Unspoken Reasons for Russio-Ukraine War: An Unawakened Consciousness Problem

[Lawrence Crowell]

It is amazing the depth of nonsense, rot and trash in this thread. This is an indication of how utterly worthless religion is when it comes to understanding even the most minimal of things.

There is a basic reason why Putin ordered the invasion of Ukraine. He and his cronies have stolen everything they can steal. It is similar to the Argentine strongman Gaultier, who with his cronies had looted the Argentine economy to the bone. So to distract public attention away from their crimes Gaultier decided that taking the Falklands from Britain was a great idea. A victory of that sort would buoy up his standing and ..., yeah it did not work. Putin's invasion of Ukraine was meant to do just the same, and the outcome does not look too different.

The fall of the Soviet Union did not displace people in charge. All they did was to tear up their communist party cards, and the commissars of various industries declared themselves capitalists and owners. They became the oligarchs of Russia and these gangsters have been plundering Russia ever since. The Russian economy has barely muddled along for the last 3 decades. Putin is probably the second most wealthy man in the world.

Please folks, knock off the religious rubbish. I see absolutely no reason to think there exist any form of disembodied conscious agent. This is whether it is YHVH, Jesus, Allah, Vishnu, or ..., including angels, demons, demiurges, spirits or immortal souls that exists in some nonphysical form. This is not about being pagan as Ben has it; no I do not believe in that crap either,

LC

 

[Alan Grayson]

On Sunday, May 22, 2022 at 4:44:37 PM UTC-6 Lawrence Crowell wrote:

It is amazing the depth of nonsense, rot and trash in this thread. This is an indication of how utterly worthless religion is when it comes to understanding even the most minimal of things.

There is a basic reason why Putin ordered the invasion of Ukraine. He and his cronies have stolen everything they can steal. It is similar to the Argentine strongman Gaultier, who with his cronies had looted the Argentine economy to the bone. So to distract public attention away from their crimes Gaultier decided that taking the Falklands from Britain was a great idea. A victory of that sort would buoy up his standing and ..., yeah it did not work. Putin's invasion of Ukraine was meant to do just the same, and the outcome does not look too different.

The fall of the Soviet Union did not displace people in charge. All they did was to tear up their communist party cards, and the commissars of various industries declared themselves capitalists and owners. They became the oligarchs of Russia and these gangsters have been plundering Russia ever since. The Russian economy has barely muddled along for the last 3 decades. Putin is probably the second most wealthy man in the world.

Please folks, knock off the religious rubbish. I see absolutely no reason to think there exist any form of disembodied conscious agent.

I wholeheartedly agree with your points in this post. However, on one point you really must accept a huge deficiency. Ask yourself how there is anything in the universe that knows anything.  AG

[Brent Meeker]

On 5/22/2022 7:10 PM, Alan Grayson wrote:

On Sunday, May 22, 2022 at 4:44:37 PM UTC-6 Lawrence Crowell wrote:

It is amazing the depth of nonsense, rot and trash in this thread. This is an indication of how utterly worthless religion is when it comes to understanding even the most minimal of things.

There is a basic reason why Putin ordered the invasion of Ukraine. He and his cronies have stolen everything they can steal. It is similar to the Argentine strongman Gaultier, who with his cronies had looted the Argentine economy to the bone. So to distract public attention away from their crimes Gaultier decided that taking the Falklands from Britain was a great idea. A victory of that sort would buoy up his standing and ..., yeah it did not work. Putin's invasion of Ukraine was meant to do just the same, and the outcome does not look too different.

The fall of the Soviet Union did not displace people in charge. All they did was to tear up their communist party cards, and the commissars of various industries declared themselves capitalists and owners. They became the oligarchs of Russia and these gangsters have been plundering Russia ever since. The Russian economy has barely muddled along for the last 3 decades. Putin is probably the second most wealthy man in the world.

Please folks, knock off the religious rubbish. I see absolutely no reason to think there exist any form of disembodied conscious agent.

I wholeheartedly agree with your points in this post. However, on one point you really must accept a huge deficiency. Ask yourself how there is anything in the universe that knows anything.  AG

It evolved.  It turns out that knowing stuff improves the chance of being naturally selected to reproduce.

This is whether it is YHVH, Jesus, Allah, Vishnu, or ..., including angels, demons, demiurges, spirits or immortal souls that exists in some nonphysical form. This is not about being pagan as Ben has it; no I do not believe in that crap either,

LC

 

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[spudb...@aol.com]

For most scientists and especially physicists, "God," just gets in the way. There's a Buddha quote that goes, "If you are on your path through the forest, and the Buddha stands in your way, strike him down." Meaning, in my interpretation :-) that if you have a better way, don't let me stop you. So scientists, especially physicists and astronomers need to be able to pursue knowledge Deity-free! Sean Carroll don't like it, You don't, nor, do most of the worthies here. Some people like to make scrambled eggs with cream, others use just water, and some add other ingredients. 

On da Udder hand, said da Cozmic Cow, dere iz dis-

2104.03902.pdf (arxiv.org)

I don't view Alexander or Smolin or Lanier as scientific light weights, and for me, this is enjoyably, provocative. One takeaway from this paper is that, physicists and astronomers would then be the "holiest' people there are, because they study the divine mind directly..holy...holy...holy cannoli's!!! Ha!

Anyway, its a thought. 

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[Alan Grayson]

On Sunday, May 22, 2022 at 8:25:32 PM UTC-6 meeke...@gmail.com wrote:

On 5/22/2022 7:10 PM, Alan Grayson wrote:

On Sunday, May 22, 2022 at 4:44:37 PM UTC-6 Lawrence Crowell wrote:

It is amazing the depth of nonsense, rot and trash in this thread. This is an indication of how utterly worthless religion is when it comes to understanding even the most minimal of things.

There is a basic reason why Putin ordered the invasion of Ukraine. He and his cronies have stolen everything they can steal. It is similar to the Argentine strongman Gaultier, who with his cronies had looted the Argentine economy to the bone. So to distract public attention away from their crimes Gaultier decided that taking the Falklands from Britain was a great idea. A victory of that sort would buoy up his standing and ..., yeah it did not work. Putin's invasion of Ukraine was meant to do just the same, and the outcome does not look too different.

The fall of the Soviet Union did not displace people in charge. All they did was to tear up their communist party cards, and the commissars of various industries declared themselves capitalists and owners. They became the oligarchs of Russia and these gangsters have been plundering Russia ever since. The Russian economy has barely muddled along for the last 3 decades. Putin is probably the second most wealthy man in the world.

Please folks, knock off the religious rubbish. I see absolutely no reason to think there exist any form of disembodied conscious agent.

I wholeheartedly agree with your points in this post. However, on one point you really must accept a huge deficiency. Ask yourself how there is anything in the universe that knows anything.  AG

It evolved.  It turns out that knowing stuff improves the chance of being naturally selected to reproduce.

Sure, but what is the origin of the self-reflective function of mind or consciousness? AG 

[Brent Meeker]

On 5/23/2022 6:20 AM, Alan Grayson wrote:

On Sunday, May 22, 2022 at 8:25:32 PM UTC-6 meeke...@gmail.com wrote:

On 5/22/2022 7:10 PM, Alan Grayson wrote:

On Sunday, May 22, 2022 at 4:44:37 PM UTC-6 Lawrence Crowell wrote:

It is amazing the depth of nonsense, rot and trash in this thread. This is an indication of how utterly worthless religion is when it comes to understanding even the most minimal of things.

There is a basic reason why Putin ordered the invasion of Ukraine. He and his cronies have stolen everything they can steal. It is similar to the Argentine strongman Gaultier, who with his cronies had looted the Argentine economy to the bone. So to distract public attention away from their crimes Gaultier decided that taking the Falklands from Britain was a great idea. A victory of that sort would buoy up his standing and ..., yeah it did not work. Putin's invasion of Ukraine was meant to do just the same, and the outcome does not look too different.

The fall of the Soviet Union did not displace people in charge. All they did was to tear up their communist party cards, and the commissars of various industries declared themselves capitalists and owners. They became the oligarchs of Russia and these gangsters have been plundering Russia ever since. The Russian economy has barely muddled along for the last 3 decades. Putin is probably the second most wealthy man in the world.

Please folks, knock off the religious rubbish. I see absolutely no reason to think there exist any form of disembodied conscious agent.

I wholeheartedly agree with your points in this post. However, on one point you really must accept a huge deficiency. Ask yourself how there is anything in the universe that knows anything.  AG

It evolved.  It turns out that knowing stuff improves the chance of being naturally selected to reproduce.

Sure, but what is the origin of the self-reflective function of mind or consciousness? AG

It makes it possible to entertain and deceive others.  Every hear of seduction?

Brent

[Alan Grayson]

Very clever, but can you give me one example of a self-referencing computer system? AG

[Brent Meeker]

Sure.  Lots of computers in high-reliability applications do a lot of self checking.   But what's that have to do with the origin of consciousness?  Computers are not yet self reproducing, so Darwinian evolution doesn't apply to them.

Brent

[Alan Grayson]

Self checking and natural selection seem to go together to produce "consciousness", but we really don't know what it is to analyse, so these discussions go nowhere, and always has. AG 

[Alan Grayson]

I'm expecting a comment / criticism that my claim that self-checking and natural selection go together to produce "consciousness" is tantamount to the claim that acquired characteristics are inherited, which goes against the usual interpretation of evolution by natural selection. But isn't it now accepted that at least some acquired characteristics are in fact inherited? TIA, AG

[John Clark]

On Mon, May 23, 2022 at 9:55 PM Alan Grayson <agrays...@gmail.com> wrote:

 > isn't it now accepted that at least some acquired characteristics are in fact inherited? TIA, AG

There are not many but there are a few examples of Epigenetic inheritance, but it doesn't add anything fundamentally new to Darwin's idea, basically it's just a further complication to Natural Selection because any change in an organism, including Epigenetic changes, will die out after just a few generations unless Natural Selection decrees that those changes confer a reproductive advantage. It's a good thing too because otherwise acquired characteristics like scars and broken bones and worn out teeth would be inherited, and if that was the case life would've died out billions of years ago, very soon after it first started.

  John K Clark    See what's on my new list at  Extropolis

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