ISIS II file transfer utilities

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Paul Birkel

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May 1, 2021, 5:43:18 AM5/1/21
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All;

 

I’m making steady progress on rehabilitating my MDS-230.  All the Kings horses and all the Kings men are hard at work :->.

 

Looking ahead a bit, what approaches are people using to transfer software from the fufu archive to their ISIS-based equipment?

 

Is there any how-to documentation that can guide me in setting up such a path once I have ISIS II operational (along with some serial ports)?

 

Thank you,

paul

Vale, Martyn

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May 1, 2021, 8:21:59 AM5/1/21
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Hi Paul,

 

If you have no boot floppies at all use my utility IMG2MDS see here:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XonRevJNwek&t=1129s

 

all is under MartynV/img2mds on the Google Drive if you want everything.

 

To transfer the files I’d suggest using Jack’s USBJ utilities again on the Google Drive under Jack/USB Utilities

 

You can compile Kermit, but it’s quite slow unfortunately and only the earliest version is practical to use speed wise.

 

The other option is to collect all the files together and use Mark’s utilities to create a disk image of those files using MKIDSK

 

I’ve been experimenting with Greaseweazle, following on from Jon’s earlier experiments and it works really well and can successfully produce M2FM floppies very quickly. The source flux files need to be created from working M2FM floppies however. I’m probably going to create a library of working .scp images for Greaseweazle and will make these available. If you are using 3.5” floppies only the very cheap F1 “Blue Pill” Greaseweazle is required and I can supply any images you may require.

 

Bye

Martyn.

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mark.p...@btinternet.com

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May 1, 2021, 8:25:26 AM5/1/21
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All
I am considering adding scp support to my flux2imd tool and will consider adding an option to mkidsk to generate a scp file. 

Regards
Mark Ogden
From: intel-...@googlegroups.com <intel-...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Vale, Martyn <m.v...@ucl.ac.uk>
Sent: Saturday, May 1, 2021 1:21:55 PM
To: intel-...@googlegroups.com <intel-...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: RE: intel-devsys ISIS II file transfer utilities
 

mark.p...@btinternet.com

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May 1, 2021, 8:30:11 AM5/1/21
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Between ISIS systems the FTRANS utility should work at up to 19200 bps. I started a windows implementation but since I have no way of testing it is currently on hold
Mark 

Regards
Mark Ogden
From: mark.p...@btinternet.com <mark.p...@btinternet.com>
Sent: Saturday, May 1, 2021 1:25:23 PM
To: intel-...@googlegroups.com <intel-...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: intel-devsys ISIS II file transfer utilities
 

Vale, Martyn

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May 1, 2021, 8:34:52 AM5/1/21
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Hi Mark,

 

That’s interesting I tried FTRANS over Christmas after your suggestion and it’s really quick between the MDS-800 and the iPDS.

 

I was thinking of creating a Windows FTRANS with Python maybe and then putting an FTRANS front end on IMG2MDS.

 

If you’ve got any code I can help you test would be happy to give it a go.

 

Thanks

Martyn.

mark.p...@btinternet.com

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May 1, 2021, 8:38:41 AM5/1/21
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Martin
My GitHub site contains my decompiled source for FTRANS and my notes including the protocol
Mark

Regards
Mark Ogden
Sent: Saturday, May 1, 2021 1:34:49 PM

Vale, Martyn

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May 1, 2021, 8:39:08 AM5/1/21
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Hi Mark,

 

The scp file that Greaseweazle creates from M2FM floppies are fine for disk duplication, however the header is screwed up and nothing currently I can find will extract the files even after modifying the header.

 

You can however take a iPDS or MDS-IV floppy in .imd format and convert to .scp with HxC and produce a viable bootable floppy.

 

If you want some .scp files let me know.

 

Bye

Martyn.

mark.p...@btinternet.com

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May 1, 2021, 8:43:19 AM5/1/21
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Martyn
The SCP format will record the flux transitions but has no explicit support for M2FM. Once I complete my modifications to flux2imd it should extract them. Unfortunately I have some structural changes to do you to support kryoflux and scp
Mark

Regards
Mark Ogden
Sent: Saturday, May 1, 2021 1:39:05 PM

Paul Birkel

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May 1, 2021, 12:25:37 PM5/1/21
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Thank you Martyn.  Nice video.  Maybe I’ll be your MDS II tester later this year.

 

Where are Jacks’ USB utilities documented?  These depend on the Hobbytronics board, correct?

 

WRT “collect all the files together”, what archives would contain such?

 

I am planning for 3.5” drives for primary-use so the Greaseweazle approach sounds interesting.

 

Apologies for the fufu reference; relates to an entirely different topic!

forjack842

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May 1, 2021, 3:49:42 PM5/1/21
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Kermit PC to ISIS was my initial transfer method then with USB ADAPTER installed....bam 



Sent via the Samsung Galaxy A11, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone


-------- Original message --------
From: Paul Birkel <pbi...@gmail.com>
Date: 5/1/21 2:43 AM (GMT-08:00)
Subject: intel-devsys ISIS II file transfer utilities

--

forjack842

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May 1, 2021, 4:54:01 PM5/1/21
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Let me add that to get my first boot disk I hand entered code into the 225 via monitor that would 1) read from serial port 1 into memory and 2) write from memory to the 202 DD controller a track at a time. A bit clumsy but the code is really simple since the 202 is a very easy interface and the serial port read is in the monitor. I'm trying to remember how I sent it from the PC....probably from a terminal program using an IMG file via hex editor  selecting a track and sending it.
Once I had a bootable floppy getting Kermit to the HDD was done same way except writing memory to disk was via ISIS. After that Kermit then graduated to USB

mark.p...@btinternet.com

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May 1, 2021, 5:00:19 PM5/1/21
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An interesting possibility would be to look at libdsk. There is some simple code that runs on cp/m that allows libdsk to write sectors. As the spice is available it should be possible to adapt for ISIS
Loading a compiled version on to ISIS could be done by transferring a hex file via the serial port and using hexobj 
Matk

Regards
Mark Ogden
From: 'forjack842' via intel-devsys <intel-...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, May 1, 2021 9:53:51 PM
To: intel-...@googlegroups.com <intel-...@googlegroups.com>

Bill Beech (NJ7P)

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May 1, 2021, 5:24:47 PM5/1/21
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Mark,

What does that buy us?

Bill

Paul Birkel

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May 2, 2021, 2:15:05 AM5/2/21
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Bill;

 

If I understand correctly, that buys us the ability to directly generate 3.5” floppy disks (using Greaseweazle and a conventional 1.44 MB 3.5” FDD) that can be used by the MDS 202 DD disk controller (via the S800 adapter, or equivalent) in lieu of 8” FDD.  IMO that’s a good idea from the standpoint of 8” media (and drive) preservation.  Not that I don’t love both from BITD, but I am a bit concerned about depending on them long-term as my daily-driver.  Given the M2FM format we don’t really have any other practical media/drive choice with the 202 controller, do we?

 

Mark has my support for enhancing the MDS “media management” ecosystem :-}!  Thank you.

 

-----

paul

Paul Birkel

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May 2, 2021, 2:35:29 AM5/2/21
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Isn’t then your (legacy) procedure equivalent to the img2mds procedure developed/documented by Martyn?

 

See:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XonRevJNwek

 

He uses TeraTerm: https://deramp.com/downloads/teraterm.zip

 

Where can I acquire a compiled copy of Kermit for ISIS II?  I do find these resources:

 

http://www.columbia.edu/kermit/ftp/c/mdsmit.bwr

http://www.columbia.edu/kermit/ftp/c/mdsker.doc

 

And then at http://www.columbia.edu/kermit/archive.html I found these:

 

Intel:

Kermit for the Intel Microcomputer Development System

ISIS Kermit

 

1985/11/01

P/LM

Intel MDS 80

intelmdsa.tar.gz

intelmdsa.zip

file list

ISIS Kermit

3

1987/04/06

P/LM-86

Intel Series II, III, IV computers with ISIS

intelmdsb.tar.gz

intelmdsb.zip

file list manual

 

I’d need to figure out how to compile that.  And I wonder just how compatible that v3 implementation would be with a more recent PC-side implementation.

forjack842

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May 2, 2021, 3:42:04 AM5/2/21
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First off I looked on my PC for my MDS KERMIT. Not there so its in the MDS225. 
You can't use it till you have a functioning 225 system disk.You have to xfer into memory via the monitor then write to disk.
 On the PC Tele-Term or many other terminal programs will do. Raw binary transfer.

You need formatted floppies on the MDS side before you can do anything anyway. You can sit down with the 202 manual and learn the IOPB  interface. Its quite simple to format disks and read/write to from. Nice 202 does all the work and does all the DMA overhead. 
You just hand enter about 16 bytes at 1000,2000, 3000 and 4000 hex for example one for format, read, write and status. All 4  terminate in RST7 as I remember to bounce you back to the monitor. Or have somebody close format and put a system on several floppies of your choice and bypass all the fun of bringing her up off the floor via the monitor

Vale, Martyn

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May 2, 2021, 6:17:29 AM5/2/21
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All,

 

It might be worth pointing out that IMG2MDS creates a bootable disk with no need for anything other than a serial cable. After keying in a simple bootloader to down load a full hex loader both baud rate configuration and IMG2MDS itself can be downloaded. Once IMG2MDS is run it can format a blank disk and then generate a bootable disk by transferring the disk image via Xmodem. All very simple hopefuly. I’ve had reports back from several viewers of my Youtube channel that the process has been successful and I use IMG2MDS frequently to create floppies from Mark’s archive.

 

Paul,

 

I can probably supply a working Kermit in a disk image perhaps along with the USB Utilities, this would get you going fairly quickly. I should have access to an MDS II in a month or so and this will make things easier for me to support MDS II/III users.

 

Bye

Martyn.

Vale, Martyn

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May 2, 2021, 6:29:23 AM5/2/21
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Hi Paul,

 

When you run any of the USBJ utilities they spit out a helpful usage message. You can see these in the source code of course.

 

Yes, you need the Hobbytronics board with the USB Flash Drive Firmware.

 

Greaseweazle is by far the simplest approach as nothing is needed other than your choice of Greaseweazel as I said before the F1 model is the cheapest to build, but there’s plenty of versions available quite cheaply just have a look at the Facebook page:

 

https://www.facebook.com/groups/greaseweazle

 

and PM Keir with your chosen model.

 

I can generate any SCP image you want quite quickly and within 2 mins you’ll have a bootable floppy ready to go.

mark.p...@btinternet.com

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May 2, 2021, 6:51:36 AM5/2/21
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If you need a version of Kermit, the source is on my GitHub site and the ref subdirectory within the source directory contains a precompiled version
Mark

Regards
Mark Ogden
Sent: Sunday, May 2, 2021 11:29:20 AM
To: intel-...@googlegroups.com <intel-...@googlegroups.com>

forjack842

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May 2, 2021, 2:11:12 PM5/2/21
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Hey I love the IMG2MDS sounds like a fun tool@!!

mark.p...@btinternet.com

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May 2, 2021, 6:17:36 PM5/2/21
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Martin
Some suggestions that should speed up img2mds
1) if you had a special first data block it could be used to remove the need to send 52 sectors for a SD disk and also empty tracks. The rational would be to have a byte for each track with two bits set/cleared one for whether the track is empty and another to indicate that only the first 26 sectors are to be transferred and written.
If implemented a simple pc based utility would be needed to process the img file to add the header and remove the irrelevant data
The approach wins on two fronts, I.e. faster disk writes and lower data transfers
2) optionally if format is required, format a single track only when the data is received. This allows a head step to be removed and by issuing the data write immediately after the format you will reduce the latency. Admittedly this may not give much overall improvement given the serial link transfer rate
3) receive directly to the track buffer removing the 128 byte copy. Minor optimisation 
4) potentially receive data whist a disk operation is happening, e.g. check the disk status after a data block transfer.

Note img2mds does not implement the Intel standard interleave / skew model. I have sketched out some asm code to implement the standard and once written and tested will share with you


Regards
Mark
Sent: Sunday, May 2, 2021 11:17:24 AM
To: intel-...@googlegroups.com <intel-...@googlegroups.com>

Bill Beech (NJ7P)

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May 2, 2021, 7:04:17 PM5/2/21
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Paul,

All my real systems use 3.5- or 8-inch disks.  Been doing that since 2014. Not sure why we need greasweazel in the mix. Guess I am just old and confused...

Bill

forjack842

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May 2, 2021, 7:39:12 PM5/2/21
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As I recall Formatting via the 201 &  202 is pretty much self contained. You call out the track and starting sector and it lays down the complete formatted track and I believe if there is a skew its already in there



Sent via the Samsung Galaxy A11, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone


Roger Arrick

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May 2, 2021, 7:45:10 PM5/2/21
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Side note regarding formatting:

For MDS CP/M there are special utilities for formatting called SDFORM and DDFORM
for SD and DD disks respectively. Of course, a DD 202 controller set can't do
SD, and a SD 201 controller set can't do DD.

Use SYSGEN for SD and SYSGEN2 for DD.

I have both CP/M 2.2 and 1.4 for MDS.

_______________________________________________
Roger Arrick
Ro...@Arrick.com
Tyler, TX
>> *From:* intel-...@googlegroups.com
>> [mailto:intel-...@googlegroups.com] *On Behalf Of *Bill Beech (NJ7P)
>> *Sent:* Saturday, May 01, 2021 5:24 PM
>> *To:* intel-...@googlegroups.com
>> *Subject:* Re: intel-devsys ISIS II file transfer utilities
>>
>>
>>
>> Mark,
>>
>> What does that buy us?
>>
>> Bill
>>
>> On 5/1/2021 5:25 AM, 'mark.p...@btinternet.com
>> <mailto:mark.p...@btinternet.com>' via intel-devsys wrote:
>>
>> All
>>
>> I am considering adding scp support to my flux2imd tool and will
>> consider adding an option to mkidsk to generate a scp file.
>>
>>
>>
>> Regards
>>
>> Mark Ogden
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> *From:* intel-...@googlegroups.com
>> <mailto:intel-...@googlegroups.com>
>> <intel-...@googlegroups.com>
>> <mailto:intel-...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Vale, Martyn
>> <m.v...@ucl.ac.uk> <mailto:m.v...@ucl.ac.uk>
>> *Sent:* Saturday, May 1, 2021 1:21:55 PM
>> *To:* intel-...@googlegroups.com
>> <mailto:intel-...@googlegroups.com>
>> <intel-...@googlegroups.com> <mailto:intel-...@googlegroups.com>
>> *Subject:* RE: intel-devsys ISIS II file transfer utilities
>>
>>
>>
>> Hi Paul,
>>
>>
>>
>> If you have no boot floppies at all use my utility IMG2MDS see here:
>>
>>
>>
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XonRevJNwek&t=1129s
>> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XonRevJNwek&t=1129s>
>>
>>
>>
>> all is under MartynV/img2mds on the Google Drive if you want
>> everything.
>>
>>
>>
>> To transfer the files I’d suggest using Jack’s USBJ utilities
>> again on the Google Drive under Jack/USB Utilities
>>
>>
>>
>> You can compile Kermit, but it’s quite slow unfortunately and only
>> the earliest version is practical to use speed wise.
>>
>>
>>
>> The other option is to collect all the files together and use
>> Mark’s utilities to create a disk image of those files using MKIDSK
>>
>>
>>
>> I’ve been experimenting with Greaseweazle, following on from Jon’s
>> earlier experiments and it works really well and can successfully
>> produce M2FM floppies very quickly. The source flux files need to
>> be created from working M2FM floppies however. I’m probably going
>> to create a library of working .scp images for Greaseweazle and
>> will make these available. If you are using 3.5” floppies only the
>> very cheap F1 “Blue Pill” Greaseweazle is required and I can
>> supply any images you may require.
>>
>>
>>
>> Bye
>>
>> Martyn.
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* intel-...@googlegroups.com
>> <mailto:intel-...@googlegroups.com>
>> [mailto:intel-...@googlegroups.com] *On Behalf Of *Paul Birkel
>> *Sent:* 01 May 2021 10:44
>> *To:* intel-...@googlegroups.com
>> <mailto:intel-...@googlegroups.com>
>> *Subject:* intel-devsys ISIS II file transfer utilities
>>
>>
>>
>> All;
>>
>>
>>
>> I’m making steady progress on rehabilitating my MDS-230. All the
>> Kings horses and all the Kings men are hard at work :->.
>>
>>
>>
>> Looking ahead a bit, what approaches are people using to transfer
>> software from the fufu archive to their ISIS-based equipment?
>>
>>
>>
>> Is there any how-to documentation that can guide me in setting up
>> such a path once I have ISIS II operational (along with some
>> serial ports)?
>>
>>
>>
>> Thank you,
>>
>> paul
>>
>> --
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forjack842

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May 2, 2021, 7:46:11 PM5/2/21
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Kind of agree there Bill....when faced with a 225 with a monitor and a 720 waiting but no system disks, after getting an image file of the bookable asm80 system disk it took a few hours to send 512k a track at a time to the 225 memory and write it to a 8" floppy. Tinkering with all the wisbang make it easy utilities take longer just getting them working



Sent via the Samsung Galaxy A11, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone


-------- Original message --------
From: "Bill Beech (NJ7P)" <nj...@nj7p.info>
Date: 5/2/21 4:31 PM (GMT-08:00)

Bill Beech (NJ7P)

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May 2, 2021, 7:56:38 PM5/2/21
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Roger,

Could I get the image for the 1.4 version of CP/M?

Thanks!

Bill

On 5/2/2021 4:45 PM, Roger Arrick wrote:
> Side note regarding formatting:
>
> For MDS CP/M there are special utilities for formatting called SDFORM
> and DDFORM for SD and DD disks respectively.  Of course, a DD 202
> controller set can'tdo SD, and a SD 201 controller set can't do DD.
>>> media/drive choice withthe 202 controller, do we?
>>>     I’ve been experimenting with Greaseweazle, following on fromJon’s

Roger Arrick

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May 2, 2021, 9:29:30 PM5/2/21
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Yes of course Bill.
This V1.4 is a new disk that was in the batch I bought on ebay.
I've never tried to copy it but will give it a whirl.
I think I have your shipping address around here somewhere.

_______________________________________________
Roger Arrick
Ro...@Arrick.com
Tyler, TX




mark.p...@btinternet.com

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May 3, 2021, 6:02:19 AM5/3/21
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Martyn

Firstly sorry my ipad changed your name last time.

 

Looking at IMG2MDS, is there any reason you don’t use the inbuilt R (read hex file command) in the MDS monitor. You would need to assign the READER logical device to match the same physical port as the CONSOLE logical device, but it should read in a hex file directly.

As IMG2MDS is reasonably short (4k) you should be able to load it directly.

 

Mark

Vale, Martyn

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May 3, 2021, 12:50:07 PM5/3/21
to intel-...@googlegroups.com

 

Hi Mark,

 

I have used the R command in the monitor, unfortunately however it has a couple of draw backs in that you need two serial ports to use it on an MDS-800 which in standard form it doesn’t have (second serial is TTY 110 Baud Current Loop ) and it expects to receive data immediately otherwise it exits. The only way to get it to work is to pad the front of the Hex file with nulls and then start sending the file before entering the R command, which is a bit fiddly having to swap quickly between to serial terminal screens. Obviously if used as intended it starts the paper tape device automatically and then all would work smoothly.

 

Thanks for you optimisation hints, definitely worth considering. I think the biggest hold up is the third hand implementation of Xmodem as you suggested before using the FTRANS protocol would be way quicker.

 

As you point out the sector skew isn’t correct as at the time I couldn’t find the skew layout information, so I just experimented to get the fastest transfer of data. Oddly enough the floppies created with IMG2MDS actually boot faster than a regular ISIS skewed floppy. Of course this doesn’t mean they read or write faster over the entire surface as I’ve never attempted to check that and I’m sure Intel knew what they were doing !

 

Currently IMG2MDS can’t handle SD disks, you have to pad out the IMG file before sending them. Once I’ve got a single density controller I may well add support but I’m not sure how useful this would be.

 

Bye

Martyn.

Vale, Martyn

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May 3, 2021, 1:02:47 PM5/3/21
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Hi Bill,

 

Greaseweazle doesn’t emulate a floppy drive it just allows you to create and restore disk images.

 

The main advantages are:

 

1)     It’s dirt cheap and well supported

2)     If you are producing non M2FM floppies you can convert your IMD file to SCP (with HxC)  and then create your bootable floppy directly using Greaseweazle and a suitable floppy drive. This obviously avoids the need for an old PC with an unobtanium floppy controller with the support you require.

3)     M2FM bootable floppies can be created very quickly (2 min’s or so) from an SCP file prepared from a floppy prepared on a working MDS system.

 

I find it useful to backup floppies I create with Greaseweazle as then if I wreck them I can very quickly recreate them saving all the time and effort in creating the original.

 

As an example if both you and Roger had a Greaseweazle, Roger could create your CP/M 1.4 image in 4 minutes or so upload it to the google drive and you could download it and recreate and exact copy in around 2 minutes. Does that not sound attractive ?

 

Bye

Martyn.

Roger Arrick

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May 3, 2021, 1:40:14 PM5/3/21
to intel-...@googlegroups.com
Gonna make some 8" MDS800/II boot disk copies today for preservation purposes:

CP/M 1.4
CP/M 2.2
ISIS-II 4.1
Osiris 3.0

Can do SD and DD.

Send me an email if you're interested.

My blank disk inventory is limited so be gentle.

Hopefully most are building disks from disk images these days.

Herb Johnson

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May 3, 2021, 3:37:46 PM5/3/21
to intel-...@googlegroups.com, Vale, Martyn
Martyn, I find myself, these Greaseweazels are just "UN-attractive" to
me, nothing personal to you. They are to me, modern technology that my
old-person vintage computing skills, and shaky hands and weak eyes, are
of no help to deploy. No old person likes to say such things, but it's a
consideration that modern younger people don't often have in mind.

I can't find a site to buy one of these puppies "cold", ready to go.
Maybe on eBay, for $60 or $100, sporadically. I don't see them on any
for-sale Web site. What I won't do, is send Gerbers to China for boards
to build myself (eyes, hands, remember?). I can't play Linux like a
piano to run it. And most 'weazel Web pages, are specific to some brand
of 8-bit vintage computer. And by the way those sites are already a year
or two old. Also: a lot of them are Euro or UK - which is not a problem
except I wont' pay $40 postage for that $10 board.

So while I have reasons as I've described, I'm absolutely SURE they will
read as "too old to play" by someone who is in the thick of exactly this
kind of fun. But I'm in vintage computing for other purposes than
playing in real time with 32-bit $10 microcontrollers. Maybe, I'm just
looking through the other end of the telescope.

Thoughts for your considerations,
Herb Johnson

On 5/3/2021 1:02 PM, Vale, Martyn wrote:
> Hi Bill,
>
> Greaseweazle doesn’t emulate a floppy drive it just allows you to create
> and restore disk images.
>
> The main advantages are:
>
> 1)It’s dirt cheap and well supported
>
> 2)If you are producing non M2FM floppies you can convert your IMD file
> to SCP (with HxC)  and then create your bootable floppy directly using
> Greaseweazle and a suitable floppy drive. This obviously avoids the need
> for an old PC with an unobtanium floppy controller with the support you
> require.
>
> 3)M2FM bootable floppies can be created very quickly (2 min’s or so)
> from an SCP file prepared from a floppy prepared on a working MDS system.
>
> I find it useful to backup floppies I create with Greaseweazle as then
> if I wreck them I can very quickly recreate them saving all the time and
> effort in creating the original.
>
> As an example if both you and Roger had a Greaseweazle, Roger could
> create your CP/M 1.4 image in 4 minutes or so upload it to the google
> drive and you could download it and recreate and exact copy in around 2
> minutes. Does that not sound attractive ?
>
> Bye
>
> Martyn.

--
Herbert R. Johnson, New Jersey in the USA
http://www.retrotechnology.com OR .net
preserve, recover, restore 1970's computing
email: hjohnson AT retrotechnology DOT com
or try later herbjohnson AT comcast DOT net

Jon Hales

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May 3, 2021, 4:48:51 PM5/3/21
to intel-...@googlegroups.com, Vale, Martyn
Herb (copied to others)

Some background to explain the Greaseweazle. It's not just to enable people to read floppies (including 8 inch M2FM). If you have one of these devices, you can write a disk on the basis of a file you received from someone.

If reading and writing disks is of no interest, then I suggest you don't read further.

The outstanding feature of the Greaseweazle system is simplicity. To read the flux transitions on a disk, the switch is -r. To write, the switch is -w (plus the filename, etc). As Martyn has explained, the process is quick. 

[However, I don't need to tell you that reading old disks is not always easy].

For information, the best place to start is github.com/keirf/Greaseweazle - look on that page for 'Read the GitHub Wiki' towards the bottom left.

The Greaseweazle is available in various versions, as bare parts or assembled. Several people have taken the initial design and improved on it (or perhaps, just elaborated it). These are described with photos on the Github page headed 'Greaseweazle Models' which also identifies the different STM32 versions in use.

In UK, a seller called 'SellMyRetro' (Aerobicant) sells the F7 Plus version for the equivalent of about $50 (out of stock today).

There is at least one US seller on eBay.com as at today: eBay item number: 233986775347

There's also a US seller on Tindie.com who sells the 'ready to use' F7 Plus for $100.

There is at least one YouTube video that explains the Greaseweazle and I think compares it with other devices that read flux transitions.

Regards

Jon

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Bill Beech (NJ7P)

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May 3, 2021, 5:08:38 PM5/3/21
to intel-...@googlegroups.com
Roger,

I can work from a disk image.  I don't need physical media.

Thanks!

Bill

Bill Beech (NJ7P)

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May 3, 2021, 5:25:31 PM5/3/21
to intel-...@googlegroups.com
Martyn, Herb,

This appears to be a modern Catweasle replacement.  I suffer the same
afflictions as Herb, but I am intrigued by this board.  What bothers me
is finding a real "Blue Pill" amoungst all the CHICOM clones.   I am
giving it a shit!

Bill

On 5/3/2021 12:36 PM, Herb Johnson wrote:
> Martyn, I find myself, these Greaseweazels are just "UN-attractive" to
> me, nothing personal to you. They are to me, modern technology that my
> old-person vintage computing skills, and shaky hands and weak eyes,
> are of no help to deploy. No old person likes to say such things, but
> it's a consideration that modern younger people don't often have in mind.
>
> I can't find a site to buy one of these puppies "cold", ready to go.
> Maybe on eBay, for $60 or $100, sporadically. I don't see them on any
> for-sale Web site. What I won't do, is send Gerbers to China for
> boards to build myself (eyes, hands, remember?). I can't play Linux
> like a piano to run it. And most 'weazel Web pages, are specific to
> some brand of 8-bit vintage computer. And by the way those sites are
> already a year or two old. Also: a lot of them are Euro or UK - which
> is not a problem except I wont' pay $40 postage for that $10 board.
>
> So while I have reasons as I've described, I'm absolutely SURE they
> will read as "too old to play" by someone who is in the thick of
> exactly this kind of fun. But I'm in vintage computing for other
> purposes than playing in real time with 32-bit $10 microcontrollers.
> Maybe, I'm just looking through the other end of the telescope.
>
> Thoughts for your considerations,
> Herb Johnson
>
> On 5/3/2021 1:02 PM, Vale, Martyn wrote:
>> Hi Bill,
>>
>> Greaseweazle doesn’t emulate a floppy drive it just allows you
>> tocreate and restore disk images.

Bill Beech (NJ7P)

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May 3, 2021, 5:41:51 PM5/3/21
to intel-...@googlegroups.com
Oops!  I meant "shot".  I have ordered all the parts I need to build one.

Bill

Herb Johnson

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May 3, 2021, 9:36:02 PM5/3/21
to intel-...@googlegroups.com, Bill Beech (NJ7P)
I like what you said the first time! ;)

On 5/3/2021 5:40 PM, Bill Beech (NJ7P) wrote:
> Oops!  I meant "shot".  I have ordered all the parts I need to build one.
>
> Bill
>
> On 5/3/2021 2:24 PM, Bill Beech (NJ7P) wrote:
>> Martyn, Herb,
>>
>> This appears to be a modern Catweasle replacement.  I suffer the same
>> afflictions as Herb, but I am intrigued by this board.  What bothers
>> me is finding a real "Blue Pill" amoungst all the CHICOM clones.   I
>> am giving it a shit!
>>
>> Bill
>>
>> On 5/3/2021 12:36 PM, Herb Johnson wrote:
>>> Martyn, I find myself, these Greaseweazels are just "UN-attractive"
>>> to me, nothing personal to you. They are to me, modern technology
>>> that my old-person vintage computing skills, and shaky hands and weak
>>> eyes, are of no help to deploy. No old person likes to say such
>>> things, but it's a consideration that modern younger people don't
>>> often have in mind.

Herb Johnson

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May 3, 2021, 10:00:49 PM5/3/21
to intel-...@googlegroups.com
Thank you.

Best regards, Herb Johnson (copied to everyone)

On 5/3/2021 4:48 PM, Jon Hales wrote:
> Herb (copied to others)
>
> Some background to explain the Greaseweazle. It's not just to enable
> people to read floppies (including 8 inch M2FM). If you have one of
> these devices, you can write a disk on the basis of a file you received
> from someone.
>
> If reading and writing disks is of no interest, then I suggest you don't
> read further.
>
> The outstanding feature of the Greaseweazle system is simplicity. To
> read the flux transitions on a disk, the switch is -r. To write, the
> switch is -w (plus the filename, etc). As Martyn has explained, the
> process is quick.
>
> [However, I don't need to tell you that reading old disks is not always
> easy].
>
> For information, the best place to start is
> github.com/keirf/Greaseweazle <http://github.com/keirf/Greaseweazle> -
> look on that page for 'Read the GitHub Wiki' towards the bottom left.
>
> The Greaseweazle is available in various versions, as bare parts or
> assembled. Several people have taken the initial design and improved on
> it (or perhaps, just elaborated it). These are described with photos on
> the Github page headed 'Greaseweazle Models' which also identifies the
> different STM32 versions in use.
>
> In UK, a seller called 'SellMyRetro' (Aerobicant) sells the F7 Plus
> version for the equivalent of about $50 (out of stock today).
>
> There is at least one US seller on eBay.com as at today: eBay item
> number: 233986775347
>
> There's also a US seller on Tindie.com who sells the 'ready to use' F7
> Plus for $100.
>
> There is at least one YouTube video that explains the Greaseweazle and I
> think compares it with other devices that read flux transitions.
>
> Regards
>
> Jon
>
> On Mon, 3 May 2021 at 20:37, Herb Johnson <hjoh...@retrotechnology.com
> <mailto:hjoh...@retrotechnology.com>> wrote:
>
> Martyn, I find myself, these Greaseweazels are just "UN-attractive" to
> me, nothing personal to you. They are to me, modern technology that my
> old-person vintage computing skills, and shaky hands and weak eyes, are
> of no help to deploy. No old person likes to say such things, but
> it's a
> consideration that modern younger people don't often have in mind.

Jack Mcmullen

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May 4, 2021, 12:36:45 AM5/4/21
to intel-...@googlegroups.com, Herb Johnson, Bill Beech (NJ7P)
Ditto to that!!!


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Vale, Martyn

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May 4, 2021, 6:04:33 AM5/4/21
to intel-...@googlegroups.com

Hi All,

 

Direct from the guy who designed them:

 

 

Around $50 tracked postage from the UK.

 

Martyn.

 

 

-----Original Message-----
From: intel-...@googlegroups.com [mailto:intel-...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Bill Beech (NJ7P)

Sent: 03 May 2021 22:41
To: intel-...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: {SPAM?} Re: intel-devsys ISIS II file transfer utilities

 

Oops!  I meant "shot".  I have ordered all the parts I need to build one.

 

Bill

 

On 5/3/2021 2:24 PM, Bill Beech (NJ7P) wrote:

> Martyn, Herb,

> 

> This appears to be a modern Catweasle replacement.  I suffer the same

> afflictions as Herb, but I am intrigued by this board.  What bothers

> me is finding a real "Blue Pill" amoungst all the CHICOM clones.   I

> am giving it a shit!

> 

> Bill

> 

> On 5/3/2021 12:36 PM, Herb Johnson wrote:

>> Martyn, I find myself, these Greaseweazels are just "UN-attractive"

>> to me, nothing personal to you. They are to me, modern technology

>> that my old-person vintage computing skills, and shaky hands and weak

>> eyes, are of no help to deploy. No old person likes to say such

>> things, but it's a consideration that modern younger people don't

>> often have in mind.

>> 

>> I can't find a site to buy one of these puppies "cold", ready to go.

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