Plan to get historical papers from Portugal put on hold: Minister

[Frederick Noronha]

Minister for archives and archaeology Subhash Phal Dessai told TOI that when the state decided to send a delegation to Portugal to bring back the documents, “some people tried to create controversy” saying that the delegations wanted to go on a trip to Portugal.

https://epaper.timesgroup.com/article-share?article=21_05_2023_003_004_toigo_TOI

--

FN * +91-9822122436 * 784 Saligao 403511 Bardez Goa

------------------- YouTube Channels ------------------- 
FN https://www.youtube.com/c/FrederickFNNoronha/videos 
or https://bit.ly/FNOnYouTube
FN1 https://bit.ly/FNVideos1 FN2 https://bit.ly/FNVideos2
------------------- ------------------- ----------------

[sandra lobo]

I do not know to which documents the minister is referring to. The issue in my opinion is that most probably they belong to the history of both countries. More important seems to me that they are freely accessed.

Sandra Ataíde Lobo  

https://giepcip.wordpress.com/

tmn. ++351 930690459

---

De: goa-rese...@googlegroups.com <goa-rese...@googlegroups.com> em nome de Frederick Noronha <frederic...@gmail.com>
Enviado: 24 de maio de 2023 14:21
Para: Goa-Research-Net <goa-rese...@googlegroups.com>
Assunto: [GRN] Plan to get historical papers from Portugal put on hold: Minister

 

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Goa-Research-Net" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to goa-research-n...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web, visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/goa-research-net/CAMCR53L%2B1mwj_nrOGMDQQbdi3W8NbtNBqaDACy3%2BRZ2qMFdYZQ%40mail.gmail.com.

[Carvalho]

Sometimes I marvel at the idiocy of the people who head affairs in Goa. What does it mean to 'get the documents'? Documents are pieces of paper. They are easily photocopied or scanned and uploaded within seconds. You don't have to send a 'delegation'. You can send any one of the peons in your Goa archives department to photocopy them. Yes, there might be documents which are still sealed by Portugal, documents which might be redacted by them and that's their business. You can't just demand that they be unsealed. Unlike a historical artefact, these weren't taken from you. These are conversations which occurred during the course of a historical event. No one owes you anything in life. Least of all their documents. Better concentrate on preserving all the documents which are in your own archives and are being feasted on by ants. 

All best,

Selma

To view this discussion on the web, visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/goa-research-net/AS8PR10MB6294727BC5705DE36C40D2DEA5419%40AS8PR10MB6294.EURPRD10.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM.

[Roland Francis]

Well thought and said.

Roland.

To view this discussion on the web, visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/goa-research-net/822976418.1187709.1684960870442%40mail.yahoo.com.

--

Roland Francis
416-453-3371

[Rafael Moreira]

BRAVO!! Absolutely right… (That's pure IGNORANCE - to say the less)
Yours, R.M.

On 5/24/23, 'Carvalho' via Goa-Research-Net

<goa-rese...@googlegroups.com> wrote:
> Sometimes I marvel at the idiocy of the people who head affairs in Goa.
> What does it mean to 'get the documents'? Documents are pieces of paper.
> They are easily photocopied or scanned and uploaded within seconds. You
> don't have to send a 'delegation'. You can send any one of the peons in your
> Goa archives department to photocopy them. Yes, there might be documents
> which are still sealed by Portugal, documents which might be redacted by
> them and that's their business. You can't just demand that they be unsealed.
> Unlike a historical artefact, these weren't taken from you. These are
> conversations which occurred during the course of a historical event. No one
> owes you anything in life. Least of all their documents. Better concentrate
> on preserving all the documents which are in your own archives and are being
> feasted on by ants.
>
> All best,Selma
> On Wednesday, 24 May 2023 at 14:52:14 BST, sandra lobo
> <sandr...@netcabo.pt> wrote:
>
> I do not know to which documents the minister is referring to. The issue
> in my opinion is that most probably they belong to the history of both
> countries. More important seems to me that they are freely accessed.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Sandra Ataíde Lobo
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

> https://giepcip.wordpress.com/
>
>
> tmn. ++351 930690459
>
>
>
>
>

> De: goa-rese...@googlegroups.com <goa-rese...@googlegroups.com> em
> nome de Frederick Noronha <frederic...@gmail.com>
> Enviado: 24 de maio de 2023 14:21
> Para: Goa-Research-Net <goa-rese...@googlegroups.com>
> Assunto: [GRN] Plan to get historical papers from Portugal put on hold:
> Minister Minister for archives and archaeology Subhash Phal Dessai told TOI
> that when the state decided to send a delegation to Portugal to bring back
> the documents, “some people tried to create controversy” saying that the
> delegations wanted to go on a trip to Portugal.
> https://epaper.timesgroup.com/article-share?article=21_05_2023_003_004_toigo_TOI--
>
> FN * +91-9822122436 * 784 Saligao 403511 Bardez Goa
> ------------------- YouTube Channels -------------------
> FN https://www.youtube.com/c/FrederickFNNoronha/videos
> or https://bit.ly/FNOnYouTubeFN1 https://bit.ly/FNVideos1 FN2

> https://bit.ly/FNVideos2------------------- ------------------- ----------------

>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "Goa-Research-Net" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an

> email togoa-research-...@googlegroups.com.

> To view this discussion on the web, visit
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/goa-research-net/CAMCR53L%2B1mwj_nrOGMDQQbdi3W8NbtNBqaDACy3%2BRZ2qMFdYZQ%40mail.gmail.com.
>
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "Goa-Research-Net" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email to goa-research-n...@googlegroups.com.
> To view this discussion on the web, visit
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/goa-research-net/AS8PR10MB6294727BC5705DE36C40D2DEA5419%40AS8PR10MB6294.EURPRD10.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM.
>
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "Goa-Research-Net" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email to goa-research-n...@googlegroups.com.
> To view this discussion on the web, visit

> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/goa-research-net/822976418.1187709.1684960870442%40mail.yahoo.com.
>

[John de Figueiredo]

Very well said, Selma.

John M. de Figueiredo 

Sent from my iPhone

On May 24, 2023, at 5:45 PM, Roland Francis <roland....@gmail.com> wrote:



Well thought and said.

Roland.

On Wed, May 24, 2023 at 4:41 PM 'Carvalho' via Goa-Research-Net <goa-rese...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

Sometimes I marvel at the idiocy of the people who head affairs in Goa. What does it mean to 'get the documents'? Documents are pieces of paper. They are easily photocopied or scanned and uploaded within seconds. You don't have to send a 'delegation'. You can send any one of the peons in your Goa archives department to photocopy them. Yes, there might be documents which are still sealed by Portugal, documents which might be redacted by them and that's their business. You can't just demand that they be unsealed. Unlike a historical artefact, these weren't taken from you. These are conversations which occurred during the course of a historical event. No one owes you anything in life. Least of all their documents. Better concentrate on preserving all the documents which are in your own archives and are being feasted on by ants. 

All best,

Selma

On Wednesday, 24 May 2023 at 14:52:14 BST, sandra lobo <sandr...@netcabo.pt> wrote:

I do not know to which documents the minister is referring to. The issue in my opinion is that most probably they belong to the history of both countries. More important seems to me that they are freely accessed.

Sandra Ataíde Lobo   

<Outlook-cibezlni.png>

<Outlook-ubhi5r4o.png>

<Outlook-v0n4me2h.png>

https://giepcip.wordpress.com/

tmn. ++351 930690459

To view this discussion on the web, visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/goa-research-net/CA%2Bx1-5Q1Z7qy-nmW9BNgAW1M7DX%2B3H30N8bBskzzYojfKn10%2Bg%40mail.gmail.com.

[Frederick Noronha]

 

Maybe we're taking our politicians a bit too seriously here... but it's interesting to keep track of how this thinking proceeds.

Getting documents from Lisbon ‘will reveal many secrets' -- Subhash Phal Dessai

 Read more at:
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/92136076.cms?utm_source=contentofinterest&utm_medium=text&utm_campaign=cppst

Murari Shetye / TNN / Updated: Jun 11, 2022, 10:34 IST 
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/92136076.cms

Goa News - Times of India

Minister for archives and archaeology Subhash Phal Dessai

said on Friday that bringing documents pertaining to Goa from
Portugal would “reveal many secrets”.  He
said that the state would form a team of experts and if
needed, travel to Portugal to bring the documents.

"There are a lot of documents that will reveal the truth,” he
said.  “We hope that the Portuguese government has nothing to
lose from their side.  It is our property, and it should come
to us.  If there’s anything that belongs to them and is with
us, we may give it to them, as an exchange,” he said.

Phal Dessai said that the state government wants to get back
original documents from Portugal related to Goa.  “We could
recover several letters related to Shivaji, written by the
Portuguese government from Goa to Lisbon, about every step of
Shivaji in Goa,” he said.

Phal Dessai said that the documents will also throw light on
owners of properties in Goa.

CM Pramod Sawant had said on Monday that he has instructed
the minister and directorate of archives and archeology to
seek the assistance of the Union ministry of external affairs
(MEA) and get back documents from Portugal pertaining to Goa.

Sawant had said that if required, the minister can travel to
Portugal to bring the documents to the custody of the state
government.  He had said that these documents can be used by
historians and history researchers “for better
understanding”.

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/goa/getting-docus-from-lisbon-will-reveal-many-secrets-phal-dessai/articleshow/92136076.cms

 

[Roland Francis]

No doubt India’s Ministry of External Affairs (MEA) shut down Sawant, Phaldesai and company’s proposal for a free jaunt as it would be an irritant in the two countries’ relations.  

Roland 

On May 24, 2023, at 6:14 PM, Frederick Noronha <frederic...@gmail.com> wrote:



--

You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Goa-Research-Net" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to goa-research-n...@googlegroups.com.

To view this discussion on the web, visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/goa-research-net/CAMCR53L2g3vzyPNrP%3D0-po_gDUH1EWZJGQsU1C0EWgH8u82RmQ%40mail.gmail.com.

[Carvalho]

Dear Roland,

This whole business is high rhetoric to stir up emotions. The amazing thing is, it's coming from the director of archives. It's as if he doesn't know what a document is. What is such a person doing heading the archive department. What he could have said is the government will appoint academics and researchers to trawl through the archives in Portugal and document whatever history they want to write about. This entire business makes no sense whatsoever. Alternatively, a venture very similar to the Qatar Digital Library which took place in collaboration with the British Library, should be pursued, where documents from Lisbon are scanned and shared by both libraries. But this bizarre path of demanding document and 'going to Portugal' to get them is what Sawant pursues for his own political leverage. Using highly emotive rhetoric to stir up controversy out of a nothing burger. He does this with the so-called temple issue which allegedly the Portuguese built over and now having never set foot in an archive he's stirring the pot with this.

Best regards,

Selma

https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/goa-research-net/52E3BC60-27E8-471A-9B2B-0C78BAB662CF%40gmail.com

.

[sandra lobo]

There are solutions already put in practice regarding these issues. For instance, between Portugal and Brazil there is the project Resgate - Bem-vindo - Projeto Resgate (hotsiteprojetoresgate.com). It is ridiculous to think in other terms

Sandra Ataíde Lobo  

https://giepcip.wordpress.com/

tmn. ++351 930690459

---

De: goa-rese...@googlegroups.com <goa-rese...@googlegroups.com> em nome de John de Figueiredo <john...@sbcglobal.net>
Enviado: 24 de maio de 2023 23:10
Para: goa-rese...@googlegroups.com <goa-rese...@googlegroups.com>
Assunto: Re: Responder: [GRN] Plan to get historical papers from Portugal put on hold: Minister

 

To view this discussion on the web, visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/goa-research-net/E7C53050-9F36-4321-A3A9-40923F7C4C80%40sbcglobal.net.

[john menezes]

Dear Goan Researchers

If international scholars writing theses on Goa have already accessed the documents which Portugal holds, they why rely on Portugal to submit the documents?

The attached thesis of Luis Miguel Costa Serra Coelho at the European University Institute, Florenca, dated 17 September 2018 is very revealing indeed, hence I am sharing it with Research Net.

Regards,

John Menezes

https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/goa-research-net/8401707.1250279.1684992426798%40mail.yahoo.com

.