Autopilot

[Chris Campbell]

My J/44 has a Robertson/Simrad HLD 2000 MkII hydraulic drive mounted to starboard on a pedestal that looks like it was factory-installed. Is that what most of the other J/4x's have also? I ask because my drive is leaking fluid, and while my first solution is likely going to be to take it to a hydraulic shop for repair, it's old enough that parts and repair are going to be difficult, so I'm also pondering what comes next.

What is everyone else using?

Sailing Anarchy has a love of the Jefa LD100 (https://www.pyiinc.com/jefa-autopilot/lineardrives.html) which I admit does look very good. I've used a Raymarine Type 2 linear drive in the past and been happy with it also. This is my first hydraulic drive, and from what I have heard they are good because they are strong, but they are bad because they have more failure modes than the electro-mechanical ones. My opinion is still forming, thus my questions!

[Sean Motta]

I have the Hydraulic Projects ML40 white labeled as a B&G T2 which Raymarine, Garmin, and several others use and have been very happy with it. This is my second unit due to a leak in an old one with thousands of miles (which we rebuilt as a spare). Used to run off a garmin head now running off a B&G H5000 pilot

Sean,

Shazaam!

J/42 #50

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Sean Motta,

Mechanical Engineer

 

Sean...@Gmail.com

[Tom Keffer]

I was in a similar situation and looked at the Jefa. Here are my notes:

Read some comments on a Hanse forum that the DD1 does not degrade gracefully when overloaded. Planetary gears break, causing it to jam. Multiple cases of this happening. Mind you, this is on a 50' boats, which is way bigger than what Jefa recommends. The problems also seem to stem from attaching the drag link to the wrong hole on the tiller arm, causing unnecessary loading.

All-in-all, it would be a challenge to install one. It's bulky, and would have to sit very low, making it vulnerable to water. I doubt the existing aluminum mount would fit.

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[Chris Campbell]

One vote for staying hydraulic, and one against going mechanical. Given I have two identical hydraulic units, maybe that's the answer. I'm told the Jefa would use less power - at the moment my biggest consumer (by far!) is refrigeration, so I'll focus my efforts on generation and reduction in that area before worrying about how much the pilot consumes, I think.

Thanks for the input, I appreciate it!

[gale...@gmail.com]

I have a B&G T-1 hydraulic ram driven by a B&G NAC-3. Works very well but does slightly reduce the feel on the wheel by inducing some drag.

g

[Ed S]

This winter I installed a Raymarine electric motor driven ram, run by a NAC-3 along side (underneath, actually) my B&G ram on a NAC-2.

I left the old set up  installed for a backup (the B&G has been running fine, but I wanted redundancy). I’ve done some comparison, running each ram individually, and the helm is much lighter on the electric motor, of course. The NAC-3 seems much smarter too. I can’t speak much to the longevity of the Raymarine, but it’s been steering in some challenging conditions without a hiccup.

I didn’t really look into too many options, because I wanted to stick with the B&G brain for ease of integration with my existing gear. I took a recommendation for the Raymarine from my good buddy who owns a marine electronics business and is a whiz with the stuff. He also did a brilliant install, and I’m very happy with the set up so far. 

-Ed

Ventus, #68

[Chris Campbell]

Did I see you sailing West along the coast of NS this summer, you were headed to Wolfe Island and I was headed to Sally's/Shelter Cove? Small world :)

Thanks for the input on the Raymarine - I've decided that I will give a hydraulics shop a kick at the better of the two Robertson/Simrad rams that I have, but at the first sign of trouble I'm going Raymarine Type 2. I like the idea of quiet, am hoping for reliable, and lower power usage seems like a bonus also.

Cheers,

Chris

[Ed S]

Chris,

Yes! That must have been me. I do recall a boat going by, but I think I was heads down on something when my friends pointed it out.

Ed

Regards,

Ed

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esi...@gmail.com

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On Sep 15, 2022, at 08:16, Chris Campbell <chrickc...@gmail.com> wrote:

Did I see you sailing West along the coast of NS this summer, you were headed to Wolfe Island and I was headed to Sally's/Shelter Cove? Small world :)

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[Fred deNapoli]

Hi Folks

At the risk of switching topics briefly, I’m submitting this picture of a friend, Bob Slattery, brother of the more famous Jack Slattery (Mallory Cup winner, etc.), at the helm of a Swan 48 racing in St. Barts for two reasons.  While Jack is a full on pro, Bob somehow manages to maintain his Cat 3 status as an amateur, but gets flown all over the world to steer some of the best yachts on the planet….poor Bobby!  We crossed swords in the J/105 class numerous times and he’s the real deal!  

The mainsail strop is clearly shown and is a much healthier arrangement for our relatively soft aluminum booms.  I’m assuming that this boat has a German mainsheet system similar to the one we had on our J/124, but that shouldn’t make any difference for this conversation.  In a previous post I also recommended fitting a strong single lead from the bottom of the boom strop to the upper mainsheet block to both shorten the mainsheet and work as a safety measure for anyone losing their balance and grabbing it.  

The other thing to point out is the steering position Bob is in, straddling the wheel, braced against the pedestal, textbook technique.  Vs, standing behind the wheel this allows for far greater stability in even the roughest of conditions, and greatly reduces over-steering.

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[Joe Murli]

I have a J44 with RayMarine mechanical linear drive. I’ve cruised thousands of miles with this setup without problem. Had to replace the control head last year just before leaving for St Martin and fortunately found a company that sold me a refurbished unit.  Did over 3k miles on that trip without problem. 

Joe

J44 Sirena Bella

Sent from my iPhone

On Sep 15, 2022, at 8:16 AM, Chris Campbell <chrickc...@gmail.com> wrote:

Did I see you sailing West along the coast of NS this summer, you were headed to Wolfe Island and I was headed to Sally's/Shelter Cove? Small world :)

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[Robert Kowalski]

Seeing were talking about auto pilots, I’m wondering about features? On my last (Courage) I had the raymarine which was very good but when it was on wind direction it would kick out if there was a lets say 10º or 15º wind shift, giving you an off course warning and would quit, I’d have to go back and reset. Talked to the boys at raymarine and they said that was a safety feature (to me it was a nuisance.)

Now on Ardent my new girl she has a 10 or 15 year old simard which I named Fred after the most disagreeable man I’ve ever met, the keypad is to sensitive you just brush up against it and you can change direction or even turn it off not to mention there were times in heavy air he’d just give up.

What I’m wondering with the new brands is there one that when you set on wind direction that it solely steers to wind with no over-ride for compass course ? Also one that you can get hand held or wrist remote, I’d make spinnaker take downs so much easier.

thanks

Bob

Sailing a course less traveled
Delightfully typed on a full keyboard on a mac

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[Sean Motta]

I have the H5000 Pilot from B&G on my 42. Certainly overkill for a cruiser but the autopilot is incredible. The NAC-3, the next level down is also a fabulous controller. I have less experience with it but it likely does much of the same minus some of the advanced gust/heel factors. The WR10 and BT1 remote and base station is extremely compact and works well with either controller. The H5000 pilot requires an H5000 CPU for wind data. The NAC-3 does not and will communicate with other devices that feed it wind over N2K as I understand it. 

Sean

Shazaam!

J/42 #50

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[Galen Todd]

The B&G NAC-3 wind mode is rock solid. Once set to an apparent wind angle, it holds it +- 4 degrees. No compass override. Bearing hold is a separate mode. Independent key pad controller is excellent. My understanding is that if the NAC-3 is networked with a Zeus 3 chartplotter, it can be controlled by an Apple phone or ipad in mirror mode. Not sure if an Apple watch is included as a device option.

Tango

g

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Galen D. Todd
Camden, ME  04843

[William Stellin]

Our “autohelm” Raymarine drive was installed when the boat was built 1996. It runs perfectly. It is so quiet one can barely hear it even when sleeping down below. I replaced the head unit and all displays 5 years ago just because I wanted modern technology not because they failed. I attribute part of the drive’s longevity to the marvelous design of the wheels geometry, rudder, underwater hull design and sail/rig design. Our wheel moves tiny amounts while on the pilot compared with other boat designs (non-J/Boats). This means the drive is not working itself to death. Plus small movements by the drive unit consumes significantly less electric power. 

Bill #6

Sent from my iPhone

On Sep 20, 2022, at 5:19 AM, Joe Murli <mysticpu...@gmail.com> wrote:

 I have a J44 with RayMarine mechanical linear drive. I’ve cruised thousands of miles with this setup without problem. Had to replace the control head last year just before leaving for St Martin and fortunately found a company that sold me a refurbished unit.  Did over 3k miles on that trip without problem. 

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[Robert Kowalski]

Todd,
I’m wondering have you had it in the wind setting in a strong breeze like in the 30ties, forties and it held. On the raymarine it too was a separate setting but compass still over ruled.

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[Sean Motta]

As soon as you tie in to the Zeus if autopilot is on it goes to mirror mode only. You can’t control it. 

Sounds like the Nac-3 is as solid as the H5000 pilot. 

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[Galen Todd]

no, never in 40kts

held in 20+ easily

g

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[S/V Sweet Ruca]

We have sailed wind mode on the H5 in 40+. Alarm for shift, but stays sailing.

The NAC-3 I am told has the same guts as the H5, just different software, and can actually be updated to an H5.

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[Dick York]

For over 20 years I have had the Simrad-Robinson system on my J/46.  I did have to upgrade the ram to a larger size than TPI initially installed (and was proper if you read the Robinson spec sheet).  The ram was fine inshore, but blew its seals once offshore in the trades.

The larger ram does reduce the feel on the helm, but it is steering 95% of the time.  If I wanted to "really race" the boat, I would just disconnect the ram from the tiller. 

The ram is Hynautics, which was taken over by Sea Star, then by Dometic.  But, I assume one could find a suitable ram on the Dometic SeaStar site.

Performance.  

1.  I have the yaw function turned down pretty tight.  I get nervous if the boat slews too much, and, in the end, I think minor corrections early are much better than wild corrections later.  

2.  I ran up the Red Sea in 35-45 knots with higher gusts under storm staysail (alone), and the autopilot worked(!)  I used the compass mode, with one person near the controls all the time.  I like using compass mode, but I am not racing; rather I want the person on watch to pay attention to wind vs. course and sail trim.

  

AUTOPILOT STEERS! Running in 35-45 WHG.

Sail Safe All.....Dick

 "...get back aboard the boat where everything seems to make better sense."  M. Roye

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[WSC]

Just another vote here for NAC-3/Zeus3/B&G T1 Ram configuration.  Upgraded our 42 to these this year to replace legacy H1000 and Robertson controllers.  I can control the AP from the Zeus3 or the keypad/triton2 display.   Everything works great and only glitchy experience is when you switch to Nav mode and your already off your course..  the NAC-3 wants to bring you back on course immediately, which can create some dramatic turns...

Sean C #1

[Tom Keffer]

I've also switched to an H5000 autopilot, with a T2 ram. My review is more... mixed. I like the functionality and performance, but it has a few quirks.

For example, the magnetic declination model of the displays and AP is wrong for the Pacific Northwest. You set one course, and it steers another. It's off by 3º. It seems to only affect boats in the PNW. Setting the declination manually solves the problem.

Another quirk is that occasionally when you engage the AP, it will steer an unstable, oscillating course with bigger and bigger helm corrections and yaw. Switching to standby and re-engaging brings it back to its senses. A buddy of mine's J/35, which has the same setup, has the same behavior.

It is also extremely sensitive to getting all its bells and whistles correct. I made the mistake of going with the default, which included exotics such as gust and heel response. On both my boat, and the J/35, we could not get reliable downwind performance. We went back to basics --- all that stuff off --- and just focused on rudder gain and couterrudder, until we got that right. Then slowly added features. Since then, I have not had a chance to test my boat in big winds, but I'm optimistic it will do better. The J/35 certainly has.

On the plus side, the AP tracks very well in big winds (30+) once you get it dialed in. TWS and TWA measurements are dead on. The motion correction really works! The rapid refresh P-9 compass means that MARPA also works. 

It's been useful to have two nearly identical systems for testing. It allows me to figure out what's peculiar to the boat, and what's peculiar to the H5000.

I'll keep the group informed.

-tk

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[D. Scott Miller]

As an aside, while it is true that the B&G H5000/Zeus display autopilot cannot be controlled from a connected iPad/iPhone, it can be controlled from either the Zeus screen itself or via a wireless remote (the WR-10), which is Bluetooth based—the signal is strong enough to reliably control the autopilot from pulpit to pushpit on a J/46.

 

I do most of my sailing/racing singlehanded, and I use the wireless remote pretty close to 100% of the time.  Below decks offshore, I can monitor the radar, wind direction, etc. via a linked iPad and make course corrections (or switch between wind and heading modes) using the wireless.  Plus, as someone noted earlier, it makes foredeck work much simpler.

 

Scott

[Robert Kowalski]

So Scott with this WR-10 is it independent of the chart plotter? The rest of my boat is maxed out on raymarine and really don’t want to throw out the baby with the dish water...

Bob

Sailing a course less traveled
Delightfully typed on a full keyboard on a mac

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[Sean Motta]

Thr WR10 connects to the BT1 base station and connects anywhere in your N2K backbone. Its a very small controller (size of a key fob) and has great range and response rate. 

Sean 

Shazaam!

J/42 #50

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[Robert Kowalski]

Honestly Sean what your wrote is latin to me but let me understand, I take it that bt1 thing is a bluetooth transmitter and it connects to the b&g stuff and the b&g stuff has nmea ports where I connect gps, etc?

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[Sean Motta]

Apologies. Yes. The WR10 is B&G’s name for the hand held remote. BT1 is their name for the Bluetooth “puck” base station. That base station has a NMEA 2000 port on the back of it and can be connected anywhere in your network. 

Sean

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[Robert Kowalski]

Thanks all for answering my questions.

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[June Kendrick]

I am late to the party here, but want to note that on my J 44 I have the Simrad with the HLD-2000.  There is an outfit in Rhode Island that will refurb the ram.  Precision Marine Services of Tiverton.  David Bourque is the contact.  They have had it twice in 7 years - once shortly after I bought the boat & once this year after the oil ran out on the Bermuda return.

[S/V Sweet Ruca]

A second for Precision Marine Services of Tiverton & David Bourque.

Precision Marine Services
719 Bulgarmarsh Rd
Tiverton Ri 02878
+1 (401) 662-7317
Sh...@oceaninlay.com
www.oceaninlay.com

He rebuilt our original autopilot ram and it came back like new.

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[Ed S]

I’ve had Dave do a do an excellent job. Rebuilding hydraulics as well.

Regards,

Ed

------------------------------------

Ed Sitver

esi...@gmail.com

WhatsApp:  +1 303-570-5071
Mobile: +1 303-570-5071

On Dec 7, 2022, at 06:31, S/V Sweet Ruca <rucas...@gmail.com> wrote:



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[Sean Motta]

I’d say it’s unanimous then. That’s who I sent mine to and it’s working flawlessly now. 

Sean

Shazaam!

J/42 #50

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[Jay PA]

OK.  That's just wierd!  Yesterday I checked in on my J/42 on the hard in a boatyard... in Tiverton.  The backstay was slack.  When I pumped in some tension, hydraulic fluid flowed out of the cold (39F) cracked seal.  From your comments, I see David Bourque is literally a stones throw up the hill... in Tiverton.  Thanks for the spooky timely recommendation!  This group continues to amaze me.

Jay P-A

Cirrus

[Ed S]

Jay,

Call Dave and you can just drop your adjuster off at his house. His shop is in his garage.

Regards,

Ed

------------------------------------

Ed Sitver

esi...@gmail.com

WhatsApp:  +1 303-570-5071
Mobile: +1 303-570-5071

On Dec 11, 2022, at 07:47, Jay PA <svh...@gmail.com> wrote:

OK.  That's just wierd!  Yesterday I checked in on my J/42 on the hard in a boatyard... in Tiverton.  The backstay was slack.  When I pumped in some tension, hydraulic fluid flowed out of the cold (39F) cracked seal.  From your comments, I see David Bourque is literally a stones throw up the hill... in Tiverton.  Thanks for the spooky timely recommendation!  This group continues to amaze me.

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