NYTimes.com: Don’t Just Freeze Russia’s Money. Seize It.

[John Clark]

Check out this article from The New York Times. Because I'm a subscriber, you'll be able to read it for free.

Don’t Just Freeze Russia’s Money. Seize It.

It’s the only way to signal that the United States is committed to making even the world’s most powerful states pay for their war crimes.

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/04/15/opinion/russia-war-currency-reserves.html?unlocked_article_code=AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAACEIPuomT1JKd6J17Vw1cRCfTTMQmqxCdw_PIxftm3iWka3DJDm8fiOMNAo6B_EGKf7d4fNo6miuSXppKLaU1Sfp536pFMldgURelud2EhJEBaW0TmL6EY1kXjdjLTKxqtnjjdHW4I-Nyg7eytB_fOja9RKPbhHM-IF02o49ufAr7xSELxKvEQrMk2YR0iOwzRcwvHUd2byaPt_DpCxh1KY_GOkmasl9qLrkfDTLDntec6KYCdRFRDT_FTXB-6GU77rBMKY9dffa_f1N7Jp2I0fhGAXdoLYypG5Q2W4DT8r1ourTHohCJo9GkyEIMCVVHmGBQyxLkSXx75Q&smid=em-share

[Lawrence Crowell]

Well at this time freezing assets means there is a carrot with the stick. If you seize then you trade the carrot for another stick. The one leverage is to squeeze the oligarchs who support Putin, which might make them change government and remove him from office.

LC

[smitra]

Thanks!

I've replied in the discussion there:

https://nyti.ms/37ksmBP#permid=117856107

Saibal

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[Brent Meeker]

I think the way it should work is that the International Court should award compensation to Ukraine from Russia and those Russian funds seized by the US and other nations would be transferred to Ukrainie per the court order.  This makes it clear that international law is in effect, not just that the US is acting as a party in the war.

Brent

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[John Clark]

On Fri, Apr 15, 2022 at 2:39 PM Brent Meeker <meeke...@gmail.com> wrote:

> I think the way it should work is that the International Court should award compensation to Ukraine from Russia and those Russian funds seized by the US and other nations would be transferred to Ukrainie per the court order. 

I don't see how that could work. The UN's International Court was set up to "bring to justice the perpetrators of the worst crimes known to humankind, war crimes, crimes against humanity, and genocide". The problem is 123 countries have recognized the authority of the International Court, but neither Russia, nor the USA has. And India, China, and Israel are also not in that group of 123.

John K Clark    See what's on my new list at  Extropolis

ciu

[spudb...@aol.com]

To prosecute him, how are we going to catch him? Not everyone on earth thinks like Soros, or Klaus Schwab (WEF). The Russian people are not yet revolting against Vlad, meaning they like the guy. Just like nobody is yet pushing Joe out of office, to be turned over to Amsterdam. 

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[Brent Meeker]

Is there anything to prevent the US from recognizing it tomorrow?  And most of the EU countries have recognized the IC and they have seized Russian assets.

Brent

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[John Clark]

On Fri, Apr 15, 2022 at 10:38 PM Brent Meeker <meeke...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Is there anything to prevent the US from recognizing it [the world court] tomorrow? 

Yes, Republicans. Thanks to the filibuster there's not a snowball's chance in hell of it getting confirmed by the US Senate. Maybe if we're lucky in a few years we'll have a less fascist Senate and they will confirm it, but Ukraine can't wait for distant elections and a long drawn out trial in the world court, it needs that money right now to survive, and Biden has the executive power to seize that Russian money and give it to Ukraine anytime he wishes.

 John K Clark    See what's on my new list at  Extropolis

umt

[spudb...@aol.com]

I am guessing that you believe taking the man's overseas goodies will being him to obey? So, when it doesn't work who will the IC send to spank Vlad's pee-pee, somebody in a blue helmet and a warrant? Golly, that may not work either! Do you possess any evidence that this will work? So, the search goes forward for practical, real world things that might give the Russians and their fearless leader a motivation to withdraw and cease aggression. Good luck to us all. 

https://thebulletin.org/2022/04/poll-russias-nuclear-saber-rattling-is-rattling-neighbors-nerves/

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/1ce7e365-d9c6-6b77-6bb9-53d407bb0bad%40gmail.com.

[spudb...@aol.com]

Economically Fascism is Fascism whoever is in power. I mean specifically rule by the rich, Plutocracy, as in Crony Capitalism, be it Military contractors, or Woke Corporation$, just follow the campaign donations. 

Oligarchy-

https://www.businessinsider.com/major-study-finds-that-the-us-is-an-oligarchy-2014-4

Plutocracy-

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/plutocracy

Politicians-

https://www.npr.org/sections/itsallpolitics/2015/02/18/387125444/why-congress-doesnt-really-worry-about-what-most-americans-think

Crony Capitalism-

https://www.economist.com/finance-and-economics/2022/03/12/our-crony-capitalism-index-offers-a-window-into-russias-billionaire-wealth

I have no fix for this issue, but we ain't a democracy or a republic and maybe have been since...1865? On one hand we're less free with a plutocracy. On the other hand, when we were a republic, we did slavery (millions killed), the wars against Native Americans, against Irish, Chinese, and Mexicans. Perhaps a nuanced? If so we can go with Orson Welles last comment in Graham Greene's The Third Man. 

(12 seconds)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cydkTy6GmFA

In any case we may not have the time to correct this once, republic, because I concerned about the existential threat from Putin, and Xi. 

But that is just me, for the team here, continue with quantum modalism or whether eternal inflation promotes or negates this? Good for cerebrum, maybe not the amygdala? 

-----Original Message-----
From: John Clark <johnk...@gmail.com>
To: 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List <everyth...@googlegroups.com>

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[John Clark]

On Sat, Apr 16, 2022 at 10:16 AM spudboy100 via Everything List <everyth...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

> I am guessing that you believe taking the man's overseas goodies will being him to obey?

I believe that $100 billion would help Ukraine one hell of a lot in defending itself against the war of aggression instigated by Donald Trump's best friend. The fact that Putin's money would be used to thwart Putin's obscene ambitions is just a nice bonus.

John K Clark    See what's on my new list at  Extropolis

uuc

[John Clark]

On Sat, Apr 16, 2022 at 10:43 AM <spudb...@aol.com> wrote:

> Economically Fascism is Fascism whoever is in power. I mean specifically rule by the rich, Plutocracy,

And that's why you want to put a billionaire plutocrat fascist back in power, and not just any old billionaire plutocrat fascist, but a billionaire plutocrat fascist that has been proven to be notoriously erratic and moody.

John K Clark    See what's on my new list at  Extropolis

wt0

[spudb...@aol.com]

That's a big IF, so hopefully the cash will go into more Javelin's for Vlad's armor. 

-----Original Message-----
From: John Clark <johnk...@gmail.com>
To: 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List <everyth...@googlegroups.com>

Cc: meeke...@gmail.com <meeke...@gmail.com>
Sent: Sat, Apr 16, 2022 11:43 am
Subject: Re: NYTimes.com: Don’t Just Freeze Russia’s Money. Seize It.

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[spudb...@aol.com]

You are notoriously erratic and moody! I liked some of the things Trump did, I was so-so on other things. I'm a hard guy to please. I did love his comedic timing when he did his spiels at rallies. Best comic warm ups in the US. For me, all I need is for the elites to finally go into survival mode and do things logically. 

Joey and the US elites wanted to save the earth last year without throwing enough R&D cash to build up renewables, and this they didn't do. Joe wasn't the worst politician in all this mess on energy and Putin. I'd put the spotlight on Merkel, the chancellor for 16 years and a physicist, yet! In any case Joe has just done an error correction. 

https://news.yahoo.com/u-resume-oil-gas-drilling-225302772.html

So, he has been forced to jump, like we all have by Vlad's reign of terror. He and his team have been forced to act rationally as opposed to ideologically in advance of the 22 election, and to supply Germany with  Putin's gas off their diet. 

We'll see?

-----Original Message-----
From: John Clark <johnk...@gmail.com>
To: spudb...@aol.com
Cc: everyth...@googlegroups.com <everyth...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Sat, Apr 16, 2022 11:52 am
Subject: Re: NYTimes.com: Don’t Just Freeze Russia’s Money. Seize It.

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[John Clark]

On Sat, Apr 16, 2022 at 8:16 PM <spudb...@aol.com> wrote:

> You are notoriously erratic and moody!

No I'm not! .... Well OK maybe I am.... No I'm not!

> I liked some of the things Trump did, I was so-so on other things. I'm a hard guy to please. I did love his comedic timing

TO HELL WITH COMEDIC TIMING!! I'm talking about the cause of the Fermi Paradox while you're talking about the silly comedy routine of a man who has control of thousands of Thermonuclear bombs and on a whim could kill you, and everybody you know, and civilization, in the next 20 minutes. Volodymyr Zelenskyy was a professional comedian but when Russia invaded his country he knew it was time to get serious, and so he will always be remembered as more like Winston Churchill than Jerry Lewis. Can you imagine Captain Bonespurs refusing to run away and deciding to risk his life by fighting for his country as Zelenskyy has done? I can't.

John K Clark    See what's on my new list at  Extropolis

cbs

[spudb...@aol.com]

I do remember that when Capn' Bonespurs back in 2018, John, did conflict with Putin's troops, when they were hired in as mercs for Assad in Syria, (Wagner), and the US was ordered to fight back in force. We won that battle! Please review at your leisure.

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/24/world/middleeast/american-commandos-russian-mercenaries-syria.html

https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-reportedly-bragged-about-a-classified-battle-in-syria-2018-5

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/feb/13/russian-mercenaries-killed-us-airstrikes-syria

The obvious conclusion JC is that no, Capn' Bonespurs did NOT back away from Putin's Bullying, but that Biden, Obama, and Yes, Bush43 did. JC if you won't give the devil his due, one ignores that capabilities of one's enemies. Yes, avoiding a burgeoning nuclear holocaust is understandable, back then, and today. This was behind my ugly idea of having the Russians re-nuke Cuba or Cub-er as Kennedy said. Probably a crazy-bad idea, but it was giving Vlad the Impaler an out with the Russian people. Yes, there are downsides to this, like what if Putin starts up again and there's hypersonics in Cub-er? My thought is we're just as dead anyway and as long as we can successfully retaliate, what difference does it make, as Mama Clinton once uttered? 

May the Easter Donald not haunt your dreams as he does with every democrat! Amen. 

-----Original Message-----
From: John Clark <johnk...@gmail.com>
To: spudb...@aol.com
Cc: everyth...@googlegroups.com <everyth...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Sun, Apr 17, 2022 6:03 am
Subject: Re: NYTimes.com: Don’t Just Freeze Russia’s Money. Seize It.

[John Clark]

Spud, do you even read the links you post with such abandon? Your first link refers to an article in the New York Times, a newspaper that you claimed the day before was absolutely terrible. And the next two links just referred back to the New York Times article and parroted what it said.  And Spud, in the past month Biden has given Ukraine thousands of Javelin missiles and did so with no strings attached; but when Volodymyr Zelenskyy begged Trump to give him a few Javelins Trump said he would but he needed Zelenskyy to "do him a favor" first, he needed him to publicly announce that he was starting an investigation of one of Trump's political opponents, he didn't actually have to do any investigating, he just had to announce he was going to do so and say it publicly. You said you don't like corrupt politicians so why the hell do you like Trump, is "comic timing" really that important to you?!  

> May the Easter Donald not haunt your dreams

Unfortunately until the man assumes room temperature there is no chance of that.  

John K Clark    See what's on my new list at  Extropolis

rtt

[spudb...@aol.com]

Biden gave 1000's of Javs to the Ukrainians but there was no Ukraine invasion under Trumpy. Vlad looked at Biden's withdrawal in Afghanistan, and was able to conjure up a weakling policy that offered a real opportunity. It's like with the Nazis, they couldn't do WW2 in 1935 when the remilitarized the Rhineland, but hadn't the weaponry ready to face down Chamberlain in 1938, and sign the Non-Aggression Pact on August 23rd, 1939, and both Stalin and Adolf invaded Poland in September. This, which is easy to do, is Vlad's model of action in the Ukraine. It is also the history of wars and imperialism down the centuries, so Adolf was no rarity, sad to note. 

If you are so gainful of Trumpo being Bad-O, then acknowledge the dealings tween a Rus oligarch for 3.5 mil US, and the endless flow of Cash from Xi to the Bidens?

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/unraveling-the-tale-of-hunter-biden-and-2435-million-from-russia/ar-AAVZq4Y

You are now right to ask this: Were both Trumpo and Joey using his family as bag persons from Putin and Xi to them? For now, unless you come up with some evidence, the focus is all on Hunter and Joe's brother, currently. Corruption is always possible with any leader, though less motivation for Donny. 

Please make note, I am not looking for perfectly honest, honorable people in office. Just, less of leaders that mess with our lives and don't let the rich rule us all. This is my goal then, the 2019 Project, a paean to the Bourgeoisie of the world, you have only the stranglehold of the Uber Rich to lose, comrades! At the barricades!

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[John Clark]

On Wed, Apr 20, 2022 at 6:26 PM <spudb...@aol.com> wrote:

> Biden gave 1000's of Javs to the Ukrainians

Yes, and unlike Trump Biden did it without demanding that the Ukrainian president "do me a favor"  before he got any Javelins so Ukraine could defend itself from Russia. Trump insisted that Zelenskyy dig up dirt on his political opponent, or rather PUBLICLY announce that he was going to dig up dirt on his political opponent; Trump made it clear there was no need for Ukraine to actual do any investigation, just an announcement would be sufficient provided it was done publicly.

> but there was no Ukraine invasion under Trumpy.

Bullshit! The Russo-Ukrainian War started in 2014 when Russia invaded Crimea and the Donetsk region, both are parts of Ukraine. Ukraine resisted with force, since then it had been a low intensity war, about one Ukrainian was killed by a Russian soldier every three days, and Russia has been relentless in its cyber attacks on Ukraine. The war went into high gear when Russia invaded all of Ukraine on February 24, 2022,  and the death toll jumped to the tens of thousands of Ukrainian dead, and not just soldiers, civilians too. And yet TO THIS DAY Trump has refused to criticize his buddy Vladimir Putin, in fact even AFTER  February 24 he called Putin a "genius" and "savy" for having invaded Ukraine. Maybe when Trump focuses his very dim mind on Putin he does seem like a genius by comparison, but when anybody of even average intelligence looks at Putin and his February 24 decision all he sees is a dumbass.  

 

> Vlad looked at Biden's withdrawal in Afghanistan, and was able to conjure up a weakling policy that offered a real opportunity.

Trump had long publicly advocated that the US get out of Afghanistan, but even after being president for 4 years he never had the guts to actually do it because he knew there is just no getting around the fact that when you officially lose a war it looks very bad, so he decided to let his successor clean up the mess.  

Spud, I just don't understand why you and other members of Trump's cult of personality feel it is their sacred duty to twist themselves into logical and ethical contortions to defend everything that their guru does and says. Is Trump's "comic timing" really THAT good? 

John K Clark    See what's on my new list at  Extropolis

tct

r

[spudb...@aol.com]

Last, first, JC. There were things about him that I liked immediately. He was asked by a reporter from NBC when he announced his campaign in 2015, about money buying politicians. He replied, "You give them money they'll do whatever you want." That blunt honesty was amazing for me, because it explained everything that happened in DC for decades. He was so refreshing compared to racist, self righteous, Obama, that clicked for me. It also give word, flesh, as related to the Princeton study of 2014.

https://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-echochambers-27074746

I never expected him to do as well as he did with unemployment, The Border, the middle east, after everyone told him no way. He did shoot his mouth off with tweets but was good at hitting back against the dems who simply are good with a dictatorship as long as it doesn't affect them personally via inflation, employment, crime, freedom of speech. 

On your points, yes Trumpo loved to squeeze back on what he considered America getting screwed.

He thought we should have taken over and sold Iraqi oil under Bush43 for compensation for getting rid of Saddam.

He bitched at and called out Merkel who for 16 years made pals with Putin by buying his gas and funding his military. 

The Ukrainians are no saints and neither are the Bidens, taking bribes from the Ukraine, Russia, and China, with Hunter and Joe's brother being the bag men. Hunter does have a preference for expensive prostitutes but this is a remark on my part, not a condemnation. On Trump and Putin, Trump always tried to butter Vlad's ass in order (my assessment) to keep the door open and not as Khrushchev said during the Cuban Missile Crisis "to tie the knot tighter." 

The Afghanistan thing was always with the Taliban, a nuanced deal. He could go, but not without an observed, cessation of violence. Example, is that Trump ok'd the bombing of Putin's mercenaries in Syria when they were attacking. 

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/24/world/middleeast/american-commandos-russian-mercenaries-syria.html

https://www.newsweek.com/total-f-russian-mercenaries-syria-lament-us-strike-killed-dozens-818073

So, JC, your characterization of Orangey as a Putin puppet is disproven by Trumpo's actions. Biden, well, I suspect that he took orders on foreign policy directly from Obama regarding the debacle in Afghanistan 2021, and the failed Ayatollah nuke deal, which will likely cause nuclear war, tween the holy ayatollahs and Israel. Some scientists say that even a small nuke war would cause nuclear winter, so we may find this out? 

https://www.axios.com/leaked-document-reveals-bidens-afghan-failures-c27d790c-3a50-4734-8543-7db710898bb2.html

https://www.cnn.com/2021/04/14/politics/biden-overrules-advisers-afghanistan-withdrawal/index.html

Don's digs were sometimes really funny, but the main reason is that I felt if Comrade Xi or Putin attacked, Donny would retaliate. For your peeps, not so much. Witness-

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-nuclear-usa-announcement/obama-limits-u-s-use-of-nuclear-arms-idUSTRE6352YK20100406

https://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/06/world/06arms.html

Then, later on overseas..

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/global-opinions/allies-unite-to-block-an-obama-legacy/2016/08/14/cdb8d8e4-60b9-11e6-8e45-477372e89d78_story.html

Thus, is a world filled with people who want to get to heaven over our dead bodies, or see nothing beyond the limits of their party ideology, the dems ain't making it! On your team, even though you'll wince at this, I could see me supporting Manchin on energy over zero availability of mass solar that the dems keep promising without doing, or Tulsi Gabbard who would strike back against Xi, Putin, or some other nazi?

For El Donaldo, he keeps yakking about stolen elections, and I keep asking where's the evidence? If the courts won't hear it the public still could! This depends only if Ballot Harvesting was corrupt and was just a way of Ballot Box Box Tammany Hall 19th century Fraud??

Donaldo is not my 1st choice for 24, by the way...

-----Original Message-----
From: John Clark <johnk...@gmail.com>
To: spudb...@aol.com
Cc: everyth...@googlegroups.com <everyth...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Thu, Apr 21, 2022 6:11 am
Subject: Re: NYTimes.com: Don’t Just Freeze Russia’s Money. Seize It.

[John Clark]

On Thu, Apr 21, 2022 at 12:45 PM <spudb...@aol.com> wrote:

> I never expected him [Trump] to do as well as he did with unemployment,

Under the presidency of Joe Biden unemployment is now at its lowest point since 1969.  

> The Ukrainians are no saints and neither are the Bidens

But the Russians and Donald Trump are as pure as freshly driven snow. How else could Trump have made a "perfect phone call" like the time he demanded the Ukrainian president help him smear Trump's political opponent if he wanted the weapons needed to defend his country from the Russians?

> So, JC, your characterization of Orangey as a Putin puppet is disproven by Trumpo's actions.

Then why, to this very day, Trump has never criticized Putin, not even after his barbaric invasion of Ukraine that has already killed tens of thousands if not hundreds of thousands of people and will undoubtedly kill many more before it's over? Why did Trump say Putin was a "genius" and "savvy" for invading Ukraine?  

> He [Trump] thought we should have taken over and sold Iraqi oil under Bush43 for compensation for getting rid of Saddam.

And he foolishly thought, and apparently you do too, that such an idiotic policy could be maintained indefinitely without shedding oceans of blood from American soldiers.

> Donaldo is not my 1st choice for 24, by the way...

So you must've found somebody even stupider, even more xenophobic and nationalistic, and even more contemptuous of democracy and the US Constitution than Trump. I congratulate you, finding such a person would not be easy.

John K Clark    See what's on my new list at  Extropolis

ewt

[spudb...@aol.com]

Responsa.

Donny did send the mils against Russian mercs hired by Putin for Wagner in Syria. What had Obama or Joe Joe done?

Obama, and Bush43, said nothing when Putin went in Georgia in 2008, or the Ukraine in 2014. What help did he ever offer? Moreover Obo showed great weakness via his lying about the 9-11-12 attack in Libya and blamed it on a Youtube video, when intelligence groups identified the plan by al qaeda. Obo refused the pentagon request to counter attack. 

For employment, consider that whatever good is driven out by inflation. An inflation first initiated by Joe & Elizabeth Warren's anti drilling policies in started in jan 2021. Not only using executive orders, but the bureau of land management to ensure this energy starvation got carried out. I am sure Putin took notice of this deliberate weakness and it spurred his financing for war. I have since ready that Joey has rescinded some of these? Time will tell.  

Bush 43, 'Job well done,' was a deliberate distraction from his deciding to let Osama go, because it caused fear in Saudi. Afghanistan was different as Osama and the leader of the Taliban literally had daughter and son marry to seal the agreement. Kerry '04' as prez,  would have surrendered to the Taliban. Note, Joey actually did in July 2021 with his withdrawal debacle. 

For anti constitutional actions I need look no further than the conspiracy of dem party corporate funders, academics, politicians, executive branch employees to identify their opposition to the 10 amendments. It's all about power with them, and so opposition to the "party" is termed anti-democratic. Now this is funny coming from the most censorious group in North America. 

For more of The Donald, please look for his epistles on Rumble, where you can see and hear his ululations there. Catch you there!

-----Original Message-----
From: John Clark <johnk...@gmail.com>
To: spudb...@aol.com
Cc: everyth...@googlegroups.com <everyth...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Sun, Apr 24, 2022 7:40 am
Subject: Re: NYTimes.com: Don’t Just Freeze Russia’s Money. Seize It.

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