Samskrutha -Varna- uccharana : Visarga- Three videos from Poornaprajna Samshodhana Mandiram ( Feb 2021)
BVK Sastry (G-S-Pop)
Namaste
The three videos link below (Feb 2021 workshop) , from Poorna-Prajna-Samshodhana Mandiram / Pejawara Swamy ji could help to clarify the current understanding of Samskrutham Varna-Shikshaa.
The video is in Kannada; but it should not pose any difficulty in capturing the essence of the ‘Shikshaa’ pronunciation part.
Links: https://youtu.be/dSY_ZOtTjuM ; https://youtu.be/F5hrIWTeL_E; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dSY_ZOtTjuM ;
Why is this important ? The user-seeker does not get the ‘Yoga: Traditional Meaning, Usage guidance, Purpose and Benefit’ of Distorted Samskruth –Word’.
The errors from all these streams cumulatively flows in to ‘ Sanskrit-TECHNOLOGY ADAPTATION/MODELING/ANALYSIS.
The outcome of Panini-Language - document suffers. This also has a deep bearing on ‘How Samskruth is Taught and Used in applications.
This DISTORTION of SAMSKRUTH WORD comes in several modes ! and is prevalent widely in several academic discussions.
The distortion modes, especially when it relates to Meemaamsaa works related usage, occur through the following:
(i) By careless pronunciation (ii) regionalization (iii) reading through ‘alien script-representation’ (iv) preferred adjustments to align to a different word
(v) insensitive substitutions (vi) individual specific fine tuning of pronunciation , marked as ‘ patha- paathaka –bhedas’.
Scholars may have difference of opinion. Techno linguists have their own models to align Samskruth related Text to Speech and Speech to Text transformations, by Machine standards.
The above videos now provide a traditional reference to discuss further.
Regards
BVK Sastry
विश्वासो वासुकेयः
- तेनासौ शब्दः शुद्धहकाराद् भिन्नो भवति। नाम "हरिः", "हरः" इत्यत्र वाऽन्तिमः शब्दः "हरिह्" इति वा "हरह्" इति वोच्चारिते श्रूयमाणात् प्राक्तनस्वरच्छायारहित-शुद्धहकाराद् भिन्नो भवति।
- यः स्वरसहित-हकारसदृशः शब्दश् श्रूयेत क्वचित्, स पूर्ण-स्वर-युक्त-हकाराद् भिन्नो भवति - तस्याव्यक्ततरत्वात् निम्नध्वनित्वाद् अल्पतरमात्रात्वाच्च। नाम "हरिहि" इत्युच्चारिते यो ऽन्यवर्णसदृशं व्यक्तः हिकारश् श्रूयते ऽन्ते, तदपेक्षया "हरिः" इत्युक्तय् इकाराद् उत्तरो ऽन्तिमवर्णो ऽबुद्धुपूर्वको ऽव्यक्ततरो निम्नध्वनिश्च भवति। यावानत्रोच्चारणे व्यक्तता ऽन्तिमवर्णस्य, तावान् ह्यत्र दोषः।
- किञ्चाऽन्तिमशब्दस्य +अव्यक्ततायाम् अभावे वा प्रयत्नातिशये कृतेऽपि दोषः।
विश्वासो वासुकिजः (Vishvas Vasuki)
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Vishvas /विश्वासः
विश्वासो वासुकिजः (Vishvas Vasuki)
BVK Sastry (G-S-Pop)
Namaste Vishvas Vasuki
On < purported invariance of vaidika pronunciation across generations > :
Question: What is your view on ‘Standard Pronunciation of Samskrutha Varna-akshara –Svaras’ ? which are also technically called ‘ Shuddha-Paatha- Upa-Desha’ ? ‘UccaharaNa- AnoocchaaraNa’ ?
How would you suggest a protocol for ‘Validation of a Standard Phoneme’ - a key issue in ‘Voice-Signature-Security programs?
Experience shows that just one word ‘ It is me’ over telephone gives confirmation on Speakers Identity. How does Mind manage this ?
Regards
BVK Sastry
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Shashi Joshi
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उज्ज्वल राजपूत
Srineet Sridharan
अहं विसर्गः।
नमः सर्वेभ्यः। अहं विसर्गः। देववाणीसंस्कृतभाषायाः एकः मुख्यः अंशः। बहुषु श्लोकेष्वपि वाक्यस्यान्ते अहं श्रूये। सन्धिपाठने मम विषये अन्यः विभागः कुर्वन्ति आचार्याः। कण्ठको महासेनः इति मम उल्लेखः प्राप्यते। अहो संस्कृतमात्रा दत्तं मम गौरवम्।
किन्तु संस्कृतसन्ततयः अन्यमतयः। किमर्थम्? ताः संस्कृतजन्याः एव भाषाः। यथा हिन्दी, मराठी, ओरिया। अपि च कनडा, तेलुगु, इत्यादिष्वपि संस्कृतस्य महान् प्रभावः। ताभिः संस्कृतस्य बहवः अंशाः स्वीकृताः। केचन संयोगाः यथा क्+ष्=क्ष्, ज्+ञ्=ज्ञ्, अक्षररूपेण स्वीकृताः। किन्तु ताः सर्वाः मां त्यक्तवत्यः। किमर्थं भोः? रे महेश्वर, तव डमरूतः मम ध्वनिः न श्रुतः किम्? माहेश्वरसूत्रे मम गणना न क्रियते खलु। का एषा मम स्थितिः।
किन्तु अहं न दुःखितः। एकां एव संस्कृतमातां आश्रयरूपेण स्वीकृत्य तृप्तोऽस्मि। यदि कोऽपि पृच्छेत् कस्य एतादृशी तृप्तिः एतादृशः सन्तोषः। निश्चिन्ततया वदतु "विसर्जनीयस्य सः"।
- श्रीनीतः।
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BVK Sastry (G-S-Pop)
Namaste Shashi Joshi
Very appropriate modern illustration for ‘dangers of mis-pronunciation and machine-comprehension of human command’ - the classical Panini-Statement: Second line, particularly ‘ yajamanam hinasti –
‘mantro hIna: svarato varNato va mithyAprayukto na tamarthamAha|
sa vAgvajro yajamAnam. hinasti yathendraSatru: svarato' parAthAt||
There are many other humorous illustrations, ‘ modakaih –taadaya’….., svajana-shva-jana…..
Regards
BVK Sastry
BVK Sastry.
K S Kannan
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Sant Rajinder Singh Ji Maharaj Chair Professor, IIT-Madras.
Senior Fellow, ICSSR, New Delhi.
Academic Director, Swadeshi Indology.
Member, Academic Council, Veda Vijnana Shodha Samsthana.
Nominated Member, IIAS, Shimla.
Former Professor, CAHC, Jain University, Bangalore.Former Director, Karnataka Samskrit
University, Bangalore.
Former Head, Dept. of Sanskrit, The
National Colleges, Bangalore.
विश्वासो वासुकिजः (Vishvas Vasuki)
Namaste Vishvas Vasuki
On < purported invariance of vaidika pronunciation across generations > :
Question: What is your view on ‘Standard Pronunciation of Samskrutha Varna-akshara –Svaras’ ?
which are also technically called ‘ Shuddha-Paatha- Upa-Desha’ ?
‘UccaharaNa- AnoocchaaraNa’ ?
How would you suggest a protocol for ‘Validation of a Standard Phoneme’ - a key issue in ‘Voice-Signature-Security programs?
Experience shows that just one word ‘ It is me’ over telephone gives confirmation on Speakers Identity. How does Mind manage this ?
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bvparishat/008801d75642%24f05595d0%24d100c170%24%40gmail.com.
विश्वासो वासुकिजः (Vishvas Vasuki)
स्वाभिप्रायः बहुस्मग्दत्तः। धन्यवादः महोदय।(एवमेव मया विसर्गविषये किञ्चित् हास्यार्थमानन्दार्थं पूर्वं लिखता टिप्पणी दीयते।)अहं विसर्गः।
नमः सर्वेभ्यः। अहं विसर्गः। देववाणीसंस्कृतभाषायाः एकः मुख्यः अंशः। बहुषु श्लोकेष्वपि वाक्यस्यान्ते अहं श्रूये। सन्धिपाठने मम विषये अन्यः विभागः कुर्वन्ति आचार्याः। कण्ठको महासेनः इति मम उल्लेखः प्राप्यते। अहो संस्कृतमात्रा दत्तं मम गौरवम्।
किन्तु संस्कृतसन्ततयः अन्यमतयः। किमर्थम्? ताः संस्कृतजन्याः एव भाषाः। यथा हिन्दी, मराठी, ओरिया। अपि च कनडा, तेलुगु, इत्यादिष्वपि संस्कृतस्य महान् प्रभावः। ताभिः संस्कृतस्य बहवः अंशाः स्वीकृताः। केचन संयोगाः यथा क्+ष्=क्ष्, ज्+ञ्=ज्ञ्, अक्षररूपेण स्वीकृताः। किन्तु ताः सर्वाः मां त्यक्तवत्यः। किमर्थं भोः? रे महेश्वर, तव डमरूतः मम ध्वनिः न श्रुतः किम्? माहेश्वरसूत्रे मम गणना न क्रियते खलु। का एषा मम स्थितिः।
किन्तु अहं न दुःखितः। एकां एव संस्कृतमातां आश्रयरूपेण स्वीकृत्य तृप्तोऽस्मि। यदि कोऽपि पृच्छेत् कस्य एतादृशी तृप्तिः एतादृशः सन्तोषः। निश्चिन्ततया वदतु "विसर्जनीयस्य सः"।
- श्रीनीतः।
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BVK Sastry (G-S-Pop)
Namaste KSK
1.Agreed.
2. Was that an intended message from ‘ Shambooka-Story related to Ramayana’; a story discussed in bad light !
3. On a humour mode- modification of Panini ( even if he is inside lions belly ! )
What would be your improvisation to Panini-Caution on Voice Recognition – Commands for Computerised Missile Launch systems ? An effort to craft a poem describing the given image ?
वागाज्ञा दुष्फला भूयात् वर्ण-स्वर-विदूषिता , मिथ्यार्थ-कर्म-कारी स्यात् गणकीकृत -शस्त्रतः ।।
अलेक्सा-सिरि-शोधेन यथा लञ्चस्य लाञ्चिति ॥ जनानां यजमानानां च संक्षोभकरणं भवेत् ॥
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K S Kannan
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BVK Sastry (G-S-Pop)
Namaste
Good effort to respond. My response indented and placed below. The issue raised has remained unanswered.
^^^^^^^^^^^^
BVK Sastry ( ) :
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From: bvpar...@googlegroups.com [mailto:bvpar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of ???????? ???????? (Vishvas Vasuki)
Sent: Tuesday, June 1, 2021 12:48 PM
To: bhAratIya-vidvat-pariShad भारतीय-विद्वत्परिषद्
Subject: Re: {भारतीयविद्वत्परिषत्} Re: Samskrutha -Varna- uccharana : Visarga- Three videos from Poornaprajna Samshodhana Mandiram ( Feb 2021)
Namaste Vishvas Vasuki
On < purported invariance of vaidika pronunciation across generations > :
Question: What is your view on ‘Standard Pronunciation of Samskrutha Varna-akshara –Svaras’ ?
Who defines this "standard"?
^^^^^^^^^^^^
BVK Sastry (1 ) : NATURE, HUMAN SYSTEM WHERE THE VOICE ORIGINATES. The standard is NO DEFINED ; It is GIVEN- INBUILT.
लक्षणं न क्रियते, न वा केनापि कृतम् । यत्- प्रकृत्या सिद्धं , मानव-शरीरे तस्य विमर्शः, सदुपयोग-निर्देशः क्रियते, उपदिश्यते, बोध्यते, शिक्ष्यते, अनुभूयते ।
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which are also technically called ‘ Shuddha-Paatha- Upa-Desha’ ?
"Technically" called so in which shAstra jargon?
^^^^^^^^^^^^
BVK Sastry (2 ) : ‘ Have you explored why Patanjali repeatedly says ‘उपदेशाः शुद्धाः पठ्यन्ते? In relation to the concept of पुरुष-दोषः in Mahabhashya ?
Please explore the technicality of the term वेदाङ्गता In relation to ‘ shAstra-jargon’ ! The snippet –original with translation from Mahabhashya should clarify the importance of shuddha-patha and Universal applicability:
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‘UccaharaNa- AnoocchaaraNa’ ?
How would you suggest a protocol for ‘Validation of a Standard Phoneme’ - a key issue in ‘Voice-Signature-Security programs?
Why would I suggest any such protocol? Why is this even relevant in this thread?
^^^^^^^^^^^^
BVK Sastry (3 ) : ‘Why’ ? Because you challenged , criticized , ridiculed and came up with your mind on a ‘Practicing Tradition’ and ‘How a scholar- respected –practicing-authority of tradition presented the subject’ ! ‘Freedom of speech’ does not mean ‘free speech –option without responsibility to honourably defend the speech’ . Here is what you posted publicly .
On Mon, May 31, 2021 at 8:18 PM विश्वासो वासुकेयः <vishvas...@gmail.com> wrote: Brilliant!! Thrilling to watch this attack on the pseudo-traditional aha-ihi-uhu cough-cough pronunciation - from a person of high-standing no less! I agree to his objections, though not entirely with his conclusions. स्वाभिप्रायः
यद्यपि बहुत्र स्वाभिप्रायोऽन्यथाऽस्ति, अस्यां भाषणशृङ्खलायां पौनःपुन्येनास्य यतेः प्रयोगप्रवणता ऽनुभवबद्धता च योल्लसति, सा प्रामाणिकता ऽत्यन्तं स्फूर्तिदायिनी। प्रणमामि तस्मै हृदा।
You are free to have your opinion; have disagreement with a teaching tradition ! but modesty in expression is to be observed. Did you take / explore an opportunity to check with the researcher on why he has presented such views ? even if it is ‘within the tradition’ and ‘close corridors of Guru-Kul- traditional practice’?
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Experience shows that just one word ‘ It is me’ over telephone gives confirmation on Speakers Identity. How does Mind manage this ?
How does the mind manage to distinguish faces? What's so extraordinary if the brain has learned to distinguish voices using the voice-box specific sound signals in receives? Again, what's the context for this random questionnaire?
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BVK Sastry (4 ) : You are mixing up issues and confused ! Explore basics of ‘Shikshaa –Shaastra on Varnotpatti before talking of advanced issues like ‘ mind manage to distinguish faces’ ? and mixing with You seem to mix up the elements of ‘ Cognitive Science studies: Visual and Voice Parts : Technical terms related to संज्ञा- स्फोट analytics.
This is not a random questionnaire pl. It is a quest to know if you can provide a better insight in to the subject, beyond voicing a opinion and criticizing a tradition and traditional authority.
This is asking you to justify and defend your < स्वाभिप्रायः > Your entire narration on < विसर्गो नाम प्राक्तन-स्वरस्योच्चारणे यो वायुस् तस्यान्तिमभागस्य विसर्जनम्, तेन प्राक्तनस्वरस्य कर्तनम् इव। एवं विसृष्टो वायुभागः प्राक्तनस्वरस्य छायामिवेषदिवानुवहति। - तेनासौ शब्दः शुद्धहकाराद् भिन्नो भवति। नाम "हरिः", "हरः" इत्यत्र वाऽन्तिमः शब्दः "हरिह्" इति वा "हरह्" इति वोच्चारिते श्रूयमाणात् प्राक्तनस्वरच्छायारहित-शुद्धहकाराद् भिन्नो भवति। - यः स्वरसहित-हकारसदृशः शब्दश् श्रूयेत क्वचित्, स पूर्ण-स्वर-युक्त-हकाराद् भिन्नो भवति - तस्याव्यक्ततरत्वात् निम्नध्वनित्वाद् अल्पतरमात्रात्वाच्च। नाम "हरिहि" इत्युच्चारिते यो ऽन्यवर्णसदृशं व्यक्तः हिकारश् श्रूयते ऽन्ते, तदपेक्षया "हरिः" इत्युक्तय् इकाराद् उत्तरो ऽन्तिमवर्णो ऽबुद्धुपूर्वको ऽव्यक्ततरो निम्नध्वनिश्च भवति। यावानत्रोच्चारणे व्यक्तता ऽन्तिमवर्णस्य, तावान् ह्यत्र दोषः। किञ्चाऽन्तिमशब्दस्य +अव्यक्ततायाम् अभावे वा प्रयत्नातिशये कृतेऽपि दोषः। > is locked and limited to < voice –signal generation and processing in the framework of audio- frequency spectrum, and neural signal processing models. The ‘consciousness’ part involved in ‘mind- mapped sound-memory- comparison / identification’. Is missing.
In this respect, your < स्वाभिप्रायः > falls short of several deep frameworks involved in Panini-Shikshaa sampradaya, ‘ Maatrukaa- Paddhati- Analysis, Shiva-sutra Phoneme-analysis, Vaidika-Shikshaa-sampradaya, ’ and also ‘ the frontiers being explored in ‘Consciousness –studies, Brain-Mind interface studies’.
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Vishvas /विश्वासः
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विश्वासो वासुकिजः (Vishvas Vasuki)
Who defines this "standard"?
^^^^^^^^^^^^
BVK Sastry (1 ) : NATURE, HUMAN SYSTEM WHERE THE VOICE ORIGINATES. The standard is NO DEFINED ; It is GIVEN- INBUILT.
लक्षणं न क्रियते, न वा केनापि कृतम् । यत्- प्रकृत्या सिद्धं , मानव-शरीरे तस्य विमर्शः, सदुपयोग-निर्देशः क्रियते, उपदिश्यते, बोध्यते, शिक्ष्यते, अनुभूयते ।
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which are also technically called ‘ Shuddha-Paatha- Upa-Desha’ ?
"Technically" called so in which shAstra jargon?
^^^^^^^^^^^^
BVK Sastry (2 ) : ‘ Have you explored why Patanjali repeatedly says ‘उपदेशाः शुद्धाः पठ्यन्ते? In relation to the concept of पुरुष-दोषः in Mahabhashya ?
Please explore the technicality of the term वेदाङ्गता In relation to ‘ shAstra-jargon’ ! The snippet –original with translation from Mahabhashya should clarify the importance of shuddha-patha and Universal applicability:
सोऽयम् अक्षर-समाम्नायो वाक्य-समाम्नायः पुष्पितः फलितश् चन्द्र-तारक-वत् प्रति-मण्डितो वेदितव्यो ब्रह्म-राशिः। सर्व-वेद-पुण्य-फलावाप्तिश् चास्य ज्ञाने भवति। मातापितरौ चास्य स्वर्गे लोके महीयेते ।
----------------------------------
‘UccaharaNa- AnoocchaaraNa’ ?
How would you suggest a protocol for ‘Validation of a Standard Phoneme’ - a key issue in ‘Voice-Signature-Security programs?
Why would I suggest any such protocol? Why is this even relevant in this thread?
^^^^^^^^^^^^
BVK Sastry (3 ) : ‘Why’ ? Because you challenged , criticized , ridiculed and came up with your mind on a ‘Practicing Tradition’ and ‘How a scholar- respected –practicing-authority of tradition presented the subject’ ! ‘Freedom of speech’ does not mean ‘free speech –option without responsibility to honourably defend the speech’ . Here is what you posted publicly .
On Mon, May 31, 2021 at 8:18 PM विश्वासो वासुकेयः <vishvas...@gmail.com> wrote: Brilliant!! Thrilling to watch this attack on the pseudo-traditional aha-ihi-uhu cough-cough pronunciation - from a person of high-standing no less! I agree to his objections, though not entirely with his conclusions. स्वाभिप्रायः
यद्यपि बहुत्र स्वाभिप्रायोऽन्यथाऽस्ति, अस्यां भाषणशृङ्खलायां पौनःपुन्येनास्य यतेः प्रयोगप्रवणता ऽनुभवबद्धता च योल्लसति, सा प्रामाणिकता ऽत्यन्तं स्फूर्तिदायिनी। प्रणमामि तस्मै हृदा।
You are free to have your opinion; have disagreement with a teaching tradition ! but modesty in expression is to be observed. Did you take / explore an opportunity to check with the researcher on why he has presented such views ? even if it is ‘within the tradition’ and ‘close corridors of Guru-Kul- traditional practice’?
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Experience shows that just one word ‘ It is me’ over telephone gives confirmation on Speakers Identity. How does Mind manage this ?
How does the mind manage to distinguish faces? What's so extraordinary if the brain has learned to distinguish voices using the voice-box specific sound signals in receives? Again, what's the context for this random questionnaire?
^^^^^^^^^^^^
BVK Sastry (4 ) : You are mixing up issues and confused ! Explore basics of ‘Shikshaa –Shaastra on Varnotpatti before talking of advanced issues like ‘ mind manage to distinguish faces’ ? and mixing with You seem to mix up the elements of ‘ Cognitive Science studies: Visual and Voice Parts : Technical terms related to संज्ञा- स्फोट analytics.
This is not a random questionnaire pl. It is a quest to know if you can provide a better insight in to the subject, beyond voicing a opinion and criticizing a tradition and traditional authority.
This is asking you to justify and defend your < स्वाभिप्रायः >
In this respect, your < स्वाभिप्रायः > falls short of several deep frameworks involved in Panini-Shikshaa sampradaya, ‘ Maatrukaa- Paddhati- Analysis, Shiva-sutra Phoneme-analysis, Vaidika-Shikshaa-sampradaya, ’ and also ‘ the frontiers being explored in ‘Consciousness –studies, Brain-Mind interface studies’.
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BVK Sastry (G-S-Pop)
Namaste Vishvas Vasuki Mahodaya
( I am responding in English, point wise, for the convenience of forum readers ; It is not that I cannot respond to you on Samskrutham. ).
1. I appreciate your enthusiasm and young –energy to pursue Panini studies, albeit the path you have chosen seems to be ‘ Personal Opinion driven and overriding the Living-Tradition and Texts of Tradition’. It may take some time to figure out your own study bearings and ‘inbuilt-pitfalls and poison –pills’ in your approach.
I will let you discover these things by ‘self-experience’ and ‘ over a period of time’. I am not your teacher and you are not my student. No ill feelings, No hurt.
If you want to explore together on the areas pointed below, you are welcome.
-------------------------
2. On < सदुपयोगनिर्देश इत्य् उक्तम्। के नामैते सदुपयोक्तारः? अह-इहि-उहु-वाचिनो वा अह्-इह्-उह्-वाचिनो वा? अस्मिन् प्रश्नभाग अस्पष्टायां सतायां मदभिप्रायकथनं कुतो नाम सम्भवेत्। > :
Response: Tradition has answered this in the technicality of the terms: < शिष्टाः, आर्याभिधान-काक्षिणः सत्य-वाक्य- प्रयोक्तारः , मन्त्रकृतः, मन्त्र-प्रयोक्तारः - संग्रहेण : संस्कृत-वाचिनः> . There is no < प्रश्नभाग अस्पष्टायां सतायां > .
--------------------------
3. On < अयम् उद्धारो महाभाष्यान्न - अपि तु तस्य कस्याश्चिट् टीकाया इति भाति। …सोऽयम् अक्षर-समाम्नायो वाक्य-समाम्नायः पुष्पितः फलितश् चन्द्र-तारक-वत् प्रति-मण्डितो वेदितव्यो ब्रह्म-राशिः। सर्व-वेद-पुण्य-फलावाप्तिश् चास्य ज्ञाने भवति। मातापितरौ चास्य स्वर्गे लोके महीयेते । प्रकृतम् अनुसृत्य - परम्परया ज्ञेयो ऽक्षरसमाम्नाय इति चेद् अस्तु - परम्पराणाम् एकरूपता नास्तीति, कालक्रमेण परम्परासु दोषा प्रवेष्टुम् अर्हन्तीति च स्मर्तव्यम्। अन्यथा कथं नाम क्वचिद् अह-इहि-उह्व् इति क्वचिन्न? क्वचित् साधुसंवृताकारः, क्वचिद् विवृतः? नाम परम्परास्पष्टीकरणं विना, ‘Standard Pronunciation of Samskrutha Varna-akshara –Svaras’" = सुद्धपाठोपदेश इति न स्पष्टम् भवति। > :
Response: The intent is explained in source, amplified and explained in commentary, put to practice in teaching –practicing tradition. The impurities that get added on in teaching tradition are called ‘ human defects’. The texts help to get back to the ‘ fruit-yielding pronunciation and practice’ with vigilant audit and corrections. If that has not happened, has not been adapted, defective pronunciation imposed and practiced as ‘ popular-deliverable’, the source cannot be blamed or held responsible for it.
The sad part noticed and endorsed by the respected swamy ji in the video is widespread presence of ‘such human defects’ masquerading as ‘ tradition and authentic’. Just as ‘knowledge tradition’ continues, the ‘ osmosis of human defects also continue in every period and community. The scholar has a choice to make and support the side one wants to.
---------------------------------
4. On < I have enquired many people about aha-ihi-uhu pronunciation and more. Why should I assume that I am a lazy bum who mouths off without undertaking reasonable effort? …… I remain mystified as to what this has to do with Voice-Signature-Security protocol etc.. You can disagree with and challenge my opinions, but throwing in hollow buzzwords and putting crooked (rather than straightforward) questions don't seem to be a good way to go about it. > :
Response: a) ‘Samskrutham’ is not about what ‘others do –say’. Samskrutham is ‘How well the individual speaker, for himself, articulates the thought in a ‘refined unified mode’ ( a standard of spoken expression set by Hanuman, appreciated by Sri Rama, and articulated in Ramayana). It is freedom from technicality of ‘अपभाषित‘. So the directive is to make self-effort for ‘ generating -articulating refined speech –expression, technically called ‘सूक्ति.’ Samskrutham is NOT statistically significant model of language ! It is Process-output standards.
Response:b) If you don’t know what is pointed to by the terms < Voice-Signature-Security protocol, ….> studies in relation to ‘ Panini-Sanskrit studies’, and think that these are < hollow buzz words and putting c rooked ? !>, please update your information on Samskruth-Panini-Related research going on globally at lead institutes ; where ‘ content is drawn from Panini language –tradition –usage / the translation is made stripping out all references to source / problem generalized / reported back as a High Tech-High Profile Language-Technology project for Non-english-like languages of India , demanding ‘ Indian Language technology solutions’.
Perhaps this is far too much outside of the domain of projects focused on ‘ putting and searching devanagari language characters on screen and devices’. Project to build digital systems and methods for ‘processing ‘Devanagari Varna-maalaa’ on its own merits with right modelling of Panini-Language is work in progress.
----------------------------------
5. On < If you want me to justify and defend my abhiprAya, you could have skipped the silly games and strightforwardly stated your objections and solicited my response...... If this is what you intend to show, you should do a better job. If it violates pANinIya shixA you may note the appropriate shloka and show that the stated "abhiprAya" runs counter to it. Just declaring "It violates Shiva-sutra Phoneme-analys is yo" is about as useful as "I don't like Ice Cream" in that there can be no useful response to it. > :
Response: Perhaps, I was under the incorrect impression that you had the tradition schooling to get the delineated clarity on the Pahininiya Shiksha –sutra, references below :
आत्मा बुद्ध्या समेत्यार्थान्मनोयुङ्क्ते विवक्षया । मनः कायाग्निमाहन्ति सः प्रेरयति मारुतम् ॥ ६॥
मारुस्तूरसिचरन्मन्द्रं जनयति स्वरम् । …. सोदीर्णो मूर्ध्न्यभिहतोवक्रमापद्य मारुतः ।
…….वर्णाञ्जनयतेतेषां विभागः पञ्चधा स्मृतः ॥ ९ ||
Your <swaabhipraaya > is locked to a narrow segment of the text reading < … मारुतः । and jumping to वर्णाञ्जनयतेतेषां…. Leaving out the intermediary processes ; that too superimposing an inaccurate academic understanding.
Your < objection> is touching in the areas where Current researchers in Linguistics, Neural network sciences, Cognitive Sciences, Computational linguistic sciences, HMI, A.I, Consciousness studies … are investigating and have not raised from ‘ physical air movement- glottis shape and the like’ to the technicality of ‘ मारुत - कायाग्नि - इन्द्रिय- मनस् - आत्मा ‘- traditional postulates.
I hope this helps to say what ‘Ice cream’ in ‘Panini’ is.
-----------------------------------
With Regards
विश्वासो वासुकिजः (Vishvas Vasuki)
Namaste Vishvas Vasuki Mahodaya
( I am responding in English, point wise, for the convenience of forum readers ; It is not that I cannot respond to you on Samskrutham. ).
1. I appreciate your enthusiasm and young –energy to pursue Panini studies, albeit the path you have chosen seems to be ‘ Personal Opinion driven and overriding the Living-Tradition and Texts of Tradition’.
It may take some time to figure out your own study bearings and ‘inbuilt-pitfalls and poison –pills’ in your approach.
I will let you discover these things by ‘self-experience’ and ‘ over a period of time’. I am not your teacher and you are not my student. No ill feelings, No hurt.
If you want to explore together on the areas pointed below, you are welcome.
-------------------------
2. On < सदुपयोगनिर्देश इत्य् उक्तम्। के नामैते सदुपयोक्तारः? अह-इहि-उहु-वाचिनो वा अह्-इह्-उह्-वाचिनो वा? अस्मिन् प्रश्नभाग अस्पष्टायां सतायां मदभिप्रायकथनं कुतो नाम सम्भवेत्। > :
Response: Tradition has answered this in the technicality of the terms: < शिष्टाः, आर्याभिधान-काक्षिणः सत्य-वाक्य- प्रयोक्तारः , मन्त्रकृतः, मन्त्र-प्रयोक्तारः - संग्रहेण : संस्कृत-वाचिनः> . There is no < प्रश्नभाग अस्पष्टायां सतायां > .
3. On < अयम् उद्धारो महाभाष्यान्न - अपि तु तस्य कस्याश्चिट् टीकाया इति भाति। …सोऽयम् अक्षर-समाम्नायो वाक्य-समाम्नायः पुष्पितः फलितश् चन्द्र-तारक-वत् प्रति-मण्डितो वेदितव्यो ब्रह्म-राशिः। सर्व-वेद-पुण्य-फलावाप्तिश् चास्य ज्ञाने भवति। मातापितरौ चास्य स्वर्गे लोके महीयेते । प्रकृतम् अनुसृत्य - परम्परया ज्ञेयो ऽक्षरसमाम्नाय इति चेद् अस्तु - परम्पराणाम् एकरूपता नास्तीति, कालक्रमेण परम्परासु दोषा प्रवेष्टुम् अर्हन्तीति च स्मर्तव्यम्। अन्यथा कथं नाम क्वचिद् अह-इहि-उह्व् इति क्वचिन्न? क्वचित् साधुसंवृताकारः, क्वचिद् विवृतः? नाम परम्परास्पष्टीकरणं विना, ‘Standard Pronunciation of Samskrutha Varna-akshara –Svaras’" = सुद्धपाठोपदेश इति न स्पष्टम् भवति। > :
Response: The intent is explained in source, amplified and explained in commentary, put to practice in teaching –practicing tradition. The impurities that get added on in teaching tradition are called ‘ human defects’. The texts help to get back to the ‘ fruit-yielding pronunciation and practice’ with vigilant audit and corrections. If that has not happened, has not been adapted, defective pronunciation imposed and practiced as ‘ popular-deliverable’, the source cannot be blamed or held responsible for it.
The sad part noticed and endorsed by the respected swamy ji in the video is widespread presence of ‘such human defects’ masquerading as ‘ tradition and authentic’. Just as ‘knowledge tradition’ continues, the ‘ osmosis of human defects also continue in every period and community. The scholar has a choice to make and support the side one wants to.
---------------------------------
4. On < I have enquired many people about aha-ihi-uhu pronunciation and more. Why should I assume that I am a lazy bum who mouths off without undertaking reasonable effort? …… I remain mystified as to what this has to do with Voice-Signature-Security protocol etc.. You can disagree with and challenge my opinions, but throwing in hollow buzzwords and putting crooked (rather than straightforward) questions don't seem to be a good way to go about it. > :
Response: a) ‘Samskrutham’ is not about what ‘others do –say’. Samskrutham is ‘How well the individual speaker, for himself, articulates the thought in a ‘refined unified mode’ ( a standard of spoken expression set by Hanuman, appreciated by Sri Rama, and articulated in Ramayana). It is freedom from technicality of ‘अपभाषित‘. So the directive is to make self-effort for ‘ generating -articulating refined speech –expression, technically called ‘सूक्ति.’ Samskrutham is NOT statistically significant model of language ! It is Process-output standards.
Response:b) If you don’t know what is pointed to by the terms < Voice-Signature-Security protocol, ….> studies in relation to ‘ Panini-Sanskrit studies’, and think that these are < hollow buzz words and putting c rooked ? !>, please update your information on Samskruth-Panini-Related research going on globally at lead institutes ; where ‘ content is drawn from Panini language –tradition –usage / the translation is made stripping out all references to source / problem generalized / reported back as a High Tech-High Profile Language-Technology project for Non-english-like languages of India , demanding ‘ Indian Language technology solutions’.
Perhaps this is far too much outside of the domain of projects focused on ‘ putting and searching devanagari language characters on screen and devices’. Project to build digital systems and methods for ‘processing ‘Devanagari Varna-maalaa’ on its own merits with right modelling of Panini-Language is work in progress.
----------------------------------
5. On < If you want me to justify and defend my abhiprAya, you could have skipped the silly games and strightforwardly stated your objections and solicited my response...... If this is what you intend to show, you should do a better job. If it violates pANinIya shixA you may note the appropriate shloka and show that the stated "abhiprAya" runs counter to it. Just declaring "It violates Shiva-sutra Phoneme-analys is yo" is about as useful as "I don't like Ice Cream" in that there can be no useful response to it. > :
Response: Perhaps, I was under the incorrect impression that you had the tradition schooling to get the delineated clarity on the Pahininiya Shiksha –sutra, references below :
आत्मा बुद्ध्या समेत्यार्थान्मनोयुङ्क्ते विवक्षया । मनः कायाग्निमाहन्ति सः प्रेरयति मारुतम् ॥ ६॥
मारुस्तूरसिचरन्मन्द्रं जनयति स्वरम् । …. सोदीर्णो मूर्ध्न्यभिहतोवक्रमापद्य मारुतः ।
…….वर्णाञ्जनयतेतेषां विभागः पञ्चधा स्मृतः ॥ ९ ||
Your <swaabhipraaya > is locked to a narrow segment of the text reading < … मारुतः । and jumping to वर्णाञ्जनयतेतेषां…. Leaving out the intermediary processes ; that too superimposing an inaccurate academic understanding.
Your < objection> is touching in the areas where Current researchers in Linguistics, Neural network sciences, Cognitive Sciences, Computational linguistic sciences, HMI, A.I, Consciousness studies … are investigating and have not raised from ‘ physical air movement- glottis shape and the like’ to the technicality of ‘ मारुत - कायाग्नि - इन्द्रिय- मनस् - आत्मा ‘- traditional postulates.
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BVK Sastry (G-S-Pop)
Namaste Vishvas Vasuki Mahodaya
Thanks for the response. I am happy to note that I have to respond only to select points.
You have clarified your temperament for the purpose of this dialogue very clearly ! as < my nature is to refuse to cooperate and act as a foil for grandiose nonsense. >
1. On < अतो भवदभिप्राये के शिष्टा इति ऋजु वक्तुं भवतो धैर्यं नास्ति चेत्, भवदभिप्रायं वेत्तुं, विदित्वा प्रतिवक्तुं कथं वा कश्चिद् दूरस्थः शक्नुयात्? भीरुताम् अपाकृत्य स्पष्ट-स्वाभिप्रायकथने प्रयत्नं करोतु। > : Why are you drifting the issue to personal courage ? I have not asked for your judgement on the ‘ speaker in the video’. I have answered about the ‘Standards’ point clearly in my post. : Learning-Using Samskrutham / saMskRta ( which you prefer) .
Please contemplate on the earlier response reading : 'Samskrutham’ is not about what ‘others do –say’. Samskrutham is ‘How well the individual speaker, for himself, articulates the thought in a ‘refined unified mode’. Do you meet this standard ? Do you have any difficulty with this ‘ऋजु -धैर्यं ‘ for self-assessment ? ? Aim for self-assessment before judging and going after others. The ‘शिष्ट’ are recognized. They are not judged !
2. On < I am sorry to use such a strong word, but this is entirely bullshit... voice-signature security protocol or anything close to it does not use pANini-sanskrit studies.. I challenge you to demonstrate any such research by "any lead institute". By claiming such links, you are actively propagating nonsense, and doing great disservice to the gravitas of what you call "Panini language –tradition" and its genuine votaries. .. I am sorry to use such a strong word, but this is entirely bullshit. I am reminded of this thread in another mailing list - https://groups.google.com/g/sanskrit-programmers/c/j8oZrKI32O4 . voice-signature security protocol or anything close to it does not use pANini-sanskrit studies... I know of such efforts, but you seem to be talking about your own work (with which I am not familiar) - Is this progress visible somewhere? Or is just vapour? >
I let you live in your 'realm of happiness' and dream world ! This shows very clearly that you have no understanding/ nay different understanding of 'Panini-Language Modelling' treating it as one more language like 'English' , as taught by colonials ! The ‘Samskruth-Computer /Panini-Machine’ work is very much in progress, real and live. All ongoing research is not thrown open to satisfy curios people. In case you want to read more pl. feel free to explore my published work: https://www.amazon.com/SANSKRIT-COMPUTERS-revisit-2020-VENKATAKRISHNA-SASTRY/dp/B089CSNGG2 [ Please understand - I am not promoting the book, through this opportunity and platform. ].
3. On <Let me go forth and say - I am quite certain that for all the bluster above, no one (specially including you) is not going to revolutionize Neural network sciences, Cognitive Sciences, Computational linguistic sciences, HMI, A.I by applying "pANinIya shixA" or "sphoTa theory" or whatever. People are welcome to keep trying or pretending that they're doing something great without anything to show for it - but the world won't be fooled and will mostly see through such प्रतारण. > :
Good to see that you want to have yourself excluded in a global emerging area of ‘Cognitive Linguistic –Sciences’ by passing short-sighted, biased and definitive judgement-sentences ! Even before understanding the ongoing work, development and powers driving the work. May be you need the ‘ teertham’ from a specific ‘ conch’ of your liking. I hope someday you will be free from your blinker-blocked vision towards Panini-Language to see the reality and power.
Till then, Keep Peace.
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विश्वासो वासुकिजः (Vishvas Vasuki)
Namaste Vishvas Vasuki Mahodaya
Thanks for the response. I am happy to note that I have to respond only to select points.
You have clarified your temperament for the purpose of this dialogue very clearly ! as < my nature is to refuse to cooperate and act as a foil for grandiose nonsense. >
1. On < अतो भवदभिप्राये के शिष्टा इति ऋजु वक्तुं भवतो धैर्यं नास्ति चेत्, भवदभिप्रायं वेत्तुं, विदित्वा प्रतिवक्तुं कथं वा कश्चिद् दूरस्थः शक्नुयात्? भीरुताम् अपाकृत्य स्पष्ट-स्वाभिप्रायकथने प्रयत्नं करोतु। > : Why are you drifting the issue to personal courage ? I have not asked for your judgement on the ‘ speaker in the video’. I have answered about the ‘Standards’ point clearly in my post. : Learning-Using Samskrutham / saMskRta ( which you prefer) .
Please contemplate on the earlier response reading : 'Samskrutham’ is not about what ‘others do –say’. Samskrutham is ‘How well the individual speaker, for himself, articulates the thought in a ‘refined unified mode’. Do you meet this standard ? Do you have any difficulty with this ‘ऋजु -धैर्यं ‘ for self-assessment ? ? Aim for self-assessment before judging and going after others. The ‘शिष्ट’ are recognized. They are not judged !
That said, I can't help but laugh at your throwing so much dung to hide your inability / unwillingness to clarify what tradition you refer to in association "Standard Pronunciation of Samskrutha Varna-akshara –Svaras ... technically called ... ‘ Shuddha-Paatha- Upa-Desha’ ? ‘UccaharaNa- AnoocchaaraNa’ ". What a golden example of "How well the individual speaker, for himself, articulates the thought in a ‘refined unified mode’" - LOL.
Not to mention, you claimed my abhiprAya of how visarga should be pronounced falls short of "Panini-Shikshaa sampradaya, ‘ Maatrukaa- Paddhati- Analysis, Shiva-sutra Phoneme-analysis, Vaidika-Shikshaa-sampradaya, ’ and also ‘ the frontiers being explored in ‘Consciousness –studies, Brain-Mind interface studies’" without being able to demonstrate anything solid beyond throwing in such buzzwords. And you still wonder why the issue of your courage and forthrightness (or lack of it) is pertinent.
pl. feel free to explore my published work: https://www.amazon.com/SANSKRIT-COMPUTERS-revisit-2020-VENKATAKRISHNA-SASTRY/dp/B089CSNGG2 [ Please understand - I am not promoting the book, through this opportunity and platform. ].
If your emails are anything to go by: it will all still be description of shasha-shRnga articulated in ‘refined unified mode’. You can write on cold fusion while at it! :-D
3. On <Let me go forth and say - I am quite certain that for all the bluster above, no one (specially including you) is not going to revolutionize Neural network sciences, Cognitive Sciences, Computational linguistic sciences, HMI, A.I by applying "pANinIya shixA" or "sphoTa theory" or whatever. People are welcome to keep trying or pretending that they're doing something great without anything to show for it - but the world won't be fooled and will mostly see through such प्रतारण. > :
Good to see that you want to have yourself excluded in a global emerging area of ‘Cognitive Linguistic –Sciences’ by passing short-sighted, biased and definitive judgement-sentences !
Even before understanding the ongoing work, development and powers driving the work. May be you need the ‘ teertham’ from a specific ‘ conch’ of your liking. I hope someday you will be free from your blinker-blocked vision towards Panini-Language to see the reality and power.
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Shashi Joshi
Thanks,
Shashi
Nagaraj Paturi
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उज्ज्वल राजपूत
I let you live in your 'realm of happiness' and dream world ! This shows very clearly that you have no understanding/ nay different understanding of 'Panini-Language Modelling' treating it as one more language like 'English' , as taught by colonials !
https://www.amazon.com/SANSKRIT-COMPUTERS-revisit-2020-VENKATAKRISHNA-SASTRY/dp/B089CSNGG2 [ Please understand - I am not promoting the book, through this opportunity and platform. ].
Dr.BVK Sastry
Namaste Vishvas Vasuki Mahodaya
(1. Trail mail left below for readers reference. 2. I am listening to the advice of seniors and forum moderators. In view of this, I feel there is no need to respond to negative, emotional, personal outbursts and targeted personal opinions on Panini-Research-Deliverables’ in my response below.)
Focusing on post-response specific issues:
Issue 1 (Tradition which sets Samskrutham:Standard Pronunciation) .
On <clarify what tradition you refer to in association "Standard Pronunciation of Samskrutha Varna-akshara –Svaras ... technically called ... ‘Shuddha-Paatha- Upa-Desha’ ?> :
Response (1) : The ‘Standard Pronunciation of Samskrutha Varna-akshara –Svaras ... technically called ... ‘Shuddha-Paatha- Upa-Desha ‘ – also linked to ‘Shiva-sutras’ - is the tradition approved and adapted by Panini-Patanjali. This is called as 'Vednaga- Shikshaa-Shaastra'.
The IPA (International Phonetic Association) standards and notations fall short in capturing the requisite precision of 'Vedanga - Shikshaa- Shaastra'. The modeling of 'visarga' in Panini-Patanjali sampradaya follows a different modelling and analytics compared to the one followed in IPA and other 'language-teaching -training disciplines'.
This is stated upfront in Patanjali Mahabhashya tradition explaining the purpose of ' Vyakarana-study'.
To learn 'Maatrukaa- Paddhati', one need to serve the 'Dvaitacharya tradition and receive 'upadesha' on'Varna-akshara-Viniyoga'.
Other options in tradition is to learn from 'Sri-Vidya-Practitioners on technicality of Beeja-akshara nyasa-vinyasa'.
One more option is to get to a ' Veda- shikshaka' who is trained in 'Shadanga- Vedanga-Vak-yoga' sampradaya.
My earlier statement stands thus : < Current prevalent views on how visarga should be pronounced falls short of "Panini-Shikshaa sampradaya, ‘ Maatrukaa- Paddhati- Analysis, Shiva-sutra Phoneme-analysis, Vaidika-Shikshaa-sampradaya’. These are traditions for 'learning-using -Samskrutham'; The training is not for 'demonstration of lung power driven word-circus and jugglery in creating a flutter of sounds'.
Issue 2 (Satisfying appetite of free culture):
Response (2) : To satisfy the 'Free Culture' appetite, there are enough 'free pages' of book accessible at the link provided for the publication.
Issue 3 All other irrelevant non-issues and outbursts
Response (3) : There is no need to respond. The Simple conclusion: There is need to help people on how to see ‘Panini- Language- Modelling Clearly without blinkers and colored lens’. This would help to resolve the challenge-statement tagged to NASA/ Dr. Briggs stands out since 1984 standing to resolve and deliver. The help needed is in deriving the Science of 'Human-Machine- Interface Model' from Panini-Patanjali-Yaska Vedanga Vakyoga-Samskrutham tradition.
A little bit on genesis of this exchange: This thread issue started from my sharing a reference to 'videos'- providing a traditional reference to discuss 'Samskruth -Articulation -Standards'. The exchange was triggered due to the response < यद्यपि बहुत्र स्वाभिप्रायोऽन्यथाऽस्ति, - I agree to his objections, though not entirely with his conclusions. Also, certain corollaries easily branch off this regarding the purported invariance of vaidika pronunciation across generations. ... Thrilling to watch this attack on the pseudo-traditional aha-ihi-uhu cough-cough pronunciation - from a person of high-standing no less! >
This is where I was prompted to seek more helpful elucidation of what was covered under the hood of < स्वाभिप्रायोऽन्यथाऽस्ति >.
Development to a degenerated response : The response was completely defocused and degenerated from the focus of the issue, namely ‘Samskruth Varnakshara : Pronunciation standards by Traditional norms’. .
In my opinion, it is critical that the basics about the design, intent, purpose of 'Paniniya Shkishaa and Vedangataa of Vyakarana' need to be concurred on this scholarly forum. Failing which the proliferation of negativity and false views will fill the space.
My submission: I welcome any one/ team wiling to join my effort to design and deliver a 101 lesson on ‘Samskruth Varnakshara :Pronunciation standards by Traditional norms’ which can be useful for ‘Samskruth-computer-Panini Research’. The course could be subject to audit by a team of peers and learned senior scholars well versed in Samskruth Language related to Computing and Cognitive Technology. The course plans to explore the ‘Science and Technology direction of the lead – question :: 'Kimartham adhyeyam Vyakaranam' ? 'Why Shikhsaa precedes Vyakarana and Nirukta follows Vyakarana in study-prescription. The starting investigation would yield ‘ Exploration of Shiva-sutras to get at the Voice- Character set’ for ‘Programming Language Models and Processes’.
This is to set a framework to explain 'What Panini -Research means and aims for in vision of Panini Machine' .
Regards
BVK Sastry
विश्वासो वासुकिजः (Vishvas Vasuki)
Issue 3 All other irrelevant non-issues and outbursts
Response (3) : There is no need to respond. The Simple conclusion: There is need to help people on how to see ‘Panini- Language- Modelling Clearly without blinkers and colored lens’. This would help to resolve the challenge-statement tagged to NASA/ Dr. Briggs stands out since 1984 standing to resolve and deliver. The help needed is in deriving the Science of 'Human-Machine- Interface Model' from Panini-Patanjali-Yaska Vedanga Vakyoga-Samskrutham tradition.
The crux of the paper, in the author's own words:
"Among the accomplishments of the grammarians can be reckoned a method for paraphrasing Sanskrit in a manner that is identical not only in essence but in form with current work in Artificial Intelligence. This article demonstrates that a natural language can serve as an artificial
language also, and that much work in AI has been reinventing a wheel millenia old ."
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BVK Sastry (G-S-Pop)
Namaste
1. Dr. Briggs Paper is invoked once more with an observation < Unlike Sanskrit, 40 years is like ages in a field like Artificial Intelligence. > . I agree. May be Samskruth-Computer enthusiasts may start a separate thread to discuss this isuse.
2. On < Sphota or kAraka is NOT the cutting edge of AI research.>. You are free to stand by your opinion. Here is something that may be of interest in regard to A.I and NLP –Samskrutham, as a logically perfect language: A logically perfect language has rules of syntax which pre[1]vent nonsense, and has single symbols which always have a definite and unique meaning. Mr Wittgenstein is concerned with the conditions for a logically perfect language—not that any language is logically perfect, or that we believe ourselves capable, here and now, of constructing a logically perfect language, but that the whole function of language is to have meaning, and it only fulfils this function in proportion as it approaches to the ideal language which we postulate.
FREE down load of book at ‘ https://www.gutenberg.org/files/5740/5740-pdf.pdf -Tractatus -Logico-Philosophicus -By-LUDWIG WITTGENSTEIN ;
3. On < understand that there exist computers today which (when provided similar large-scale context) are able to match and beat humans in natural language understanding (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Watson_(computer)#Jeopardy! ) without taking resort to the use of shAstrik sanskrit or some other natural language for that matter. >
May be the links below help to give the panorama ahead in A.I related ! and where ‘Panini- Designs’ are being used, albeit some resources shy away not mentioning the ‘ names’ .
I do understand the fear, sensitivity, Samskruth-phobia, anglophobia, shyness and shame of many in taking recourse to ‘Samskruth –Source and Terms, document acknowledgement’, especially in A.I / NLP related research !
Such source acknowledgement is considered a Taboo and cause of falling an outcaste! Another model of this is ‘Samskruth –bashing and negativity using incongruous, inappropriate references’ on Samskruth-Language-Model potential to deliver cutting edge technology solutions. !
Any way here below are the links:
a) Google AI Blog: KELM: Integrating Knowledge Graphs with Language Model Pre-training Corpora (googleblog.com) - Samskruth Term/Model: दळ-कृत्य- विमर्श
b) Fundamentals of NLP research in Sanskrit (indiaai.gov.in) – Nikhil Malhotra , Global Head of tech innovation at Tech Mahindra
c) 10 Leading Language Models For NLP In 2021 (topbots.com) - Samskruth Term/Model: भाषा- उप्भाषा-शाखा- जननम्) - प्रकृति-विकृति प्रक्रिया
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Sivasenani Nori
3. On < understand that there exist computers today which (when provided similar large-scale context) are able to match and beat humans in natural language understanding (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Watson_(computer)#Jeopardy! ) without taking resort to the use of shAstrik sanskrit or some other natural language for that matter. >
May be the links below help to give the panorama ahead in A.I related ! and where ‘Panini- Designs’ are being used, albeit some resources shy away not mentioning the ‘ names’ .
I do understand the fear, sensitivity, Samskruth-phobia, anglophobia, shyness and shame of many in taking recourse to ‘Samskruth –Source and Terms, document acknowledgement’, especially in A.I / NLP related research !
Such source acknowledgement is considered a Taboo and cause of falling an outcaste! Another model of this is ‘Samskruth –bashing and negativity using incongruous, inappropriate references’ on Samskruth-Language-Model potential to deliver cutting edge technology solutions. !
Any way here below are the links:
a) Google AI Blog: KELM: Integrating Knowledge Graphs with Language Model Pre-training Corpora (googleblog.com) - Samskruth Term/Model: दळ-कृत्य- विमर्श
b) Fundamentals of NLP research in Sanskrit (indiaai.gov.in) – Nikhil Malhotra , Global Head of tech innovation at Tech Mahindra
c) 10 Leading Language Models For NLP In 2021 (topbots.com) - Samskruth Term/Model: भाषा- उप्भाषा-शाखा- जननम्) - प्रकृति-विकृति प्रक्रिया
विश्वासो वासुकिजः (Vishvas Vasuki)
a) Google AI Blog: KELM: Integrating Knowledge Graphs with Language Model Pre-training Corpora (googleblog.com) - Samskruth Term/Model: दळ-कृत्य- विमर्श
b) Fundamentals of NLP research in Sanskrit (indiaai.gov.in) – Nikhil Malhotra , Global Head of tech innovation at Tech Mahindra
c) 10 Leading Language Models For NLP In 2021 (topbots.com) - Samskruth Term/Model: भाषा- उप्भाषा-शाखा- जननम्) - प्रकृति-विकृति प्रक्रिया \
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venkat veeraraghavan
“If you can't explain it to a six year old, you don't understand it yourself.” ---Albert Einstein.
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Shashi Joshi
Kalicharan Tuvij
विश्वासो वासुकिजः (Vishvas Vasuki)
Dr BVK has been consistent throughout this forum's history. And there is no such thing as "consistent garbage"; even "Alice in Wonderland" being a work of value. But, again, only those who are a bit older can understand this.
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Kalicharan Tuvij
For that matter Islam, Christianity, Lemurism (Dravidianism) are consistent as well.
Shashi Joshi
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विश्वासो वासुकिजः (Vishvas Vasuki)
Thread expiry date has arrived.
Thanks,
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Nagaraj Paturi
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Shashi Joshi
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विश्वासो वासुकिजः (Vishvas Vasuki)
Why am I not allowed to share my views about the discussion publicly, as publicly as everyone else is doing? And why should I send private messages to the admin? I am not complaining. I am giving hints to the participants that the content is not new or entertaining or adding value to the topic.
When a discussion about how to pronounce visarga starts talking about Lemur and other wildlife -isms, it indeed betrays the lack of focus on the part of the participants, and reminds me of king Julian of 'move-it' fame.
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Shashi Joshi
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विश्वासो वासुकिजः (Vishvas Vasuki)
Aah!I presumed you would know all about Google and its products, to find about King Julian :) :)
It went a bit too far, too off-track.A visarga pronunciation thread has Lemurian reference.
So, maybe you can have the lively conversation in a private email :) :)
By the way, it is entertaining, indeed!
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Nagaraj Paturi
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