Pump actuation lag when raising brew lever

[HowardG]

My 13-year-old Brewtus III-V has developed another issue. There is now an initial three-second lag between the time I raise the brew lever and when the pump activates. However, this behavior only occurs on the first pump actuation of a brewing session: that is, after having turned on the power to the machine and having allowed it to heat up. It does not happen on subsequent brew-lever actuations of the pump once the machine has come up to temp.

I have also noticed that when I power on the cold machine, the pump often actuates immediately, presumably to add water to a boiler. There is no lag on these occasions when switching on the power. The lag only occurs on the first actuation of the pump by raising the brew lever.

Any ideas? Could it be something wrong with the brew-lever switch the sticks through the case and rests against a cam of the lever? Is it possible to get a replacement switch?

Thanks!

Howard Griffin

[Murray Roblin]

Someone reported a similar issue earlier this year (?).

https://groups.google.com/g/brewtus/c/ngwkLjW_54w

[Dunja]

This is interesting, my Brewtus is of a similar age and I also just encountered a similar problem: there is a 1-2 sec delay from the point I raise the lever to the point the pump activates (and also only at the start of the day). 

Thanks for the link @Murray - that might solve this issue.

Best,

Dunja

[Eric Christoffersen]

At least take a look at the control board, something burned? Relay stuck? Capacitor swollen? I'd love to understand the cause of the delay.

[howard...@gmail.com]

OK. I will do that tomorrow and take some pics and post them here.

Sent from my iPad

On Jul 24, 2023, at 8:06 PM, Eric Christoffersen <zak...@gmail.com> wrote:

At least take a look at the control board, something burned? Relay stuck? Capacitor swollen? I'd love to understand the cause of the delay.

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[HowardG]

I did a little exploratory surgery and found that these was very little that could ascertain. I assume that what you mean by "control board" is the control in the photograph below. The replacement is described on the CafeParts website as "Level Controller 120V 50 / 60hz." See it here:  Expobar Level Controller 120V 50 / 60hz - 60100106 | CafeParts.com  Short of removing and disassembling the control box, I don't think I can show any relays or capacitors.

But I'm not even sure this is the right part because as you can see from the picture below the control installed in my machine has eight connectors in use, while the control at CafeParts shows seven connectors to be used. Also, the CafeParts device is labeled as "Gicar" while the below device has no name at all. And even if this is the correct replacement part, I'm not sure it would solve the issue.

What do you think?

[Rob K]

I replaced that controller when my B-II steam boiler would not refill after the machine warmed up.  When I looked at the board inside the box, the only thing that was obvious was there was a dark spot on one of the relays.  WLL did not think that it could be the problem but everything else in the circuit tested OK.  Bad relays can do lots of things like delayed open/close cycles.

[HowardG]

To Rob K, I just want to be certain here: 1) your problem was that the steam boiler would not refill after the machine warmed up, and 2) your replacement of the controller solved this problem. Is this correct?

My and Dunja's problem is different. The pump delays in starting after lifting the brew lever, but there has been no problem with the steam boiler refilling.

Is my understanding correct?

[Eric Christoffersen]

Yes The control board is behind that black plastic cover.

The machine  has a priority to keep boiler full, so boiler level sensor talks to control board and if low the board switches solenoid valve to fill and it runs the pump. No matter what you want the brew fill is the boss because heating an empty tank will destroy the heating element.

Control board has electromechanical relays and they go bad. Because it is on path of allowing brew to occur, it can prevent or delay brew.  If you remove the control board remember which wires go where. The board slides right out of the plastic, inspect board for burns and swollen capacitors. Test the capacitors.

When I had a control board problem I contacted ‘boyt enterprises’ and he repaired it, a new capacitor  for the ac to dc rectifier and a new relay to control brew/fill. This stuff isn’t magic.

Another thing though… the brew switch that the brew lever/cam talks to… it’s a press button thing. Mine went out long ago and in a similar way with trouble starting the brew.. I got a new brew switch and all was well and I disassembled the old one, it was utterly manked inside. Take off brew lever and start brew by pushing the brew switch button underneath. It’s action should be smooth. If it doesn’t feel great Take out that brew switch and test it’s action and behavior with a multimeter. It should depress smoothly, mine was jammed up inside with its bent up guts and was hard to depress..

[David Bengtsson]

I had the same problem with the delay as described in the first email in this thread. I'm pretty sure the problem is the relay inside the electronic box, but I ended up replacing the complete box. Solved my problem. (It is a bit tricky without the correct tools and knowledge to remove just the relay from the board)

 

 /David

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[Ira]

Hello David,

Monday, July 31, 2023, 9:49:00 AM, you wrote:

I had the same problem with the delay as described in the first email in this thread. I'm pretty sure the problem is the relay inside the electronic box, but I ended up replacing the complete box. Solved my problem. (It is a bit tricky without the correct tools and knowledge to remove just the relay from the board)

f you want to send the controller and pay for return shipping, probably $13 or so, I'll be happy to remove the relay, a task I have the proper tools to accomplish. If you supply a replacement relay I'll be happy to install it.

-- Ira

[David Bengtsson]

Well, I tried to replace the relay, but the original board is kind of
broken now...ooops
The espresso machine is in Austria working just fine with the new
electronic box, and I am in Sweden during the summer, so I don't see
any reason to to more repairs right now.

Thank you for the support :)

> f you want to send the controller and pay for return shipping, probably $13 or so, I'll be happy to remove the relay, a task I have the proper tools to accomplish. If you supply a replacement relay I'll be happy to install it.
>
>
> -- Ira
>

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[Ira]

Hello David,

Monday, July 31, 2023, 11:44:06 AM, you wrote:

> Well, I tried to replace the relay, but the original board is kind of
> broken now...ooops
> The espresso machine is in Austria working just fine with the new
> electronic box, and I am in Sweden during the summer, so I don't see
> any reason to to more repairs right now.

> Thank you for the support :)

Oh, shipping to California and back is probably not reasonable.

-- Ira

[Eric Christoffersen]

sometimes a local cell phone repair place has the gear and skills to replace the soldered components on the control board.