Consider me very interested. I have a lot of potential uses for a
turbidostat, but that kind of equipment is out of my league for now. How
did you go about getting OD readings?
As for hosting the files, Thingiverse, Github and Brian Bishop's SKDB
are both good. The former is somewhat like an instructables with
inclusive source file hosting/rendering, the penultimate is, well,
Github, a source-hosting site, and the latter is (Brian, forgive my
crude interpretations if off the mark) intended to be a human/machine
readable source format/file system for building anything at all.
Of course, there's also Citizen Science Quarterly and DIYbio for writing
up a "How to" article if they're interested, and you can attach small
files to emails sent to this list, or host them online (you can use a
subdomain of my sites if you want free filehosting for a modest project,
I technically have unlimited bandwidth: indiebiotech.com or
cunningprojects.com)
Looking forward to hearing more,
Cathal
To have your own web site that you and others can update would be the best if you
are up for that level of effort. Otherwise I like Cathal's suggestion of
making a documentation directory structure full of files and publishing that on github.
I like Jonathan's favorite, openwetware.org wiki, also.
I have a latent project to learn enough django web framework coding to use
a content management system, (CMS), to allow community users to log in and add content,
while the style matches the rest of the site, and links and site wide features are
easy to use. I have plans in my head for turbidostat, chemostat, potentiostat
functions along with incubation and shaking. So, some day in 2012, I see
using some of your open design merged with my ideas, TAPR licensed and documented
in a community friendly CMS on my site. And I'll put it on the openwetware.org wiki,
with links to my site -- for the ones who just want to buy...rather than build.
John
Looking forward to hearing more. Already planning to make an IR-OD
measurement thing in the meantime, OD measurements would be very handy
for catching B.subtilis at the right stage for competence; a problem
I've grappled with in the past. You've made my day, I always figured
debugging a DIY diode rig wasn't worth the effort.
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PGP Public Key: http://bit.ly/CathalGKey
Thanks for the offer to free publish.
I was researching the state of the art of various "stats" and came across
a nice concept from 1991, (patent expired) that could help do some culture growth-stat
functions.
==========
The permittistat: a novel type of turbidostat
http://mic.sgmjournals.org/content/137/4/735.full.pdf
==========
"Baker’s yeast was grown in a novel type of turbidostat in which the steady-state biomass level was controlled not by
the optical turbidity but by the dielectric permittivity of the suspension at appropriate radio frequencies. Dry
weight, fresh weight, the optical density at 600 nm, percentage viability (from methylene blue staining), bud count
and ethanol concentration were measured off-line and the cell size distribution was recorded using flow cytometry.
Any changes in the physiological properties of the yeast had a negligible effect on the ratio between the permittivity
set (and measured) and the steady-state dry weight, fresh weight or optical density of the cultures. The permittistat
was found to provide an extremely convenient means for carrying out turbidostatic culture."
==========
The method they talk of is using an oscillating voltage to measure the permittivity of the space
between electrodes as frequency is varied. They used a four-terminal dielectric spectrometer designed for the
registration of microbial biomass, a BugmeterTM, produced by Aber
Instruments, Aberystwyth, UK. We all know how easy it is to control volt signals
with an Arduino or similar now, so this kind of "stat" could get around any fouling up of
OD detector windows by growing bugs with low costs and fairly low complexity of control code and
instrumentation gear. The frequencies used in the above paper were 400 kHz and 9.5 MHz, which
are easy for some inexpensive chips to output.
Besides keeping a batch at a constant mass density of bugs in water/nutrient mix, when you sweep
the frequency along you can tell other subtle qualities of the mix. Search on "dielectric spectroscopy".
John
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So would you PWM a line at 400khz? How do you watch the effect?
Sent from my mobile Android device, please excuse any typographical errors.
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How do you watch the effect?
The dielectric spectrometer instrument they used is not defined much in the article.
From what I've read so far, it is just a capacitance meter -- i.e. the capacitance doesn't
change much with parameters like volts applied, so permittivity is == pico Farads x a scale factor.
The live stuff in the zone between four gold plated pins (for a four terminal Kelvin measurement of some sort)
varies conduction a lot as you change frequency. the difference in capacitance measured at 400kHz and 9.5MHz
is what they found was a fairly linear indicator of density by weight when assayed by dessicating and weighing.
So, the meter pF reading at 9.5MHz - meter pF reading at 400kHz is a delta. As the delta changes you
feed that back to a control loop and keep it close to constant, (the "stat" part of the the machine).
To measure capacitance you would use PWM square waves, but sine waves that a are pretty pure.
Pure sine waves because that is what has historically been used observing cells different conductivity
due to AC e-fields. cell wall behavior enters into it.
JG
jt
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Have you constructed a How-To yet? I'd love to see what all's gone
into it.
Hi jt,
thanks again for sharing your amazing project and also linking to the other turbidostats and chemostat systems from the dunham and kalvin lab. You mentioned in your Evolvinator that for anaerobic samples one could just flush the system with an anoxic gas. I don't think this will work especially working with oxygen atolerant anaerobes. I was thinking about building your system under a diy anaerobic chamber (there are lot of diy projects for those out).
Do you have any idea, papers, literature that could help me in cultivating Archeae in turbidostat system (does it make sense with an doubling time of 4h) ? Also for your problem with the formation of biofilms : there has been a patent out to solve that. They seem to use a combination of two culture vessels - changing vessels frequently to kill of biofilm producers and dilution resistant strains. Since you used yout system at Ginko Bioworks you can not really use it for commercial interest as it is patented but mabe there is a clever design around.
I think a DIY turbidostat - especially one that enables growing bugs for thousands of generation - would be powerful in changing substrate affinities and cleaning up waste streams.
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