'Mithya' in Upanishads

[Krishna kapoor]

Namaskar everyone

There is a very complex debate between Vaishnavas and Advaitins, where Vaishnavas have been saying that Jagat is Satya and nowhere in Upanishads it is written the Jagat is Mithya or unreal. It comes in Niralamba Upanishad 'Brahma Satyam Jagat MithyA' but this is not one of the Mukhya Upanishads.

Please kindly tell where is term 'Mithya' in the Mukhya Upanishads?

[sunil bhattacharjya]

Dear Shri Krishna kapoor,

I would suggest to those Vaishnavas, to read the chapter on Jnana in the Lord Krishna's "Uddhava Gita" or the 2nd chapter in Lord Krishna's "Original Bhagavad Gita of 745 verses", where the Lord says that the vyayaharika world is impermanent or like an illusion.

Sincerely,

Sunil KB

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[sunil bhattacharjya]

Dear friends,

Further, the Vishnanvas don't seem to know that the goal of the Advaitins is becoming Videhamukta. The advaitins believe in going beyond the cycle of birth and death, and for achieving such Moksha, without the body, Lord Ram advised Shri Hanumanji to read the 108 upanishads.

My 2 cents

Sunil KB

On Tue, May 16, 2023 at 9:21 AM Krishna kapoor <krishnak...@gmail.com> wrote:

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[Krishna kapoor]

Mr. Sunil ji

I cannot find the word Mithya in the Upanishads. Will you please help me and tell where is the word Mithya in the Upanishads?

Kind regards

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[sunil bhattacharjya]

Dear Krishna Kapoor,

There is nothing wrong in quoting "Brahma Satyam Jaganmithya" as one of the Upnishadic statements.

Niralamba Upanishad does have  the following:

तप इति च ब्रह्म सत्यं जगन्मिथ्येत्यपरोक्ष-ज्ञानाग्निना 
ब्रह्माद्यैश्वर्याशासिद्धसङ्कल्प-बीजसन्तापं तपः ।

Sincerely
skb

	
	
	
	


तप इति च ब्रह्म सत्यं जगन्मिथ्येत्यपरोक्ष-
ज्ञानाग्निना ब्रह्माद्यैश्वर्याशासिद्धसङ्कल्प-
बीजसन्तापं तपः ।

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[V Subrahmanian]

You can look at the many references in the Upanishads for equivalent words and expressions that unambiguously convey the idea of mithyatva.

The Chandogya 6th chapter says the world as a transformation of Brahman is not real. Mrittikeyyeva satyam..

Apaagat agneragnitvam

..

Mandukya too has such references like Brahman  is prapanchopasham.

Mayamaatram dvaitam Advaitam paramarthathah, etc.

There are many.

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[sreenivasa murthy]

Dear Sri Subramanian,

You Write :

“Mandukya too has such references like Brahman  is prapanchopasham”.

Mandukya also says : "sarvagaM hi Etad brahma ayamAtmA brahma"

Mantra 7-25-1 of Chandogya says : ahamEvEdagM sarvam || 

Mantra 7-25-2 of Chandogya says : AtmaivEdagaM sarvam ||

Hence AtmA is ptapaMcOpaSamaH and I am prapaMcOpaSamah||

Is the above conclusion a mere intellectual one or is it a fact of life HERE &NOW?

HOw can this be cognized as a fact of Life within oneself by oneself?

Based on your own anuBava I request you kindly to reveal this to me. Then only you quoting these Sruti mantras become fruitful to the reader.

With respectful pranams,

Sreenivasa Murthy.

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[Vikram Jagannathan]

Namaskaram Shri Sreenivasa Murthy ji,

I understand and appreciate your objective of calling out the fundamental tenet of Advaita - that it is only through anubhava. Advaita realization is neither a physical act nor mental dexterity nor intellectual sophistry. Ayam Atma Brahma is only aparokshanubhuti beyond space & time and thoughts & words.

However, I am running into a problem with your request and seeking your guidance to resolve. You requested "Based on your own anuBava I request you kindly to reveal this to me. Then only you quoting these Sruti mantras become fruitful to the reader."

Either: 1. Please describe how to best reveal my atman-brahman aparokshanubhuti in a manner understandable by you.
Or: 2. Kindly demonstrate or prove to me my lack of atman-brahman aparokshanubhuti, so that I can work towards this prior to quoting Sruti mantras.

It goes without saying that "I" and "my" here only refers to the functioning antahkarana illumined by atman-brahman and stands juxtaposed with "you" and "your".

with humble prostrations,
Vikram

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[sreenivasa murthy]

Dear Sri Vikram Jagannathan,

 Sruthi uses the following words :

      (1) Atmavit, mantravit || Chandogya

      (2) Srotriyam, brahmaniShTham.|| Mundaka

      (3) ananyaproktE gatratra nAsti || Katha .

      (4) upadEkShyanti tE jnAnam jnAninaH tattvadarSiBiH || BhagavadgIta

      (5) Mantra 4-4-8 of Bruhadarnyaka Upanishad states:

                     aNuH panthA vitataH purANO 

                     mAgM spRuShTO^nuvittaH mayyaiva||

(6)Sri Shankara , writes as an introduction to mantra 2-4

    of Kena Upanishad thus :

    EvaM acAryOktaH SiShyaH EkAntE upaviShTaH samAhitaH san

yathOtamAcAryENa Agamam arthatO vicArya, tarkataSca nirdhAryasvAnuBavaM kRutvA AcAryasakASamupagamyOvAca manyE ahamathEdAnIM viditaM brahmEti ||

(7) Mantra 6-8 of PrashnOpanishad reads thus :

tE tamarcayantastvaM hi naH pita yO asmAkamavidyayAH paraM pAraM tArayasIti ||

Now you must have realized in what spirit my posting has been written.

You draw your own tight conclusions.

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[Vikram Jagannathan]

Namaskaram Shri Sreenivasa Murthy ji,

Sruti, indeed, says so.

But your request was not for Sruti pramana; you had asked for anubhava pramana.

Repeating myself; you requested "Based on your own anuBava I request you kindly to reveal this to me. Then only you quoting these Sruti mantras become fruitful to the reader."

Either: 1. Please describe how to best reveal my atman-brahman aparokshanubhuti in a manner understandable by you.
Or: 2. Kindly demonstrate or prove to me my lack of atman-brahman aparokshanubhuti, so that I can work towards this prior to quoting Sruti mantras.

with humble prostrations,
Vikram

[sreenivasa murthy]

Dear Sri Vikram Jagannathan,

Sri Shankara uses the words "svasAkshikam ||", "svAnuBavagamyam||".

Sruti says "svayaMjyOtiH".

Sri Gaudapada says in Shloka 39 of chapter-2 of karikas thus:

tattvaM adhyAtmikaM dRuShTvA tattvaM dRuShtVAtu bAhyataH |

tattvIBUtadArAmastatvAdapracyutO BavEt ||

In Shloka 33 of Chapter Advaita PrakaraNa Sri Gaudapada reveals :

akalpakamajam jnAnam jnEyABinnaM pracakshatE |

brahma jnEyaM ajam nityaM ajEnAjaM vibudhyatE ||

One who quotes from texts to bring to the attention of the readers

must and should have realized within himself by himself what has been

revealed in the above teachings. He should have the guts and intellectual

honesty to declare thus :

     vEdAhamEtaM puruShaM mahAnta-

          ntamAdityavarNam tamasaH parastAt |

     tamEva viditvA atimRutyumEti

           nAnyaH panthA vidyatE ayanAya||SvEtASvara ; 3-8.

Sri J Krishnamurti in one of his writings he says:

            Do not utter even a single word which you yourself

            has not understood.

Atman, your true nature, is apramEyam as revealed in Bhagavadgita and

Bruhadaranyaka Upanishad.

Kindly study mantras 2-1-3&2-1-4 of Kathopanishad and

Mantra 2-4 of Kena Upanishad along with the Sri Shankara's commentaries

to these mantras.

Then the words what you have used become very clear to you.

I pray to the Indwelling Reality to bless you with that Vision.

With this I close.

With respectful pranams,

Sreenivasa Murthy.

or realized.

Mantra

[Vikram Jagannathan]

Namaskaram Shri Sreenivasa Murthy ji,

I respect your intent to close out this discussion. Not intending to prolong, sharing a couple of comments before closing out.

I appreciate your underlying intent to realize the Truth before a person advises others. I also really appreciate, and thank you, for quoting the wonderful Sruti and Bhashyam statements that best indicate the Truth.

However, I see that you have declined to answer either of my specific questions for twice now. Hence please allow me to share my opinion; requesting your kind attention & understanding.

1. A jnani cannot 'reveal' their realization (aparokshanubhuti) in a manner 'understandable' by others. Hence kindly refrain from requesting others to "reveal their aparokshanubhuti anubhava to you". No amount of guts / intellectual honesty can ably demonstrate this to you.

2. You cannot prove that a person has not yet realized (by himself within himself aparokshanubhuti of Atman-Brahman). Hence kindly refrain from sharing directive references such as Shri J K ji's or giving presumptive advices. 

It again goes without saying that "I" and "my" here only refers to the functioning antahkarana illumined by atman-brahman and stands juxtaposed with "you" and "your". Respectfully seeking your forgiveness for any transgression.

Harih Aum! Aum Tat Sat!

with humble prostrations,

Vikram