Heating control with 0-10v control and zigbee TRV's: Is this possible and reliable?

[Gert Stalpaert]

Hi,

I have a gas heating system with radiators and a central thermostat in the living room. A very common setup here in Belgium.

I want to heat my bath room without having to heat the living room, so I need some zone heating system and get rid of the central thermostat.

I have Loxone switches with build in temperature sensors in all rooms, so these can replace the central thermostat.

Next, I have a heating pump than can be controlled using 0-10V, so i guess my Railduino, having a 0-10 analog output, should be able to control it, right?

Then, I need individual controllable radiotor valves on all 7 radiators.

I don't what to use Loxone radiator valves, as they are quite expensive. I do have Loxberry running with Zigbee2MQTT, so I was thinking to use some cheaper Zigbee TRVs.

Is this feasible and what hardware (TRV) is recommended? 

Does this work reliable or should I stick with dedicated zone heating systems?

Any advice/tips from people having experience with this type of setup would be very welcome. Open to alternatives, but budget should not be too high.

Thanks a lot!

Gert

[George Campbell]

I have no end of problems with zigbee. It is just not reliable enough, and seems to require contast replacement batteries. 

 

My recommendation would be to either use a wired TRV (you can use a valve actuator for a manifold) or bit the bullet and get the decent loxone ones. 

[Gert Stalpaert]

You are probably right about the zigbee valves... 

Would it be an option to use no smart valves at all for the whole house and set all dumb valves all open? Can Loxone manage controlling the 0-10V heating with  no valves?
If that's possible, I have of course only one zone, and I have to warm my bath room together with the living room, like I do now, but Loxone might be smarter regulating the temperatures then a an old 'dumb' thermostat?

[g...@camleyphotographic.com]

Personally, I use actuators controlled by a Denkovi SMARTDEN MQTT device. I have 16 actuators controlling the valves for each radiator on a central manifold.

 

To be clear: these actuators fits straight onto a radiator valve and will replace an existing TRV without any plumbing work.

 

https://www.heatdirect.co.uk/emmeti-230v-actuator-2wire-no.html

 

Prior to the installation of the manifold I controlled each radiator within the room I used the same actuators controlled by as local wireless device. I happened to use a Sonoff Basic flashed with Tasmota, but it could be ANYTHING. Any method of turning on/off a 24v or 240v device within the room will work.

 

Zigbee, in my experience, is just no where as reliable as a wireless/wired network. I tried running a network with 40+ devices and there was always one that was not connecting, or running low on batteries.

 

And the number 1 thing for home automation is reliability. Everything else falls into second place.

 

Best wishes, George

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the Google Groups "Loxone English" group.
To unsubscribe from this topic, visit https://groups.google.com/d/topic/loxone-english/Cg67BVD3xII/unsubscribe.
To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to loxone-englis...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/loxone-english/851c9692-f92a-4c35-978e-ff08c33d9ce2n%40googlegroups.com.

[g...@camleyphotographic.com]

Yes, acutators are either on or off. The heating controller will use PI
(proportional integration) to ensure that there is not an overshoot.
This is built into the loxone heating controllers, which is why you have
to configure the type of heating (eg floor or radiator etc.).

The heating is controlled by loxone. The water flow is controlled by an
actuator. You need a way of connecting loxone to a binary relay. There
are lots of ways of doing this, for example you could use teh expensive
Loxone relay extension. I have suggested that there are two principle
ways of doing this, based on where your actuators are located:
- a central control of he actuators means you can have a single device
with lots of relays. I use a Denkovi SMARTDEN. They have a number of
options available, I chose to operate it by MQTT. Others, might choose
MODBUS or a direct web control
- control at the emmitter. This means you need to have a relay at each
radiator. When I did not have central control I used a small SONOFF
relay box, which was then flashed to Tasmota. I think that the SHELLY
ones are also good, and may allow direct control via a web command

BTW we have a ASHP. This is best operated by having all the radiators
fully open most of the time then modulating the flow temperature.

I did experiment with electronic TRVs (Honeywell ones) but gave up. They
operate by nudging the valve open slightly, which would cause whilsting.
This was years ago and this methiod of control is really not suitable
for an ASHP.

George

PS I added the group to the email, as others might find this thread
useful. Or for people in the future.




On 2022-09-18 21:40, Gert Stalpaert wrote:
> Thank you for your response, George!
>
> So the actuators can only be open or closed (0 or 100%) - no
> in-between values?
>
> Do I understand correctly that the actuator linked in your post is
> switched by a Sonoff and that the Sonoff is controlled by the Denkovi
> MQTT device?
>
> And how do you send your MQTT commands? Can the Denkovi be controlled
> by Loxone directly?
>
> Thanks a lot!
> Gert
>
> On Sunday, 18 September 2022 at 21:43:10 UTC+2

> [1].
>
> Links:
> ------
> [1]
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/loxone-english/851c9692-f92a-4c35-978e-ff08c33d9ce2n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer

[Gert Stalpaert]

Thanks for all your help, George.

For now, I managed to control the gas boiler using a 0-10V analog output. So even without individual room control I should be able to control the boiler right? I will create a separate topic on that.

Gert

[Gert Stalpaert]

FYI, here is how a managed to get it working: https://groups.google.com/g/loxone-english/c/hYFMW8eoxew

I had to add an Intelligent Temperature Controller.

Gert