Access to Toilet Base Bolts?

[pgsealevel]

I have a 1991 Beneteau Moorings 38, which is the same hull as a First 38 and First 38s5.   

In the aft head, the Jabsco toilet base has cracked, it leaks and needs to be replaced.   It is mounted with 4 bolts to the fiberglass liner of the head/shower compartment.   The top of the bolts are, of course, easily accessed.   But there is no access to the nuts that hold the bolts in.  I've dug through the adjoining aft locker and the engine compartment and there are bulkheads blocking access.  I checked with the dealer....they don't know and don't have drawings.  Does anyone know how to access the 4 nuts that secure the base to the liner?    Where would I drill an access port (say a 4 inch hole) and not compromise a bulkhead? 

Thanks,

Paul G

S/V BAMBOO

[Tony Peto]

I apologize if this is a silly question, but are you sure they're machine screws? On my First 375, they are lag bolts that go into the glass.

-Tony

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[pgsealevel]

Fair question.
I hesitated to pull one out because the toilet would be unstable afterwards. They may be lag screws, I just didn’t expect that for a heavily stressed application in fiberglass. I’ll pull one and see.

[Tim C]

Paul,
These are most definitely lag bolts.  I've replaced two heads on Beneteaus (one in a 1998 281 and one in a 2006 343) both were lag bolts. 

My guess is, you may find some marine plywood under the fiberglass - it is advisable to put some sealant in the holes and around the base (silicone is fine imho) to help prevent moisture from getting to the wood.  Also - be sure to use stainless (maybe new ones)

Hardest part of the job is dealing with residual waste.  Really good to pump a few gallons of clean water thru or some antifreeze if cold near you.  I found that a $10 hand pump from Harbor Freight worked well to pump any stuff out of the hose and allowed me to snake past the joker and pump out too. Much less waste to come into the boat.

Good luck,
Tim

[Mark J Wilme]

I have certainly found lag screws in our 381. To be fair usually into heavy fiberglass layup (I forget where). I do recall that when I put them back I coated them with some adhesive of some type to ensure a good grip as those coarse threads can be somewhat destructive to the material they are screwed into

On Tue, Jan 21, 2020 at 12:42 AM pgsealevel <paul...@gmail.com> wrote:

Fair question. 
I hesitated to pull one out because the toilet would be unstable afterwards.  They may be lag screws, I just didn’t expect that for a heavily stressed application in fiberglass.  I’ll pull one and see. 

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[Ben Campbell]

Hi Paul,

Would you be willing to send a link or other details about that hand pump? 

Do I understand you were able to snake past the joker with the head still installed? I’d love to be able to clear stuff out of the hose when it’s going to be sitting for a while.

Thanks!

Ben.

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[Tim C]

On Tuesday, January 21, 2020 at 12:10:56 PM UTC-5, DancingDays wrote:

Hi Paul,

Would you be willing to send a link or other details about that hand pump? 

Do I understand you were able to snake past the joker with the head still installed? I’d love to be able to clear stuff out of the hose when it’s going to be sitting for a while.

Thanks!

Ben.

On Jan 21, 2020, at 5:48 AM, Tim C <tim....@goodoldsailor.com> wrote:

Paul,
These are most definitely lag bolts.  I've replaced two heads on Beneteaus (one in a 1998 281 and one in a 2006 343) both were lag bolts. 

My guess is, you may find some marine plywood under the fiberglass - it is advisable to put some sealant in the holes and around the base (silicone is fine imho) to help prevent moisture from getting to the wood.  Also - be sure to use stainless (maybe new ones)

Hardest part of the job is dealing with residual waste.  Really good to pump a few gallons of clean water thru or some antifreeze if cold near you.  I found that a $10 hand pump from Harbor Freight worked well to pump any stuff out of the hose and allowed me to snake past the joker and pump out too. Much less waste to come into the boat.

Good luck,
Tim

On Monday, January 20, 2020 at 11:38:11 PM UTC-5, pgsealevel wrote:

I have a 1991 Beneteau Moorings 38, which is the same hull as a First 38 and First 38s5.   

In the aft head, the Jabsco toilet base has cracked, it leaks and needs to be replaced.   It is mounted with 4 bolts to the fiberglass liner of the head/shower compartment.   The top of the bolts are, of course, easily accessed.   But there is no access to the nuts that hold the bolts in.  I've dug through the adjoining aft locker and the engine compartment and there are bulkheads blocking access.  I checked with the dealer....they don't know and don't have drawings.  Does anyone know how to access the 4 nuts that secure the base to the liner?    Where would I drill an access port (say a 4 inch hole) and not compromise a bulkhead? 

Thanks,

Paul G

S/V BAMBOO

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[Tim C]

Ben,
Here's a photo of the pump I used.  You can buy at Lowes too in addition to Harbor Freight.  Yes, you can snake thru the joker - done many times w/o issue:



https://www.lowes.com/pd/Hopkins-Siphon-Pump/1000731538?cm_mmc=shp-_-c-_-prd-_-sol-_-google-_-lia-_-154-_-lubricants-_-1000731538-_-0&store_code=692&placeholder=null&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI3Oy0ipKW5wIVw56zCh01tAOHEAQYBCABEgKlEvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

On Tuesday, January 21, 2020 at 12:10:56 PM UTC-5, DancingDays wrote:

Hi Paul,

Would you be willing to send a link or other details about that hand pump? 

Do I understand you were able to snake past the joker with the head still installed? I’d love to be able to clear stuff out of the hose when it’s going to be sitting for a while.

Thanks!

Ben.

On Jan 21, 2020, at 5:48 AM, Tim C <tim....@goodoldsailor.com> wrote:

Paul,
These are most definitely lag bolts.  I've replaced two heads on Beneteaus (one in a 1998 281 and one in a 2006 343) both were lag bolts. 

My guess is, you may find some marine plywood under the fiberglass - it is advisable to put some sealant in the holes and around the base (silicone is fine imho) to help prevent moisture from getting to the wood.  Also - be sure to use stainless (maybe new ones)

Hardest part of the job is dealing with residual waste.  Really good to pump a few gallons of clean water thru or some antifreeze if cold near you.  I found that a $10 hand pump from Harbor Freight worked well to pump any stuff out of the hose and allowed me to snake past the joker and pump out too. Much less waste to come into the boat.

Good luck,
Tim

On Monday, January 20, 2020 at 11:38:11 PM UTC-5, pgsealevel wrote:

I have a 1991 Beneteau Moorings 38, which is the same hull as a First 38 and First 38s5.   

In the aft head, the Jabsco toilet base has cracked, it leaks and needs to be replaced.   It is mounted with 4 bolts to the fiberglass liner of the head/shower compartment.   The top of the bolts are, of course, easily accessed.   But there is no access to the nuts that hold the bolts in.  I've dug through the adjoining aft locker and the engine compartment and there are bulkheads blocking access.  I checked with the dealer....they don't know and don't have drawings.  Does anyone know how to access the 4 nuts that secure the base to the liner?    Where would I drill an access port (say a 4 inch hole) and not compromise a bulkhead? 

Thanks,

Paul G

S/V BAMBOO

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[pgsealevel]

Tim, you are right, I pulled a bolt and it is a lag bolt. Any idea of the specs for torquing the base to the deck? The plastic base will crack, I am sure, with too much.

[Mark J Wilme]

I was always taught that the length of a wrench was proportionate to the amount of torque needed for the average fastener.  given it's not an exact substrate you are screwing into I would just tighten it firmly and then check again in a few weeks

Just my2c

  

On Fri, Jan 31, 2020 at 8:03 AM pgsealevel <paul...@gmail.com> wrote:

Tim, you are right, I pulled a bolt and it is a lag bolt.  Any idea of the specs for torquing the base to the deck?  The plastic base will crack, I am sure, with too much. 

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[Tim C]

Glad it worked out !  Make sure you use stainless when you re-install and put some sealant in the holes.

I'd be surprised if there was a torque spec for this.  I'd suggest no more than 1/4 turn of the bolt once the bolt head/washer make contact with the head base.  Definitely don't give it the gorilla tightening or the base will crack.

I've not yet lost a head while heeling using this method !