YCombinator for Biotech Open now in SF (Indie Bio prev SynBioAxlr8r)

[Biotech Ryan]

Hi All, we (Berkeley Biolabs) are helping the team at SOS ventures and they've just launched their new DIY Bio accelerator in Downtown SF and they're accepting global applications. 

It's super exciting to finally see a real accelerator for DIY Bio in SF, the first class starts this Jan and applications are due soon, so if you have an idea that you're working on and want to get funding SOS ventures is definitely worth applying to. The first batch of companies out of Indie Bio (previously synbioaxlr8r) have been really successful, 4 out of 6 raised their first rounds (between $500k - $2M in the case of Muufri). Congrats to all the teams and apply :)

I talked to Arvind and he said the he'll be looking at applications as they come in so earlier applications have a better chance of getting funded

http://indieb.io/apply-to-sf/

[Nathan McCorkle]

I can't tell from the web site if and what their cut of profits or equity may be. Can you post that number or those terms here?

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[Dakota Hamill]

$35,000 for 8% is what I read on the site

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/diybio/CA%2B82U9JB3EyWx7c_8vvTnXzPB-2HHRoS14W-k58D0x9vAHwrJA%40mail.gmail.com.

[Cathal (Phone)]

That's right, thanks Dakota. Speaking from direct involvement, there's a lot of intangible goodness involved, in terms of access to skilled mentorship (beyond those listed on the site) and contacts who can help with a project. This year's run in Cork was the first ever, and despite that and all the attached teething issues, it was great fun and very successful. Can't wait for next Summer's programme!

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[Nathan McCorkle]

Ahh so this is what SynBioAxlr8r became?

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/diybio/9164E4FB-0383-4C2B-9043-17DD8E523815%40cathalgarvey.me.

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--
-Nathan

[Cathal (Phone)]

Yep! Now a bi-yearly SF/Cork phenomenon. Yay Cork!

[Christopher Kelly]

Hopefully we get some stellar Paul Graham style essays as well!

[Brian Degger]

Can't wait till the next Cork one...might be in a position to push something.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/diybio/958A4695-754C-4174-BF2A-46CCDA01124A%40cathalgarvey.me.

[Yuriy Fazylov]

Why is it only from Jan through to May? 

[Jacob Shiach]

Hi Yuriy, the goals to accelerate companies to the point where they can survive on their own. Giving people more time before the launch tends to have a negative effect and teams stagnate.

As for if it's possible to create a biotech prototype in 100 days, for most single celled stuff, hardware or software it totally is. If you're dealing with plant or animal models however, you're not going to get a working prototype in 3 months no matter how hard you try simply cause generation times.

P.s. Indie Bio is Tri-Annually! SF - Cork - SF

[Yuriy Fazylov]

Hi Jacob.

I know almost nothing of Cork other than its run Cathal and it had a good turnout this summer.
What are the SF time windows? what mentors are typical of each locale? What should I expect?

What makes you think that proof of concept plant cannot be done within 100 days?
To me it all depends on how picky one is with species he/she is working with and modes of gene delivery.

[Mega [Andreas Stuermer]]

Will there be one this year in Cork? 

[Cathal Garvey]

There certainly will! And, while the last one was not actually run by me
(you can credit Jacob for the success of the first SynbioAxlr8r), the
next one in Cork will be managed by yours truly! :)

Really looking forward to it already, and eager to hear from anyone, on
or off list, who's thinking of applying!

(As far as plants, by the way, we had one team this year who tried and
it was very challenging, even ignoring a regulatory hiccup; you have as
little as *one chance* to get it right because of generation times. But,
we'd still welcome projects at this level of ambition, and have lots of
experience in what can go right and wrong, and what preparation needs to
be done. Don't be disheartened! Accelerators needn't end with a finished
project, merely a proof of concept or a proof of progress)

On 09/10/14 20:18, Mega [Andreas Stuermer] wrote:
> Will there be one this year in Cork?
>
>
>
> On Tuesday, October 7, 2014 8:11:18 PM UTC+2, DrBrian wrote:
>>
>> Can't wait till the next Cork one...might be in a position to push
>> something.
>> On 7 Oct 2014 17:58, "Cathal (Phone)" <cathal...@cathalgarvey.me

>> <javascript:>> wrote:
>>
>>> Yep! Now a bi-yearly SF/Cork phenomenon. Yay Cork!
>>>
>>> On 7 October 2014 17:39:12 GMT+01:00, Nathan McCorkle <nmz...@gmail.com

>>> <javascript:>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Ahh so this is what SynBioAxlr8r became?
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Oct 7, 2014 at 9:05 AM, Cathal (Phone) <
>>>> cathal...@cathalgarvey.me <javascript:>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> That's right, thanks Dakota. Speaking from direct involvement, there's
>>>>> a lot of intangible goodness involved, in terms of access to skilled
>>>>> mentorship (beyond those listed on the site) and contacts who can help with
>>>>> a project. This year's run in Cork was the first ever, and despite that and
>>>>> all the attached teething issues, it was great fun and very successful.
>>>>> Can't wait for next Summer's programme!
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 7 October 2014 16:21:34 GMT+01:00, Dakota Hamill <dko...@gmail.com

>>>>> <javascript:>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> $35,000 for 8% is what I read on the site
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Tue, Oct 7, 2014 at 11:17 AM, Nathan McCorkle <nmz...@gmail.com
>>>>>> <javascript:>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I can't tell from the web site if and what their cut of profits or
>>>>>>> equity may be. Can you post that number or those terms here?
>>>>>>> On Oct 6, 2014 8:19 PM, "Biotech Ryan" <ryan.bet...@gmail.com

>>>>>>> <javascript:>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hi All, we (Berkeley Biolabs) are helping the team at SOS ventures
>>>>>>>> and they've just launched their new DIY Bio accelerator in Downtown SF and
>>>>>>>> they're accepting global applications.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> It's super exciting to finally see a real accelerator for DIY Bio in
>>>>>>>> SF, the first class starts this Jan and applications are due soon, so if
>>>>>>>> you have an idea that you're working on and want to get funding SOS
>>>>>>>> ventures is definitely worth applying to. The first batch of companies out
>>>>>>>> of Indie Bio (previously synbioaxlr8r) have been really successful, 4 out
>>>>>>>> of 6 raised their first rounds (between $500k - $2M in the case of Muufri).
>>>>>>>> Congrats to all the teams and apply :)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I talked to Arvind and he said the he'll be looking at applications
>>>>>>>> as they come in so earlier applications have a better chance of getting
>>>>>>>> funded
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> http://indieb.io/apply-to-sf/
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>> <javascript:>.

>>>>>>>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/diybio.
>>>>>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit
>>>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/diybio/28a8c0ba-e6fd-43f5-9217-2e2cbbbc5a5d%40googlegroups.com

>>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/diybio/28a8c0ba-e6fd-43f5-9217-2e2cbbbc5a5d%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>
>>>>>>>> .

>>>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
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>>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/diybio/CA%2B82U9JB3EyWx7c_8vvTnXzPB-2HHRoS14W-k58D0x9vAHwrJA%40mail.gmail.com
>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/diybio/CA%2B82U9JB3EyWx7c_8vvTnXzPB-2HHRoS14W-k58D0x9vAHwrJA%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>
>>>>>>> .

>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
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>>>>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/diybio.
>>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit

>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/diybio/9164E4FB-0383-4C2B-9043-17DD8E523815%40cathalgarvey.me
>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/diybio/9164E4FB-0383-4C2B-9043-17DD8E523815%40cathalgarvey.me?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>
>>>>> .

>>>>>
>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> -Nathan
>>>>
>>>>
>>> --
>>> Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
>>>
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>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/diybio/958A4695-754C-4174-BF2A-46CCDA01124A%40cathalgarvey.me
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>>> .

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>>>
>>
>

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Twitter: @onetruecathal, @formabiolabs
Phone: +353876363185
Blog: http://indiebiotech.com
miniLock.io: JjmYYngs7akLZUjkvFkuYdsZ3PyPHSZRBKNm6qTYKZfAM

[Biotech Ryan]

Love the lively conversation and sorry for the delay, I was busy running an event for XPRIZE on Organogenesis which was all consuming (super cool and I'd love to help out anyone working on 3D bioprinters by the way, if you're working on one let me know :) ).

As far as building early stage biotech projects, what we've seen at Berkeley Biolabs, Biocurious and Counter Culture Labs is that often people underestimate the amount of time it takes to get all their materials and prep lined up prior to starting a project so, while 3 months is pretty ambitious, a 3-6 month range, with the right equipment and planning is doable. I have to admit, I'm incredibly impressed with the teams and the ideas that came out of SynbioAxlr8r (now Indie Bio) and the great work the whole team there did!

Don't forget to apply if you have a neat idea, I think this is finally the beginning of the large scale democratization and commercialization of biology (many of us have been waiting and working a long time for this shift in mindset)

http://indieb.io/

[Bryan Bishop]

On Thu, Oct 9, 2014 at 2:30 PM, Cathal Garvey <cathal...@cathalgarvey.me> wrote:

There certainly will! And, while the last one was not actually run by me
(you can credit Jacob for the success of the first SynbioAxlr8r), the
next one in Cork will be managed by yours truly! :)

Seems a little awkward that they are using your company's name like this. Surely they realize they are taking your name?

- Bryan
http://heybryan.org/
1 512 203 0507

[Cathal Garvey]

Actually, it's my blog's name; my (now-defunct) company's name was
Glowbiotics. They did ask, and I gave the go-ahead to use "Indie Bio" as
the new name of the accelerator, so it's kosher.

[Yuriy Fazylov]

pardon my assumptions

[Dakota Hamill]

I'm typing this on my phone so it won't be super long or articulate.    Could you comment on where you think this accelerator outshines  ycombinator?   Ycombinator gives almost 4x the money for 1% less equity.   They are accepting biotech companies now but I havnt heard about their facilities or science advisors.  They seem much more software driven in a sense, not wet lab.   

[Cathal Garvey]

Good question!

So, I'm not going to trash-talk YCombinator, but I think you are right
in pointing out the divergent approaches. IndieB.io is a more
cosmopolitan programme, aiming out of the box to be global, to have a
good gender balance, and to be intensive on mentorship and inter-team
collaboration. The goal is for IndieB.io to be somewhere between a
pop-up biohackerspace and a hackathon-but-with-sleep; exciting, social,
equipped and peppered with people who can share specialities and experience.

The SF and Cork accelerators will certainly differ in many ways, too;
this would be true even if we tried to homogenise them, which we aren't.
Cork and SF are totally different cities and cultures, but in both
places we're trying to build biohacker-friendly support structures and
attract people from around the world as founders and mentors (or both).
Where possible we'll always try to integrate our stuff with what's
already happening; here in Cork the accelerator is helping with the
local biomakerspace, Forma Labs. This isn't the kind of accelerator
where you just get a heap of cash and a deadline; there's a lot of
shared work and long-term commitments.

As far as the software versus wetware, we're definitely leaning toward
wetware, and we know it's ambitious to ask for a proof of concept in 3
months, but then that's what it's all about, right? You don't need to
have a final product; that'd be an unreasonable ask for many projects.
The point of the accelerator is just that; to accelerate the process, to
have something to show for the work that would have been impossible,
working alone.

Software, hardware and other formats are welcome, but with IndieB.io the
point was always to be ambitious about Synbio itself. :)

Anyways, it's early days; SynbioAxlr8r, AFAIK, was the first announced
accelerator, and remains one of only two in the world. We've had our
first run, hit a few of the unforeseeables, and learned a lot; things
are going to evolve a lot and we're gonna see how quickly we can adapt
the programme to the still-young field of synthetic biology/biohacking.
The teams who take part will play a huge role in taking us there.

Hope that helps, sorry if it was too wishy-washy. Tomorrow's my first
day on the job, cut me some slack. ;)

[Cathal Garvey]

No pardons necessary, Yuriy: one of the first ever teams for
SynbioAxlr8r was Revolution Bio, and we knew then that plants would be
hard. Those two were a rockstar team, they were part of the team behind
the somewhat famous "bomb detecting plants" project of yore!

Aand, when we hit some road-bumps, they suffered the most, because
plants take longer than bacteria. We'd do it again, I think, given the
choice. Revbio are a great team with an ambitious mission, and the
history to back up their proposed project. If we did it again, we'd know
better how to help them get their project in gear early, and to help
them iterate fast enough to keep up with the others.

But, it remains the case that plants are harder to do in 3 months than
microbes! So, if you've got several ideas, and one is a plant, lean to
the other ideas first unless you have a great team and the necessary skills.

Remember, we're happy to accept multiple proposals from people, so you
can also just apply for all your good ideas, and see what fits. :)

[Will Canine]

Hi Everyone!

Just want to throw in my two cents. 

First of all, OpenTrons is part of Haxlr8r, a hardware accelerator based in Shenzhen also run by SOS Ventures. Being here has been an awesome experience for us. We went from a prototype and an idea, to a product and a manufacturing operation through the program -- we're launching our Kickstarter at the end of this month! I think that "in-house," focused accelerators like Hax and IndieB.io are a really great resource for entrepreneurs and start-ups, and SOSV run a lot of them. 

Also, OpenTrons is also going to be working with IndieB.io to automate teams' labwork! 

From my perspective, directly comparing an "in-house" accelerator like IndieB.io (or Hax) with more of a "club" type of accelerator like what YC has grown to be is a little apples to oranges. With IndieB.io you are given a lean early runway, a full lab to work in, direct access to in-house experts + mentors, and immersed in a vibrant peer group every day; with Y-Combinator you are written a nice check, get the prestige (valuation bump) that comes with the YC brand, and rub elbows with important people in Palo Alto once a week (if you are a software company, the laptop space and free coffee are probs nice too). Both approaches are super valuable for entrepreneurs, and I dont see them being mutually exclusive. I could definitely see companies going through IndieB.io, and then joining Y-Combinator to continue scaling up. 

Seems to boil down to a difference in phase. IndieB.io took in a bunch of entrepreneurs/scientists with ideas and launched five real companies. Both the YC biotech companies (Ginko and Glowing Plants) were past the initial proof of concept/market phase when they were accepted, and have since raised money to continue scaling up. Both accelerators are great resources for bio start-ups! The choice is more about where you are as a company and what you need to grow.

Hope that helps and would be happy to talk to anyone thinking about applying to any of the above! 

Thanks,

Will 

[Cathal Garvey]

Thanks will! Really well said. The gulf between where teams *are* when
they enter the programmes is a really significant difference between the
programmes, and it's why we don't really feel that it's a competition
thing as much as an ecosystem thing.

The point of IndieB.io is to have something that helps people make their
ideas happen in record time. That means team-building, inter-team
collaboration, assistance forming and organising a company, providing a
lab-space and on-site experts and mentors, training in communications
and marketing, and troubleshooting all of the above when things go awry
or not to plan, or if a pivot is in order.

In brief, it's not just a hot-desk and an investment! :)

(Plus, Cork is great and you get to weekend around Ireland in summer;
long days, fair weather, great surfing!)

On 13/10/14 07:30, Will Canine wrote:
> Hi Everyone!
>
> Just want to throw in my two cents.
>

> First of all, OpenTrons <http://opentrons.com> is part of Haxlr8r
> <http://haxlr8r.com>, a hardware accelerator based in Shenzhen also run

[Cathal Garvey]

Hey Ryan!

Thanks for your thoughts, replies inline;

On 11/10/14 18:34, Biotech Ryan wrote:
> Love the lively conversation and sorry for the delay, I was busy running an
> event for XPRIZE on Organogenesis which was all consuming

DO WANT. :) Can't wait for bioprinters to become ready for prime-time;
new hearts for all!

> As far as building early stage biotech projects, what we've seen at
> Berkeley Biolabs, Biocurious and Counter Culture Labs is that often people
> underestimate the amount of time it takes to get all their materials and
> prep lined up prior to starting a project so, while 3 months is pretty
> ambitious, a 3-6 month range, with the right equipment and planning is
> doable.
> I have to admit, I'm incredibly impressed with the teams and the
> ideas that came out of SynbioAxlr8r (now Indie Bio) and the great
> work the whole team there did!

3 months *is* ambitious, no question of that. SynbioAxlr8r was the first
ever such event, and the fact that we did so well on the first go was,
in itself, a coup. I'm lucky to be coming in year 2, because I get to
learn from the first experience. I'm sure the year 1 entrepreneurs would
have loved *not* to have taught us all these lessons, but that's the
nature of first-timers, and SynbioAxlr8r was the first of its kind.
IndieB.io will be only the second of its kind, so there's still loads of
room to figure out the format.

Suffice to say, 3 months is ambitious, and for that reason it's not
expected that you have a *finished product* by then; that'd be absurd.
Rather, that you've hit a point where the direction and viability of the
project is clear, and that you've had a chance to make a few prototypes
thanks to partnerships with rapid-turnaround gene synthesis partners (a
part of the program that hit some..hiccups..last year, and may call for
some bet-hedging this time around!) and mentorship with experts in the
field of DNA/RNA/Protein engineering. Not to mention idea-sharing with
other teams, which is (IMO) the most valuable part of our format,
although it's impossible to quantify by nature.

> Don't forget to apply if you have a neat idea, I think this is finally the
> beginning of the large scale democratization and commercialization of
> biology (many of us have been waiting and working a long time for this
> shift in mindset)
>
> http://indieb.io/

Thanks for the plug, and yea; we're open to any and all applications.
Don't worry about the "polished-ness" of your applications, just shoot
me an email before making a proposal to discuss things. We're human at
our end, the formatting of the proposal is irrelevant; what's important
is the science, the project, the product, and the people.

Really can't wait for May to work with the teams, whomever they may be. :)

[Yuriy Fazylov]

I got a series of somewhat stupid questions.

What happens to the rejected ideas?

Who gets to review them & Are members of the selection board allowed to have a spin off of the submitted ideas without reaching out to the idea originator?

One cannot help but wonder if this collaboration could be pooling ideas to polish and invest in them independently.

What stops IndieBio or associated entities from claiming a few entries of the same idea came in?

Where are the guidelines?

[Cathal Garvey]

They're not stupid, and if you know me then you'll know I'm no stranger
to practical paranoia. ;)

Before addressing all specifically, let me just point out that biotech
is an ocean of potentially good ideas. Swim in it long enough, and
you'll get bitten by inspiration tens of times. There's literally not
enough time in the world to pursue them all, and odds are that by the
time you hear someone else's good idea, you're already busy with one of
your own. We're not starved for ideas, here. We're not fishing for good
ideas to steal. We're fishing for good teams to pull them off! :)

> What happens to the rejected ideas?

Nothing. Confidentiality is kept absolutely, and no ownership or
infringement of submitted ideas is even considered; they are your ideas,
and yours alone. Do them with us, or do them elsewhere, or don't do them
at all (but history shows someone will eventually have the same idea and
do it anyway, so beware of wasting time).

> Who gets to review them & Are members of the selection board allowed
> to have a spin off of the submitted ideas without reaching out to the
> idea originator?

As a closely involved mentor last year, I was also part of the review
panel. At no stage did any of us disclose the ideas to uninvolved third
parties. None of us stole any ideas to do ourselves. Why would we?

As above, I was already busy with another great idea I was more
interested in; as far as I'm concerned, there's simply no attraction to
stealing the idea for, say, artificial milk (hey, Muufri!) and dropping
all of the stuff I'm passionate about.

Besides, by having the teams who came up with the idea come on-board, I
*do* get to work on artificial milk, or colour changing plants, or
artificial cannabinoids, or hagfish silk..all without the pressure of
actually having to handle 10 amazing projects alone.

> One cannot help but wonder if this collaboration could be pooling
> ideas to polish and invest in them independently.

Er, as above. I'll take that in the best of faith and not be offended. :)

The goal of the accelerator is to help teams get to a stage where
they're better developed, as teams and as projects. Then, we help teams
to raise follow-on funding. Do we get something out of this? Yes:
initial equity, and whatever investments made afterwards during the
fundraising stage at the end at the discretion of the teams. But SOS
Ventures (who is, yes, now my employer) is a pretty nice VC.

As a prior recipient of SOSV funding with Glowbiotics, which tanked
badly, I can tell you that they don't try to rake teams for money, nor
to control the way teams run their business. Heck, I hear the guys here
fretting about how often start-ups take bad deals from third parties
that take away their control of the company; SOSV would rather the
start-up founders remain in-charge and proceed as partners. That's true
of new and established teams.

> What stops IndieBio or associated entities from claiming a few
> entries of the same idea came in?

Eh, nothing. And, indeed, many people may submit the same idea; that's
the nature of innovation. You're not a precious diamond, you're a person
with a great idea. Other people in similar situations with similar
inputs may have the same idea, and often do. If they all submit at once,
there you go.

If you mean "how do we choose whose idea to back", that's a complicated
question. We might choose to put teams with similar teams in touch and
see if collaboration emerges; there was one such case with SBX, but I
shan't say more. If the teams aren't interested in fusing, or if it
wouldn't work for some reason, we'd likely back the team with the best
overall features. That's not just "ideas and skills", it's culture,
mindset and experience.

> Where are the guidelines?

With respect to what? We do need to flesh out our FAQ, so I'm not being
cheeky; I'd love to know what other questions or concerns you have so we
can make the answers available to everyone soon.

Guidelines for submission are pretty straightforward, though I'm sure we
have a privacy/submission policy from last year and that, or a more
recent edition, would take priority over this:

* Teams can submit any ideas they like, with descriptions of the
idea, the proposed market, the team and their experience, any
work done to prove feasibility, etcetera.
* Ideas should be legal and feasible to develop in a Class 2 lab
in SF or Cork, and should have a market that it's legal and
feasible to sell to. Hyasynth proposed synthetic cannabinoids,
but were able to suggest legal markets worldwide for various
uses of those cannabinoids.
* Submissions are just that, and imply no transfer of ownership.
Nor do submissions allow us to enforce ownership, only to offer
you the accelerator package and an investment deal in a company.
At no stage do you lose control or ownership over your ideas or
output, although we'd love if you view it as a partnership that's
beneficial to you and to us.
* You do not need to patent or otherwise establish "IP" over any
of your work, but you will need to discuss how you will market
your work, whether or not you have a monopoly on ideas or life.
This is part of the mentorship that the accelerator provides,
so don't sweat it.

Like I said, if you're not ready to make a proposal but want to discuss
ideas and viability, contact me on or off-list. I will keep confidence
and not discuss your ideas or projects with anyone outside the
accelerator, whether or not you apply. Not in this to steal ideas, I
promise. :)

[Yuriy Fazylov]

That's what I was looking for, some form of privacy policy. I couldn't find it on this site/iteration.

[Cathal Garvey]

Well then, sir, take this as my honourable commitment (until we put a
privacy policy or submission policy squarely on the website) that any
ideas submitted to the programme won't be nicked. As explained in the
previous email, submissions we don't choose to use will remain
confidential and entirely yours, and queries in advance of submission
will be likewise kept in strictest confidence.

I've BCC'd the directors of the SF programme, Arvind Gupta and Jacob
Shiach, so they can chip in with any info they care to offer. :)

Anyways, applications are open for SF but not yet for Cork; don't let
that stop you reaching out to me privately to discuss things. For
students in particular, or European friends, the Cork accelerator is
perfectly timed and placed. :)

On 13/10/14 21:00, Yuriy Fazylov wrote:
> That's what I was looking for, some form of privacy policy. I couldn't find it on this site/iteration.
>

[Steve]

Well Yuriy, I heard a very similar question posed to a venture capitalist a few months ago (not someone from SOS btw).  The gist of the question was "should I ask a potential investor to sign a non-disclosure agreement?"
The response was along the lines of "hmmm, you could ask. . ."  the VC in question said he would not sign one.  If someone comes to his door looking for an investment in a project without a certain level of trust, a quid-pro-quo that the disclosure of confidential/sensitive topics won't be abused, then he doesn't want to do business with them.
It's a risk.  However it is NOT good business for a VC or committee in such a situation to steal your ideas.
It's about trust ultimately.

[Cathal Garvey]

Yea, there is a certain message that someone sends when they ask you for
perfect, legally enforceable secrecy instead of trusting you on your
word. They don't trust you, and that's not a good place to start from
when you want to enter a mutually beneficial partnership. Communication
and collaboration are key, and when someone starts locking a partner
out, both parties lose out.

So, no; we don't truck in non-disclosure agreements for applications.
But, we don't disclose anything to people outside the programme, either.
Rather, we coach teams on how best to disclose their own work when they
are ready to.

[Yuriy Fazylov]

Yeah anecdotes.

These were stupid questions as stated before. They mainly stem from the fact that I want to apply but at this time don't know know anyone who would even entertain the idea of being uprooted and move for 90-100 days to start a biotech company, given the heads up of less than a month. They are either teaching or studying.

This leads me to a not so stupid question. Do you hire lab techs for lone researchers, should one (1) be accepted?

I don't doubt that you run an honorable program but you are running it under a new brand. Responsebilities diffuse in a larger system. That was the other basis of my questions.

[Cathal Garvey]

> They mainly stem from
> the fact that I want to apply but at this time don't know know anyone
> who would even entertain the idea of being uprooted and move for
> 90-100 days to start a biotech company, given the heads up of less
> than a month. They are either teaching or studying.

Well, there are two IndieB.ios planned right now; one in SF starting in
January, and the other in Cork starting May. So, if you don't have a
team ready for SF or if your team (or you) are studying, Cork may be a
better fit for you.

> This leads me to a not so stupid question. Do you hire lab techs for
> lone researchers, should one (1) be accepted?

In short, no: we don't hire staff to pad out singleton teams. And, while
teams will have peer support from other teams (inter-team secrecy or
isolation is not really acceptable on a program like this, it undermines
the whole point of a peered accelerator) and mentorship and support from
the IndieB.io team, in the end it's your project and you need to be able
to carry it.

Let me say, having *been* a singleton entrepreneur, that it's punishing.
You don't want to be a lone entrepreneur, I promise you. The accelerator
will help, but even if that works out then after 3 months unless you and
some other teams decide to move into shared lab-space or a
biomakerspace, you're back on your own.

So, if you can get a team together, get one. Sadly, single entrepreneurs
are a much more dangerous bet for the accelerator, and being alone makes
you less likely to be accepted into the programme.

> I don't doubt that you run an honorable program but you are running
> it under a new brand. Responsebilities diffuse in a larger system.
> That was the other basis of my questions.

Well, a new name. And yes, larger systems mean that you can't trust the
honour of the individuals within the system, so I sympathise. I can only
offer you my own good intentions, and my good-faith belief that everyone
involved in this is similarly well-intentioned.

[Yuriy Fazylov]

I' m in.

[Cathal Garvey]

This seems to have hit the list late, and I'm not sure what it referred
to! Or perhaps I didn't get the reference. :)

On 07/10/14 18:27, Christopher Kelly wrote:
> Hopefully we get some stellar Paul Graham style essays as well!

[Bryan Bishop]

On Tue, Oct 14, 2014 at 8:51 AM, Cathal Garvey <cathal...@cathalgarvey.me> wrote:

to! Or perhaps I didn't get the reference. :)

You should read every single one of these:

http://paulgraham.com/articles.html

[Cathal (Phone)]

Looks fun, thanks!

[Dakota Hamill]

In certain cases I'd hope single founder applicants wouldn't be seen as a liability to investors otherwise I'm SOL.  In many cases its hard to find someone else willing to suffer alongside you in pursuit of the real deal.  Everyone wants to be an entrepreneur, but not everyone wants to sell their personal belongings to buy synthesis reagents instead of beer.  Everyone wants to be a millionaire, but not everyone wants to end the lease on their apartment to sleep on a blow up mattress in order to buy time on an LCMS.  Being alone doesn't mean you're a bad scientist, it means you haven't found someone else willing to bleed as much as you.  

[Cathal Garvey]

By the way, the application form for the Cork and SF programmes are both
live, for applications:

http://indieb.io/apply-to-ireland/
http://indieb.io/apply-to-sf/

In both cases, remember the following:
* You can apply to both, or for multiple projects.
* Application is not an agreement to participate on your part; that
comes later. So you stand to lose nothing by applying, you can always
turn down if we make you an offer.
* Ownership over and confidentiality of your ideas is guaranteed
throughout and after the application process, whether or not you are
offered or accepted into the programme(s).
* Be sure to email me if you make an application, just in case it
doesn't reach me directly yet. We're still working on the Cork/SF
split and there may be hiccups.

Happy applying, hope to see some fun projects!
best,
Cathal

[Kevin Chen]

Nice discussion here! Although, I seem to be the first one of the participants in the first round of teams posting here.

The hype is good and all, but there's a lot more to consider before signing anything. Definitely apply, but there are certain things to watch out for before you commit. There is at least a bit of misinformation going on here. I'll leave it at that without going into too much detail.

Also, I'd be happy to help you out, for free. I would also recommend reaching out to some of the other teams involved as well.

Kevin

[Cathal (Phone)]

Hey Kevin,

Sorry it appears misinforming to you. All I can say is that I'm speaking honestly about my plans for IndieB.io Cork.

Thanks for chipping in, though, and I would love to hear more from past teams about how to improve the programme.

Best,
Cathal

[Kevin Chen]

Definitely! I'm not trying to undermine the value of the program, or doubt the honesty of your words. I think you're in the clear.

But, over-hype can be a dangerous thing. I mostly want to add another perspective to the conversation, other than the folks running it.

Cheers,

Kevin

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Hyasynth Bio: COO, Co-founder 

Bricobio: Co-founder

@bkevinchen

[Dakota Hamill]

What things specifically?  You left us with a cliffhanger

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[Biotech Ryan]

Hey All, 

I feel some responsibility as I started the post and I have been excited by the work that SOS ventures have been doing on multiple fronts, from early stage hardware to biotech.

I've spoken and met with several of the teams when they came to visit us at Berkeley Biolabs after their demo day and I think in general, what Kevin is probably referring too is the fact that the program in Cork was a first run program, with all the lessons learned that you'd probably expect from the first test run of an innovative biotech program and they will be fixed.

Saying that, I think it's important to highlight success and to congratulate the teams that were part of the accelerator (including Kevin and the team) and SOS, building and funding early stage biotech startups is HARD (I've done it three times now and it was like pulling teeth) and 4 out of 6 of the companies from the Indie Bio program raised significant rounds after their class. 3 raised $500k and the fourth, Muufri, raised $2M (a huge success, both from a technological and ethical perspective).

SOS put their money where their mouth was and took big financial risks on early stage entrepreneurs, how many others do or would do that ?

Now, let's build some kick ass biotechs :)

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/article/20141015071255-2371689-5-reasons-why-now-is-the-time-to-start-a-biotech?trk=prof-post

p.s. when I spoke with Arvind and he said if anyone had any questions to feel free to email him through the Indie Bio website and he'd be happy to answer any questions.

All the best,

Ryan

[Kevin Chen]

Yep, sorry for the cliffhanger! And I think I'll leave it there. My main goal is to add some more general awareness about this whole concept, and what people should watch out for. We've definitely come across some sharks along our path :)

I have no doubts that that now is a good time to try this stuff out. But, I would ask a lot of questions and get perspectives before being enticed into one particular path. Biotech/synbio is becoming a pretty crazy place right now in a lot of different places.

I'm avoiding going into specifics just because I'm afraid it would be more like an "I said this..." "you said that.." kind of argument, which doesn't really get us anywhere. (Apologies for the vague-ness)

There's probably a really good discussion to be had here about different cases, opportunities, and ways of doing an epic startup (which may or may not include an accelerator). It would be awesome to see more people from this list getting into this kind of thing.

Ryan, which teams have finished raising? Your info might be more up to date than mine. It would be great to know where our friends are at!

Cheers,

Kevin

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[Dakota Hamill]

My dream is that someday, scientists will be funding other scientists, and the people in the white coats won't have to be begging from the people in the grey suits and fancy ties to fund research that could change humanity.

The more I read Arthur C Clarke the more I want a technocracy to happen.

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[Bryan Bishop]

On Thu, Oct 16, 2014 at 10:22 PM, Dakota Hamill <dko...@gmail.com> wrote:

My dream is that someday, scientists will be funding other scientists, and the people in the white coats won't have to be begging from the people in the grey suits and fancy ties to fund research that could change humanity.

On that line of thought, I have been wondering for a while now: what would the requirements be for a change in the economy where science talent becomes as rewarded as sales talent or almost any non-science profession that pays well over a long career? For example, what would be the circumstances that lead to a scenario where a really, really unbelievably good scientist makes $700,000/year on the market? Just someone running lots of "virtual biotech companies"? Someone slapping together Heroku-oops-I-mean-Transcriptic programs? I don't really know. But I also know that paying everyone the same is dumb, and that I am happy to hire as many postdocs as possible at $40k/year for sure.

[Patrik D'haeseleer]

On Monday, October 13, 2014 2:18:02 PM UTC-7, Cathal (Phone) wrote:

Yea, there is a certain message that someone sends when they ask you for
perfect, legally enforceable secrecy instead of trusting you on your
word. They don't trust you, and that's not a good place to start from
when you want to enter a mutually beneficial partnership. Communication
and collaboration are key, and when someone starts locking a partner
out, both parties lose out.

Sorry, but I've got to call bullshit on that. NDA's are not a sign of a lack of trust. They are completely standard business practice whenever you're working between partners that have some IP rights to protect. They *allow* you to open up to each other to a far greater extent than you would otherwise.

It's just that the power balance between VC and startup is so extremely lopsided that the VCs can set whatever terms they damn well like. Sure, they have no intention of stealing your ideas. But why should they bother with an NDA when there's a dozen other startups in line behind you who are willing to waive the NDA? I bet they also feel that signing all those NDAs would overly constrain themselves in being able to give good advice to the companies they back (in other words: some of that good advice may actually have come from conversations they've had with *other* startups...)

[Cathal Garvey]

Well, it does constrain, significantly so. Most NDAs that a non-idiot
would sign willingly (that is, not when forced to by employment terms)
are limited in duration to two or fewer years, but that's two years of
always wondering whether you can discuss a certain sector of technology,
or whether you can freely say how your day at the lab was with those
guys you signed an NDA with.

Now, when I signed up with SOSV, I signed a contract stipulating that I
would maintain the confidentiality of SOSV's business, that of its
partner and portfolio companies, and other associated business. That
would naturally include applications to IndieB.io. If someone asks me to
sign an NDA over and above my expected, ethical, and contractual
obligations to maintain confidentiality, I'll refuse, because layering
NDAs on NDAs both pointless and constraining on my ability to help
companies through networking and direct assistance.

Not only that, NDAs are often signed "blind": I sign a document that I
won't disclose, discuss, or otherwise use information you give me on
topic X, because I want to know and you're only going to tell me under
NDA. Then you tell me something I already knew. What then? I've just
"lost" knowledge for 2 years because I promised not to use what you just
told me.

I get what you're saying, and I'd probably be more inclined to NDAs if I
were the person issuing them, because in that case the liability is on
the other party, right? So, from one side of the deal, it always seems
perfectly reasonable, whereas from the other it seems needlessly
constraining. Somewhere in the middle is probably most useful, where
there's some assurance of confidentiality and not-stealing-ideas, but
without constraining the ability of the disclosee to work and
communicate normally.

So, if it helps, now ye know that I have a pseudo-NDA with respect to
the work I'm charged to do, including applications. We'll get a formal
privacy and submission policy together, too; that's an oversight and I
do consider it important to have a clear, unambiguous but readable
policy in place.

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[Mega [Andreas Stuermer]]

>My dream is that someday, scientists will be funding other scientists, and the people in the white coats won't have to be begging from the people in the grey suits and fancy ties to fund research that could change humanity.

Resource based economy, The Venus Project... would be a really nice concept to live in. Robots produce all we need, nobody has to take low-skilled jobs... Humans focus on creativity, biotech, medicine, or art if they want. Nobody would kill or steal for money or a bike because you get it free anyway.

We haven't arrived there yet, unfortunately. Not technical, but humanitie's perspective must change.

[Josiah Zayner]

I have a question and maybe you know Cathal or maybe Jacob could answer. $35k is obviously not enough to start a company and and to pay a team of highly skilled individuals to live in SF for a period of months.

If I were doing an incubator trying to attract Biotech people, if they were any good, I would expect that they would have a job already. If you have 3 people on a team for 3 months that's ~$3k per person per month and nothing left over. For instance, I live in the SF area and my rent is $1500/month and my apartment is not big enough for a team to live in. I could not live off of the $1500 left over based on my expenses.

What are the expectations? Do they expect everyone from a team to be working full-time on this project?

Kevin, I would be interested to hear what you have to say about the "incubator".

[Matt Lawes]

Speaking as a biotech entrepreneur who hasn't been paid for 3 years ....

If you don't have the passion and the ability to suffer pain of an emotional and financial nature ... don't found a start up or be part of the founding team.

If you are chained to a paycheck, you have already checked out and given up and you'll never be an entrepreneur.

Accelerators serve to prove out an idea by quick technical proof of concept or breadboarding ... that is what the $35k is for. Successful 'exit' from the accerator should happen if there is ALSO commercial utility and opportunity to the idea and private investors, seed funds, SBIR type mechanisms can begin to pay for people. Until then it is all sweat equity.

Best,

>matt

Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE DROID

Josiah Zayner <josiah...@gmail.com> wrote:

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[Nathan McCorkle]

On Fri, Oct 17, 2014 at 10:25 AM, Matt Lawes <ma...@insysx.com> wrote:

Speaking as a biotech entrepreneur who hasn't been paid for 3 years ....

I haven't been paid for my entrepreneurship except with equity in myself :)

 

If you don't have the passion and the ability to suffer pain of an emotional and financial nature ... don't found a start up or be part of the founding team. 

If you are chained to a paycheck, you have already checked out and given up and you'll never be an entrepreneur.

Gotta work off school loans... will come back to poor college student lifestyle after that. Nothing is forever. Entrepreneurship is just slowed down. Making school cheaper/more accessible seems like a more annoying challenge than raising $35k, but one which is also potentially much more impactful.

[Nathan McCorkle]

On Fri, Oct 17, 2014 at 10:18 AM, Josiah Zayner <josiah...@gmail.com> wrote:

I have a question and maybe you know Cathal or maybe Jacob could answer. $35k is obviously not enough to start a company and and to pay a team of highly skilled individuals to live in SF for a period of months.

If I were doing an incubator trying to attract Biotech people, if they were any good, I would expect that they would have a job already. If you have 3 people on a team for 3 months that's ~$3k per person per month and nothing left over. For instance, I live in the SF area and my rent is $1500/month and my apartment is not big enough for a team to live in. I could not live off of the $1500 left over based on my expenses.

To each their own... I lived right next to UC Berkeley for a summer and was paying $200 a week... the fridge was about to fall through the floor into the apartment below and hot water in the shower was non-deterministic... but it worked and was literally right next to campus.

It does seem like providing a dorm-room boarding would be encouraging/enabling for people who don't already live in SF or Cork. I bet the accelerator could manager to get a better rate if they were renting units in bulk.

[Cathal Garvey]

Preface: In know know of SF what I've learned from reading Cory Doctorow
and watching terrible movies. :) I'm aware it has a high price on
everything, a serious homelessness problem, and that it's annexing
Oakland, from a recently returned friend who lived there, but that's
about the size of my current knowledge!

Anyways:

> $35k is obviously not enough to start a company and and to pay a team
> of highly skilled individuals to live in SF for a period of months.

You may have the wrong scale in mind. We're not looking for people at a
stage where they're hiring staff, we're looking for teams of passionate
cofounders with a mission in mind.

Now, is 30K enough? For 3 months, maybe, but after that you're probably
in trouble without additional funding. That's the point, though. You're
expected to spend that money hammering out a proof of concept (not a
final prototype, but bonus points if you do you lucky nutcase) and
developing a plan, a pitch, and a product based on that concept. If you
succeed, then at the end of the 3 months you'll be able to attract the
funding you need to continue research at a pay-grade closer to humane
(although start-ups rarely pay founders much for years, even if they
succeed; don't do a start-up if you want comfort).

Honest truth time: I couldn't do it, at my current stage of life. I have
kids to support, and scraping by on essentially subsistence money for 3
months, working full time, would bankrupt my family. Nathan alludes to
similar conditions as a student with a debt burden. Accelerators of this
kind aren't for everyone, and I'm not referring to personality or
gumption or whatever; it's just not possible to do this for some people,
and there's not much we can do to change that.

For those who can endure a 3-month period of relative asceticism, they
get access to a fully equipped lab, excellent peers to work alongside,
top-class mentorship and coaching, and the possibility to launch
something with world-changing potential. It'll be fun, engaging, and you
won't have time to worry about your inability to afford a new phone, or
the fact that your diet isn't as lavish or varied as you'd like.

At the end of that..no promises; success is an uneven and rapidly
shifting ratio of luck to privilege to hard work. In our first, least
experienced and fairly unlucky year, 4/6 of the teams have received or
are considering accepting further funding. I'm willing to call that a
success, and if hard work was a factor in that success, then I think we
can arrange a better programme next year (privilege) and hedge on a few
of the FAILs that occurred (luck) to stack the odds further in favour of
the teams.

That's all I can offer, I guess. If cost is a factor, consider Cork over
SF, because the cost of living here, while high by EU standards, is far
and away cheaper than SF. ;)

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[Cathal Garvey]

> I bet the accelerator could manager to get a better rate if they were
> renting units in bulk.

I hope this is true, because here in Cork we're contemplating
facilitated accom for the teams. However, few rentiers are interested in
renting for only ~3 months, unless you look a student-grade accom
(because it's summer), but we're not precisely placed in the calendar to
take advantage of this accom, either.

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[John Griessen]

On 10/17/2014 02:39 PM, Cathal Garvey wrote:
> If cost is a factor, consider Cork over SF, because the cost of living here, while high by EU standards, is far and away cheaper
> than SF.

Good to know. Would Indie Bio go for a lab equipment venture?

[John Griessen]

On 10/17/2014 02:57 PM, Cathal Garvey wrote:
> (because it's summer), but we're not precisely placed in the calendar to take advantage of this accom, either.

That might make a big difference... What is stopping that from time slot aligning?

[Cathal (Phone)]

Emphatically, yes: Briefcase Biotec (AKA Kilobaser) was one of team 2014, is much beloved! :)

Of course, it's first and foremost a Synbio accelerator, but that includes all dimensions of synbio: wetware, software, hardware. An incubator might not cut it, but Kilobaser is a microfluidic DNA synthesiser; a clear fit.

[BraveScience]

I'm definitely curious to learn more from people that went through Cork's edition this year.
Is there any website summarizing what people have done last edition? I didn't find anything significant till now.

As I am working in a R&D start up company (third generation biofuel/high added value molecules) I see the hurdles we have to get through as well as the great possibilities for the next future.
Still, as Kevin pointed out here, on the web you can see "just" a lot of hype about the topic. That actually sounds quite nice, at least to me.
Guess we're mising a tiny bit of information.

I'd love to join the accelerator challenge though.

[Yuriy Fazylov]

What are the advantages to SF? Why is it biannually in SF?

Why not do it in NYC once in a blue moon? It’s the other place where you can find a ton of VCs?

NY is becoming BioTech friendly. There are even meetups for VCs for BioTech. I am not sure how start-up friendly bureaucrats are.

Find out more at http://startup.ny.gov/. Having just revisited that site after not being there for a long time, I see a lot less detail than I did before, but there is still a features such as taxfree (virtually all tax forms) operations and company employee living.

On Tuesday, October 7, 2014 12:58:18 PM UTC-4, Cathal (Phone) wrote:

Yep! Now a bi-yearly SF/Cork phenomenon. Yay Cork!

On 7 October 2014 17:39:12 GMT+01:00, Nathan McCorkle <nmz...@gmail.com> wrote:

Ahh so this is what SynBioAxlr8r became?

On Tue, Oct 7, 2014 at 9:05 AM, Cathal (Phone) <cathal...@cathalgarvey.me> wrote:

That's right, thanks Dakota. Speaking from direct involvement, there's a lot of intangible goodness involved, in terms of access to skilled mentorship (beyond those listed on the site) and contacts who can help with a project. This year's run in Cork was the first ever, and despite that and all the attached teething issues, it was great fun and very successful. Can't wait for next Summer's programme!

On 7 October 2014 16:21:34 GMT+01:00, Dakota Hamill <dko...@gmail.com> wrote:

$35,000 for 8% is what I read on the site

On Tue, Oct 7, 2014 at 11:17 AM, Nathan McCorkle <nmz...@gmail.com> wrote:

I can't tell from the web site if and what their cut of profits or equity may be. Can you post that number or those terms here?

On Oct 6, 2014 8:19 PM, "Biotech Ryan" <ryan.bet...@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi All, we (Berkeley Biolabs) are helping the team at SOS ventures and they've just launched their new DIY Bio accelerator in Downtown SF and they're accepting global applications. 

It's super exciting to finally see a real accelerator for DIY Bio in SF, the first class starts this Jan and applications are due soon, so if you have an idea that you're working on and want to get funding SOS ventures is definitely worth applying to. The first batch of companies out of Indie Bio (previously synbioaxlr8r) have been really successful, 4 out of 6 raised their first rounds (between $500k - $2M in the case of Muufri). Congrats to all the teams and apply :)

I talked to Arvind and he said the he'll be looking at applications as they come in so earlier applications have a better chance of getting funded

http://indieb.io/apply-to-sf/

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[Biotech Ryan]

Hey All, I just wanted to respond to Patrik's comment about NDA's and share a broader thought on scientific entreprenership.

I think it's just a simplicity thing, not a power thing, I've signed probably several hundred NDA's in my corporate life (and worked with companies like Pfizer, Amgen, Genentech, Sanofi and etc), I've also pitched to several dozen angels and vc's with my biotech startup hat on and even light NDA's are a pain to execute and track. Imagine having to sign an NDA for anything that anyone wants to discuss with you and then tracking that for 5, 10 years or indefinitely, it's just not a pragmatic way to operate. NDA's do make sense for deep technology dives and some venture firms will sign them during due diligence but those are usually cases where there's trade secrets, patents pending or patents. Not usually idea stage startups (with little to no built technology).

One lesson I've learnt having worked with and also starting biotech startups is that talk is cheap. Everyone has an idea but few actually try to make it a reality, the making part is hard. Many people say they have brilliant ideas and never prove they can build those ideas or sell to those markets. Being an entrepreneur isn't an easy path but for some of us the idea of riding that dragon to make your mind's eye vision a reality is worth it, even though there's a good chance you'll fail, what if you don't

[Mega [Andreas Stuermer]]

The question is, does everyone have to become an enterpreneur? Wouldn't it be smart to have something like an agency that gives you room and equipment and funding in trade for honour and part of the profit? Biohackerspaces are a first step to meeting people with enterpreneurial skill (or the will to learn them). Or the accelerator. 

> Everyone has an idea but few actually try to make it a reality, the making part is hard. 

I have to disagree for some cases. Biotech is pretty young, so you can do a lot with pretty little effort. 

Take spider silk. We know the amino acid sequence, and if you want to ,make a spider goat (see the youtube video) all you have to do is have that gene synthesized in an apropriate vector (500-2000$) and microinject. A ready-to use microinjection device is probably also 10.000 $ or more.

Then comes goverment regluation - will it be illegal to do so? 

Summary - to find a promoter that ejects the protein in milk glands is easy to find. The silk protein sequence is also known. To design a construct takes like 2 hours, and 3 days to review and think how to improve expression.

Then you'll need the money for all the consumables, equipment, etc etc., paperwork, etc. 

Assuming goat sperm is available from farmer's sources for sperm-mediated transfection. 

[Cathal Garvey]

> The question is, does everyone have to become an enterpreneur?

God no, that'd be awful. But also, not everyone should be a research
scientist, either. Some ideas or projects are best expressed as a
business, others would be ruined by commercialisation. So I wouldn't
encourage someone to pigeon-hole an idea into a commercial context just
to apply for an accelerator, and if they did I think it would be
obvious, and a clear turn-off for investors anyway.

> if you want to, make a spider goat (see the youtube video) all you
> have to do...

I've said it before, but you really underestimate the effort involved in
making transgenic multicellular things! :)

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[Biotech Ryan]

Love the spider silk idea by the way and today we're announcing this, I'm excited to be a part of it and hopefully work with a few more of you!

http://techcrunch.com/2014/10/22/sosventures-takes-on-y-combinator-with-a-pure-biotech-accelerator/

[John Griessen]

On 10/22/2014 02:46 PM, Cathal Garvey wrote:
> you really underestimate the effort involved in making transgenic multicellular things!

Yes, "all you have to do" is not realistic talk... To say nothing of ethics of
chimera modifying "almost sentient" animals... It's so much more productive to
talk about single celled GMO's, and maybe a few plants, and definitely
symbioses with plants. Plus the process machinery to support useful outcomes.

[Nathan McCorkle]

On Wed, Oct 22, 2014 at 2:39 PM, John Griessen <jo...@industromatic.com> wrote:

On 10/22/2014 02:46 PM, Cathal Garvey wrote:

you really underestimate the effort involved in making transgenic multicellular things!

Yes,  "all you have to do" is not realistic talk... 

Well, except that this specifically isn't innovation... it's more like verifying the prior art works. It /is/ 'all you have to do' TODAY... and of course to put an immediate time scale to the solution would require thousands 10s of thousands of dollars... on a longer 'DIY everything' track, it would still be $1000s of dollars I think, but much much much longer than 'immediately'.

[Mega [Andreas Stuermer]]

I've said it before, but you really underestimate the effort involved in 

making transgenic multicellular things! 

'Tis true, unless you know someone who regularily does this and you can just send him/her the DNA. Then for you it is quite easy, standing on the shoulders of giants.  

For microinjection it seems you need sophisticated equipment and expertise, though there is a hack for that. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11964188

Maybe I still underestimate, but I got the mentality to never give up, and if it doesn't work, try it another way. 

[Mega [Andreas Stuermer]]

Of course I am leaving away the ethical aspect away here. That is, as a diy biologist, should you engineer complex live forms (higher than bacteria, plants, fungi)? And if so, where to stop (Europe says vertebrates is no-go without ethical review). 

Without a proof-of concept you will have a very hard time to get funding or a lab that allows you to create your idea. So most entrepreneurs once started in a diy manner.   

Well, getting a bit too far from topic now...

[Dakota Hamill]

I just noticed the deadline got extended to December 7th, which is great.  Though, I might not have been the only one who "rushed" to meet that November 7th deadline after finding out about it a little late.  If improvements to the science/pitch/demo have been made to an already submitted application, is there perhaps a best way to go about fixing that without re-submitting an entirely new application?

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[Cathal Garvey]

The easy answer is, don't sweat the pitch. We're not that interested in
"polished", far more interested in "submitted early". And you're dealing
with synbio nerds, so the lighting or camera quality in a pitch video,
or even the grammar in the application documentation, matter very little
compared to the details of the team, the project, and the perceived
market opportunity.

If you have already made an application *to Ireland* let me know,
because I haven't seen it! This may be down to fuzzy back-end stuff, or
perhaps you were talking about SF?

(BTW, contrary to what may have been said earlier or elsewhere, the
offering for Indie.Bio (note new domain name! :)) is now 50,000 for 8%
with an optional loan note of $25k with 20% discount, 5% Interest & $2m
cap. And that's all on top of access to a full lab and
mentorship/collaboration with some truly excellent people!)

On 24/11/14 21:54, Dakota Hamill wrote:
> I just noticed the deadline got extended to December 7th, which is
> great. Though, I might not have been the only one who "rushed" to meet
> that November 7th deadline after finding out about it a little late. If
> improvements to the science/pitch/demo have been made to an already
> submitted application, is there perhaps a best way to go about fixing
> that without re-submitting an entirely new application?
>
> On Thu, Oct 23, 2014 at 1:34 PM, Mega [Andreas Stuermer]
> <masters...@gmail.com <mailto:masters...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> Of course I am leaving away the ethical aspect away here. That is,
> as a diy biologist, should you engineer complex live forms (higher
> than bacteria, plants, fungi)? And if so, where to stop (Europe says
> vertebrates is no-go without ethical review).
>
> Without a proof-of concept you will have a very hard time to get
> funding or a lab that allows you to create your idea. So most
> entrepreneurs once started in a diy manner.
>
> Well, getting a bit too far from topic now...
>
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[Mega [Andreas Stuermer]]

? You can already apply to Ireland? The homepage just has that "apply to San Fran" feature?

[Cathal (Phone)]

Indeed you can apply to Ireland: http://indie.bio/apply-to-ireland/

[Biotech Ryan]

Yes, as Cathal pointed out you can apply to both at the moment, SF or Cork. Most of the team is currently out for thanksgiving holidays/vacations here in the US but we'll be back in Dec 1st. However, Cathal can answer any questions you have about the Cork program too.

Lots of additional info, mentors and site upgrades are planned but please bear with us as we're gearing everything up.

[Yuriy Fazylov]

50k now?

[Cathal (Phone)]

Yep. 50k for 8% with an optional convertible loan note at 20% discount. The programme itself is pretty intensive and is valued at an additional 50k per team, so the total value excluding the note is around 100k.

On 13 December 2014 00:19:50 GMT+00:00, Yuriy Fazylov <yuriy...@gmail.com> wrote:

50k now?

[Matt Lawes]

OK I'm confused.

Is this Y Combinator itself (which now also looks at biotech) ... or is it IndieBio which is emulating Y Combinator?

Thx >matt

Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE DROID

"Cathal (Phone)" <cathal...@cathalgarvey.me> wrote:

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[Cathal (Phone)]

Indie.bio, formerly known as SynbioAxlr8r, was the world's first accelerator for biotech. It ran in Cork, Ireland for the first time this Summer, stewarded by our own Jacob Shiach.

YCombinator announced shortly after SBX's launch that they were gonna do biotech, too, and invested in a number of more mature companies than SBX/Indie.Bio is aimed towards.

So, neither is copying the other, and there's no competition: Indie.Bio is designed for launching early-stage or freshly-minted biotech startups.

Indie.bio is now also operating in the Bay Area with Indie.Bio SF, which closed applications last week, but is still operating in Cork, Ireland: that's the event for which I'm seeking applicants and ideas, as I'm the new Director of the Cork programme.