Vaccine statistics

[John Clark]

I thought it might be useful to cut through some of the noise about breakthrough COVID-19 infections and give the latest statistics from the CDC. If you are fully vaccinated then you only have a 0.004% chance of becoming so ill from COVID-19 that you need to be hospitalized, and you have less than a 0.001% chance of dying from it. So these days if you do die of it you have no excuse and should be thoroughly embarrassed as well as being thoroughly dead; I'm certain your family will be embarrassed to admit that they're related to somebody who died from an advanced case of stupidity.

Less than 0.001% of fully vaccinated Americans died after a Covid-19 breakthrough case

John K Clark    See what's on my new list at  Extropolis

[Lawrence Crowell]

The real problem is that vaccinated people will have delta-Cov-Sar2 in them and they can pass it on to others. If everyone were vaccinated this would not be much of a problem, and in fact might be just a bit of added immune boosting. So we are now back to masking mandates, and I am going to have to buy another box of them tomorrow. It is deja vu all over again. A year ago we were in the same spot.

LC

[Stathis Papaioannou]

On Mon, 2 Aug 2021 at 09:01, Lawrence Crowell <goldenfield...@gmail.com> wrote:

The real problem is that vaccinated people will have delta-Cov-Sar2 in them and they can pass it on to others. If everyone were vaccinated this would not be much of a problem, and in fact might be just a bit of added immune boosting. So we are now back to masking mandates, and I am going to have to buy another box of them tomorrow. It is deja vu all over again. A year ago we were in the same spot.

Ironically, vaccinated people will have to wear masks for the benefit of those who don’t believe in vaccination and perhaps not in masks either.

LC

On Sunday, August 1, 2021 at 9:36:06 AM UTC-5 johnk...@gmail.com wrote:

I thought it might be useful to cut through some of the noise about breakthrough COVID-19 infections and give the latest statistics from the CDC. If you are fully vaccinated then you only have a 0.004% chance of becoming so ill from COVID-19 that you need to be hospitalized, and you have less than a 0.001% chance of dying from it. So these days if you do die of it you have no excuse and should be thoroughly embarrassed as well as being thoroughly dead; I'm certain your family will be embarrassed to admit that they're related to somebody who died from an advanced case of stupidity.

Less than 0.001% of fully vaccinated Americans died after a Covid-19 breakthrough case

John K Clark    See what's on my new list at  Extropolis

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Stathis Papaioannou

[Lawrence Crowell]

On Sunday, August 1, 2021 at 6:18:52 PM UTC-5 stathisp wrote:

On Mon, 2 Aug 2021 at 09:01, Lawrence Crowell <goldenfield...@gmail.com> wrote:

The real problem is that vaccinated people will have delta-Cov-Sar2 in them and they can pass it on to others. If everyone were vaccinated this would not be much of a problem, and in fact might be just a bit of added immune boosting. So we are now back to masking mandates, and I am going to have to buy another box of them tomorrow. It is deja vu all over again. A year ago we were in the same spot.

Ironically, vaccinated people will have to wear masks for the benefit of those who don’t believe in vaccination and perhaps not in masks either.

Mask mandates are back on at work tomorrow. Indeed, now that the δ variant is breakthrough, though asymptomatic for the vaccinated, we are back to trying to "lower the curve" with masking. This was what came in force just about a year ago. Oh well. I know which side of the fence I am glad to be on. 

LC

[Bruno Marchal]

People who claim that a vaccination mandate, or masks,  constitute a threat for freedom are mocking those living in a genuine dictatorship and they have no ideas of what that means.

If they were serious they would be in the street since the prohibition of medication laws, which is something putting liars into power and which is really threatening freedom and democracy. 

In fact, not vaccinate oneself during a pandemic is about the same as not respecting the speed limit in a city. It is a quasi criminal act hat endangered the others, and sometimes kill some of them.

Vaccination is not a personal affair. Like limitation of speed, it is not so much to protect you from others, but to protect others from you.

It is not a coincidence that those against vaccination are very often siding with Trump, which is the real threat against freedom and democracy.

Bruno

[spudb...@aol.com]

Pro-vaccine here, but am against vaxing an masks as some sort of loyalty oath to progressive run governments. Public health is obviously not a well-developed science as purported. For a year the idea of covid being a naturally evolved germ was promoted solidly by the CDC, the WHO, and progressives that comprise the media and most governments. This is now looking doubtful with the rise of delta and now other variants. There are also other considerations to be considered aside from mere numbers. For causes, there are effects. 

From a new report from Nature. 

Rates of SARS-CoV-2 transmission and vaccination impact the fate of vaccine-resistant strains

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-021-95025-3

Potentially we are now breeding resistance. Is this true? Not sure, but simply relying of governmental, benefactors, for even telling the truth is not now a believable thing in all cases. The China origin thing, Fauci's connection with funding the Wuhan labs, Fauci's own decision to change his analysis from a 90% immunity percentile down to 75%, because he stated he "thought that the public couldn't take it," throws whatever people like him say, into reasonable doubt. 

So Bruno, why all the protests in France and Berlin the last 10 days. Are these merely white supremacists stirring up trouble? Might it be something more nuanced? 

https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/b540f128-e750-4a37-84d9-9e29e1746cb3n%40googlegroups.com

.

[John Clark]

On Mon, Aug 2, 2021 at 8:09 PM spudboy100 via Everything List <everyth...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

> Pro-vaccine here, but am against vaxing an masks as some sort of loyalty oath

If you think it's OK for unvaccinated and unmasked people to get on an airplane filled with 300 people, do you also think someone has a God-given right to defecate in the aisle of that closed aluminum tube flying at 35,000 feet if they wish to?  

 > For a year the idea of covid being a naturally evolved germ was promoted solidly by the CDC, the WHO, and progressives that comprise the media and most governments. This is now looking doubtful with the rise of delta and now other variants

How do you figure that? Life changes over generations, a fellow wrote a bestseller about that in 1859 named Charles Darwin. A generation is only about 20 minutes long for a virus so they change rapidly.  And COVID-19 is a RNA virus which mutates more frequently than DNA viruses so they evolve even faster. Although there are exceptions generally they become more infectious but less deadly because a parasite killing its host is not a good Evolutionary strategy.

> From a new report from Nature. 

Rates of SARS-CoV-2 transmission and vaccination impact the fate of vaccine-resistant strains

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-021-95025-3

If you hadn't given that link I would have because it says:  

 "As expected, we found that a fast rate of vaccination decreases the probability of emergence of a resistant strain."

> Potentially we are now breeding resistance. Is this true?

Yes, that has always been a danger, but the article points out there are things that society can do to minimize that risk:  

 "Counterintuitively, when a relaxation of non-pharmaceutical interventions happened at a time when most individuals of the population have already been vaccinated the probability of emergence of a resistant strain was greatly increased."

In other words, filthy unhygienic unscientific unvaccinated people (nearly all Trump supporters) put all of us, and the entire nation, and the entire world, in danger. Not only is refusing to wear a mask even at the height of the pandemic and now refusing to get vaccinated unethical, but much more important than morality to a flag waiver like you, it's UNPATRIOTIC. 30% of the population (mostly Republicans) refuse to get vaccinated, if they don't change their minds then the days of the USA being a economic military and scientific superpower are over. You can't have a first class nation if it's anchored down by 30% of its population which is second rate.

> The China origin thing,

If we're talking about the pros and cons of vaccinations (actually there aren't any cons) then the origin of the virus is irrelevant 

> Fauci's own decision to change his analysis from a 90% immunity percentile down to 75%, because he stated he "thought that the public couldn't take it," throws whatever people like him say, into reasonable doubt. 

Interesting factoid, I googled the phrase you quoted "thought that the public couldn't take it", and I got exactly one hit, your post, that's it. Bing did no better. 

> Fauci's connection with funding the Wuhan labs

I don't know if the Wuhan lab had anything to do with the origin of COVID-19 or not, it's conceivable an accident may have happened, but at least publicly it was not doing anything that every other virus research lab in the world, including those in the USA, wasn't doing. And as it was one of the top virus research laboratories in the world and Dr. Fauci was one of the top virus disease researchers in the world it would be astonishing if you could NOT find a connection between him and the Wuhan lab.  As for the funding, back in 2015 the national Institute of health gave $3 million to a nonprofit called the "EcoHealth Alliance" to study bat-borne coronaviruses, the EcoHealth Alliance then sent $76,000 to the Wuhan lab as a subcontract. I don't see anything particularly sinister in any of this, but I must say, attacks on Dr. Fauci for following the science and not Trump's happy talk (the virus is totally under control) is nauseating. Dr. Fauci has been risking his life by treating highly infectious patients that have deadly diseases for decades, can you imagine Donald Trump caring for an Ebola patient? He'd be running away as fast as his fat little legs could carry him. 

John K Clark    See what's on my new list at  Extropolis

lxxo

[Lawrence Crowell]

As the saying goes, never try to teach a pig to sing, you get all muddy and really piss off a pig. Discussing anything with spuds is a waste of time. He, she or it has drunk the Kool-Aid of right wing extremism and is effectively brainwashed. 

Did Fauci communicate with the Wuhan lab? Probably, and anyone in his position will communicate with scientists around the world. I do that and have published papers with people in various countries. Fauci probably communicates with scientists in a range of research organizations around the world.

LC

 

[Bruno Marchal]

Spud, the protest in France is absurd. It reflects lack of education, or of common sense. But then, that is very common, even in the Academia, for reason of untouchability. It is like with the conflict in the Middle-East, where many Europeans and more and more  Americans  confuse systematically the victims and the executioners since the end of war. 

Like some nazis said, the more a lie is big, the more people will love it.

To contest an election after the certification of State is indecent. Even if Biden stole the election and that we got some evidences, which I doubt make any sense, the answer should be "to late". The GOP is really attempting to destroy Democracy, like a kid who prefer better to destroy a toy than to let his brother/sister play with it. 

It is not unlike the God/Non-God debate, which is a trick by believer in Aristotle theology (Materialism) to make us forget a millenium of doubt on the nature (fundamental or secondary) of the physical reality. To invoke a metaphysical commitment in a "Universe" to explain consciousness and appearance is the same sempiternal error consisting to invoke a god, be it personal or impersonal, to avoid trying to solve a problem. 

The tolerance of fake religion, instead of hypothetic-deductive reasoning in the field,  is just a technic to assure us that the boss is always right, especially when the boss is wrong. 

Yea re still preferring the comfortable lies in place of discovering some possible disturbing truth. 

And, bad news, those lie begins early in arithmetic, where I got evidences that might PA + []f proves much more than PA + ~[]f. []f is a sort of axiom of infinity in disguise. The Gödel number of a proof of false in elementary arithmetic is a non standard natural number, and is bigger than all standard natural numbers. The lies and the errors have a deeper origin that I thought. They have their role, ... but that is not necessarily a reason to propagate them, on the contrary. 

Bruno

[Brent Meeker]

On 8/5/2021 3:19 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote:
> And, bad news, those lie begins early in arithmetic, where I got
> evidences that might PA + []f proves much more than PA + ~[]f. []f is
> a sort of axiom of infinity in disguise. The Gödel number of a proof
> of false in elementary arithmetic is a non standard natural number,
> and is bigger than all standard natural numbers. The lies and the
> errors have a deeper origin that I thought. They have their role, ...
> but that is not necessarily a reason to propagate them, on the contrary.
>
> Bruno

Isn't []f inconsistency and allows (in common logic) the proof of every
proposition?

Brent

[spudb...@aol.com]

According to this court brief in the article, by David Shahoulian, DHS’s assistant secretary for border and immigration policy, we have tons of unvaxed people entering the country at the southern border and released on their own recognizance to various communities. 
https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2021/08/05/bidens-dhs-admits-significantly-increased-rates-of-covid-positive-border-crossers-arriving-in-u-s/

Court brief here: http://cdn.cnn.com/cnn/2021/images/08/02/dhs.declaration.pdf

Maybe, somehow they can be encouraged to take both doses but who knows? I will take a 3rd dose when Pfizer makes it available. This may be good politics for the democrats but it's truly bad for curbing epidemics. 

-----Original Message-----
From: Lawrence Crowell <goldenfield...@gmail.com>
To: Everything List <everyth...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Wed, Aug 4, 2021 6:36 am
Subject: Re: Vaccine statistics

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[spudb...@aol.com]

Fauci is not helpful in his CDC mission. For instance last year he said he change the percentage of what it would take to reach national immunity because the felt it would make us feel bad. He said at the time 75%, when he calculated it to be 90%. Just tell us the truth. His ties with the Wuhan lab make him unsuitable for taking advice from unless you hear it from somebody else more trustworthy. You seem to be ignoring science regarding your airplane comment because all US passenger airlines require HEPA filters which reduce the changes of getting covid that way. 

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-airlines-idINKBN2702S7

You characterization of Trump supporters is again wrong because everything you look for is through an ideological lens. If group loyalty was an Olympic sport, you'd have earned a Silver. 

From the UK, (The Country) which has never liked Yanks, comes this notification. 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-9847225/Data-shows-NOT-just-Republicans-refusing-COVID-vaccine.html

So, really it's your peeps that are so obstinate and not the hicks from the sticks, and your Chief is letting newcomers in from the now open border, and they come from places where general medical care is unaffordable, and free vaccinations are lacking. 

-----Original Message-----
From: John Clark <johnk...@gmail.com>
To: 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List <everyth...@googlegroups.com>
Cc: mar...@ulb.ac.be <mar...@ulb.ac.be>
Sent: Tue, Aug 3, 2021 5:47 am
Subject: Re: Vaccine statistics

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[Brent Meeker]

On 8/5/2021 8:49 PM, spudboy100 via Everything List wrote:

Fauci is not helpful in his CDC mission. For instance last year he said he change the percentage of what it would take to reach national immunity because the felt it would make us feel bad. He said at the time 75%, when he calculated it to be 90%. Just tell us the truth.

Unlike Potatoes for Trump, scientists change their mind when they get new data.  R0 for the alpha variant was about 3, so having 2/3=67% of the population immune would give herd immunity.  The R0 for the delta variant is around 8, so you need 7/8= 87.5% immune in order to have herd immunity.

His ties with the Wuhan lab make him unsuitable for taking advice from unless you hear it from somebody else more trustworthy.

Ties?  You mean the idiotic innuendo that Trumpist substitute for evidence?

Brent

[John Clark]

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/1078913047.40731.1628219995969%40mail.yahoo.com.

[John Clark]

On Thu, Aug 5, 2021 at 11:20 PM spudboy100 via Everything List <everyth...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

>we have tons of unvaxed people entering the country

Tons? Well, I know right wingers such as yourself like to blame all the nation's problems on those damned infernal foreigners, especially those that have a slightly different hue to their skin color than themselves, but the fact is the reason the epidemic in the USA didn't end several months ago is because of MEGATONS of Trump's hillbilly supporters refuse to get vaccinated even though it's scientifically shown to be safe and effective and it's easy to get and it's free.

> Fauci is not helpful in his CDC mission. For instance last year he said he change the percentage of what it would take to reach national immunity because the felt it would make us feel bad. He said at the time 75%, when he calculated it to be 90%.

Unlike dimwit politicians like Trump, scientists change their mind when more information becomes available. When Dr. Fauci said in early November that "about 75%" would be needed to reach herd immunity, most epidemiologists and the World Health Organization were saying "60 to 70%". About a month later  Dr. Fauci upped his estimate and was saying "75, 80, 85 percent pluss". He said he changed his estimate because it became clear that COVID-19 was more infectious than originally thought, it's about as infectious as measles, and because before he didn't feel comfortable telling the entire world what his gut feeling was until he was more certain he was correct and could back up his feeling with some science, and because he didn't think the country was ready to hear what he really thought. And when Dr. Fauci said "the country" I'm pretty sure it was a euphemism for Donald J Trump, because Trump had already come within about a nanometer of firing him and replacing him with a Trump quack like Dr. Scott Atlas, and then we'd be in REALLY deep shit. And in retrospect it's now clear the Dr. Fauci was right, or at least less wrong than anybody else; 70% of the nation has been vaccinated but there is no sign of herd immunity, now most  think 90% is the correct figure, that's the number rthat is equired for measles and COVID-19 is about as infectious as measles.

>Just tell us the truth.

Why on earth would telling the truth increase your liking of someone?? You love Donald Trump and yet he might as well have the words " I AM A LIAR '' tattooed on his forehead. Trump told 30,573 public lies during his 4 year administration (the number of lies he told in private is unknown); so assuming Trump didn't lie when he was sleeping that means that on average Trump publicly spoke or tweeted a lie every 46 minutes of his waking life during his 4 year presidency.  

Trump told 30,573 public lies during his presidency  

  John K Clark    See what's on my new list at  Extropolis 

y0u

[spudb...@aol.com]

Fauci still defends his funding of the Wuhan lab, which was involved in gain of function for the virus.

https://www.reuters.com/world/china/us-report-concluded-covid-19-may-have-leaked-wuhan-lab-wsj-2021-06-07/

Fauci is complicit and thus seeks to deny responsibility.

https://www.bbc.com/news/57932699

-----Original Message-----
From: 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List <everyth...@googlegroups.com>
To: everyth...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Fri, Aug 6, 2021 12:45 am
Subject: Re: Vaccine statistics

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[John Clark]

On Fri, Aug 6, 2021 at 4:26 PM spudboy100 via Everything List <everyth...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

> Fauci still defends his funding of the Wuhan lab, which was involved in gain of function for the virus.

Dr.Fauci has not done anything he needs to defend, and I very much hope gain of function studies continue; bats are a magnet for coronaviruses, most cannot infect humans but for some only a single small mutation is needed for them to gain the ability to do so. That is information well worth having so we can prepare for the next pandemic before it gets totally out of hand as this one has. However, preventing the next pandemic will likely be impossible if in 2024 Trump or one of Trump's Troglodytes such as Louie Gohmert is elected president. 

John K Clark    See what's on my new list at  Extropolis 

uyt 

[spudb...@aol.com]

He guided funds from the CDC to the Wuhan lab, which apparently, spread the virus to the world. The research there was gain of function. 

From the BBC article:

"US researcher and biologist Alina Chan at the Broad Institute of MIT and Harvard has highlighted issues with the wording of the government's pause to funding in 2014.

It says that it would stop funding research that "may be reasonably anticipated to confer attributes to influenza, MERS, or SARS viruses such that the virus would have enhanced pathogenicity and/or transmissibility in mammals via the respiratory route."

This could imply that research on viruses may not intend to produce "gain-of-function", although that could be the end result of it."

https://www.bbc.com/news/57932699

If, we even do have a "2024" election, I suspect that Gohmert will not be the lead boy, and neither will Trump. I am doubtful that the democrats who claim they are on the side of science, are actively funding preparations in advance of any new viruses. If we go by your buddies at CNN there is no apparent move for specifically fund research, before any new plague starts. Maybe you can find news of any new research, I could not. 

https://www.cnn.com/2021/03/31/politics/infrastructure-proposal-biden-explainer/index.html

-----Original Message-----
From: John Clark <johnk...@gmail.com>

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[Brent Meeker]

On 8/6/2021 6:25 PM, spudboy100 via Everything List wrote:

He guided funds from the CDC to the Wuhan lab, which apparently, spread the virus to the world. The research there was gain of function. 

From the BBC article:

Gain of function research is conducted to anticipate what pathogens may mutate to spread to other animals and humans.  This is done to get ahead of natural mutation rates.  It is not to produce more virulent pathogens.

"US researcher and biologist Alina Chan at the Broad Institute of MIT and Harvard has highlighted issues with the wording of the government's pause to funding in 2014.

It says that it would stop funding research that "may be reasonably anticipated to confer attributes to influenza, MERS, or SARS viruses such that the virus would have enhanced pathogenicity and/or transmissibility in mammals via the respiratory route."

Of course, that's what the research would be trying to determine.

You're just spreading more muddle headed interpretations by innuendo.

Brent

This could imply that research on viruses may not intend to produce "gain-of-function", although that could be the end result of it."

https://www.bbc.com/news/57932699

If, we even do have a "2024" election, I suspect that Gohmert will not be the lead boy, and neither will Trump. I am doubtful that the democrats who claim they are on the side of science, are actively funding preparations in advance of any new viruses.

But you're not doubtful because of evidence.  You're doubtful because that feeds your political ego that you're smarter and more informed after drinking Rupert's koolaid.

Brent

If we go by your buddies at CNN there is no apparent move for specifically fund research, before any new plague starts. Maybe you can find news of any new research, I could not. 

https://www.cnn.com/2021/03/31/politics/infrastructure-proposal-biden-explainer/index.html

-----Original Message-----
From: John Clark <johnk...@gmail.com>
To: 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List <everyth...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Fri, Aug 6, 2021 5:08 pm
Subject: Re: Vaccine statistics

On Fri, Aug 6, 2021 at 4:26 PM spudboy100 via Everything List <everyth...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

> Fauci still defends his funding of the Wuhan lab, which was involved in gain of function for the virus.

Dr.Fauci has not done anything he needs to defend, and I very much hope gain of function studies continue; bats are a magnet for coronaviruses, most cannot infect humans but for some only a single small mutation is needed for them to gain the ability to do so. That is information well worth having so we can prepare for the next pandemic before it gets totally out of hand as this one has. However, preventing the next pandemic will likely be impossible if in 2024 Trump or one of Trump's Troglodytes such as Louie Gohmert is elected president. 

John K Clark    See what's on my new list at  Extropolis 

uyt 

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[John Clark]

On Fri, Aug 6, 2021 at 9:25 PM <spudb...@aol.com> wrote:

> He guided funds from the CDC to the Wuhan lab,

No he did not. Dr. Fauci gave a contract to a US based nonprofit organization called the "EcoHealth Alliance" to study coronaviruses in bats, the EcoHealth Alliance then subcontracted a small part of the work to the Wuhan lab; nobody at the time saw anything sinister about that and I don't he anything sinister about it to this day.

 

> which apparently, spread the virus to the world.

I don't know that the Wuhan lab had anything to do with the start or spread of the virus, and you Mr. Spudboy100 sure as hell don't know that either. That reminds me of a question I've been wanting to ask you, some of my opinions are very unpopular but I'm not in the least ashamed of them so I'm willing to sign my name to them, but you are not. So Mr. Spudboy100, is there a reason other than the obvious one for this? 

>  https://www.bbc.com/news/57932699

I watched that disgraceful performance by Trump stooge Republican Senator Rand Paul in which he accused Dr. Fauci of lying to Congress. The article you cite quotes Dr. Fauci of saying that it was " "molecularly impossible" for these viruses to have resulted in the coronavirus, although he did not elaborate". And the article is quite correct, Dr. Fauci did not elaborate. But why didn't the good doctor elaborate? Because every time he tried to do so idiot Senator Rand Paul interrupted him that's why

John K Clark    See what's on my new list at  Extropolis 

xxz

[spudb...@aol.com]

1. The innuendo comes from a lab researcher that was involved with the research.
2. He gave tax dollars to an already hostile genocidal regime to fund virus gain of function research.

3. Fauci was deliberately deceptive in claiming the immunity rate need only be 75% when he said he knew it needed to be 90%.

I think the American people deserve better as with somebody more honest, accurate, and less involved with a tyrannical, genocidal regime. 

https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/2342d08d-e403-8a61-777e-7331251c387c%40verizon.net

.

[Brent Meeker]

More B.S. from Mr Potatohead

On 8/7/2021 1:29 PM, spudboy100 via Everything List wrote:

1. The innuendo comes from a lab researcher that was involved with the research.

Innuendo is unargued, unsupported implication.  It doesn't matter who it comes from. 

2. He gave tax dollars to an already hostile genocidal regime to fund virus gain of function research.

He funded a private U.S. company to do research.  That company subcontracted some data collection to Wuhan.

3. Fauci was deliberately deceptive in claiming the immunity rate need only be 75% when he said he knew it needed to be 90%.

He didn't know it needed to be 90% because he didn't know it was as infectious as the delta variant because it wasn't.  How do you know what is deliberate or not.  You can't even tell what's reasonable or not.

I think the American people deserve better as with somebody more honest, accurate, and less involved with a tyrannical, genocidal regime.

And we need someone who's not afraid to use their real name to spread B.S.

Brent

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/1838405739.212994.1628368174246%40mail.yahoo.com.

[spudb...@aol.com]

I heard him with my own ears admit the uping from 75-90%. He probably thought it wasn't that big of a deal. I do. 

He's in with the Xi regime and apparently you are too.

https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/222fd514-3fee-7f07-3439-6b1cd2a5499c%40verizon.net

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