The Supreme Court and the Electoral College

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John Clark

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Jun 29, 2022, 7:56:21 AM6/29/22
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So, the Supreme Court decided the constitution, which was written more than a century before women had the right to vote, does NOT give the federal government the power to grant women autonomy over their own bodies, BUT, they claim, the constitution DOES guarantee state governments have the power to deny individual women that right that they'd had for the last 50 years. In their dissenting court decision Justices Stephen Breyer, Sonia Sotomayor and Elena Kagan wrote: 

"Never before had the court rescinded an individual right and left it up to the states whether to respect what had once been anchored in the Constitution. After today young women will come of age with fewer rights than their mothers and grandmothers had. The majority’s refusal even to consider the life-altering consequences of reversing Roe and Casey is a stunning indictment of its decision. The majority has overruled Roe and Casey for one and only one reason: because it has always despised them, and now it has the votes to discard them. The majority thereby substitutes a rule by judges for the rule of law.”

It's very hard to believe anybody who calls himself a "libertarian" would agree with this court decision, but the fact is many, perhaps most, do. And that illustrates why I no longer feel comfortable calling myself a libertarian. But bad as it is, considering our screwy Electoral College system a crazy decision like this is not the slightest bit surprising. Donald Trump appointed 3 of the 6 who made this decision and all 6 were appointed by Anti-democratic presidents who ran on political party platforms that vowed they would appoint judges that would overturn Roe versus Wade. And 6 of the 9 judges on the Supreme Court were appointed by Anti-democratic presidents even though Democrats won the popular vote in 7 of the last 8 presidential elections. In addition to this most recent court decision we can thank the Electoral College for George W. Bush, the Iraq War, phantom "weapons of mass destruction", and thousands of American war dead. We can also thank the Electoral College for Donald Trump, a stunningly inept Covid response, and hundreds of thousands of unnecessary American deaths.  And oh I almost forgot, we can also thank the Electoral College for a failed coup d'état attempt.

As I said, none of this is surprising, but what is surprising is that those six Anti-democratic judges still called themselves "conservatives". I always thought the general definition of being "conservative " meant you wanted to keep doing things pretty much the same way things have always been done, but those six Anti-democratic judges decreed there will be a radical change in the way we've dealt with abortions for the last half century and strongly hinted they may criminalize homosexuality and even birth control in the near future. And yet in spite of all this many, perhaps most, who call themselves "libertarians" are still going to vote for Trump in 2014. Go figure. 

 John K Clark    See what's on my new list at  Extropolis
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Brent Meeker

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Jun 29, 2022, 2:46:55 PM6/29/22
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On 6/29/2022 4:55 AM, John Clark wrote:
In their dissenting court decision Justices Stephen Breyer, Sonia Sotomayor and Elena Kagan wrote: 

"Never before had the court rescinded an individual right and left it up to the states whether to respect what had once been anchored in the Constitution. After today young women will come of age with fewer rights than their mothers and grandmothers had. The majority’s refusal even to consider the life-altering consequences of reversing Roe and Casey is a stunning indictment of its decision. The majority has overruled Roe and Casey for one and only one reason: because it has always despised them, and now it has the votes to discard them. The majority thereby substitutes a rule by judges for the rule of law.”

It's very hard to believe anybody who calls himself a "libertarian" would agree with this court decision, but the fact is many, perhaps most, do.

Really?  I know a couple of libertarians, including a guy who used to be chairman of the Republican Libertarian Caucus, they're 100% for abortion as an individual right.

Brent

John Clark

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Jun 29, 2022, 2:56:09 PM6/29/22
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On Wed, Jun 29, 2022 at 2:46 PM Brent Meeker <meeke...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Really?  I know a couple of libertarians, including a guy who used to be chairman of the Republican Libertarian Caucus, they're 100% for abortion as an individual right.

Sadly that has not been my experience, I know many who called them selves "libertarians" that are Trump supporters despite the fact that Trump is the most anti-libertarian president in American history, don't ask me why. But maybe you just hang around a better class of libertarians than I do.

 John K Clark    See what's on my new list at  Extropolis
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Brent Meeker

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Jun 29, 2022, 5:24:41 PM6/29/22
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Apparently.  Neither of my libertarian friends ever supported Trump.  One is an anarcho-libertarian lawyer who's big on all personal freedom including drugs, abortion, prostitution, anti-war,...  The other, the Republican, is in favor of open borders (but not citizenship) eliminating all regulation of doctors and medical treatment and considers taxes only justified for foreign defense.  He was a political activist who helped get California to adopt a non-partisan citizens committee for redistricting.  I did some mathematical analysis supporting him.

Brent
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spudb...@aol.com

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Jun 29, 2022, 8:26:39 PM6/29/22
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As many democrats deride, most of the Libertarians are just republicans who don't want to pay taxes. I concur with this assessment and also understand why, because much of the democratic policies only seek to reward their own voting base at the expense of the rest of the country.  What is often quoted from John Adams, "We are a nation of laws, not men", I'd differ with that statement and say, we are a nation governed by the rule of lawyers who become politicians. To win, these lawyers take campaign donations from the richest people. 


On Abortion itself, for a bunch of science fans we ain't too smart in innovation. At this point, we could do fetus transfer to an incubator, instead of resolving things by either religion or ideology, we go technology. Make abortion into something else.



I mean Planned Parenthood could switch biz models and perform life saving to adoption. If not adoption, then, yeah, foster homes, or yeah, even orphanages. Seems a better path for humanity than sticking to abortion, ethically speaking. 

On changing the way election wins get decided, cuts to the question, are we even a nation state anymore, because name one thing we agree on? If not John, why should we obey your guys ideology of open borders, with the immigrants of course being  future (D) party voters, whether legal or not? This is a thing with the (D) party-

Got struck down by Judges again. Which cuts to your lament on elections and judges and...






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spudb...@aol.com

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Jun 29, 2022, 8:35:32 PM6/29/22
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I am suspecting that it is one of my Team who just doesn't want to pay taxes and doesn't care about things unless affected personally? I don't blame the guy, but my thing is investing the citizens cash into R&D so as to have an economic and societal payoff at the end of research and once the tech hits production. This'd be my method for all problems. Call this a fetish. 

We should solve abortion via artificial wombs (as an industry!) and call it a womb with a view. This proposal will piss off both Right to Life & Feminists because its a solution that doesn't render anyone power, which is what is behind the "faith" of each side. 

In this fashion I know I have done right. and I close with, Chow Mein!

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spudb...@aol.com

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Jun 29, 2022, 9:48:39 PM6/29/22
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I am still a sort of Keynesian. But the progressive left screws things up. Basically, it breaks down to people who are socialist totalitarians(commies)  being contributed to by super rich doyens who fund the party and candidates, in an exchange of cash for influence. 

Are we any better? Well part of the agreement of John Maynard Keynes was you big businesses make the cash, and we'll distribute a part of it to ensure societal stability. Societal stability produces an environment conducive to making mo' money, mo' money, mo' money, which something many of us like. So, we're whores like the rest of you. The checks from the American Petroleum Institute cash nicely as Tom Steyer's checks do. 

Mayor Lightfoot of Chicago and Di Blasio of NYC have not followed this understanding, and thus, an increase in crime is thus feeding my Team's popularity. Crime is 2nd only to inflation as a national concern. An example of this is how the Soros family (Huge DNC contributor) finds city elections for DA's who are very sympathetic to the plight of the criminal. This has increased crimes worryingly fast! Using The Guardian as a factoid rather than assaulting you two with Fox (the horror!).  

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/jun/25/homicide-violence-against-black-women-us

and of course WaPo


If I was one of Joey's people I would advise him to announce a tough on crime thing and tell George to pipe down. But its not my place, and since I ain't dropping 500K in their laps why should they listen for even a second? 


Summary, is that simply getting pro-criminal DA's elected (an in the Party this works!) is not a wise idea. It has gotten much more people killed than otherwise, with a 'tough on crime' policy would have. 

For economics, I ponder what QC and AI will do? Will the algorithms of our dreams yield darkness or light? 

Yeah, blah bah blah....

From: John Clark <johnk...@gmail.com>
To: 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List <everyth...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Wed, Jun 29, 2022 2:55 pm
Subject: Re: The Supreme Court and the Electoral College

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Stathis Papaioannou

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Jun 29, 2022, 9:58:46 PM6/29/22
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On Thu, 30 Jun 2022 at 11:49, spudboy100 via Everything List <everyth...@googlegroups.com> wrote:
I am still a sort of Keynesian. But the progressive left screws things up. Basically, it breaks down to people who are socialist totalitarians(commies)  being contributed to by super rich doyens who fund the party and candidates, in an exchange of cash for influence. 

Are we any better? Well part of the agreement of John Maynard Keynes was you big businesses make the cash, and we'll distribute a part of it to ensure societal stability. Societal stability produces an environment conducive to making mo' money, mo' money, mo' money, which something many of us like. So, we're whores like the rest of you. The checks from the American Petroleum Institute cash nicely as Tom Steyer's checks do. 

Mayor Lightfoot of Chicago and Di Blasio of NYC have not followed this understanding, and thus, an increase in crime is thus feeding my Team's popularity. Crime is 2nd only to inflation as a national concern. An example of this is how the Soros family (Huge DNC contributor) finds city elections for DA's who are very sympathetic to the plight of the criminal. This has increased crimes worryingly fast! Using The Guardian as a factoid rather than assaulting you two with Fox (the horror!).  

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/jun/25/homicide-violence-against-black-women-us

and of course WaPo


If I was one of Joey's people I would advise him to announce a tough on crime thing and tell George to pipe down. But its not my place, and since I ain't dropping 500K in their laps why should they listen for even a second? 


Summary, is that simply getting pro-criminal DA's elected (an in the Party this works!) is not a wise idea. It has gotten much more people killed than otherwise, with a 'tough on crime' policy would have. 

For economics, I ponder what QC and AI will do? Will the algorithms of our dreams yield darkness or light? 

Yeah, blah bah blah....

The Guardian article is about domestic violence where black women are killed with guns. Getting rid of the guns is an obvious solution.

From: John Clark <johnk...@gmail.com>
To: 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List <everyth...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Wed, Jun 29, 2022 2:55 pm
Subject: Re: The Supreme Court and the Electoral College

On Wed, Jun 29, 2022 at 2:46 PM Brent Meeker <meeke...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Really?  I know a couple of libertarians, including a guy who used to be chairman of the Republican Libertarian Caucus, they're 100% for abortion as an individual right.

Sadly that has not been my experience, I know many who called them selves "libertarians" that are Trump supporters despite the fact that Trump is the most anti-libertarian president in American history, don't ask me why. But maybe you just hang around a better class of libertarians than I do.

 John K Clark    See what's on my new list at  Extropolis
8c1




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Stathis Papaioannou

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Jun 29, 2022, 10:20:43 PM6/29/22
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It could work Stathis, but we are now a woefully separated society. Not only this, but with open borders the Cartels have smuggled not only people, but Chinese fentanyl, and yes guns and rifles and ammo back and forth. The weapons get field-striped and shipped into the US, or, conversely back into Mexico. This is now an industry and an industry only partially interfered with by the government, as policy. Also, in the Guardian article it doesn't acknowledge the demand for firearms in the hood, nor, the US, where policies favor the thug. Get caught, get released because, you had a bad life! 

The Guardian article is about domestic violence where black women are killed with guns. Getting rid of the guns is an obvious solution.



John Clark

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Jun 30, 2022, 10:29:26 AM6/30/22
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On Wed, Jun 29, 2022 at 9:48 PM spudboy100 via Everything List <everyth...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

> I am still a sort of Keynesian.

You could've fooled me.
 
> But the progressive left screws things up. Basically, it breaks down to people who are socialist totalitarians(commies)  being contributed to by super rich doyens who fund the party and candidates, in an exchange of cash for influence. 

That sounds like a very good description of Donald Trump. And yes, woke progressives can be annoying but there is little danger of them staging a coup d'état or building concentration camps and stuffing people into ovens, but right wing dictators do both. Donald Trump's deepest desire is to become a right wing dictator, and on January 6, 2021 he came very close to achieving his dream. How on earth can any rational human being even talk about giving this semiliterate unstable catchup throwing steering wheel grabbing traitor the power to destroy the human race for another 4 years?!

 > Crime is 2nd only to inflation as a national concern

I know and that is totally irrational. Crime is a trivial problem compared with the possibility of nuclear war, the certain existence of non-nuclear war, pollution that kills millions of people each year, the Covid epidemic that has killed over 1 million Americans, the societal disruption that has been caused by technological advancement that will only increase, and the wealth gap that is not just growing but accelerating between 99.9% of human beings on the planet who are just rich and the dozen or so that are Super Ultra Mega Rich. Donald Trump is not Super Ultra Mega Rich although he likes to pretend he is, and if he wins the 2024 election (really wins I mean, regardless of the outcome he is certain to claim he won) then he certainly will become that rich and he will stay in power until the day he dies.  And the day after that Donald Junior will be coronated as King Donald II.

John K Clark    See what's on my new list at  Extropolis
bcl


Philip Benjamin

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Jun 30, 2022, 11:20:12 AM6/30/22
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[Philip Benjamin] 

“ ……. in American history … “ ? In what American history? The history that is deliberately NOT taught by WAMP-the-Ingrate? Under the pretext of “church-state-separation”? American history began with and for most part of known records remained as PURITAN HISTORY (which is essentially Church History). The change came with the dominance of Marxist, socialist, fascist pagan tyranny of the WAMP-the-Ingrate, primarily in the 60’s and onwards accentuated by the recent collapse of the Marxism in the Soviets and subsequent infiltration by hardcore Marxists into the Western acade-media.

      The Non-sovereign Federation of the Sovereign States is NOT an atheistic, humanistic,  libertarian or Marxist-socialist or fascist or pagan IDEA!! It is a contribution from and to a “generation” of >98.8% Protestants, <1% Roman Catholics and < 0.2% Jews, whom the Koran will identify as the “people of the Book”. In the 1700’s the one and only largely accepted AUTHORITY for human  affairs in the American Colonies was that Book. The Constitution and the general ethos it represented was a product of the historical and historic “Two Great Awakenings” First led by the prodigious Jonathan Edwards the founder of Princeton U and the Second by the President of Yale U,  for which the pagan Marxist Stalin had to “unconsciously” coin the term “American Exceptionalism” and which Nordic pagan Hitler “In 1940, Thought America Was Just "Beauty Queens, Millionaires, Stupid Records And Hollywood" (https://www.businessinsider.com/in-1940-hitler-thought-america-was-just-beauty-queens-millionaires-stupid-records-and-hollywood-2012-5).  

Definition: WAMP = Western Acade-Media Pagan (ism), a parody of WASP.

Philip Benjamin PhD MSc MA

Nonconformist to Marxist socialist fascist pagan globalism.

 

     From: everyth...@googlegroups.com <everyth...@googlegroups.com> On Behalf Of Brent Meeker
Sent: Wednesday, June 29, 2022 4:25 PM
To: everyth...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: The Supreme Court and the Electoral College

 

Apparently.  Neither of my libertarian friends ever supported Trump.  One is an anarcho-libertarian lawyer who's big on all personal freedom including drugs, abortion, prostitution, anti-war,...  The other, the Republican, is in favor of open borders (but not citizenship) eliminating all regulation of doctors and medical treatment and considers taxes only justified for foreign defense.  He was a political activist who helped get California to adopt a non-partisan citizens committee for redistricting.  I did some mathematical analysis supporting him.

Brent

On 6/29/2022 11:55 AM, John Clark wrote:

spudb...@aol.com

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Jun 30, 2022, 9:07:01 PM6/30/22
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Donny is the progressive obsession in which the fantasy is and was, another Adolf. He never was ever close to that and now just looks like (to me) like a complainer (yeah really!) who couldn't punch back too hard on his political enemies. This ain't and never was old Adolf.


No death camps, no nazism* (The BBC cracked the 'fine people on both sides edit that NBC did), no klansman at your door, just a guy who reduced unemployment enough, pre Covid, to start drawing a thin line of voters from the Blacks & Latinos exiting Right, and did mean Tweets.  You won't be running against the lad in 2024, so I suggest you gin up your material for Desantis. I suspect that by the time Joey gets done with us, a majority of voters will be saying, "Hitler=Trump, Desantis=Trump??!! "Yeah ok, now will he get us jobs?" Recession-ville, dream babies!

*Did you really think he was going to kill his daughter & grandkids for being Jews?!! By 1935 Nuremberg Laws they'd be judged as mischlinge, and not necessarily subject to the camps and theft anyways. 

For the electoral college we are as Cap'n Ahab whose harpoon lines have the captain entangled to the body of Moby Dick and in our case I do mean, dick. Thus, we the people are so ensnared, long before we were born. Actually, if we get QC and AI driving things, our situation could be more like Orson Welles finale' in Graham Greene's The 3rd Man.


Or, as Bette Davis said in All About Even, "Strap yourselves in folks, we're going to be in for a bumpy ride.  Just remember, Bad Don is not the Captain. Joey is, maybe?

-----Original Message-----
From: John Clark <johnk...@gmail.com>
To: 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List <everyth...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Thu, Jun 30, 2022 10:28 am
Subject: Re: The Supreme Court and the Electoral College

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John Clark

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Jul 1, 2022, 8:20:49 AM7/1/22
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On Thu, Jun 30, 2022 at 9:07 PM <spudb...@aol.com> wrote:

> Donny is the progressive obsession in which the fantasy is and was, another Adolf. He never was ever close to that

Not even close to that?!  You see no similarities between January 6, 2021 when Trump staged an unsuccessful coup d'état and November 9, 1923 when Hitler staged an unsuccessful coup d'éta? Hmm... now that I think about it I realize it's silly of me to be surprised by your lack of outrage concerning January 6, as you yourself have indicated in another post, irrational ideologies (sorry, I'm being redundant) are not amenable to logic.

> No death camps, no nazism

There were no Nazi death camps in 1923, you'd have to wait another decade for that, but even in 1923 anybody with half a brain should've realized that Adolf Hitler was not the sort of man you wanted to lead a powerful country. And today the stakes are even higher because today we have H-bombs.  

> *Did you really think he was going to kill his daughter & grandkids for being Jews?!!

Do you really think Trump would stop what he was doing because of moral considerations?!! If Trump thought ritual cannibalism would appeal to his base he'd give speeches in favor of ritual cannibalism, but it probably won't be Jews this time, something else will be in his crosshairs, like anybody who has ever said anything unflattering about him, or even anybody who showed a lack of enthusiasm for him. Trump has already said he  should have the right to sue anybody who says something bad about him even though he's the leader of the country. Do you really want to defend that idea, do you really wanna live in a banana republic?

I think the man has no principles except that of self-aggrandisement. Donald Trump would do ANYTHING if he believed it would bring him more power or money, if he thought Lenin and Stalin's path to power would work better for him than Hitler's then overnight Donald Trump would metamorphosize into a woke progressive, but the outcome would be just as nightmarish. 

John K Clark    See what's on my new list at  Extropolis
nop

b

spudb...@aol.com

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Jul 1, 2022, 7:29:44 PM7/1/22
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Well, before the 1923 Nazi Putsch was the Kapp Putsch of 1920 which was pure Wehrmacht. Don was already prez and needed to putsch. What he needed was more votes. Adolf does not fold his tent and Don simply landed in Fla. with claims of voting fraud, which he still must prove. His self aggrandizement is what he lives for, and the Showman's gotta show!  He won't be running in 2024 but Hillary said hell yes, which just shows us how lame our politics really is. 

Actually, what is most important is Policy and not personality, and policy is not going great right now. Joey doesn't need to quit but his policy needs to modify to ensure national survival. He's too slow to adjust. 


-----Original Message-----
From: John Clark <johnk...@gmail.com>
To: spudb...@aol.com
Cc: everyth...@googlegroups.com <everyth...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Fri, Jul 1, 2022 8:20 am
Subject: Re: The Supreme Court and the Electoral College

John Clark

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Jul 2, 2022, 8:11:27 AM7/2/22
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On Fri, Jul 1, 2022 at 7:29 PM <spudb...@aol.com> wrote:

> Well, before the 1923 Nazi Putsch was the Kapp Putsch of 1920 which was pure Wehrmacht.

What does that have to do with the price of eggs in China?  

> Don was already prez and needed to putsch. What he needed was more votes.

What Don needed was more fraud and for Mike Pence to become a traitor.  So spud have two questions for you: 

1) Would you be happy today if Mike Pence had become a traitor on January 6 2021 and Donald Trump was still president?

2) Would you be happy if Joe Biden lost the 2024 election in the electoral college and the popular vote, both by a large margin, but on January 6 2025 Kamala Harris simply declared that the election was null and void and Joe Biden would still be president for another 4 years and she would still be the vice president?

> He won't be running in 2024

I hope you're right but I don't think you are.  

> Actually, what is most important is Policy and not personality,

This is the age of the presidential nuclear button and of H-bombs, so I strongly disagree. In the first place the policy a presidential candidate runs on is seldom the policy he tries to pursue once he gets in office, and the policy he tries to pursue is seldom the one that actually gets implemented, the implemented one is almost always more convoluted and more stupid than either of the previous two. You probably think of me as an extreme left winger, certainly my former libertarian friends think so because I refused to jump on the Trump bandwagon, but I would vote for an intelligent principled conservative over a left leaning candidate who gave speeches I mostly agreed with if I judged he was unstable unprincipled untrustworthy ignorant and just plain stupid.

  John K Clark    See what's on my new list at  Extropolis
jps



nop


b

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Jul 2, 2022, 9:30:14 PM7/2/22
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To be honest, I believe the world would be happier including yourself if Orange Man had gained a 2nd term. 
1. The democratic voter and leadership would now be drooling for the win/reversal in 2022 and the regain the presidency & congress in 2024. You guys would be elated and living until that great day when America was back! 

2. Putin would not have attacked the Ukraine. Trumpo did attack the Wagner boys (Putin's mercs) in Syria in 2018. 

3. Xi and Trumpo would have either cut a deal or even better, cut all trade and infection paths, thus, enabling a US economic revival.

4. Border not opened. Which now enable both illegal immigrants, and fentanyl, and gun running both ways. 
(Note, I am no libertarian like Koch Industries, instead an economic nationalist of sorts). The UAW might like my policies? 

In any case, JC, as Bill Clinton once said: "You play the hand you get." The Biden-ideological thing is the world today.

No, no to Donny being a fierce fascist, yeah, to him being an egotistical loud mouth, but he's the one thing that all democrats agreed upon! You love the guy! He united your team in ways that no democratic party politician ever did. He's your villain, your Emanuel Goldstein to howl against. You guys are playing the Omarosa to The Donald in The Apprentice. Guaranteed, Adolf never would have tolerated an underling suing him. The poor man can't even win in court against her. Tell me he is Bond's Blofeld again, please? 
https://www.cnbc.com/2022/04/20/trump-campaign-must-pay-1point3m-to-apprentice-star-omarosa-.html

Closer to an actual Blofeld in real life is George, No thug left behind, S. & Klaus, Bugsy, Schwab of the WEF. Again, ad hominem attacks are fun in the Saul Alinsky Rules for Radicals sense of the meaning. However, its policy that decides the fates of politicians and countries. 


-----Original Message-----
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To: spudb...@aol.com
Cc: everyth...@googlegroups.com <everyth...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Sat, Jul 2, 2022 8:10 am
Subject: Re: The Supreme Court and the Electoral College

John Clark

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Jul 3, 2022, 8:16:21 AM7/3/22
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On Sat, Jul 2, 2022 at 9:30 PM <spudb...@aol.com> wrote:

>To be honest, I believe the world would be happier including yourself if Orange Man had gained a 2nd term. 

My question, which you have not answered, is would you be happy if the Biden/ Harris ticket lost by a substantial margin both in the electoral college and the popular vote in 2024 to Donald Trump but on January 6, 2025 Kamala Harris  just decreed that the election was null and void and both she and Joe Biden would remain in power for at least another 4 years and Biden strongly hinted he will run for a third term despite the fact that the Constitution forbids it. I can't really blame you for not answering my question, if I had beliefs as screwy as yours I'd be embarrassed to admit them too.

Trump Says He Will ‘Negotiate’ Third Term Because He’s ‘Entitled’ To It


> Putin would not have attacked the Ukraine.

BULLSHIT!

> Xi and Trumpo would have either cut a deal or even better, cut all trade and infection paths,

So that's you and Trump's brilliant plan for prosperity, cut all trade!!  And as I keep pointing out, under the Trump administration the USA was a net exporter of the COVID virus not an importer.

John K Clark    See what's on my new list at  Extropolis
ddy





On Fri, Jul 1, 2022 at 7:29 PM <spudb...@aol.com> wrote:

> Well, before the 1923 Nazi Putsch was the Kapp Putsch of 1920 which was pure Wehrmacht.

What does that have to do with the price of eggs in China?  

> Don was already prez and needed to putsch. What he needed was more votes.

What Don needed was more fraud and for Mike Pence to become a traitor.  So spud have two questions for you: 

1) Would you be happy today if Mike Pence had become a traitor on January 6 2021 and Donald Trump was still president?

2) Would you be happy if Joe Biden lost the 2024 election in the electoral college and the popular vote, both by a large margin, but on January 6 2025 Kamala Harris simply declared that the election was null and void and Joe Biden would still be president for another 4 years and she would still be the vice president?

> He won't be running in 2024

I hope you're right but I don't think you are.  

> Actually, what is most important is Policy and not personality,

This is the age of the presidential nuclear button and of H-bombs, so I strongly disagree. In the first place the policy a presidential candidate runs on is seldom the policy he tries to pursue once he gets in office, and the policy he tries to pursue is seldom the one that actually gets implemented, the implemented one is almost always more convoluted and more stupid than either of the previous two. You probably think of me as an extreme left winger, certainly my former libertarian friends think so because I refused to jump on the Trump bandwagon, but I would vote for an intelligent principled conservative over a left leaning candidate who gave speeches I mostly agreed with if I judged he was unstable unprincipled untrustworthy ignorant and just plain stupid.

  
jps



nop


b

spudb...@aol.com

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Jul 3, 2022, 4:43:48 PM7/3/22
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So that's your answer to Putin, Bullshit? AFTER he witnessed the Joey fiasco in July 2021 from Afghanistan? 
Disbelief and betrayal: Europe reacts to Biden’s Afghanistan ‘miscalculation’ – POLITICO

Politico is strictly one of yours, JC. 

I think the world would be safer under the Loudmouth's control. Yes. 

On China? They are a determined, organized power that is hostile to US existence. 
The author is a former Defense Sec at Georgetown University.

The super rich, are gambling that China will be non- first strike aggressors. I don't trust these boards of directors who are willing to gamble away 330 million American lives so they can make or save money, by swapping economic kisses with Comrade Xi. They buy the politicians with campaign donations and that is the system that has us. 

So, yeah, the world would be better if Trumpo were still boss. Would we have moved dem in 2022? Probably not. 2024, I am guessing would have been a repeat of "our" 2020, if only because Pence is not exactly charismatic. Maybe, Hillary would be promising free things as Joey did, including making collage loans be paid by "the others?" So that may have won her the Presidency?? 

In our worldline we have Putin unleashed, Xi testing the waters for a Pacific war, and other economist, Nassim Nicholas Taleb's Black Swans in the making. Closed borders would be a better thing in order to squeeze down on migration, including, the running of fentanyl, and firearms (field stripped) sent back and forth between US gangs and Los Cartels. So much for "gun control." Open borders means a thriving industry with this. Especially, at a time of Soros funded, pro-criminal DA's and Judges and Mayors. 

Joey liked rewarding his constituents with Covid money, so that was the first boost to inflation. He is and was the prime mover behind no drilling on public lands, literally from 1/22/2021 using the Bureau of Land Management. The Putin invasion, post Afghanistan bye bye, and we get double inflation. It ain't even his personality, its his policies. 

Moral of the story? Never clamp down on an old energy source that works, when one is not even working on a new energy source that is ;uninstalled, under developed, and not ready for the marketplace. I am speaking about EV's charging stations, solar power, wind turbines, and whatever else we got? 

It's like performing a heart transplant without a donor heart to go in. The policy is emotion produced by ideology. 

Th-Th-Th- That's all folks!
Porky Spud


-----Original Message-----

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Sent: Sun, Jul 3, 2022 8:15 am
Subject: Re: The Supreme Court and the Electoral College

John Clark

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Jul 3, 2022, 6:14:29 PM7/3/22
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On Sun, Jul 3, 2022 at 4:43 PM <spudb...@aol.com> wrote:

> So that's your answer to Putin, Bullshit?

My answer is Putin fears NATO, but Trump made no secret of his extreme hostility to it, and if he had a second term I'm sure the US would've resigned , and NATO couldn't survive the loss of its most important member. But instead under Biden NATO added 2 new members and is stronger and more united than it's been in 50 years. And I don't believe Trump would've given the Ukrainians five cents worth of military aid to defend themselves from Putin and his obscene war. 


> AFTER he witnessed the Joey fiasco in July 2021 from Afghanistan? 

And Trump yammered on and on for almost every day of his presidency about how the US should get out of Afghanistan, but it was all talk,  he never had the guts to actually do it because he knew that losing a war is always gonna be ugly and damaging politically.  And you STILL haven't answered my question, would you be happy if the Biden/Harris ticket lost by a substantial margin both in the electoral college and the popular vote in 2024 to Donald Trump but on January 6, 2025 Kamala Harris  just decreed that the election was null and void and both she and Joe Biden would remain in power for at least another 4 years and Biden strongly hinted he will run for a third term despite the fact that the Constitution forbids it.

John K Clark    See what's on my new list at  Extropolis

6bq


spudb...@aol.com

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JC, for El Trumpo, my tears have all dried and I have moved on as we all must. Trump did fight Putin's mercs in Syria in 2018, please remember. It is hard to believe that Vlad really feared NATO. He saw them as weaklings (in my opinion) and they just purchased every cubic metre of nat gas they could from him. Trumpo bitched at Fraulein Docktor Merkel who was big into Putin and she didn't have anything to say when El Donaldo complained that "Germany will just end up being a servant state of Putin."

You and I wouldn't have complained to them as harshly, but let's face it. Deutschland and the others have been just skating by, and donny thought he could squeeze them into the agreed upon share. Let me line up the news sources for a blast from past. My feeling is Trumpy wanted to keep communication open with Vlad-just in case.

Syria-

NATO-

German leadership shock at Putin.

There's a German saying, by the way, and goes, "Too smart, too late."

The Don wouldn't have done a withdrawal from Jihad land without prepping properly, leaving a ruin behind. It was utter chaos, and I feel confident, the Americans will be hearing from  the Taliban sooner or later. :-(

For the election past, for what it is worth all the revelations mean zero without cross examination and the Jan 6 show trial is invalid because of this. If Don won, and the world was tricked, he needs to present the precise evidence of this to the public. He hasn't, and I for one am not holding my breath. That courts wouldn't see the evidence is merely the same reason you are pissed at the Supreme Court Judges. In that they get to decide what is valid and invalid. "We don't have the legal justification to judge an election. Because every election after this precedent would be challenged!" This, say the lawyers in their black robes that are called judges.  

Thus, us farmers and slaves that the authors of the US Constitution viewed as being too busy to understand complex issues so we needed a republic to have smart people represent us (slaves not so much).  

For the future, I fear Vlad attacking and also Xi.Beyond this threat unless the Chinese change I don't see them bribing and killing their way to world power, not unless there is profound governmental change. America's current decline is self willed by The Party and by Wall Street because they are all betting on China and stability enough for them to make their fortunes.I would call them on this bet, whether its Fink's Blackrock or Gates and his CCP chums. 

Via Con Santis, Pax Vobiscum.


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John Clark

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Jul 4, 2022, 7:58:30 AM7/4/22
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On Mon, Jul 4, 2022 at 1:43 AM <spudb...@aol.com> wrote:

> JC, for El Trumpo, my tears have all dried and I have moved on as we all must.

I wish I could stop talking about Trump but I can't because he has not reached room temperature and I;m sure he's going to run again in 2024. And people like you are going to vote for him again even though he has proven himself to be a far worse traitor than Benedict Arnold.  
 
> Trump did fight Putin's mercs in Syria in 2018,

This is the first sentence of an article about that in the December 19 2018 issue of the New York Times:  

 "President Trump has ordered the withdrawal of 2,000 American troops from Syria, bringing a sudden end to a military campaign that largely vanquished the Islamic State but ceding a strategically vital country to Russia and Iran."

> The Don wouldn't have done a withdrawal from Jihad land without prepping properly,

Prepping properly? The US had been in Afghanistan for 20 goddamn years, how much more "prepping" do they need? 

>  It is hard to believe that Vlad really feared NATO.

Then why does Putin always make a big fuss every time a new country decides to join NATO?  I know that you like me are not a big fan of communism so consider this, NATO is the reason all of Europe didn't become communistic, it is the only reason Stalan's tanks didn't roll as far west as the Atlantic in the early 1950s, or even the late 1940s. And have things really changed all that much, Putin's Russia is smaller than the old USSR but other than that do you see any real improvement? The USSR hadn't started a war in Europe as large as Putin's Ukrainian war since 1939 when the USSR invaded Finland, which is about to become a NATO member I might add.  But Trump says "NATO is obsolete, because it was designed many, many years ago, it is obsolete and a relic of the Cold War". Trump  said the US shouldn't help Montenegro if it was attacked even though Montenegro is a NATO ally and we promised that we would, but to be fair Trump is such an ignoramus he probably didn't even know Montenegro is a NATO ally. However Trump did know Germany was part of NATO and he said  "Germany owes vast sums of money to NATO" but like most things that come out of his piehole that is a complete lie, it doesn't.
 
> El Donaldo complained that "Germany will just end up being a servant state of Putin."

That's nothing new, every president since Bill Clinton has said the same thing, if not about Putin about Russia.  

I'll conclude by asking a question I've asked many times before but you have never answered, I'm sure you're not gonna answer this time either but I'm gonna ask it anyway because it's goddamn important! Would you be happy if the Biden/Harris ticket lost by a substantial margin both in the electoral college and the popular vote in 2024 to Donald Trump but on January 6, 2025 Kamala Harris just decreed that the election was null and void and both she and Joe Biden would remain in power for at least another 4 years and Biden strongly hinted he will run for a third term despite the fact that the Constitution forbids it.

John K Clark    See what's on my new list at  Extropolis
lam

spudb...@aol.com

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Decreeing an election null and void is not the same as signing an Executive Order decreeing an election null and void and then ordering soldiers to enforce this exec order. My only concern is that were election laws violated in 2020 in enough amount to change the election outcome? Donny has had 18 months to serve the data up to the populace, and, where's the beef? 

The Syria withdrawal barely made the news, but the Afghan human made disaster was for everyone to see in the world, including Putin. Whatever the Russians wanted, they ain't getting it now from any nation in Europe because all the Russians are good at is slaughtering civilians. Don was better, then Joey, but he was lousy at picking people or immediately has a hostile attitude with those he hires, always. This is known as a character flaw. That is not how either of us would run things but we're 210 millionth in line to the Throne anyway. 


-----Original Message-----
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Sent: Mon, Jul 4, 2022 7:57 am
Subject: Re: The Supreme Court and the Electoral College

John Clark

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On Mon, Jul 4, 2022 at 3:05 PM <spudb...@aol.com> wrote:

> My only concern is that were election laws violated in 2020 in enough amount to change the election outcome? Donny has had 18 months to serve the data up to the populace, and, where's the beef? 

There was never anything that even approximated beef! Trump challenged the election results in courts more than 60 times, often by judges that he had appointed, and he lost every single one, in fact most were laughed out of court. This is consistent with the man's previous behavior, when his idiotic TV game show failed to win an Emmy Trump claimed the election was rigged. Every single time he lost a state republican primary election in 2016 Trump claimed the election was rigged. Every single time Bernie Sanders (who Trump thought he could more easily beat in the general election) lost a state Democratic  primary election in 2016 Trump claimed the election was rigged. That's why I publicly predicted even before the 2016 election that he would claim he won in 2020 regardless of the outcome of the election and that his removal from the Oval Office would be UGLY. But even I didn't predict that although he won in 2016 he would STILL claim the election was rigged, he insisted he should've won by more. Not only is he a sore loser he's a sore winner too.    

> Decreeing an election null and void is not the same as signing an Executive Order decreeing an election null and void and then ordering soldiers to enforce this exec order. 

Blah blah blah, yet again you refuse to answer my question. Donald Trump ordered Mike Pence to become a traitor to the constitution and to the nation, and to his credit Mike Pence refused to obey. So my question to you, which I have asked so many times, is would you be happy if the Biden/Harris ticket lost by a substantial margin both in the electoral college and the popular vote in 2024 to Donald Trump but on January 6, 2025 Kamala Harris just decreed that the election was null and void and both she and Joe Biden would remain in power for at least another 4 years and Biden strongly hinted he will run for a third term despite the fact that the Constitution forbids it.
John K Clark    See what's on my new list at  Extropolis
wwb


Telmo Menezes

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Am Mo, 4. Jul 2022, um 07:43, schrieb spudboy100 via Everything List:
Trumpo bitched at Fraulein Docktor Merkel who was big into Putin and she didn't have anything to say when

I guess the circus is in town but not everyone is a clown.

spudb...@aol.com

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Oh, Ok, yeah I wish Pence would've have been the tie breaker in Don's favor. The courts all ruled that they had no constitutional authority to even look at the evidence. Now all this time after Nov 2020 and Don still has not proven to The Public that he lost by dems doing voter fraud? I am a patient man, but lets see the evidence. What would you do IF he actually had the evidence that Joey was not by the standards of the electoral collage to have won?? 

To be honest, if we were both honest, what does anyone comprising American agree on anymore? I would have thought that 22 would have been a shoe in for us, but now with the supreme's changing their mind on Roe, your team may have a fighting chance?? 

On abortion, I want to do a womb with a view, and I am believing that we are there now, Artifical wombs, fetus transferals, adoptions, foster care, or failing that, orphanages. "The sun will come out tomorrow, bet your bottom dollar they'll be sun!" I mean we're the science guys. I try to resolve touchy theological issues, by science even. 

Joey did screw up bigtime as most all world leaders did on energy. Now with Vlad on our backs, its a lot worse. Yeah, JC, that MSR Th232-U233 thing needs a budget for sure. Did Don do it? Somewhat. Will Joey do it? See, that is the self imposed bind your team is in, being ideological. 
  


-----Original Message-----
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Sent: Mon, Jul 4, 2022 3:56 pm
Subject: Re: The Supreme Court and the Electoral College

John Clark

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Jul 5, 2022, 3:18:35 PM7/5/22
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On Tue, Jul 5, 2022 at 2:45 PM <spudb...@aol.com> wrote:

> Oh, Ok, yeah I wish Pence would've have been the tie breaker in Don's favor.

What on earth are you talking about?! That is not what Trump asked Pence to do because there was no tie to break, Trump lost overwhelmingly both in the electoral college and in the popular vote. And even if there was a tie in the electoral college (and there wasn't or anything even close to it) the constitution does not give the vice president the right to break that tie, in that case the decision would be made by the House of representatives.

What Trump ordered Pence to do is to become a traitor and betray the oath he took to defend the Constitution. And so, although I'm sure you'll remain consistent and dodge the question once more nevertheless I'll ask my question for the... I'm not sure if it's the sixth or seventh time I've lost count: Would you be happy if the Biden/Harris ticket lost by a substantial margin both in the electoral college and the popular vote in 2024 to Donald Trump but on January 6, 2025 Kamala Harris just decreed that the election was null and void and both she and Joe Biden would remain in power for at least another 4 years and Biden strongly hinted he will run for a third term despite the fact that the Constitution forbids it.

> To be honest, if we were both honest, what does anyone comprising American agree on anymore?

Apparently nothing. I don't like dictatorships and would be unhappy if the country I lived in turned into a Banana Republic, but apparently you disagree and would be fine with that provided the dictator had "good comic timing". 

> On abortion, I want to do a womb with a view,

If your name "SpudBOY" is accurate then you don't have a womb and I see no reason why those that do have one should be required by law to take your opinions of the matter into account when they decide what to do with their own personal reproductive machinery.

John K Clark    See what's on my new list at  Extropolis
dhw

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Ah, to have an opinion that has impact on the behavior of lawmakers, one must be loaded.
See, JC, its an oligarchy because the political class relies on billionaire's money to survive. 
 
On your question. I am good with anything as long as its not nuclear war. So if you need a yes or a no, I will go with yes. Now enjoy your save the earth and save Vlad gas price. Not so bad here. Only 4.97 woo hoo!


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Subject: Re: The Supreme Court and the Electoral College

John Clark

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On Wed, Jul 6, 2022 at 2:28 PM <spudb...@aol.com> wrote:

 
 > So if you need a yes or a no, I will go with yes. 

It took seven tries but I finally got a straight answer out of you, thank you. I will remind you on January 6, 2025 that you hope Kamala Harris just nullifies the 2024 election if Joe Biden and she lost to Donald Trump in both the popular vote and the electoral college vote by a substantial margin and she simply declares that the election is null and void and Joe Biden and herself will remain in power for another four years and, because they and no Democrat that they like needs to endure all the fuss and bother of another election ever again, probably much much longer.
John K Clark    See what's on my new list at  Extropolis
hak





Philip Benjamin

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Jul 7, 2022, 1:24:24 PM7/7/22
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[Philip Benjamin]

  WAMP-the-Ingrate did not and could not exist in the 1700’s! Today’s WAMP-the-Ingrate will certainly have New York and California (two lawless BIG Marxist mostly pagan states with un-awakened consciousnesses) decide who the POTUS should be. Since most citizens (rather residents) of US wouldn’t care less as to who or what should rule them, hoe does it matter anyway?

Philip Benjamin

 

From: everyth...@googlegroups.com <everyth...@googlegroups.com> On Behalf Of John Clark
Sent: Monday, July 4, 2022 6:58 AM  
Cc: everyth...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: The Supreme Court and the Electoral College

 

.

John Clark

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Jul 7, 2022, 2:46:17 PM7/7/22
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On Thu, Jul 7, 2022 at 1:24 PM Philip Benjamin <medin...@hotmail.com> wrote:

>  WAMP-the-Ingrate did not and could not exist in the 1700’s! Today’s WAMP-the-Ingrate will certainly have New York and California (two lawless BIG Marxist mostly pagan [...]


Wow you're doing better, you were able to write 28 whole words before you felt obligated to use the word "pagan"!  It would be science-fiction to imagine you could ever write an entire post without using it but pretty soon you may be able to write an entire sentence without using "pagan", but I'm curious, does that word have any meeting for you other than someone who believes in a very slightly different type of religious idiocy than the type of religious idiocy you believe in? And by the way, if you put a gun to my head I couldn't tell you who or what "WAMP-the-Ingrate" is.

John K Clark    See what's on my new list at  Extropolis
8bc


 

Lawrence Crowell

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Jul 7, 2022, 4:39:11 PM7/7/22
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I too have wondered who this ingrate or WAMP-the-ingrate is. Ben's writing is utterly incoherent and borderline unintelligible. 

LC

spudb...@aol.com

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It wasn't a 7 year thing because I have always been honest with my answers. It is the Democrat Party Leadership that has walked out on a Republic, though back in the 50's we may have led the way via "The Military Industrial Complex," that IKE warned us all about in his bye-bye speech in 1961. This, after building up the Military Industrial Complex in order to battle the CCCP. 

For today JC, we're heading maybe for a split , but this is uncertain. For me, under a democrats + billionaires rule which actively supports street criminals, and rioters, plus, like Obama seek a US industrial and national decline, out of malice, for me, not interested. Not interested in banning drilling (via, the Bureau of Land Management) and NOT rushing forward with R&D for Renewables, at the same time. Doing stuff like this is not a mark either for or against native intelligence, but rather and example of how ideological interferes with rational thinking  

On my team, the ideological is about what to do with abortion, and the choices of state governments will likely retain many votes which you guys may have lost. So we get to see about 22 and 24 and see how events will influence people personally. As of now, Team Joey is losing and El Trump is looking better to many. 


Things may change because there are so many of Naseem Nicholas Taibs' (economist) Black Swans abounding that the world is in for more of the same tough times as it has been. How this will affect politics here is beyond my intellectual pay grade. 


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Philip Benjamin

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Jul 8, 2022, 9:38:35 AM7/8/22
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[Philip Benjamin]

  Paganism with un-awakened consciousness in diverse forms rules about 90% of the globe including today’s Europe and America—atheism, humanism, animism, polytheism,  pantheism, cabalism, Marxism, Socialism, Fascism, Satanism, Statism, Collective Capitalism, Neo-Liberalism, anti-individualism, New Age, Identity Politics, etc.  One has to cut off from reality not to mention paganism in describing the present state of human minds.

Philip Benjamin  

Sent: Thursday, July 7, 2022 1:46 PM
To: 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List <everyth...@googlegroups.com>

Cc: spudboy100
Subject: Re: The Supreme Court and the Electoral College

 

On Thu, Jul 7, 2022 at 1:24 PM Philip Benjamin <medin...@hotmail.com> wrote:

John Clark

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Jul 8, 2022, 9:58:26 AM7/8/22
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On Fri, Jul 8, 2022 at 9:38 AM Philip Benjamin <medin...@hotmail.com> wrote:

 

> Paganism with un-awakened consciousness in diverse forms rules about 90% of the globe including today’s Europe and America—atheism, humanism, animism, polytheism,  pantheism, cabalism, Marxism, Socialism, Fascism, Satanism, Statism, Collective Capitalism, Neo-Liberalism, anti-individualism, New Age, Identity Politics, etc.  One has to cut off from reality not to mention paganism in describing the present state of human minds.


Is Christianity paganism, if not why not, and if it is then give me an example of something, anything, that is NOT pagan.  Saying everything is pagan is equivalent to saying nothing is pagan because meaning needs contrast.

John K Clark    See what's on my new list at  Extropolis
09t









 

Philip Benjamin  

From: everyth...@googlegroups.com <everyth...@googlegroups.com> On Behalf Of John Clark
Sent: Thursday, July 7, 2022 1:46 PM
To: 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List <everyth...@googlegroups.com>
Cc: spudboy100
Subject: Re: The Supreme Court and the Electoral College

 

On Thu, Jul 7, 2022 at 1:24 PM Philip Benjamin <medin...@hotmail.com> wrote:

 

>  WAMP-the-Ingrate did not and could not exist in the 1700’s! Today’s WAMP-the-Ingrate will certainly have New York and California (two lawless BIG Marxist mostly pagan [...]

 

Wow you're doing better, you were able to write 28 whole words before you felt obligated to use the word "pagan"!  It would be science-fiction to imagine you could ever write an entire post without using it but pretty soon you may be able to write an entire sentence without using "pagan", but I'm curious, does that word have any meeting for you other than someone who believes in a very slightly different type of religious idiocy than the type of religious idiocy you believe in? And by the way, if you put a gun to my head I couldn't tell you who or what "WAMP-the-Ingrate" is.

 

John K Clark     

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Philip Benjamin

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John Clark]

  “´.... Give me an example of something, anything, that is NOT pagan…. “.

[Philip Benjamin]

     This is a reasonable question, though the problem was defined for over over 20 years wherever that was allowed, though the WAMP (often Marxists) despotically forbids. 

WAMP is generally speaking a self-description, if anybody wants to join, most welcome!! The name “John” meaning ”Jah (YHWH) is gracious” is not of pagan origin, that does not necessarily mean that anybody with that name is not a Gaia centered conformist. Pagan comes from Pan-Gaia-n, i.e. earth centered, earth worshippers, by extension the doctrinaire environmentalists and the pseudo-climatologists.

         A “transformed consciousness” is what the Prophet describes as:  “And I will give you a new heart, and a new spirit I will put within you. And I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh”. Ezekiel 36:26. Earth-centeredness is unavoidable for all earthlings, “none good” (Psalm 14:3; Romans 3:12; Luke 18:19) even in an “awakened consciousness”, or Augustinian transformation (“Two Great Awakenings for example”). Rabbi Saul of Tarsus put it this way expressing his great frustration after transformation on the Damascus road: Romans 7:24. “ O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death”?  

    Only the products (Marxists) of WAMP-the-Ingrate can claim to be “good”!!   For science today Ezekiel’s “new heart” or the “inner man” of the Apostles refers to the “dark matter body” with its chemistry vis-à-ˈvis its “light matter twin” cocreated at conception.

Philip Benjamin

Notes:

Jeremiah 17:9.“The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?”

Romans chs. 1—3. Total corruption of mankindMark 7: 21. “For from within, out of the heart of man, come evil thoughts, sexual immorality, theft, murder, adultery, fornications, murders, Thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lasciviousness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness:”

Ezekiel 36:26. “And I will give you a new heart, and a new spirit I will put within you. And I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh”.

 

From: everyth...@googlegroups.com everyth...@googlegroups.com On Behalf Of John Clark
Sent: Friday, July 8, 2022 8:58 AM
To: 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List everyth...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: The Supreme Court and the Electoral College

 

On Fri, Jul 8, 2022 at 9:38 AM Philip Benjamin <medin...@hotmail.com> wrote:

 

> Paganism with un-awakened consciousness in diverse forms rules about 90% of the globe including today’s Europe and America—atheism, humanism, animism, polytheism,  pantheism, cabalism, Marxism, Socialism, Fascism, Satanism, Statism, Collective Capitalism, Neo-Liberalism, anti-individualism, New Age, Identity Politics, etc.  One has to cut off from reality not to mention paganism in describing the present state of human minds.

“Is Christianity paganism, if not why not, and if it is then give me an example of something, anything, that is NOT pagan.  Saying everything is pagan is equivalent to saying nothing is pagan because meaning needs contrast”  John Clark.

 

 

 

From: 'Rosemary Rock-Evans' via Consciousness-Online <general...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Friday, July 8, 2022 9:26 AM
To: general...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [Consciousness-Online] RE: The Supreme Court and the Electoral College

 

Dear Philip,

Mr Clark's reply [he cannot be a doctor or professor surely?] is absolutely spot on - because he has defined what a WAMP is by his own reply!! There is

- Sarcasm - Wow you're doing better, you were able to write 28 whole words before you felt obligated [sic] to use the word "pagan"!

- Abuse - but pretty soon you may be able to write an entire sentence without using "pagan",

- Insult - It would be science-fiction to imagine you could ever write an entire post without using it

- Condescension - but I'm curious, does that word have any meeting [sic] for you other than someone who believes in a very slightly different type of religious idiocy than the type of religious idiocy you believe in?

- Arrogance/Ignorance And by the way, if you put a gun to my head I couldn't tell you who or what "WAMP-the-Ingrate" is.

 

 

 

This is a WAMP! An arrogant, dismissive, condescending, abusive individual who uses sarcasm as a form of argument, as well as insult and abuse. And yet is unable to spell or use grammatically correct English!!
"Obligated" means "require or compel (someone) to undertake a legal or moral duty". I think he may mean obliged and he has mis-spelt meeting because I suspect he means 'meaning'.

 

I can even add extra characteristics - they shout louder than you to get their point heard, they rarely listen, or even if they appear to be listening, they ignore what has been said completely or choose to misinterpret it. If any opinion is expressed contrary to their own they either pretend they haven't heard or have the person banned [from facebook, from youtube, from forums ....... ] and they do all this without ever bothering to even look for what was really said [And by the way, if you put a gun to my head I couldn't tell you who or what "WAMP-the-Ingrate" is]

 

Crumbs, do I know this person!!!! This is a WAMP!!!!!

You keep going Philip, your opinion is equal to anyone else's and considering you have never done any of these things - insult, abuse, etc - I think you can claim a great number of house points over those that do.
And by your persistence we now have a really good example [Mr Clark] of what a WAMP does and is!!

 

.

John Clark

unread,
Jul 10, 2022, 2:46:52 PM7/10/22
to 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List
On Sun, Jul 10, 2022 at 2:27 PM Philip Benjamin <medin...@hotmail.com> wrote:

John Clark]

  “´.... Give me an example of something, anything, that is NOT pagan…. “.

[Philip Benjamin]

     This is a reasonable question,


Yea I thought so.  


> though the problem was defined for over over 20 years wherever that was allowed, though the WAMP (often Marxists) despotically forbids. WAMP is generally speaking a self-description if  [ blah blah blah]


That's nice, but I don't give a damn what WAMP (whatever the hell that is) forbids, what I asked for is an example of something, anything, that is NOT pagan and you don't seem to be able to provide one. So everything is pagan, which is exactly equivalent to nothing is pagan because 0=0.

John K Clark    See what's on my new list at  Extropolis
hhh



Philip Benjamin

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Jul 11, 2022, 3:31:20 PM7/11/22
to Everything List

general...@googlegroups.com Subject: RE: [Consciousness-Online] RE: The Supreme Court and the Electoral College

 

[Olaf Stapledon] quoted below.

” The fictitious deities of all races in all worlds once more crowded themselves upon me,…”

[Philip Benjamin]

     This is off the thread here. However, I will try to retain the thought. Prof Olaf is fundamentally wrong here and logically inconsistent. How can fictitious deities really do anything at all? Human life ( for that matter any life) is more than a bunch of fundamental particles. That is why even unreal and fictitious deities occupy human minds! How could any race or individual intrinsically come up with any fictitious notions of a friendly or hostile deity? Why can’t any mind be absolutely blank of any such thinking? He looks like endorsing one of those Israeli/Jewish women of Jeremiah’s days who said: ” As for the word that thou hast spoken unto us in the name of the Lord, we will not hearken unto thee.  But we will certainly do whatsoever thing goes forth out of our own mouth, to burn incense unto the queen of heaven, and to pour out drink offerings unto her, as we have done, we, and our fathers, our kings, and our princes, in the cities of Judah, and in the streets of Jerusalem: for then had we plenty of victuals, and were well, and saw no evil”.

     The word pagan got into Queen’s English not by the KJV, instead heathen is used by KJV for anything outside the domain of Adonai (plural) YHWH (singular) Elohim (uni-plural).  See Joshua 24:2. Even Terah, the father of Abraham, and the father of Nachor had one of those deities.They were all heathen/pagan. Regeneration from old heathenism to new-creation in Adonai is what Apostolic or Augustinian transformation is all about. Like it or not, That, not Prof. Olaf Stapledon, is what distinguished the nonconformist West in general from the rest of the world which conformed to various deities of various races, peoples and nations—including Jungian sorceries, occultism of Monk Rasputin, Madame Blavatsky etc.

     Philip Benjamin

       From: 'Rosemary Rock-Evans' via Consciousness-Online <general...@googlegroups.com> Subject: RE: [Consciousness-Online] RE: The Supreme Court and the Electoral College   

       You know Philip I think it is rather difficult not to love the earth, but it is possible to love the earth and trust the God who created it and will destroy it. …. There is one writer who seemed to sum up this form of duality – Olaf Stapledon, a science fiction writer and University lecturer: Two related quotes …… The fictitious deities of all races in all worlds once more crowded themselves upon me, symbols of majesty and tenderness, of ruthless power, of blind creativity and of all seeing wisdom. And though their images were but the fantasies of created minds, it seemed to me that one and all did indeed embody some true features of the Star Maker's impact. ........................................... 

Suddenly it was clear to me that virtue in the Creator is not the same as virtue in the Creation. For the Creator if he should love his creation would be loving only a part of himself, but the creation praising the creator praises an infinity beyond himself. The virtue of the creation was to love and to worship. The virtue of the Creator was to create and to be infinite, the unrealisable and incomprehensible goal of worshipping creatures. ……..  It is enough to have been created, to have embodied for a moment the infinite and tumultuously creative spirit …. to have been the rough sketch for some perfected creation.
Professor Stapledon was much admired in his day …. “Stapledon was hostile to religious institutions, but not to religious yearnings”.


------ Original Message ------
From: "Philip Benjamin" <medin...@hotmail.com>
To: "general...@googlegroups.com" <general...@googlegroups.com>

Sent: Sunday, 10 Jul, 22 At 19:26
Subject: RE: [Consciousness-Online] RE: The Supreme Court and the Electoral College

John Clark]

“´.... Give me an example of something, anything, that is NOT pagan…. “.

[Philip Benjamin]

This is a reasonable question, though the problem was defined for over over 20 years wherever that was allowed, though the WAMP (often Marxists) despotically forbids.

WAMP is generally speaking a self-description, if anybody wants to join, most welcome!! The name “John” meaning ”Jah (YHWH) is gracious” is not of pagan origin, that does not necessarily mean that anybody with that name is not a Gaia centered conformist. Pagan comes from Pan-Gaia-n, i.e. earth centered, earth worshippers, by extension the doctrinaire environmentalists and the pseudo-climatologists.

A “transformed consciousness” is what the Prophet describes as: “And I will give you a new heart, and a new spirit I will put within you. And I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh”. Ezekiel 36:26. Earth-centeredness is unavoidable for all earthlings, “none good” (Psalm 14:3; Romans 3:12; Luke 18:19) even in an “awakened consciousness”, or Augustinian transformation (“Two Great Awakenings for example”). Rabbi Saul of Tarsus put it this way expressing his great frustration after transformation on the Damascus road: Romans 7:24. “ O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death”?

Only the products (Marxists) of WAMP-the-Ingrate can claim to be “good”!! For science today Ezekiel’s “new heart” or the “inner man” of the Apostles refers to the “dark matter body” with its chemistry vis-à-ˈvis its “light matter twin” cocreated at conception.

Philip Benjamin

Notes:

Jeremiah 17:9.“The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?”

Romans chs. 1—3. Total corruption of mankindMark 7: 21. “For from within, out of the heart of man, come evil thoughts, sexual immorality, theft, murder, adultery, fornications, murders, Thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lasciviousness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness:”

Ezekiel 36:26. “And I will give you a new heart, and a new spirit I will put within you. And I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh”.

From: everyth...@googlegroups.com everyth...@googlegroups.com On Behalf Of John Clark
Sent: Friday, July 8, 2022 8:58 AM

To: 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List everyth...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: The Supreme Court and the Electoral College

On Fri, Jul 8, 2022 at 9:38 AM Philip Benjamin <medin...@hotmail.com> wrote:

> Paganism with un-awakened consciousness in diverse forms rules about 90% of the globe including today’s Europe and America—atheism, humanism, animism, polytheism, pantheism, cabalism, Marxism, Socialism, Fascism, Satanism, Statism, Collective Capitalism, Neo-Liberalism, anti-individualism, New Age, Identity Politics, etc. One has to cut off from reality not to mention paganism in describing the present state of human minds.

“Is Christianity paganism, if not why not, and if it is then give me an example of something, anything, that is NOT pagan. Saying everything is pagan is equivalent to saying nothing is pagan because meaning needs contrast” John Clark.

From: 'Rosemary Rock-Evans' via Consciousness-Online <general...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Friday, July 8, 2022 9:26 AM
To: general...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [Consciousness-Online] RE: The Supreme Court and the Electoral College

Dear Philip,

Mr Clark's reply [he cannot be a doctor or professor surely?] is absolutely spot on - because he has defined what a WAMP is by his own reply!! There is

- Sarcasm - Wow you're doing better, you were able to write 28 whole words before you felt obligated [sic] to use the word "pagan"!

- Abuse - but pretty soon you may be able to write an entire sentence without using "pagan",

- Insult - It would be science-fiction to imagine you could ever write an entire post without using it

- Condescension - but I'm curious, does that word have any meeting [sic] for you other than someone who believes in a very slightly different type of religious idiocy than the type of religious idiocy you believe in?

- Arrogance/Ignorance And by the way, if you put a gun to my head I couldn't tell you who or what "WAMP-the-Ingrate" is.

This is a WAMP! An arrogant, dismissive, condescending, abusive individual who uses sarcasm as a form of argument, as well as insult and abuse. And yet is unable to spell or use grammatically correct English!!
"Obligated" means "require or compel (someone) to undertake a legal or moral duty". I think he may mean obliged and he has mis-spelt meeting because I suspect he means 'meaning'.

I can even add extra characteristics - they shout louder than you to get their point heard, they rarely listen, or even if they appear to be listening, they ignore what has been said completely or choose to misinterpret it. If any opinion is expressed contrary to their own they either pretend they haven't heard or have the person banned [from facebook, from youtube, from forums ....... ] and they do all this without ever bothering to even look for what was really said [And by the way, if you put a gun to my head I couldn't tell you who or what "WAMP-the-Ingrate" is]

Crumbs, do I know this person!!!! This is a WAMP!!!!!

You keep going Philip, your opinion is equal to anyone else's and considering you have never done any of these things - insult, abuse, etc - I think you can claim a great number of house points over those that do.
And by your persistence we now have a really good example [Mr Clark] of what a WAMP does and is!!





------ Original Message ------
From: "Philip Benjamin" <medin...@hotmail.com>
To: "general...@googlegroups.com" <general...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Friday, 8 Jul, 22 At 14:39

.

--

Lawrence Crowell

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Jul 11, 2022, 5:33:54 PM7/11/22
to Everything List
On Monday, July 11, 2022 at 2:31:20 PM UTC-5 medinuclear wrote:

general...@googlegroups.com Subject: RE: [Consciousness-Online] RE: The Supreme Court and the Electoral College

 

[Olaf Stapledon] quoted below.

” The fictitious deities of all races in all worlds once more crowded themselves upon me,…”

[Philip Benjamin]

     This is off the thread here. However, I will try to retain the thought. Prof Olaf is fundamentally wrong here and logically inconsistent. How can fictitious deities really do anything at all?


Deities operate as brain patterns, memes and thought games. There is no reason to think God, Allah or Jesus Christ exist outside of us, but we might say that the function as thought-games in the brain and by that way affect behavior. 

LC

 bizarro god lives here.jpg

Philip Benjamin

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Jul 12, 2022, 2:08:45 PM7/12/22
to Everything List

general...@googlegroups.com  Subject: RE: [Consciousness-Online] RE: The Supreme Court and the Electoral College

 

[Philip Benjamin]

      All evidences seem to indicate tis is a human problem, no animals areagitated over fictitious deities. None of the rplies address the real human problem. The brains of most animals are not all that different from humans’. You may shift the problem to neural patterns etc., but that does not answer the question, why? What, nor even how, is not the subject here. Existence is antecedent to experience. Awakened experience follows awakened existence. That is how Augustine, a pagan, hedonist scholar in Platonism became an exegete of Theology ( centered around Adonai of the Patriarchs, Prophets and the Apostles)!

Philip Benjamin

 

From: 'Rosemary Rock-Evans' via Consciousness-Online <general...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Monday, July 11, 2022 3:11 PM
To: general...@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: [Consciousness-Online] RE: The Supreme Court and the Electoral College

 

" How can fictitious deities really do anything at all?"

 

But they do, because what we believe in we become. Belief is the most important thing we have, it creates civilisations, buildings, behaviour, art, food, literature, plays, music, poems, ethics, morals ............. Take away a man's house and car and he will be upset for a while. But take away his beliefs and you destroy him.

Imposing belief systems is as destructive as waging war on them. You kill their spirit.

 





------ Original Message ------
From: "Philip Benjamin" <medin...@hotmail.com>
To: "general...@googlegroups.com" <general...@googlegroups.com>

Sent: Monday, 11 Jul, 22 At 20:28
Subject: RE: [Consciousness-Online] RE: The Supreme Court and the Electoral College

[Olaf Stapledon]

” The fictitious deities of all races in all worlds once more crowded themselves upon me,…”

[Philip Benjamin]

This is off the thread here. However, I will try to retain the thought. Prof Olaf is fundamentally wrong here and logically inconsistent. How can fictitious deities really do anything at all? Human life ( for that matter any life) is more than a bunch of fundamental particles. That is why even unreal and fictitious deities occupy human minds! How could any race or individual intrinsically come up with any fictitious notions of a friendly or hostile deity? Why can’t any mind be absolutely blank of any such thinking? He looks like endorsing one of those Israeli/Jewish women of Jeremiah’s days who said: ” As for the word that thou hast spoken unto us in the name of the Lord, we will not hearken unto thee. But we will certainly do whatsoever thing goes forth out of our own mouth, to burn incense unto the queen of heaven, and to pour out drink offerings unto her, as we have done, we, and our fathers, our kings, and our princes, in the cities of Judah, and in the streets of Jerusalem: for then had we plenty of victuals, and were well, and saw no evil”.

The word pagan got into Queen’s English not by the KJV, instead heathen is used by KJV for anything outside the domain of Adonai (plural) YHWH (singular) Elohim (uni-plural). See Joshua 24:2. Even Terah, the father of Abraham, and the father of Nachor had one of those deities.They were all heathen/pagan. Regeneration from old heathenism to new-creation in Adonai is what Apostolic or Augustinian transformation is all about. Like it or not, That, not Prof. Olaf Stapledon, is what distinguished the nonconformist West in general from the rest of the world which conformed to various deities of various races, peoples and nations—including Jungian sorceries, occultism of Monk Rasputin, Madame Blavatsky etc.

Philip Benjamin

From: 'Rosemary Rock-Evans' via Consciousness-Online <general...@googlegroups.com> Subject: RE: [Consciousness-Online] RE: The Supreme Court and the Electoral College

You know Philip I think it is rather difficult not to love the earth, but it is possible to love the earth and trust the God who created it and will destroy it. …. There is one writer who seemed to sum up this form of duality – Olaf Stapledon, a science fiction writer and University lecturer: Two related quotes …… The fictitious deities of all races in all worlds once more crowded themselves upon me, symbols of majesty and tenderness, of ruthless power, of blind creativity and of all seeing wisdom. And though their images were but the fantasies of created minds, it seemed to me that one and all did indeed embody some true features of the Star Maker's impact. ...........................................

Suddenly it was clear to me that virtue in the Creator is not the same as virtue in the Creation. For the Creator if he should love his creation would be loving only a part of himself, but the creation praising the creator praises an infinity beyond himself. The virtue of the creation was to love and to worship. The virtue of the Creator was to create and to be infinite, the unrealisable and incomprehensible goal of worshipping creatures. …….. It is enough to have been created, to have embodied for a moment the infinite and tumultuously creative spirit …. to have been the rough sketch for some perfected creation.
Professor Stapledon was much admired in his day …. “Stapledon was hostile to religious institutions, but not to religious yearnings”.

------ Original Message ------
From: "Philip Benjamin" <medin...@hotmail.com>
To: "general...@googlegroups.com" <general...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, 10 Jul, 22 At 19:26
Subject: RE: [Consciousness-Online] RE: The Supreme Court and the Electoral College

John Clark]

“´.... Give me an example of something, anything, that is NOT pagan…. “.

[Philip Benjamin]

This is a reasonable question, though the problem was defined for over over 20 years wherever that was allowed, though the WAMP (often Marxists) despotically forbids.

WAMP is generally speaking a self-description, if anybody wants to join, most welcome!! The name “John” meaning ”Jah (YHWH) is gracious” is not of pagan origin, that does not necessarily mean that anybody with that name is not a Gaia centered conformist. Pagan comes from Pan-Gaia-n, i.e. earth centered, earth worshippers, by extension the doctrinaire environmentalists and the pseudo-climatologists.

A “transformed consciousness” is what the Prophet describes as: “And I will give you a new heart, and a new spirit I will put within you. And I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh”. Ezekiel 36:26. Earth-centeredness is unavoidable for all earthlings, “none good” (Psalm 14:3; Romans 3:12; Luke 18:19) even in an “awakened consciousness”, or Augustinian transformation (“Two Great Awakenings for example”). Rabbi Saul of Tarsus put it this way expressing his great frustration after transformation on the Damascus road: Romans 7:24. “ O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death”?

Only the products (Marxists) of WAMP-the-Ingrate can claim to be “good”!! For science today Ezekiel’s “new heart” or the “inner man” of the Apostles refers to the “dark matter body” with its chemistry vis-à-ˈvis its “light matter twin” cocreated at conception.

Philip Benjamin

Notes:

Jeremiah 17:9.“The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?”

Romans chs. 1—3. Total corruption of mankindMark 7: 21. “For from within, out of the heart of man, come evil thoughts, sexual immorality, theft, murder, adultery, fornications, murders, Thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lasciviousness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness:”

Ezekiel 36:26. “And I will give you a new heart, and a new spirit I will put within you. And I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh”.

From: everyth...@googlegroups.com everyth...@googlegroups.com On Behalf Of John Clark
Sent: Friday, July 8, 2022 8:58 AM

To: 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List everyth...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: The Supreme Court and the Electoral College

On Fri, Jul 8, 2022 at 9:38 AM Philip Benjamin <medin...@hotmail.com> wrote:

> Paganism with un-awakened consciousness in diverse forms rules about 90% of the globe including today’s Europe and America—atheism, humanism, animism, polytheism, pantheism, cabalism, Marxism, Socialism, Fascism, Satanism, Statism, Collective Capitalism, Neo-Liberalism, anti-individualism, New Age, Identity Politics, etc. One has to cut off from reality not to mention paganism in describing the present state of human minds.

“Is Christianity paganism, if not why not, and if it is then give me an example of something, anything, that is NOT pagan. Saying everything is pagan is equivalent to saying nothing is pagan because meaning needs contrast” John Clark.

From: 'Rosemary Rock-Evans' via Consciousness-Online <general...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Friday, July 8, 2022 9:26 AM
To: general...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [Consciousness-Online] RE: The Supreme Court and the Electoral College

Dear Philip,

Mr Clark's reply [he cannot be a doctor or professor surely?] is absolutely spot on - because he has defined what a WAMP is by his own reply!! There is

- Sarcasm - Wow you're doing better, you were able to write 28 whole words before you felt obligated [sic] to use the word "pagan"!

- Abuse - but pretty soon you may be able to write an entire sentence without using "pagan",

- Insult - It would be science-fiction to imagine you could ever write an entire post without using it

- Condescension - but I'm curious, does that word have any meeting [sic] for you other than someone who believes in a very slightly different type of religious idiocy than the type of religious idiocy you believe in?

- Arrogance/Ignorance And by the way, if you put a gun to my head I couldn't tell you who or what "WAMP-the-Ingrate" is.

This is a WAMP! An arrogant, dismissive, condescending, abusive individual who uses sarcasm as a form of argument, as well as insult and abuse. And yet is unable to spell or use grammatically correct English!!
"Obligated" means "require or compel (someone) to undertake a legal or moral duty". I think he may mean obliged and he has mis-spelt meeting because I suspect he means 'meaning'.

I can even add extra characteristics - they shout louder than you to get their point heard, they rarely listen, or even if they appear to be listening, they ignore what has been said completely or choose to misinterpret it. If any opinion is expressed contrary to their own they either pretend they haven't heard or have the person banned [from facebook, from youtube, from forums ....... ] and they do all this without ever bothering to even look for what was really said [And by the way, if you put a gun to my head I couldn't tell you who or what "WAMP-the-Ingrate" is]

Crumbs, do I know this person!!!! This is a WAMP!!!!!

You keep going Philip, your opinion is equal to anyone else's and considering you have never done any of these things - insult, abuse, etc - I think you can claim a great number of house points over those that do.
And by your persistence we now have a really good example [Mr Clark] of what a WAMP does and is!!

 



------ Original Message ------
From: "Philip Benjamin" <medin...@hotmail.com>
To: "general...@googlegroups.com" <general...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Friday, 8 Jul, 22 At 14:39

John Clark

unread,
Jul 12, 2022, 3:15:30 PM7/12/22
to 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List
On Tue, Jul 12, 2022 at 2:08 PM Philip Benjamin <medin...@hotmail.com> wrote:

> Augustine, a pagan [...]

You scared me for a minute, the world seemed entirely out of whack because you wrote three entire sentences without using the word "pagan" , but I shouldn't have worried, you used it in the fourth sentence even though you are not able to provide a single example of something, anything, that is NOT a "pagan". 

John K Clark    See what's on my new list at  Extropolis
9uy

 








spudb...@aol.com

unread,
Jul 12, 2022, 3:37:07 PM7/12/22
to everyth...@googlegroups.com
For me, pagan is an anagram for solar energy technology. Perovskite And Gallium Arsenide Nitride. 

Flexible all-perovskite tandem solar cells with a 24.7% efficiency (techxplore.com)

See? I have squared the circle, without a word about Cartesian Dualism. 


Can I hear an Amen?

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From: John Clark <johnk...@gmail.com>
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Philip Benjamin

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Jul 17, 2022, 4:25:42 PM7/17/22
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general...@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: FW: [Consciousness-Online] RE: The Supreme Court and the Electoral College

[Roland Cichowski]

“As I have already said about dead matter, aseity does not give rise to it. It may give rise to an illusion that dead matter exists….  if I believe dead matter is an illusion and does not exist. How can you then pose a question to me that Marxists prefer one option that does not exist and Augustinian civilisations prefer the other option, which is; (something that does not exist), can give rise to life.. ”

    [Philip Benjamin]

           Aseity is a quality of something that ontologically exists, which solves the problem of infinite regress. Consciousness is also an attribute of existence with no creative powers.  Sense perception is an experience resulting from objectively measurable (not illusionary) observations. No existence, no experience. That is well settled as regards the requirements of law of noncontradiction and law of causality, as you have observed in your previous post. No objectivity, no science. That is the observable difference in outcomes of illusionary worldviews of Yogis and rishis, and  objective world views of reality.  Science is then an effect, not cause, of rational thinking.

       Augustinian consciousness is an awakened consciousness. Marxist consciousness is a natural consciousness. No bias or prejudice can fail to note the difference in outcomes of the tw, so much so, that (stated many times afore) the pagan Marxist Joseph Stalin had to coin the term “American Exceptionalism” . America is not the product of yoga, occultism, Cabbala, Talmud, Tao, TM, Jungian Sorcery, Maya thinking, New Age etc. Rather, this Non-Sovereign Republic of Sovereign States, resulted from the “Two Great Awakenings”, first led by the prodigious founder-President of Princeton U and the other led by President of Yale U. These are not illusions, but historical and historic events. It will be very unwise and perilous for politicians and jurists groomed by WAMP-the-Ingrate to ignore those FACTS and indoctrinate every level of Civil and Military life with Socialist-Fascist-Marxist (SOFAMA) pagan globalism in the once Augustinian objective West in general and twice awakened factual America in particular.

       I have to skip the definitions of “Awakening”, “pagan”, “WAMP” etc.

Philip Benjamin

 

From: general...@googlegroups.com <general...@googlegroups.com> On Behalf Of Roland Cichowski
Sent: Sunday, July 17, 2022 12:43 AM
To: general...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: FW: [Consciousness-Online] RE: The Supreme Court and the Electoral College

 

Hi, Philip.

[Philip Benjamin]That is a more rational approach. Only a degree of rationality can be accomplished in such matters.

 

[Philip Benjamin] What is more rational? Aseity of dead matter producing life.

 

[Roland] I’m not sure if these statements are rational or not but I thought I gave good reason in past posts, why. I do not believe that any evidence can be found for the existence of what you call dead matter. I am presuming that by dead matter that you are referring to what most people would call the physical or material universe.

 

Our understanding of how our senses might work in this physical reality does not work when we investigate it. If such a physical universe exists in the way you seem to think it does, then what we experience of it is unlikely to be anything like what it really is. This is because our sensory equipment, which you seem to presume to be part of this physical universe, do not transmit to us what this physical reality is really like. In this sense what we experience is an illusion representing something unknown, created by consciousness, to realise this is the real awakening.

 

Given this situation I agree it is not rational to believe that dead (Physical) matter can be producing life. I am not completely sure how you see a connection between the principle of aseity and the appearance of dead matter. Aseity is a principle it is not physical in any way. So the idea that it gives rise to physical or dead matter seems to be a non-starter to me. [physical or dead matter is an illusion produced by consciousness. Perhaps that is the reason that as you suggest the statement does not appear to be rational.   

 

[Philip Benjamin] …or Aseity of LIFE creating dead matter and life forms?

 

[Roland] It is not clear to me what you mean by aseity of Life.

 

As I have already said about dead matter, aseity does not give rise to it. It may give rise to an illusion that dead matter exists and so suggests that life exists as an extension of it but this is not the true state of reality. So the only way I can understand your point is that you believe that dead matter exists and that it gives rise to life forms. Well if I believe dead matter does not exist in the real state of reality then obviously I cannot see a way in which it gives rise to life forms. Can you? you are asking me to choose between two options that are self defeating. I can see the possibility that what you are calling life and life forms is better perceived as consciousness. As in life produces or is consciousness.

 

So to rewrite your sentence; Aseity of consciousness creates dead matter and hence life (conscious) forms. Written this way, then, yes, that could be correct, but consciousness is still producing an illusion whose purpose is to perceive the real situation.

 

[Philip Benjamin] Marxists prefer the former. Augustinian civilizations preferred the latter. The difference in outcomes is obvious!

 

[Roland] You keep stating these points in your posts many times. Given what I have said above. Can you understand, if I believe dead matter is an illusion and does not exist. How can you then pose a question to me that Marxists prefer one option that does not exist and Augustinian civilisations prefer the other option, which is; (something that does not exist), can give rise to life. The division you perceive does not seem to make sense. To me it suggests both Marxists and Augustinian civilisations are on the wrong track and are mistaken.

 

That may seem a bit harsh but this discussion is supposed to be about finding out the true nature of consciousness. Your consciousness is suggesting to you that there is some sort of conflict between Marxists and Augustinian civilisation. I would suggest that these conflicts that you have become so wedded to are the result of illusory manifestations produced by the fact that your consciousness accepts the reality of a physical universe in, which all these conflicts take place. In reality they are side issues to the question of what consciousness is because they are all based upon experiences that are manifested to you by your consciousness. A possible reason for this would appear to be; that it is so that you can experience something unknown and unknowable to you. This is in turn because none of your senses are capable of giving you a direct experience of what this unknowable thing is.

 

It may be unknowable to us through our senses but our very existence as conscious beings indicate to us that we exist. This suggests to me that there is a link between the unknowable and our own consciousness. We ourselves are proof that something exists. The condition of aseity would seem to be a good candidate for at least the root cause of this unknowable manifestation of something existing. This is because as I stated in my last post aseity may be the root cause from, which issues; all following chains of cause and effects that manifest in our experiences.

 

As far as I can discern our consciousness is attempting to perceive what it cannot know directly. Please consider the possibility that the condition of aseity may in fact be as close as we can get to a representation of consciousness in this discussion.

 

This suggests that the effort of our consciousness to know itself is in fact the result of the circumstance of the condition of asities’ efforts to know its self. The appearance of a dead matter physical universe to us in our consciousness is the result of this effort by consciousness to know itself. This may seem somewhat of a circular argument but then this is to be expected of the condition that is producing it. It too is a self-sustaining circular manifestation. The miraculous thing is that this condition of aseity seems to have the ability to stand outside of itself and view itself. However, it seems it can only do this by creating the appearance of a physical universe (of dead matter) perhaps in an effort to give consciousness something to latch onto. Our problem is how to correctly divine what this illusory projection is suggesting to us because it would seem to be the only indication of what this condition of aseity or consciousness is.

 

The issues of PAGANS WAMPS etc. all pale into insignificance in the face of this. I intuit from your previous posts that you might be recognising that this condition of aseity is something to do with what you call YHWH (SINGULAR), if it is, then this is good reason to pursue the issue of consciousness, is it not? I feel this is the real task behind what you might call the Augustinian revelation. But that might be putting words into your mouth.

 

Have to close now, all the best Roland

 

On 16/07/2022 4:53, Philip Benjamin wrote:

[Philip Benjamin]

Hi, Roland. That is a  more rational approach. Only a degree of rationality can be accomplished in such matters. What is more rational? Aseity of dead matter producing life or aseity of LIFE creating dead matter and life forms? Marxists prefer the former. Augustinian civilizations preferred the latter. The difference in outcomes is obvious!

  Philip Benjamin

From: general...@googlegroups.com <general...@googlegroups.com> On Behalf Of Roland Cichowski
Sent: Friday, July 15, 2022 9:42 AM
To: general...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: FW: [Consciousness-Online] RE: The Supreme Court and the Electoral College

 

Philip thank you for the reply and sorry for the delay in answering.

It is interesting that you use the example of to be and not to be and point out that it is a logical contradiction. It does seem so.

You also point out is against the law of causality. Again it would seem so.

I have noticed in the past you have pointed out the function aseity has to play in things.

If I understand this phenomenon correctly then it does not have a cause it is what it is, self-sufficient, unto itself. I find it interesting that therefore nothing can be before this; state of aseity, as it has no cause. However, I perceive that this does not preclude it causing effects. I recognise that this quality of aseity is the basis of all of the creation, which we experience because it is acting as the first cause. I perceive that in your thinking you seem to be placing these contradictions somewhere along; what is best described as a sequence of cause and effect. This will lead to the argument that you are proposing and of course it does seem correct when perceived like this.

However, and I find this difficult to describe, consider that these contradictions are displaying the same quality as the aseity from which they have originated. It is as if you take these contradictions down through a sequence of cause and effect until you reach their original cause. That original cause is a condition of aseity, I think.

So apparent contradictions like; existence and experience; to be or not to be; which comes first the chicken or the egg are all displaying the quality of aseity from which they originated. They can only be correctly understood as being perceived of and conceived of in terms of a pairing. They are together. It is our consciousness, which separates them and then is forced to consider, which came first or their apparent contradiction.

When their quality of aseity is considered then it can be perceived that existence and experience exist together, hand in hand as it were. This becomes more obvious if you try to consider how existence could be if there were nothing to experience it or likewise; how could anything be experienced if nothing existed. The two qualities are not in contradiction they are co-dependent upon one another. We are only able to be conscious of their qualities when they are considered together.

This is what I perceive and I would welcome your opinion.

All the best Roland  

 

On 13/07/2022 23:36, Philip Benjamin wrote:

[Roland]

   “But what do you think about the possibility that existence and experience are co dependent? Neither can exist without the other, I think.”

[Philip Benjamin]

    It is a logical contradiction “to be” and “not be” at the same time in the same frame of reference. It is also against the law of causality. Existences is the cause of the effect experience. The names John, Liz, Joe, Mary etc. are the effects not causes of an Augustinian transformation of a multitude of individual consciousness in an entire continent, which was effected through the instrumentality of Romans 13: 13-14 (https://www.midwestaugustinians.org/conversion-of-st-augustine}.

Rabbi Saul of Tarsus will take it all the way to Genesis 1: 1-2 in 2 Corinthians 4: 6.

Philip Benajamin

 

From: general...@googlegroups.com <general...@googlegroups.com> On Behalf Of Roland
Sent: Wednesday, July 13, 2022 8:09 AM
To: 'Rosemary Rock-Evans' via Consciousness-Online <general...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: [Consciousness-Online] RE: The Supreme Court and the Electoral College

 

I agree with you Philip in that 'why' is the most important question. To many thinkers waste time on how. Why comes first.

 

 Philip: Existence is antecedent to experience.

 

Possibly. But what do you think about the possibility that existence and experience are co dependent? Neither can exist without the other, I think.

 

All the best, Roland.

On Wed, 13 July 2022, 3:33 am Philip Benjamin, <medin...@hotmail.com> wrote:

[Philip Benjamin]

      All evidences seem to indicate tis is a human problem, no animals areagitated over fictitious deities. None of the rplies address the real human problem. The brains of most animals are not all that different from humans’. You may sft the problem to neural patterns etc., but that does not answer the question, why? What, nor even how, is not the subject here. Existence is antecedent to experience. Awakened experience follows awakened existence. That is how Augustine, a pagan, hedonist scholar in Platonism became an exegete of Theology ( centered around Adonai of the Patriarchs, Prophets and the Apostles)!

Philip Benjamin

 

From: 'Rosemary Rock-Evans' via Consciousness-Online <general...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Monday, July 11, 2022 3:11 PM
To: general...@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: [Consciousness-Online] RE: The Supreme Court and the Electoral College

 

" How can fictitious deities really do anything at all?"

 

But they do, because what we believe in we become. Belief is the most important thing we have, it creates civilisations, buildings, behaviour, art, food, literature, plays, music, poems, ethics, morals ............. Take away a man's house and car and he will be upset for a while. But take away his beliefs and you destroy him.

Imposing belief systems is as destructive as waging war on them. You kill their spirit.

 






------ Original Message ------
From: "Philip Benjamin" <medin...@hotmail.com>
To: "general...@googlegroups.com" <general...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Monday, 11 Jul, 22 At 20:28

Subject: RE: [Consciousness-Online] RE: The Supreme Court and the Electoral College

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