Using copper wire instead of stainless still on gel electrophoresis box

[RaccoonTravels]

This could potentially be a really stupid question, but I'm trying to build a gel electrophoresis box and was wondering what effect it would have if I use copper wire for the electrodes instead of stainless steel.

Thanks,

Also I'm really glad to find a group like this.

[Avery louie]

Copper does not work.  It has a reaction and corrodes quickly.  316 stainless is probably your best bet.  That is what I use for my gel boxes.  You can see them at my tequals0.wordpress.com.

--A

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[Nathan McCorkle]

Avery, sure it corrodes quickly and the water changes color, but does
that interfere with DNA fluorescence?

Copper will definitely electrolyse and produce ions, which will affect
the electrophoretic mobility, but I don't see why it wouldn't
completely... unless the dark ions in solution filter out the
excitation or emission light of the DNA:fluorophore.

On another note, copper is often toxic to cells, so even if this
worked, you might not be able to use the DNA for downstream cloning
stuff.

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-Nathan

[RaccoonTravels]

Thanks for both of the quick responses. What about using stainless steel screws as the electrodes, but connecting them to the power source with copper wire?

[Lisa Thalheim]

Generally, I'm with Avery on this.
For context, I had this weird problem a while back where my stainless steel anode (don't know which type of stainless steel) would just corrode away. Within 15 minutes of the gel run, it was considerably thinner and very brittle. I eventually "fixed" it by replacing the anode with a platinum wire (the cathode is still stainless steel). This setup seems to work fine.

I would not be surprised if a copper anode would never make it through an entire gel run before disintegrating completely. For the cathode, copper might just work fine. OP, do you maybe fancy just trying it and reporting back here? I'm currently doing some investigations where I measure parameters like resistance, voltage, temperature and the like with different buffers, agarose concentrations and electrode distances for an idea I'm testing - and I'd be very interested to see similar data for different electrode combinations.

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[Cathal Garvey]

Graphite makes for a good quick fix, electrode-wise? Haven't tried this
but it's often recommended for electrolysis experiments.

Nichrome wire is also very good, will last a long time before corroding.

On 11/01/14 19:33, RaccoonTravels wrote:
> Thanks for both of the quick responses. What about using stainless steel
> screws as the electrodes, but connecting them to the power source with
> copper wire?
>
> On Saturday, January 11, 2014 1:03:20 PM UTC-6, Avery wrote:
>>
>> Copper does not work. It has a reaction and corrodes quickly. 316
>> stainless is probably your best bet. That is what I use for my gel boxes.
>> You can see them at my tequals0.wordpress.com.
>>
>> --A

>> On Jan 11, 2014 10:53 AM, "RaccoonTravels" <thar...@gmail.com<javascript:>>

>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> This could potentially be a really stupid question, but I'm trying to
>>> build a gel electrophoresis box and was wondering what effect it would have
>>> if I use copper wire for the electrodes instead of stainless steel.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> Also I'm really glad to find a group like this.
>>>
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[Nathan McCorkle]

The only thing I can think of being negative about a screw vs a wire
is that the electric field lines will look more like those of a point
source, than of parallel plates. You want the field to be as
equivalent as possible so the electrophoretic velocity doesn't differ,
i.e. so your bands are all running at the same speed.

See pg 12 and 13 for the difference between a point-source and
parallel-plate electric field:
http://www.wiley.com/college/sc/touger/19.pdf

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-Nathan

[Nathan McCorkle]

On Sat, Jan 11, 2014 at 11:57 AM, Cathal Garvey
<cathal...@cathalgarvey.me> wrote:
> Graphite makes for a good quick fix, electrode-wise? Haven't tried this
> but it's often recommended for electrolysis experiments.
>

Here's my experience with graphite rods from mechanical pencils for
salt-water electrolysis:
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/diybio/GWTrmC6vMfc/462lApYcnLcJ

[Simon Quellen Field]

Nathan --

You might have had better luck using pyrolytic graphite instead of the clay and graphite dust composite that pencil leads are made from. Pyrolytic graphite is a pure crystal of graphite, grown at 1/1000th of an inch per hour in a chemical vapor deposition chamber.

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[Cathal Garvey]

Simon,
How are "artist" graphite pencils? The sort that aren't wood-wrapped?
They look pretty crystalline. I'm assuming high-H value is higher graphite?

On 11/01/14 20:19, Simon Quellen Field wrote:
> Nathan --
> You might have had better luck using pyrolytic

> graphite<http://www.scitoyscatalog.com/product/GRAPHITE3.html>instead

> of the clay and graphite dust composite that pencil leads are made
> from. Pyrolytic

> graphite<http://www.scitoyscatalog.com/product/GRAPHITE3.html>is a

[Mohit Mahajan]

How about using hypodermic needles? They are stainless steel and easily available.

[Simon Quellen Field]

I don't have any experience with them.

But you may be incorrect about the H value -- harder pencils may have higher clay content and lower graphite content. Graphite is fairly soft. But I really don't know.

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[Xabier Vázquez Campos]

Simon, you are right. H (hard) grade pencils have higher clay than graphite content. B (black) is the other way around. And HB are the mid point in hardness with a 50/50 clay/graphite. In any case you should be able to find graphite bars wherever you can find artistic drawing stuff

[Simon Quellen Field]

I might still recommend the pyrolytic graphite. It is inexpensive, and in a nice form factor for electrodes, and as a pure crystal, you know what is in it (99.999+% carbon).

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[Brian Degger]

http://graphitestore.com/itemDetails.asp?item_id=399&prd_id=25&cat_id=22&curPage=1
Might supply what is needed.

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[Avery louie]

You can buy 316 stainless wire in practically any size on Amazon.  You can get hypodermic tubing as well,  but you would have on building up in tube then,  which might not be good for corrosion.

If you are looking for cheap electrophoresis equipment, check out the kit I sell- it has a psu, gel box and illuminator all rolled into one.

Here is a link to the instructable http://m.instructables.com/id/Gel-Electrophoresis-Integrated-System-GelIS/

--A

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