Re: NYTimes.com: Don’t Just Freeze Russia’s Money. Seize It.

[spudb...@aol.com]

The International Court thing, I think, is merely psych warfare against the Putin gang. My thing is will it work? Minus the will to reward or punish, not just talk, it seemingly will fail. We also risk nuke annihilation. This needs to be kept in mind. We are dealing with Russky psychopaths. The NYT progressive left is  out of it's depth as is the Joey crew. Get tough minded, get coldly rational, decide what it takes to survive the bastards.

---

On Friday, April 15, 2022 Brent Meeker <everyth...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

I think the way it should work is that the International Court should award compensation to Ukraine from Russia and those Russian funds seized by the US and other nations would be transferred to Ukrainie per the court order.  This makes it clear that international law is in effect, not just that the US is acting as a party in the war.

Brent

On 4/15/2022 3:39 AM, John Clark wrote:

Check out this article from The New York Times. Because I'm a subscriber, you'll be able to read it for free.

Don’t Just Freeze Russia’s Money. Seize It.

It’s the only way to signal that the United States is committed to making even the world’s most powerful states pay for their war crimes.

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/04/15/opinion/russia-war-currency-reserves.html?unlocked_article_code=AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAACEIPuomT1JKd6J17Vw1cRCfTTMQmqxCdw_PIxftm3iWka3DJDm8fiOMNAo6B_EGKf7d4fNo6miuSXppKLaU1Sfp536pFMldgURelud2EhJEBaW0TmL6EY1kXjdjLTKxqtnjjdHW4I-Nyg7eytB_fOja9RKPbhHM-IF02o49ufAr7xSELxKvEQrMk2YR0iOwzRcwvHUd2byaPt_DpCxh1KY_GOkmasl9qLrkfDTLDntec6KYCdRFRDT_FTXB-6GU77rBMKY9dffa_f1N7Jp2I0fhGAXdoLYypG5Q2W4DT8r1ourTHohCJo9GkyEIMCVVHmGBQyxLkSXx75Q&smid=em-share

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[Brent Meeker]

Oh well, if I'd only known it was so simple as being coldly rational.  Maybe you point out what that is?

Brent

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[spudb...@aol.com]

I think is I don't trust your guy Joey, nor, axiomatically do I trust your lad Joe nor his people. The Afghanistan Withdrawal. He pretends to be tough yet drags his ass. I am supposing that  Putin and Xi see this already. Always hungry to for things to be a get out of inflation free card, rather than worry about an existential threat. 

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[John Clark]

On Fri, Apr 15, 2022 at 9:01 PM spudboy100 via Everything List <everyth...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

> I think is trust your guy Joey, nor, axiomatically do I trust your lad Joe nor his people. The Afghanistan Withdrawal. He pretends to be tough yet drags his ass.

And you pretend to be tough and yet you're so scared of Putin getting mad that you think he should be rewarded for invading Ukraine by having the USA invite him to put ICBMs with H-bomb warheads in Cuba aimed at American cities. And you don't trust Biden but you're perfectly willing to trust your life that Donald Trump will always do the cool, calm, rational thing in any nuclear crisis. Something does not compute.

John K Clark    See what's on my new list at  Extropolis

dnq

[Brent Meeker]

"Minus the will to reward or punish, not just talk, it seemingly will fail." means that "Don’t Just Freeze Russia’s Money. Seize It." will fail too.  All effective action takes the will to act.  Your "analysis" is blovating.'

Brent

On 4/15/2022 12:19 PM, spudboy100 via Everything List wrote:

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/1314831297.150859.1650050382636%40mail.yahoo.com.

[Brent Meeker]

In your usual devious way of course you completely avoided any "coldly rational solution" you cavalierly had recommended others to adopt and instead excreted some more "analysis".

Brent

[spudb...@aol.com]

Yeah, JC. I don't trust reco's from Joey and company or the NYT. If I were chieftain, I'd be bouncing ideas off of different people with a rep for accuracy in assessments, as well as foreign policy people. This is not a worry for you, but reflecting upon Joe's Afghanistan fiasco, I'd say it's rational to worry.

My decision to comment was from a response to your by LC who briefly mentioned that Putin would want something back to get out of Dutch with his population. After our arguments about the nuclear defense triad, using and possibly detecting US submarines, then I still hold that, how many times they gonna kill us? The Pentagon used to call this "Make the rubble bounce." So if the capability to retaliate still exists for the foreseeable future then why should I complain?

Notice please that unlike Obama before and Joey afterwards, foreign policy was better for US citizens or less threatening. This was true also of Bush 43! Was it Caligula who said, "It takes a dog to eat a dog." There's my reasoning so to speak. My question to you regarding my awful proposal, is; do you think it wouldn't work, and spell out why? 

As former Secretary of State under Bush 41, James Baker once said, "Bribe the bastards!" I never I liked James Baker the 3rd, only that his statement opened up a possibility to settle this and save lives by giving war criminal Vlad a way out.

Last. On your faux shaming of me for not trusting Joey over Vlad the Impaler, is that I surmise that your party and its financiers, hate the Great Internal Enemy, much as Stalin, Mao, Kim, Pol Pot, viewed the prime enemy as within country. I size your voters as really good with this. You guys are always worried that Donny was soft on Vlad, and "How unpatriotic!" I would say (I  am not complaining here) that you guys hate us, the Rep voter far more than Xi's China, or the Ayatollahs (look at Joey go!), or anyone else. It's us. 

Happy Easter.

-----Original Message-----
From: John Clark <johnk...@gmail.com>
To: 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List <everyth...@googlegroups.com>
Cc: meeke...@gmail.com <meeke...@gmail.com>
Sent: Fri, Apr 15, 2022 9:49 pm
Subject: Re: NYTimes.com: Don’t Just Freeze Russia’s Money. Seize It.

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[spudb...@aol.com]

"
Bloviation is speech or writing that is wordy, pompous, and generally empty of meaning: verbosity. Verb: bloviate. A person who bloviates is a bloviator.Feb 12, 2020"

Too many words? 

-----Original Message-----
From: Brent Meeker <meeke...@gmail.com>

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[spudb...@aol.com]

Will the proposal by the NYT as submitted by JC work or not? 

Also, what is your foreign policy solution, Mr. Quantum? 

[John Clark]

On Sat, Apr 16, 2022 at 10:03 AM <spudb...@aol.com> wrote:

> Was it Caligula who said, "It takes a dog to eat a dog."

I think it was the Emperor Tiberius who said that when asked why he picked Caligula to be his successor; but it doesn't matter, what should've been said was "it takes a smart dog and one that cannot be easily swayed by hollow flattery, to eat a dog. Donald Trump is a dog, but not the right kind of dog to deal with Vladimir Putin.

 

> On your faux shaming of me for not trusting Joey over Vlad the Impaler, is that I surmise that your party and its financiers, hate the Great Internal Enemy, much as Stalin, Mao, Kim, Pol Pot,

 

Stalin, Mao, and Pol Pot can no longer harm me or anybody else, and Kim is far away and controls a weak country. But fascist Republicans are numerous and much closer, and there is a real danger that in the near future they could seize total control of a country that is the world's strongest, both economically and militarily, and also is the country I happened to live in. So I don't believe it's illogical to have a less than friendly attitude towards such people. The stakes are very high, there is a real possibility that Donald Trump could give us a solution to the Fermi paradox, but not an answer we'd like.

> You guys are always worried that Donny was soft on Vlad, and "How unpatriotic!" I would say (I  am not complaining here) that you guys hate us, the Rep voter far more than Xi's China, or the Ayatollahs (look at Joey go!), or anyone else. It's us. 

 

Speaking of hate, I believe the principal reason Republicans in general and you in particular hate Joe Biden so much is that he belongs to a different tribe than you, in the voting booth there is a "D" next to his name not a "R". As I've mentioned before for most of my life I was a registered Republican, I'm a Democrat now but I have no particular loyalty towards them, if they ever go half as crazy as Republicans have I would not hesitate to drop them like a hot potato. And if there was any doubt before then after January 6 2021 all doubt was removed and it became crystal clear that Republicans hate Democrats more than they love the US Constitution or democracy. I would even go so far as to say that some, perhaps most, Republicans hate Democrats more than they love life.  

 

> Happy Easter.

And happy Jesus zombie day to you too. 

John K Clark    See what's on my new list at  Extropolis

zjd

[Brent Meeker]

On 4/16/2022 8:34 AM, John Clark wrote:

And happy Jesus zombie day to you too. 

Don't let that death cult figure spoil your appreciation of the renewal of spring time.  Jesus will go the way of Isis, Quetzalcoatl, Rama, Zeus, Thor, Ba Xian, Dagon, Vishnu, and a hundred others.  Spring will be here as long as we're here to enjoy it.

Brent

[spudb...@aol.com]

Rather than deny my assertions you have reinforced them JC. Stalin cannot hurt you if one is Stalin. in case you missed the script? Joey, like Obama has energized the opposition. I would go so far as to say that sans, Barrack, Donald would never have taken off. Joe Joe is Barry on steroids. So, this seems to be a repetition of the 2016 elections, two years early. 

I suspect a structural break in the US, in someway if things get worse for the middle class. Vlad did attack in 2008, with Georgia, (Bish 43) and did attack Ukraine in 2014, Obama, and 2022 JoeJoe. The fascist republicans are your ideological enemy of choice darling.Now what you can do about them is another matter. This confirms my Great Internal Enemy mantra.

In any case we'll find out how Joe acquits himself with Vlad.  

-----Original Message-----
From: John Clark <johnk...@gmail.com>
To: spudb...@aol.com
Cc: everyth...@googlegroups.com <everyth...@googlegroups.com>; meeke...@gmail.com <meeke...@gmail.com>
Sent: Sat, Apr 16, 2022 11:34 am
Subject: Re: NYTimes.com: Don’t Just Freeze Russia’s Money. Seize It.

[spudb...@aol.com]

No, the Machine Intel's will enjoy it too. But how can I know they'll enjoy it? Golly. 

-----Original Message-----
From: Brent Meeker <meeke...@gmail.com>

To: John Clark <johnk...@gmail.com>; spudb...@aol.com
Cc: everyth...@googlegroups.com <everyth...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Sat, Apr 16, 2022 3:33 pm
Subject: Re: NYTimes.com: Don’t Just Freeze Russia’s Money. Seize It.

[John Clark]

On Sat, Apr 16, 2022 at 7:59 PM <spudb...@aol.com> wrote:

> Rather than deny my assertions you have reinforced them JC. Stalin cannot hurt you if one is Stalin.

Stalin cannot hurt you if Stalin is dead, and there can be no doubt that Stalin has reached thermal equilibrium with his environment. This dictator is no more. He has ceased to be. He's expired and gone to meet his maker. He's a stiff. Bereft of life, he rests in peace. He's pushing up the daisies. His metabolic processes are now history. He's kicked the bucket. He shuffled off this mortal coil, run down the curtain and joined the bleedin choir invisible! THIS IS AN EX-DICTATOR!!

 

> I would go so far as to say that sans, Barrack, Donald would never have taken off.

That's probably true, backlash put Donald in power because there were two things about Obama that most Republicans could never forgive, his skin was black, and there was a "D" next to his name not an "R".

John K Clark    See what's on my new list at  Extropolis

obf

[spudb...@aol.com]

I am asking Telmo to sort of give back with a short sense of what you feel and think about Sweden deciding to join NATO. This would include Finland as well, despite Putin's threats. This is an open placation so anyone can answer, but it'd be better than a Yank coughing out our ideologies. Anyone from the EU or anywhere else is sure welcome to give forth opinions on this. Where does this leave you and your family and friends? With regard to Putin, what do you need? 

Caveat: I will probably respond to your thoughts on all this, though I will try to do so respectfully, which will be a first for me. My reason is I feel I need a different perspective from people living closer to the fighting. Otherwise, please continue with quantum modal realism and if Alice & Bob teleport between London and Moscow, will they be arrested by the FSB? 

Thanks!

-----Original Message-----
From: John Clark <johnk...@gmail.com>
To: spudb...@aol.com
Cc: everyth...@googlegroups.com <everyth...@googlegroups.com>; meeke...@gmail.com <meeke...@gmail.com>
Sent: Sun, Apr 17, 2022 6:28 am
Subject: Re: NYTimes.com: Don’t Just Freeze Russia’s Money. Seize It.

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[Telmo Menezes]

Am So, 17. Apr 2022, um 16:17, schrieb spudboy100 via Everything List:

I am asking Telmo to sort of give back with a short sense of what you feel and think about Sweden deciding to join NATO. This would include Finland as well, despite Putin's threats. This is an open placation so anyone can answer, but it'd be better than a Yank coughing out our ideologies. Anyone from the EU or anywhere else is sure welcome to give forth opinions on this. Where does this leave you and your family and friends? With regard to Putin, what do you need? 

I'm not sure that my opinion matters, or if it is representative of anything, but here it goes:

I'm completely in favor of Sweden and Finland joining NATO. In fact, I always saw them as "de facto" members. They are both member states of the EU, so I believe that a direct aggression to any of these countries by Russia would mean direct military engagement of the west, NATO or no NATO. There's no way France, for example, would just stand buy and watch Putin bite a chunk out of the EU. And I believe Putin believes the same.

To be honest, until recently I assumed that Sweden and Finland were not NATO members for cultural reasons. Perhaps a certain Nordic sense of independence. I now realize that this was mostly an appeasement strategy toward Russia. In this case I am still in favor of them joining, because I do not believe anymore that Putin can be appeased.

To be honest, I am much more worried about Ukraine joining the EU hastily. It is a huge country and I suspect it is still quite far away from economic and even cultural alignment with the EU. I mean, let's be honest, they have a neonazi gang as an official government force (the Azov battalion). I believe that granting them membership to early could put the EU project under immense stress (of the sort already posed by Hungary, but to a much larger degree) -- this possibly combined with the perfect storm of the German economy collapsing in the face of the unavoidable step of suspending all gas imports from Russia and the possible election of Le Pen in France (which could mean that the EU would then have one of its most powerful member states working against its interests from the inside).

At the same time, perhaps this is just one of those moments were History will not wait and the only option is to rise to the occasion. It is also true that the EU seems to grow from each crisis it survives.

More generally, I think that all of us (the west), with all of our flaws, represent a way of life that is opposed by the powerful dictatorships of Russia and China. If we value and wish to protect this way of life, we must stick together and be smart.

Caveat: I will probably respond to your thoughts on all this, though I will try to do so respectfully, which will be a first for me. My reason is I feel I need a different perspective from people living closer to the fighting.

Of course.

I don't feel like I am "close to the fighting" in any way. There's still Poland between me and the war. I am living my perfectly normal life. Perhaps I just feel a bit more grateful than usual for this normalcy.

The only way in which I feel close to the events is by the presence of refugees in my neighborhood. Many cars with Ukrainian license plates around. A hotel around the corner from my house has been turned into a temporary refugee center. A lot of people donate food, clothes, etc. Some of them like to play table tennis with the locals in the park nearby.

Otherwise, please continue with quantum modal realism and if Alice & Bob teleport between London and Moscow, will they be arrested by the FSB? 

Yes and no. :)

Be well spud (and everyone else!)

T.

Thanks!

-----Original Message-----

From: John Clark <johnk...@gmail.com>

To: spudb...@aol.com

Cc: everyth...@googlegroups.com <everyth...@googlegroups.com>; meeke...@gmail.com <meeke...@gmail.com>

Sent: Sun, Apr 17, 2022 6:28 am

Subject: Re: NYTimes.com: Don’t Just Freeze Russia’s Money. Seize It.

On Sat, Apr 16, 2022 at 7:59 PM <spudb...@aol.com> wrote:

> Rather than deny my assertions you have reinforced them JC. Stalin cannot hurt you if one is Stalin.

Stalin cannot hurt you if Stalin is dead, and there can be no doubt that Stalin has reached thermal equilibrium with his environment. This dictator is no more. He has ceased to be. He's expired and gone to meet his maker. He's a stiff. Bereft of life, he rests in peace. He's pushing up the daisies. His metabolic processes are now history. He's kicked the bucket. He shuffled off this mortal coil, run down the curtain and joined the bleedin choir invisible! THIS IS AN EX-DICTATOR!!

 

> I would go so far as to say that sans, Barrack, Donald would never have taken off.

That's probably true, backlash put Donald in power because there were two things about Obama that most Republicans could never forgive, his skin was black, and there was a "D" next to his name not an "R".

John K Clark    See what's on my new list at  Extropolis

obf

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[Brent Meeker]

On 4/17/2022 9:09 AM, Telmo Menezes wrote:

Am So, 17. Apr 2022, um 16:17, schrieb spudboy100 via Everything List:

I am asking Telmo to sort of give back with a short sense of what you feel and think about Sweden deciding to join NATO. This would include Finland as well, despite Putin's threats. This is an open placation so anyone can answer, but it'd be better than a Yank coughing out our ideologies. Anyone from the EU or anywhere else is sure welcome to give forth opinions on this. Where does this leave you and your family and friends? With regard to Putin, what do you need? 

I'm not sure that my opinion matters, or if it is representative of anything, but here it goes:

I'm completely in favor of Sweden and Finland joining NATO. In fact, I always saw them as "de facto" members. They are both member states of the EU, so I believe that a direct aggression to any of these countries by Russia would mean direct military engagement of the west, NATO or no NATO. There's no way France, for example, would just stand buy and watch Putin bite a chunk out of the EU. And I believe Putin believes the same.

To be honest, until recently I assumed that Sweden and Finland were not NATO members for cultural reasons. Perhaps a certain Nordic sense of independence. I now realize that this was mostly an appeasement strategy toward Russia. In this case I am still in favor of them joining, because I do not believe anymore that Putin can be appeased.

I wonder if the Finns would like to take back the territory Russia took from them in the 1940 Winter War?

To be honest, I am much more worried about Ukraine joining the EU hastily. It is a huge country and I suspect it is still quite far away from economic and even cultural alignment with the EU. I mean, let's be honest, they have a neonazi gang as an official government force (the Azov battalion).

How is that consistent with electing a Jew president?  I realize the Jews in Ukraine were persecuted under Stalin and many emigrated to Israel when the USSR collapsed.  But is this neo-nazism real or is Putin's propaganda?

Brent

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/868ee864-9ec7-4443-987b-6396c0f13849%40www.fastmail.com.

[John Clark]

On Sun, Apr 17, 2022 at 9:17 PM Brent Meeker <meeke...@gmail.com> wrote:

>  is this neo-nazism real or is Putin's propaganda?

I'm sure there are neo-Nazis in Ukraine, there are plenty in the USA too. And for every American Nazi there are 10 that, if not out and out Nazis, are what I would diplomatically call "Nazi curious"; just look at QAnon and its doppelgänger the Republican party.  

John K Clark    See what's on my new list at  Extropolis

qnn

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[spudb...@aol.com]

Much thanks Telmo for your informative reply. At this level of society, for I suspect neither of us are "elites," it's important to trade information, scientific for sure, but also societal, too, as this Black Swan event that Putin started years ago, and made 10 X worse this February. 

Much thanks,

Mitch

https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/868ee864-9ec7-4443-987b-6396c0f13849%40www.fastmail.com

.

[spudb...@aol.com]

The Russian excuse has some truth of neonazis. Look up Ukraine-Bandera if anyone gets a chance?

The neonazis are large in Mother Russia as well.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/wagners-rusich-neo-nazi-attack-unit-hints-its-going-back-into-ukraine-undercover

There's neonazis in the US too, (Duh!) and have evidently volunteered to Russia and Ukraine to gain war experience to use back here!

https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2022/03/14/neo-nazi-ukraine-war/

Putin's excuse was goose steppers, but it's his exploitation of the weakness of the US, EU, everyone else, that generated his actions. 

Ok thanks all!

For this Rep Fascist (Rep-Fa?) I will goose step down to the supermarket to purchase some goods possibly imported from the 3rd world by imperialist forces. Maybe, I shall hum the Horst Wessel Lied while I get some more coffee pods? 

Meanwhile, lets all consider some ways to dodge Vlad's nukes as in brain power suggestions? We're supposed to be brainy? Let's be brainy enough to push against this existential problem. 

-----Original Message-----
From: Brent Meeker <meeke...@gmail.com>
To: everyth...@googlegroups.com

Sent: Sun, Apr 17, 2022 9:17 pm
Subject: Re: NYTimes.com: Don’t Just Freeze Russia’s Money. Seize It. "Come in Telmo! America to Telmo!!"

https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/544d57c1-a54c-5486-28a2-ca9218f55191%40gmail.com

.

[Telmo Menezes]

To be honest, until recently I assumed that Sweden and Finland were not NATO members for cultural reasons. Perhaps a certain Nordic sense of independence. I now realize that this was mostly an appeasement strategy toward Russia. In this case I am still in favor of them joining, because I do not believe anymore that Putin can be appeased.

I wonder if the Finns would like to take back the territory Russia took from them in the 1940 Winter War?

I don't know, but I have the impression that Finns tend to be pragmatic about such matters.

To be honest, I am much more worried about Ukraine joining the EU hastily. It is a huge country and I suspect it is still quite far away from economic and even cultural alignment with the EU. I mean, let's be honest, they have a neonazi gang as an official government force (the Azov battalion).

How is that consistent with electing a Jew president? I realize the Jews in Ukraine were persecuted under Stalin and many emigrated to Israel when the USSR collapsed.  But is this neo-nazism real or is Putin's propaganda?

It is obviously the case that there is no neonazi majority in Ukraine, or even close to that. As you say, the election of a Jew president makes it pretty obvious that Ukraine is not a nazi state. That much is Putin's propaganda. But it is also true that neonazis do exist, and that a neonazi military organization became an official state force in 2014. You can read all the details here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Azov_Battalion

I believe that the above Wikipedia article is well source and includes references to assessments by American intelligence on this matter.

I'm sure that Zalensky is not happy with the Azov Batallion and vice-versa, but for now they both have more pressing matters to worry about. If you want an even more absurd factoid: some weeks ago a Portuguese court agreed to allow a convicted Portuguese neonazi to travel to Ukraine to join the resistance (and it was clear he was in contact with neonazis in Ukraine, who are probably linked through international networks):

https://www.sabado.pt/portugal/detalhe/tribunal-autoriza-viagem-de-mario-machado-a-ucrania-por-situacao-humanitaria

I think there is some context here, that perhaps Americans do not fully appreciate (and apologies if you do): firstly, that the URSS created a narrative where nazis were all from the west, and that the peoples that were subsequently assimilated by the soviet space were completely innocent. Germans who were brought up in the RDA were indoctrinated to believe that west Germans were solely responsible for nazi crimes. On one hand, this remains to this day a divisive issue in German society (even though mostly present in the East). On the other hand, it seems to be paradoxically correlated with the appearance of neonazi movements in post-soviet spaces.

Another important subtly here is that what Putin and his regime means by "nazi" (and again, I believe this is inherited from the soviet perspective) is not exactly the same that the west means by "nazi". For Putin, the defining characteristic of a nazi is being anti-Russia, and when we accuses someone of "nationalism", what he refers to is to the desire of having a nation independent from Russia, which in his view is the only legitimate power in the region.

Telmo

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[Telmo Menezes]

Am Mo, 18. Apr 2022, um 13:29, schrieb spudb...@aol.com:

Much thanks Telmo for your informative reply. At this level of society, for I suspect neither of us are "elites," it's important to trade information, scientific for sure, but also societal, too,

I agree!

Telmo