३३ कोटिः (crore) देवताः

[sheetal pokar]

सर्वान् सुधियः सादरं प्रणमामि ।

लोके बहुधा श्रुतं यत् ३३ कोटिः (crore) देवताः सन्तीत्यत्रास्ति किञ्चित् प्रमाणमत्राहोस्वित् किंवदन्तिरेव केवला इति जिज्ञासे । ओम् ।।

--

शीतल
શીતલ

[sunil bhattacharjya]

Namaste,

The word कोटिः here need not mean a crore. To my understanding ३३ कोटिः (crore) देवताः means 33 highest or eminent deities.

Please see the following. The Monier Williams (html version ) of the dictionary  gives the meaning of that word as follows:

Koti, is, f. the curved end of a bow or of claws, 
&c., end or top of anything, edge or point (of a 
sword), horns or cusps (of the moon), MBh. Stc. ; 
the highest point, eminence, excellence, Pancat.; 
Ratnav. ; Sarvad. ; ' a point or side in an argument 
or disputation,' (if there are two) 'alternative,' see 
-dvaya below ; the highest number in the older 
system of numbers (viz. a Krore or ten millions), 
Mn. ; Ysjn. ; MBh. &c. ; the complement of an 
arc to 90; the perpendicular side of a right-angled 
triangle, Suryas. ; Medicago esculenta, L. krit, 
m., N. of Gunadhya, Gal. jit, m. 'conquering 
ten millions,' N. of Kili-dasa, L. jiva, f. the 
cosine of an angle in a right-angled triangle. jya, 
f. id., Suryas. -tlrtha, n., N. of a Tirtha, MBh. 
iii, 4091 & 5087 ; MatsyaP.; SivaP. dvaya, n. 
' the two ends,' i. e. two alternatives, Sih. ; Sarvad. ; 
Comm. on KapS. and Prab. dhvaja, m. a millio- 
naire, Siohas. pStra, n. a rudder, I., -pala, for 
kotta-p". para, n ., N. of a town, Katharn . mat, 
mfn. furnished with a point, Sak. lakshakshi, f. 
'having lacs of Krores of eyes,' N. of a goddess. 
-linga, n.,N.ofaTIrtha, Rasik.; iigesvara, n. 
id., KapSamh. varaha, n., N. of a city (Vana- 
pura or Pevikote on the Coromandel coast), VarBrS.ix, II ; VSyuP.; (v.l. /r-r),L.); (a), I. Medicago 
esculen'a, L. (v. 1. li-v"). vedhin, mfn. 'strik- 
ing an edge," i. e. performing most difficult things, 
Rijat. i, no ; (i),m., N. of a plant, Kilac. v, 225. 
sas, ind. by ten millions, in innumerable multi- 
tudes, MBh.; R.; Ragh.; BhP. - iri, f., N. of Durga, 
L. stha, f., N. of the tutelar deity of the family 
of Cyavina, BrahmaP. homa, m. a kind of sacri- 
ficial offering, AV. Paris.; BhavP.; -vidhi, m.,N. 
of a work. Kotisvara, m. ' the lord of ten mil- 
lions,' a millionaire, Kathis. Ivi, 64 ; -tirtha, n., N. 
of a Tirtha, SivaP. 

Regards,
Sunil KB

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[sunil bhattacharjya]

Dear friends,

This is further to my previous mail on this thread. The 33 prominent deities are Prajapati, Indra, 8 Vasus, 12 Adityas and 11 Rudras. A minor variation of this list is also cited elsewhere.

A feedback is requested.

Regards,

Sunil KB

[kamalesh pathak]

sunil mahoday , namaste.

regarding 33 KOTI devata please try to analysis as below.

koti means category. there are 33 categories of devatA.

8 VASU

11RUDRA

12ADITYA

1 INDRA

1 PRAJAPATI

thus 33 categories are believed.

honourable group leaders may torch up  in the matter is expected.

regards,

kamalesh pathak

--
Kamlesh Pathak

[V Subrahmanian]

On Wed, Jul 16, 2014 at 6:41 PM, kamalesh pathak <kamlesh...@gmail.com> wrote:

sunil mahoday , namaste.

regarding 33 KOTI devata please try to analysis as below.

koti means category. there are 33 categories of devatA.

8 VASU

11RUDRA

12ADITYA

1 INDRA

1 PRAJAPATI

thus 33 categories are believed.

honourable group leaders may torch up  in the matter is expected.

Namaste

If these are the only devata-s, what about vāyu, agni, varuṇa who are also important devata-s.  Yama also should be included.  In the Taittiriyopaniṣad occurs this mantra:भीषास्माद्वातः पवते भीषोदेति सूर्यः,भीषास्मादग्नश्चेन्द्श्च, मृत्युर्धावति पञ्चम इति ।

regards
subrahmanian.v

[sunil bhattacharjya]

Dear Kamaleshji,

I am extremely sorry to have to tell you that I am unable to agree with you how-much-ever I try, for the simple reason, that according to me these 33 are deities and not classes of deities.  For example, Indra is a deity rather than a class.

Regards,

Sunil KB

[sunil bhattacharjya]

Namaste,

To my knowledge Vayu is one of the Rudras. So also Agni and Varuna are included among the 33 deities.

Regards,

Sunil KB

[Siddhartha Krishna]

Dear Shital ji,

Namaste,

As per the Rig Veda Samhita the accepted number of the Devas is thirty-three - तान्रोहिदश्व गिर्वणस्त्रयस्त्रिंशतमा वह (ऋ० १.४५.२) i.e. “Lord of Red Courses (Agni), propitiated by our praises, bring hither the thirty-three divinities.” Similar quotations include: ये त्रिंशति त्रयस्परो देवासो बर्हिरासदन् (८.२८.१) “May the thirty-three Devas sit down upon the sacred grass.” इति स्तुतासो असथा रिशादसो ये स्थ त्रयश्च त्रिंशच्च।मनोर्देवा यज्ञियासः (८.३०.२) “Destroyers of foes, the Devas adored by humans are thirty-three and are thus praised.”

The Rig Veda itself provides no clarification on the names of the ones which are to be included in the thirty-three gods. However, Aitariya Brahmana, which also is part of the Rig Veda, there two distinct groups of thirty-three Devas: “त्रयस्त्रिंशद्वै देवाः सोमपास्त्रयस्त्रिंशदसोमपाः – अष्टौ वसव एकादश रुद्रा द्वादशादित्याः प्रजापतिश्च वषट्कारश्चैते देवाः सोमपाः; एकादश प्रयाजा एकादशानुयाजा एकादशोपयाजा एतेऽसोमपाः” (ऐ०ब्रा० २.१८) i.e. there are two classes of the thirty-three Devas, the first class consists of the Somapas, drinkers of Soma, and the other who are to be propitiated by oblations of Ghrita, not by libations of Soma. The second class, evidently, is little else than personifications of sacrifices.  

A similar list is provided by Maharshi Yajnavalkya to Vidagdha Shakalya in Shukla Yajur Veda Shatapatha Brahmana/Brihadaranyaka Upanisad (3.9.2): अष्टौ वसव एकादश रुद्रा द्वादशादित्यास्त एकत्रिंशदिन्द्रश्चैव प्रजापतिश्च त्रयस्त्रिंशाविति – “The eight Vasus, the Eleven Rudras, and the twelve Adityas, these are thirty one. Indra and Prajapati make up thirty-three.” Then he provides their names:

8 Vasus

कतमे वसव इत्यग्निश्च पृथिवी च वायुश्चान्तरिक्षं चादित्यश्च द्यौश्च चन्द्रमाश्च नक्षत्राणि चैते वसव एतेषु हीदं सर्वं हितमिति तस्माद्वसव इति (बृहदारण्यकोपनिषद् ३.९.३) “Which are the Vasus? Fire, earth, air, sky, sun, heaven (abode of light), moon, stars: These are the Vasus for in them all this is placed, therefore, they are called Vasus.” Acarya Shankara explains, “The Vasus transform themselves into bodies and organs of all beings which serve as the support for their work and its fruition as also into their dwelling places. They help other beings to live and they themselves live. Because they help others to live they are called Vasus.” Please note that the word is derived from the root “vas” which means to live or to dwell. How these Devas are related to the body can be found clearly expressed in any Vedanta Prakarana Grantha.

11 Rudras

The 11 Rudras stand for the 5 Jnanendriyas, 5 Karmendriyas and the mind: कतमे रुद्रा इति दशेमे पुरुषे प्राणा आत्मैकादशस्ते यदास्माच्छरीरान्मर्त्यादुत्क्रामन्त्यथ रोदयन्ति तद्यद्रोदयन्ति तस्माद्रुद्रा इति॥बृहदारण्यकोपनिषद् ३.९.४॥ “Which are the Rudras? These ten breaths in a person with the mind as the eleventh. When they depart from this mortal body, they make us, his relatives, weep. So, because they make us weep, therefore they are called Rudras.” Please note that the word “rudra” is derived from the root “rud” which means to weep.

12 Adityas

The sun in a year’s 12 months: कतम आदित्या इति द्वादश वै मासाः संवत्सरस्यैत आदित्या एते हीदं सर्वमाददाना यन्ति ते यदिदं सर्वमाददाना यन्ति तस्मादादित्या इति॥३.९.५॥ “Which are the Adityas? Verily, the twelve months of the year, these are the Adityas, for they move carrying along all this. Since they move carrying along all this, therefore they are called Adityas.”

In other words, the 8 Vasus are related to the space dimension of the universal Samashti/Virat Purusha (collective being), the 12 Adityas are related to time dimension of the Universal Samashti/Virat Purusha, and the 11 Rudras are related to the Vyashti Purusha (individual being).

Indra is explained as “thunderbolt” and Prajapati is explained as “animals.” See 3.9.6

Ultimately, all these 33 Devas are nothing but manifestations of One Supreme Life force known as Brahman, as Maharshi Yajnavalkya clearly points out in his concluding remarks: कतम एको देव इति प्राण इति स ब्रह्म त्यदित्याचक्षते (बृहदारण्यकोपनिषद् ३.९.९) “Which is the one Deva? Prana. He is Brahman. They call him ‘tyat’ – That.”

Here I must add that according to the masters of the Nirukta, one of the 6 limbs (angas) of the Veda, there are only 3 fundamental Devas in the Vedas: Agni on the earth, Indra in the intermediate regions and Surya in the heaven, i.e. Light in three regions. All Devas are seen manifestations of these 3 Devas only. Finally, even these three Devas are also seen as manifestations of the Supreme Light, Atman, the Self.

Now, let me come to your question: What are 33 Koti Devas?

First let me point out to the following statement by Maharshi Yajnavalkya: कतमे ते त्रयश्च त्री च शता त्रयश्च त्री च सहस्रा इति, स होवाच महिमान एवैषामेते त्रयस्त्रिंशत्त्वेव देवा इति (बृहदारण्यकोपनिषद् ३.९.१-२) “Which are those three hundred and three and three thousand and three Devas which are heard in the Nivid (group of Mantras giving the number of the Devas which are recited in the hymns of praise to the Vishve-Devas – All-Devas)? To this Yajnavalkya said, They are but the manifestations of them, but there are ONLY thirty-three Devas.”

Based on this statement, we can say that the same stands for 33 Koti. Also, in Sanskrit, bigger numbers, such as सहस्र कोटि etc. denote “infinity,” as is stated by many Sanskrit commentators on  Mantras like सहस्रशीर्षा पुरुषः सहस्राक्षः सहस्रपात् etc. This is in line of the well-known Vedic statements: अनन्ता विश्वे देवाः (शुक्लयजुर्वेद शतपथ ब्राह्मण १४.६.१/२.११) “All Devas are infinite.” It is also logical. Agni, for example, is the Deva of Fire. In other words it stands for the Consciousness that resides within fire. We can call this अभिमानिदेव or उपहित-चैतन्य to use the Vedantic terminology. But how many manifestations can you have of Agni? The answer is obvious… Infinite. In this sense Devas are “Koti.”

This is the Vedic position on the 33 Devas.

Finally, a word of caution from a Vaidika: “Never make the mistake of mixing up the highly extolled Devas of the sacred Vedas and that of lower importance mentioned in the mythological stories of the Puranas (or even in the Brahmana texts). Otherwise one will always remain confused." Don't misunderstand this to be a word of caution from an Arya-samaji scholar, as many might suspect, but it is based on a saying of no one else then Madhavaracharya (1296-1386?) himself, who was a great authority on the Vedas (as is clear from his books on Mimamsa), who inspired his younger brother Sayanacharya to write a commentary on all the Vedas and was the master-mind behind the great Hindu Vijaynagar Empire, and finally, who, under the name of Vidyaranya Muni, became the 12^th Shankaracharya of Shringeri Peetha and was one of the greatest scholars of the Advaita Vedanta Tradition: त्रयस्त्रिंशद्देवेषु श्रुता वस्वादयः पुराणप्रसिद्धेभ्यो वस्वादिभ्योऽन्ये॥पराशर धर्म संहिता माधवभाष्यम् vol. १, p. २०८॥ In the Vedic scriptures Devas are seen as mere manifestations of the One Supreme Existence (Sat): “Some call it Indra, other Mitra, Varuna, Agni, or Garutman with beautiful wings who resides in the heaven. The Existence is One, but the wise express it in numerous ways. Some call it Agni, Yama or Matarishva.” (Rig Veda 1.164.64) Ultimately, it is एकमेवाद्वितीयम् – ONE ONLY, DEVOID OF TWO. But why then do we need all these Devas? For tat-tvam-padartha-shodhana. But this is another story, so let me leave it for now. Hari Om. 

[Nityanand Misra]

Thanks Siddhartha Krishna Ji for the elucidating reply.

I have read that Akṣapāda Gautama accepted the Devatās to be 33 crore in number. I do not have the exact source with me now, maybe scholars on the list may help with this.

Purāṇic sources like Vāyu Purāṇa do seem to interpret Koṭi as crore. For example

त्रयस्त्रिंशद्देवतानां ताः कोट्यो विमलात्मिकाः
पाशेनाग्निबलेनाऽशु बद्धाः सिंहबलेन च
Vā Pu 30.160

Also see Vā Pu 61.138, and the entry for Devatā in the work Paurāṇika Kośa of Rāṇāprasāda Śarmā.





On Monday, August 4, 2014 6:42:48 PM UTC+5:30, Siddhartha Krishna wrote:

Dear Shital ji,

[Nagaraj Paturi]

Thanks Siddharthaji,

 

That was really an illuminating message.

 

Regards,

 

Nagaraj

 

 

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Prof.Nagaraj Paturi

Hyderabad-500044

[Siddhartha Krishna]

For some reason I'm unable to post my answer to the questions raised in the thread started by me about a Brahmana being a cook. So, I'm posting my detailed analysis here. Respected Moderators may inform me what to do in this case. Thank you.

 

Dear Dr. Shastri ji,

Namaste,

Thank you very much for your detailed analysis of the issue at hand. Indeed, very enlightening and inspiring.

Artha Shastra is of no help other than it mentions (see 1.19.23) Mahanashika (chief cook) between a chikitsaka (physician) and mauhurtika (astrologer), which are clearly both occupations of a Brahmana. But then on the other hand it mentions an “araalika” (cook) along with persons occupied with professions that we would generally ascribe to the Shudras, such as snapaka (procurer of water for bathing), Astaraka (spreader of bed), kalpaka (barber) and prasaadhaka (toilet maker) etc. see Artha Shastra 1.12.9. Should we assume on the basis of this that while the chief cook used to be a Brahmana, other cooks working under him used to be Shudras? I would like clearer evidence to substantiate this assumption.

I’m fully aware of the sensitivity of the issue. If my statement above did hurt anybody’s sentiments, I apologize for that. It was meant as an ironical statement which stated the obvious consequences of what Shri Ajit Gargeshwari ji was suggesting, obviously I didn’t mean it.

I’m just in search of any scriptural reference which either ascribes the job of cooking to a Brahmin (as a possible “vritti”) or where clearly a Brahmin cook is mentioned in any Pauranika story.

I got interested in this because for example Manu Smriti 10.83 allows “Vaishya-vritti” (jobs of a Vaishya) for a Brahmana. But then the question arises, whose “Vritti” (job) is it to cook for others? The fact that Bhima who was looking for the job of a cook found no need to pose himself as a Brahmana, while Yudhishthira clearly had to pose himself as a Brahmana to get the job of “Kanka”, struck me quite oddly. Does this mean that the occupation of a cook is not a “brahmana-vritti”? Then whose occupation it was supposed to be in the ancient times.

Furthermore, the argument of Upaveda is unsubstantial. I say so for two reasons. 1. Paka-shastra is not part of any Upa-Veda. 2. Gandharva Veda is an Upaveda, yet it is clearly considered the domain of the Shudras by the Dharma Shastras. This is clearly stated by Madhavacharya in his Bhashyam on the Parashara Dharma Samhita in the following line: अन्येऽपि केचन धर्माः (शूद्रस्य) सन्तीति गम्यते। ते च देवलेन दर्शिताः – “शूद्रधर्मास्त्रिवर्णशुश्रूषा कलत्रादिपोषणं कर्षण-पशुपालन-भारोद्वहन-पण्यव्यवहार-चित्रकर्म-नृत्य-गीत-वेणु-वीणा-मुरज-मृदङ्गवादनानि॥पराशरधर्मसंहिता माधवभाष्यम् आचारकाण्डम् शूद्रधर्मप्रकरणम् १.६४॥

Why I assume that the job of a cook was not considered a Brahmana’s job, but that of a Shudra, because: Vishnu Purana (3.8.33) – दानं च दद्याच्छूद्रोपि पाकयज्ञैर्यजेत च and the Mahabharata – ताभ्यां शूद्रः पाकयज्ञैर्यजेताव्रतवान् स्वयम् (शान्तिपर्व) – clearly prescribe a Yajna called पाकयज्ञ for the Shudras. There are 7 Paka-yajnas - अष्टक, स्थालीपाक, पर्वण, श्रावणी, आग्रहयणी, चैत्री and आश्वीयुजी. These yajnas involve consecrating cooked items. The fact that Shudras performed these Yajnas in ancient times impels me to suppose that originally the job of a cook was that of a Shudra, and not that of a Brahmana. But, still I would like to find further substantial proof for such an assumption, because right now it is just a conjecture based on some obscure facts. However, Bhima’s episode as found in the Mahabharata, and the mentioning of a cook along with those who clearly have occupations thought to be practiced only by Shudras, as stated above by me, seems to strengthen this view.

If this is the case, then it clearly points to the fact that in ancient India Shudras were allowed to enter kitchens and even cook food for kings and emperors. Then from where came into existence this practice of not allowing them today into the kitchen? 

Therefore, I’m interested in any clear scriptural statement which may either clearly state that cooking is the job of a Shudra or, otherwise, that Shudras are not allowed into the kitchen. This is the reason I started this thread. Thank you.

 

 

To Shri ShivaSenani Nori ji:

सादरं प्रणमामि। शिष्टाचारस्त्वन्त्यं प्रमाणमिति प्राहुः प्राज्ञाः। श्रुतिस्मृत्योः किञ्चित्प्रमाणमुपलभ्यते नवेति मम प्रश्नः। अथ यदि चायं शिष्टाचारः, तर्हि किमयमाधुनिकः, प्राचीनो वा? यदि प्राचीनः, तर्हि शास्त्रेषु क्व तादृशः शिष्टाचारः परिदृश्यते। मम विचारेण तु परस्मै भोजनस्य पाचनं सेवावृत्तिः? एषा सेवावृत्तिः कदा ब्राह्मणैः समारब्धेत्यस्य विषये किञ्चिदैतिहासिकं प्रमाणमपेक्षितम्, तावदेव। स्वयंपाकादीनि व्रतानि भोजनस्य सात्त्विकत्वादिकं तु सम्यक्तयाऽवबुध्यते मया। तत्र तु पाकयज्ञादिनिर्वाहस्य शूद्रस्य पाचकत्वेपि न कश्चिद्दोषः प्रतिभाति मामित्युपर्येव सविस्तरं निरूपितमिति तत्रैव पश्यन्तु कृपया। सादरं नमो नमः॥

 

 

[Ganesh R]

Dear Scholars,

I have seen in the aapastaMbasUtra-s that SUdra-s, under the supervision of BraahmaNa-s, can even prepare food for shraadddha-s. Even in Gautama-dharmasUtra-s, it is stated that a brahmachaarin or a saMnyaasin can have their  food(bhikShaa) from shUdra-s.

As I am out of my country, now it is not possible for me to provide the exact references and hence beg my pardon.

regards

ganesh

[sunil bhattacharjya]

If the moderatorji permits I can write a few lines on the need for the brahmana to be the chief cook and how the shudra can be a cook for the brahmins.

Regards,

Sunil KB

[Ajit Gargeshwari]

=====Note===

Dear Siddhant ,

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Regards
Ajit Gargeshwari
न जायते म्रियते वा कदाचिन्नायं भूत्वा भविता वा न भूयः।
अजो नित्यः शाश्वतोऽयं पुराणो न हन्यते हन्यमाने शरीरे।।2.20।।

[Ajit Gargeshwari]

Please read the message as Dear Siddhartha, Sorry for having mi spelt his name...

Regards
Ajit Gargeshwari
न जायते म्रियते वा कदाचिन्नायं भूत्वा भविता वा न भूयः।
अजो नित्यः शाश्वतोऽयं पुराणो न हन्यते हन्यमाने शरीरे।।2.20।।

[Venkata Sriram]

Namaste,

 

Sorry for posting in wrong thread but i am replying to Ganesh's mail.

 

The Apastamba sUtra says as you mentioned:

 

parOkshaM annaM samskrutaM agnAv adhisrityAdibhiH prOkshEt

tad dEva pavitraM iti AchakshatE

 

The shudras can cook the food under the supervisions of a brAhmaNa.  When the cooking is over by a shudra, the brAhmaNa who was supervising should place the food on the fire and sprinkle with water. Only then it becomes pure and fit to be offered as vaishwadEva.

 

However, there are rules & regulations given to a shudra as a part of his conduct like trimming of nails, beard, moustache on the 8th day of every paksha; they should bath having their dhoti & anga-vastra on and should cook the food only with those clothes on their body.

 

Long back, i discussed this aspect of shudra-cooking before my guruji and he too approved this.  He said that after the main cooking is over, the shudra steps back and the final touches like adding spices mixed with oil (in telugu we say "popu veyyadam") is done by officiating brahmin which is fit to be consumed by brahmins. 

 

regs,

sriram

[R. N. iyengar]

A very fine and erudite explanation on the 33 koti devas. I take this to be the involution approach, where in Vedic samhita (usually RV) is explained in terms of the Vedantic concept of One God aka Brahman. But I think an evolutionary approach is also possible, in which physical objects, concepts, models & analysis precede in time eventually leading to generalizations, synthesis, mysticism, etc. The principle or dictum एकमेवाद्वितीयम् 

is fantastic but it also depends on 1,2, 3,..the numbers which are originally physical. This counting of physical entities in one sense is the origin of logic/scientific thinking. RV has several examples of counting devas which I like to take as deities (the word 'god' is confusing!). The largest of them is 3339, mentioned twice in RV 

trīni śatā trī sahasrānyagnim trimsacca devā nava cāsarpayan|

auksan ghrtairastrnan barhirasmā ādiddhotāram nyasādayanta||  

(RV 3.9.9; 10.52.6; also Rv Khila; TB and SYV.). The upanishad number goes upto 3333. Perhaps the extra six is missing due to PaaThaantara. The number 3339 is too special a number to be ignored as being, "poetic, indicating a large number, fanciful or whimsical". The Vedic textual tradition has retained the background in bits and pieces to unravel the puzzle. 

Vis'vedevaah (VD)

About the total number of deities recognized by RV there is considerable difference of opinion among later commentators. In one place these are mentioned as thirty three. As per the Nirukta even though there are only three natural deities localized to earth, atmosphere and sky, due to their multiple functions these are counted as thirty three. 

Nirukta (7.5) tisra eva devatā iti nairuktāh |agnih prthvīsthānah| vāyurvendro vāntariksasthānah| sūryo dyusthānah| tāsām mahābhāgyādekaikasyāpi bahūni nāmadheyāni bhavanti| api vā karma prthaktvāt||

According to this logic still larger numbers can be recognized depending on the multiplicity of actions assigned to the thirty-three deities.  In RV (1.34.11) the two aśvins are invoked to arrive along with the thirty-three deities.

RV (1.34.11) ā nāsatyā tribhir ekādaśair iha devebhir yātam madhupeyam aśvinā |

This evidently implies that the thirty-three meant some sub-group excluding aśvins who are among the important deities of RV. The unanimous agreement of all authorities on VD is their total number which is stated to be 3339.

The group of deities known as viśvedevāḥ is of considerable importance in Vedic literature and also in Hindu ancestral religious observances. It has been the practice to translate this word as All-gods, which hardly conveys the role of these deities in the Vedas. We note that viśvedevāḥ (VD) were also countable like maruts. In RV apart from many isolated verses there are fifty-eight independent hymns devoted to VD. What was the role of VD in the Vedic world view? On this point, there is difference of opinion among the later texts and commentators. As per the Nirukta all the deities together form VD

Ni.(12.39) viśvedevāh sarvedevāh|| Durgācārya in his commentary on the Nirukta takes VD to be the rays of Sun following  Śa. Br. (3.9.2.12) etasmai vai grhnāti ya esa tapati viśvebhyo hyenā devebhyo grhnāti  raśmayohyasya viśvedevāh| tasmādāha havisthā astu sūrya iti||

 There still other explanations for VD, which I will not list here. But as per the Nirukta it is multiplicity of action which increases the count. In the opinion of the scholarly compilers of Mysore Palace edition of RV  the nomenclature VD initially denoted the collection of all the Vedic deities but later got differentiated as a separate group for a special purpose, which is not explicit in the text and was probably forgotten by the tradition. Brhaddevata gives some clues to understand the action of VD.

The eleven hymns starting with (5.41) in the 5^th book of RV are devoted to VD as per the Bṛhaddevatā (B.D.5.36). ko nu vām vaiśvadevāni ekādaśa parāṇyataḥ|| According to one view all the Vedic deities structured into three sub-groups taken together are known as viśvedevāḥ

(BD 1.136) brhaspatipracoditā viśvedevāganāstrayah| jagmustritasya tamyajnam bhāgāmśca jagrhuhsaha||.  

Even though there is difficulty in finding out who were meant by these deities, a tripartite division is recognized in several places. In RV vaiśvadeva hymns are considered to be of three types, known as sūryasanstava, viśvalinga and pṛthakstuti

(BD 3.42)  vaiśvadevāni sūktāni trividhāni bhavanti tu| sūryasanstavasamyuktam viśvalingam prthakstutih||

The list of VD comprises of both individual deities and several recognized group deities. A list is given in BD where for several deities their numbers are not specified 

 BD (8.125-128) saptarsayo vasavaścāpi devā atharvāno bhrgavah somasūryāh|                               pathyā svastī rodasī coktamantre kuhūrgungūraditirdhenuraghnyā||                              asunītirilā cāptyā vidhātānurmatirha yā | angirobhih sahaitāh syuruktamantrāśca devatāh ||

                              vaiśvānaro hi suparno vivasvān prajāpatirdyauh sudhanvā nagohyah|                              apāmnapādaryamā vātajūtirilaspatiścāpi rathaspatiśca||

                              rbhavah parjanyah parvatā gnāśca dakso bhago devapatnīrdiśaśca|                             ādityā rudrāh pitaro’tha sādhyā nipātino vaiśvadevesu sarve ||        

 For example the number associated with parvatāḥ and gnāḥ is not known. BD provides names of some forty seers who had understood or realized the nature of viśvedevāḥ

 BD (3.55-60)    medhātithiragastyastu brhaduktho manurgayah| 

rjiśvā vasukarnaśca śāryāto gotamo luśah| 

svastyātreyah parucchepah kaksīvān gāthinaurvaśau |

nābhākaścaiva nirdisto dyuvasyurmamamatā sutah||

 vihavyah kaśyaparsiravatsāraśca nāma yah|

vāmadevo madhucchandāh pārtho daksasutāditih||

juhūrg rtsamadaśarsirdevāh saptarsayaśca ye|

yamo’gnistāpasah kutsah kusīdī citra eva ca||

bandhuprabhrtayaścaiva catvāro bhrātarah prthak |

visnuśca nejamesaśca nāmnā samvananaśca yah||

etetu sarva evāsya viśvaih svaih karmajairgunaih |

samastairathaca vyastaih prthak sūktesu tustuvuh ||   

 However, the hymns assigned to many of these seers are actually about agni. The traditional explanation for this apparent anomaly is; when agni’s cosmic actions are described, such a hymn should be taken to refer to VD

(BD 3.33). āgneyam sūktamaibhiryadvaiśvadevam ihocyate |

tadviśvalingam gāyatram vaiśvadevesu śasyate ||

  What was this special cosmic action of agni which took the Vedic seers beyond meteors, comets, lightning and the sun that further necessitated a set of countable deities? The answer to this question is also available in the Bṛhaddevatā  

svarbhānudṛṣṭam sūryasya apahatya tato’trayaḥ|

saptavimśatibhiḥ sūktaiḥ abodhītyagnimastuvan || (B.D. 5.12)

 

The seers of Atri family, for removing the ill effect of Sun who was seen (covered)

 by svarbhānu, woke up agni with twenty-seven hymns.

As per this tradition all the twenty-seven hymns of the fifth book devoted to agni  have some connection with solar eclipses. One can easily suspect that this relation between a solar eclipse and agni, other than indirectly indicating that Sun was recognized as a form of fire, should have been through a connection between VD and agni.

 The same VD-agni appears in the Saucika hymn of the 10th Mandala. I will not bother the readers with too many details.There is a very interesting legend about three elder brothers of saucika, who died previously etc. etc...(These hymns are connected with the Darshapurnamasa rites also.) Here again it is BD that comes to our help

BD explains the legend at great length and concludes

 

tavāgne yajna ityetat pratyārdhi svistakrcca sah|

yasya trīni sahasrāni nava trīni śatānica ||

trimśaccaivatu devānām sarvāneva varāndaduh|

tato’gnih sumanāprīto viśverdevaih puraskrtah ||   (BD 7.75,76)

 

This establishes that bringing saucīkāgni was the prime role of the VD deities numbering 3339.  If we read the saucika hymns from the 'adhidaiva' point of view, it can be surmised that a total lunar eclipse, when Moon turns red, is in the background. 3339 are the number of deities who drink moon (Soma-paana) in the dark fortnights. This makes up for 18-years, the eclipse cycle when the same type of eclipse occurs very near the same nakshatra.

More on RV, VD, Eclipse, DP-rites at

http://www.scribd.com/doc/6054392/Eclipse-period-number-3339-in-the-Rigveda-by-RNI

http://www.scribd.com/doc/13733529/Connections-between-Vedanga-Jyotisha-and-other-Vedic-Texts

http://www.scribd.com/doc/49133364/Vedic-astronomy-behind-the-darsha-purnamasa-altar

 Sorry for the long post. But the Vedic scientific naturalism is amazing and too fascinating!

Regards

RN Iyengar

PS: As the significance of the numbers receded in collective memory, only the bare numbers remained leading to new interpretations. I remember a Kannada poem from my school days: 33 ಕೋಟಿ (33 Crore). This referred to the 33 Crore people of India at the time of independence, as the 33 Croe devatas...   RNI

On Tue, Aug 5, 2014 at 10:04 AM, rniyengar <narayana...@gmail.com> wrote:

On Monday, August 4, 2014 6:42:48 PM UTC+5:30, Siddhartha Krishna wrote:

[sunil bhattacharjya]

Yes, that is what I wanted to share, but was not sure if that can come in this thread. According to Apastambha . Shudras can prepare food for the brahmins only if the cooking is supervised by a brahmin. A brahmin has to be in charge of the cooking and  has to take the role of the chief cook and its implications are obvious. This ensures the use of not only the  sattvik food ingredients, it also ensures the cleanliness levels appropriate to the brahmins.

Regards,

Sunil KB

[sheetal pokar]

क्षम्यताम् । अन्यत्र व्यस्ततया चिरेण प्रत्युत्तरामि । सिद्धार्थकृष्णवर्याय हार्दान् धन्यवादान् व्याहरामि यद् विषयेऽस्मिन्नतिविस्तरेण प्रकाशः कृतः । ममापि मतिर्यत् ३३ कोटिरिति ३३ प्रकारका देवा इति पुष्टाऽभूत् । चर्चायामस्यां भागवाहिभ्यः सर्वेभ्योऽपि भूरि भूरि धन्यवादाः ।

शीतल
શીતલ

[Rishi Goswami]

५९ पृ॰देवतानां प्राधान्यतस्त्रयस्त्रिं शत्त्वमुक्तं किन्तु स्वस्वगण-पत्नीसहितानां तासां त्रयस्त्रिंशत्कोटिसंख्यात्वं य-थोक्तं पद्मपु॰ उत्तरख॰

● “सदारा विबुधाः सर्वे स्वानां स्वानांगणैः सह। त्रैलोक्ये ते त्रयस्त्रिंशत्कोटिसंख्यतयाऽ-भवन्”। ● तेषां गणभेदाश्च गणदेवताशब्दे।

अत्र सङ्ख्याशब्दोSपि दीयते।

Please tell me chapter no and shloka number in Padma Purana. I tried to find on internet but didn't get it.

Namami

[Aravinda Rao]

Namaste, 

This puranic interpretation has created havoc. Kindly see the chapter Sakalya Brahmanam in the Brihadaranyaka Upanishad where it is clearly explained that the 33 koti (category and not crore) of gods are but a manifestation in the one Reality, Brahman.

Aravinda Rao K

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[Rishi Goswami]

Vidvajjana, namami..

Is there any Pauranika shloka-anukramanika? Please share if there is. It would be beneficial to find Shlokas and resources.

[Kushagra Aniket]

Respected scholars,

It would be very interesting if a combined Pauranika Shloka Anukramanika existed. However, it seems to be a colossal project.

Best,

Kushagra

Kushagra Aniket

Cornell University'15

ka...@cornell.edu

On Sun, May 17, 2020 at 12:04 PM Rishi Goswami <gris...@gmail.com> wrote:

Vidvajjana, namami..

Is there any Pauranika shloka-anukramanika? Please share if there is. It would be beneficial to find Shlokas and resources.

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