Reem Kufi, a Fatimid Kufic

[Khaled Hosny]

Hi all,

I started working on a Fatimid Kufic typeface based on the work of the
great calligrapher Mohammed Abdul Qadir (who formalized the rules of
this style of Arabic calligraphy and lettering).

So far Arabic letters are more or less done, so will be working next on
the number and punctuations.

https://github.com/khaledhosny/reem-kufi
https://twitter.com/KhaledGhetas/status/665561262001098752

Regards,
Khaled

[Dave Crossland]

Hi

Khaled, thanks for this! 

I'm curious what folks here think would be a good Latin design to go with this? Perhaps something like https://www.google.com/fonts/specimen/Pirata+One but more flat/angular/sharp?

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Cheers
Dave

[Catherine Leigh Schmidt]

Pairing w/ a textura would be pretty wild. Some very round moments as well in this font.

On Wednesday, November 18, 2015 at 1:48:31 PM UTC-5, Dave Crossland wrote:

Hi

Khaled, thanks for this! 

I'm curious what folks here think would be a good Latin design to go with this? Perhaps something like https://www.google.com/fonts/specimen/Pirata+One but more flat/angular/sharp?

On 17 November 2015 at 06:07, Khaled Hosny <khale...@eglug.org> wrote:

Hi all,

I started working on a Fatimid Kufic typeface based on the work of the
great calligrapher Mohammed Abdul Qadir (who formalized the rules of
this style of Arabic calligraphy and lettering).

So far Arabic letters are more or less done, so will be working next on
the number and punctuations.

https://github.com/khaledhosny/reem-kufi
https://twitter.com/KhaledGhetas/status/665561262001098752

Regards,
Khaled

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Cheers
Dave

[Khaled Hosny]

I’m not sure if wild here is a negative or positive attribute :)

My idea is to find a Latin that is not very out of place next to the
Arabic, and usually I’m not too concerned about sharing particular
design features between the two scripts. I’d rather not have Latin
altogether and let people pair the fonts as they please, as I don’t
think any particular pairing will work for all situations given the
nature of the two scripts, but Google Fonts insists on having a Latin
(for technical reasons AFAIK).

Here is my quick attempt to modify Pirata to fit better with Reem. I
still want to do other changes, but that is the general direction I’m
heading to.

Regards,
Khaled

On Wed, Nov 18, 2015 at 02:57:41PM -0800, Catherine Leigh Schmidt wrote:
> Pairing w/ a textura would be pretty wild. Some very round moments as well
> in this font.
>
> On Wednesday, November 18, 2015 at 1:48:31 PM UTC-5, Dave Crossland wrote:
> >
> > Hi
> >
> > Khaled, thanks for this!
> >
> > I'm curious what folks here think would be a good Latin design to go with
> > this? Perhaps something like
> > https://www.google.com/fonts/specimen/Pirata+One but more
> > flat/angular/sharp?
> >
> > On 17 November 2015 at 06:07, Khaled Hosny <khale...@eglug.org

> > <javascript:>> wrote:
> >
> >> Hi all,
> >>
> >> I started working on a Fatimid Kufic typeface based on the work of the
> >> great calligrapher Mohammed Abdul Qadir (who formalized the rules of
> >> this style of Arabic calligraphy and lettering).
> >>
> >> So far Arabic letters are more or less done, so will be working next on
> >> the number and punctuations.
> >>
> >> https://github.com/khaledhosny/reem-kufi
> >> https://twitter.com/KhaledGhetas/status/665561262001098752
> >>
> >> Regards,
> >> Khaled
> >>
> >> --
> >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> >> "Google Fonts Discussions" group.
> >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an

> >> email to googlefonts-dis...@googlegroups.com <javascript:>.

> >> To post to this group, send email to googlefon...@googlegroups.com

> >> <javascript:>.

> >> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/googlefonts-discuss.
> >> To view this discussion on the web visit
> >> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/googlefonts-discuss/20151116230719.GA6741%40khaled-laptop
> >> .
> >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Cheers
> > Dave
> >
>

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[Zeynep Akay]

I’ve always thought blackletter would go well with Kufi. How about something like Bastard for instance? It has very geometric shapes, and curves that begin at rectangular terminals. It would probably need to have some organic tapering added to the stroke structure.

[Khaled Hosny]

Interesting, Bastard have some interesting feature that is closer to
what I have in mind. Happy that I’m not alone in thinking about
blackletter :)

Regards,
Khaled

On Thu, Nov 19, 2015 at 03:31:18PM +0000, Zeynep Akay wrote:
> I’ve always thought blackletter would go well with Kufi. How about
> something like Bastard for instance? It has very geometric shapes, and
> curves that begin at rectangular terminals. It would probably need to
> have some organic tapering added to the stroke structure.
>
>
>
> > On 18 Nov 2015, at 18:47, Dave Crossland <da...@lab6.com> wrote:
> >
> > Hi
> >
> > Khaled, thanks for this!
> >

> > I'm curious what folks here think would be a good Latin design to go with this? Perhaps something like https://www.google.com/fonts/specimen/Pirata+One <https://www.google.com/fonts/specimen/Pirata+One> but more flat/angular/sharp?

> >
> > On 17 November 2015 at 06:07, Khaled Hosny <khale...@eglug.org <mailto:khale...@eglug.org>> wrote:
> > Hi all,
> >
> > I started working on a Fatimid Kufic typeface based on the work of the
> > great calligrapher Mohammed Abdul Qadir (who formalized the rules of
> > this style of Arabic calligraphy and lettering).
> >
> > So far Arabic letters are more or less done, so will be working next on
> > the number and punctuations.
> >

> > https://github.com/khaledhosny/reem-kufi <https://github.com/khaledhosny/reem-kufi>
> > https://twitter.com/KhaledGhetas/status/665561262001098752 <https://twitter.com/KhaledGhetas/status/665561262001098752>

> >
> > Regards,
> > Khaled
> >
> > --
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Google Fonts Discussions" group.

> > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to googlefonts-dis...@googlegroups.com <mailto:googlefonts-discuss%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com>.
> > To post to this group, send email to googlefon...@googlegroups.com <mailto:googlefon...@googlegroups.com>.
> > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/googlefonts-discuss <http://groups.google.com/group/googlefonts-discuss>.
> > To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/googlefonts-discuss/20151116230719.GA6741%40khaled-laptop <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/googlefonts-discuss/20151116230719.GA6741%40khaled-laptop>.
> > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout <https://groups.google.com/d/optout>.
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Cheers
> > Dave

>
> --
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[Borna Izadpanah]

>> I'm curious what folks here think would be a good Latin design to go with this?

I don’t see how Textura/Blackletter/Bastard can work with kufi. These are all fairly condensed styles while kufi is relatively wide and generously spaced (especially the early examples). There may be some potential in Romanesque. I think Gerard Unger’s Alverata could serve as an example. 

 

>> I’d rather not have Latin altogether and let people pair the fonts as they please, as I don’t think any particular pairing will work for all situations given the nature of the two scripts, but Google Fonts insists on having a Latin.

It’s a challenge then. I don’t think if it’s impossible. You may not find an existing Latin typeface but you can certainly design one.

 

 

 

 

[Khaled Hosny]

On Thu, Nov 19, 2015 at 11:04:15AM -0800, Borna Izadpanah wrote:
>
>
> >> I'm curious what folks here think would be a good Latin design to go
> with this?
>

> I don’t see how Textura/Blackletter/Bastard can work with *kufi*. These are
> all fairly condensed styles while *kufi* is relatively wide and generously

> spaced (especially the early examples). There may be some potential in
> Romanesque. I think Gerard Unger’s Alverata

> <http://www.gerardunger.com/allmytypedesigns/allmytypedesigns24.html> could
> serve as an example.

I what is most important when pairing two totally different scripts is
matching the feel of the design, not any particular feature, and I think
Blackletter for Latin as close as it can get to the feeling Kufic gives
for Arabic.

Also while Blackletter is condensed horizontally, this style
of Kufic is condensed vertically, and I’d argue that this is a nice
match given the difference in the significance of both directions in the
two scripts (but I just made this up now :).

But as I said, I don’t think users of the font should accept my choice,
they should choose what is best for them, but if I’m using such a Kufic
face and I needed a Latin, Blackletter would be my first choice.

In general I think many of the choices we made as type designers are
just placeholders or defaults, the users of the type are better equipped
to choose the ideal setting for whatever they are doing.

Regards,
Khaled

[Mohamed Gaber]

On Thu, Nov 19, 2015 at 10:28 PM, Khaled Hosny <khale...@eglug.org> wrote:

On Thu, Nov 19, 2015 at 11:04:15AM -0800, Borna Izadpanah wrote:
>
>
> >> I'm curious what folks here think would be a good Latin design to go
> with this?
>
> I don’t see how Textura/Blackletter/Bastard can work with *kufi*. These are
> all fairly condensed styles while *kufi* is relatively wide and generously
> spaced (especially the early examples). There may be some potential in
> Romanesque. I think Gerard Unger’s Alverata
> <http://www.gerardunger.com/allmytypedesigns/allmytypedesigns24.html> could
> serve as an example.

I what is most important when pairing two totally different scripts is
matching the feel of the design, not any particular feature, and I think
Blackletter for Latin as close as it can get to the feeling Kufic gives
for Arabic.

as much as i agree with you here Khaled about matching the feeling not the feature as much as i disagree on the case with suggesting blackletter for the kufi 

when i work on matchmaking I'm not only concerned about matching the features but also the negative space between the letters in both latin and arabic is very important to reflect the feeling that both types are matching 

which is not the case here with This specific Kufi and the blackletter 

I think it might be a chance to work on a dedicated matching latin type for this kufi if you have the time and energy to take this adventure 

maybe build upon a blackletter font and develop the spacing to reach what would work  

 

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Mohamed Gaber | محمد جابر
http://portfolio.gaberism.net/
MN: +20 100 332 4822 | Blog: www.gaberism.net
Skype: che.guebara | Twitter: @Gue3bara

[Dave Crossland]

On Nov 20, 2015 3:28 AM, "Khaled Hosny" <khale...@eglug.org> wrote:
>
> On Thu, Nov 19, 2015 at 11:04:15AM -0800, Borna Izadpanah wrote:
> >
> >
> > >> I'm curious what folks here think would be a good Latin design to go
> > with this?
> >
> > I don’t see how Textura/Blackletter/Bastard can work with *kufi*. These are
> > all fairly condensed styles while *kufi* is relatively wide and generously
> > spaced (especially the early examples). There may be some potential in
> > Romanesque. I think Gerard Unger’s Alverata
> > <http://www.gerardunger.com/allmytypedesigns/allmytypedesigns24.html> could
> > serve as an example.
>
> I what is most important when pairing two totally different scripts is
> matching the feel of the design, not any particular feature, and I think
> Blackletter for Latin as close as it can get to the feeling Kufic gives
> for Arabic.

But a Romanesque like Alverata has the antique connotations...

[Khaled Hosny]

Hmm, OK, I’ll need someone to do the Latin :)

Regards,
Khaled

[Dave Crossland]

On 19 November 2015 at 22:31, Zeynep Akay <zynp...@gmail.com> wrote:

How about something like Bastard for instance? It has very geometric shapes, and curves that begin at rectangular terminals. It would probably need to have some organic tapering added to the stroke structure.

I think this is a fun design, but not a good 'feel-match' for Khaled's arabic. 

Overall I think an angular/sharp blackletter can be the most reasonable fit; I think the latin numbers and caps are most critical as they are most likely to get mixed in with the arabic.

Khaled, I suggest to post a 'sketch font' in the project's github with a link and screenshot of a basic testing document with it :) 

[Khaled Hosny]

I tried few things, but I didn’t like the result. The more I try it the
more I dislike using blackletter here. I decided to just use a geometric
sans serif and call it a day, right now I’m Josefin Sans and I like what
I have so far.

BTW, do you happen to know if there is a way to get the original source
files of Josefin Sans? https://github.com/librefonts/josefinsans doesn’t
provide any real sources and the quadratic outlines seems to have been
poorly converted from cubic ones, also it uses a very huge flat set of
kerning pairs (~ 50% the file size) that would have been kerning classes
quite easily with a fraction of the size.

Regards,
Khaled