install.rst

[Waldek Hebisch]

Part about dependencies of documentation build does not mention
Imagemagick and 'convert' issue, but this is needed for successful
build of the book.
--
Waldek Hebisch

[Grégory Vanuxem]

Hello,

Some suggestions and personal (devil's advocate) thoughts expressed as a list.

(comments are welcome of course). 

Since a release is on the horizon,

-

First the install.rst file mentioned in another thread

(https://www.math.uni.wroc.pl/~hebisch/fricas/install.rst)

is totally source (Git) oriented. It is more a build and install file rather than an install file.

I think the user should be able to know where to find the binary files and

how to install it. It belongs to an install file to me.

(New) user should be able to quickly try FriCAS if he just wants to test it for example.

I did that a lot for computer software when I was young , now I do that for iOS or Android

applications. Only commentaries do not really help me intrinsically.

And often I quickly delete the application if it does not fit my needs.

So how about adding to the FriCAS web site a "Getting Started" like page?

Like this one for example: https://www.sbcl.org/getting.html

From my point of view, the Internet is highly time consuming,

moreover now with the RGPD and cookies related reglementations

(this is not related here), so helping stuff is always appreciated.

-

What about updating the FriCAS website which mention in

https://fricas.github.io/download.html    FriCAS (1.3.6)

-

Personal though again, when I download a binary or a source tarball

I sometimes forget to create a dedicated directory in my Tmp directory

and I always fear when I unpack the tarball this creates several directories

like bin/ doc/ share/ lib/ etc. When this happens I fulminate. For the FriCAS binaries

it is not really a problem since only a usr/ directory is created and its local/ tree in it.

I can know that since this is explained in Notes-1.3.8.txt in the SourceForge download page though. See below about this. 

Personally I prefer when I unpack a tarball, say fricas-1.3.8-amd64.tar.bz2, to

obtain a directory named fricas-1.3.8-amd64 with the usr/ directory in it. That way I can, if

necessary, just read/edit a file for example. See below about this.

-

The binary release tarball is just a usr/ directory, what about adding a simple

README file and an install.sh file like this one for example:

https://github.com/sbcl/sbcl/blob/master/install.sh

It's a SBCL example again but there are other examples on the Internet. 

The README file can quickly explain the use of the install.sh file.

That would allow users to have different options to install FriCAS.

The end user may want to install FriCAS in the $HOME/.local directory

as it's usual now.

-

About the download page from the FriCAS website at SourceForge, there is

a Notes-1.3.8.txt that explains the purpose of each file available for download

and gives a link to http://fricas.sourceforge.net/doc/INSTALL-bin.txt which explains

the installation instruction for the binary tarball.

But the Notes-1.3.8.txt from the download page is not readable as is. Personally

I had to download it and open it in a file manager. So, again, I think,

a Getting started guide makes sense to quickly give minimal informations.

The INSTALL-bin.txt is readable with the browser though.

-

What about uniformizing the FriCAS web pages from sourceforge.net and from

fricas.github.io . The latter comes from Wikipedia, the former from my search engine.

That's all I'm thinking of.

Now, I must say: first do not take this mail as personal criticism or criticize to criticize,

it is just to give some thoughts. In fact, personally, I use Git and build softwares

that imports to me. That way if I need access to the source code I have it under the hand

with eventually IntelliSense, code browsing etc. This mail is just some ideas for _quick_

access to FriCAS without spending too much time understanding how to install/use it.

And if some of what is stated here already exists I apologize in advance for what I am not aware of.

And, last but not least, I must say, yes I am a relatively impatient guy :)

Regards,

__

Greg

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[Waldek Hebisch]

On Wed, Jun 28, 2023 at 02:56:43PM +0200, Grégory Vanuxem wrote:
> -
> First the install.rst file mentioned in another thread
> (https://www.math.uni.wroc.pl/~hebisch/fricas/install.rst)
> is totally source (Git) oriented. It is more a build and install file
> rather than an install file.

Yes, that is the intent: install.rst is included as part of source
distribution. Installation from binary distribution is covered
by separate file INSTALL-bin.txt, available at:

http://fricas.sourceforge.net/doc/INSTALL-bin.txt

> I think the user should be able to know where to find the binary files and
> how to install it. It belongs to an install file to me.
>
> (New) user should be able to quickly try FriCAS if he just wants to test it
> for example.
> I did that a lot for computer software when I was young , now I do that for
> iOS or Android
> applications. Only commentaries do not really help me intrinsically.
> And often I quickly delete the application if it does not fit my needs.
>
> So how about adding to the FriCAS web site a "Getting Started" like page?
> Like this one for example: https://www.sbcl.org/getting.html
> >From my point of view, the Internet is highly time consuming,
> moreover now with the RGPD and cookies related reglementations
> (this is not related here), so helping stuff is always appreciated.
>
> -
> What about updating the FriCAS website which mention in
> https://fricas.github.io/download.html FriCAS (1.3.6)

Yes, that should be updated. For each release I update Sourceforge
pages. This page was created by Ralf and I expected him to update it.

> Personal though again, when I download a binary or a source tarball
> I sometimes forget to create a dedicated directory in my Tmp directory
> and I always fear when I unpack the tarball this creates several directories
> like bin/ doc/ share/ lib/ etc. When this happens I fulminate. For the
> FriCAS binaries
> it is not really a problem since only a usr/ directory is created and its
> local/ tree in it.
> I can know that since this is explained in Notes-1.3.8.txt in the
> SourceForge download page though. See below about this.
>
> Personally I prefer when I unpack a tarball, say
> fricas-1.3.8-amd64.tar.bz2, to
> obtain a directory named fricas-1.3.8-amd64 with the usr/ directory in it.
> That way I can, if
> necessary, just read/edit a file for example. See below about this.
>
> -
> The binary release tarball is just a usr/ directory, what about adding a
> simple
> README file and an install.sh file like this one for example:
> https://github.com/sbcl/sbcl/blob/master/install.sh
> It's a SBCL example again but there are other examples on the Internet.
> The README file can quickly explain the use of the install.sh file.
> That would allow users to have different options to install FriCAS.
> The end user may want to install FriCAS in the $HOME/.local directory
> as it's usual now.

Well, extra files would defeat possibity of unpacking from the
filesystem root (for install to /usr/local). Note that unpacking
binary tarbal from filesystem root gives the same layout as 'install'
target from source distribution.

If somebody wants different layout, that can be done "by hand"
using few commands (this is explaned in INSTALL-bin.txt).
In principle this can be easily automated.

> About the download page from the FriCAS website at SourceForge, there is
> a Notes-1.3.8.txt that explains the purpose of each file available for
> download
> and gives a link to http://fricas.sourceforge.net/doc/INSTALL-bin.txt which
> explains
> the installation instruction for the binary tarball.
> But the Notes-1.3.8.txt from the download page is not readable as is.
> Personally I had to download it and open it in a file manager.

Well, that is Sourceforge misfeature. We probably should
add link to INSTALL-bin.txt on Sourceforge download page.
On Github link to INSTALL-bin.txt appears on release page.

> So, again, I think,
> a Getting started guide makes sense to quickly give minimal informations.
> The INSTALL-bin.txt is readable with the browser though.
>
> -
> What about uniformizing the FriCAS web pages from sourceforge.net and from

> fricas.github.io <https://fricas.github.io/download.html> . The latter

> comes from Wikipedia, the former from my search engine.

Well, since Github works differently than Sourceforge there are some
unavoidable differences. In particular, one of goals of download
page that I wrote for Sourceforge was to skip various junk and
intermediate pages and give direct links to download files
on Sourceforge. Naturally, Github page should link to files
on Github.

--
Waldek Hebisch

[Grégory Vanuxem]

Le jeu. 29 juin 2023, 02:00, Waldek Hebisch <de...@fricas.math.uni.wroc.pl> a écrit :

On Wed, Jun 28, 2023 at 02:56:43PM +0200, Grégory Vanuxem wrote:
> -
> First the install.rst file mentioned in another thread
> (https://www.math.uni.wroc.pl/~hebisch/fricas/install.rst)
> is totally source (Git) oriented. It is more a build and install file
> rather than an install file.

Yes, that is the intent: install.rst is included as part of source
distribution.  Installation from binary distribution is covered
by separate file INSTALL-bin.txt, available at:

http://fricas.sourceforge.net/doc/INSTALL-bin.txt

Ok, I better understand. 

> I think the user should be able to know where to find the binary files and
> how to install it. It belongs to an install file to me.
>
> (New) user should be able to quickly try FriCAS if he just wants to test it
> for example.
> I did that a lot for computer software when I was young , now I do that for
> iOS or Android
> applications. Only commentaries do not really help me intrinsically.
> And often I quickly delete the application if it does not fit my needs.
>
> So how about adding to the FriCAS web site a "Getting Started" like page?
> Like this one for example: https://www.sbcl.org/getting.html
> >From my point of view, the Internet is highly time consuming,
> moreover now with the RGPD and cookies related reglementations
> (this is not related here), so helping stuff is always appreciated.
>
> -
> What about updating the FriCAS website which mention in
> https://fricas.github.io/download.html    FriCAS (1.3.6)

Yes, that should be updated.  For each release I update Sourceforge
pages.  This page was created by Ralf and I expected him to update it.

I could try to help if necessary. For reorganization for example. My English is not as good as I would like. 

Yes, I noticed that. After, it's a matter of taste. Personally, I prefer to do this by hand.

If somebody wants different layout, that can be done "by hand"
using few commands (this is explaned in INSTALL-bin.txt).
In principle this can be easily automated.

That could be a good thing I think. I will look at this, when time permits since it's not a zero day stuff :) 

> About the download page from the FriCAS website at SourceForge, there is
> a Notes-1.3.8.txt that explains the purpose of each file available for
> download
> and gives a link to http://fricas.sourceforge.net/doc/INSTALL-bin.txt which
> explains
> the installation instruction for the binary tarball.
> But the Notes-1.3.8.txt from the download page is not readable as is.
> Personally I had to download it and open it in a file manager.

Well, that is Sourceforge misfeature.  We probably should
add link to INSTALL-bin.txt on Sourceforge download page.
On Github link to INSTALL-bin.txt appears on release page.

I agree. That would be handy to have on the two sites browser read access to these two files (INSTALL-bin.txt and Notes-1.3.x.txt).

__

Greg

> So, again, I think,
> a Getting started guide makes sense to quickly give minimal informations.
> The INSTALL-bin.txt is readable with the browser though.
>
> -
> What about uniformizing the FriCAS web pages from sourceforge.net and from
> fricas.github.io <https://fricas.github.io/download.html> . The latter
> comes from Wikipedia, the former from my search engine.

Well, since Github works differently than Sourceforge there are some
unavoidable differences.  In particular, one of goals of download
page that I wrote for Sourceforge was to skip various junk and
intermediate pages and give direct links to download files
on Sourceforge.  Naturally, Github page should link to files
on Github.

--
                              Waldek Hebisch

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