AGPL license for crossbar

[alls...@gmail.com]

Hi,

Crossbar is licensed under AGPL. Does it means I cannot redistribute it in a close source product. And even cannot use it in a close source online service ...

Thanks

Mike

[Tobias Oberstein]

Correct.

If you modify Crossbar.io code under the AGPL, then you must publish
your changes under the AGPL.

If you want to license Crossbar.io under non-AGPL, we (Tavendo) offer
commercial licenses for embedding that does not come with AGPL requirements.

>
>
> Thanks
> Mike
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> Groups "Crossbar" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send
> an email to crossbario+...@googlegroups.com
> <mailto:crossbario+...@googlegroups.com>.
> To post to this group, send email to cross...@googlegroups.com
> <mailto:cross...@googlegroups.com>.
> To view this discussion on the web visit
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/crossbario/8d21d47e-5330-4cdf-a99b-1ea830fec904%40googlegroups.com
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/crossbario/8d21d47e-5330-4cdf-a99b-1ea830fec904%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>.
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

[alls...@gmail.com]

I has no intention to modify crossbar source code. But I have to redistribute it so that end users do not need to download/configure a crossbar instance themselves. In such case, I still need arrange a commercial license with your company, right?

在 2015年6月6日星期六 UTC+8下午10:39:24，Tobias Oberstein写道：

Am 06.06.2015 um 16:09 schrieb alls...@gmail.com:
> Hi,
>
> Crossbar is licensed under AGPL. Does it means I cannot redistribute it
> in a close source product. And even cannot use it in a close source
> online service ...

Correct.

If you modify Crossbar.io code under the AGPL, then you must publish
your changes under the AGPL.

If you want to license Crossbar.io under non-AGPL, we (Tavendo) offer
commercial licenses for embedding that does not come with AGPL requirements.

>
>
> Thanks
> Mike
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> Groups "Crossbar" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send
> an email to crossbario+...@googlegroups.com

> <mailto:crossbario+unsub...@googlegroups.com>.

[Alexander Gödde]

Hi Mike!

If you want to redistribute Crossbar.io as-is, then this is unproblematic as long as you give your users the possibility to download the source (and inform them of this in some way).

Be aware though:

We firmly believe that connecting components to Crossbar.io does not link them to Crossbar.io in a way which requires them to be licensed under an AGLPL-compatible license. (see http://crossbar.io/docs/Crossbar-License/).

When packaging Crossbar.io with your software, be careful not to introduce any dependencies/links with your code beyond the WAMP connections. For details of when this might happen see the FSF FAQ at http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.html.

Regards,

Alex

 

[alls...@gmail.com]

Thank you for the clarification. I'd suggest add the clarification for "redistribution permission" on your web page. Some other companies choose GPL/AGPL license just because they want user buy a commercial license.

在 2015年6月6日星期六 UTC+8下午10:58:51，Alexander Gödde写道：

[Tobias Oberstein]

Am 07.06.2015 um 05:58 schrieb alls...@gmail.com:
> Thank you for the clarification. I'd suggest add the clarification for
> "redistribution permission" on your web page. Some other companies

This isn't a special permission we give on top of the AGPL, but simply
results from the AGPL "as is".

> choose GPL/AGPL license just because they want user buy a commercial
> license.

Whether you need a commercial license will depend on many factors, and
if in doubt, you should get legal advice.

>
>
>
> 在 2015年6月6日星期六 UTC+8下午10:58:51，Alexander Gödde写道：
>
> Hi Mike!
>
> If you want to redistribute Crossbar.io as-is, then this is
> unproblematic as long as you give your users the possibility to
> download the source (and inform them of this in some way).
>
> Be aware though:
>
> We firmly believe that connecting components to Crossbar.io does not
> link them to Crossbar.io in a way which requires them to be licensed
> under an AGLPL-compatible license. (see
> http://crossbar.io/docs/Crossbar-License/

> <http://crossbar.io/docs/Crossbar-License/>).

>
>
> When packaging Crossbar.io with your software, be careful not to
> introduce any dependencies/links with your code beyond the WAMP
> connections. For details of when this might happen see the FSF FAQ
> at http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.html

> <http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.html>.

>
>
> Regards,
>
>
> Alex
>
>
>
> Am Samstag, 6. Juni 2015 16:48:47 UTC+2 schrieb alls...@gmail.com

> <javascript:>:

> > <mailto:crossbario+...@googlegroups.com>.

> > To post to this group, send email to
> cross...@googlegroups.com
> > <mailto:cross...@googlegroups.com>.
> > To view this discussion on the web visit
> >
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/crossbario/8d21d47e-5330-4cdf-a99b-1ea830fec904%40googlegroups.com
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/crossbario/8d21d47e-5330-4cdf-a99b-1ea830fec904%40googlegroups.com>
>
> >

> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/crossbario/8d21d47e-5330-4cdf-a99b-1ea830fec904%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer

> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/crossbario/8d21d47e-5330-4cdf-a99b-1ea830fec904%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>>.
>
> > For more options, visit
> https://groups.google.com/d/optout

> <https://groups.google.com/d/optout>.

>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> Groups "Crossbar" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send
> an email to crossbario+...@googlegroups.com

> <mailto:crossbario+...@googlegroups.com>.

> To post to this group, send email to cross...@googlegroups.com
> <mailto:cross...@googlegroups.com>.
> To view this discussion on the web visit

> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/crossbario/989918ee-c498-4a75-a510-ad79307e383a%40googlegroups.com
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/crossbario/989918ee-c498-4a75-a510-ad79307e383a%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>.

[Andrew Eddie]

On Sunday, 7 June 2015 00:39:24 UTC+10, Tobias Oberstein wrote:

If you want to license Crossbar.io under non-AGPL, we (Tavendo) offer
commercial licenses for embedding that does not come with AGPL requirements.

It's also worth noting that the AGPL allows people to request your source code modifications (how they find out is another matter) you have made to Crossbar.io even if you have no intention of formally distributing them. So a company that wants to introduce source code changes that they want to ensure are kept proprietary should also seek a commercial license. 

It's my understanding that configuration files are not considered copyrightable data so aren't subject to the provisions of the AGPL, but I can't find that this is an official, legal interpretation. It's an unfortunate grey area due to the nature of the AGPL.

Regards,

Andrew Eddie

[Alexander Gödde]

Hi Andrew!

With configuration files, there will usually be only one way to express a particular configuration. Copyright does (generally) not protect ideas but the creativity in a particular expression of an idea. Applied to configuration files, this means that there should be no copyright in them. 

Regards,

Alex

[Andrew Eddie]

On Friday, 10 July 2015 19:45:30 UTC+10, Alexander Gödde wrote:

With configuration files, there will usually be only one way to express a particular configuration. Copyright does (generally) not protect ideas but the creativity in a particular expression of an idea. Applied to configuration files, this means that there should be no copyright in them. 

I agree in principle, but my point was it's a complication of the AGPL that this question even has to be asked that you don't get with, for example, the GPL (just "using" AGPL software exposes you to a modicum of risk that is, as yet, untested in law).

Regards,

Andrew Eddie

[Andrey Oleynik]

Hello, I've deployed crossbar.io server with custom authenticator component for it.

My application just connects to crossbar by WAMP protocol. 

Is it considered as modification and should I apply AGPL for the application?

[Alexander Gödde]

Hi Andrey!

Take a look at https://crossbar.io/about/Legal/ 

A custome authenticator, like anything else which connects to Crossbar.io over WAMP, is not affected by the AGPL, i.e. you can keep/release the code of your application under any license of your choosing.

Regards,

Alex

[Andrey Oleynik]

Alex, the problem is that the custom authenticator is a python file used by crossbar to handle authentication and it is not connected by WAMP. Here is an example. 

вторник, 27 марта 2018 г., 13:50:19 UTC+3 пользователь Alexander Gödde написал:

[Alexander Gödde]

Hi Andrey,

as the config shows, the authenticator component access is configured as regular WAMP access.

The question whether a WAMP component is run under the control of a Crossbar.io instance or externally does not change anything here.

Regards,

Alex