Environmentalists are not serious people

[John Clark]

Environmentalists claim global warming poses an existential threat to the entire human race, and yet they oppose even exploring the possibility of stopping it unless it involves a vast amount of human suffering. The pressure from environmentalists proved to be too great and  SCoPEx has been canceled by Harvard University, who financed it.  SCoPEx was a sort of small high altitude maneuverable blimp that would go up into the stratosphere and release at most 2 kg of calcium carbonate particles (just ground up over the counter antacid particles like Tums) and then turn around and fly through the cloud of particles to measure how they dispersed and how well they reflected sunlight. They finished building the vehicle and we're ready to launch it in the summer of 2021 from northern Sweden, but environmentalists made them stop, they claimed that 2 kg of Tums risks "catastrophic consequences" the worst consequence being that if it was scaled up it might actually work by reflecting enough sunlight to stop global warming and thus reduce "the world’s necessary efforts to achieve zero-carbon societies" and so they insisted there is "no acceptable reason for allowing the SCoPEx project to be conducted either in Sweden or elsewhere."

Could reduce the world's needs to reach zero carbon emissions

Since 2021 SCoPEx had tried to find another high northern or southern latitude place to launch their balloon, but environmentalists are really good at finding ways to stop things from getting done, they stopped the launch every time, and today Harvard has given up. SCoPEx is dead, killed by environmentalists. Nine years ago environmentalists, with the help of native Hawaiian barbarians and believe it or not  Aquaman, also killed the wonderful Thirty Meter Telescope even though construction was almost half finished. So I am not a huge fan of environmentalists, they just are not serious people.  

John K Clark    See what's on my new list at  Extropolis

ams

[John Clark]

On Sun, Mar 31, 2024 at 10:05 AM William Flynn Wallace <fooz...@gmail.com> wrote:

> John, you are judging all environmentalists by a tiny group of extremists. 

 

Tiny? I didn't see a larger group of environmentalists lobbying in favor of SCoPEx or The Thirty Meter Telescope! I am judging environmentalists by those who manage to get things done, or rather those who are successful in making sure that nothing ever gets done. They'd rather cry about global warming than do anything to try to fix the problem,  unless  of course the solution involves a vast amount of suffering, then fixing it would be OK. Otherwise they'd prefer the problem remain unsolved. 

John K Clark    See what's on my new list at  Extropolis

966

[Russell Standish]

On Sun, Mar 31, 2024 at 12:09:25PM -0400, John Clark wrote:
> On Sun, Mar 31, 2024 at 10:05 AM William Flynn Wallace <fooz...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>
> > John, you are judging all environmentalists by a tiny group of
> extremists. 
>
>
>  
> Tiny? I didn't see a larger group of environmentalists lobbying in favor of
> SCoPEx or The Thirty Meter Telescope! I am judging environmentalists by those
> who manage to get things done, or rather those who are successful in making
> sure that nothing ever gets done. They'd rather cry about global warming than
> do anything to try to fix the problem,  unless  of course the solution involves
> a vast amount of suffering, then fixing it would be OK. Otherwise they'd prefer
> the problem remain unsolved. 
>

"Environmentalists" are not one united group of people. Probably one
of the biggest movements is Avaaz, which takes on environmental
concerns as well as humanitarian ones. I'm subscribed to that group,
but SCoPEx didn't rate a mention. So this most likely was a small group
opposing it, and nobody else knew about it.

But...

The most compelling argument to opposing geoengineering is that it is
a distraction from the real task, which is to reduce CO2
emissions. Some people (I don't think anyone in this company would be
that stupid) seem to think it is OK to continue burning fossil fuels
if the effects can be mitagated by climate geoengineering, or carbon
capture sequestration. Some in the environmental movement are
suspicious that fossil fuel companies will hold out mitigations
methods as a "get out of gaol free" card, to allow business as usual.

This is all entirely political, and as far as I'm concerned total
bullshit. We need all and every possible means to counteract climate
change. That means decarbonise the economy as soon as possible, it
also means geoengineering to mitigate the worst effects, and it also
means adapting to the changing climate by, for example developing
drought resistent crops. It was already too late for just doing
massively decarbonisation when I first became aware of the issue in
the 1980s, let alone getting started now some 30+ years later with
more than a decade of ostrich-like behaviour by the conservative mob
(that's in Australia, to say nothing of the rest of the
world). Nothing should be off the table, at least as far as
researching different options to figure out what interventions work
and how cost efective they will be.

Humanity is already locked in for a very bumpy century - there will be
mass migration, plagues, famine, infrastructure - what we need to
focus on is what we need to do to save civilisation.

--

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dr Russell Standish Phone 0425 253119 (mobile)
Principal, High Performance Coders hpc...@hpcoders.com.au
http://www.hpcoders.com.au
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[John Clark]

On Sun, Mar 31, 2024 at 5:44 PM Russell Standish <li...@hpcoders.com.au> wrote:

>"Environmentalists" are not one united group of people.

Environmentalists are united about one thing, they never saw a large scale power source that they didn't hate. The self righteous little brat and self-proclaimed environmentalist Greta Thunberg was arrested a few years ago in Sweden for blocking a street while she demonstrated against the building of a wind farm. A wind farm!

 

> "but SCoPEx didn't rate a mention. So this most likely was a small group opposing it, and nobody else knew about it."

 

SCoPEx only planned to place 2 kilograms of ground up over the counter antacid tablets into the stratosphere but environmentalists moved heaven and earth to stop them from doing so because they were terrified it might show a way to stop global warming without introducing mass suffering.  Apparently they believe the human race needs to suffer for their past sins. I find this attitude to be utterly contemptible!  And the group opposing it was large enough to kill SCoPEx. The same thing could be said about the environmentalists who killed the Thirty Meter Telescope, although in that case I admit they had the help of native Hawaiian imbeciles who were worried that this magnificent device that would have taught us more about how the universe works might offend an invisible man who lived in the sky. And Aquaman also helped to destroy the telescope.  

> "The most compelling argument to opposing geoengineering is that it is a distraction from the real task, which is to reduce CO2 emissions."

The real task is not to reduce CO2 emissions, it's to stop global warming.  And I must say, global warming is a problem but if I were to make a list of world problems global warming would not make the top five, I'm not sure it would even make the top ten. 

 

> "Some people (I don't think anyone in this company would be that stupid) seem to think it is OK to continue burning fossil fuels if the effects can be mitagated by climate geoengineering, or carbon capture sequestration."

Oh I'm stupid enough to believe we should continue burning fossil fuels until a replacement can be proven to be able to produce an equal amount of energy at a price that makes economic sense. I say that because the alternative is the end of civilization and the death of billions. Like it or not the Earth is simply not capable of keeping 8 billion mammals as large as human beings alive, much less happy, without artificial fertilizers and pesticides, which require energy to make, and farm machinery and a way to transport food to where it is needed, which also requires energy.

>"This is all entirely political, and as far as I'm concerned total bullshit. We need all and every possible means to counteract climate change."

Yes and that includes geoengineering if a way that could be found to make it work, and the first step in finding out if something like that could work involves grinding up 2 kg of Tums antacid tablets. But environmentalists say that is too radical a step to take even though they also claim global warming is an existential danger to the human race. And that is why I say environmentalists are not serious people.

John K Clark    See what's on my new list at  Extropolis

2rs

[spudb...@aol.com]

Calls, JC's analysis as factual, or as it is now termed, "based."  Engineering should never be guided by ideology only what works?  For ALL of us, we primates are often governed by our amygdala's alone, Team spirit & Bad Experiences with the Other Team. Yoda would say, "Strong in the Rage and Fear with the Humans in This Galaxy! This includes me, this primate. This is why I continually nag, not Personalities but Policies. If the Policies are workable, personality be damned. No, I don't expect anyone to change because of my statement! 

Hi John! 

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[John Clark]

On Tue, Apr 2, 2024 at 7:15 PM 'spudb...@aol.com' via Everything List <everyth...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

 > I continually nag, not Personalities but Policies. If the Policies are workable, personality be damned.

It doesn't matter if a policy is workable or not if a personality can't get anything done. Remember Trump's "infrastructure week" or his policy of building a wall and making Mexico pay for it?   And policies don't start wars, personalities do. Remember George W. Bush? And policies don't become fascist dictators, personalities do.

John K Clark    See what's on my new list at  Extropolis

psw

 

No, I don't expect anyone to change because of my statement! 

Hi John! 

On Monday, April 1, 2024 at 06:45:19 AM EDT, John Clark <johnk...@gmail.com> wrote:

On Sun, Mar 31, 2024 at 5:44 PM Russell Standish <li...@hpcoders.com.au> wrote:

>"Environmentalists" are not one united group of people.

Environmentalists are united about one thing, they never saw a large scale power source that they didn't hate. The self righteous little brat and self-proclaimed environmentalist Greta Thunberg was arrested a few years ago in Sweden for blocking a street while she demonstrated against the building of a wind farm. A wind farm!

 

> "but SCoPEx didn't rate a mention. So this most likely was a small group opposing it, and nobody else knew about it."

 

SCoPEx only planned to place 2 kilograms of ground up over the counter antacid tablets into the stratosphere but environmentalists moved heaven and earth to stop them from doing so because they were terrified it might show a way to stop global warming without introducing mass suffering.  Apparently they believe the human race needs to suffer for their past sins. I find this attitude to be utterly contemptible!  And the group opposing it was large enough to kill SCoPEx. The same thing could be said about the environmentalists who killed the Thirty Meter Telescope, although in that case I admit they had the help of native Hawaiian imbeciles who were worried that this magnificent device that would have taught us more about how the universe works might offend an invisible man who lived in the sky. And Aquaman also helped to destroy the telescope.  

> "The most compelling argument to opposing geoengineering is that it is a distraction from the real task, which is to reduce CO2 emissions."

The real task is not to reduce CO2 emissions, it's to stop global warming.  And I must say, global warming is a problem but if I were to make a list of world problems global warming would not make the top five, I'm not sure it would even make the top ten. 

 

> "Some people (I don't think anyone in this company would be that stupid) seem to think it is OK to continue burning fossil fuels if the effects can be mitagated by climate geoengineering, or carbon capture sequestration."

Oh I'm stupid enough to believe we should continue burning fossil fuels until a replacement can be proven to be able to produce an equal amount of energy at a price that makes economic sense. I say that because the alternative is the end of civilization and the death of billions. Like it or not the Earth is simply not capable of keeping 8 billion mammals as large as human beings alive, much less happy, without artificial fertilizers and pesticides, which require energy to make, and farm machinery and a way to transport food to where it is needed, which also requires energy.

>"This is all entirely political, and as far as I'm concerned total bullshit. We need all and every possible means to counteract climate change."

Yes and that includes geoengineering if a way that could be found to make it work, and the first step in finding out if something like that could work involves grinding up 2 kg of Tums antacid tablets. But environmentalists say that is too radical a step to take even though they also claim global warming is an existential danger to the human race. And that is why I say environmentalists are not serious people.

2rs

[spudb...@aol.com]

Trump failed on some of his braggings for sure. For policies? Immigration, Inflation, Foreign troubles, crime,  he did better. Will he take power in 2024? Eh, we'll talk. 

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[John Clark]

On Wed, Apr 3, 2024 at 11:15 PM 'spudb...@aol.com' via Everything List <everyth...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

>"Trump failed on some of his braggings for sure."

You think?

 

"> For policies? Immigration, Inflation, Foreign troubles, crime,  he did better. "

During the Trump administration at least 1,219,000 Americans died from COVID, more than all who died in all of America's wars put together. And this came at a time while Trump's policy was saying Covid was overblown and the Democrats were just trying to make a big deal out of nothing, and then telling us that vaccines cause autism and proposing quack cures for Covid like Hydroxychloroquine, even though it just increased the death rate, and don't forget that other new wonder drug that Dr. Trump discovered, Clorox.

And Trump was as bad an economist as he was a doctor. On the last day of the Trump administration there were 2.9 million fewer jobs than on the first day of the Trump administration, and that's the first time something like that has happened since Herbert Hoover. If we consider the overall growth from the beginning to the end of Trump's presidency, the economy expanded by approximately 7.5% in real terms (adjusted for inflation). But that was over 4 years, in just one year, 2021, the first year of the Biden administration, the economy grew by 5.7%,  In 2022 it was only 2.1% but in 2023 it was 2.5%.  

The federal debt went up, from $14.4 trillion to $21.6 trillion during the Trump years.
The number of people lacking health insurance rose by 3 million during the Trump years.
Home prices rose by 27.5% during the 4 Trump years.
The U.S. trade deficit in goods and services in 2020 was the highest since 2008.
Handgun production rose by 12.5% in 2020
In Trump's last year 2020,  the murder rate rose to the highest level since 1997, 6.5 per 100,000 residents.
And despite all of Trump's many bombastic and fascist speeches, illegal immigration over the southwestern border increased by an estimated 14.7%.

Oh and Trump reneged on the Iran nuclear deal guaranteeing that Iran would become a nuclear power. 

And Trump will probably get out of NATO in order to give his boss, Vladimir Putin, a free hand to invade any country in Europe that he wants. 

And then there's the fact that Trump is the first president in American history that tried to stop the peaceful transfer of power when this term of office was over, and the fact that Trump wants to be a dictator just like his idol Vladimir. 

 

John K Clark    See what's on my new list at  Extropolis

pvs