The Literary Maladies of Diaspora Goans by Ben Antao

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Selma Cardoso

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Aug 25, 2018, 3:34:54 AM8/25/18
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Ahead of the release of the September 'Seasonal Blooms' issue of the Joao Roque Literary Journal, we bring you Ben Antao's piece which is featured in the issue.


'I understand that the place of one’s childhood and early influences leave an indelible stamp on the memory and subconscious. But can the influence be so profound as to negate all subsequently lived experiences in other lands?  Indeed, this seems to be the malady afflicting Goans in the diaspora who at one time in their lives had the luck to sample life in colonial East Africa.'

Read full text here:

We publish the best in Goan or Goa-centric short and long-form narrative writing and we appreciate respectful discussion on everything we publish.

Best wishes,
Selma Carvalho
Editor

Augusto Pinto

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Aug 26, 2018, 5:08:37 PM8/26/18
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After I wrote what I did above it struck me that perhaps there was a subtle tone in Ben’s piece that suggested (in a genteel way) that the East African immigrants to the Western world were a tad snobby and  clannish and that they tended to exclude those Goans who came via other routes, as did Ben himself or perhaps Selma too, from their conversations.

But I’ve heard from other sources that there are all sorts of “caste” gradations perpetrated in the heavens which people who share my ancestry perpetrate. 

For instance the more recently migrated Portuguese passport Goans born and bred and educated in Goa who have to work at blue collar jobs to make ends meet especially when they first land on foreign soil were given the right royal Rane treatment by other “Goans” who came in or acquired more fortunate circumstances - and that might include those who share Ben’s or Selma’s backgrounds.

Over and out!

Augusto 

Sent from my iPhone

On 26-Aug-2018, at 8:23 AM, Augusto Pinto <pint...@gmail.com> wrote:

I think that Ben’s mulling over the East African Goans’ sense of loss over Africa, in fact the idea that it was paradise, is quite interesting.

I’d like to add my two cents if not shillings worth from my own, albeit short, sojourn in Kenya where I was born and lived the first decade of my life in the sixties.

The idea that Africa was “paradise” was one that was believed in by those who were born or at least spent their early years there and then migrated to the West.

It wasn’t always so for the generation who were born and migrated there from Goa. I’ve mentioned my father on this forum before who used to obsessively remark “Mhaka Goenchich mati zai” firmly believing that they had crossed the ocean for economic reasons although their hearts were in Goa.

When it was time to leave after those East African countries got decolonized that generation by and large returned to Goa creating in the seventies a vibrant community of “Africanders” as they were known.

It was the young Goan adults, like my older siblings, for whom Goa had little charm and who went to England and then Canada and Australia and so forth believing that their prospects there would be better.

As for the notion that Africa was a “paradise” I think this is, if not pure bull, at least highly exaggerated. The educational system wasn’t that great - higher education was particularly a big problem. 

It’s true that for employment they were favoured by the white bosses over other Asians and certainly the native Africans but they could only go that far and no further. It was only their conditioning that they should be satisfied with their lot and not create too much “matata” (as Braz Menezes would put it) that the picture becomes a little rosy.

One thing that did contribute to the creation of the paradise myth was the building of a feeling of a “Goan community” and I think that several commentators from Theresa Albuquerque to Stella Mascarenhas to Selma have dwelled upon this. I think that when the East African Goans get all nostalgic about how things were back there in Africa it’s this sense of community that they miss most.

After they went to the West this sense of community has disintegrated and I expect that the generation that was born and grew up there will care little about their parents’ obsessions.

I think this loss of a community in their new countries would partly explain Ben’s puzzlement as to why the East African Goans cannot write coherently about their experiences in their new refuges. They don’t have a common thread to connect with their fellow Goans who will be their main audience.

Augusto 
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Jeanne Hromnik

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Aug 27, 2018, 4:59:50 AM8/27/18
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Dear Augusto

While I wonder at how many feet you have and how many places you manage to put them in, I agree wholeheartedly with you and thank you for your post. For me, the following strikes at the heart of the matter. 

"I think this loss of a community in their new countries would partly explain Ben’s puzzlement as to why the East African Goans cannot write coherently about their experiences in their new refuges. They don’t have a common thread to connect with their fellow Goans who will be their main audience."

It seems to me that novelists like Jhumpa Lahiri are so overwhelmingly successful precisely because they draw upon the experience of their new community in their new country, i.e. Bengalis in the U.S. I find it difficult to write good fiction because I do not have such a community to draw on. The best I can do is write about inability or else draw upon what entered the heart and permeated one's being, i.e those 'paradiscal' days in a country of blatant injustice and racial inequality in which we lived happily, but not ever after.

Jeanne


On Sun, Aug 26, 2018 at 9:17 AM, Augusto Pinto <pint...@gmail.com> wrote:
After I wrote what I did above it struck me that perhaps there was a subtle tone in Ben’s piece that suggested (in a genteel way) that the East African immigrants to the Western world were a tad snobby and  clannish and that they tended to exclude those Goans who came via other routes, as did Ben himself or perhaps Selma too, from their conversations.

But I’ve heard from other sources that there are all sorts of “caste” gradations perpetrated in the heavens which people who share my ancestry perpetrate. 

For instance the more recently migrated Portuguese passport Goans born and bred and educated in Goa who have to work at blue collar jobs to make ends meet especially when they first land on foreign soil were given the right royal Rane treatment by other “Goans” who came in or acquired more fortunate circumstances - and that might include those who share Ben’s or Selma’s backgrounds.

Over and out!

Augusto 

Sent from my iPhone

On 26-Aug-2018, at 8:23 AM, Augusto Pinto <pint...@gmail.com> wrote:

I think that Ben’s mulling over the East African Goans’ sense of loss over Africa, in fact the idea that it was paradise, is quite interesting.

I’d like to add my two cents if not shillings worth from my own, albeit short, sojourn in Kenya where I was born and lived the first decade of my life in the sixties.

The idea that Africa was “paradise” was one that was believed in by those who were born or at least spent their early years there and then migrated to the West.

It wasn’t always so for the generation who were born and migrated there from Goa. I’ve mentioned my father on this forum before who used to obsessively remark “Mhaka Goenchich mati zai” firmly believing that they had crossed the ocean for economic reasons although their hearts were in Goa.

When it was time to leave after those East African countries got decolonized that generation by and large returned to Goa creating in the seventies a vibrant community of “Africanders” as they were known.

It was the young Goan adults, like my older siblings, for whom Goa had little charm and who went to England and then Canada and Australia and so forth believing that their prospects there would be better.

As for the notion that Africa was a “paradise” I think this is, if not pure bull, at least highly exaggerated. The educational system wasn’t that great - higher education was particularly a big problem. 

It’s true that for employment they were favoured by the white bosses over other Asians and certainly the native Africans but they could only go that far and no further. It was only their conditioning that they should be satisfied with their lot and not create too much “matata” (as Braz Menezes would put it) that the picture becomes a little rosy.

One thing that did contribute to the creation of the paradise myth was the building of a feeling of a “Goan community” and I think that several commentators from Theresa Albuquerque to Stella Mascarenhas to Selma have dwelled upon this. I think that when the East African Goans get all nostalgic about how things were back there in Africa it’s this sense of community that they miss most.

After they went to the West this sense of community has disintegrated and I expect that the generation that was born and grew up there will care little about their parents’ obsessions.

I think this loss of a community in their new countries would partly explain Ben’s puzzlement as to why the East African Goans cannot write coherently about their experiences in their new refuges. They don’t have a common thread to connect with their fellow Goans who will be their main audience.

Augusto 
Sent from my iPhone

On 25-Aug-2018, at 11:05 AM, 'Selma Cardoso' via The Goa Book Club <goa-book-club@googlegroups.com> wrote:

Ahead of the release of the September 'Seasonal Blooms' issue of the Joao Roque Literary Journal, we bring you Ben Antao's piece which is featured in the issue.


'I understand that the place of one’s childhood and early influences leave an indelible stamp on the memory and subconscious. But can the influence be so profound as to negate all subsequently lived experiences in other lands?  Indeed, this seems to be the malady afflicting Goans in the diaspora who at one time in their lives had the luck to sample life in colonial East Africa.'

Read full text here:

We publish the best in Goan or Goa-centric short and long-form narrative writing and we appreciate respectful discussion on everything we publish.

Best wishes,
Selma Carvalho
Editor

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Mervyn Maciel

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Aug 28, 2018, 12:30:00 PM8/28/18
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 I'm afraid I don't agree with Ben Antao's generalisation  about East African
Goans. Kenya was a paradise for many of us and what's wrong with reminiscing
our past?
  As for Goans in Canada, I am least qualified to comment but feel there are
men like Mel D'Souza and Braz Menezes who have made their contribution
in their new home.
Cyprian Fernandes has informed me that he chooses not to enter the fray
on Goa Book Club.
May I just close with this Quote:

"Africa changes you forever like nowhere on earth.
Once you have been there, you will never be the same.
But how do you begin to describe its magic to someone who has 
never felt it?


Mervyn Maciel





On 25-Aug-2018, at 11:05 AM, 'Selma Cardoso' via The Goa Book Club <goa-bo...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

Ahead of the release of the September 'Seasonal Blooms' issue of the Joao Roque Literary Journal, we bring you Ben Antao's piece which is featured in the issue.


'I understand that the place of one’s childhood and early influences leave an indelible stamp on the memory and subconscious. But can the influence be so profound as to negate all subsequently lived experiences in other lands?  Indeed, this seems to be the malady afflicting Goans in the diaspora who at one time in their lives had the luck to sample life in colonial East Africa.'

Read full text here:

We publish the best in Goan or Goa-centric short and long-form narrative writing and we appreciate respectful discussion on everything we publish.

Best wishes,
Selma Carvalho
Editor

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Eugene Correia

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Aug 29, 2018, 4:16:53 AM8/29/18
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I was to reply earlier and provide reference to Merwyn's book, Bwana Karani, and also to JM Nazareth's Brown Man, Black Country. To some Goa is heaven, so be it. Having read Ururu Street, MJ Vassanji's short stories about life in Mombasa, and many other books, besides seeing the movie, Mississippi Masala, by the American-Indian Mira Nair, who lives for long time in Uganda from her adopted homeland, USA.
In the movie, the main character says that he would like to return to Uganda which he considers his "home". However, his African friend reminds him that Uganda may be in his heart and he loves leaving there but the land belongs to the Africans. He must go now as the time has come for Africans to take back what belongs to them. Such sentiment also lies with African Goans. My uncle always talked about Uganda which he left unwillingly because of the deportation order by Idi Amin.
For Cyprian, Kenya was undoubtedly "paradise". The land doesn't have to be a natural paradise (Adam and Eve is said to have lived lived in one such place, though we will never know). Merwyn has mentioned Braz and Mel, and I would add the late Ladis da Silva, who wrote about his Zanzibar.  Nostalgia for a place where one has seen the best of his or her days is something that cannot be taken away, and the only thing that's best to do is to express it in words.
i have some questions about the book, Goa Masala. The book is said to be a joint venture by 55 Plus Goan Association and A Plus Publishing, which is owned by Ben, as I am told. Each contributor was given a complimentary copy, and the rest of the 300 copies were sold on the very first day. 
The Goa edition was published by Goa, 1556, owned by Fred Noronha, and A Publishing. So, understandably 55 Plus was not involved and may we know if permission from the association was obtained, as it should normally be. Ben said he paid for the printing of the Goa issue, but may I know why? Doesn't the publisher prints to make profits and from which 55 Plus should have got royalty. What was the type of arrangement between 55 Plus and A Plus? The Association has an editorial board, as per its website, and the names are given of those who served on it at that time. It's also said that "The project was undertaken by Rudi Rodrigues, leader of the 55PGA Book Club, an artist and art designer, who was assisted by an editorial team of Ben Antao, Alick Alphonso, Joan do Rosario, Eric De Souza, and Al Lobo. "
 I think I was a member of the 55 Plus at that time, but I never heard of the book club. I didn't know about it till now. Perhaps, 55 Book Club should join the Goa Book Club!
The price of the book on Amazon is Cdn $78.05, and available in two formats, print and Kindle. The Goa edition is priced 
Rs 195. Just curious to know how many books were sold on Amazon and who got the royalty. Why did Ben pay for the book to be published in Goa? 
 Since the second one could not be published because of lack of quality pieces, I cannot understand why the editors didn't edit the articles and, if needed, get further input from the writers to bring up its quality. The editors were said to be Rudi and Norman da Costa. No mention of who the rest were on the editorial board. Was there any condition that a published writer would have to purchase 10 copies, as alleged by some?

Eugene Correia


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Braz Menezes

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Aug 29, 2018, 4:16:53 AM8/29/18
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I must admit that when I first saw Selma’s excerpt of Ben Antao I was a bit disappointed that what appeared to be a serious journalistic undertaking, was beginning to resort to ‘shock’ headlines to increase readership. I succumbed and  clicked on Ben’s piece. I assumed perhaps, like many of us Ben may have skipped on his meds.
Then my seasonal good friends Augusto and Jeanne also joined with their comments. It is not clear whether Ben’s original comments referred to the Goan Diaspora in the UK, Canada, Australia (by dragging Cyprian Fernandes into the discussion). If Ben is referring only to Goan Canadian writers, then I will have no hesitation returning to this discussion. For now, I will comment that the best advice to writers has always been to write what you know about, and as long as you have an audience, your work is done.


Eugene Correia

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Aug 30, 2018, 8:46:47 AM8/30/18
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Furthermore on the "Malady" affecting us, I located the book, Goa Masala, from one of my bookshelves. I was surprised to read, 
"To Eugene,  a Canadian with a heart in Goa  --- Rudi" and down the page, "Best Wishes -- Ben Antao Feb 6/10". It triggered my memory that I was present at its launch and Rudi gave me the book after I took a photo of him and Ben standing together holding a copy of the book. I think the photo was published in a Goa newspaper, but without credit to the photographer. Thanks, anyway.
On the next page, more revelations. "Published by A Plus Publishing, 18 Geraldron Crescent, Toronto, ON M2J 2R6  416-250-8885  Email: ben....@rogers.com"

So, A Plus (seems like sister-concern of 55Plus haha) was the publisher, as 55Plus is not mentioned. When Rudi gave me the book, I had asked him about how published it and he told me it was A Plus Publishing. So why was it mentioned as a "joint venture" and why was the 55Plus involved? Looks fishy, and perhaps we can apply Formalin to keep it fresh :-(

Did the editorial committee the same for the second book or was it changed? Norman da Costa, the editor for the second one, was not there in the editorial committee. Can anyone from the editorial committee answer, please? Or, if none of them have read the thread, can someone post to one of them to come back and clear the air?

This tale is far from the stories of Interpreter of Maladies, by Jhumpa Lahiri (Nilanjana Sudeshna), winner of the Pulitzer Prize for Fiction. 

Let me leave with one quote from Jhumpa's book, “Still, there are times I am bewildered by each mile I have traveled, each meal I have eaten, each person I have known, each room in which I have slept. As ordinary as it all appears, there are times when it is beyond my imagination.” 
I, for one, is bewildered by the storm circling the Selma's post inviting readers to visit her website.

May I suggest the title for the next book,  Goan Maladies. Could be published by Joan, Pedro, Ladro Journal haha.

Eugene



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Augusto Pinto

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Aug 30, 2018, 8:46:47 AM8/30/18
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Since Ben is not on GBC and Cyprian may not wish to comment publicly about a comment on his book let me respond to Braz’s attempt to muddy the waters. Read inline:

Sent from my iPhone

On 29-Aug-2018, at 2:36 AM, Braz Menezes <bmen...@sympatico.ca> wrote:

I must admit that when I first saw Selma’s excerpt of Ben Antao I was a bit disappointed that what appeared to be a serious journalistic undertaking, was beginning to resort to ‘shock’ headlines to increase readership...

Me: If the title is “shocking” then I’d say that it serves its purpose.

Braz: . It is not clear whether Ben’s original comments referred to the Goan Diaspora in the UK, Canada, Australia (by dragging Cyprian Fernandes into the discussion).

Me: I think it’s quite clear that Ben was referring to Cyprian’s readers who are scattered in the diaspora whom he accused of “pandering to” by their deluded belief that Kenya and for that matter East Africa was a “paradise”. For instance Mervyn Maciel living in England in his response that trails blithely asserts that for many people East Africa was a paradise. Does HE agree that the African peoples who were being brutally suppressed was “paradise” for him? It’s hardly a secret that lots of Africanders share this sentiment not quite realising that they were the ones who were helping make it a hell for the African population. I don’t expect the the common ex-East African Goan to hold such opinions. But when writers who are members of a forum like GBC make such assertions then I think it’s sad to put it mildly.

Braz: If Ben is referring only to Goan Canadian writers, then I will have no hesitation returning to this discussion. 

Me: Come back to the discussion Braz, it’ll be interesting to hear you! For although Ben was speaking about the Goan East African diaspora the example he offered was Canada which he’s fairly familiar with as are you.

Braz: For now, I will comment that the best advice to writers has always been to write what you know about, and as long as you have an audience, your work is done.

Me: Sure thing! But if one believes and writes questionable things then readers don’t have to blindly swallow this.

Cheers!
Augusto 




Mervyn Maciel

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Aug 31, 2018, 3:35:16 AM8/31/18
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Following my earlier comments, I can't understand why Ben Antao and now Augusto 
are all out to make "whipping boys" of us, East African Goans.
  Perhaps the appended  letter from my dear friend (Francis Noronha) from Canada,
who like me, and many of my East Africa friends still remembers our "Yesterdays
in Paradise",  will set the record straight.


Mervyn Maciel

Here's the letter:


A RESPONSE TO “THE LITERARY MALADIES OF DIASPORA GOANS” BY BEN ANTAO
Dear Mr. Antao,
I have just read your diatribe above attacking author Cyprian Fernandes and the many other Goans “who immigrated to Canada from East Africa in the 1960’s and 1970’s who still hearken back with nostalgia to the good times of the so-called paradise they basked in under the British colonial sun.” I am one of these Goans that you are so disappointed with because they have failed to live up to the lofty goals that you have apparently achieved in that your fiction and non-fiction “embraces” your experiences in Goa and Toronto. Bravo! You point out to all of us lesser beings that “a writer has to draw upon his lived experiences if he seeks to create literary fiction.” Thank you for this original and inspiring insight into the art of creative writing. Your encouraging words to aspiring writers fills me with the desire to put pen to paper in an effort to emulate the sterling example you have set us in your own literary creative fiction.
I confess, however, that I am confused. Even a cursory reading of Cyprian Fernandes’ two books, “Yesterday in Paradise” and “Stars Next Door” would reveal that they are not meant to be “literary fiction”. Unlike you, Cyprian, (whom I have yet to have the pleasure to meet), is an unpretentious writer who sets out in “Yesterday in Paradise” to give a personal insight from the perspective of an investigative journalist into events at a particularly interesting and turbulent period of Kenya’s history. During the 60’s and 70’s, Kenya was emerging from the cocoon of colonial rule and taking its first faltering steps as an independent nation. During these transitional years, I was a student at the first multi-racial College in Kenya (later the University of Nairobi) and then away for three years as a student in Britain. I found Cyprian’s account of the political in-fighting and intrigue of those early years absolutely enthralling and enlightening and it filled the gaps in my own knowledge of the events that eventually led so many of us to decide that, much though we loved Kenya and its peoples, we had to take what was for most of us a painful step to emigrate to other countries where we could make a more secure future for ourselves and for our families.
From your account I gather that you were born and raised in Goa and immigrated to Canada when you were 25. You probably had little knowledge or interest in Kenya. I don’t say that in a negative way because there was probably no reason for you to take more than a cursory interest in an African country. You are probably not aware of the deeply personal struggle that Goans and many other Indians of my generation had in leaving the only country that we had known as “home” to venture to an uncertain future in countries such as England, Canada and Australia. A closer reading of Cyprian’s book may inform you of some these personal struggles. I left a comfortable and secure job as a teacher in Kenya and arrived in Lethbridge, Alberta in 1975 to start a new career at the age of 38. I have no regrets and Canada has been a wonderful home to me, my wife and daughter. Most Goans I know who immigrated from Kenya to Canada
have not spent time in wistful musing about the paradise we left behind as you seem to think.
We have moved on, forged new careers, made many new friends and contributed to the
communities we became an integral part of, as, I am sure, you have, Mr. Antao. That does not
mean that we have erased our memories of the past whether we “basked” or toiled under the
“British colonial sun”.
I have happy memories of growing up in Kenya, of travels in East Africa, of climbing Kilimanjaro,
Kenya and Elgon, of playing hockey with my friends, no less than six of whom were destined to
become Olympians, of teaching in some of the fine schools in Kenya including historic Allidina
Visram High School in Mombasa, of great holidays spent at the coast and visiting several
wonderful beaches. I have memories of dear classmates, students and friends. I was thrilled
when I browsed through Cyprian’s second book, “Stars Next Door”, to find that it recorded the
achievements of many Goans for posterity. I knew many of the people who are mentioned as
classmates and friends and reading about them brought back many happy memories.
To use your own terms, Mr. Antao, I was astonished and filled with anguish that you so casually
and superciliously discredited the efforts of a fellow Goan whose two books have put on record
events and persons that needed to be recorded by a writer who had a unique opportunity as a
reporter to get the inside scoop in a way that the rest of us didn’t. Neither of Cyprian’s books
has anything to do with the colonial period or with discussing the merits or demerits of British
rule. You thought “he’d be more inclined to be objective, judicious and rather circumspect than
be eager to pander to his compatriots in the diaspora”. Frankly, I don’t know what you are
referring to and I am inclined to believe that you had some preconceived notions of what the
book was about and were upset when your cursory perusal revealed nothing in the book
remotely related to a bitter indictment of British colonial rule in Kenya. Why should it? That is
not what Cyprian set out to do. If you truly are interested in appraisals of British colonial rule in
Kenya and elsewhere in Africa, there is a whole body of writing that covers every aspect of
policy and implementation as, indeed, there is on the rule of the British Raj in India and the
Portuguese in Goa. But then, you as a journalist, teacher and writer would know that. So why
do you go looking for that in Cyprian’s book that has nothing to do with that branch of study?
As for the term “paradise” that you seem to find so offensive, nowhere in Cyprian’s book do I
find any reference to British Colonial rule as paradise. Rather it is clear to me that in retrospect,
Cyprian sees his youth and life in Kenya as a happy and exciting time. To me, this is quite
remarkable as he grew up in circumstances so different to my own comfortable and
conventional upbringing; Cyprian came from a family where his mother had to leave an abusive
husband and raise her family working a variety of menial jobs to feed her clutch of children.
Then there came the traumatic ending to his formal education, an early indication of his
stubborn resolve to stand up for his principles regardless of consequences. At the age of
fourteen (at which age I was still learning to tie my shoe laces), he set out with determination
to make it as a reporter in spite of his lack of qualifications. All things considered, I saw much to
admire in Cyprian’s survival in his career as a reporter and his courage in exposing the dark
underbelly of Kenya’s politics – I know that I would not have had the intestinal fortitude to do
so. Fortunately, his dear wife’s insistence that that they leave Kenya when he began to receive
death threats almost definitely saved his life. We know that there were others who probed too
deeply and did not live to tell the tale. Sadly, Mr. Antao, you dismiss all Cyprian’s extraordinary
life experiences with a sneering remark about “a messiah (who) had sprung with spring water
to quench their (East African Goans) thirst and longing for the bygone days.”
As you are a writer and would wish your work to be judged fairly, I would suggest that you read
“Yesterday in Paradise” over again, this time more carefully. You will discover that it is not a
work of literary fiction, nor is it an evaluation of British colonial rule. Rather it is a factual and
highly personal account of a young boy growing up in Kenya and overcoming the obstacles of
life in his own resourceful way. Most of us Goans who grew up in Kenya had caring parents
whose hard work, middle class values and sacrifices enabled their children to lead happy lives
with opportunities for sports and other recreational activities. Cyprian did not start off with
many of the advantages that many of the rest of us enjoyed. The fact that he succeeded in
making a life for himself, marrying the love of his life and achieving many of his goals is a
remarkable testimony to himself and his wonderful mother. He looks back to his life in Kenya
and considers that he was living in Paradise. I think that in itself is remarkable, Mr. Antao, and I
admire Cyprian all the more for it. I hope that you too can feel the same about your origins in
Goa, a homeland that is dear to me in spite of the colonial power that held sway there.
As a Goan who immigrated from Kenya to Canada, I don’t really care what you think of me –
and I think most other Goans in my category would agree with me. However, you have made
some highly questionable and uncalled for criticisms of Cyprian Fernandes and his books and I
really think that you owe him an apology for judging him too hastily. While you are about it, you
may also consider apologising to Juliet Rebello and J. D’Souza for the patronising and
condescending manner in which you treated their well-meant remarks. You may be a very
accomplished author but that is no way to treat your friends..
I rest my case.
Francis Noronha
August 29, 2018, Lethbridge, Alberta.





 


Mervyn Maciel

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Aug 31, 2018, 3:35:17 AM8/31/18
to goa-bo...@googlegroups.com, Estb. 1994! Goa's Premiere Mailing List
To bring this unsavoury saga to an end, I am pleased to publish an apology
my friend Cyprian Fernandes has received from Ben Antao together
with Cyprian's postscript.


Mervyn Maciel


Dear Cyprian

The message I tried to convey in my article has obviously been misunderstood. I have read both your books. You’re a good man and I apologize for disturbing your peace.

Warm regards
Ben


Received with thanks. I now await a similar gesture from the editors of the Joao-Roque Literary Journal to see if they can display the same quality of responsibility as Ben has done and remove the posting from the Internet. Cyprian Fernandes

Venantius J Pinto

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Aug 31, 2018, 4:34:55 AM8/31/18
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WOW? Pont to ponder: What makes an apology?! Does it help to categorize one's thoughts under "misunderstood message" and have no concern to clarify the thought process and intent behind the "message"? Ok, so the author is a good man (any reference, thoughts, reasoning?), but I missing the point of why that was said! 

Anyway, what do I know compared to many Goans. 

Venantius J Pinto 

+ 

On Fri, Aug 31, 2018 at 3:00 AM Mervyn Maciel <mervynels.w...@gmail.com> wrote:
To bring this unsavoury saga to an end, I am pleased to publish an apology
my friend Cyprian Fernandes has received from Ben Antao together
with Cyprian's postscript.


Mervyn Maciel







*Dear CyprianThe message I tried to convey in my article has obviously been

misunderstood. I have read both your books. You’re a good man and I
apologize for disturbing your peace.Warm regardsBen*


*Received with thanks. I now await a similar gesture from the editors of

the Joao-Roque Literary Journal to see if they can display the same quality
of responsibility as Ben has done and remove the posting from the Internet.
Cyprian Fernandes*
>>> "*Africa changes you forever like nowhere on earth.*
>>> *Once you have been there, you will never be the same.*
>>> *But how do you begin to describe its magic to someone who has *
>>> *never felt it?*
>>>
>>>
>>> *Mervyn Maciel*

>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Aug 27, 2018 at 9:59 AM Jeanne Hromnik <jeanne...@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Dear Augusto
>>>>
>>>> While I wonder at how many feet you have and how many places you manage
>>>> to put them in, I agree wholeheartedly with you and thank you for your
>>>> post. For me, the following strikes at the heart of the matter.
>>>>
>>>> *"I think this loss of a community in their new countries would partly

>>>> explain Ben’s puzzlement as to why the East African Goans cannot write
>>>> coherently about their experiences in their new refuges. They don’t have a
>>>> common thread to connect with their fellow Goans who will be their main
>>>> audience."*

>>>>> .
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augusto pinto

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Aug 31, 2018, 4:34:56 AM8/31/18
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Is it appropriate for an "apology" sent in a personal capacity by a person who isn't even a member of this forum to another person meant to be aired like this?

Augusto

To view this discussion on the web, visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/goa-book-club/CAL65L0tQRW7Bazf87Cr4B-kkZjd2a-RE8PXjcAJzdTBktETf%3DA%40mail.gmail.com.

augusto pinto

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Aug 31, 2018, 4:34:56 AM8/31/18
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Dear Mervyn,

It would be nice if you didn't talk the matter personally but if you choose to do so, there's nothing much I can do about that - unless you also want a meaningless apology from me. Do you?

In fact I have very little personal contact with the people whose names may have cropped up on this thread. It's the issues that were raised and not the people whose names may have been mentioned which interested me., 

One of those issues was was the construction of myths and the way memory works..Another, and a more important one for me, is regards how one should regard colonialism. If I mentioned your name in the context it's because of your stance towards it. My contention is that a colonial regime is an evil regime and to remember it as a paradise is an insult to the people who had to suffer under it. But I think I'm just repeating myself here so...

Cheers!
Augusto 

 

On Fri, Aug 31, 2018 at 1:05 PM Mervyn Maciel <mervynels.w...@gmail.com> wrote:
To view this discussion on the web, visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/goa-book-club/CAL65L0ugCHF9xO1Litf36XuRv0xPjDg0rJpzLRnUJhgEEcgL4Q%40mail.gmail.com.

Braz Menezes

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Aug 31, 2018, 1:12:52 PM8/31/18
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Dear Augusto, 
I know that Mervyn is coping with a bad flu and must also see his beloved Elsie at the Home. I would suggest you put all discussion on this unfortunate ‘think piece’ by Ben Antao on hold for another time.
Similarly, to suggest my last comment was ‘an attempt to muddy the waters’ was, in my opinion,  ‘ridiculously fantastic’ (to quote Selma). One cannot muddy waters already contaminated with serious offensive material. 
I suggest a good read and a re-read of Francis Noronha’s rebuttal of Ben’s theory.
Neither Ben,  nor Selma, will ever know enough to be able to describe life in colonial East Africa. They both tried at one stage, to capture a bit of that magic, but when other home-grown authors such as Mervyn, Cyprian, Maria (Lynch), Larry Nazareth, an myself came along, a clearer picture has emerged. All these are worthwhile reads easily available on Amazon, among others.
Cheers
Braz




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Francis Rodrigues

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Sep 1, 2018, 3:54:07 AM9/1/18
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Much as I respect both author & publisher of said piece, 
Braz said it all -
"Neither Ben,  nor Selma, will ever know enough to be able to describe life in colonial East Africa. They both tried at one stage...."

FR

Mervyn Maciel

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Sep 1, 2018, 3:54:07 AM9/1/18
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Dear Augusto,

Having published the rebuttal from my friend Francis Noronha, I felt it was only fair to
include the apology from Ben Antao.
  But for Francis's letter and one from Cyprian himself, I doubt an apology would be
forthcoming.
  Speaking personally, I had gone to Kenya to earn a living (having being orphaned
at a very young age and with a younger brother to support) and NOT with any intention
of propping up a colonial regime as you tend to imply in your posts.
   I feel sure that the majority of Goans who went out to East Africa went out similarly
to earn a living as there were no comparable openings for them either in Portuguese Goa
or India.

Mervyn Maciel

To view this discussion on the web, visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/goa-book-club/CABzMD-Wx5LCE5vqpT2Ch3f1d3JifR%2Bxtu4FmTim1N0_zi3r7EA%40mail.gmail.com.

V M

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Sep 1, 2018, 6:41:03 AM9/1/18
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I have been reading these exchanges. Some scattered observations.

1) "The Literary Maladies of..." is an interesting approach to many
topics. Here, it's possible to drop the word "Goans" because diaspora
is universally associated with complicated and often contradictory
feelings and circumstances. The cultural output of a self-conscious
diaspora responds to different compulsions than similarly
self-conscious "natives". What is more, different diasporas will
naturally generate varying points of view from which to make sense of
their new realities, despite sharing the same universe of meaning they
left behind. It's fallacious, pointless, and misguided to judge one
subset via the presumptions and mores of another. Yet, we keep doing
this in the most addled, self-inflicted manner. Ajeeb hai yeh Goa ke
log, yes indeed!

2) Literary criticism cannot be "rebutted", least of all by personal
attack. Dialogue has to be initiated by more literary criticism that
suggests different approaches, or posits contradictory value
judgements. In this instance, the critic has graciously apologised,
because in his words, "The message I tried to convey in my article has
obviously been misunderstood" and the author has equally gracefully
"received with thanks." In this manner, Ben and Cyprian have resolved
a literary contretemps focused on implication. They are in agreement
now. There may be some or many who do not wish the matter to be
settled, and will attempt to keep inciting diatribe. Let them stand
exposed.

3) There are two larger + more deep seated issues here. I will address
them at greater length.

- unfair judgements.

This problem is aptly encapsulated by (a) Mervyn Maciel's plaint
(which many other 'Afrikanders' believe, and have experienced) that
East African Goans are often convenient "whipping boys" , and also (b)
by Augusto's oft-repeated comment (which many bandwagon-jump when
useful) that "a colonial regime is an evil regime and to remember it
as a paradise is an insult to the people who had to suffer under it."

But it is certainly not that simple. Human experiences and memories
are diverse, fragile, tenuous and highly individual. When those come
together to make art + literature, it does not necessarily align with
politics (which are in any case mightily fungible).

Remember here that Camoes wrote part of his soaring, grandiose Lusiads
in prison, and perhaps the greatest music of upliftment emerged from
slavery. We have learned time and again that Paradise is man-made,
perceived in the brain. See the interludes of pure joy - paradisiacal!
- in the Holocaust memoirs of Primo Levi. My 93-year-old friend, the
freedom fighter Alvaro Pereira often tells me with great conviction
the best years of his life were in Aguada jail (even though he was
sadistically tortured there by the dreaded Agente Monteiro).
Similarly, most Goans old enough to remember those years before 1961
wax rhapsodic about "good old days" even though they lived under
colonialism, with very real victims. And what about today? Do we not
live in times of slavery, oppression and exclusion? Can a child
growing up now not remember her 21st century experience of Goa as a
kind of paradise? Can I not? Is that also an insult to people
suffering through the same moment?

Furthermore, unlike other diasporic waves that left Goa, the East
African Goans suffered expulsion, and disenfranchisment. After toiling
generations building new lives, amidst people they often loved and
certainly identified with, that incalculably precious bedrock of
identity and belonging was stolen from them in a calamitous
disruption. It was a monstrous episode that did not have to happen,
and is largely regretted by all parties involved (something like
Partition).

This is particularly the case with Kenya above all, the third nation
whose early independent history was substantially shaped by its tiny
Goan minority (India and Portugal are the others, there's also
Pakistan to make a fourth) such as Pia Gama Pinto, Joseph Murumbi, JM
Nazareth and Fitz de Souza, and certainly both Braz Menezes and
Cyprian Fernandes. They worked with evident idealism in that greatly
defining postcolonial moment, and when it did not happen they were
dispossessed, experiencing true exile. It is both churlish and absurd
to somehow deny or qualify their expressions of the feelings that
resulted, in whatever form that might occur. They are not wrong, and
there is nothing wrong about it.

- Who should write (or paint) what?

On July 4 earlier this year, I shared on Facebook a small 'chemical
painting' by FN Souza that depicts the 4th of July. That work emerged
after I challenged the artist to explain why he'd spent some three
decades in America, but kept on creating images (masterpieces, really)
redolent with feelings for Goa (above all) and London. In fact, he did
have a few other "America' works, but easily less than 1% of his
oeuvre, and this despite rarely leaving New York, let alone the US.
Souza's initial answer (which I readily accept) was "So what?"

Look across the board at first generation immigrant artists and
writers in North America, and only a tiny handful engage successfully
with something other than their homeland, and its migrants. There are
exceptions - the unbelievably skilled 'The Golden Gate' novel in verse
by Vikram Seth stands out - but very few.

In my view, there's probably real physical trauma (which could likely
be mapped in the brain) that goes along with adults being transplanted
from the global South to late capitalism in America and Canada. We can
see in most people that it takes a lifetime to get over, and usually
prominently hangs over the second generation as well. To go back to
literature, the two most highly acclaimed writers of Indian origin in
Canada are Rohinton Mistry and MG Vassanji. The former's truly great
novels are all set in the Mumbai he left behind almost forty years
ago. The latter has a much larger output that spans different genres,
but his focus of interest is East African Indians in all of them.
(Since it is relevant here, see my review of his "returning home to
East Africa" memoir here:
https://www.livemint.com/Leisure/1TLXNCNKJSJUFY1MF7lqRL/A-returnees-memoir.html.)
Are these terrific writers sick? Ask them, and you'll surely get a
ruder answer than the one Souza gave me.

Finally, the books by Braz and Cyprian (and in fact, much of Ben's
excellent writing as well) fall into the category of literature of
retrieval. They remember and recount lost histories by filling in some
of the glaring, gaping blanks left in the literature written by
colonialists on one hand, and the indigenous on the other. In between
these two obviously compelling, dominant narratives, there was indeed
something very valuable and interesting and beautiful, and it is only
thanks to writers and artists that we can get a glimpse of it. I - for
one - have learned a lot from the Goan East African writers who have
endeavoured to find precious words to communicate elusive, ineffable
moments and emotions and characters that would otherwise now be
dissipated like dust.

Warm regards,

VM
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/goa-book-club/CACS-oSEQ1bBcMhYqoJ64zn8KETjfrXR%2BZ1z%3D%3Do%2BxGxZ1vx%3DZnA%40mail.gmail.com.
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Selma Cardoso

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Sep 1, 2018, 6:41:03 AM9/1/18
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Dear Francis,

It has never been my intention to describe life in East Africa. My interest has only been from a historical point of view. There are many disciplines in writing, some which will come from lived experience and others from research. Surely there is room for them all particularly in the Goan sphere where so little exists in terms of documentation. What is it about us Goans that we can't seem to make space for dialogue, that we can't seem to respect differing points of view, that our understanding of concepts doesn't move beyond the immediate and the personal, that we bogged only with petty frames of reference?

I tire, I really do tire sometimes and wonder if anything I do is worth doing, and yet when my spirits are at their lowest, the most touching validation will come from the most unexpected quarters. And I look back at the last 10 years of my life and catalogue the things I've managed to achieve from hosting the first ever exhibition on East African Goans, to recording and archiving their stories, to writing three books, to setting up what is now turning out to be a stellar literary journal, to winning a few awards along the way in the UK in fiction, and I think to myself, it's been worthwhile.

To each his own. Your resurrection in cyberspace having been noted.

Best,
selma

FR





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Jeanne Hromnik

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It's such a pity that Ben Antao trips himself up by his simplistic understanding of the East African 'paradise'. It is clear from the writings of our literary maladious writers, from Braz to Cyprian to my brother Larry Nazareth, that there was a serpent in that paradise.
Ben makes a very interesting literary point in his article, namely the difficulty diasporic writers have in engaging with their current realities -- Augusto has responded very well to this question in his response to Ben's article. 
This issue sent me to Google and to M G Vassanji, East Africa's most promient writer of Indian origin, to see how he has coped with this 'second migration'. It seems that most of his books are located in 'paradise' but he does continue into the territory beyond.
The following is from Wikipedia. Of course, it may have nothing to do with diasporic Goans (ha! ha!)

Vassanji's works have been extensively reviewed by literary critics and analyzed for their sociological context.[9][10][11] The focus of his writing is the situation of East African Indians. As a secondary theme, members of this community (like himself) later undergo a second migration to Europe, Canada, or the United States. Vassanji examines how the lives of his characters are affected by these migrations.[12][13] Vassanji looks at the relations between the Indian community, the native Africans and the colonial administration.[14] Though few of his characters ever return to India, the country's presence looms throughout his work; his 2007 novel The Assassins Song, however, is set almost entirely in India, where it was received as an Indian novel.

Vassanji writes about the effects of history and the interaction between personal and public histories, including folk and colonial history.[15] Vassanji's narratives follow the personal histories of his main characters; the historical perspective provided often leaves mysteries unsolved. The colonial history of Kenya and Tanzania serves as the backdrop for much of his work;[16] in the Assassin's Song, however, he tackles Indian folk culture and myths.


On Fri, Aug 31, 2018 at 8:42 PM, Mervyn Maciel <mervynels.w...@gmail.com> wrote:
Dear Augusto,

Having published the rebuttal from my friend Francis Noronha, I felt it was only fair to
include the apology from Ben Antao.
  But for Francis's letter and one from Cyprian himself, I doubt an apology would be
forthcoming.
  Speaking personally, I had gone to Kenya to earn a living (having being orphaned
at a very young age and with a younger brother to support) and NOT with any intention
of propping up a colonial regime as you tend to imply in your posts.
   I feel sure that the majority of Goans who went out to East Africa went out similarly
to earn a living as there were no comparable openings for them either in Portuguese Goa
or India.

Mervyn Maciel
On Fri, Aug 31, 2018 at 9:34 AM augusto pinto <pint...@gmail.com> wrote:
Is it appropriate for an "apology" sent in a personal capacity by a person who isn't even a member of this forum to another person meant to be aired like this?

Augusto

On Fri, Aug 31, 2018 at 1:05 PM Mervyn Maciel <mervynels.watuwashamba@gmail.com> wrote:
To bring this unsavoury saga to an end, I am pleased to publish an apology
my friend Cyprian Fernandes has received from Ben Antao together
with Cyprian's postscript.


Mervyn Maciel


Dear Cyprian

The message I tried to convey in my article has obviously been misunderstood. I have read both your books. You’re a good man and I apologize for disturbing your peace.

Warm regards
Ben


Received with thanks. I now await a similar gesture from the editors of the Joao-Roque Literary Journal to see if they can display the same quality of responsibility as Ben has done and remove the posting from the Internet. Cyprian Fernandes

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Frederick Noronha

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Sep 1, 2018, 6:47:01 AM9/1/18
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You forgot to mention Luis Assis Correia, J.M. Nazareth, Peter Nazareth...


On Sat, 1 Sep 2018 at 16:11, Jeanne Hromnik <jeanne...@gmail.com> wrote:
It's such a pity that Ben Antao trips himself up by his simplistic understanding of the East African 'paradise'. It is clear from the writings of our literary maladious writers, from Braz to Cyprian to my brother Larry Nazareth, that there was a serpent in that paradise. 

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Selma Cardoso

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Sep 1, 2018, 12:14:00 PM9/1/18
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Braz,

For the past five years the same coterie of people (small in number but loud in cyberspace) have been raking up the same needless controversies and acting as if they are the sole custodians of the East African legacy. 

Regardless, it has never stopped me from writing or serving the community I was born into, with various community projects. So this continued rankling in the end says a lot more about you than it does about me.

Incidentally, it's been nearly three years since I wrote anything about East Africa, and have gone on to establish an entirely different body of work, which I don't share on GBC. I've moved on both in the circles I inhabit and content I explore. Isn't it time you unstuck your broken record and did so too.

Best wishes,
selma

Eugene Correia

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Sep 1, 2018, 10:26:27 PM9/1/18
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VM has tried hus best to decipher them "Malday" as far it relates to African Goans, but the thing I would like to know is "a jeeb" thing. So often it's been written about that it's taken for granted. It's arributed to Nehru, but can VM provide a link to it. Or, the connotation in which the word "ajeeb" was used.
As I have was away from home, I will get back to the thread later on. I had sent a post earlier but it hasn't appeared.

Eugene

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Eugene Correia

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Sep 1, 2018, 11:37:28 PM9/1/18
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Many Goans still long for the "paradise" they felt Goa was under the Portuguese. Some groups still clamour for the return of the Portuguese. Even diehard freedom fighters like Lambert Mascarenhas of Sorrowing Lies My Land, is saddened by what has happened to Goa. Same with my family which was pro-Indian and I have iften been a victim of bsrbs from friends who are feeling the pain of Liberation. As a matter of fact, the Indian takeover of Goa was a beacon for the eventual freedom of African countries.
As far as I know, East African Goans, with the exception of a few, didn't have "political souls" . Those whi were in the forefront of Independence movement in Kenya primilarly, ehich has been well documented by Cyprian, were d erided and held as villians by a large segment of the community. I believe that, as many Indians in Western countries such as USA and Canada, they were living "in" these countires but they were not "of" these countries.
Ben himself have written gllowingly of his days in Goa in his first book, Images of Goa, his "paradise" when he was growing up. I don't know how many Goans haveparticipated in marches such as for Palestanians or for Indegenious Canadians. These issues didn't touch them directly just as the Africans' fight against colonialization. Canada is a "paradise" for most Goans but is it p paradise for the Indegenious peoples? These native Canadians seemthemselves as colonialized people. I attended a concert recently where these people had a bug banner saying, This Land, My Home. It was a twist to fhe national anthem, O Canada! My home snd native land....

Eugene









Jeanne Hromnik

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Sep 2, 2018, 5:16:49 AM9/2/18
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Dear Selma
Do you not think you are being a tad too personal in this response to Francis and guilty of the very thing you (rightly) crticise, i.e the personal way in which Goans respond to discussion of issues. Peter Nazareth commented on this some time ago in the context of the anthology he compiled of Goan writing.
I greatly respect all you have done in the field but I think you do yourself a disservice by responding in kind. 
Best wishes
Jeanne
  

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Wendell Rodricks

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Sep 2, 2018, 5:16:49 AM9/2/18
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I agree with Selma. Just because someone has not lived in a place doesn’t mean 
they cannot write about a topic they have researched.
 It is a point of view that is expressed. And it should be accepted.
Just last week, I wrote a single paragraph praising the people who lived in the Kudds in Bombay. 
Some people commented as to who am I to talk about the Kudds when I haven’t stayed in them.
This is sheer narrow minded, crab mentality.
Everyone is free to write on any topic.
 If Wendy Doniger can write a superb book on the Hindus without being a Hindu, we are free 
to write on any topic as we please.
Have a great Sunday.
W

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Augusto Pinto

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Sep 2, 2018, 5:16:49 AM9/2/18
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There are a lot of interesting titbits in VM’s long response tweaked to suit his arguments.

Mr. Shakespeare may have helped edit it thus: “There is nothing either good or bad but thinking makes it so.”
Augusto



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Jeanne Hromnik

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Sep 2, 2018, 5:16:49 AM9/2/18
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I don't think my father (unlike Peter Nazareth, also mentioned by Frederick) is relevant to Ben's main point: he (J M Nazareth) didn't re-locate from his homeland of Kenya, despite deciding to do so innumerable times!
I'm looking forward to reading an essay on Goan writers (or something similar) by Vicor Rangel Ribeiro that Ben mentioned on Goa Writers. Perhaps it refers, however, only to writers from the ex-Goa 'paradise' :)
In any case, it's probably worth re-posting on this site.
xx


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Braz Menezes

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Sep 2, 2018, 10:39:33 AM9/2/18
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Dear Selma, it seems so much has happened since I first joined GBC and heard of you many years ago. At that time you were publicly berating Cyprian (Yesterday in Paradise, Heroes...) for even daring to call himself a journalist. I knew him and came to his defence, as I don’t believe he was a member of the GBC at the time. 
The public impression you left, was that you loathed Cyprian. Given this, and in hindsight, shouldn’t you have been more sensitive to letting Ben Antao’s attack on Cyprian come out so blantanty under your Journal? 
You have achieved much fame (and hopefully, fortune) for your early work on Goans in East Africa and British Goans. There has been much admiration for your efforts, and nobody is trying to take that away from you, so there is no need to go into spasms of self-pity about nobody appreciating your work. 
There is much room and space for anyone to write about East African Goans. Sadly the Goan readership for that period of history may be fading. Certainly for new generations, transplanted into new lands in the 60s and thereafter, they have moved to integrate themselves into their newly acquired nationalities. They are young, trying to cope in a competitive world. There are some new writers emerging. Their writing will not be Goa-centric. 
Ben’s laments perhaps referred to those Canadian writers who once contributed to Goa Masala (2010), not being able to switch to writing about other topics, with the same dexterity that Ben did.
Most contributors to GM were not professionally trained writers, though they wrote well. All are a decade older, and are perhaps not motivated to write to a Goa Masala 2. Perhaps Ben failed to recognize this, or did not articulate the requirements adequately. Given the response, he perhaps felt inspired to write his article for you?

Perhaps by now you are wishing you and I had kept in touch more closely since those early days. 
I took my first creating writing class at the age of 69. Under the initial mentorship of our beloved Victor Rangel-Ribeiro, I have since written four books (one is a second edition of Just Matata, published by Goa 1556, 2012).
My audience is worldwide and is not restricted to Goan readers. In other words, I am competing in the hellishly competitive world of publishing. I am still writing about our lives as Goans in East Africa against an evolving history. Perhaps I will have the stamina to finish one last one in the Matata Series, before I turn 80 next year.

So Dear Selma, your comment about ‘old broken record’ indicates how much we have drifted apart.
Please focus on the your Journal. You have a potentially good thing going. Don’t pick on those who have not had the good fortune or training that you have had (or else, I will bring out that broken record again).
With best wishes for your continued success.
Braz






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Eugene Correia

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Sep 2, 2018, 12:16:56 PM9/2/18
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Oops, Imaginary Homelands is a book by Salman Rushdie.

Eugene

On Sun, Sep 2, 2018 at 12:07 PM Eugene Correia <eugene....@gmail.com> wrote:
Yes Braz, I too got a negative reaction from Selma for my review of Cyprian's Yesterday in Paradise, which, I think, was in the monthly column I write for Goa's OHeraldo. In sharp contrast, Selma thanked me in an email for my review of her book, A Railway Runs Through It, which she mailed had mailed to me. I mentioned in a a post later on and Ferderick said with his tongue-in-cheek that Selma hates Cyrpian and I hate Selma.
I don't hate anyone. In fact, in my review or write-up of Selma's first book, In the Diaspora Wilderness, I said it was good and I can say it came as fresh air over understanding of Goan presence in East Africa. I also said that Selma shows potential of writing more on the subject. She has, in fact, lived up to the potential. 
Braz described the publishing world as "hellish" and that there is space for all, particularly for conflicting views. Be it so, and one must let Cyprian's book be judged on its own merit. No point in dismissing his journalism, though one would welcome critical analysis. I have read many of the contributors' pieces in his new book,  Stars Next Door, and I made few points on Goanet on what Zulema D'Souza, national hockey player of Uganda, said in an interview to one of Goa's newspaper. By the way, Zulema is former president of the G.O.A., Toronto, and under whose presidentship the First Int'l Goan Convention in 1988. I believe there's going to be a commemoration of this event's 30th anniversary.
To further comment on this intriguing debate, I remember reading Ruth Praver Jhabvala's introductory essay, Myself in India, in her book, Out of India. I pulled the book out and re-read the essay of which the first para is, "I have lived in India for most of my adult life. My husband is Indian and so are my children. I am not, and less every year." She is a writer of, I think, Polish origin.
She further says, India reacts very strongly on people. Some loathe it, some love it, most do both. Maybe some East African Goans faced the same dilemma in their lives in the African countries. To further understand the intricate problem of the African Goan, I re-read the first essay of his book, Imaginary Homelands, the title of his book of Essays and Criticism 1981-1991. His mention of the song for the old Hindi movie, Shri 420, starring Raj Kapoor, of Mere Joota Hai Japani, the first verse translates in English as, O, my shoes are Japanese, These trousers are English, if you please, On my head a red Russian cap, But my heart's Indian for all that.
For many African Goans then and now in their new 'homelands", as much as for many Goans who have come to foreign lands from India, the heart "resides" in Goa. Though many would loathe Goa of today. Commonly said and that be applied to people of different communities, "You cannot take the Goan or Indian in me."
Ben's lament was that the East African contributors for Goa Masala did not provide their experiences of Canada. In other way, the new generation of Canadian Goans have assimilated into the mainstream society and one hoped that events like Viva Goa would bring about "reverse assimilation". My anguish is that the Goan youth of 1988, during the convention, were all for a clubhouse. But they showed no enthusiasm later on and the excuse was they cared to spend their time in mainstream clubs and not get pigeon-holed in Goan settings.
Eugene







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Eugene Correia

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Sep 2, 2018, 12:16:56 PM9/2/18
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Yes Braz, I too got a negative reaction from Selma for my review of Cyprian's Yesterday in Paradise, which, I think, was in the monthly column I write for Goa's OHeraldo. In sharp contrast, Selma thanked me in an email for my review of her book, A Railway Runs Through It, which she mailed had mailed to me. I mentioned in a a post later on and Ferderick said with his tongue-in-cheek that Selma hates Cyrpian and I hate Selma.
I don't hate anyone. In fact, in my review or write-up of Selma's first book, In the Diaspora Wilderness, I said it was good and I can say it came as fresh air over understanding of Goan presence in East Africa. I also said that Selma shows potential of writing more on the subject. She has, in fact, lived up to the potential. 
Braz described the publishing world as "hellish" and that there is space for all, particularly for conflicting views. Be it so, and one must let Cyprian's book be judged on its own merit. No point in dismissing his journalism, though one would welcome critical analysis. I have read many of the contributors' pieces in his new book,  Stars Next Door, and I made few points on Goanet on what Zulema D'Souza, national hockey player of Uganda, said in an interview to one of Goa's newspaper. By the way, Zulema is former president of the G.O.A., Toronto, and under whose presidentship the First Int'l Goan Convention in 1988. I believe there's going to be a commemoration of this event's 30th anniversary.
To further comment on this intriguing debate, I remember reading Ruth Praver Jhabvala's introductory essay, Myself in India, in her book, Out of India. I pulled the book out and re-read the essay of which the first para is, "I have lived in India for most of my adult life. My husband is Indian and so are my children. I am not, and less every year." She is a writer of, I think, Polish origin.
She further says, India reacts very strongly on people. Some loathe it, some love it, most do both. Maybe some East African Goans faced the same dilemma in their lives in the African countries. To further understand the intricate problem of the African Goan, I re-read the first essay of his book, Imaginary Homelands, the title of his book of Essays and Criticism 1981-1991. His mention of the song for the old Hindi movie, Shri 420, starring Raj Kapoor, of Mere Joota Hai Japani, the first verse translates in English as, O, my shoes are Japanese, These trousers are English, if you please, On my head a red Russian cap, But my heart's Indian for all that.
For many African Goans then and now in their new 'homelands", as much as for many Goans who have come to foreign lands from India, the heart "resides" in Goa. Though many would loathe Goa of today. Commonly said and that be applied to people of different communities, "You cannot take the Goan or Indian in me."
Ben's lament was that the East African contributors for Goa Masala did not provide their experiences of Canada. In other way, the new generation of Canadian Goans have assimilated into the mainstream society and one hoped that events like Viva Goa would bring about "reverse assimilation". My anguish is that the Goan youth of 1988, during the convention, were all for a clubhouse. But they showed no enthusiasm later on and the excuse was they cared to spend their time in mainstream clubs and not get pigeon-holed in Goan settings.
Eugene







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Wendell Rodricks

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Sep 2, 2018, 12:16:56 PM9/2/18
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Dear Braz,
Not knowing the history, your point is well taken
W

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Francis Rodrigues

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Sep 2, 2018, 1:00:36 PM9/2/18
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Cheap commentary is not History. Research is two years on the ground, 

not a two-day flying visit. This snide JRLJ article article was promulgated in 

pettiness and vengeance. 'If you sow the wind you will reap the whirlwind'.


https://cyprianfernandes.blogspot.com/2012/09/in-defence-of-east-african-goan-dodderer.html


FR

Eugene Correia

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Sep 3, 2018, 1:34:56 AM9/3/18
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Just remembered that Selma once remarked in an tone that dhe would like to det up a journalism school in my honour. Obviously, she was ticked off by what I wrote. I wish she can do me the honour now as she has done to her father by setting up the JRLJ. I admire a fire-eater.

Eugene


Eugene Correia

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Sep 3, 2018, 1:34:56 AM9/3/18
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I return again to the Goa Masala thing, as I need a clarification is required. Ben has said that he and Rudi decided on the second issue Goa Masala 2 but it was shelved. I had asked earlier if the Goa Masala was a "joint venture" between 55 Plus and A Plus Publishing, but no answer has been forthcoming. The name of 55 Plus is missing. Besides, the 55 Plus has a statement from Norman da Costa why the Goa Masala 2 was shelved. It's also mentioned that Norman and Rudi were the editors. Isn't it confusing?
Will either Ben, Rudi or Norman clarify?

Eugene

On Sun, Sep 2, 2018 at 1:49 PM Eugene Correia <eugene....@gmail.com> wrote:
Just happened to visit Cyprian Fernandes' website, and I read Selma's reply, "Dear Mr. Raymond. You have a right to your opinion. That Mr. Cyprian Ferandes is a journalist is also a matter of opinion Selma Carvalho."

What a factitious woman. If she thinks Cyprian is no journalist, I like to know if Selma thinks Ben Antao and myself are journalists? Mind you, Cyprian has spent a lifetime in journalism and it doesn't need Selma's approval or certification to call him a journalist. He was one and will remain one. 
Since I can also have an opinion, do I think Selma is a historian in the academic sense? May I know where  the "MBA" came from? As for writing East African history, does she have the background and qualifications of Stella Mascarenhas-Keyes or Teresa Albuquerque?
The Canadian writer late Ladis da Silva has written on Zanzibar and when I asked Prof. Peter Nazareth on his review of the book he had said it was "historical fiction." Ladis also wrote a booklet on the Americanization of Goans.
Thanks to some East African Goans, including Mervyn Maciel and Eddie Fernandes, for having providing some guiding light to Selma's forays into the history of East African Goans. 
Will the JRLJ confer the title of "honourary historian" on Selma - by herself on herself. Amen.

Eugene


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Eugene Correia

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Sep 3, 2018, 1:34:56 AM9/3/18
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Just happened to visit Cyprian Fernandes' website, and I read Selma's reply, "Dear Mr. Raymond. You have a right to your opinion. That Mr. Cyprian Ferandes is a journalist is also a matter of opinion Selma Carvalho."

What a factitious woman. If she thinks Cyprian is no journalist, I like to know if Selma thinks Ben Antao and myself are journalists? Mind you, Cyprian has spent a lifetime in journalism and it doesn't need Selma's approval or certification to call him a journalist. He was one and will remain one. 
Since I can also have an opinion, do I think Selma is a historian in the academic sense? May I know where  the "MBA" came from? As for writing East African history, does she have the background and qualifications of Stella Mascarenhas-Keyes or Teresa Albuquerque?
The Canadian writer late Ladis da Silva has written on Zanzibar and when I asked Prof. Peter Nazareth on his review of the book he had said it was "historical fiction." Ladis also wrote a booklet on the Americanization of Goans.
Thanks to some East African Goans, including Mervyn Maciel and Eddie Fernandes, for having providing some guiding light to Selma's forays into the history of East African Goans. 
Will the JRLJ confer the title of "honourary historian" on Selma - by herself on herself. Amen.

Eugene


On Sun, Sep 2, 2018 at 1:00 PM Francis Rodrigues <geem...@gmail.com> wrote:

Cliff Pereira

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Sep 3, 2018, 1:34:56 AM9/3/18
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Dear GBC followers (and spectators),

We must remember that people, whether in their perceived homeland or new land, represent individuals with differing experiences over different times and places. There must be some acknowledgment that an individuals experience is real for that individual, as are memories that those experiences later evolve into. 

I certainly do not believe that only members of a group can write about that group. In fact the view from beyond the group can be refreshing and often quite different from the inside perception. However, I do believe that some respect be given to individual viewpoints. I also have no training as a journalist or author, which is why I shy away from writing books despite the calls from various areas. I prefer to stick to what I do best, research, conference papers and lectures. But even here these skills are built upon by experience, challenges and necessities. I am sure many people on this forum can empathise with this.

One issue that I would like to bring to fore, for it underlies many of the postings, is that there are two polarised views of what constitutes a Goan and a person of Goan origin. Why polarised? Frequently, I am described as an Indian, Goan, Desa, or even disparagingly as a Pxxi, Wxx and even a Nxxxr. To be fair, like many people of Goan origin in the US, Canada, Australia, the UK and Portugal, none of these terms come close to describing how I think of myself. Yes I am of Goan origin, but so far removed (3rd generation) and by such a circuitus route of treble migrations that my origin is not a priority consideration in my daily life within a cosmopolitan and diverse world. 

I have of course explained almost a decade ago in an interview by Frederick Noronha and more recently in Selma JRJ how I feel about this. It seems that there are at least three "camps" of thinking. One is "born and bred" in the Goa of the last 40 years and is quite rightly, embedded in the evolving culture of Goa, who see the diaspora as an extension of Goa. They are not wrong. To think that diaspora sees itself in the same light as a Goan from Goa is also wrong and is an expectation. The Jews of the diaspora are not all Zionists, if they were they would be in Israel. Africans and African-Americans are not culturally alike at all, hundreds of years of different experiences separate them. Remember that even here in Hong Kong Goans, people of Goan origin have been here since 1840. Perhaps these expectations are grown out of the (fast disappearing) village culture in Goa.

There is another group who were born mainly in East Africa, who saw themselves as Goan both by imposition (of the British who recognised their Portuguese citizenship) and by self isolation in a racially and caste-diverse culture, that also separated them from other South Asians. Those (the majority) of these people left East Africa and had to reconstruct their identity in new lands. Club culture, village feasts and annual reunions sustained their self worth in an alien and often hostile setting. Cheap and direct flights to Goa help to not just continue, but often re-attach their ties to Goa, filling an identity space that had been lost in East Africa. 

But for their children (the third group), Goa is but a distant place, romanticised by their parents and for which the modern setting actually bears little affinity to the handed down romantic notions. No guess which group I fall into! My Goan origin has absolutely no bearing on my life in New York, Toronto, Vancouver or here in Hong Kong. It offers me no benefit in settling-in and no privilege to the Indian or Lusitanian Clubs.  

We have to accept that these three groups, and there are more variations on this themes, if we include the Goans of Pakistan, Bombay and Southern Africa, have less in common with every passing day. It is therefore hardly surprising that we have different perspectives! Thankfully people are writing about them and most do a better job then I could. But all must be praised. Consider that writings from "new spaces" may emerge. Will these reflect Goa, East Africa, or will they be embedded in cosmopolitan London, Toronto and Sydney. 
From: goa-bo...@googlegroups.com <goa-bo...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Wendell Rodricks <wendell...@gmail.com>
Sent: September 2, 2018 4:25 PM
To: goa-bo...@googlegroups.com
Cc: Braz Menezes
Subject: Re: [GOABOOKCLUB] The Literary Maladies of Diaspora Goans by Ben Antao
 

Eugene Correia

unread,
Sep 3, 2018, 1:34:56 AM9/3/18
to The Goa Book Club
Though not directly relating to the above subject but rather to the issue of Goan Diaspora, I could not understand the meaning of the heading, Goa's misunderstood, unwanted prodigal sons and daughters, to his column in today's Navhind Times.
Was it on those who returned back to Goa from their adopted abodes abroad or in other Indian cities? In other words, they are like the Biblical "prodigal son"? Fred was birn in Brazil and hisfamily mived to Goa, and therefore it was reverse migration, a prodigal family returnung home. The column delves on the Goan diaspora which the author says are "divided and fractured".
I am also at a loss to understand where there is a "pecking order among the various Goan expat communities." The problems of the NRI office to fulfill its mandate is for the MLAs or the local media to take up. Also the issue of Chair of Diaspora Studies at Goa University? Better ask ex-NRI chief, Eduardo Faleiro
Fred writes, "Earlier Goan cultural hubs that existed outside Goa in Dhobitalao or Nairobi, Uganda, Entebbe or Dar-es-Salaam are now scattered over many places." Could the writer name one such hub in Dhobitalao? Entebbe is in Uganda.
I, for one, don't know if I would be welcomed back in Goa if I return as a "prodigal son". I feel all expat sons and daughters would love to cheered and made to feel at home whenever they give up their foreign homelands.

Eugene

Braz Menezes

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Sep 3, 2018, 5:30:32 AM9/3/18
to goa-bo...@googlegroups.com
Thank you Cliff for pouring the calming oil of your wisdom on these troubled waters. Perhaps calm will return. Signing off now. Braz Menezes. 

On Mon, Sep 3, 2018 at 1:34 AM Eugene Correia <eugene....@gmail.com> wrote:
Just remembered that Selma once remarked in an tone that dhe would like to det up a journalism school in my honour.  Obviously, she was ticked off by what I wrote. I wish she can do me the honour now as she has done to her father by setting up the JRLJ. I admire a fire-eater.

Eugene


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