Coors Ponds security (Jefferson) No RNGR or LTDU

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W. Robert Shade III

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Jan 10, 2018, 7:03:44 PM1/10/18
to CoBirds Rare Bird Alert
I too was questioned by Coors Company security. I was standing outside the fence (of course!) on the west side scoping the lake for Red-necked Grebe and Long-tailed Duck and found neither. Two drake Red-breasted Mergansers and four Ruddy Ducks. I had only been there fifteen minutes or less when the security truck stopped. She was nice enough but I was informed that this is private property and that Coors does not want people taking photographs. I assured her that all I had were binoculars and scope (thinking "Don't you know the difference?"). All birds were way too far away for the camera and lens in my car anyway. 

So two points:
1. If you go there best not to have a camera in view.
2. Is it legal to prevent photography of private land that is visible from public property? Does Coors Security really have jurisdiction over people on public property or are they just trying to intimidate us? What are they worried about? That some ISIS ninjas will blow up the pond? 

Bob Shade
Lakewood

Kathy and Jeff Dunning

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Jan 10, 2018, 8:37:07 PM1/10/18
to W. Robert Shade III, CoBirds Rare Bird Alert
Bob and all - 

The law is quite clear.  Entities such as Coors may query you with regards to your activities, but standing on McIntyre (a public road) and taking pictures of the "Coors Ponds" is completely within your rights.  

https://www.clickinmoms.com/blog/street-photography-and-the-law-7-things-you-need-to-know/  (this is just one source of information, the Department of Justice supports this right).

I would politely invite them to call the JeffCo Sheriff's office and have an officer explain the law to them (all the while continuing to look at and photograph the birds).  I suspect the Coors Company lawyers would be appalled at their security folks' behavior.

Kathy Mihm Dunning
Denver

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Migrant

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Jan 10, 2018, 8:59:28 PM1/10/18
to wrsh...@gmail.com, CoBirds Rare Bird Alert
Several years ago (before I realized that it was controlled by a hunting club) I was headed up the dam at Riverside Reservoir (out near Jackson, in the middle of nowhere, for those who might not be familiar) when a guy roared up in a beat up pickup and asked what I was doing. I attempted to give the usual “birdwatching” while attempting to look as harmless as possible. He informed me that I could not go on the dam. When I inquired what might be the harm in a quick look at the reservoir, he told me that they were on “High Terror Alert” (the capitals are my interpretation of the way I was informed of this).
So now we know- if ISIS or Al Tapeworm attacks, be sure you are nowhere near Coors Ponds or Riverside Reservoir. You might pick a safe place, like, oh say, the U.S. Mint or some such.

Norm Lewis
Lakewood

Sent from my iPad
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Ira Sanders

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Jan 10, 2018, 10:12:15 PM1/10/18
to Norm Lewis, Bob Shade, CoBirds Rare Bird Alert
Birders,
Here is a little more on the subject:

Photography may be prohibited or restricted by a property owner on their property. However, a property owner generally cannot restrict the photographing of the property by individuals who are not within the bounds of the property.
Photographing private property from within the public domain is not illegal, with the exception of an area that is generally regarded as private, such as a bedroom, bathroom, or hotel room.
 Krages II, Bert P. http://www.krages.com/ThePhotographersRight.pdf  Retrieved 2009-06-17

Ira Sanders
Golden, CO


On Wed, Jan 10, 2018 at 6:59 PM, 'Migrant' via Colorado Birds <cob...@googlegroups.com> wrote:
Several years ago (before I realized that it was controlled by a hunting club) I was headed up the dam at Riverside Reservoir (out near Jackson, in the middle of nowhere, for those who might not be familiar) when a guy roared up in a beat up pickup and asked what I was doing. I attempted to give the usual “birdwatching” while attempting to look as harmless as possible. He informed me that I could not go on the dam. When I inquired what might be the harm in a quick look at the reservoir, he told me that they were on “High Terror Alert” (the capitals are my interpretation of the way I was informed of this).
So now we know- if ISIS or Al Tapeworm attacks, be sure you are nowhere near Coors Ponds or Riverside Reservoir. You might pick a safe place, like, oh say, the U.S. Mint or some such.

Norm Lewis
Lakewood

Sent from my iPad

On Jan 10, 2018, at 5:03 PM, W. Robert Shade III <wrsh...@gmail.com> wrote:

I too was questioned by Coors Company security. I was standing outside the fence (of course!) on the west side scoping the lake for Red-necked Grebe and Long-tailed Duck and found neither. Two drake Red-breasted Mergansers and four Ruddy Ducks. I had only been there fifteen minutes or less when the security truck stopped. She was nice enough but I was informed that this is private property and that Coors does not want people taking photographs. I assured her that all I had were binoculars and scope (thinking "Don't you know the difference?"). All birds were way too far away for the camera and lens in my car anyway. 

So two points:
1. If you go there best not to have a camera in view.
2. Is it legal to prevent photography of private land that is visible from public property? Does Coors Security really have jurisdiction over people on public property or are they just trying to intimidate us? What are they worried about? That some ISIS ninjas will blow up the pond? 

Bob Shade
Lakewood

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Ira Sanders
Golden, CO
"My mind is a raging torrent flooded with rivulets of thought cascading into a waterfall of creative alternatives."

Mark Obmascik

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Jan 10, 2018, 10:39:53 PM1/10/18
to Colorado Birds
Pretty amazing that a company doesn't want to show off actual wild creatures living on its property after the same company twice killed almost all fish (tens of thousands) on seven miles of Clear Creek with its industrial spills; pleaded guilty to two criminal violations of state environmental law; and paid more than $1 million of federal fines for leaking toxic solvents into groundwater.




Good birding.

Mark Obmascik
Denver, CO 


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Ira Sanders
Golden, CO
"My mind is a raging torrent flooded with rivulets of thought cascading into a waterfall of creative alternatives."

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Steven Rash

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Jan 11, 2018, 10:04:16 AM1/11/18
to Colorado Birds
Let me just preface this by saying I am not a lawyer.

I looked up the zoning for the properties along McIntyre right there and according to Jeffco Co records the property line does extend to the center of the road from both sides...

In this case the use of McIntyre is likely an easement which would grant public passage through there, but I think that's about it.

The grey area comes in that it is not typical that a property owner also owns roadside ditches. The way to find out for sure would be to dig into county records and see if coors is paying taxes on that entire parcel, or only up to their fence line. If it's the latter, then they can't really ask you to leave, or to not take pictures of anything that's viewable from there.

Just my two cents. Happy Birding.

Steve Rash
Denver Co

Joe Roller

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Jan 11, 2018, 11:33:02 AM1/11/18
to Colorado Birds
The deep background on the care with which Coors guards its property is that 
a few decades ago, the family suffered a horrible child kidnapping and murder.
Plus a Coors family member lives right on the lakeshore.

I can see why they are sensitive.

Joe Roller, Denver

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Ira Sanders

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Jan 11, 2018, 12:03:36 PM1/11/18
to Joe Roller, Colorado Birds
Didn't seem to bother us in years past.
Ira Sanders

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Ira Sanders

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Jan 11, 2018, 6:40:18 PM1/11/18
to Joe Roller, cobirds
Well done Joe.  
Ira Sanders

On Thu, Jan 11, 2018 at 4:26 PM, Joe Roller <jrol...@gmail.com> wrote:
Bob 
The above is wrong.
I talked to the head of Coors Securtiy (very cordial)  about noon, and she will call  me back after she checks.

Birders want to be good neighbors and know what the rules are 
and Coors wants good Public Relations, so I expect good things to come of this.

Will post her reply to COBirds.

Joe

On Thu, Jan 11, 2018 at 11:19 AM, Joe <jrol...@gmail.com> wrote:
Bob anything beyond the very shoulder of the road is private. More than just the fenced area. I’ll reach out to them 
Joe

Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 11, 2018, at 10:09, Joe Roller <jrol...@gmail.com> wrote:

I have been approached in the past by Coors security and I moved back to the 
Shoulder, as the land near the fence was their property, I was told. Did not have
a camera.
Your note was helpful.
Joe
Message has been deleted

Joe Roller

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Jan 12, 2018, 9:33:09 AM1/12/18
to Kyle Medina, Colorado Birds
Birders, 
I called Coors yesterday and had a cordial chat with the head of security, who will 
check into the situation and reply today. I'll forward that. 

I'm confident that we'll find a good solution, as Coors is interested in good relations with the public, 
and birders want to be good neighbors and understand and comply with their guidelines.

Joe Roller, Denver

On Thu, Jan 11, 2018 at 9:15 PM, Kyle Medina <kmedi...@gmail.com> wrote:


Here is photo of the land parcel that Steven Rash was referring too. I use this app for hunting which gives landownership around the state.




-k.r.medina
Westminster, CO

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