Heads plumbing

[William Stellin]

Could anyone direct me to the great schematic of the J/42 forward heads plumbing hose route. I have to replace my Y diverter valve in the forward head and I want to make sure I know which hose goes where. Also can anyone tell me if the handle on the Y valve must be in a certain position to pump overboard directly thru the thru hull where it is legal.
Thanks
Bill #6

Sent from my iPhone

[Robert Kowalski]

Bill,
Quick reply maybe useful for more. If you have a frozen Y valve, hot water vinegar. Takes a while and a lot just keep pouring it in and pump make sure the hoses at the valve are getting warm and work the valve a little it will work loose. Then mineral oil and work it ever day.
If your forward holding tank has a pump to pump out it is on a totally different circuit than the Y valve.
Bob

Sailing a course less traveled
Delightfully typed on a full keyboard on a mac

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[William Stellin]

I just bought a new Bosworth Y Diverter valve. It has been slightly redesigned so as to not freeze. We shall see.

Thanks
Bill #6

Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 15, 2021, at 7:48 AM, Robert Kowalski <rc...@charter.net> wrote:
>
> Bill,

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[Joseph Ruzzi]

Bill,

I'm not sure how different the J/42 plumbing is compared to the J/40...if at all, but the J/40 Owners Manual is online at the following URL.   If you look at page 46 of the pdf, there's a schematic of the J/40's forward head plumbing.  https://j40sailors.files.wordpress.com/2011/11/j40_manual.pdf

FWIW, it's interesting to review that original Owners Manual.  It appears to have been typed, probably in pre- word processor days, from about 1984.   Amazing how far we've come!

Regards,

Joe

On Fri, Oct 15, 2021 at 9:06 AM William Stellin <wste...@hotmail.com> wrote:

I just bought a new Bosworth Y Diverter valve. It has been slightly redesigned so as to not freeze.  We shall see.
Thanks
Bill #6

Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 15, 2021, at 7:48 AM, Robert Kowalski <rc...@charter.net> wrote:
>
> Bill,
> Quick reply maybe useful for more. If you have a frozen Y valve, hot water vinegar. Takes a while and a lot just keep pouring it in and pump make sure the hoses at the valve are getting warm and work the valve a little it will work loose. Then mineral oil and work it ever day.
> If your forward holding tank has a pump to pump out it is on a totally different circuit than the Y valve.
> Bob
>
> Sailing a course less traveled
> Delightfully typed on a full keyboard on a mac
>
>
>
>
>
>
>> On Oct 14, 2021, at 10:09 PM, William Stellin <wste...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Could anyone direct me to the great schematic of the J/42 forward heads plumbing hose route. I have to replace my Y diverter valve in the forward head and I want to make sure I know which hose goes where. Also can anyone tell me if the handle on the Y valve must be in a certain position to pump overboard directly thru the thru hull where it is legal.
>> Thanks
>> Bill #6
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
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[WSC]

Bill -  enclosed is a pdf of what I learned when I completely replaced the FWD head plumbing on Hull #1 two years ago.  First page is from the owners manual, and second page is the "map" I had to create to understand how the heck it worked.  Final page is a pic of the hoses in place, marked with cheat labels.. I needed this to plumb my new/improved design.  Hope this helps.

Sean C - VIDA #1

[William Stellin]

Thank loads Sean. Your schematic confirmed which lines attached to the Y Valve. All I had to do today was replace the forward heads Y valve because it was frozen. It too me hours cause I still have all the old black hose that is stiff as steel pipe. The design is so complicated and virtually impossible to work on. Everything has to be done with one hand ( left hand) by feel only.   No room for a head and arms under the sink to see what you are doing. Nothing is straight forward with the routing of the hoses. It’s like spaghetti except the hose won’t bend more than a very few degrees. 

Cheers

Bill Stellin. #6

Sent from my iPhone

On Oct 15, 2021, at 3:34 PM, 'WSC' via J/4X Owner's Group <j4x-owne...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

Bill -  enclosed is a pdf of what I learned when I completely replaced the FWD head plumbing on Hull #1 two years ago.  First page is from the owners manual, and second page is the "map" I had to create to understand how the heck it worked.  Final page is a pic of the hoses in place, marked with cheat labels.. I needed this to plumb my new/improved design.  Hope this helps.

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<j42 no 1 original head plumbing.pdf>

[WSC]

Glad it helped...your description alone is giving me nightmare flashbacks.. absolutely the worst "chore" to do on a boat.  never again!

[Albert Bossar]

Hi all. 

This could not be any better timed. Sadly our forward head is totally FUBAR. 

First it won’t pump out. When offshore the manual discharge hand pump stopped working. And now when you attempt to pump out via the deck fitting nothing comes out. In fact. The pressure pushes affluent out of the manual hand discharge fitting and runs down the wall into the shower sump…

It’s disgusting. I can’t figure out what or where the pressure blockage is that is both preventing the pump out hose from sucking out the forward holding tank. Nor can I figure out why that would build pressure that is pushing affluent out of the diaphragm of the manual overboard discharge. 

Anyone have any ideas what to do ? Is it a blockage? Or a failure ? Or impossible to tell ? 

All poop 💩 jokes are appropriate at this point. 

Sent from my iPhone

On Oct 16, 2021, at 4:48 AM, 'WSC' via J/4X Owner's Group <j4x-owne...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

Glad it helped...your description alone is giving me nightmare flashbacks.. absolutely the worst "chore" to do on a boat.  never again!

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[S/Y Sweet Ruca]

We had a hairball in our in the 90 deg fitting to our vent line. Caused pump out issues. Replaced it and vent line.

It's gross stuff. Feel your pain. No fun! Good luck!

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[William Stellin]

The deck pump out circuit is pretty straight forward. Try to follow the hose from the deck down to the first Tee that you encounter. Or from the tank to the same Tee.  When I took our hoses off the Tee’s all of them had calcium that closed them down little finger diameter. There is only one Tee on that particular circuit so if you can disconnect the hoses from it you can probably unblock it. The plastic elbows and Tee’s seem especially vulnerable to calcium. The calcium turn rock hard so it’s best to just replace them rather than chip away at the stone. It only takes a little toilet paper to block the lines at these junctures. Don’t ever try to flush TP. Put it in a disposable bag. 

Bill #6

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On Oct 19, 2021, at 7:01 PM, S/Y Sweet Ruca <rucas...@gmail.com> wrote:



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[Bill Bowers]

Shit must be going around Al. We are in the same deep stuff.  Overboard pump will not prime, just heqr wheezing.  Poop water oozes along the pedestal for the bowl when trying to pump overboard or from the deck fitting. The feared ruptured pump bellows no doubt. A thread  from poop wizard Peg describing the correct way to align a rebuilt bellows pump is in our Yahoo archive. 

  Tried pumping out before haulout and only got a gallon or so.  I expect the leak in the failed overboard pump bellows is breaking suction for deck pumpout.  The deck suction hose elevates the shit column high enough to ooze out of the overboard pump bellows. 

So we will both have to completely disassemble the vanity cabinet to access the pump for rebuild. 

SO GLAD this happened BEFORE our CCA Newfoundland Cruise next summer. 

Cheers

Bill #3

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On Oct 19, 2021, at 7:01 PM, S/Y Sweet Ruca <rucas...@gmail.com> wrote:



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[Bill Bowers]

Remember deck pumpout is suction, not pressure. Air pressure from the vent lifts liquid out of the holding tank. 

Sent from my iPhone

On Oct 19, 2021, at 7:18 PM, Bill Bowers <wfb0...@gmail.com> wrote:

Shit must be going around Al. We are in the same deep stuff.  Overboard pump will not prime, just heqr wheezing.  Poop water oozes along the pedestal for the bowl when trying to pump overboard or from the deck fitting. The feared ruptured pump bellows no doubt. A thread  from poop wizard Peg describing the correct way to align a rebuilt bellows pump is in our Yahoo archive. 

[William Stellin]

Also pay close attention to the old Y valve handle position. We originally had a single plastic handle ( since replaced with an aluminum Y shaped handle). If the short end of the plastic handle is pointing to tank, it means the valve is closed in that direction, not open. 

Bill#6

Sent from my iPhone

On Oct 19, 2021, at 7:22 PM, Bill Bowers <wfb0...@gmail.com> wrote:

 Remember deck pumpout is suction, not pressure. Air pressure from the vent lifts liquid out of the holding tank. 

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[Jay PA]

FWIW, here is the schematic for my J/42 #47 forward head.  It differs from Sean's original #1 by replacing the tee in the pump out section with a second Y-valve. 

[William Stellin]

Where have you mounted the second Y valve?

Bill#6

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On Oct 19, 2021, at 9:07 PM, Jay PA <svh...@gmail.com> wrote:



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<Cirrus Fwd Head Plumbing.pdf>

[Jay Pasco-Anderson]

The forward head pumpout Y-valve is not mounted, just floating under vee berth (by previous owner).  See pic.

Jay

J/2 Cirrus #47

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[Kc Cuffel]

After months of "underperforming" aft head pump and replacing the joker valve, we finally had to face up to the fact that wasps had built nests deep into the vent.  Ugh. Background- after 18 months on the hard in Greece, when we returned to the boat, it was infested with wasps. The first clue were the nests in the companionway! We had kept finding little ones for weeks. The ionian has lots of them and they kept coming back until we left the area. ARGHH.

Kathi and Bill Cuffel

Jarana, J-42 #2

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[WSC]

I feel all ya pain.  This pdf has my redesigned plumbing layout included--page 4.   I added two Y-Valves (both "floating") as others have mentioned, but the key for me was labeling the schematic or 'user map' so I can remember how the configurations work.   I rebuilt the bosworth "guzzler" pump with the duck bill valve kits.  While not cracked, the old one was pretty deteriorated and I suspect it was a big factor in poor suction, in addition to all those awful "T"s in the original configuration.  

Sean C

[Albert Bossar]

I didn't think it could be worse as I cleaned all the oozing effluent from the shower sump. 

Wasps definitely take the cake!

Thanks all for sharing. Will be tackling this head issue this weekend. This time with painters jumpsuit!

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[rers...@netscape.net]

Hate to be a party pooper...so to speak, but I gave up on the Y valve in the forward head after a single brutal replacement episode and subsequent 2nd Y valve freeze-up.  Now my default is to leave the Y valve routed to the holding tank, and let all the effluent go there.  In my experience the whale pump did not prime unless the holding tank was over half full.  Most of the time it  just pumped air.  I replaced the Whale pump with an electric macerator pump, which will empty the holding tank overboard regardless of the effluent level in the tank.  When using a shore based pump out, I close the overboard sea cock and turn on the macerator pump, which is in line with the pump out suction, accelerating the pump-out process.  This system has served me well for the last eight or nine years.  Avoid toilet paper in the system at all costs.  Dose liberally with muriatic acid to keep the system open.  Sounds extreme, but works.

Reed Erskine  J42  #65 Cayenne

On Thursday, October 14, 2021 at 10:09:05 PM UTC-4 wste...@hotmail.com wrote:

[William Stellin]

Be very careful with acid. It can foam up violently and come back up through the toilet bowl. I never use it because one mistake can do great damage. 

Bill #6

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On Oct 20, 2021, at 1:26 PM, 'rers...@netscape.net' via J/4X Owner's Group <j4x-owne...@googlegroups.com> wrote:



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[rers...@netscape.net]

Yes Bill, we've had this conversation before about muriatic acid.  Yes it does foam up in the bowl, but I have been using it successfully for years.  It's the only thing that cuts through the calcium build-up.  My heads have been functioning since I adopted more aggressive maintenance techniques.  I used to replace head parts and joker valves, even the toilet base manifold, with some regularity.  I have learned to live with my heads.  For years I struggled with those Raritan PH II manual heads, replacing parts, bashing hoses on docks to knock out deposits, cussing and blasting heat guns on hose junctions, no more.  I am at peace with my potties.  I give them tough love.  They take my shit.

Reed  J42  #65  Cayenne  lying Ancona, Italy for rigging refit.

[Robert Kowalski]

Long ago I was told to keep a gallon of vinegar and a pint of mineral oil by the head, dump in the vinegar in when you leave and mineral oil when you get back.
Been doing it for years and I’d say my head is as trouble free as the home toilet. Just a splash each way.

Bob

Sailing a course less traveled
Delightfully typed on a full keyboard on a mac

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[Kc Cuffel]

Can we find muriatic acid in Turkey? Couldn't find it in Greece. 

K

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[Bill Bowers]

Also called hydrochloric acid. White vinegar aka acetic acid is milder and also effective. 

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On Oct 21, 2021, at 1:16 AM, Kc Cuffel <kcu...@gmail.com> wrote:



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[William Stellin]

Hydrochloric acid is even stronger than murratic acid and more dangerous. I put a plastic elbow in a container of murratic acid and it would have taken weeks to dissolve the calcium that had all but shut down the flow. Take the offending Tee’s and elbows out and replace them. Squeeze the hose along it length with extra large slip grip pliers to crack up the calcium and flush it out. The hose must be disconnected from the pump, plastic fittings, Y valve and thru hull. I found the greatest accumulation of calcium is in the hose that is the lowest especially the hose to the overboard discharge. Higher up hoses were clean.  I’ve done this and it is much easier and safer and quicker than any other method of clearing the plumbing. Finally, we use the shore bathrooms when ever possible cause I don’t want to ever go through the nightmare job again. 

Bill #6

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On Oct 21, 2021, at 9:19 AM, Bill Bowers <wfb0...@gmail.com> wrote:

 Also called hydrochloric acid. White vinegar aka acetic acid is milder and also effective. 

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[rers...@netscape.net]

Small bottles of muriatic acid (aka hydrochloric acid) can sometimes be found in chandleries as "anti-scale" in the chemical or plumbing section.  Supermarkets often carry it in the housewares section with toilet cleaners, and only identifiable by the warning notices, skull and crossbones icons, etc.  It's not terribly easy to find.  To use, carefully pour about a cup into the toilet bowl about half full of fresh water and pump a little down into the system, where it will start to sputter and foam.  Let it work for about five minutes, then add some more fresh water and a few pump strokes to get it further into the system.  The calcium, as it dissolves, will neutralize the acid, turning forming a thick slurry which will set and harden if not rinsed out.  When the acid reaction diminishes, pump through lots of fresh water, warm or hot is better than cold, and the dissolved calcium will start to clear out.  Depending on how bad the blockage is, it may take several successive treatments to be effective.  The acid won't hurt the plastic or rubber parts of the system.  Consistent use of strong vinegar and a lubricant might be effective head maintenance, but its a PIA to keep up and won't help if the system is already clogged.

I've found the muriatic acid technique to be effective with four to six month intervals, but everyone's experiences are different.  Eye protection and gloves are important when handling strong acids or alkalies.

Reed Erskine  s/v Cayenne

[Paul Rogers]

A few years ago I tackled my problems with the head plumbing. In very heavy weather on the starboard tack I had been filling my holding tank with sea water. The previous year my waste pump failed and I had a suspicion that my holding tank had been filling through the pump. I flew to Sweden with a new diaphragm for the pump along with a set of new duck valves. In order to get at the pump I enlarged the opening under the shelf which gave me easier access to the pump and Y valve. Upon removing the pump I discovered a horizontal pump utilizing flapper valves installed vertically. I replaced the diaphragm, replaced the flapper valves with duck valves, and serviced the Y valve. Enlarging the opening under the shelf will give you easier access to the Y valve. The duck valves seem to be keeping the seawater from getting to the tank.

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[William Stellin]

West Marine carries a product called “On and Off”. Which is a powerful acid cleaner for boat bottoms. If you are brave enough it should work on your plumbing. But bear in mind, if the scale is 1/4 inch it will take forever to melt it away and unless you remove the elbows and T’s you won’t know what progress you are making. There is no easy way, only a little less difficult and less dangerous.

Bill #6

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On Oct 21, 2021, at 11:12 AM, 'rers...@netscape.net' via J/4X Owner's Group <j4x-owne...@googlegroups.com> wrote:



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[Kc Cuffel]

Thanks Reed. Agree vinegar is a better preventative than a cure. Hope all goes well with your project. We're looking forward to hearing the details when it's done. 

So far, we have really enjoyed Limani Skopelos & Fethiye. Perfect weather! 

K

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[Kc Cuffel]

After crossing the pacific, we discovered our forward holding tank full of nice clear sea water. Not sure how far we carried it. Doh.

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[Robert Kowalski]

I have a "on and off" story. I use it for polishing stainless in those tough to get to spots , spray it on let it sit a little tooth brushing and rinse... I kept it in a bucket with all the other cleaning stuff in the locker with my spinnaker well until I realized that just from the outgassing from the spray bottle ate it! Totally ruined it ( the spinnaker),now the bottle that it came in sealed that I have on the top shelf in a metal cabinet in my finishing room just from the out gassing from the sealed bottle has rusted the top and all the surroundings in a radius of about a foot. One time I was doing the waterline with it was using cat food tin and one of those throw a way bristle brushes ate through the can and the brush before I got all the way around the boat and that was the 32!
That shit is good just a bitch to store.

Bob

Sailing a course less traveled
Delightfully typed on a full keyboard on a mac

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[William Stellin]

I made the mistake of pouring it an aluminum pan. Within minutes it ate through the pan and was gone. Luckily I was outside washing the waterline. It is bat shit strong but no stronger than other acids talked about in this forum and just as dangerous. The fumes are equally deadly. I will never use it in an enclosed space.

Bill #6

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> On Oct 21, 2021, at 2:22 PM, Robert Kowalski <rc...@charter.net> wrote:
>
> I have a "on and off" story. I use it for polishing stainless in those tough to get to spots , spray it on let it sit a little tooth brushing and rinse... I kept it in a bucket with all the other cleaning stuff in the locker with my spinnaker well until I realized that just from the outgassing from the spray bottle ate it! Totally ruined it ( the spinnaker),now the bottle that it came in sealed that I have on the top shelf in a metal cabinet in my finishing room just from the out gassing from the sealed bottle has rusted the top and all the surroundings in a radius of about a foot. One time I was doing the waterline with it was using cat food tin and one of those throw a way bristle brushes ate through the can and the brush before I got all the way around the boat and that was the 32!

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[Bill Bowers]

I have ordered a pair of service kits for our Bosworth GH-M500D holding tank discharge pump.  Their website premium blackwater option kit has 2 Buna N duckbill valves and a Viton fluoropolymer diaphragm which is considerably more resistant than the standard buna N nitrile rubber diaphragm to vinegar and diluted muriatic acid.  Bosworth rates their diaphragm life at 1 million cycles, which is 7 days of continuous operation of the motorized version of this pump.  I suspect the acid maintenance regime will shorten the life of the stock buna N diaphragms.  Bosworth just called to say the Viton diaphragm is backordered until Dec because of material shortage.  Probably worth the wait.

Also ordered a new Bosworth Y valve as the old one is badly corroded.

Bil #3

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[Bill Bowers]

We have a very stiff PVC Bosworth 1.5" dia hose Sea-lect Y valve next to our head. I ordered a replacement valve from Bosworth and read that the molded internal rotating seat is Buna-N nitrile rubber. The directions say DO NOT expose to acid. Nitrile is only rated fair for exposure to vinegar or dilute muriatic acid. So our vinegar descaling is probably causing our molded valve seats to harden and swell. The good news is the molded 1/3 cylindrical seat for the 1.5" Bosworth Y valve is part #5 available for $5.25 online. Doug, the engineer at Bosworth, states it has a 20 year shelf life so we can order a couple spares and be good to "go".


Meanwhile we also have a ruptured Buna-N diaphragm on the Bosworth Guzzler holding tank discharge pump. To avoid any potential acid issue I have ordered a Bosworth replacement diaphragm and a spare molded from Viton flouropolymer elastomer. Viton is nearly acid proof. That is a stock part but is on backorder til Dec due to material shortage.

Bill #3

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[William Stellin]

You make good points about the Bosworth Y Valves. They are easily upgraded and repairable. The upgrade is a slightly raised circle of rubber that fits the ports. It’s hard to describe. Easy to replace. The rubber seat slides into groves in the valve. Take it apart (3long machine screws) take the old seat out, replace it with the new improved style and grease liberally with supplied white grease. That’s it. 

Bill #6

Sent from my iPhone

On Oct 29, 2021, at 12:46 PM, Bill Bowers <wfb0...@gmail.com> wrote:



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[Michael Moradzadeh]

Reviving an older, but relevant, thread.

I am doing a complete replumb of the aft head on my J/40.

I am thinking of putting the vented loop AFTER the y-valve. Do I really need one for the run from the head to the holding tank?

It seems to me it would take a pretty crazy situation to get a siphon action from the tank to the head, or am I totally missing the point?

[Dick York]

Michael-

It seems to me that an anti-syphon valve should be between the final discharge to the sea and anything before then.

In my system, when pumping directly overboard, the hose comes from the Y-valve (then through a T, see below) then up to the high loop with anti-syphon valve, down to the through-hull.

As JBoats set up the system to manually pump from the holding tank, there is a hose from the holding tank to the hand pump and then to the aforementioned T in the overboard outlet line.  

I tend to think backward on this... Starting from the through-hull, I want my high loop with anti-syphon valve next, then the source(s).

.......Dick York, J/46#9, ARAGORN

 

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[Michael Moradzadeh]

Dick, that makes sense.  And it saves me from double-venting!

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[Ed Sitver]

Michael,

Here’s another take on it, which I arrived at when I rebuilt my forward head last month: eliminate the direct overboard flush.

This set up greatly simplifies the plumbing: no vented loop and overall less hose. The only risk of a siphon seems to be from the through hull to the holding tank, but the tank vents should provide a siphon break (I think). Additionally, that seacock is open only when actively pumping overboard via the macerating pump (which now draws from a pickup tube instead of the bottom of the old tank). I think having a vented loop also guarantees one or two spots that will hold waste in the hose, accelerating permeation. Plus it should really vent to the outside of the boat, which is not how mine was set up. 

Bottom line, I didn’t use the direct overboard flush enough to warrant the additional complexity in plumbing. How often to you flush overboard vs. pumping? 

The plumbing is:

1. Hose from the toilet to the tank.

2. Hose to deck pump out from a tee on the hose between the tank pickup tube and macerator pump.

3. Hose from the macerator to the through hull. 

Only three simple hose runs and pretty much no flat spots to hold waste. I installed one third of the hose that I took out, but I was replacing a VacuFlush with a Raritan Marine Elegance (doesn’t fit great, but fine). The VacuFlush has worked great, and I still have one in the aft head, but I was battling a head smell and the frustration led me to start from scratch to build a 100% new, much more simple set up. Turns out my old hoses were holding A LOT of waste, making for an unpleasant demo project. 

I don’t have pictures or a diagram handy, but can have both soon if you’d like to see them. 

Ed

[Michael Moradzadeh]

Ed, that sounds very sensible and is similar to the setup I enjoyed on my Passport 40.

I guess part of the challenge is that I am still in the mindset of an ocean-crosser (15x Pacific) and am thinking through-hull first. The primary intent for THIS boat is daysailing with the occasional run down the coast.

The current plan is to prioritize the crazy-long run from the head to the tank all the way aft, keeping the line high and sloping down to the tank instead of keeping it low and full of campaign promises as the original design calls for.  After that, a tee on the pumpout line to allow the on-boat pumpout to void the tank through the through-hull.

Upgrading the hose from the shields nightmare to Raritan Saniflex should hold me for a good ten years, by which time I expect to be sufficiently enfeebled not to care.

The new hose is slightly larger diameter than the old, and I plan to pass through the bulkhead at an angle, so now I have to go find my darned hole saw....

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[Ed S]

Makes sense Michael. I don’t do longer passages beyond the 3nm mark very often these days on my boat, and I decided that even if I do take her to Europe someday, I’ll deal with running the pump for that ride or more likely, just use the aft head overboard. The danger is that I now have tons of empty space under the v-berth that might attract stored items. Hopefully very light ones. 

I also didn’t realize you where running to the aft holding tank. I’ve a tank under the v-berth and one aft. The aft tank on the 42 is nice, because it gravity dumps.

I was going bonkers trying to decide which hose to install, and wound up with Trident. I suspect they are all solid for quite some time, but the flexibility of the Raritan was appealing. Oddly enough, I downsized the hose from the toilet to the tank. The outlet on the macerating toilet is 1”, even if you put 1.5” hose, and Raritan say to not cut the outlet when using larger hose. Seemed pointless to put on 1.5, so hoping the macerator works well so I don’t have to go on an all smoothie diet.

Ed

------------------------------------
Ed Sitver
esi...@gmail.com
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[Steven Novak]

I did a similar setup to Ed, with removal of the direct overboard plumbing to simplify things.  I did however put a vented loop immediately after the toilet, in the run between the toilet and the tank.  That way, after the initial uphill from the toilet, it’s a strong downhill run to the tank to help flush out most of the line and prevent standing waste.  It also helps prevent the tank from backing up to the toilet if it’s full.

Regardless of vented loops, I’m a big proponent of dip tubes on top of the tank - eliminates waste standing in the tank, lessens the risk of a “weeping” fitting, and when you eventually need to replace hoses makes it less of a nightmare job.

Steve

J/37 Monomoit

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[Michael Moradzadeh]

I certainly gave some thought to replacing or relocating the tank.  If it were forward, just behind the bulkhead, the runs would be shorter and "gravity dump" would be possible. But I am balancing the hassle with the benefit.

I'm thinking of recognizing that any hose after the bottom exit is effectively part of the tank, and getting some of the super-expensive silicone-based hose for that 2-3 foot run.

I love the tip to use a vented loop to the tank to allow the hose to empty itself.  That had NOT occurred to me!

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[Ed Sitver]

I do like Steve’s idea of the vented loop between toilet and tank. Or at least just a high loop.  Not sure I have a “sharp” enough turn at the high point to aggressively flow downhill to tank. 

For now, I’ll rely on tank gauge and toilet to mitigate backup via toilet and see how it goes.  

Ed

[Michael Moradzadeh]

Tell us about your tank gauge!

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[Ed S]

Michael,

The gauges are fantastic. I use two different styles of nicely built, solid, stainless senders from KUS (https://kus-usa.com/application-solutions/marine/). I have the “open” one for freshwater, and for the waste tanks, the version with the float encased to prevent clogging/jamming. I believe they have options for fuel tanks as well.

They are somewhat programmable to tank shape and mine are wired to the four inputs on my Victron touchscreen monitor. I have the blackwater calibration weighted towards accuracy near full, and the freshwater for near empty. I guess I’m  four or five years in now, and they have proven to be accurate and reliable. 

Although I had a fitting molded into my new forward holding tank, the senders have an option to be installed in existing tanks without the need for a hand underneath. 

The gauges are well worth the effort. After years of moving cushions and peering into spaces with flashlights to determine tank levels. Now I tap my finger on a screen at the nav station to view levels. 

  

Regards,

Ed

------------------------------------

Ed Sitver

esi...@gmail.com

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On Jun 7, 2025, at 10:07, Michael Moradzadeh <m...@yachtpc.com> wrote:



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