Making the new Rci P14 laser PSU work ?

[virala...@gmail.com]

Hi, I'm making a new topic here about the wiring of the PSU, following this topic https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/lasersaur/JCjnV9Jnc00 about a water flow error.

I connected the PSU as explained here http://www.lasersaur.com/manual/img/wiring-lasersaur-control.jpg and here too https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-U74lOUteyGw/UzuvmPIxftI/AAAAAAAAAFw/nmtsw2_e8I8/s1600/DIAGRAM-updated.jpg

But I can't get the laser firing at less than 80% (meaning, if in the lasersaur app I ask for less than 80% the laser won't fire, with more than 80% it fires).

The only very short instructions shipped with the PSU aren't perfectly clear and seem to be different from the images above:
"When connecting the control plate, connect the light signal with footer 2(TH) in the case of high power level
        light~emitting, (footer 3(TL) for low power level light~emitting), connect the ground~wire with footer 5 (G) , 
         connect footer 6 (IN)  with power control analog signal, and make short circuit for footer 4(WP)  and 5(G) . "

A part si written in the paper instruction, but not on their website:
"PWM can also be used in footer 6 but the pulse peak is required to reach 5V, and the frequency should be above 20K. When the pulse peak can't reach 5V please rotate the current regulator button clockwise for adjustment. "

So I'm wondering if the images I used are correct, or should I follow the paper instructions ?

Quite stuck here as I  'm not confident enough here to test othe wiring around.

[virala...@gmail.com]

I realy need help here. For the moment I didn't get any answer from reci helping me (just sent again the documentation).

Shal I connect the blue wire to the 6th input (IN) as they say it can be used for PWM ? Is there any risk for the PSU if I connect the wrong wire ?

[virala...@gmail.com]

Finaly, after discussions, we tried the wiring of the PSU documentation:


Le jeudi 19 mai 2016 20:59:58 UTC+2, virala...@gmail.com a écrit :

I realy need help here. For the moment I didn't get any answer from reci helping me (just sent again the documentation):

blue wire on footer 6 (IN) and connect the 5 (G) and 3 (TL) together.
It seems to be working, at least we manage to get very low power on the laser. Now we can calibrate the optics.

So should we modifiy the diagrams for this new PSU or is the other way of conencting it supposed to work ?

[Stefan Hechenberger]

So, I am not entirely sure why you get this behavior. Unfortunately I
don't have this new PSU yet so the following is about how things
generally work. Others in the forum are using the new PSU and might have
more to say about it. Afaik, the only difference that was reported so
far is that the new PSU beeps when you open the door and there is only a
single version for 110V *and* 220V.

I recommend testing the laser PSU independently of the DriveBoard.


Testing the laser
------------------

Wire up a push button and a variable resistor (poti) to the PSU:
- push button to TH and 5V
- poti to 5V, IN, GND (middle pin to IN, others are interchangeable)
- WP to GND

Then make sure the water chiller is connected and running, your eyes are
protected, and the laser is pointed at something safe. Adjust the power
with the poti and then press the push button to fire the laser.



General Laser PSU Info
----------------------

We have some description here:
http://www.lasersaur.com/manual/laser_adjustments

The laser PSU has the following terminal connections. (The new PSU has
the same also on a DB9 port but can be ignored)

| 5V| TH| TL| WP|GND| IN|

The laser PSU has various ways to control the output power. The
logic is like this: TH and TL fire the laser. You can choose if a high
signal or a low signal does this (you only use one of them). The voltage
on IN optionally allows you to cap the output power. Typically 0-5V is
mapped to 0-24mA by the factory. A disconnected IN also produces an
output, typically about 9mA. The trim pot allows for adjustment of this
mapping.


DriveBoard and Control
----------------------

Unlike the test setup the DriveBoard works a bit differently. The power
is set to 100% (5V to IN) and the power is modulated down with a PWM
signal on the TH line. The WP line is used by the DriveBoard to disable
the PSU not just in the case of a water chiller error but for other
errors as well (limit switches, door, etc). For details see the "Safety
Systems" section here http://www.lasersaur.com/manual/driveboard


Hope this helps to clarify things.



---
Stefan Hechenberger
work: http://nortd.com
project: http://lasersaur.com
twitter: @stefanix

On 2016-05-17 11:18, virala...@gmail.com wrote:
> Hi, I'm making a new topic here about the wiring of the PSU, following
> this topic
> https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/lasersaur/JCjnV9Jnc00 about a
> water flow error.
>
> I connected the PSU as explained here
> http://www.lasersaur.com/manual/img/wiring-lasersaur-control.jpg and
> here too
> https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-U74lOUteyGw/UzuvmPIxftI/AAAAAAAAAFw/nmtsw2_e8I8/s1600/DIAGRAM-updated.jpg
>
> But I can't get the laser firing at less than 80% (meaning, if in the
> lasersaur app I ask for less than 80% the laser won't fire, with more
> than 80% it fires).
>

> The only very short instructions [1] shipped with the PSU aren't

> perfectly clear and seem to be different from the images above:
> "When connecting the control plate, connect the light signal with
> footer 2(TH) in the case of high power level
> light~emitting, (footer 3(TL) for low power level
> light~emitting), connect the ground~wire with footer 5 (G) ,
> connect footer 6 (IN) with power control analog signal, and
> make short circuit for footer 4(WP) and 5(G) . "
>
> A part si written in the paper instruction, but not on their website:

> "_PWM can also be used in footer 6 but the pulse peak is required to

> reach 5V, and the frequency should be above 20K. When the pulse peak
> can't reach 5V please rotate the current regulator button clockwise

> for adjustment._ "

>
> So I'm wondering if the images I used are correct, or should I follow
> the paper instructions ?
>
> Quite stuck here as I 'm not confident enough here to test othe
> wiring around.
>

> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> Groups "lasersaur" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send
> an email to lasersaur+...@googlegroups.com.
> To post to this group, send email to lase...@googlegroups.com.
> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/lasersaur.
> To view this discussion on the web visit
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/lasersaur/ef329d7d-3347-4ab9-876c-321b04544fdf%40googlegroups.com
> [2].
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>
>
> Links:
> ------
> [1]
> http://www.recilaser.com/en/productInfo/402880e8462772c90146278243a900d1.htm
> [2]
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/lasersaur/ef329d7d-3347-4ab9-876c-321b04544fdf%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer

[virala...@gmail.com]

Thanks for the answer. I've read through all the documentation you send me already. To be sure I tested the tube without the Driveboard as you suggest. It's working fine, it fires, and I can adjust the power with the poti.

My wonder is why on the PSU documentation they say we should PWM on the IN an the lasersaur is used to do it on the TH ? And as a matter of fact PWM (blue wire) doesn't work well on TH for us (fires only if we set the laser at more than 80%) while PWM on the IN seems to work as expected.

[Stefan Hechenberger]

Can you send me the documentations where it says the PWM should go on
the IN.

Generally speaking, when the PWM is on the TH and IN is set to 100% you
get high-powered bursts. When the PWM is on the IN you get a continuous
low-engergy beam. At least this is true when you operate the laser at
sub-100%. At 100% intensity the two modes should be exactly the same.

In burst mode the PWM needs to have a frequency that is compatible with
the laser PSU. Possibly the new PSU needs different frequency settings
to have a proper response. The PWM is possibly too fast. Altough I am
surprised others with the new PSU haven't reported this. Or did I miss
that?

Having the PWM on IN is a reasonable work-around. You may get a
different cutting performance at lower intensity levels. I would also
expect the tube to go under ionization levels at around 15% intensity.
Would be curious what the lowest is you can go without the beam dropping
out. Maybe that changed also with the new PSUs.

Let me know,

---
Stefan Hechenberger
work: http://nortd.com
project: http://lasersaur.com
twitter: @stefanix

>> http://www.lasersaur.com/manual/laser_adjustments [1]

>> Systems" section here http://www.lasersaur.com/manual/driveboard [2]

>>
>>
>> Hope this helps to clarify things.
>>
>> ---
>> Stefan Hechenberger
>> work: http://nortd.com
>> project: http://lasersaur.com
>> twitter: @stefanix
>>
>> On 2016-05-17 11:18, virala...@gmail.com wrote:
>>> Hi, I'm making a new topic here about the wiring of the PSU,
>> following
>>> this topic

>>> https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/lasersaur/JCjnV9Jnc00 [3]

>> about a
>>> water flow error.
>>>
>>> I connected the PSU as explained here
>>> http://www.lasersaur.com/manual/img/wiring-lasersaur-control.jpg

>> [4] and
>>> here too
>>>
>>
> https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-U74lOUteyGw/UzuvmPIxftI/AAAAAAAAAFw/nmtsw2_e8I8/s1600/DIAGRAM-updated.jpg
>> [5]

>>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/lasersaur [6].

>>
>>> To view this discussion on the web visit
>>>
>>
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/lasersaur/ef329d7d-3347-4ab9-876c-321b04544fdf%40googlegroups.com

>> [7]
>>> [2].
>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout [8].

>>>
>>>
>>> Links:
>>> ------
>>> [1]
>>>
>>
> http://www.recilaser.com/en/productInfo/402880e8462772c90146278243a900d1.htm

>> [9]
>>> [2]
>>>
>>
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/lasersaur/ef329d7d-3347-4ab9-876c-321b04544fdf%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer
>> [10]

>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> Groups "lasersaur" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send
> an email to lasersaur+...@googlegroups.com.
> To post to this group, send email to lase...@googlegroups.com.
> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/lasersaur.
> To view this discussion on the web visit

> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/lasersaur/81f4b13c-e926-4b2a-8566-fae7d320a2ed%40googlegroups.com
> [11].

> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>
>
> Links:
> ------

> [1] http://www.lasersaur.com/manual/laser_adjustments
> [2] http://www.lasersaur.com/manual/driveboard
> [3] https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/lasersaur/JCjnV9Jnc00
> [4] http://www.lasersaur.com/manual/img/wiring-lasersaur-control.jpg
> [5]
> https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-U74lOUteyGw/UzuvmPIxftI/AAAAAAAAAFw/nmtsw2_e8I8/s1600/DIAGRAM-updated.jpg
> [6] https://groups.google.com/group/lasersaur
> [7]
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/lasersaur/ef329d7d-3347-4ab9-876c-321b04544fdf%40googlegroups.com
> [8] https://groups.google.com/d/optout
> [9]
> http://www.recilaser.com/en/productInfo/402880e8462772c90146278243a900d1.htm
> [10]
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/lasersaur/ef329d7d-3347-4ab9-876c-321b04544fdf%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer
> [11]
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/lasersaur/81f4b13c-e926-4b2a-8566-fae7d320a2ed%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer

[virala...@gmail.com]

Thanks for your answer that gives me hope to understand what's going on.
Coletech asked me to send them the values on the PSU when I fire at 80%. I'll post their answer here too.

Here is the paper version I received with the laser (image).

On the PDF they sent me by mail (and on their website which is down at the moment) they have another version without mention of the PWM, I join it too

Le mardi 17 mai 2016 11:18:21 UTC+2, virala...@gmail.com a écrit :

[Jonathan Buford]

One interesting thing is that it says it is not recommended to use high frequency modulation to control the laser, it will shorten the lifetime. What is high frequency in this case?

--

You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lasersaur" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to lasersaur+...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to lase...@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/lasersaur.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/lasersaur/2416621c-b4b9-471c-bcfd-7f3f57939862%40googlegroups.com.

[j. eric townsend]

On 5/26/16 19:56, Jonathan Buford wrote:
> One interesting thing is that it says it is not recommended to use high
> frequency modulation to control the laser, it will shorten the lifetime.
> What is high frequency in this case?

Hm, I wonder if "with power control analog signal" means we should be
driving it with an actual voltage and now a PWM voltage.

--
J. Eric Townsend, IDSA
design <http://www.allartburns.org>
hacking <http://www.flatline.net>
consulting <http://www.functionalprototype.com>

[Jonathan Buford]

That is what I was saying in another thread, I wonder if using a digi-pot to control the voltage would actually work better or at least not stress the power supply as much. There are plenty of ways to do it, not just digi-pots. 

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lasersaur" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to lasersaur+...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to lase...@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/lasersaur.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/lasersaur/c62c7f67-875c-fe1b-222b-966d5a604781%40allartburns.org.

[Steve Baker]

I wonder if sticking a capacitor between the PWM line and the power supply
pin would fix that? With the right capacitor value, you'd get something
closer to an analog signal without adding too much lag to the output.

But the problem here is that we don't have a circuit diagram for the PSU,
so everything has to be deduced from skimpy Chinese-translated manuals.

It's tempting to dismantle an old PSU and trace the circuit out...trouble
for me is that I'm a software/digital-hardware guys - I'm completely
hopeless at analog and power electronics. So even with a circuit diagram,
I'd have no clue what's going on.

-- Steve

> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "lasersaur" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email to lasersaur+...@googlegroups.com.
> To post to this group, send email to lase...@googlegroups.com.
> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/lasersaur.
> To view this discussion on the web visit

> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/lasersaur/c62c7f67-875c-fe1b-222b-966d5a604781%40allartburns.org.

> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>

-- Steve

[j. eric townsend]

On 5/27/16 12:06, Steve Baker wrote:
> I wonder if sticking a capacitor between the PWM line and the power supply
> pin would fix that?

Something we do in the Arduino world should be easy to copy:

http://www.instructables.com/id/Analog-Output-Convert-PWM-to-Voltage/

[Stefan Hechenberger]

Any chance you can post the entire pdf of the new laser PSU. Would like
to add it to the manual.

---
Stefan Hechenberger
work: http://nortd.com
project: http://lasersaur.com
twitter: @stefanix

On 2016-05-26 13:08, virala...@gmail.com wrote:
> Thanks for your answer that gives me hope to understand what's going
> on.
> Coletech asked me to send them the values on the PSU when I fire at
> 80%. I'll post their answer here too.
>
> Here is the paper version I received with the laser (image).
>
> On the PDF they sent me by mail (and on their website which is down at
> the moment) they have another version without mention of the PWM, I
> join it too
>
> Le mardi 17 mai 2016 11:18:21 UTC+2, virala...@gmail.com a écrit :
>
>> Hi, I'm making a new topic here about the wiring of the PSU,
>> following this topic

>> https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/lasersaur/JCjnV9Jnc00 [1]

>> about a water flow error.
>>
>> I connected the PSU as explained here

>> http://www.lasersaur.com/manual/img/wiring-lasersaur-control.jpg [2]

>> and here too
>>
> https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-U74lOUteyGw/UzuvmPIxftI/AAAAAAAAAFw/nmtsw2_e8I8/s1600/DIAGRAM-updated.jpg

>> [3]

>>
>> But I can't get the laser firing at less than 80% (meaning, if in
>> the lasersaur app I ask for less than 80% the laser won't fire, with
>> more than 80% it fires).
>>

>> The only very short instructions [4] shipped with the PSU aren't

>> perfectly clear and seem to be different from the images above:
>> "When connecting the control plate, connect the light signal with
>> footer 2(TH) in the case of high power level
>> light~emitting, (footer 3(TL) for low power level
>> light~emitting), connect the ground~wire with footer 5 (G) ,
>> connect footer 6 (IN) with power control analog signal,
>> and make short circuit for footer 4(WP) and 5(G) . "
>>
>> A part si written in the paper instruction, but not on their
>> website:

>> "_PWM can also be used in footer 6 but the pulse peak is required to

>> reach 5V, and the frequency should be above 20K. When the pulse peak
>> can't reach 5V please rotate the current regulator button clockwise

>> for adjustment._ "

>>
>> So I'm wondering if the images I used are correct, or should I
>> follow the paper instructions ?
>>
>> Quite stuck here as I 'm not confident enough here to test othe
>> wiring around.
>

> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> Groups "lasersaur" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send
> an email to lasersaur+...@googlegroups.com.
> To post to this group, send email to lase...@googlegroups.com.
> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/lasersaur.
> To view this discussion on the web visit

> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/lasersaur/2416621c-b4b9-471c-bcfd-7f3f57939862%40googlegroups.com
> [5].

> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>
>

> Links:
> ------
> [1] https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/lasersaur/JCjnV9Jnc00
> [2] http://www.lasersaur.com/manual/img/wiring-lasersaur-control.jpg
> [3]
> https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-U74lOUteyGw/UzuvmPIxftI/AAAAAAAAAFw/nmtsw2_e8I8/s1600/DIAGRAM-updated.jpg
> [4]
> http://www.recilaser.com/en/productInfo/402880e8462772c90146278243a900d1.htm
> [5]
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/lasersaur/2416621c-b4b9-471c-bcfd-7f3f57939862%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer

[virala...@gmail.com]

Here are all the documents I received from them (as you will see, there is a slight difference, some describe how to PWM, some not), the translation of the "fault and solution" seems strange...

We managed to make our first cuts, but here is what we got:

When we connect the laser the way described in your documentation (PWM on IN) the laser is working quite fine but under 15% it doesn't fire.

When we connect it the way lasersaur say it should be (PWM on TH) we get the following values:
<80 % : 0ma
80% 28.4 ma
85% 29.3 ma
90% 30.5ma
100% 33 ma

I'm waiting for the advice of their enginners, and I will report here.

Matthieu

[Jarvis Schultz]

We have been working on getting the P14 working as well, and I have a couple of things to add, as well as a few questions. I had a Chinese student email Reci directly to see if they had any additional documentation. They sent the same files that Matthieu posted (and Chinese versions). No new info there. I also asked them the following questions (still waiting on a response):

• If using "high-frequency modulation" to control the laser power, what "impact on service life" should be expected?
• Do they have any specs on on the pulse train acceptable for driving the TH pin? Is there a minimum pulse width? What is considered "high frequency" switching?
• Is there a way to keep the functionality of the WP pin while also disabling the alarm speaker? (I haven't taken our supply apart... yet)

Here are a few questions:

• Reading the docs, it definitely seems like an analog voltage on the IN pin allows one to set the supply to produce between a minimum current value (likely 0A) and a max value (set by the potentiometer). Researching CO2 lasers, it seems like both current control devices and high-frequency modulation (of the whole laser) are popular power control schemes. Does anyone know anything about the physics of the two schemes? If we do switch to controlling the laser with a current-controlled power supply, what effects will this have on cutting/etching/rastering (probably material specific)? I feel like most "pro" lasers I've used (Epilog, Universal) also use pulsing to control effective power... is this true? If so, it makes me a bit worried about the current-controlled version's capabilities.
  
  
• One likely effect is that we would not be able to achieve "low power cutting". As Matthieu/stefan pointed out, below some minimum current level the laser doesn't fire. A low duty-cycle PWM on the TH pin seems likely able to achieve effective cutting powers lower than the continuous laser at minimum current. Does this seem right? Any idea how powerful/effective-at-cutting the laser is at minimum current when compared to a very low power setting with the old power supplies? We could possibly remedy this by switching to pulsing the laser combined with low current limits for very low power settings if this is a problem.
  
  
• Presumably if the TH pin is disconnected (or grounded?) then setting TL to high fires the laser in "low power mode" (or at least, that's what I got from the docs). Any idea what this effectively does? Could it be used to give finer control over the power?
  
  
• Reiterating, connecting the standard PWM output from the Atmega328 (pin D6) to the IN pin instead of the TH pin allows us to control power by limiting current (possibly with some filtering caps). In the LasuarApp source code, the adjust_speed function of stepper.c slows the PWM frequency down when the required duty cycle is low. Why? is this due to some minimum pulse width for the old PS/laser? How were the 40 / 10 (15% / 3.9%) cutoff values decided upon? Presumably, we'd want to remove this if we were counting on the PWM output to be acting as an analog input on IN correct?
  
  
• If we are going to connect Atmega328 D6 to the IN pin (via the BL) wire in the connector, then is it suggested to tie TH to 5V? That has me a bit concerned. Any nonzero voltage on IN could cause the laser to fire... we'd have no way of cutting the laser off. Looking at the PCB, it seems that pin D5 of the 328 is wired to the laser connector on the drive board. In software, this is setup to control AUX 2. Could we connect TH on the power supply to D5 on the 328 using the WBL wire inside of the Ethernet cable? Then in software, we'd need to make sure to set that pin high only when we are meaning to fire the laser. This could be done whenever setting the IN pin duty cycle (e.g. in the control_laser_intensity() function), or we could make sure that the GCode generated from the SVG files includes the lines that trigger the NEXT_ACTION_AUX2_ASSIST_ENABLE and NEXT_ACTION_AUX2_ASSIST_DISABLE actions before and after running the job (maybe less secure). Thoughts on this?
  
  
• Regarding the horrible beeping from the supply: I'm not hopeful that Reci will tell us how to disable the speaker. I'll likely open the thing up and just take a little look to see how hard it would be to disable. Grounding the WP pin (as suggested here) seems a bit sketchy. I like the idea of software-independent backup safety systems. Another thought would be to add a separate power switch to the front of the machine that allows the user to independently control the laser PS. The operating instructions would then be "open lid -> place material -> close lid -> turn on laser power supply -> run job". This is one more step, but it acts as another layer of safety (the door should never be open if the power supply is on). My only concern is the long time constant associated with caps in the power supply. After cutting power when the thing is beeping, it keeps beeping for 5-10 seconds. This might be annoying for users. Thoughts on this?

We are getting awfully close to finishing the our first lasersaur, and I super excited! Sorry for the very long post. Thanks to everyone in the community for the hard work!

[virala...@gmail.com]

We had an answer from Coletech just saying our powersupply seems fine. Nothing more...
So we keep on using their scheme for connecting the laser to the PSU. It's working fine but we stil can't go under 15%, and it's realy a problem for etching:
If we go too fast (above 1000mm/min) the result for complex drawing is dotted lines, like if the laser needs some time to light up between each line. So for a lot of thin material we can't etch (it just cut) and for wood we just get very deep burn.

So I ask this question again: did anyone manage to get the reci p14 psu working with the PWM connected to TH ? We realy need this answer to better identify the problem.

Le mardi 17 mai 2016 11:18:21 UTC+2, virala...@gmail.com a écrit :

[Dimitri Titov]

I'll try to drop by and look at my wiring again and let you know how I have it wired.  Won't be there probably until another 10 hours minimum.   I'll let you know asap.

--

You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lasersaur" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to lasersaur+...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to lase...@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/lasersaur.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/lasersaur/3299a1e3-9aea-4b11-badb-f50d24bda68f%40googlegroups.com.

[Steve Baker]

The "dotted lines" problem is probably because you can't go below 15%.

When the Arduino drives the laser around, the stepper motors take a little
while to get up to speed and a little time to slow down again - that means
that even at 1000mm/min, they start moving much more slowly and only
gradually get up to that speed - then slow down just before they have to
stop.

When the laser head is moving more slowly than you asked for, we have to
apply less power to the beam or else it'll etch too deeply.

Hence the Arduino slowly increases the power from some low value up to the
power you ask for as the motors slowly gain speed, then holds it at that
higher power until it has to start reducing the power as it decelerates
the head.

That means that every time the motors have to change speed (which can
include cutting curves an changing direction as well as at the start and
end of lines).

So it's likely that the power drops below your 15% firing threshold every
time the head has to change direction...which is probably what you're
seeing.

Somewhere in the Ardiuno code, there is a minimum laser power setting...if
you change that to 15%, the dotted lines should go away. This might be a
useful kludge to get you going in the short term.

Long-term however, (obviously) we need to figure out why you can't get the
thing to fire at lower power settings.

-- Steve

Dimitri Titov wrote:
> I'll try to drop by and look at my wiring again and let you know how I
> have
> it wired. Won't be there probably until another 10 hours minimum. I'll
> let you know asap.
> On Jun 21, 2016 03:31, <virala...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> We had an answer from Coletech just saying our powersupply seems fine.
>> Nothing more...
>> So we keep on using their scheme for connecting the laser to the PSU.
>> It's
>> working fine but we stil can't go under 15%, and it's realy a problem
>> for
>> etching:
>> If we go too fast (above 1000mm/min) the result for complex drawing is
>> dotted lines, like if the laser needs some time to light up between each
>> line. So for a lot of thin material we can't etch (it just cut) and for
>> wood we just get very deep burn.
>>
>> So I ask this question again: did anyone manage to get the reci p14 psu
>> working with the PWM connected to TH ? We realy need this answer to
>> better
>> identify the problem.
>>

>> Le mardi 17 mai 2016 11:18:21 UTC+2, virala...@gmail.com a écrit :

>>>
>>> Hi, I'm making a new topic here about the wiring of the PSU, following
>>> this topic
>>> https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/lasersaur/JCjnV9Jnc00
>>> about a water flow error.
>>>
>>> I connected the PSU as explained here
>>> http://www.lasersaur.com/manual/img/wiring-lasersaur-control.jpg and
>>> here too
>>> https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-U74lOUteyGw/UzuvmPIxftI/AAAAAAAAAFw/nmtsw2_e8I8/s1600/DIAGRAM-updated.jpg
>>>
>>> But I can't get the laser firing at less than 80% (meaning, if in the
>>> lasersaur app I ask for less than 80% the laser won't fire, with more
>>> than
>>> 80% it fires).
>>>
>>> The only very short instructions

>>> <http://www.recilaser.com/en/productInfo/402880e8462772c90146278243a900d1.htm>

>>> shipped with the PSU aren't perfectly clear and seem to be different
>>> from
>>> the images above:
>>> "
>>>

>>> *When connecting the control plate, connect the light signal with

>>> footer 2(TH)
>>> in the case of high power level light~emitting, (footer 3(TL)
>>> for low power level light~emitting), connect the ground~wire with
>>> footer 5
>>> (G) , connect footer 6 (IN)
>>> with power control analog signal, and make short circuit for footer
>>> 4(WP)

>>> and 5(G) .* "

>>>
>>> A part si written in the paper instruction, but not on their website:

>>> "*PWM can also be used in footer 6 but the pulse peak is required to

>>> reach 5V, and the frequency should be above 20K. When the pulse peak
>>> can't
>>> reach 5V please rotate the current regulator button clockwise for

>>> adjustment.* "

>>>
>>> So I'm wondering if the images I used are correct, or should I follow
>>> the
>>> paper instructions ?
>>>
>>> Quite stuck here as I 'm not confident enough here to test othe wiring
>>> around.
>>>
>> --
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>> Groups
>> "lasersaur" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send
>> an
>> email to lasersaur+...@googlegroups.com.
>> To post to this group, send email to lase...@googlegroups.com.
>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/lasersaur.
>> To view this discussion on the web visit
>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/lasersaur/3299a1e3-9aea-4b11-badb-f50d24bda68f%40googlegroups.com

>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/lasersaur/3299a1e3-9aea-4b11-badb-f50d24bda68f%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>
>> .

>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>>
>

> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "lasersaur" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email to lasersaur+...@googlegroups.com.
> To post to this group, send email to lase...@googlegroups.com.
> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/lasersaur.
> To view this discussion on the web visit

> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/lasersaur/CADHAvTomN_sv7nMvPmxK1_os7XXyFSk1_prQ-7PyDmBCn28cug%40mail.gmail.com.

> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>

-- Steve

[Jarvis Schultz]

Steve's theory definitely seems correct regarding the spotting. I'd be curious about the etching performance if TL was wired to 5V and TH was left open (PWM still on IN). The Reci docs say something about the TL being used for the low power mode. If we can get acceptable etching performance in the low power mode, it wouldn't be that hard to figure out a software/hardware solution that would allow the drive board or an external switch to control whether you were in high power or low power mode.

[Martin Renold]

On Wed, Jun 15, 2016 at 02:41:13PM -0700, Jarvis Schultz wrote:
>
> In the LasuarApp source code, the adjust_speed function of stepper.c

> <https://github.com/stefanix/LasaurApp/blob/358fadaab931298f0d223681b15af96c8eb37b1e/firmware/src/stepper.c#L468-L490>

> slows the PWM frequency down when the required duty cycle is low. Why?
> is this due to some minimum pulse width for the old PS/laser? How were
> the 40 / 10 (15% / 3.9%) cutoff values decided upon? Presumably, we'd
> want to remove this if we were counting on the PWM output to be acting
> as an analog input on IN correct?

It has to do with the available prescaler values of the PWM generator. (And
yes there is a minimum pulse duration, too, or at least I observed strange
light flashes - probably arcing - with too short pulses.) You may be
interested that I've got a different PWM implementation in my pr-pulseraster
branch which allows very fine control for the pulse frequency, at the
trade-off that pulse duration must be multiples of 32us.

The intensity mapping: http://log2.ch/laser/raster-testing/intensity-mapping.png

Here you can see where exactly the current firmware makes a frequency step
while ramping up the intensity during acceleration:
http://log2.ch/laser/raster-testing/power_calib_8000_low.jpg

For more info about my branch: https://github.com/stefanix/LasaurApp/pull/69

Regards
Martin

[virala...@gmail.com]

@Jarvis; what I understood is that Low Power mode means that the laser fires when the TL is at 0, but it doesn't mean that it is suited for low power. Correct me if I'm wrong.

@Martin: thanks for the info, we may have here an explanation: it is written in the documentation of the P14 PSU "PWM can also be used in footer 6, but the pulse peak is required to reach 5V, and the frequency should be above 20K"
Could it be that there is a mistake here and it is 2000Hz and not 20000Hz, in that case we clearly see on your Intensity-Mapping that under 15% the frequency is less than 2000Hz and therefore the laser doesn't fire. But if I'm right even with your new firmware it wont fire.
Could it be possible to adjust the firmware so that the frequency is always above 2000Hz but with a shorter pulse duration ?

[Jarvis Schultz]

@virala .... So I think you are saying that your belief is that the logic state of TL controls whether a high signal or a low signal on TH causes the laser to fire (i.e. TL=GND => TL=GND to fire | TL=FLOAT => TH=5V to fire). The translation of the docs are not great. I could see how this behaviour could be in agreement with the docs. I also feel like I read some post from Stefan saying something along these lines. If this is the case, then utilizing TL to get power below 15% is definitely not viable. I haven't yet tested this to verify.

Regarding Martin's post... I understand how his fork modulates laser duty cycle by changing frequency and keeping pulse durations constant. This definitely seems to help laser performance at low power settings when modulating cutting power through PWM on the TH pin. My suspicion is that the power modulation via the analog voltage on IN (footer 6?) has very different characteristics. It would be easy to modify the source code to keep the frequency at 3.9 kHz for all duty cycles. You just need to take out this if statement. I mentioned this idea in my super long post.

According to the Atmega328 data sheet. If we set the three LSBs of the TCCR0B register to 001 (e.g. TCCR0B = _BV(CS00) ) we could instead generate PWM outputs at 31.4 kHz (16 MHz / (1 prescaler * 510)). So if the IN pin needs PWM signals above 20 kHz (instead of 2 kHz), we could generate that. Have you tried modulating the power with a potentiometer instead? Will the laser will still cut out below some minimum voltage in IN.... maybe 0.75 V = 5V * 0.15?

[virala...@gmail.com]

Maybe we are just unlucky and got au faulty PSU from start: now we can't get more than 8mA out of it and can't cut anything more than cardboard...

It's strange, at the start of the job it gives around 4mA, then (heating ?) after some minutes reaches 8mA.

Tested with a switch and potentiometer, it's the same so it doesn't come from the BBB.

Still waiting for the answer from Coletech. Anybody got this type of symptoms ?

[Steve Baker]

I don't know about the latest PSU's (the ones with the LCD display) - but
the older ones have an adjustment potentiometer somewhere.

It's usually factory-adjusted the right value - but...who knows?

-- Steve

virala...@gmail.com wrote:
> Maybe we are just unlucky and got au faulty PSU from start: now we can't
> get more than 8mA out of it and can't cut anything more than cardboard...
>
> It's strange, at the start of the job it gives around 4mA, then (heating
> ?)
> after some minutes reaches 8mA.
>
> Tested with a switch and potentiometer, it's the same so it doesn't come
> from the BBB.
>
> Still waiting for the answer from Coletech. Anybody got this type of
> symptoms ?
>

> Le mardi 17 mai 2016 11:18:21 UTC+2, virala...@gmail.com a écrit :

>>
>> Hi, I'm making a new topic here about the wiring of the PSU, following
>> this topic https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/lasersaur/JCjnV9Jnc00
>> about a water flow error.
>>
>> I connected the PSU as explained here
>> http://www.lasersaur.com/manual/img/wiring-lasersaur-control.jpg and
>> here
>> too
>> https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-U74lOUteyGw/UzuvmPIxftI/AAAAAAAAAFw/nmtsw2_e8I8/s1600/DIAGRAM-updated.jpg
>>
>> But I can't get the laser firing at less than 80% (meaning, if in the
>> lasersaur app I ask for less than 80% the laser won't fire, with more
>> than
>> 80% it fires).
>>
>> The only very short instructions

>> <http://www.recilaser.com/en/productInfo/402880e8462772c90146278243a900d1.htm>

>> shipped with the PSU aren't perfectly clear and seem to be different
>> from
>> the images above:
>> "
>>

>> *When connecting the control plate, connect the light signal with footer

>> 2(TH)
>> in the case of high power level light~emitting, (footer 3(TL)
>> for low power level light~emitting), connect the ground~wire with footer
>> 5
>> (G) , connect footer 6 (IN)
>> with power control analog signal, and make short circuit for footer
>> 4(WP)

>> and 5(G) .* "

>>
>> A part si written in the paper instruction, but not on their website:

>> "*PWM can also be used in footer 6 but the pulse peak is required to

>> reach 5V, and the frequency should be above 20K. When the pulse peak
>> can't
>> reach 5V please rotate the current regulator button clockwise for

>> adjustment.* "

>>
>> So I'm wondering if the images I used are correct, or should I follow
>> the
>> paper instructions ?
>>
>> Quite stuck here as I 'm not confident enough here to test othe wiring
>> around.
>>
>

> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "lasersaur" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email to lasersaur+...@googlegroups.com.
> To post to this group, send email to lase...@googlegroups.com.
> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/lasersaur.
> To view this discussion on the web visit

> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/lasersaur/6162a821-8eab-49f1-a746-1368d373f93f%40googlegroups.com.

[Julio César Cuervo Diaz]

Hi, Im having a similar problem but this time using a S2 reci laser tube and a P12 and P14 PSU they show me short circuit problem when i contact directly to reci they told me that was a laser Tube problem so i decided to change it but the problem persist.

was so useful the documents you bring here but anyway the problem its there with the new tube i insist too that my P12 came with a problem since the start, but with the P14 i don´t know what to do.

[virala...@gmail.com]

For us this PSU is still a nightmare:
We managed to get it work with the RECI wiring, but as expected unable to fire less than 20%. Then after a month, the power was very low, and fluctuating, so after weeks of mail exchange with ColeTech we sent them back the PSU. It came back from China after one month (and several mails asking for news as we didn't have any feedback) with no info at all about what was repaired or not !
Now the cables are even longer, and there is no way not to get "Open Circuit" error. We tried for a full day billions of different wiring schemes, screwing the PSU to the frame or not, and nothing...
By the way, if we use the lasersaur wiring (PWM on TH) still nothing happens under 80%.

So I ask again this simple but very important question for us:
"DID ANYONE MANAGE TO HAVE A RECI P14 PSU WORKING IN A LASERSAUR USING THE PWM ON TH ?"

Sorry for shouting it loud, but I'm very in need for answers with our 8000€ useless aluminium box, and it seems that I won't get any good answer from Coletech...

I think we will buy on ebay one of those older psu but we I want to be sure I won't waste the fablab's money.

Thanks again to the community for the support

[j. eric townsend]

No, I haven't tried a P14, but I do have a "Jupiter" model working just
fine. Similar wiring to the older RECI but the build quality is much
better.

> https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/lasersaur/JCjnV9Jnc00 <https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/lasersaur/JCjnV9Jnc00>

> about a water flow error.
>
> I connected the PSU as explained here
> http://www.lasersaur.com/manual/img/wiring-lasersaur-control.jpg
> <http://www.lasersaur.com/manual/img/wiring-lasersaur-control.jpg>
> and here too
> https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-U74lOUteyGw/UzuvmPIxftI/AAAAAAAAAFw/nmtsw2_e8I8/s1600/DIAGRAM-updated.jpg
> <https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-U74lOUteyGw/UzuvmPIxftI/AAAAAAAAAFw/nmtsw2_e8I8/s1600/DIAGRAM-updated.jpg>
>
> But I can't get the laser firing at less than 80% (meaning,
> if in the lasersaur app I ask for less than 80% the laser
> won't fire, with more than 80% it fires).
>
> The only very short instructions

> <http://www.recilaser.com/en/productInfo/402880e8462772c90146278243a900d1.htm>

> shipped with the PSU aren't perfectly clear and seem to be
> different from the images above:

> "/When connecting the control plate, connect the light signal with footer 2(TH)

> in the case of high power level
> light~emitting, (footer 3(TL)
> for low power level light~emitting), connect the ground~wire with footer 5
> (G) ,
> connect footer 6 (IN)
> with power control analog signal, and make short circuit for footer 4(WP)

> and 5(G) ./ "

>
> A part si written in the paper instruction, but not on their
> website:

> "/PWM can also be used in footer 6 but the pulse peak is

> required to reach 5V, and the frequency should be above 20K.
> When the pulse peak can't reach 5V please rotate the current

> regulator button clockwise for adjustment./ "

>
> So I'm wondering if the images I used are correct, or should
> I follow the paper instructions ?
>
> Quite stuck here as I 'm not confident enough here to test
> othe wiring around.
>

> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> Groups "lasersaur" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send
> an email to lasersaur+...@googlegroups.com

> <mailto:lasersaur+...@googlegroups.com>.

> To post to this group, send email to lase...@googlegroups.com

> <mailto:lase...@googlegroups.com>.

> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/lasersaur.
> To view this discussion on the web visit

> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/lasersaur/18670f11-f2ce-4b02-8dec-6d3ef2ebd497%40googlegroups.com
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/lasersaur/18670f11-f2ce-4b02-8dec-6d3ef2ebd497%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>.

> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.


--

[Steve Baker]

I haven't personally tried any of the newer PSU's...mostly because I've
seen so many reports of people having problems with them.

The older ColeTech PSU (the one that doesn't have an LCD display) works
just fine - EXCEPT that it's somewhat unreliable.

I have about 10,000 hours on my two lasersaurs - and I know that these
power supplies work well while they're working - but are the most
unreliable part of the entire lasersaur system. We've found that they
fail quite often - we've probably repaired or replaced a power supply
maybe every 1,000 hours of service.

By far the most common failure mode is that the black, disk-like thermal
protection gizmo tends to blow up - and providing you buy some spares
(they are a buck or two each) and can solder - you can replace that part
in 20 minutes and be back up and running again. The second most common
failure is the internal fuse blowing - which is relatively easy to
fix...but again, you need spares. We have had two occasions when we were
unable to diagnose the fault condition and ended up replacing the PSU.

You know when the fuse or the thermal protection widget is the cause
because the fan on top of the unit stops spinning. If my laser
mysteriously goes dark in mid-cut, that fan is the first thing I check.

So my advice (much though I hate to give it) is to get onto Ebay and buy
the older PSU. If your lasersaur is in frequent use, you might want to
buy two of them so you always have a spare and there is less pressure to
repair a busted unit.

If you search on Ebay for "120w RECI laser power supply", you'll see a
bunch of companies selling them at around $200 with free shipping. They
have a fan on the top, vent holes on one side, and generally come wrapped
in blue plastic film.

Sorry that this is a pain. There *may* be better solutions out
there...but right now, this is the only solution that we have lots of
experience with. It's not great - but at least it's a solid "known
quantity".

-- Steve



j. eric townsend wrote:

> No, I haven't tried a P14, but I do have a "Jupiter" model working just
> fine. Similar wiring to the older RECI but the build quality is much
> better.
>
>
> On 9/12/16 02:57, virala...@gmail.com wrote:
>> For us this PSU is still a nightmare:
>> We managed to get it work with the RECI wiring, but as expected unable
>> to fire less than 20%. Then after a month, the power was very low, and
>> fluctuating, so after weeks of mail exchange with ColeTech we sent them
>> back the PSU. It came back from China after one month (and several mails
>> asking for news as we didn't have any feedback) with no info at all
>> about what was repaired or not !
>> Now the cables are even longer, and there is no way not to get "Open
>> Circuit" error. We tried for a full day billions of different wiring
>> schemes, screwing the PSU to the frame or not, and nothing...
>> By the way, if we use the lasersaur wiring (PWM on TH) still nothing
>> happens under 80%.
>>
>> So I ask again this simple but very important question for us:
>> "DID ANYONE MANAGE TO HAVE A RECI P14 PSU WORKING IN A LASERSAUR USING
>> THE PWM ON TH ?"
>>
>> Sorry for shouting it loud, but I'm very in need for answers with our

>> 8000€ useless aluminium box, and it seems that I won't get any good

>> answer from Coletech...
>>
>> I think we will buy on ebay one of those older psu but we I want to be
>> sure I won't waste the fablab's money.
>>
>> Thanks again to the community for the support
>>

>> Le lundi 18 juillet 2016 17:49:13 UTC+2, Julio César Cuervo Diaz a
>> écrit :

>>
>> Hi, Im having a similar problem but this time using a S2 reci laser
>> tube and a P12 and P14 PSU they show me short circuit problem when i
>> contact directly to reci they told me that was a laser Tube problem
>> so i decided to change it but the problem persist.
>>
>> was so useful the documents you bring here but anyway the problem
>> its there with the new tube i insist too that my P12 came with a

>> problem since the start, but with the P14 i don´t know what to do.

>>
>> El jueves, 7 de julio de 2016, 2:32:16 (UTC-5), virala...@gmail.com

>> escribió:

>>
>> Maybe we are just unlucky and got au faulty PSU from start: now
>> we can't get more than 8mA out of it and can't cut anything more
>> than cardboard...
>>
>> It's strange, at the start of the job it gives around 4mA, then
>> (heating ?) after some minutes reaches 8mA.
>>
>> Tested with a switch and potentiometer, it's the same so it
>> doesn't come from the BBB.
>>
>> Still waiting for the answer from Coletech. Anybody got this
>> type of symptoms ?
>>
>> Le mardi 17 mai 2016 11:18:21 UTC+2, virala...@gmail.com a

>> écrit :

> email to lasersaur+...@googlegroups.com.
> To post to this group, send email to lase...@googlegroups.com.

> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/lasersaur.
> To view this discussion on the web visit

> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/lasersaur/4f8a248f-62e8-0dbb-fd99-4208a45638e1%40allartburns.org.

> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>

-- Steve

[Jarvis Schultz]

We have finally gotten ours to work, and it seems to be fairly reliable. We probably have about 20 hours worth of cutting on it with no problems.

Beeping

We never tried to fix the beeping. Instead, I wired in a switch that allows me to physically cut power between the laser power supply and the downstream side of the SSR that the original e-stop is connected to. What we've been doing is making sure to turn the laser power supply off whenever the door is open. This basically acts as another layer of safety. The only downside to this that I've found is that the power supply takes maybe 15 seconds to fully boot. If someone tries to start a cut before the power supply is booted, the beginning of the job won't have the laser firing. Pretty easy to get used to.

Wiring

We wired as discussed earlier in this thread. TH is tied to 5V, TL is left open, and IN is connected to the PWM output of the Atmel. Just like mentioned earlier in this thread, we were having problems with the laser not firing if the PWM value was below about 15% duty cycle. So we created a fork of the main LasaurApp repo where we modified the PWM output code to set (1% power level = 15% duty cycle). We also made sure that accelerations and decelerations were not setting PWM below 15%. At 0% power, we use 0% duty cycle. This has worked just fine so far. It is difficult to tell how the 15% constant on power compares to the pulsed laser that the original design is using. My suspicion is that our achievable minimum power is quite a bit higher than the minimum powers that the original design obtains. This hasn't been much of an issue for us so far. The fork is here: https://github.com/NU-MSR/LasaurApp Check the commit comments for more descriptions of the changes we made.

Weird Issue

The only strange behavior that we've encountered occurred after we did our initial tests. We started getting "Short Circuit Fault Analysis: The high voltage wire connected to ground wire or connected to the machine!" warnings whenever we set our power to 100%. Quite a lot of testing revealed that the current that was being drawn at full power was significantly above the recommended 26-28mA (even though we had already set the limiting potentiometer). We re-tuned this pot, and haven't had a problem since. Not sure what caused this issue, which is frustrating. However, our system seems fairly stable.

If anyone wants part numbers or details on our modified wiring, let me know.

[Steve Baker]

Do you have a laser power meter?

It would be interesting to see whether your "tweaked" current limit is
allowing the laser to run at 100 watts - and just how little power you get
at 1% (which is "really" 15%).

Maybe this is a good fix - maybe not? It's kinda hard to tell without
measuring the actual laser output.

Wouldn't it have been simpler to fix the beep by putting a switch in the
way of the actual beeper? You could route that through another door
switch so that the beeper would be disconnected whenever the door is open
- and that would avoid the 15 second wait. I guess that would entail
modifying the power supply though...so I could see why you wouldn't want
to do that.

-- Steve

Jarvis Schultz wrote:
> We have finally gotten ours to work, and it seems to be fairly reliable.
> We
> probably have about 20 hours worth of cutting on it with no problems.
>

> *Beeping*

> We never tried to fix the beeping. Instead, I wired in a switch that
> allows
> me to physically cut power between the laser power supply and the
> downstream side of the SSR that the original e-stop is connected to. What
> we've been doing is making sure to turn the laser power supply off
> whenever
> the door is open. This basically acts as another layer of safety. The only
> downside to this that I've found is that the power supply takes maybe 15
> seconds to fully boot. If someone tries to start a cut before the power
> supply is booted, the beginning of the job won't have the laser firing.
> Pretty easy to get used to.
>

> *Wiring*

> We wired as discussed earlier in this thread. TH is tied to 5V, TL is left
> open, and IN is connected to the PWM output of the Atmel. Just like
> mentioned earlier in this thread, we were having problems with the laser
> not firing if the PWM value was below about 15% duty cycle. So we created
> a
> fork of the main LasaurApp repo where we modified the PWM output code to
> set (1% power level = 15% duty cycle). We also made sure that
> accelerations
> and decelerations were not setting PWM below 15%. At 0% power, we use 0%
> duty cycle. This has worked just fine so far. It is difficult to tell how
> the 15% constant on power compares to the pulsed laser that the original
> design is using. My suspicion is that our achievable minimum power is
> quite
> a bit higher than the minimum powers that the original design obtains.
> This
> hasn't been much of an issue for us so far. The fork is
> here: https://github.com/NU-MSR/LasaurApp Check the commit comments for
> more descriptions of the changes we made.
>

> *Weird Issue*

>> >> 8000€ useless aluminium box, and it seems that I won't get any

>> good
>> >> answer from Coletech...
>> >>
>> >> I think we will buy on ebay one of those older psu but we I want to
>> be
>> >> sure I won't waste the fablab's money.
>> >>
>> >> Thanks again to the community for the support
>> >>

>> >> Le lundi 18 juillet 2016 17:49:13 UTC+2, Julio César Cuervo Diaz a
>> >> écrit :

>> >>
>> >> Hi, Im having a similar problem but this time using a S2 reci
>> laser
>> >> tube and a P12 and P14 PSU they show me short circuit problem
>> when
>> i
>> >> contact directly to reci they told me that was a laser Tube
>> problem
>> >> so i decided to change it but the problem persist.
>> >>
>> >> was so useful the documents you bring here but anyway the problem
>> >> its there with the new tube i insist too that my P12 came with a

>> >> problem since the start, but with the P14 i don´t know what to

>> do.
>> >>
>> >> El jueves, 7 de julio de 2016, 2:32:16 (UTC-5),
>> virala...@gmail.com

>> >> escribió:

>> >>
>> >> Maybe we are just unlucky and got au faulty PSU from start:
>> now
>> >> we can't get more than 8mA out of it and can't cut anything
>> more
>> >> than cardboard...
>> >>
>> >> It's strange, at the start of the job it gives around 4mA,
>> then
>> >> (heating ?) after some minutes reaches 8mA.
>> >>
>> >> Tested with a switch and potentiometer, it's the same so it
>> >> doesn't come from the BBB.
>> >>
>> >> Still waiting for the answer from Coletech. Anybody got this
>> >> type of symptoms ?
>> >>
>> >> Le mardi 17 mai 2016 11:18:21 UTC+2, virala...@gmail.com a

>> >> écrit :

>> >> an email to lasersaur+...@googlegroups.com <javascript:>
>> >> <mailto:lasersaur+...@googlegroups.com <javascript:>>.

>> >> To post to this group, send email to lase...@googlegroups.com

>> <javascript:>
>> >> <mailto:lase...@googlegroups.com <javascript:>>.

>> >> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/lasersaur.
>> >> To view this discussion on the web visit
>> >>
>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/lasersaur/18670f11-f2ce-4b02-8dec-6d3ef2ebd497%40googlegroups.com
>> >> <
>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/lasersaur/18670f11-f2ce-4b02-8dec-6d3ef2ebd497%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>.
>>
>> >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > J. Eric Townsend, IDSA
>> > design <http://www.allartburns.org>
>> > hacking <http://www.flatline.net>
>> > consulting <http://www.functionalprototype.com>
>> >
>> > --
>> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>> Groups
>> > "lasersaur" group.
>> > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send
>> an

>> > email to lasersaur+...@googlegroups.com <javascript:>.

>> > To post to this group, send email to lase...@googlegroups.com

>> <javascript:>.

>> > Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/lasersaur.
>> > To view this discussion on the web visit
>> >

>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/lasersaur/4f8a248f-62e8-0dbb-fd99-4208a45638e1%40allartburns.org.
>>
>> > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>> >
>>
>>
>> -- Steve
>>
>>
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "lasersaur" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email to lasersaur+...@googlegroups.com.
> To post to this group, send email to lase...@googlegroups.com.
> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/lasersaur.
> To view this discussion on the web visit

> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/lasersaur/a84dd883-1abc-436c-9e16-b55ecbd9e074%40googlegroups.com.

[Freek]

Hey Virala,

I have one RECI P14  power supply working and had unsolvable problems with the other one: a friend of mine and myself have both made a lasersaur, we bought all laser related parts in 1 order to save money on transport cost. I believe you've found the topic in which we describe the problems we encountered (here: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/lasersaur/p14%7Csort:relevance/lasersaur/FzpA10UFN3g/w3sAldb1DgAJ), so different error behavior then what you're experiencing. We ended up replacing the broken P14 with one of the older models, this one works fine.

I believe (but not entirely sure) we wired the P14 PSU using the description from lasersaur. We opened the broken P14 PSU to see if we could spot a problem and noticed a lot of components have their serial numbers ground off the top. This makes it fairly difficult to order new components and see if it makes a difference. I hope you manage to solve your problem!

Kind regards,

Freek

[Steve Baker]

Hmmm...grinding off the part numbers is an especially evil practice!

I wonder if they've always done that? I bet if other people with P14's
looked inside we could find one with the part numbers intact. Of course
that won't help without knowing which part failed - and that's not always
easy to diagnose.

The older psu's almost always fail in one of two ways - either the
internal fuse blows - or the thermal protection gizmo does it's job and
blows...usually by shattering into a million pieces and covering the
inside of the PSU with foul smelling (possibly toxic) black dust! But in
either case, it's easy to see what broke and how to fix it.

But it truly is a pain to have a closed-hardware solution slap in the
middle of an otherwise open-hardware/open-software system. (Well, OK, the
GeckoDrive modules are closed source too - but they hardly ever fail).

Because it's the least-reliable part of the machine, we truly need an
open-hardware design for the laser power supply so we can repair them more
easily - and (ideally) so someone can fix whatever it is that causes them
to break. But sadly, that kind of high voltage power engineering is a
specialized skill that very few people have - so it's not likely that this
will happen.

Probably the best chance is to reverse-engineer the older (and much
simpler) RECI design and take steps to rectify whatever it is that causes
them to fail so often.

-- Steve

>> 8000€ useless aluminium box, and it seems that I won't get any good

>> answer
>> from Coletech...
>>
>> I think we will buy on ebay one of those older psu but we I want to be
>> sure I won't waste the fablab's money.
>>
>> Thanks again to the community for the support
>>

>> Le lundi 18 juillet 2016 17:49:13 UTC+2, Julio César Cuervo Diaz a
>> écrit :
>>>

>>> Hi, Im having a similar problem but this time using a S2 reci laser
>>> tube
>>> and a P12 and P14 PSU they show me short circuit problem when i contact
>>> directly to reci they told me that was a laser Tube problem so i
>>> decided to
>>> change it but the problem persist.
>>>
>>> was so useful the documents you bring here but anyway the problem its
>>> there with the new tube i insist too that my P12 came with a problem
>>> since

>>> the start, but with the P14 i don´t know what to do.

>>>
>>> El jueves, 7 de julio de 2016, 2:32:16 (UTC-5), virala...@gmail.com

>>> escribió:

>>>>
>>>> Maybe we are just unlucky and got au faulty PSU from start: now we
>>>> can't
>>>> get more than 8mA out of it and can't cut anything more than
>>>> cardboard...
>>>>
>>>> It's strange, at the start of the job it gives around 4mA, then
>>>> (heating
>>>> ?) after some minutes reaches 8mA.
>>>>
>>>> Tested with a switch and potentiometer, it's the same so it doesn't
>>>> come
>>>> from the BBB.
>>>>
>>>> Still waiting for the answer from Coletech. Anybody got this type of
>>>> symptoms ?
>>>>

>>>> Le mardi 17 mai 2016 11:18:21 UTC+2, virala...@gmail.com a écrit :

>>>>>
>>>>> Hi, I'm making a new topic here about the wiring of the PSU,
>>>>> following
>>>>> this topic
>>>>> https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/lasersaur/JCjnV9Jnc00 about a
>>>>> water flow error.
>>>>>
>>>>> I connected the PSU as explained here
>>>>> http://www.lasersaur.com/manual/img/wiring-lasersaur-control.jpg and
>>>>> here too
>>>>> https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-U74lOUteyGw/UzuvmPIxftI/AAAAAAAAAFw/nmtsw2_e8I8/s1600/DIAGRAM-updated.jpg
>>>>>
>>>>> But I can't get the laser firing at less than 80% (meaning, if in the
>>>>> lasersaur app I ask for less than 80% the laser won't fire, with more
>>>>> than
>>>>> 80% it fires).
>>>>>
>>>>> The only very short instructions

>>>>> <http://www.recilaser.com/en/productInfo/402880e8462772c90146278243a900d1.htm>

>>>>> shipped with the PSU aren't perfectly clear and seem to be different
>>>>> from
>>>>> the images above:
>>>>> "
>>>>>

>>>>> *When connecting the control plate, connect the light signal with

>>>>> footer 2(TH)
>>>>> in the case of high power level light~emitting, (footer 3(TL)
>>>>> for low power level light~emitting), connect the ground~wire with
>>>>> footer 5
>>>>> (G) , connect footer 6 (IN)
>>>>> with power control analog signal, and make short circuit for footer
>>>>> 4(WP)

>>>>> and 5(G) .* "

>>>>>
>>>>> A part si written in the paper instruction, but not on their website:

>>>>> "*PWM can also be used in footer 6 but the pulse peak is required to

>>>>> reach 5V, and the frequency should be above 20K. When the pulse peak
>>>>> can't
>>>>> reach 5V please rotate the current regulator button clockwise for

>>>>> adjustment.* "

>>>>>
>>>>> So I'm wondering if the images I used are correct, or should I follow
>>>>> the paper instructions ?
>>>>>
>>>>> Quite stuck here as I 'm not confident enough here to test othe
>>>>> wiring
>>>>> around.
>>>>>
>>>>
>

> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "lasersaur" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email to lasersaur+...@googlegroups.com.
> To post to this group, send email to lase...@googlegroups.com.
> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/lasersaur.
> To view this discussion on the web visit

> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/lasersaur/4cb07de4-2264-4976-9645-09e84aec2a13%40googlegroups.com.