Loading flat images

[Nick Wedd]

I am completely new to Hugin (I used Panavue successfully for years, but stopped working, and even paying for a replacement copy didn't help). I have found several problems, but I'd like to take them one at a time.  So here is a real newbie question.

I load Hugin (the latest version, downloaded today).

I check that it's set to the "Simple" interface.

I click "Load images...", and select my images. They are two scans of overlapping parts of the same large printed page, made with a scanner.

I get the "Camera and Lens data" dialog. I set "Lens type" to "Normal (rectiliear)".  I set the "Focal length" to 3982 - I would like to set it to infinity, but if I set it any higher than 3982mm, my images never get shown. I click "OK".

I get the message "Setting the panorama to rectilinear projection would keep the straight lines straight".

So I have already gone wrong somewhere - I want to keep the straight lines straight. But I have failed to find a way to "set the panorama to rectilinear projection". I am able to set the Projection (not the panorama) to rectilinear, but only after I have loaded the images.

[Terry Duell]

Hello Nick,

On Wed, 22 Jan 2014 09:33:36 +1100, Nick Wedd <map...@gmail.com> wrote:

> I am completely new to Hugin (I used Panavue successfully for years, but
> stopped working, and even paying for a replacement copy didn't help). I
> have found several problems, but I'd like to take them one at a time. So
> here is a real newbie question.
>
> I load Hugin (the latest version, downloaded today).
> I check that it's set to the "Simple" interface.
> I click "Load images...", and select my images. They are two scans of
> overlapping parts of the same large printed page, made with a scanner.
> I get the "Camera and Lens data" dialog. I set "Lens type" to "Normal
> (rectiliear)". I set the "Focal length" to 3982 - I would like to set it
> to infinity, but if I set it any higher than 3982mm, my images never get
> shown. I click "OK".
> I get the message "Setting the panorama to rectilinear projection would
> keep the straight lines straight".
>

To stitch flat scanned images, it may be better to use the "advanced"
interface, as you then have more control over the optimisation parameters
best used for this type of project.
See the tutorial at
<http://hugin.sourceforge.net/tutorials/scans/en.shtml>, and follow that
as a guide.
If you have any trouble let's know and we'll see if we can provide further
help.

As an aside, your name is familiar...is your father Bruce Wedd?

Cheers,
--
Regards,
Terry Duell

[Nick Wedd]

Hello Terry,

Thank you for the advice. I tried the tutorial at 

http://hugin.sourceforge.net/tutorials/scans/en.shtml, using the Advanced 

interface, but I couldn't get far with it. I loaded the images, and set the 

control points. Then I am asked to "Switch to the Camera and Lens tab". 

But I can find no such tab. In the tutorial, the tabs are shown as 

    Assistant, Images, Camera and Lens, Crop, Mask, Control Points, Optimizer, Exposure, Stitcher

In the Advanced interface which I am now using, they are

    Photos, Masks, Control Points, Stitcher

In the Simple interface they are 

    Assistant, Preview, Layout, Projection, Move/Drag, Crop

I have searched for a Camera and Lens tab, and have so far failed to find one.

My father was George Wedd. I have a family tree drawn up by a very distant cousin Imogen Wedd, who researched the name's history in the counties surrounding the Wash. She was unaware of a Bruce Wedd. What country does he live in?

Cheers,

Nick Wedd

[Carlos Eduardo G. Carvalho (Cartola)]

Maybe you better use a previous hugin version to follow the tutorial and get familiar with the interface. Try the 2012.0.0:

http://sourceforge.net/projects/hugin/files/hugin/hugin-2012.0/

Some of those tabs no longer exist in the 2013.0.0 but the functions are there. To set lens parameters you can say at the Photos tab and just choose what is going to be shown at the right side, for example. I am still not too much familiar with the 2013 style, so can't help with details now as I won't be able to easily install and open it.

Bests,

Carlos E G Carvalho (Cartola)
http://cartola.org/360
http://www.panoforum.com.br/

2014/1/22 Nick Wedd <map...@gmail.com>

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[Frederic Da Vitoria]

2014/1/22 Nick Wedd <map...@gmail.com>

In the "Photos" tab, right click on each image and choose Lens / New lens.

For the next step, the Optimizer tab is still here (although it is now spelled Optimiser), but again the new way to check / uncheck things is by using right-click.

HTH

--
Frederic Da Vitoria
(davitof)

Membre de l'April - « promouvoir et défendre le logiciel libre » - http://www.april.org

[Carl von Einem]

Hi!

Frederic Da Vitoria schrieb am 22.01.14 17:04:
> 2014/1/22 Nick Wedd <map...@gmail.com <mailto:map...@gmail.com>>
>
> (...)

> For the next step, the Optimizer tab is still here (although it is now
> spelled Optimiser)

Tested on 2014.0.0-beta1 built by Matthieu DESILE (Mac OS X version, but
that should make no difference):

Optimization is done from within the Photos tab (Advanced or Expert
mode), and when starting from within an "English" system (that's AE and
I think that's Hugin's default) I see "Optimize".

Ok, I'll just switch my OS X to "British English" and open Hugin again.
Now it's "Optimise", so I suppose your system language needs to be
adjustet if you prefer AE over BE.

Cheers,
Carl

[Frederic Da Vitoria]

2014/1/22 Carl von Einem <ca...@einem.net>

On my French Windows the only language choice I have is "English" (I switched my interface to English long ago to make discussing here easier). But maybe if I had an American Windows, I would see "Optimize". This does not really to me matter anyhow, I am not fluent enough in English to care :-P

[Nick Wedd]

On Wednesday, 22 January 2014 15:18:32 UTC, Cartola wrote:

Maybe you better use a previous hugin version to follow the tutorial and get familiar with the interface. Try the 2012.0.0:

http://sourceforge.net/projects/hugin/files/hugin/hugin-2012.0/

Some of those tabs no longer exist in the 2013.0.0 but the functions are there. To set lens parameters you can say at the Photos tab and just choose what is going to be shown at the right side, for example. I am still not too much familiar with the 2013 style, so can't help with details now as I won't be able to easily install and open it.

Bests,

Thank you for the advice.  I have now uninstalled the 2013 version and installed the 2012 version, 

putting all its settings to default as it recommends.  This makes the tutorial MUCH easier to 

understand.  (Btw I am not bothered about whether to spell "optimise" with an s or a z; but 

being asked to select a tab which is not there at all I do find difficult).

But one problem remains. With the 2013 version, I could splice two 67Mb gif files to get a 

somewhat warped (because of the lens settings) high-resolution 146Mb tif. But with the 2012 

version, while I now know how to set the lenses to avoid warping, the output tif file is only 

12Mb, with a big loss of resolution.  Does this mean that I have now got some setting wrong? 

or was the 2012 version not so good at handling large files?

Best wishes,

Nick

[Terry Duell]

Hello Nick,

On Thu, 23 Jan 2014 01:51:43 +1100, Nick Wedd <map...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Thank you for the advice. I tried the tutorial at
> http://hugin.sourceforge.net/tutorials/scans/en.shtml, using the Advanced
> interface, but I couldn't get far with it. I loaded the images, and set
> the control points. Then I am asked to "Switch to the Camera and Lens
> tab".
> But I can find no such tab. In the tutorial, the tabs are shown as
> Assistant, Images, Camera and Lens, Crop, Mask, Control Points,
> Optimizer, Exposure, Stitcher
> In the Advanced interface which I am now using, they are
> Photos, Masks, Control Points, Stitcher
> In the Simple interface they are
> Assistant, Preview, Layout, Projection, Move/Drag, Crop
> I have searched for a Camera and Lens tab, and have so far failed to find
> one.
>

OK. to get yourself up to speed with the new interface, have a look at the
"The New user interface (2013)" tutorial,
<http://hugin.sourceforge.net/tutorials/new-gui/en.shtml>, it will help
with some of the transition from the old interface (which the scans
tutorial uses). We should probably update the tutorials to reflect the new
interface, but it all takes time.

The quick advice is that the settings that were under the Camera and Lens
tab and now available in the Photos tab.
To set a new lens for an image, go to the Photos tab, right click on the
image you want, in the menu select "Lens > New lens".
To optimise r,X,Y,Z you need to be able to set custom parameters, and that
is available in the "Expert" interface.
After setting your control points and lenses, in the Photos tab, in the
optimise section select "Custom parameters", and a "Optimizer" tab will
become available. In the image orientation section de-select any optimiser
settings other than r,X,Y,Z for images other the anchor, and ensure
r,X,Y,Z are selected.
You can then optimise, and check the result in the fast preview window. To
improve the result check and edit control points and re-optimise as
required.

Hope that helps.

> My father was George Wedd. I have a family tree drawn up by a very
> distant cousin Imogen Wedd, who researched the name's history in the
> counties
> surrounding the Wash. She was unaware of a Bruce Wedd. What country does
> he live in?

OK, not the Nick Wedd I know.
Bruce Wedd lives in Australia (South Australia) and is son of Arch
(probably Archibald).

[Terry Duell]

Hello Nick,

On Thu, 23 Jan 2014 06:36:56 +1100, Nick Wedd <map...@gmail.com> wrote:


> But one problem remains. With the 2013 version, I could splice two 67Mb
> gif files to get a
> somewhat warped (because of the lens settings) high-resolution 146Mb tif.
> But with the 2012 version, while I now know how to set the lenses to
> avoid warping, the
> output tif file is only
> 12Mb, with a big loss of resolution. Does this mean that I have now got
> some setting wrong? or was the 2012 version not so good at handling
> large files?
>

It is a while since I used the 2012 version, so I may be off track on this.
There may be a couple of things that could contribute to the problem.
Firstly, go to "File > Preferences" and see if you can find anything that
looks like "Downscale final pano to x %". That is a preference in the
current version, and I think was available in the 2012 version.
The other thing to try is, in the Stitcher tab, check "Calculate Optimal
size" before you stitch, that may make quite a bit of difference to the
size and quality of the result.

[Nick Wedd]

Thank you again for the advice.  

I eventually found a route through the menus and tabs that did exactly what I wanted, and did it very well, for two splicings of pairs of images. But when I did a third, it sliced 15% off the top of the image as it spliced it; and it now always does this. I have tried the crop tab without effect, it seems to be doing the cropping correctly. I have even tried uninstalling Hugin, rebooting Windows, re-installing Hugin, and going to File-Preferences and resetting all the tabs to use the default settings.  But it still retains the opinion that it ought now to slice the top 15% off the top of every pair of images that it splices.

I must have accidentally changed some setting, which is now stored permanently on my computer. I would be very grateful if someone could tell me where this setting is, and how to get rid of it.

Best wishes to all the helpful people here,

Nick

[Carl von Einem]

You use some unfamiliar terms. What is splicing meant to be regarding to
Hugin? Can you illustrate that problem with some screenshots?

The reset buttons in the Preferences dialog should work. Click those,
leave the dialog using the OK button, quit Hugin and re-open it. Now set
up a new project to make sure the fresh settings from Hugin will be
actually used (not those of an older project).

Did you use the buttons in the main window's "Stitcher" tab to
automatically calculate FoV, canvas size and crop? (screenshot would be
great...)

Also, can we see a .pto file if the problem still occurs?

Carl

Nick Wedd schrieb am 24.01.14 12:52:

[Nick Wedd]

On Friday, 24 January 2014 12:41:21 UTC, zarl wrote:

You use some unfamiliar terms. What is splicing meant to be regarding to
Hugin? Can you illustrate that problem with some screenshots?

I'm sorry, by "splicing" I meant "stitching".

The reset buttons in the Preferences dialog should work. Click those,
leave the dialog using the OK button, quit Hugin and re-open it. Now set
up a new project to make sure the fresh settings from Hugin will be
actually used (not those of an older project).

Did you use the buttons in the main window's "Stitcher" tab to
automatically calculate FoV, canvas size and crop? (screenshot would be
great...)

I did this time. I didn't last time. It made a difference: this time it 

has taken 15% off the bottom of the stitched image, instead of off

the top.  Maybe a coincidence.

 

Also, can we see a .pto file if the problem still occurs?

I have uploaded some files:

http://maproom.org/huginhelp/0009f.pto

http://maproom.org/huginhelp/0009f.pto.mk

http://maproom.org/huginhelp/0009f.tif             this is 72Mb

http://maproom.org/huginhelp/screenshot.tif

Thank you for your help,

Nick

[Terry Duell]

Hello Nick,

On Sat, 25 Jan 2014 04:00:38 +1100, Nick Wedd <map...@gmail.com> wrote:


>
> I did this time. I didn't last time. It made a difference: this time it
> has taken 15% off the bottom of the stitched image, instead of off
> the top. Maybe a coincidence.
>
>> Also, can we see a .pto file if the problem still occurs?
>>
>
> I have uploaded some files:
> http://maproom.org/huginhelp/0009f.pto
> http://maproom.org/huginhelp/0009f.pto.mk
> http://maproom.org/huginhelp/0009f.tif this is 72Mb
> http://maproom.org/huginhelp/screenshot.tif
>

I couldn't find your screenshot, and didn't want to download 72 MB, so
loaded your .pto with some dummy images.
This shows that your stitch is being cropped, probably not where you want
it...see attached image.
You can fix this in the Fast Preview window, by dragging the FOV sliders
(right and bottom edges of the window so you can see the alignment and the
crop boundaries.
You can fix your crop boundaries by selecting "crop' and then using your
mouse to select and drag the crop boundaries to where you would like them.
You can also select "autocrop" and see where hugin puts the crop
boundaries, then adjust as required.
This should fix your problem, but if not let's know.

[Terry Duell]

Hello Nick,

On Sat, 25 Jan 2014 09:28:25 +1100, Terry Duell <tdu...@iinet.net.au>
wrote:

> You can fix your crop boundaries by selecting "crop' and then using your
> mouse to select and drag the crop boundaries to where you would like
> them.

I should have added, that it is probably best to stay away from the
"calculate field of view" button in the Stitcher tab, unless you have
experience with the effects. If you use that button after manually
arranging the view in the fast preview window, the resulting stitch may
not be as expected.

[Nick Wedd]

Hello Terry,

With your help, I have found a reliable way of getting good results.

In one of the Hugin windows, there is a sphere shown to the left, 

and a tiny copy of my images shown inside a black square to the 

right. I don't know if this is the "preview window". I have attached 

an image of it to this message. 

The copy of my scan is tiny because I have set it to 1°. I would 

prefer to set it even smaller, as the focal length of a flat scanner is 

effectively infinite, but anything less than 1° leads to weird effects. 

The panel to the right has two sliders, which can, with some 

difficulty, be used to arrange that the tiny speck of my images 

grows as large as possible without extending from the black area 

into the surrounding grey area. If I get this right, _and_ use one 

of the Autocrop buttons, then I get good results.

So, thank you for your help!  I am now using Hugin to do what I 

had planned.

Cheers,

Nick

[Carl von Einem]

Hi Nick,

your screenshots show Hugin's new standard window. i.e. you are running
Hugin using the Simple mode (menu Interface -> Simple).

The sphere you see is the Overview (menu View -> Overview) combined with
the Grid view (from the same menu).

Menu View -> Panorama Editor opens an additional window with some more
options.

When you need more options switch Hugin from Simple to Advanced mode and
both of these windows will change:
"Panorama Stitcher" (the main window) will become the "Fast Panorama
preview" window while the "Panorama Editor" changes to "Panorama
Stitcher" (and yes, that is sort of weird).

Cheers,
Carl

Nick Wedd schrieb am 30.01.14 12:27:

>
>
> In one of the Hugin windows, there is a sphere shown to the left,
> and a tiny copy of my images shown inside a black square to the
> right. I don't know if this is the "preview window". I have attached
> an image of it to this message.
>
> The copy of my scan is tiny because I have set it to 1°. I would
> prefer to set it even smaller, as the focal length of a flat scanner is
> effectively infinite, but anything less than 1° leads to weird effects.
>
> The panel to the right has two sliders, which can, with some
> difficulty, be used to arrange that the tiny speck of my images
> grows as large as possible without extending from the black area
> into the surrounding grey area. If I get this right, _and_ use one
> of the Autocrop buttons, then I get good results.
>
> So, thank you for your help! I am now using Hugin to do what I
> had planned.
>

> On Saturday, 25 January 2014 22:31:23 UTC, Tduell wrote:
>

[Terry Duell]

Hello Nick,

On Thu, 30 Jan 2014 22:27:38 +1100, Nick Wedd <map...@gmail.com> wrote:

>
>
>
> Hello Terry,
>
> With your help, I have found a reliable way of getting good results.
>
> In one of the Hugin windows, there is a sphere shown to the left,
> and a tiny copy of my images shown inside a black square to the
> right. I don't know if this is the "preview window". I have attached
> an image of it to this message.
>

You are able to get rid of the "overview" pane if you want a larger area
for the preview.
To do this go to "view > overview". if it isn't ticked, then select
"overview", then repeat the process, this time unticking "overview", and
the overview sphere will disappears.
I don't think this is the expected behaviour, but is a work-around to
switch it off.

> The copy of my scan is tiny because I have set it to 1°. I would
> prefer to set it even smaller, as the focal length of a flat scanner is
> effectively infinite, but anything less than 1° leads to weird effects.
>

As I understand it the maths gets a bit uncontrolled at very low field of
view.
I think you can use a much larger fov (say 10 deg) and still get a
'proper' result. A larger fov may make it easier to manipulate. This might
be worth trying.