GPS signal

[Ken Gray]

HI Folks, i am trying to set up the Avare program on my Android tablet, it will not give me a GPS signal so i purchased a Dongle global sat receiver ND-105-C. i also downloaded a PL-2303 App to work with the unit.

It shows that it is connected to the receiver but does not show up working in navigation mode in Avare. So the Avare program will  not communicate with the receiver. The Avare program will not use the internal tablet 

GPS as well. Does anyone have any ideas and if i have the wrong receiver what will work in this unit? I am really confused about this issue, also is there another avation program that will work with this dongle? Looking for help, Please

Ken

[t v]

Hi Ken.

Se posts below for more info https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/apps4av-forum/WSbcYGo67Jg

https://apps4av.com/avare-overview/avare-%E2%80%A2-addon-apps/

If you cannot find the answer and still need help post here. TV

[Roger R]

Which tablet? Does it in fact have an internal gps? Google maps or other similar programs work?

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[John W SBA]

> Google maps or other similar programs work?

Keep in mind that gMaps and most other apps use cell tower
"triangulation" for position information. Avare, because it's intended
for aviation, relies solely on GPS data. So testing GPS with gMaps or
most other user apps will NOT confirm GPS operation. There are GPS
utility apps that will report actual GPS performance, but Avare users
already have the built-in Tools tab. When we tap on that tab, the Tools
screen depicts satellites first in red when detected and then in green
when they're providing usable location data.

For longer battery charge time on my S7 phone (about a week of light
use), I turn on Airplane Mode at night and leave both data and GPS off
during the day, turning them on only when needed.

As for automotive trips with gMaps in particular, I use that app with
GPS only. That is, rather than "Agree" to their second "more accurate"
prompt that uses cell towers, I "Agree" only to the first prompt for
GPS. I then find that gMaps often takes a long time to acquire
location, so I often briefly launch Avare and go to the Tools tab to see
when it acquires GPS location. Usually that takes only a few seconds.
Then I close Avare and go back to gMaps where it now has my location,
perhaps because Google wants me to turn on all their Permissions? :)

Happy Flying -j

[Dan]

It would be interesting to know if the Wi-Fi only versions of the tablets have the cellular antennas in them for this triangulation position. I have a Samsung S2-8" Wi-Fi only SM-T713 and have had problems for the past couple of years with losing GPS signal for the rest of the trip if I make a stop somewhere and turn the screen off while refueling etc. Google maps and my GPS status apps will still work while Avare does not. I usually just plan to continue the trip using my cell phone.

Dan

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[John W SBA]

> Wi-Fi only versions of the tablets have the cellular antennas

They'd also need to have at least the cell receiver components, or the
data would have no way of reaching the tablet. Seems very unlikely,
since it would need to send some cell data too, in order for the tablet
to get the location data.

More likely gMaps uses another method in addition to cell triangulation.
I'd forgotten that gMaps can use WiFi node signals for triangulation,
because they've plotted all their known WiFi node locations. They
presumably get that data at least in part using plots from their Street
Maps cars. There was a fuss some years ago about their SM cars
collecting WiFi data while driving, and it wouldn't surprise me if
they've used many other methods of collecting any and all data they can.
WiFi transmitter location would be just a tiny part of that.

> losing GPS signal for the rest of the trip if I make a stop

Interesting. If you figure out a fix, please post a followup because
many of us occasionally encounter loss of internal GPS in flight.

[Brad Walker]

the single best thing you can do is install GPStest..  https://github.com/barbeau/gpstest

It's what I use as  a reference in my professional life..

If GPStest can't find GPS, you have a fundamental problem with your tablet.

If it works with GPStest, then most likely a problem with Avare..

-brad w.

[John W SBA]

> the single best thing you can do is install GPStest..

Maybe it's paranoia, but I always wonder about Permissions. Are all of
these needed just to see GPS status?
---
This app has access to:
Photos/Media/Files
read the contents of your USB storage
modify or delete the contents of your USB storage

Storage
read the contents of your USB storage
modify or delete the contents of your USB storage

Location
approximate location (network-based)
precise location (GPS and network-based)
access extra location provider commands

Other
view network connections
full network access
read Google service configuration

[Brad Walker]

You, and others, should be cautious about Android Permissions..

The only thing, GPStest needs is the Location permission enabled. I believe all the other permissions you are seeing is due to your Android tablet specific implementation.

The nice thing about GPStest is I've looked at the source pretty extensively and it does NOT need anything other than Location.

A screen shot is attached from my Google Pixel phone..

-brad w.

[t v]

Hi Brad and everyone.

In addition I would suggest that you Not use anything else other than Avare. Go to tools and see how many green dots circles you have, if none or less than 2 show up you are having a GPS issue, it does not matter how many other apps tell you anything else.

Make sure GPS is enabled in your Device an in Avare. TV

[Roger R]

Agreed, so many apps want all this unnecessary stuff which is why I keep my apps to the absolute min. I'm sure most know this but if you want an app and it requires lots of unnecessary permissions you can still download it then immediately go to settings/apps/click on that app/then find permissions for that app, then turn off all the permissions you do not want.

Also agreed that the tools button showing sats, or not, is the pertinent info.

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[Dan]

I use a couple of similar apps but have also just installed the one you suggested to give it a try as well. It has always shown a GPS signal when I am having problems in Avare. I also have an app called GPS reset which supposedly reboots the GPS. This has worked for me once or twice to get Avare back connected but not every time. I have suspected heat in the past since I have a bubble canopy but then the GPS checking apps would still work.

 

When I get my plane flying again I will play with it some more to see if I can figure it out.

 

Dan L.

 

From: apps4a...@googlegroups.com [mailto:apps4a...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Brad Walker
Sent: Tuesday, July 23, 2019 2:07 PM
To: Ken Gray <guruk...@gmail.com>
Cc: Apps4Av Forum <apps4a...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: [Apps4Av] GPS signal

 

the single best thing you can do is install GPStest..  https://github.com/barbeau/gpstest

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[Roger R]

A couple of months ago I experienced something similar. Tablet on Avare sat in bubble canopy acft for hrs on hot day. Lost gps function. Tried everything but did not know about the GPS app you mentioned. Nmrs attempts to restore the function including uninstall and reinstall of Avare made no diff. Final resolution was to do a factory reset of tablet. Copied photos, docs, downloads, music etc to Google drive first then did reset. Google, if you have synced things properly, knows your apps and will automatically restore them. With the factory reset Avare with properly working GPS started right up. And all apps were auto restored. So no loss no hassle. So if all else fails that is an option, it worked for me.....but as they...."your results may vary". Good luck.

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[John W SBA]

> use a couple of similar apps but have also just installed the one...

> It has always shown a GPS signal when I am having problems in Avare.

Could it be that the GPS utility apps themselves might be a problem? I
seem to recall reading a few years ago that such an app was taking over
GPS functionality from some apps. Things have changed in Android since
then, but so have the apps. Some utility apps in particular may try to
bypass Android, while Avare "plays by the rules." If a factory reset
fixes the problem, it could be an indication that something is
interfering with the normal functioning of the Android system on a given
device.

My own strategy is to have the absolute minimum number of "bloatware"
and 3rd party apps on the devices I use in flight. Ideally, it seems
wise for Avare to be the only thing running. Before flight, in Android
I use:
Task manager's Close All option.
Settings->Device Maint.->Optimize to close any background apps.
and Memory->Clean Now to free up available memory.

[Brad Walker]

I could see an "issue" happening around GPS signals.. The API interface used by Avare is deprecated and that means vendors might no longer fix bugs in the underlying HAL interface. I'm not saying this is a problem with Avare or your Android implementation. Just that I could see a potential problem there..

Which means, maybe I should volunteer to fix some of the GPS interface stuff? 8-)

-brad w.