridsome, Docusaurus or whatever else is used, but the fact that it is basically static site which can be hosted pretty much anywhere and quickly replicated in case of problem by anybody.) The build is based on a very precarious Docker image (which is based on Debian Jessie and cannot be rebuilt anymore). And some parts are broken and no longer building. In other word, bad.
>> >> >> I would say the biggest problem is the fact that the site still presumes (and gives the impression) that Machinekit is monorepo. It does not differentiate between Machinekit-HAL, MKSoCFPGA, EMCApplication, HAL_ROS_control (when I include the Zultron's project) and other parts.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> And I hope many ideas are not BBB related. I would hate if people thought that Machinekit is BeagleBone only endeavour.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > I just like motor work, the use of motors, and to mfg. new machines when I can to promote the ideas behind it all. Finding open minds is not easy. People would rather pay for a Arduino w/ a cheap daughter card so that they can put GRBL or Marlin on it. Machinekit is not the same and is highly configurable. This is what I think is nice about the entire set up you guys have in the CNC world.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> Well, to be fair, there is a tonnage of interesting ideas in the Arduino world. If it all can be somehow interconnected or reused, the better. In terms of better documentation, getting up some page comparing Arduino products to Machinekit et al. is source of tension than a helpful tool in the long run.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Cern.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > But, like my old posts in the field, I say a Cape for the BBB or BBAI would be neat.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > Well, it is late and I have not tested much recently. I just got trying to handle interrupts on some Python3 source via the Motor Bridge Cape, the BBGG, and some other source. Testing will ensue!
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > Seth
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > P.S. Nothing is final. Things evolve, people take specific routes, and stuff stays the same. MachineKit!
>> >> >> > On Monday, November 30, 2020 at 12:54:09 PM UTC-6 >> >> >> ce...@tuta.io <>>> <>>> <>>> wrote:
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> The was discussion about this problem in the Machinekit chat room. The truth is that the community support in Machinekit is and was not good (being tactful) and with changes in development it only got worse.
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> The documentation is bad and obsolete, the site itself is pretty chaotic and finding information is almost Sisyphean task. Everybody recognises this.
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> The changes happening in development on Github were not manually propagated here to Google groups. Moreover, the links at top are again long obsolete in its step-by-step tutorial value (but the overall explanation and goals are still more or less valid). This is a lot more murky than to say "The site needs replacement" - because Machinekit always recognised the need for the user to be proactive and keep a finger on the pulse of development (and encouraged to do some development themselves). No version of Machinekit (meaning Machinekit organization's project here and in whole text) is production ready in the sense of guaranteeing stable version and high level of support. With the understanding that if somebody wants to or need to, he should produce his own stable branch (with implementing upstream changes as he sees fit). That was the status quo for companies using Machinekit in their commercial offerings.
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> However, the community forum is good for something like user issue sharing, basic supporting questions and proud presentations of own use of Machinekit. Just people should not forget that there is also the Github issue tracker specific to each project used for developer talk (which does not mean that only developers or contributors can comment on presented issues).
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> This out of the way, let's talk about how to reinvigorate the Machinekit community (because otherwise all this is useless). The website with repository README page are first point of contacts with new users. Usually what I need to know about new OSS is WHAT is it, WHY does it exist, HOW can I use it and WHEN should I use it.
>> >> >> >>
>
ce...@tuta.io
Dec 27, 2020, 7:02:03 PM12/27/20
to Mala Dies, Machinekit
Hello,
Dec 18, 2020, 03:50 by fun...@gmail.com:
> Hello,
>
> You got it. Do not solely rely on me but if you want me to start sharing ideas, I can keep it up to date constantly. If learning this source will help me w/ my machines, learning is preferable for me and I can document things well enough to have others understand it easily (outside of some reasoning behind C/C++).
>
I think that different people have different ways of how to approach this endeavour. Things which were important for me to understand, so I can boast understanding of the whole system are not necessarily things somebody else will need to understand for the same level of feelings. I am and was approaching this from a software engineering point of view, not a machinist or machine integrator angle. So I am interested in how and with what exactly people are struggling with.
>
> Seth
>
> P.S. So, even though I have not started yet, starting w/ machines is something I find neat. So, I am starting now at an older age b/c "why not?" Why would I just sit still doing nothing all day? Oh and sir, I understand about the gearing towards the BBB for me. I brought it up b/c they have an image w/ it specifically motioned towards the machinekit ideas. I understand now that other boards hold machinekit too. Now, if I can only add in machinekit jargon while creating these messages. Sheesh.
>
Nobody is too old to learn something new! And on a side note, I have always found that I am able to learn when I want to, not when I should or somebody else thinks that I should. Or when I have a problem in need of solution. So I am fully supporting this approach.
Cern.
>> >> >> > There is no pressure from me. I can learn from the >> >> >> machinekit.io <http://machinekit.io>>> <>> http://machinekit.io>> >>> <>> >> http://machinekit.io>> >> >>> site like I have been doing. But after a bit of spending time on the site, it is an actually large database. It is easy to use and dedicated to instruction. This is nice.
> To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/machinekit/8f3bd783-bfcb-403e-b7b3-d9f819de3c06n%40googlegroups.com <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/machinekit/8f3bd783-bfcb-403e-b7b3-d9f819de3c06n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>> .
>
Dec 18, 2020, 03:50 by fun...@gmail.com:
> Hello,
>
> You got it. Do not solely rely on me but if you want me to start sharing ideas, I can keep it up to date constantly. If learning this source will help me w/ my machines, learning is preferable for me and I can document things well enough to have others understand it easily (outside of some reasoning behind C/C++).
>
>
> Seth
>
> P.S. So, even though I have not started yet, starting w/ machines is something I find neat. So, I am starting now at an older age b/c "why not?" Why would I just sit still doing nothing all day? Oh and sir, I understand about the gearing towards the BBB for me. I brought it up b/c they have an image w/ it specifically motioned towards the machinekit ideas. I understand now that other boards hold machinekit too. Now, if I can only add in machinekit jargon while creating these messages. Sheesh.
>
Cern.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> Most people who I talked about the site said to me that it is chaotic, the tree structure doesn't make sense and finding anything even with a search engine is Herculean task. It is interesting that you find the site fine and definitely something which needs to be taken into consideration.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > I say keep it or are you guys going to rearrange things a bit? I ask b/c some of the ideas are not BBB.io related. I am not affiliated w/ the >> >> >> beagleboard.org <http://beagleboard.org>>> <>> http://beagleboard.org>> >>> <>> >> http://beagleboard.org>> >> >>> people but I enjoy using their boards for learning Linux based initiatives.
>> >> >> Most people who I talked about the site said to me that it is chaotic, the tree structure doesn't make sense and finding anything even with a search engine is Herculean task. It is interesting that you find the site fine and definitely something which needs to be taken into consideration.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> I would say the biggest problem is the fact that the site still presumes (and gives the impression) that Machinekit is monorepo. It does not differentiate between Machinekit-HAL, MKSoCFPGA, EMCApplication, HAL_ROS_control (when I include the Zultron's project) and other parts.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> And I hope many ideas are not BBB related. I would hate if people thought that Machinekit is BeagleBone only endeavour.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > I just like motor work, the use of motors, and to mfg. new machines when I can to promote the ideas behind it all. Finding open minds is not easy. People would rather pay for a Arduino w/ a cheap daughter card so that they can put GRBL or Marlin on it. Machinekit is not the same and is highly configurable. This is what I think is nice about the entire set up you guys have in the CNC world.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> Well, to be fair, there is a tonnage of interesting ideas in the Arduino world. If it all can be somehow interconnected or reused, the better. In terms of better documentation, getting up some page comparing Arduino products to Machinekit et al. is source of tension than a helpful tool in the long run.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Cern.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > But, like my old posts in the field, I say a Cape for the BBB or BBAI would be neat.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > Well, it is late and I have not tested much recently. I just got trying to handle interrupts on some Python3 source via the Motor Bridge Cape, the BBGG, and some other source. Testing will ensue!
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > Seth
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > P.S. Nothing is final. Things evolve, people take specific routes, and stuff stays the same. MachineKit!
>> >> >> > On Monday, November 30, 2020 at 12:54:09 PM UTC-6 >> >> >> ce...@tuta.io <>>> <>>> <>>> wrote:
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> The was discussion about this problem in the Machinekit chat room. The truth is that the community support in Machinekit is and was not good (being tactful) and with changes in development it only got worse.
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> The documentation is bad and obsolete, the site itself is pretty chaotic and finding information is almost Sisyphean task. Everybody recognises this.
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> The changes happening in development on Github were not manually propagated here to Google groups. Moreover, the links at top are again long obsolete in its step-by-step tutorial value (but the overall explanation and goals are still more or less valid). This is a lot more murky than to say "The site needs replacement" - because Machinekit always recognised the need for the user to be proactive and keep a finger on the pulse of development (and encouraged to do some development themselves). No version of Machinekit (meaning Machinekit organization's project here and in whole text) is production ready in the sense of guaranteeing stable version and high level of support. With the understanding that if somebody wants to or need to, he should produce his own stable branch (with implementing upstream changes as he sees fit). That was the status quo for companies using Machinekit in their commercial offerings.
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> However, the community forum is good for something like user issue sharing, basic supporting questions and proud presentations of own use of Machinekit. Just people should not forget that there is also the Github issue tracker specific to each project used for developer talk (which does not mean that only developers or contributors can comment on presented issues).
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> This out of the way, let's talk about how to reinvigorate the Machinekit community (because otherwise all this is useless). The website with repository README page are first point of contacts with new users. Usually what I need to know about new OSS is WHAT is it, WHY does it exist, HOW can I use it and WHEN should I use it.
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> Current status of Machinekit site did not change much from the time Machinekit was forked. It is Jekyll based site with own theme build from Machinekit-docs repository with use of Github Actions service and deployed to >> >> >> >> Machinekit.github.io <http://Machinekit.github.io>>> <>> http://Machinekit.github.io>> >>> <>> >> http://Machinekit.github.io>> >> >>> <>> >> >> http://Machinekit.github.io>> >> >> >>> repository as Github Pages. I think this is a nice setup. (Not the Jekyll part, I don't care if Hugo, Gridsome, Docusaurus or whatever else is used, but the fact that it is basically static site which can be hosted pretty much anywhere and quickly replicated in case of problem by anybody.) The build is based on a very precarious Docker image (which is based on Debian Jessie and cannot be rebuilt anymore). And some parts are broken and no longer building. In other word, bad.
>> >> >> I would say the biggest problem is the fact that the site still presumes (and gives the impression) that Machinekit is monorepo. It does not differentiate between Machinekit-HAL, MKSoCFPGA, EMCApplication, HAL_ROS_control (when I include the Zultron's project) and other parts.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> And I hope many ideas are not BBB related. I would hate if people thought that Machinekit is BeagleBone only endeavour.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > I just like motor work, the use of motors, and to mfg. new machines when I can to promote the ideas behind it all. Finding open minds is not easy. People would rather pay for a Arduino w/ a cheap daughter card so that they can put GRBL or Marlin on it. Machinekit is not the same and is highly configurable. This is what I think is nice about the entire set up you guys have in the CNC world.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> Well, to be fair, there is a tonnage of interesting ideas in the Arduino world. If it all can be somehow interconnected or reused, the better. In terms of better documentation, getting up some page comparing Arduino products to Machinekit et al. is source of tension than a helpful tool in the long run.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Cern.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > But, like my old posts in the field, I say a Cape for the BBB or BBAI would be neat.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > Well, it is late and I have not tested much recently. I just got trying to handle interrupts on some Python3 source via the Motor Bridge Cape, the BBGG, and some other source. Testing will ensue!
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > Seth
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > P.S. Nothing is final. Things evolve, people take specific routes, and stuff stays the same. MachineKit!
>> >> >> > On Monday, November 30, 2020 at 12:54:09 PM UTC-6 >> >> >> ce...@tuta.io <>>> <>>> <>>> wrote:
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> The was discussion about this problem in the Machinekit chat room. The truth is that the community support in Machinekit is and was not good (being tactful) and with changes in development it only got worse.
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> The documentation is bad and obsolete, the site itself is pretty chaotic and finding information is almost Sisyphean task. Everybody recognises this.
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> The changes happening in development on Github were not manually propagated here to Google groups. Moreover, the links at top are again long obsolete in its step-by-step tutorial value (but the overall explanation and goals are still more or less valid). This is a lot more murky than to say "The site needs replacement" - because Machinekit always recognised the need for the user to be proactive and keep a finger on the pulse of development (and encouraged to do some development themselves). No version of Machinekit (meaning Machinekit organization's project here and in whole text) is production ready in the sense of guaranteeing stable version and high level of support. With the understanding that if somebody wants to or need to, he should produce his own stable branch (with implementing upstream changes as he sees fit). That was the status quo for companies using Machinekit in their commercial offerings.
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> However, the community forum is good for something like user issue sharing, basic supporting questions and proud presentations of own use of Machinekit. Just people should not forget that there is also the Github issue tracker specific to each project used for developer talk (which does not mean that only developers or contributors can comment on presented issues).
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> This out of the way, let's talk about how to reinvigorate the Machinekit community (because otherwise all this is useless). The website with repository README page are first point of contacts with new users. Usually what I need to know about new OSS is WHAT is it, WHY does it exist, HOW can I use it and WHEN should I use it.
>> >> >> >>
>
Mala Dies
Dec 27, 2020, 10:36:06 PM12/27/20
to Machinekit
Hello,
I found markdown.org. It seems, newly born again software "expert" here, there are many avenues to take on this venture. CodeLabs does not like me or Ubuntu for some reason.
...
I can try CodeLabs again under Debian if necessary but it seems that there are many avenues available with markdown. I have been reading and I have used the markdown briefly before reading into it more recently.
If necessary, I can start to transfer specific pages out of your machinekit.io pages or make new ones for people like me who are new to machinekit.
I am not sure what is needed right now. I know what I would do but it may not be as professional as some people would like. I would just use markdown to create some simple examples to test. For example, I can try w/ the BBB and learn the commands and publish what I am learning. I have not been around long enough to know every in and out but...
- I have a motor
- I have a BBB
- I have some nice source to test the motor
- I can get an image of Machinekit ready to prevail with the BBB image
Easy to read or black and white text? See me, I am not a popular person nor do I stay accustomed to seizures from lucid colors while reading. I like it plain and simple (one reason google groups is nice). No frills.
...
So, in retrospect, I would say markdown and in an easy-to-read format, i.e. bullet points, some code from testing, some command usage, and outcomes w/ all of that combined into a video for "leverage." People love the final product.
I have a couple more items to get so I can alter the state of this motor but I will look to machinekit for usage. I am learning currently about machinekit slowly along w/ commands and .ini files for usage on the commands.
Seth
P.S. If you need me to promote my findings on "popular" links about machinekit.io and the ideas involved, let me know. I will do it. Places like Hackster.io, Hackady.io, Instructables, and places of that nature might bring in some fascination since I cannot really provide high levels of C/C++ source right now. If it works, it works. People who use 32-bit machines should know and I think people should use it based on this info. about it being dedicated to 32-bit machines. Just for the record, I will be posting some files in here regarding my markdown findings on the subject of machinekit.io and my personal usage. Sorry for the long explanation. Over and out...tutorials on the way!
Mala Dies
Dec 28, 2020, 9:04:14 PM12/28/20
to Machinekit
Sir,
Also...are you (we) trying to move away from Jekll and markdown? If so, I should not waste my time in markdown for now.
...
Seth
P.S. I have found that there are some other items out there like what you described, the CodeLabs and some others, that can help me help you help me help others. Phew. That was difficult to type out.
On Sunday, December 27, 2020 at 6:02:03 PM UTC-6 ce...@tuta.io wrote:
ce...@tuta.io
Dec 30, 2020, 12:59:55 PM12/30/20
to Mala Dies, Machinekit
Hi,
Dec 28, 2020, 04:36 by fun...@gmail.com:
> Hello,
>
> I found markdown.org. It seems, newly born again software "expert" here, there are many avenues to take on this venture. CodeLabs does not like me or Ubuntu for some reason.
>
> ...
>
> I can try CodeLabs again under Debian if necessary but it seems that there are many avenues available with markdown. I have been reading and I have used the markdown briefly before reading into it more recently.
>
> If necessary, I can start to transfer specific pages out of your machinekit.io pages or make new ones for people like me who are new to machinekit.
>
I think making new ones would be the right thing in this, because trying to bend something to own needs is always mildly frustrating and could potentially lead to loss of stamina or interest. When one starts on a green field, everything looks more promising.
This way one can also create something based on his best intentions and knowledge without the need to constantly double-guess what somebody else was thinking.
> I am not sure what is needed right now. I know what I would do but it may not be as professional as some people would like.
>
Professionals are just amateurs who get paid. This is part of what I wanted to say by pointing out that everyone has different vector how to learn this tool. I probably messed my reasoning up.
For me, the most important part was to understand that it is not about CNC or path planning or kernelspace and userspace modules or any of that parts most frequently talked about, but it is about shared memory based IPC, and its functional API. But for somebody else, somebody interested in other areas, it will be different.
So I do think that user description, understanding and on this based tutorials are important. Sure, for somebody it will not be "professional" enough, for somebody else it will be exactly what he was looking for. That's life.
> I would just use markdown to create some simple examples to test. For example, I can try w/ the BBB and learn the commands and publish what I am learning. I have not been around long enough to know every in and out but...
>
Sounds great. Usually people who just recently gained some knowledge are the ones best poised to spread it to others.
> I have a motor
> I have a BBB
> I have some nice source to test the motor
> I can get an image of Machinekit ready to prevail with the BBB image
> Easy to read or black and white text? See me, I am not a popular person nor do I stay accustomed to seizures from lucid colors while reading. I like it plain and simple (one reason google groups is nice). No frills.
>
Sure, that is the advantage of using Markdow or AsciiDoc. These are targeted toward the content and the form can be modified afterwards.
So, you are against the change to something modern, like Discourse?
>
> ...
>
> So, in retrospect, I would say markdown and in an easy-to-read format, i.e. bullet points, some code from testing, some command usage, and outcomes w/ all of that combined into a video for "leverage." People love the final product.
>
Great, videos are nice! Especially from someone who has a pleasant voice.
>
> I have a couple more items to get so I can alter the state of this motor but I will look to machinekit for usage. I am learning currently about machinekit slowly along w/ commands and .ini files for usage on the commands.
>
> Seth
>
> P.S. If you need me to promote my findings on "popular" links about machinekit.io and the ideas involved, let me know. I will do it. Places like Hackster.io, Hackady.io, Instructables, and places of that nature might bring in some fascination since I cannot really provide high levels of C/C++ source right now. If it works, it works. People who use 32-bit machines should know and I think people should use it based on this info. about it being dedicated to 32-bit machines. Just for the record, I will be posting some files in here regarding my markdown findings on the subject of machinekit.io and my personal usage. Sorry for the long explanation. Over and out...tutorials on the way!
>
Do what you think is best. I have found that it is the best approach.
Cern.
>> >> >> >> > There is no pressure from me. I can learn from the >> >> >> >> machinekit.io <http://machinekit.io>>> <>> http://machinekit.io>> >>> <>> >> http://machinekit.io>> >> >>> <>> >> >> http://machinekit.io>> >> >> >>> site like I have been doing. But after a bit of spending time on the site, it is an actually large database. It is easy to use and dedicated to instruction. This is nice.
> To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/machinekit/03d9fb4d-e53b-4c3f-ae70-685a2d1f1e6an%40googlegroups.com <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/machinekit/03d9fb4d-e53b-4c3f-ae70-685a2d1f1e6an%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>> .
>
Dec 28, 2020, 04:36 by fun...@gmail.com:
> Hello,
>
> I found markdown.org. It seems, newly born again software "expert" here, there are many avenues to take on this venture. CodeLabs does not like me or Ubuntu for some reason.
>
> ...
>
> I can try CodeLabs again under Debian if necessary but it seems that there are many avenues available with markdown. I have been reading and I have used the markdown briefly before reading into it more recently.
>
>
I think making new ones would be the right thing in this, because trying to bend something to own needs is always mildly frustrating and could potentially lead to loss of stamina or interest. When one starts on a green field, everything looks more promising.
This way one can also create something based on his best intentions and knowledge without the need to constantly double-guess what somebody else was thinking.
> I am not sure what is needed right now. I know what I would do but it may not be as professional as some people would like.
>
For me, the most important part was to understand that it is not about CNC or path planning or kernelspace and userspace modules or any of that parts most frequently talked about, but it is about shared memory based IPC, and its functional API. But for somebody else, somebody interested in other areas, it will be different.
So I do think that user description, understanding and on this based tutorials are important. Sure, for somebody it will not be "professional" enough, for somebody else it will be exactly what he was looking for. That's life.
> I would just use markdown to create some simple examples to test. For example, I can try w/ the BBB and learn the commands and publish what I am learning. I have not been around long enough to know every in and out but...
>
> I have a motor
> I have a BBB
> I have some nice source to test the motor
> I can get an image of Machinekit ready to prevail with the BBB image
> Easy to read or black and white text? See me, I am not a popular person nor do I stay accustomed to seizures from lucid colors while reading. I like it plain and simple (one reason google groups is nice). No frills.
>
So, you are against the change to something modern, like Discourse?
>
> ...
>
> So, in retrospect, I would say markdown and in an easy-to-read format, i.e. bullet points, some code from testing, some command usage, and outcomes w/ all of that combined into a video for "leverage." People love the final product.
>
>
> I have a couple more items to get so I can alter the state of this motor but I will look to machinekit for usage. I am learning currently about machinekit slowly along w/ commands and .ini files for usage on the commands.
>
> Seth
>
> P.S. If you need me to promote my findings on "popular" links about machinekit.io and the ideas involved, let me know. I will do it. Places like Hackster.io, Hackady.io, Instructables, and places of that nature might bring in some fascination since I cannot really provide high levels of C/C++ source right now. If it works, it works. People who use 32-bit machines should know and I think people should use it based on this info. about it being dedicated to 32-bit machines. Just for the record, I will be posting some files in here regarding my markdown findings on the subject of machinekit.io and my personal usage. Sorry for the long explanation. Over and out...tutorials on the way!
>
Cern.
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> Most people who I talked about the site said to me that it is chaotic, the tree structure doesn't make sense and finding anything even with a search engine is Herculean task. It is interesting that you find the site fine and definitely something which needs to be taken into consideration.
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> > I say keep it or are you guys going to rearrange things a bit? I ask b/c some of the ideas are not BBB.io related. I am not affiliated w/ the >> >> >> >> beagleboard.org <http://beagleboard.org>>> <>> http://beagleboard.org>> >>> <>> >> http://beagleboard.org>> >> >>> <>> >> >> http://beagleboard.org>> >> >> >>> people but I enjoy using their boards for learning Linux based initiatives.
>> >> >> >> Most people who I talked about the site said to me that it is chaotic, the tree structure doesn't make sense and finding anything even with a search engine is Herculean task. It is interesting that you find the site fine and definitely something which needs to be taken into consideration.
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> I would say the biggest problem is the fact that the site still presumes (and gives the impression) that Machinekit is monorepo. It does not differentiate between Machinekit-HAL, MKSoCFPGA, EMCApplication, HAL_ROS_control (when I include the Zultron's project) and other parts.
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> And I hope many ideas are not BBB related. I would hate if people thought that Machinekit is BeagleBone only endeavour.
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> > I just like motor work, the use of motors, and to mfg. new machines when I can to promote the ideas behind it all. Finding open minds is not easy. People would rather pay for a Arduino w/ a cheap daughter card so that they can put GRBL or Marlin on it. Machinekit is not the same and is highly configurable. This is what I think is nice about the entire set up you guys have in the CNC world.
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> Well, to be fair, there is a tonnage of interesting ideas in the Arduino world. If it all can be somehow interconnected or reused, the better. In terms of better documentation, getting up some page comparing Arduino products to Machinekit et al. is source of tension than a helpful tool in the long run.
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> Cern.
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> > But, like my old posts in the field, I say a Cape for the BBB or BBAI would be neat.
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> > Well, it is late and I have not tested much recently. I just got trying to handle interrupts on some Python3 source via the Motor Bridge Cape, the BBGG, and some other source. Testing will ensue!
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> > Seth
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> > P.S. Nothing is final. Things evolve, people take specific routes, and stuff stays the same. MachineKit!
>> >> >> >> > On Monday, November 30, 2020 at 12:54:09 PM UTC-6 >> >> >> >> ce...@tuta.io <>>> <>>> <>>> <>>> wrote:
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> >> The was discussion about this problem in the Machinekit chat room. The truth is that the community support in Machinekit is and was not good (being tactful) and with changes in development it only got worse.
>> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> The documentation is bad and obsolete, the site itself is pretty chaotic and finding information is almost Sisyphean task. Everybody recognises this.
>> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> The changes happening in development on Github were not manually propagated here to Google groups. Moreover, the links at top are again long obsolete in its step-by-step tutorial value (but the overall explanation and goals are still more or less valid). This is a lot more murky than to say "The site needs replacement" - because Machinekit always recognised the need for the user to be proactive and keep a finger on the pulse of development (and encouraged to do some development themselves). No version of Machinekit (meaning Machinekit organization's project here and in whole text) is production ready in the sense of guaranteeing stable version and high level of support. With the understanding that if somebody wants to or need to, he should produce his own stable branch (with implementing upstream changes as he sees fit). That was the status quo for companies using Machinekit in their commercial offerings.
>> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> However, the community forum is good for something like user issue sharing, basic supporting questions and proud presentations of own use of Machinekit. Just people should not forget that there is also the Github issue tracker specific to each project used for developer talk (which does not mean that only developers or contributors can comment on presented issues).
>> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> This out of the way, let's talk about how to reinvigorate the Machinekit community (because otherwise all this is useless). The website with repository README page are first point of contacts with new users. Usually what I need to know about new OSS is WHAT is it, WHY does it exist, HOW can I use it and WHEN should I use it.
>> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> Current status of Machinekit site did not change much from the time Machinekit was forked. It is Jekyll based site with own theme build from Machinekit-docs repository with use of Github Actions service and deployed to >> >> >> >> >> Machinekit.github.io <http://Machinekit.github.io>>> <>> http://Machinekit.github.io>> >>> <>> >> http://Machinekit.github.io>> >> >>> <>> >> >> http://Machinekit.github.io>> >> >> >>> <>> >> >> >> http://Machinekit.github.io>> >> >> >> >>> repository as Github Pages. I think this is a nice setup. (Not the Jekyll part, I don't care if Hugo, Gridsome, Docusaurus or whatever else is used, but the fact that it is basically static site which can be hosted pretty much anywhere and quickly replicated in case of problem by anybody.) The build is based on a very precarious Docker image (which is based on Debian Jessie and cannot be rebuilt anymore). And some parts are broken and no longer building. In other word, bad.
>> >> >> >> I would say the biggest problem is the fact that the site still presumes (and gives the impression) that Machinekit is monorepo. It does not differentiate between Machinekit-HAL, MKSoCFPGA, EMCApplication, HAL_ROS_control (when I include the Zultron's project) and other parts.
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> And I hope many ideas are not BBB related. I would hate if people thought that Machinekit is BeagleBone only endeavour.
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> > I just like motor work, the use of motors, and to mfg. new machines when I can to promote the ideas behind it all. Finding open minds is not easy. People would rather pay for a Arduino w/ a cheap daughter card so that they can put GRBL or Marlin on it. Machinekit is not the same and is highly configurable. This is what I think is nice about the entire set up you guys have in the CNC world.
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> Well, to be fair, there is a tonnage of interesting ideas in the Arduino world. If it all can be somehow interconnected or reused, the better. In terms of better documentation, getting up some page comparing Arduino products to Machinekit et al. is source of tension than a helpful tool in the long run.
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> Cern.
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> > But, like my old posts in the field, I say a Cape for the BBB or BBAI would be neat.
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> > Well, it is late and I have not tested much recently. I just got trying to handle interrupts on some Python3 source via the Motor Bridge Cape, the BBGG, and some other source. Testing will ensue!
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> > Seth
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> > P.S. Nothing is final. Things evolve, people take specific routes, and stuff stays the same. MachineKit!
>> >> >> >> > On Monday, November 30, 2020 at 12:54:09 PM UTC-6 >> >> >> >> ce...@tuta.io <>>> <>>> <>>> <>>> wrote:
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> >> The was discussion about this problem in the Machinekit chat room. The truth is that the community support in Machinekit is and was not good (being tactful) and with changes in development it only got worse.
>> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> The documentation is bad and obsolete, the site itself is pretty chaotic and finding information is almost Sisyphean task. Everybody recognises this.
>> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> The changes happening in development on Github were not manually propagated here to Google groups. Moreover, the links at top are again long obsolete in its step-by-step tutorial value (but the overall explanation and goals are still more or less valid). This is a lot more murky than to say "The site needs replacement" - because Machinekit always recognised the need for the user to be proactive and keep a finger on the pulse of development (and encouraged to do some development themselves). No version of Machinekit (meaning Machinekit organization's project here and in whole text) is production ready in the sense of guaranteeing stable version and high level of support. With the understanding that if somebody wants to or need to, he should produce his own stable branch (with implementing upstream changes as he sees fit). That was the status quo for companies using Machinekit in their commercial offerings.
>> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> However, the community forum is good for something like user issue sharing, basic supporting questions and proud presentations of own use of Machinekit. Just people should not forget that there is also the Github issue tracker specific to each project used for developer talk (which does not mean that only developers or contributors can comment on presented issues).
>> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> This out of the way, let's talk about how to reinvigorate the Machinekit community (because otherwise all this is useless). The website with repository README page are first point of contacts with new users. Usually what I need to know about new OSS is WHAT is it, WHY does it exist, HOW can I use it and WHEN should I use it.
>> >> >> >> >>
>
ce...@tuta.io
Dec 30, 2020, 1:14:07 PM12/30/20
to Mala Dies, Machinekit
Hello,
Dec 29, 2020, 03:04 by fun...@gmail.com:
> Sir,
>
> Also...are you (we) trying to move away from Jekll and markdown? If so, I should not waste my time in markdown for now.
>
I think the Hugo looks nice, but I wouldn't say that move away from Jekyll is a must. I have been looking more at what has nice free templates I could use with minimal changes and that was funnelling my search, not the backend engine.
(For example I have been looking at https://github.com/nekocode/codelabs-hugo-theme and https://github.com/nekocode/codelabs-hugo-theme or https://github.com/samuelhorn/jamdocs or https://github.com/jeblister/kube .)
And I think Markdown and ASCIIDoc are nice, but don't have any particular attachment to any of them. Do you think there is something better what could be used?
>
> ...
>
> Seth
>
> P.S. I have found that there are some other items out there like what you described, the CodeLabs and some others, that can help me help you help me help others. Phew. That was difficult to type out.
>
It was just something I found a little while ago when I was investigating how to make the documentation better. I am not married to this idea, just seemed interesting at the time.
Any help welcome!
Cern.
>> >> >> >> > There is no pressure from me. I can learn from the >> >> >> >> machinekit.io <http://machinekit.io>>> <>> http://machinekit.io>> >>> <>> >> http://machinekit.io>> >> >>> <>> >> >> http://machinekit.io>> >> >> >>> site like I have been doing. But after a bit of spending time on the site, it is an actually large database. It is easy to use and dedicated to instruction. This is nice.
> To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/machinekit/9b5ae1ba-294a-4658-bc8e-2d4c45605cc7n%40googlegroups.com <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/machinekit/9b5ae1ba-294a-4658-bc8e-2d4c45605cc7n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>> .
>
Dec 29, 2020, 03:04 by fun...@gmail.com:
> Sir,
>
> Also...are you (we) trying to move away from Jekll and markdown? If so, I should not waste my time in markdown for now.
>
(For example I have been looking at https://github.com/nekocode/codelabs-hugo-theme and https://github.com/nekocode/codelabs-hugo-theme or https://github.com/samuelhorn/jamdocs or https://github.com/jeblister/kube .)
And I think Markdown and ASCIIDoc are nice, but don't have any particular attachment to any of them. Do you think there is something better what could be used?
>
> ...
>
> Seth
>
> P.S. I have found that there are some other items out there like what you described, the CodeLabs and some others, that can help me help you help me help others. Phew. That was difficult to type out.
>
Any help welcome!
Cern.
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> Most people who I talked about the site said to me that it is chaotic, the tree structure doesn't make sense and finding anything even with a search engine is Herculean task. It is interesting that you find the site fine and definitely something which needs to be taken into consideration.
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> > I say keep it or are you guys going to rearrange things a bit? I ask b/c some of the ideas are not BBB.io related. I am not affiliated w/ the >> >> >> >> beagleboard.org <http://beagleboard.org>>> <>> http://beagleboard.org>> >>> <>> >> http://beagleboard.org>> >> >>> <>> >> >> http://beagleboard.org>> >> >> >>> people but I enjoy using their boards for learning Linux based initiatives.
>> >> >> >> Most people who I talked about the site said to me that it is chaotic, the tree structure doesn't make sense and finding anything even with a search engine is Herculean task. It is interesting that you find the site fine and definitely something which needs to be taken into consideration.
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> I would say the biggest problem is the fact that the site still presumes (and gives the impression) that Machinekit is monorepo. It does not differentiate between Machinekit-HAL, MKSoCFPGA, EMCApplication, HAL_ROS_control (when I include the Zultron's project) and other parts.
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> And I hope many ideas are not BBB related. I would hate if people thought that Machinekit is BeagleBone only endeavour.
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> > I just like motor work, the use of motors, and to mfg. new machines when I can to promote the ideas behind it all. Finding open minds is not easy. People would rather pay for a Arduino w/ a cheap daughter card so that they can put GRBL or Marlin on it. Machinekit is not the same and is highly configurable. This is what I think is nice about the entire set up you guys have in the CNC world.
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> Well, to be fair, there is a tonnage of interesting ideas in the Arduino world. If it all can be somehow interconnected or reused, the better. In terms of better documentation, getting up some page comparing Arduino products to Machinekit et al. is source of tension than a helpful tool in the long run.
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> Cern.
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> > But, like my old posts in the field, I say a Cape for the BBB or BBAI would be neat.
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> > Well, it is late and I have not tested much recently. I just got trying to handle interrupts on some Python3 source via the Motor Bridge Cape, the BBGG, and some other source. Testing will ensue!
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> > Seth
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> > P.S. Nothing is final. Things evolve, people take specific routes, and stuff stays the same. MachineKit!
>> >> >> >> > On Monday, November 30, 2020 at 12:54:09 PM UTC-6 >> >> >> >> ce...@tuta.io <>>> <>>> <>>> <>>> wrote:
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> >> The was discussion about this problem in the Machinekit chat room. The truth is that the community support in Machinekit is and was not good (being tactful) and with changes in development it only got worse.
>> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> The documentation is bad and obsolete, the site itself is pretty chaotic and finding information is almost Sisyphean task. Everybody recognises this.
>> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> The changes happening in development on Github were not manually propagated here to Google groups. Moreover, the links at top are again long obsolete in its step-by-step tutorial value (but the overall explanation and goals are still more or less valid). This is a lot more murky than to say "The site needs replacement" - because Machinekit always recognised the need for the user to be proactive and keep a finger on the pulse of development (and encouraged to do some development themselves). No version of Machinekit (meaning Machinekit organization's project here and in whole text) is production ready in the sense of guaranteeing stable version and high level of support. With the understanding that if somebody wants to or need to, he should produce his own stable branch (with implementing upstream changes as he sees fit). That was the status quo for companies using Machinekit in their commercial offerings.
>> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> However, the community forum is good for something like user issue sharing, basic supporting questions and proud presentations of own use of Machinekit. Just people should not forget that there is also the Github issue tracker specific to each project used for developer talk (which does not mean that only developers or contributors can comment on presented issues).
>> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> This out of the way, let's talk about how to reinvigorate the Machinekit community (because otherwise all this is useless). The website with repository README page are first point of contacts with new users. Usually what I need to know about new OSS is WHAT is it, WHY does it exist, HOW can I use it and WHEN should I use it.
>> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> Current status of Machinekit site did not change much from the time Machinekit was forked. It is Jekyll based site with own theme build from Machinekit-docs repository with use of Github Actions service and deployed to >> >> >> >> >> Machinekit.github.io <http://Machinekit.github.io>>> <>> http://Machinekit.github.io>> >>> <>> >> http://Machinekit.github.io>> >> >>> <>> >> >> http://Machinekit.github.io>> >> >> >>> <>> >> >> >> http://Machinekit.github.io>> >> >> >> >>> repository as Github Pages. I think this is a nice setup. (Not the Jekyll part, I don't care if Hugo, Gridsome, Docusaurus or whatever else is used, but the fact that it is basically static site which can be hosted pretty much anywhere and quickly replicated in case of problem by anybody.) The build is based on a very precarious Docker image (which is based on Debian Jessie and cannot be rebuilt anymore). And some parts are broken and no longer building. In other word, bad.
>> >> >> >> I would say the biggest problem is the fact that the site still presumes (and gives the impression) that Machinekit is monorepo. It does not differentiate between Machinekit-HAL, MKSoCFPGA, EMCApplication, HAL_ROS_control (when I include the Zultron's project) and other parts.
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> And I hope many ideas are not BBB related. I would hate if people thought that Machinekit is BeagleBone only endeavour.
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> > I just like motor work, the use of motors, and to mfg. new machines when I can to promote the ideas behind it all. Finding open minds is not easy. People would rather pay for a Arduino w/ a cheap daughter card so that they can put GRBL or Marlin on it. Machinekit is not the same and is highly configurable. This is what I think is nice about the entire set up you guys have in the CNC world.
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> Well, to be fair, there is a tonnage of interesting ideas in the Arduino world. If it all can be somehow interconnected or reused, the better. In terms of better documentation, getting up some page comparing Arduino products to Machinekit et al. is source of tension than a helpful tool in the long run.
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> Cern.
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> > But, like my old posts in the field, I say a Cape for the BBB or BBAI would be neat.
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> > Well, it is late and I have not tested much recently. I just got trying to handle interrupts on some Python3 source via the Motor Bridge Cape, the BBGG, and some other source. Testing will ensue!
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> > Seth
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> > P.S. Nothing is final. Things evolve, people take specific routes, and stuff stays the same. MachineKit!
>> >> >> >> > On Monday, November 30, 2020 at 12:54:09 PM UTC-6 >> >> >> >> ce...@tuta.io <>>> <>>> <>>> <>>> wrote:
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> >> The was discussion about this problem in the Machinekit chat room. The truth is that the community support in Machinekit is and was not good (being tactful) and with changes in development it only got worse.
>> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> The documentation is bad and obsolete, the site itself is pretty chaotic and finding information is almost Sisyphean task. Everybody recognises this.
>> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> The changes happening in development on Github were not manually propagated here to Google groups. Moreover, the links at top are again long obsolete in its step-by-step tutorial value (but the overall explanation and goals are still more or less valid). This is a lot more murky than to say "The site needs replacement" - because Machinekit always recognised the need for the user to be proactive and keep a finger on the pulse of development (and encouraged to do some development themselves). No version of Machinekit (meaning Machinekit organization's project here and in whole text) is production ready in the sense of guaranteeing stable version and high level of support. With the understanding that if somebody wants to or need to, he should produce his own stable branch (with implementing upstream changes as he sees fit). That was the status quo for companies using Machinekit in their commercial offerings.
>> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> However, the community forum is good for something like user issue sharing, basic supporting questions and proud presentations of own use of Machinekit. Just people should not forget that there is also the Github issue tracker specific to each project used for developer talk (which does not mean that only developers or contributors can comment on presented issues).
>> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> This out of the way, let's talk about how to reinvigorate the Machinekit community (because otherwise all this is useless). The website with repository README page are first point of contacts with new users. Usually what I need to know about new OSS is WHAT is it, WHY does it exist, HOW can I use it and WHEN should I use it.
>> >> >> >> >>
>
Mala Dies
Dec 30, 2020, 2:57:48 PM12/30/20
to Machinekit
Hello,
Okay...I will attempt to make things work w/ my set up, post the relevant info, and add some context w/ markdown. Markdown seems to be the going glory for now.
Seth
P.S. It may be a bit b/c of the time of the season but I am messing w/ some motors and I am learning. So, updates on the way w/ Machinekit.io. But, just to keep in mind, this set up will be w/ the BBB for now. I can try other boards and PCs in time.
Mala Dies
Jan 25, 2021, 11:46:04 PM1/25/21
to Machinekit
Hello,
I know what I said and I know I have failed so far. Excuse me, I will keep attempting ideas. My power source is on another planet or something. I am still waiting for it.
...
So, Jekyll is out. Okay. If the site cannot be done via stretch any longer and has to be rebuilt on another machine, from what I understand, Docker is "precarious." I started some "fancy" coding in html5 and w/out using JavaScript.
...
I host my sites for controlling some bots via a server, some html5, css, and a BBB. I used bind9, virtual hosts, a soon to enable cgi-script(s), and I have a long time to go. New year, new issues!
What is the current standing so far w/ Machinekit.io and "whatever" source needs to be used to duplicate the site. I do not use DBs much. So, replication is still copy and paste over here.
I am not sure I know exactly my part so far, i.e. outside of promoting findings w/ a BBB/BBAI and other board(s).
Has anyone used the replicape for handling Machinekit.io ideas? So, here is a screenshot of my page online for now. Not fancy, one or two lines only, and no machinekit stuff yet. I am still waiting of the power supply stuff.
I will test the machinekit.io source w/ the replicape and a BBB. I will also stop transmissions w/out production on my part.
I know I am getting repetitive. Anyway, I hope everyone is doing well in the new year (as well as things can be).
Seth
P.S. The above snapshot is just a site w/ HTML5. If anyone is working w/ DBs and wants to, from what I am understanding, control the machinekit.io pages w/ a change or two (many), jump in. Blah! I will get more productive soon.
Mala Dies
Feb 5, 2021, 9:16:18 PM2/5/21
to Machinekit
Hello...
Okay. So, the PSU will be here soon. It seems this has put a damper in my handling of the MachineKit source and usage. Anyway, I will be posting soon to show and tell soon.
Seth
P.S. If you all are still interested in me making things works for beginners like me w/ Machinekit, okay. Good...I will wait for the PSU to arrive and then cracking.
ce...@tuta.io
Feb 7, 2021, 8:32:42 PM2/7/21
to Mala Dies, Machinekit
Hi,
Jan 26, 2021, 05:46 by fun...@gmail.com:
> Hello,
>
> I know what I said and I know I have failed so far. Excuse me, I will keep attempting ideas. My power source is on another planet or something. I am still waiting for it.
>
> ...
>
> So, Jekyll is out. Okay. If the site cannot be done via stretch any longer and has to be rebuilt on another machine, from what I understand, Docker is "precarious." I started some "fancy" coding in html5 and w/out using JavaScript.
>
The current Docker image which contains the main build logic is only precarious because it is based on Debian Jessie or Wheezy, both of which are currently obsolete, and as such cannot be just build again. To make it buildable again (and more robust at the same time), one would need to do the maintenance work and update all to current versions.
Moreover, the building process was originally happening on private hardware behind closed doors. And not all the logic could be simply ported to the public cloud as it is now. (It is bit convoluted.)
>
> ...
>
> I host my sites for controlling some bots via a server, some html5, css, and a BBB. I used bind9, virtual hosts, a soon to enable cgi-script(s), and I have a long time to go. New year, new issues!
>
> What is the current standing so far w/ Machinekit.io and "whatever" source needs to be used to duplicate the site. I do not use DBs much. So, replication is still copy and paste over here.
>
The current state is that the Machinekit site is hosted on Github Pages - it is redirect to machinekit.github.io, so everything is stored in the github.com/machinekit/machinekit.github.io <http://github.com/machinekit/machinekit.github.io> repository. But it is a bit more complicated, the site itself is stored in github.com/machinekit/machinekit-docs <http://github.com/machinekit/machinekit.github.io> or at least the recipe for it is. From this repository on each merge the Jekyll pipeline runs and builds the output which is then stored in machinekit.github.io.
The relevant commands are in:
https://github.com/machinekit/machinekit.github.io/blob/master/.github/workflows/build-on-ping.yaml
and
https://github.com/machinekit/machinekit-docs/blob/master/.github/workflows/ping-remote-repository.yaml
My personal opinion is that the site should stay on public and reproducible hosting solution and should use public and reproducible tools - that way if the author leaves or looses interest, the code and logic is all there and can maintained by somebody else intereted.
Cern.
>
> I am not sure I know exactly my part so far, i.e. outside of promoting findings w/ a BBB/BBAI and other board(s).
>
> Has anyone used the replicape for handling Machinekit.io ideas? So, here is a screenshot of my page online for now. Not fancy, one or two lines only, and no machinekit stuff yet. I am still waiting of the power supply stuff.
>
> I will test the machinekit.io source w/ the replicape and a BBB. I will also stop transmissions w/out production on my part.
>
> I know I am getting repetitive. Anyway, I hope everyone is doing well in the new year (as well as things can be).
>
>
>
>
>> >> >> >> >> > There is no pressure from me. I can learn from the >> >> >> >> >> machinekit.io <http://machinekit.io>>> <>> http://machinekit.io>> >>> <>> >> http://machinekit.io>> >> >>> <>> >> >> http://machinekit.io>> >> >> >>> <>> >> >> >> http://machinekit.io>> >> >> >> >>> site like I have been doing. But after a bit of spending time on the site, it is an actually large database. It is easy to use and dedicated to instruction. This is nice.
> To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/machinekit/a5ecefaf-8081-45cf-9200-600fd1780b70n%40googlegroups.com <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/machinekit/a5ecefaf-8081-45cf-9200-600fd1780b70n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>> .
>
Jan 26, 2021, 05:46 by fun...@gmail.com:
> Hello,
>
> I know what I said and I know I have failed so far. Excuse me, I will keep attempting ideas. My power source is on another planet or something. I am still waiting for it.
>
> ...
>
> So, Jekyll is out. Okay. If the site cannot be done via stretch any longer and has to be rebuilt on another machine, from what I understand, Docker is "precarious." I started some "fancy" coding in html5 and w/out using JavaScript.
>
Moreover, the building process was originally happening on private hardware behind closed doors. And not all the logic could be simply ported to the public cloud as it is now. (It is bit convoluted.)
>
> ...
>
> I host my sites for controlling some bots via a server, some html5, css, and a BBB. I used bind9, virtual hosts, a soon to enable cgi-script(s), and I have a long time to go. New year, new issues!
>
> What is the current standing so far w/ Machinekit.io and "whatever" source needs to be used to duplicate the site. I do not use DBs much. So, replication is still copy and paste over here.
>
The relevant commands are in:
https://github.com/machinekit/machinekit.github.io/blob/master/.github/workflows/build-on-ping.yaml
and
https://github.com/machinekit/machinekit-docs/blob/master/.github/workflows/ping-remote-repository.yaml
My personal opinion is that the site should stay on public and reproducible hosting solution and should use public and reproducible tools - that way if the author leaves or looses interest, the code and logic is all there and can maintained by somebody else intereted.
Cern.
>
> I am not sure I know exactly my part so far, i.e. outside of promoting findings w/ a BBB/BBAI and other board(s).
>
> Has anyone used the replicape for handling Machinekit.io ideas? So, here is a screenshot of my page online for now. Not fancy, one or two lines only, and no machinekit stuff yet. I am still waiting of the power supply stuff.
>
> I will test the machinekit.io source w/ the replicape and a BBB. I will also stop transmissions w/out production on my part.
>
> I know I am getting repetitive. Anyway, I hope everyone is doing well in the new year (as well as things can be).
>
>
>
>
>> >> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> >> Most people who I talked about the site said to me that it is chaotic, the tree structure doesn't make sense and finding anything even with a search engine is Herculean task. It is interesting that you find the site fine and definitely something which needs to be taken into consideration.
>> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> >> > I say keep it or are you guys going to rearrange things a bit? I ask b/c some of the ideas are not BBB.io related. I am not affiliated w/ the >> >> >> >> >> beagleboard.org <http://beagleboard.org>>> <>> http://beagleboard.org>> >>> <>> >> http://beagleboard.org>> >> >>> <>> >> >> http://beagleboard.org>> >> >> >>> <>> >> >> >> http://beagleboard.org>> >> >> >> >>> people but I enjoy using their boards for learning Linux based initiatives.
>> >> >> >> >> Most people who I talked about the site said to me that it is chaotic, the tree structure doesn't make sense and finding anything even with a search engine is Herculean task. It is interesting that you find the site fine and definitely something which needs to be taken into consideration.
>> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> >> I would say the biggest problem is the fact that the site still presumes (and gives the impression) that Machinekit is monorepo. It does not differentiate between Machinekit-HAL, MKSoCFPGA, EMCApplication, HAL_ROS_control (when I include the Zultron's project) and other parts.
>> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> And I hope many ideas are not BBB related. I would hate if people thought that Machinekit is BeagleBone only endeavour.
>> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> >> > I just like motor work, the use of motors, and to mfg. new machines when I can to promote the ideas behind it all. Finding open minds is not easy. People would rather pay for a Arduino w/ a cheap daughter card so that they can put GRBL or Marlin on it. Machinekit is not the same and is highly configurable. This is what I think is nice about the entire set up you guys have in the CNC world.
>> >> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> >> Well, to be fair, there is a tonnage of interesting ideas in the Arduino world. If it all can be somehow interconnected or reused, the better. In terms of better documentation, getting up some page comparing Arduino products to Machinekit et al. is source of tension than a helpful tool in the long run.
>> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> Cern.
>> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> >> > But, like my old posts in the field, I say a Cape for the BBB or BBAI would be neat.
>> >> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> >> > Well, it is late and I have not tested much recently. I just got trying to handle interrupts on some Python3 source via the Motor Bridge Cape, the BBGG, and some other source. Testing will ensue!
>> >> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> >> > Seth
>> >> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> >> > P.S. Nothing is final. Things evolve, people take specific routes, and stuff stays the same. MachineKit!
>> >> >> >> >> > On Monday, November 30, 2020 at 12:54:09 PM UTC-6 >> >> >> >> >> ce...@tuta.io <>>> <>>> <>>> <>>> <>>> wrote:
>> >> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> >> >> The was discussion about this problem in the Machinekit chat room. The truth is that the community support in Machinekit is and was not good (being tactful) and with changes in development it only got worse.
>> >> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> >> The documentation is bad and obsolete, the site itself is pretty chaotic and finding information is almost Sisyphean task. Everybody recognises this.
>> >> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> >> The changes happening in development on Github were not manually propagated here to Google groups. Moreover, the links at top are again long obsolete in its step-by-step tutorial value (but the overall explanation and goals are still more or less valid). This is a lot more murky than to say "The site needs replacement" - because Machinekit always recognised the need for the user to be proactive and keep a finger on the pulse of development (and encouraged to do some development themselves). No version of Machinekit (meaning Machinekit organization's project here and in whole text) is production ready in the sense of guaranteeing stable version and high level of support. With the understanding that if somebody wants to or need to, he should produce his own stable branch (with implementing upstream changes as he sees fit). That was the status quo for companies using Machinekit in their commercial offerings.
>> >> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> >> However, the community forum is good for something like user issue sharing, basic supporting questions and proud presentations of own use of Machinekit. Just people should not forget that there is also the Github issue tracker specific to each project used for developer talk (which does not mean that only developers or contributors can comment on presented issues).
>> >> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> >> This out of the way, let's talk about how to reinvigorate the Machinekit community (because otherwise all this is useless). The website with repository README page are first point of contacts with new users. Usually what I need to know about new OSS is WHAT is it, WHY does it exist, HOW can I use it and WHEN should I use it.
>> >> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> >> Current status of Machinekit site did not change much from the time Machinekit was forked. It is Jekyll based site with own theme build from Machinekit-docs repository with use of Github Actions service and deployed to >> >> >> >> >> >> Machinekit.github.io <http://Machinekit.github.io>>> <>> http://Machinekit.github.io>> >>> <>> >> http://Machinekit.github.io>> >> >>> <>> >> >> http://Machinekit.github.io>> >> >> >>> <>> >> >> >> http://Machinekit.github.io>> >> >> >> >>> <>> >> >> >> >> http://Machinekit.github.io>> >> >> >> >> >>> repository as Github Pages. I think this is a nice setup. (Not the Jekyll part, I don't care if Hugo, Gridsome, Docusaurus or whatever else is used, but the fact that it is basically static site which can be hosted pretty much anywhere and quickly replicated in case of problem by anybody.) The build is based on a very precarious Docker image (which is based on Debian Jessie and cannot be rebuilt anymore). And some parts are broken and no longer building. In other word, bad.
>> >> >> >> >> I would say the biggest problem is the fact that the site still presumes (and gives the impression) that Machinekit is monorepo. It does not differentiate between Machinekit-HAL, MKSoCFPGA, EMCApplication, HAL_ROS_control (when I include the Zultron's project) and other parts.
>> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> And I hope many ideas are not BBB related. I would hate if people thought that Machinekit is BeagleBone only endeavour.
>> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> >> > I just like motor work, the use of motors, and to mfg. new machines when I can to promote the ideas behind it all. Finding open minds is not easy. People would rather pay for a Arduino w/ a cheap daughter card so that they can put GRBL or Marlin on it. Machinekit is not the same and is highly configurable. This is what I think is nice about the entire set up you guys have in the CNC world.
>> >> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> >> Well, to be fair, there is a tonnage of interesting ideas in the Arduino world. If it all can be somehow interconnected or reused, the better. In terms of better documentation, getting up some page comparing Arduino products to Machinekit et al. is source of tension than a helpful tool in the long run.
>> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> Cern.
>> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> >> > But, like my old posts in the field, I say a Cape for the BBB or BBAI would be neat.
>> >> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> >> > Well, it is late and I have not tested much recently. I just got trying to handle interrupts on some Python3 source via the Motor Bridge Cape, the BBGG, and some other source. Testing will ensue!
>> >> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> >> > Seth
>> >> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> >> > P.S. Nothing is final. Things evolve, people take specific routes, and stuff stays the same. MachineKit!
>> >> >> >> >> > On Monday, November 30, 2020 at 12:54:09 PM UTC-6 >> >> >> >> >> ce...@tuta.io <>>> <>>> <>>> <>>> <>>> wrote:
>> >> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> >> >> The was discussion about this problem in the Machinekit chat room. The truth is that the community support in Machinekit is and was not good (being tactful) and with changes in development it only got worse.
>> >> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> >> The documentation is bad and obsolete, the site itself is pretty chaotic and finding information is almost Sisyphean task. Everybody recognises this.
>> >> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> >> The changes happening in development on Github were not manually propagated here to Google groups. Moreover, the links at top are again long obsolete in its step-by-step tutorial value (but the overall explanation and goals are still more or less valid). This is a lot more murky than to say "The site needs replacement" - because Machinekit always recognised the need for the user to be proactive and keep a finger on the pulse of development (and encouraged to do some development themselves). No version of Machinekit (meaning Machinekit organization's project here and in whole text) is production ready in the sense of guaranteeing stable version and high level of support. With the understanding that if somebody wants to or need to, he should produce his own stable branch (with implementing upstream changes as he sees fit). That was the status quo for companies using Machinekit in their commercial offerings.
>> >> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> >> However, the community forum is good for something like user issue sharing, basic supporting questions and proud presentations of own use of Machinekit. Just people should not forget that there is also the Github issue tracker specific to each project used for developer talk (which does not mean that only developers or contributors can comment on presented issues).
>> >> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> >> This out of the way, let's talk about how to reinvigorate the Machinekit community (because otherwise all this is useless). The website with repository README page are first point of contacts with new users. Usually what I need to know about new OSS is WHAT is it, WHY does it exist, HOW can I use it and WHEN should I use it.
>> >> >> >> >> >>
>
ce...@tuta.io
Feb 8, 2021, 4:47:19 PM2/8/21
to Mala Dies, Machinekit
Hi,
Feb 6, 2021, 03:16 by fun...@gmail.com:
> Hello...
>
> Okay. So, the PSU will be here soon. It seems this has put a damper in my handling of the MachineKit source and usage. Anyway, I will be posting soon to show and tell soon.
>
> Seth
>
> P.S. If you all are still interested in me making things works for beginners like me w/ Machinekit, okay. Good...I will wait for the PSU to arrive and then cracking.
>
Of course, I am still interested in your write-ups and HOWTOs. It's the best way how to learn to just look somebody else over his shoulders.
Cern.
> On Monday, January 25, 2021 at 10:46:04 PM UTC-6 Mala Dies wrote:
>
>>
>> P.S. The above snapshot is just a site w/ HTML5. If anyone is working w/ DBs and wants to, from what I am understanding, control the >> machinekit.io <http://machinekit.io>>> pages w/ a change or two (many), jump in. Blah! I will get more productive soon.
>>> >> >> >> >> > There is no pressure from me. I can learn from the >> >> >> >> >>> machinekit.io <http://machinekit.io>>>> <>>> http://machinekit.io>>> >>> <>> >>> http://machinekit.io>>> >> >>> <>> >> >>> http://machinekit.io>>> >> >> >>> <>> >> >> >>> http://machinekit.io>>> >> >> >> >>> site like I have been doing. But after a bit of spending time on the site, it is an actually large database. It is easy to use and dedicated to instruction. This is nice.
> To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/machinekit/95bc8cd5-4c04-4d23-9dca-72d0856ffbb2n%40googlegroups.com <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/machinekit/95bc8cd5-4c04-4d23-9dca-72d0856ffbb2n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>> .
>
Feb 6, 2021, 03:16 by fun...@gmail.com:
> Hello...
>
> Okay. So, the PSU will be here soon. It seems this has put a damper in my handling of the MachineKit source and usage. Anyway, I will be posting soon to show and tell soon.
>
> Seth
>
> P.S. If you all are still interested in me making things works for beginners like me w/ Machinekit, okay. Good...I will wait for the PSU to arrive and then cracking.
>
Cern.
> On Monday, January 25, 2021 at 10:46:04 PM UTC-6 Mala Dies wrote:
>
>> Hello,
>>
>> I know what I said and I know I have failed so far. Excuse me, I will keep attempting ideas. My power source is on another planet or something. I am still waiting for it.
>>
>> ...
>>
>> So, Jekyll is out. Okay. If the site cannot be done via stretch any longer and has to be rebuilt on another machine, from what I understand, Docker is "precarious." I started some "fancy" coding in html5 and w/out using JavaScript.
>>
>> ...
>>
>> I host my sites for controlling some bots via a server, some html5, css, and a BBB. I used bind9, virtual hosts, a soon to enable cgi-script(s), and I have a long time to go. New year, new issues!
>>
>> What is the current standing so far w/ Machinekit.io and "whatever" source needs to be used to duplicate the site. I do not use DBs much. So, replication is still copy and paste over here.
>>
>> I am not sure I know exactly my part so far, i.e. outside of promoting findings w/ a BBB/BBAI and other board(s).
>>
>> Has anyone used the replicape for handling Machinekit.io ideas? So, here is a screenshot of my page online for now. Not fancy, one or two lines only, and no machinekit stuff yet. I am still waiting of the power supply stuff.
>>
>> I will test the >> machinekit.io <http://machinekit.io>>> source w/ the replicape and a BBB. I will also stop transmissions w/out production on my part.
>>
>> I know what I said and I know I have failed so far. Excuse me, I will keep attempting ideas. My power source is on another planet or something. I am still waiting for it.
>>
>> ...
>>
>> So, Jekyll is out. Okay. If the site cannot be done via stretch any longer and has to be rebuilt on another machine, from what I understand, Docker is "precarious." I started some "fancy" coding in html5 and w/out using JavaScript.
>>
>> ...
>>
>> I host my sites for controlling some bots via a server, some html5, css, and a BBB. I used bind9, virtual hosts, a soon to enable cgi-script(s), and I have a long time to go. New year, new issues!
>>
>> What is the current standing so far w/ Machinekit.io and "whatever" source needs to be used to duplicate the site. I do not use DBs much. So, replication is still copy and paste over here.
>>
>> I am not sure I know exactly my part so far, i.e. outside of promoting findings w/ a BBB/BBAI and other board(s).
>>
>> Has anyone used the replicape for handling Machinekit.io ideas? So, here is a screenshot of my page online for now. Not fancy, one or two lines only, and no machinekit stuff yet. I am still waiting of the power supply stuff.
>>
>>
>> I know I am getting repetitive. Anyway, I hope everyone is doing well in the new year (as well as things can be).
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Seth
>> I know I am getting repetitive. Anyway, I hope everyone is doing well in the new year (as well as things can be).
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> P.S. The above snapshot is just a site w/ HTML5. If anyone is working w/ DBs and wants to, from what I am understanding, control the >> machinekit.io <http://machinekit.io>>> pages w/ a change or two (many), jump in. Blah! I will get more productive soon.
>>> >> >> >> >> >
>>> >> >> >> >> Most people who I talked about the site said to me that it is chaotic, the tree structure doesn't make sense and finding anything even with a search engine is Herculean task. It is interesting that you find the site fine and definitely something which needs to be taken into consideration.
>>> >> >> >> >>
>>> >> >> >> >> >
>>> >> >> >> >> > I say keep it or are you guys going to rearrange things a bit? I ask b/c some of the ideas are not BBB.io related. I am not affiliated w/ the >> >> >> >> >>> beagleboard.org <http://beagleboard.org>>>> <>>> http://beagleboard.org>>> >>> <>> >>> http://beagleboard.org>>> >> >>> <>> >> >>> http://beagleboard.org>>> >> >> >>> <>> >> >> >>> http://beagleboard.org>>> >> >> >> >>> people but I enjoy using their boards for learning Linux based initiatives.
>>> >> >> >> >> Most people who I talked about the site said to me that it is chaotic, the tree structure doesn't make sense and finding anything even with a search engine is Herculean task. It is interesting that you find the site fine and definitely something which needs to be taken into consideration.
>>> >> >> >> >>
>>> >> >> >> >> >
>>> >> >> >> >> >
>>> >> >> >> >> I would say the biggest problem is the fact that the site still presumes (and gives the impression) that Machinekit is monorepo. It does not differentiate between Machinekit-HAL, MKSoCFPGA, EMCApplication, HAL_ROS_control (when I include the Zultron's project) and other parts.
>>> >> >> >> >>
>>> >> >> >> >> And I hope many ideas are not BBB related. I would hate if people thought that Machinekit is BeagleBone only endeavour.
>>> >> >> >> >>
>>> >> >> >> >> >
>>> >> >> >> >> > I just like motor work, the use of motors, and to mfg. new machines when I can to promote the ideas behind it all. Finding open minds is not easy. People would rather pay for a Arduino w/ a cheap daughter card so that they can put GRBL or Marlin on it. Machinekit is not the same and is highly configurable. This is what I think is nice about the entire set up you guys have in the CNC world.
>>> >> >> >> >> >
>>> >> >> >> >> Well, to be fair, there is a tonnage of interesting ideas in the Arduino world. If it all can be somehow interconnected or reused, the better. In terms of better documentation, getting up some page comparing Arduino products to Machinekit et al. is source of tension than a helpful tool in the long run.
>>> >> >> >> >>
>>> >> >> >> >> Cern.
>>> >> >> >> >>
>>> >> >> >> >> >
>>> >> >> >> >> > But, like my old posts in the field, I say a Cape for the BBB or BBAI would be neat.
>>> >> >> >> >> >
>>> >> >> >> >> > Well, it is late and I have not tested much recently. I just got trying to handle interrupts on some Python3 source via the Motor Bridge Cape, the BBGG, and some other source. Testing will ensue!
>>> >> >> >> >> >
>>> >> >> >> >> > Seth
>>> >> >> >> >> >
>>> >> >> >> >> > P.S. Nothing is final. Things evolve, people take specific routes, and stuff stays the same. MachineKit!
>>> >> >> >> >> > On Monday, November 30, 2020 at 12:54:09 PM UTC-6 >> >> >> >> >>> ce...@tuta.io <>>>> <>>> <>>> <>>> <>>> wrote:
>>> >> >> >> >> >
>>> >> >> >> >> >> The was discussion about this problem in the Machinekit chat room. The truth is that the community support in Machinekit is and was not good (being tactful) and with changes in development it only got worse.
>>> >> >> >> >> >>
>>> >> >> >> >> >> The documentation is bad and obsolete, the site itself is pretty chaotic and finding information is almost Sisyphean task. Everybody recognises this.
>>> >> >> >> >> >>
>>> >> >> >> >> >> The changes happening in development on Github were not manually propagated here to Google groups. Moreover, the links at top are again long obsolete in its step-by-step tutorial value (but the overall explanation and goals are still more or less valid). This is a lot more murky than to say "The site needs replacement" - because Machinekit always recognised the need for the user to be proactive and keep a finger on the pulse of development (and encouraged to do some development themselves). No version of Machinekit (meaning Machinekit organization's project here and in whole text) is production ready in the sense of guaranteeing stable version and high level of support. With the understanding that if somebody wants to or need to, he should produce his own stable branch (with implementing upstream changes as he sees fit). That was the status quo for companies using Machinekit in their commercial offerings.
>>> >> >> >> >> >>
>>> >> >> >> >> >> However, the community forum is good for something like user issue sharing, basic supporting questions and proud presentations of own use of Machinekit. Just people should not forget that there is also the Github issue tracker specific to each project used for developer talk (which does not mean that only developers or contributors can comment on presented issues).
>>> >> >> >> >> >>
>>> >> >> >> >> >> This out of the way, let's talk about how to reinvigorate the Machinekit community (because otherwise all this is useless). The website with repository README page are first point of contacts with new users. Usually what I need to know about new OSS is WHAT is it, WHY does it exist, HOW can I use it and WHEN should I use it.
>>> >> >> >> >> >>
>>> >> >> >> >> >> Current status of Machinekit site did not change much from the time Machinekit was forked. It is Jekyll based site with own theme build from Machinekit-docs repository with use of Github Actions service and deployed to >> >> >> >> >> >>> Machinekit.github.io <http://Machinekit.github.io>>>> <>>> http://Machinekit.github.io>>> >>> <>> >>> http://Machinekit.github.io>>> >> >>> <>> >> >>> http://Machinekit.github.io>>> >> >> >>> <>> >> >> >>> http://Machinekit.github.io>>> >> >> >> >>> <>> >> >> >> >>> http://Machinekit.github.io>>> >> >> >> >> >>> repository as Github Pages. I think this is a nice setup. (Not the Jekyll part, I don't care if Hugo, Gridsome, Docusaurus or whatever else is used, but the fact that it is basically static site which can be hosted pretty much anywhere and quickly replicated in case of problem by anybody.) The build is based on a very precarious Docker image (which is based on Debian Jessie and cannot be rebuilt anymore). And some parts are broken and no longer building. In other word, bad.
>>> >> >> >> >> I would say the biggest problem is the fact that the site still presumes (and gives the impression) that Machinekit is monorepo. It does not differentiate between Machinekit-HAL, MKSoCFPGA, EMCApplication, HAL_ROS_control (when I include the Zultron's project) and other parts.
>>> >> >> >> >>
>>> >> >> >> >> And I hope many ideas are not BBB related. I would hate if people thought that Machinekit is BeagleBone only endeavour.
>>> >> >> >> >>
>>> >> >> >> >> >
>>> >> >> >> >> > I just like motor work, the use of motors, and to mfg. new machines when I can to promote the ideas behind it all. Finding open minds is not easy. People would rather pay for a Arduino w/ a cheap daughter card so that they can put GRBL or Marlin on it. Machinekit is not the same and is highly configurable. This is what I think is nice about the entire set up you guys have in the CNC world.
>>> >> >> >> >> >
>>> >> >> >> >> Well, to be fair, there is a tonnage of interesting ideas in the Arduino world. If it all can be somehow interconnected or reused, the better. In terms of better documentation, getting up some page comparing Arduino products to Machinekit et al. is source of tension than a helpful tool in the long run.
>>> >> >> >> >>
>>> >> >> >> >> Cern.
>>> >> >> >> >>
>>> >> >> >> >> >
>>> >> >> >> >> > But, like my old posts in the field, I say a Cape for the BBB or BBAI would be neat.
>>> >> >> >> >> >
>>> >> >> >> >> > Well, it is late and I have not tested much recently. I just got trying to handle interrupts on some Python3 source via the Motor Bridge Cape, the BBGG, and some other source. Testing will ensue!
>>> >> >> >> >> >
>>> >> >> >> >> > Seth
>>> >> >> >> >> >
>>> >> >> >> >> > P.S. Nothing is final. Things evolve, people take specific routes, and stuff stays the same. MachineKit!
>>> >> >> >> >> > On Monday, November 30, 2020 at 12:54:09 PM UTC-6 >> >> >> >> >>> ce...@tuta.io <>>>> <>>> <>>> <>>> <>>> wrote:
>>> >> >> >> >> >
>>> >> >> >> >> >> The was discussion about this problem in the Machinekit chat room. The truth is that the community support in Machinekit is and was not good (being tactful) and with changes in development it only got worse.
>>> >> >> >> >> >>
>>> >> >> >> >> >> The documentation is bad and obsolete, the site itself is pretty chaotic and finding information is almost Sisyphean task. Everybody recognises this.
>>> >> >> >> >> >>
>>> >> >> >> >> >> The changes happening in development on Github were not manually propagated here to Google groups. Moreover, the links at top are again long obsolete in its step-by-step tutorial value (but the overall explanation and goals are still more or less valid). This is a lot more murky than to say "The site needs replacement" - because Machinekit always recognised the need for the user to be proactive and keep a finger on the pulse of development (and encouraged to do some development themselves). No version of Machinekit (meaning Machinekit organization's project here and in whole text) is production ready in the sense of guaranteeing stable version and high level of support. With the understanding that if somebody wants to or need to, he should produce his own stable branch (with implementing upstream changes as he sees fit). That was the status quo for companies using Machinekit in their commercial offerings.
>>> >> >> >> >> >>
>>> >> >> >> >> >> However, the community forum is good for something like user issue sharing, basic supporting questions and proud presentations of own use of Machinekit. Just people should not forget that there is also the Github issue tracker specific to each project used for developer talk (which does not mean that only developers or contributors can comment on presented issues).
>>> >> >> >> >> >>
>>> >> >> >> >> >> This out of the way, let's talk about how to reinvigorate the Machinekit community (because otherwise all this is useless). The website with repository README page are first point of contacts with new users. Usually what I need to know about new OSS is WHAT is it, WHY does it exist, HOW can I use it and WHEN should I use it.
>>> >> >> >> >> >>
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