Scriptural refutation of the Transhumanist Movement

[Samiya Illias]

Transhumanism

: aiming to create the god-self? 

https://signsandscience.blogspot.com/2022/06/transhumanism.html 

Transhumanism - II 

: Natural vs Artificial 

https://signsandscience.blogspot.com/2022/07/transhumanism-ii.html 

Transhumanism - III

 : bypassing the womb? 

https://signsandscience.blogspot.com/2022/07/transhumanism-iii.html 

Transhumanism - IV 

 : escaping death for a thousand years? 

https://signsandscience.blogspot.com/2022/07/transhumanism-iv.html

Transhumanism - V 

 : purposefully imperfect 

https://signsandscience.blogspot.com/2022/07/transhumanism-v.html 

[spudb...@aol.com]

I don't see refutation of by scriptures, of this new, Kuffar philosophy. For our age, it really has not predicted very well. In other words, it pleased some science fiction fans, but nobody in science slapping their foreheads and saying to themselves and exclaiming, "Why didn't I listen to Nick Bostrom, or, Max Moore! Not that they are bad guys, but they say the world at the time with accelerating computer prowess, changing the way people live in a huge way. 

My opinion is, so far, the great changes haven't occurred, and though technology advances, and we all need to be grateful for the advances we do get, it's not like like we are standing amazed at life before our eyes, in the streets of the world. 

My prediction is that we'll know life will become different if and when computers start making not just science breakthroughs in the laboratories, but new inventions actually, walk out of the laboratories into the streets. For example, since before the Kuffar WW2 the popular science magazines (not published for scientists but the common public), predicted that everyone would own a personal helicopter instead of a car. Considerable research, but nothing selling many on the Showroom floors. 

The only threat to Islam is IF the Transhumanist Predictions ever comes to pass?? Then, all bets are off as the nature of life would change. If this ever happens, it may be a long time from now. 

I sa, Let the Transhumanists prove their claims before we slowly, touch, the handles of our swords. For me, I like the guy's personally, and are NOT suspicious of them, and wish that they had more successes with technology, because this would save a lot of lives and people could live easier. Example, I would love it if our medicines would work fantastically better.We wouldn't have children dying in hospitals. A very worthy goal! Transhumanists want this. 

If you wish to risk the wrath of the Almighty and that's on you, you could read the science fiction novels of writer Frank Herbert. He was a newspaper writer and then a journalist and then an editor. He wrote about a distant future where humans had spread across the Milky Way and settled many living planets. While all this occurred, the religions of almost everyone separated and merged and changed over ten thousand years. Is it worth your soul? Naw, skip it, but Herbet did invoke a bit of Islamic history in his fiction books, and he never intended it ever to a religion itself!. The chief novel is DUNE. 

In any case, the books Do Not portray Muhammad as the Final Prophet, so its a waste of time for you, but a bit of good reading for the readers. Here are a few mentions. 

Religions of Dune Explained | Book Analysis

I think of it as, Lawrence of Arabia on Mars. Ten thousand years? Others of the Umah have read the books and written about. (shrug).

• Assemblies of Allah

• Zenshiite

• Sunislam

Fremen Religion

The Fremen religion was a religion widely practiced on Arrakis by the Fremen. The faith got formed on the ways of the Wandering Zensunni, the ancestors of the Fremen. Although the wandering Zensunni practiced a pacifistic religion, the Fremen followed survival and strength.

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[Lawrence Crowell]

This amounts to a refutation of silliness by what is preposterous.

LC

[John Clark]

On Sun, Jul 10, 2022 at 12:30 PM spudboy100 via Everything List <everyth...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

> I don't see refutation of by scriptures,

I don't see why anybody should care what the scriptures have to say about transhumanism given that they were written by members of a bronze age tribe who didn't even know where the sun went at night; transhumanism is about the physical world, how on Earth could anybody expect wisdom about that from them? 

 

John K Clark    See what's on my new list at  Extropolis

uzp

[Stathis Papaioannou]

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The problem with this is that most people interested in transhumanism firstly consider religious works such as the Quran to be false, and secondly consider them to be bad, in the sense that God is depicted as an unpleasant and fickle tyrant. You start off with the premise that the Quran is both true and good, so your arguments aren’t going to work with anyone who already rejects both those premises.

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Stathis Papaioannou

[spudb...@aol.com]

Transhumanism isn't even about real world. It's about speculation about the real world becoming more technologically advanced. Is this happening? We are seeing steady advances and even GPT-3 writing a paper about itself. But would we be struggling getting new energy systems off the ground and into the market if this were true? The deeply, traditional, religions see transhumanism as a threat, especially held by the elites. We can blame Dan Brown for that one. For most of us techno-nuts, the changes cannot come fast enough. 

My take in any case is that those Bronze Age cultures would have loved modern farming, clean drinking water, and air conditioning. Cars no, trains, yeah, airplanes naw.   

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[Samiya Illias]

Dhu al Qarnayn visited the Polar Regions? 

The story of Dhu al Qarnayn is briefly mentioned in Chapter 18 of the Qur’an, verses 83 – 98. The Qur’an mentions his name/title, and without going into the details of his person or his people,  informs us that he was established in power and had the means to all ends, and thus was able to travel everywhere on Earth.  

The verses about Dhu al Qarnayn’s travels have been variously interpreted, yet continue to perplex many Muslims. These verses have also been used by non-Muslims to point out factual inaccuracies in the Qur’an.  Based upon what we know of the polar regions of the Earth, I think that the first two travels were to the North and South Pole respectively. I’ve also attempted to understand the third travel. My reasoning is as follows: 

https://signsandscience.blogspot.com/2014/06/dhu-al-qarnayn-polar-regions-of-earth.html 

On 11-Jul-2022, at 2:17 AM, John Clark <johnk...@gmail.com> wrote:



[Samiya Illias]

The Torah & The Quran 

https://signsandscience.blogspot.com/2019/09/the-torah-quran.html 

Reading The Book 

https://signsandscience.blogspot.com/2020/05/reading-book.html 

Seventy Men & The Torah in Seventy Languages 

https://signsandscience.blogspot.com/2021/05/seventy-men-torah-in-seventy-languages.html 

The Destruction of The Masjid of Solomon 

https://signsandscience.blogspot.com/2021/05/the-destruction-of-masjid-of-solomon.html 

On 11-Jul-2022, at 2:43 AM, Stathis Papaioannou <stat...@gmail.com> wrote:



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[Samiya Illias]

The Mighty Ancients! 

https://signsandscience.blogspot.com/2015/01/the-mighty-ancients.html 

The Mighty Ancients (presentation) 

https://signsandscience.blogspot.com/2017/09/the-mighty-ancients-presentation.html 

On 11-Jul-2022, at 3:42 AM, spudb...@aol.com wrote:



[John Clark]

On Sun, Jul 10, 2022 at 6:42 PM <spudb...@aol.com> wrote:

> Transhumanism isn't even about real world. It's about speculation about the real world

And the New Testament, the Torah, the Quran, the Book of Mormon, the writings of L Ron Hubbard, and the authors of every other scientific ignoramus who wrote "Holy Scriptures" are unimaginative speculations about an unreal world.

John K Clark    See what's on my new list at  Extropolis

tbb

uzp

[Lawrence Crowell]

On Monday, July 11, 2022 at 4:53:42 AM UTC-5 johnk...@gmail.com wrote:

On Sun, Jul 10, 2022 at 6:42 PM <spudb...@aol.com> wrote:

> Transhumanism isn't even about real world. It's about speculation about the real world

And the New Testament, the Torah, the Quran, the Book of Mormon, the writings of L Ron Hubbard, and the authors of every other scientific ignoramus who wrote "Holy Scriptures" are unimaginative speculations about an unreal world.

John K Clark    See what's on my new list at  Extropolis

tbb

These things are mythic narratives.  As for travels and descriptions of places in the world, sure there were travelers who told of these places. This mentality is the antithesis of real thought. Bertrand Russel met Vladimir Ilyich Lenin and was struck by how Lenin could not talk outside the bounds of Marxist thinking. It was as if he was a prisoner of this ideology. Religion is similar, it is a "mind forged manacle" the imprisons the mind so it can not longer really think.

LC

[spudb...@aol.com]

Part of it for some is notion that one cannot offend the Guy upstairs, or invoke the wrath of one's fellows, whether a religion or ideology. 

My personal favorite dream after I win the lotto, would be to pay a physicist lots of money to come up with a scientifically plausible theory for God, the afterlife, & and everything. The writer would be given the option to write on the frontispiece: "Look, I believe this is bullshit, but I'm being paid lots of money to come up with this, so yeah, I sold out. I am a loyal atheist, and don't care much for people who waste their damn time thinking about a fantasy! But, I can find a good use for the cash he's paying me, sooooo, sue me!" 

In this manner, the physicist would be insulated from the wrath of his employer and colleagues. "So fire me, I could use the vacation time going to AAAS meetings, break my heart." 

I mean this would be like a super Templeton Prize, but more profitable. 

-----Original Message-----
From: Lawrence Crowell <goldenfield...@gmail.com>
To: Everything List <everyth...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Mon, Jul 11, 2022 11:23 am
Subject: Re: Scriptural refutation of the Transhumanist Movement

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[Brent Meeker]

On 7/11/2022 1:10 PM, spudboy100 via Everything List wrote:

Part of it for some is notion that one cannot offend the Guy upstairs, or invoke the wrath of one's fellows, whether a religion or ideology. 

My personal favorite dream after I win the lotto, would be to pay a physicist lots of money to come up with a scientifically plausible theory for God, the afterlife, & and everything.

If it's a theory for God it must include miracles, since that's sort of the defining power of God.  Once there are miracles the physics of the theory is complete.  Of course there's the ethical question of whether one should worship a God who's cruel and narcissistic, but that's not a question for a physicist, nor a problem for a Trumpist.

Brent

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[Samiya Illias]

Thunderbolts 

https://signsandscience.blogspot.com/2015/01/thunderbolts.html 

On 12-Jul-2022, at 1:11 AM, spudboy100 via Everything List <everyth...@googlegroups.com> wrote:



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[Lawrence Crowell]

Total rubbish. The electric universe stuff is pure garbage and zombie science.

LC

[spudb...@aol.com]

Well, speaking as a trumpist, I would say the 'human' pov is essential, and I would wholeheartedly agree with the suffering person, over the doctrinaire religious teachings, IF that suffering person would benefit by my pity? That is the questionable aspect, the IF??? For me, the afterlife-compensation belief may have some benefit for many, and I would claim it's even more effective IF based on the physics? This seems to work ok, for the atheist, as well as the religious, or even those of us flailing in between. For many others the "Apologist," writings may work? Maybe? For many more, not really. I am a pragmatist so if anything can help the sufferer, I am good with it.

https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/0c903fc6-01fe-fd32-6c69-40a8e835a0c7%40gmail.com

.

[Telmo Menezes]

I think that people who use the word "transhumanism" can say a lot of silly things, but I do not think that the idea is fundamentally silly. On the contrary, it is what makes the most sense to me.

Firstly, I would claim that technology already hijacked evolution. Biological evolution works at scales of time that are orders of magnitude larger than current human progress, and technology is reshaping our collective genome very fast and in several ways. I just read a piece of news the other day talking about how parents are starting to be able to choose the most healthy fetus in assisted reproduction(!) scenarios. A wealthy 80-year old can be kept in relatively good health by modern medicine and have children. C-Sections. Gene editing. Etc.

Culture is already totally enmeshed with machines. Recommendation algorithms learn our collective preferences (and addiction vulnerabilities) to optimize "user engagement", content creators attempt to please the algorithm and are guided by it, and there is an ongoing feedback loop between culture and algorithms that will end who knows where.

The other day I was being lazy lying in bed, and I contemplated the amount of devices and cables surrounding me, devices that have an increasing awareness of me and that connect me to a collective system. If you allow me to be a bit whimsical: the various cables almost felt like and external cardiovascular or nervous system, and every few years a new gadget occupies another one of my orifices or attaches to yet another one of my limbs. Sometimes the attachment doesn't take the first time (Google Glass), sometimes it quickly becomes quasi-permanent (Apple AirPods).

AI is now progressing fast, and it is increasingly obvious that it will eventually surpass us along all cognitive dimensions. Our only chance of survival is merging with our own creation, and transhumanism is already happening, from what I can observe.

Telmo

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[John Clark]

On Tue, Jul 12, 2022 at 3:30 PM spudboy100 via Everything List <everyth...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

> For me, the afterlife-compensation belief may have some benefit for many

Not if the afterlife includes hell, a place where an omniscient being will use all of His infinite power to inflict infinite pain on you for an infinite number of years and a place that can ONLY be avoided if you have lived a perfect life. I have a great deal of difficulty understanding why an infinitely intelligent being would want to do that. But I find it remarkably easy to understand why a human being, like a Christian priest or shaman of some other religious franchise that claims to have God's cell number and email address, would invent such an idea, he concocted eternal damnation because it increased the likelihood he will be able to convince other humans to do what he wants them to do.  And priests, pastors, mullahs and all other sorts of conmen like power.

John K Clark    See what's on my new list at  Extropolis

leh

[Lawrence Crowell]

The idea of afterlife is a sort of pigeon drop. That is a scam where a person is convinced that by putting up 10% of the value of something in earnest money they will get a huge windfall. In the case of religion the reward is eternity, after death or the passing of this world, which cannot be substantiated. It also involves the threat that if a person does not put up their earnest "money," or declare faith they will suffer eternal punishment. It is the ultimate scam. The scam has played well for centuries, and both Christianity and Islam are eschatological fraudulent schemes.

LC

[Brent Meeker]

On 7/13/2022 6:54 AM, John Clark wrote:

On Tue, Jul 12, 2022 at 3:30 PM spudboy100 via Everything List <everyth...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

> For me, the afterlife-compensation belief may have some benefit for many

Not if the afterlife includes hell, a place where an omniscient being will use all of His infinite power to inflict infinite pain on you for an infinite number of years and a place that can ONLY be avoided if you have lived a perfect life.

I see, John, you have been misled by your generous and empathetic nature.  Hell is of great benefit to the many; as the many all imagine their enemies going there.  And the many emphatically point this out to any who be their enemy.

Brent

[Brent Meeker]

"It's an incredible con job when you think of it, to believe something now in exchange for life after death. Even corporations with all their reward systems don't try to make it posthumous."
    ---- Gloria Steinem, women's rights activist

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[spudb...@aol.com]

Yeah. Many religious people will be grossly disappointed in God if they find out that the Super Mind decides to chuck it in the fuck bucket. But that's their look out, JC. For me, I something think about religious traditions of a heavenly court, delegated by the big guy, not really to judge, but to evaluate ;-)  It kind of is focused on what the Big Brain is pursuing? Helping with other flavors of creation, or building better, smarter minds then us. I mean who knows? We could ask you what you plan to do in the 22nd century when you get restored? 

I agree with you on the power trip which seems obvious, but they ain't the only ones. However they do love to pretend they got the keys to the kingdom. 

-----Original Message-----
From: John Clark <johnk...@gmail.com>
To: 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List <everyth...@googlegroups.com>

Cc: meeke...@gmail.com <meeke...@gmail.com>
Sent: Wed, Jul 13, 2022 9:54 am
Subject: Re: Scriptural refutation of the Transhumanist Movement

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.

[spudb...@aol.com]

The big tip off is the threat of eternal doom, indeed. The afterlife thing is inspired by somebody thinking about the wrongness of tragedies and the inability to do something about it. So, a big fix is in order whether its belief in the Giant Spaghetti Monster, or something a bit more cosmological. Also LC, the psycho-social benefits for many if not most cannot be disputed.

https://neurosciencenews.com/spirituality-health-21025/

Beyond all that, Heaven my simply be a future goal for the species? If the data is accessible, so are we. That tweet bird who croaked yesterday, and that dimetrodon who couldn't handle the air pollution from the volcanoes 254 years ago. It would be the greatest data recovery project in our history and me thinks, a worthy goal. No, not everyone must join in to be saved! Sally forth with your projects and you'll serve the common good. Atheism is no show stopper, and re-creating brainy people sounds nice. 

I'd like to go with futurist Aleksey Turchin and his use of a Dyson Sphere for resurrection as well as a nice bit of real estate for the "young folks." Yeah, it bores you to tears, but intrigues this American peasant. Heck, it even looks like a Christmas ornament, an expensive one.

Ho Ho Ho -Spud

-----Original Message-----
From: Lawrence Crowell <goldenfield...@gmail.com>
To: Everything List <everyth...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Wed, Jul 13, 2022 3:22 pm
Subject: Re: Scriptural refutation of the Transhumanist Movement

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