Falcone clutch

[Paul Marx]

I have the distinct impression that the clutch on my Falcone isn't lifting properly. It sticks when cold which is to be considered normal. It is washed out with heater fuel regularly. When warm, gear changes are a bit haphazard and graunchy..

It could be warped plates but apart from that, what is the influence of the various adjustments?

The handbook mentions that the clutch rod, through the mainshaft should protrude clutch side by one thread which I respected when I had my hands in there.

The spring on the right hand side should be compressed to 27mm which I no doubt did.

What sort of leeway is there with these settings that could increase the lift just a bit?

Paul

[Alan Comfort]

It sounds very much like the clutch is not fully disengaged when the handlebar lever is pulled. If you have aftermarket handlebar levers, the pull may not be sufficient or there could be too much slop at the cable ends and/or the lever pivot.. Next thing to check is the throwout lever on the side of the engine. A worn pivot can introduce a multiple of the measurable pivot wear to the end of the lever. If all the external wear points have been eliminated, then a full strip down of the clutch will me needed. Warped plates and worn friction discs will make for slippage and/or lack of full disengagement. Tearing down the clutch is not too difficult and I might suggest that you obtain new clutch discs before you start. These parts are not too expensive and it makes good sense to replace them while the clutch is apart. Nothing worse than having a partially dismantled bike sitting around for weeks while you are waiting for parts to arrive. Actually, there are much worse things in the world of motorcycles, but this is one that can be easily avoided.

Alan in Robers creek

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[Patrick Hughes]

I bought a new clutch set from Retro when I was in Mandello 2022. I  installed them when I got back, what a difference !  Much easier gear changes.

Regards

Patrick Hughes   UK

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From: guzzi-...@googlegroups.com <guzzi-...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Alan Comfort <alan.c...@gmail.com>
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Subject: Re: [guzzi-singles] Falcone clutch

 

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[pouma1954]

Thanks. Good to know.

Paul

Envoyé depuis mon appareil Galaxy

-------- Message d'origine --------

De : Patrick Hughes <patrick...@harmill.co.uk>

Date : 23/04/2025 18:30 (GMT+01:00)

À : guzzi-...@googlegroups.com

Objet : Re: [guzzi-singles] Falcone clutch

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[Paul Marx]

I'll check again all the easily accessible bits and then I think I'll ,order a set of clutch plates.

Paul

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[Rick Yamane]

Good idea. Warped plates can both slip and drag at the same time. Easily checked if you have a surface plate or piece of plate glass.
I've not serviced a Falcone clutch before but if they use screws to hold spring pressure on the pressure plate, if they aren't designed to seat tight they should be adjusted so the pressure plate lifts evenly when the lever is pulled. British clutches work that way.

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Subject: Re: [guzzi-singles] Falcone clutch

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[pouma1954]

No, it's a sort if diaphragm system with the rod that comes through the mainshaft threaded into the last plate which is the pressure plate.

I think that I'll be in there soon but after a 3 day rally mid May.

Paul

Envoyé depuis mon appareil Galaxy

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De : Rick Yamane <ri...@motionpro.com>

Date : 24/04/2025 17:04 (GMT+01:00)

À : guzzi-...@googlegroups.com

Objet : Re: [guzzi-singles] Falcone clutch

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[Patrick Hayes]

On 4/24/25 08:18, pouma1954 wrote:
> sort if diaphragm system with the rod that comes through the mainshaft
> threaded into the last plate which is the pressure plate.

Sorry to be late to the parade. Medically involved the last three days
with yesterday in hospital. No worries. Routine procedural stuff
generated by age.

Back to moto.

Difficult Falcone shifting can come from several areas. The most common
is dried/sticky oil film on the plates. Bath of solvent usually clears
that for a time but it returns. Probably not an issue if this is your
daily commuter but most Falcone sit for months and then get pulled out
for parade or show, etc. Can't expect them to behave normally that way.
One trick to counteract is to start by shifting into second gear,
feathering the clutch repeatedly to move and heat the sticky oil, then
shift back into first for your first rollaway of the day.

The 'pressure plate' is a rigid disc. No internal rotational cush
springs as you might find on a car pressure plate. The cush is designed
into the rear wheel hub and sprocket and also the helical primary gear
on the crankshaft.

It is possible to remove and reinstall the throwout rod without removing
the flywheel and left side cover. Installation is a critical dimension
so it requires some care. Also, there are pitfalls that can cause much
more work. If someone needs further advice on this let me know and I'll
write it up. Certainly a lot easier and more accurate if you do remove
flywheel and left cover. But if you're not working on plates, the 'rod
only' procedure is an option.

I read some question about various adjustments. One related to the 27mm
for the compressed clutch spring co-axial set. I would avoid going
shorter than that dimension. The spring coils are very close together
and when you pull on the hand lever they get even closer. At some point
of compression you risk "coil binding" and the spring locks motion to
act as a rigid cylinder. At this point, all of the leverage load is
transferred directly to the tiny button bearing on the outside and you
risk a quick overload and destruction of that bearing. I adjust the
clutch cable so that the action lever arm just barely contacts the
throwout button bearing. When the engine is running, the outer cap of
the throwout button bearing should rotate freely with the inner clutch
and transmission components. As soon as you put the slightest tension
on the hand lever, the outer cap of the throwout button bearing should
stop rotating. The inner bits are still rotating but the cap is not.
The rotation differential now being handled completely by the rolling of
the internal balls.

If you do plan to remove the plates, I mostly find that damage does not
occur to the friction surface but to the side edges of the exposed drive
tangs on the bronze plates. These tang edges get hammered against the
clutch hub and clutch basket gear with every shift action. Filing or
grinding to get those burrs taken off would be helpful. Also a good file
or tiny grinder to the edges of the clutch gear and the clutch hub to
remove any developing grooves. The plates move very slightly inward and
outward as you use the clutch and this can develop ridges in the various
contact points which might deteriorate shifting quality.

Lastly, the quality of the external throwout button bearing is
important. Those balls are of variable quality and some deteriorate
quite rapidly. A few month back we discussed a 'captive ball'
modification. I find that these run much much smoother and assist
shifting. Perhaps someone has been able to fabricate a few? I'm still
far to busy with other personal life items to get back into my shop.


--
Patrick Hayes
Fremont CA
Falcone-NT and SuperAlce
www.motohayes.com

[Andrew Nahum]

Agreed Rick. Everything dead flat, both friction plates and the interleaving metal plates is no. 1 rule on our oldies. But, for your own interest,  as far as I recall Guzzi slicer singles are quite different to Brit practice. Again, if I recall right, the clutch spring is a pair of concentric coil springs on the RH side of the engine/gearbox unit (where the clutch release lever is) and transfers its pressure across the gearbox to the clutch friction pack on the LH side. Quite marvellously original, and the clutch release rod runs across the bike inside the middle of it all.  But now I've written that I can't really visualise how the spring pressure is transmitted across the bike. Does the gearbox secondary shaft float?

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[Patrick Hayes]

On 4/24/25 10:31, Andrew Nahum wrote:
> I can't really visualise how the spring pressure is transmitted across
> the bike. Does the gearbox secondary shaft float?

No, the secondary shaft is solid and not involved in the clutching process.

The primary shaft is fixed into the clutch hub center on the left side
of the motor. The primary shaft is hollow throughout to allow the
throwout rod to pass through.

The trick piece in all of this is the "manicotto". Rather complex in
its design.
First, the exterior surface is 'left-hand' threaded or reverse threaded
or sinistrorso if you speak Italian.
Second, the hollow interior has a keyway groove (which mates onto the
little tit on one side of the exposed tip of the primary shaft.
Third, the outer end of the manicotto has two substantial flat cutaways
taken from the perimeter. These flats accept the outer end of the
throwout rod which is not circular but has flat ground onto each side.

Hard to explain, but logical when you have all disassembled.

The throwout rod and manicotto are set in place (throwout rod with a
specific dimension on the pressure plate side). Now the two, concentric
clutch coil springs are set in place. Now the knurled, exposed clutch
pressure disc is installed and screwed down onto the coil springs.
Remember, the interior thread of the knurled disc has to be left-hand
threaded to match the threading of the manicotto.

Installing the knurled pressure disc can be tricky. The manicotto is
free to move and hard to catch the first thread. Helps to stick a blade
or thin screwdriver between the spring coils to reach behind the
manicotto and hold it outwards while you catch the first thread with the
knurled disc. Only requires three hands. :-)

The knurled disc is turned counterclockwise to compress the concentric
coil springs. You will need to lock the rear wheel and put the
transmission in gear to allow full tensioning. Keep tensioning until
you reach 27mm for the resting compressed length of the spring.

So, a short answer to your original question would be that the
concentric coil springs are constantly pushing outward against the inner
face of the knurled disc or toward the right. That disk pulls outward
on the manicotto. The manicotto pulls outward on the end of the
throwout rod. The throwout rod is pulling the pressure plate and thus
the entire clutch pack to the right. That means the pressure plate is
squeezing or trying to compress all the discs of the clutch pack.

When you pull on the hand lever, you are pushing inward on the throwout
rod. Via the manicotto, that hand force further compresses the
concentric coil springs. Inside, the pressure plate is moved away from
the clutch pack and it discs all begin to slip against each other.

Simple. Easy to access. Easy to maintain.

[Paul Marx]

Many thanks to all for your explanations.

I now understand the function of that spring on the right hand side, it is the clutch spring.

I shall rinse the clutch again before the rally in 3 weeks and we'll see how things go.

Paul

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