CO DOW

[Steven Mlodinow]

Greetings All,

No, this has naught to do with dowitchers.

I find the behavior of the DOW enforcement agents in this state baffling. I've had more run-ins (all at Banner Lakes SWA and St Vrain SP) with state wildlife enforcement agents than in 20 years in WA (where the number was a lovely zero, though the number of locations roughly equal). 

The Banner Lakes guy didn't like where I parked, even though it was not on SWA area land and totally legal. He threatened to have my car towed and fine me even though he had no jurisdiction to do so. I don't argue with folks carrying guns and yelling at me, so I hiked the two miles back to my car and left.

The most recent St Vrain incident on Co Rd 7 occurred a month ago when the officer claimed that a clearly unused Osprey nest built along WCR 7 still required a 1000 m clearance, even though it was unoccupied because it "might be used." In mid-July. Really. 

This Prewitt thing is odd. I've talked to rangers there a dozen or so times over the 3 last years, usually chit-chatting about what birds I was seeing. No one mentioned a permit. Now they are ticketing folks. I wonder, has anyone in COBIRDS land received a warning during the last 3 years? My guess the answer is zero, or close to it. None of us regulars out there have received such that I know of.

And I could not find, in 20 frustrated minutes, anything about a special permit about Prewitt or that any permit was needed simply to enter Prewitt. Maybe there is a sign at Prewitt that says such, but their website says naught (as far as I can tell) about a Prewitt/Jumbo permit.

This erratic behavior just confounds and irritates me. Signs at Andrick Ponds SWA outright contradict themselves and their website. I've encountered this at other locations. Most of the officers I've bumped into (like at Prewitt in past, and at Andrick recently) have been exceptionally nice, but then you get this weird aggressive angry behavior.

I truly wonder what the underlying cause is.

Best Wishes

Steve Mlodinow

Back in Longmont

[Alison Kondler]

The best thing to do is buy a Colorado fishing license every year, it has a habitat stamp with it. In doing so, your money goes toward the environment and habitat protection. If you buy the permit just for the NE Colorado lakes,
(Which costs amost the same) all the money goes towards management of the lakes, AKA the guys giving you a hard time.

Hope you have smoother trips in the future!

Alison Kondler
Jefferson County

[Joe Roller]

A WORD TO THE WISE:

Just to supplement Norm Lewis's excellent post, IF you are exempt from being required to carry a valid fishing or hunting license

OR 

carry a valid Access Pass BECAUSE OF YOUR LEVEL OF EXPERIENCE, MATURITY, SAGACITY AND WISDOM (in other words, old age)

then YOU MUST BE ABLE TO PROVE YOUR AGE BY CARRYING A VALID DRIVER'S LICENSE, PASSPORT, OR OTHER PROOF OF AGE,

WITH YOU, ON YOUR PERSON, IN YOUR WALLET, PURSE OR BACKPACK OR OTHERWISE HANDY. DO NOT FORGET IT. THE FINE IS STEEP.

I cannot tell you how many times I have needed to trudge back to my vehicle, retrieve my Colorado Driver's License with PROOF OF MY AGE,

and display it to the well-meaning arresting office, all because said officer was INCREDULOUS that I was 65 or older based on my appearance alone.

Joe Roller,

Denver

On Mon, Aug 26, 2013 at 1:27 PM, Norm Lewis <migr...@aol.com> wrote:

Good afternoon!  I have a serious interest in this issue, since I lead monthly birding outings for the Denver Museum of Nature and Science.  This month's trip is to, of course, Prewitt.  After reading Steve's post, I realized that this would be a great opportunity to have another of my famous run-ins with the authorities (see, Julesburg Elementary School), so I rang up the Division of Parks, Wildlife, Birder Harrassment and General Bureaucratic Annoyance (the DPWBHGBA if you're looking it up) to see if I could get an answer.  I got one, and here it is:

 

If this looks familiar, it is the same policy that is in place for Jumbo and Red Lion.

 

If you are between the ages of 19-64, you need an Access Pass to so much as set foot on the property.  The pass is $36.  If you have a CO hunting or fishing license, that will suffice.  If you're a geezer (guilty as charged), you're exempt.

 

As Steve mentioned, this policy is confusing and unfair, but it is what it is.  As to the underlying reason- I spoke to a wildlife officer a few years back about the -then- new policy at Jumbo.  He explained that there was a developing problem at Jumbo with partiers and carousers who were making disturbances and trashing the place, especially at night.  His explanation was that the permit was a way to give officers an enforceable method for dealing with the problem.  Sounds reasonable, to a point.  I have never heard that this has been a problem at Prewitt, but ........

 

So, if you are a youngster and you are birding Prewitt without a permit, you are at risk for a ticket.

 

Norm

Norm Lewis

Lakewood, CO

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[Norm Lewis]

Good afternoon!  I have a serious interest in this issue, since I lead monthly birding outings for the Denver Museum of Nature and Science.  This month's trip is to, of course, Prewitt.  After reading Steve's post, I realized that this would be a great opportunity to have another of my famous run-ins with the authorities (see, Julesburg Elementary School), so I rang up the Division of Parks, Wildlife, Birder Harrassment and General Bureaucratic Annoyance (the DPWBHGBA if you're looking it up) to see if I could get an answer.  I got one, and here it is:

 

If this looks familiar, it is the same policy that is in place for Jumbo and Red Lion.

 

If you are between the ages of 19-64, you need an Access Pass to so much as set foot on the property.  The pass is $36.  If you have a CO hunting or fishing license, that will suffice.  If you're a geezer (guilty as charged), you're exempt.

 

As Steve mentioned, this policy is confusing and unfair, but it is what it is.  As to the underlying reason- I spoke to a wildlife officer a few years back about the -then- new policy at Jumbo.  He explained that there was a developing problem at Jumbo with partiers and carousers who were making disturbances and trashing the place, especially at night.  His explanation was that the permit was a way to give officers an enforceable method for dealing with the problem.  Sounds reasonable, to a point.  I have never heard that this has been a problem at Prewitt, but ........

 

So, if you are a youngster and you are birding Prewitt without a permit, you are at risk for a ticket.

 

Norm

Norm Lewis

Lakewood, CO

-----Original Message-----
From: Steven Mlodinow <sgm...@aol.com>
To: cobirds <cob...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Sun, Aug 25, 2013 4:57 pm
Subject: [cobirds] CO DOW

[John Home]

Does all of this mean that a CO annual parks pass doesn't cover access to Prewitt etc? And that I now need to carry my fishing license, which resides in my fishing vest so that I always have it handy when stopped on the river , now has to be ever present on my person? Passport required as well?

John Maynard

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/cobirds/CAJpZcUB9vnahMXWCV844fQi0boHDFGG0hvD0KBA9nB1%3Dn9p-OQ%40mail.gmail.com.

[Norm Lewis]

Joe- are you tellin' me you're over 64?  I think I'm gonna need to see some ID, my friend.....

[Bob Spencer, the younger]

I was on Joey Kellner's DFO trip to Prewitt Reservoir yesterday. I was "caught" by a park official without a fishing or hunting license. He gave me the option of purchasing a license on the spot (the 1-800 number is posted on the Prewitt entrance sign board), or being issued a $75 fine. Somewhat surprisingly, I was able to get sufficient mobile phone reception and was able to purchase a fishing license over the phone on a Sunday afternoon.

Bob Spencer, the younger

Erie, CO 

[Char]

Hey, folks, Prewitt is practically in our backyard and I understand your frustration with the system they have in place, but do know "trespassers" often go out there and leave trash all over the place; including fishing line, dirty diapers, cans, plastic beach toys and glass bottles. I still think the old way was better when you paid a fee at the entrance, and know they lose a lot of revenue with the existing system. Btw, we were out there a week ago and it was very quiet, with only cicadas to entertain our ears, and the water appeared to be miles away. We could make out pelicans in the distance, but no birds were found in our vacinity.

On Sunday, August 25, 2013 4:57:23 PM UTC-6, Steven Mlodinow wrote:

[DAVID A LEATHERMAN]

My two most recent run-ins with DPW (aka DOW) have both been in the same southeastern CO town (starts with an "L" and ends in "r") for the dastardly activities of photographing bluebirds at Higbee SWA and collecting wasps along the county road right-of-way within sight of a dried-up, mismanaged, hellhole SWA.  Same officer both times.  Both totally without just cause.  Felt like boredom or general harrassment on the part of the officer.  I asked for, and was promised, some written clerification (which never happened).  When this individual was introduced to me some time later at a Mexican restaurant and reminded I was the person he had twice shaken down, no remorse or apology whatsoever, just the statement, "I must have been doing my job."  So, we may think their primary job is to protect the state's wildlife and their habitats for the sustained benefit of those organisms and, secondarily, the enjoyment of same by us taxpayers, but at least this guy sees his job, by his own admission, as giving non-hunters a hard time. 

I know a few DPW folks read this forum from time to time, maybe on a regular basis.  Maybe an open dialogue between us would be a good idea and straighten out some misunderstandings.  Maybe DPW could be invited to write something for Colorado Birds.  It would seem there is a disconnect between the people in that agency who we deal with on issues like the Colorado Birding Trail and the rank and file enforcement folks.  I suspect those two factions within DPW talk as little amongst themselves as they do with us "watchers".  Probably walking in eachother's shoes, or at least hearing what it is like, might help.

Dave Leatherman
Fort Collins

---

To: jrol...@gmail.com

Subject: Re: [cobirds] CO DOW

From: migr...@aol.com
CC: SGM...@aol.com; cob...@googlegroups.com
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2013 22:07:18 -0400

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