Seacocks

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William Ennis

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Mar 27, 2022, 10:22:51 PM3/27/22
to Passport Owners
Here I am, asking for more information. My boat is too far away to do my own research, so I'll ask you all. Our boat is a 1984 P40, hull 78.

Several of my seacocks are frozen open. We grease them religiously each season, but these two have resisted our efforts. These are the two seacocks that control the cockpit drains in the forward end of the cockpit. The seacocks themselves are in the forward end of the “man cave” (I’m in there so much that’s what my wife calls it).

I’ve only replaced one seacock in the boat, the one for the forward head, but I was too inexperienced to take photos of it after I pounded it out of the hull. Are the seacocks ball or taper? Can they be rebuilt or simply replaced? Is there any useful procedure for getting the valve to move? The boat is simply too old for the seacocks to have teflon bushings, so heat might be useful. Perhaps some strong vinegar could remove the salt deposits.

Seems a pedestrian question, but I do appreciate your experience.

Bill

There is no way to happiness. Happiness is the way. -Buddha

Jeremy Dinsel

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Mar 28, 2022, 12:33:29 PM3/28/22
to Passport Owners
Hi William. I've been doing some similar work as what you describe. On our Passport 40, we call the area under the cockpit the "Rabbit Hole" as once you enter it, you tend to find more things that you want to look into than you initially thought before you entered it.

Anyway, I posted here last week about some fittings on the hoses. You can find that thread here https://groups.google.com/g/PassportOwners/c/ETCrHeqelL8

Anyway, when we were last on the hard, we had professionals in Anacortes Washington replace all of the sea cocks that did not function. This was and continues to be a relief to me as I know more about those and have a little more trust with them than I do the ones that were left in place. Case point: while replacing the cockpit scupper hoses, I found that one of the ball valves did not properly seal. To my surprise, the hose IDs in this short length of hose had three different sizes and not two. It's tapered from the cabin sole down to the tee (adjoining the lazarette drain) and stepped down once more at the thru-hull. There was a time when a trickle of water was running through the boat as I frantically tried to fit a hose to the fitting in order to get a good seal. I ended up abandoning this approach minutes later by inserting a wooden plug into the fitting. On the positive side, we had a successful bilge pump test that day! 

One reason why I mention the store above is that I know these valves are below the water line by about 11" / 27 cm. If you were to attempt pouring vinegar into them, it would need to displace the water from outside your boat. Would this work or would this have no effect? I am not certain of the properties of vinegar vs fresh or salt water. It will certainly be diluted!

While I do not have an answer for some of your questions, I do have an interest in your thread. Thanks for posting. I am looking forward to hearing what others offer as suggestions.

Best regards,
Jeremy
S/V Whale Shadow, Passport 40

Ross Hoag

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Mar 28, 2022, 12:52:19 PM3/28/22
to Passport Owners
I have had two of my seacocks get stuck at different points in time. If they are good quality bronze seacocks I would try to unstick them before replacing. I took a heat gun to mine, slowly heating them up and tapping a vise grip clamped on the output shaft (remove the installed handle). I was amazed how easily they came free at which point I exercised them over and over until they were smooth and functioning properly. I now exercise them all every few months if not more often and have not had any issues since. If you don't have a proper heat gun you can try a hairdryer or if you are adventuresome a torch from afar but be carful! If you were planning to remove and replace anyway what do you have to lose. 

From what I understand, the expansion of the outside shell compared to the ball which is at ambient to begin with can break the mechanical bond between them. It took a few attempts with progressively more aggressive tapping but then it just popped free. 

Regards,

Ross

On Sunday, March 27, 2022 at 7:22:51 PM UTC-7 william Ennis wrote:

Marty McOmber

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Mar 28, 2022, 12:52:26 PM3/28/22
to Jeremy Dinsel, Passport Owners
We've not replaced all of our thru-hulls and seacocks on our 1984 Passport 40. In the latest round of replacements, we had three in the head, three in the main cabin next to the engine, and one under the gally for the sink. All were original. Not sure of the brand that Passport used, but it is definitely not one that is still available.Also, they did not have threaded holes that could accommodate a zerk fitting to properly grease the seacocks. I felt very comfortable in the decision to replace all of them, along with the thruhulls.  

In addition to the questionable remaining lifespan of our original seacocks, one of the main reasons for completing the replacement was to also change out the wood backing plates. Wood is no longer considered a suitable material for seacock backing plates. The reason is that a small leak around the thruhull or seacock could rot the wood. Eventually the plate will crack, split and then you might have a larger problems on your hands. In our case, all of the thruhull backing plates were sound and we found only a few signs of nascent wood damage.

We used Groco, including their new backing plate system. I recommend them very highly. Removal, clean up, prep and installation were all fairly straightforward and easily within the skill set of most sailors. You will need two people for the installation portion. Marine How To has a great article on install thruhulls and seacocks, and its worth reading (Replacing Thru-Hulls and Seacocks - Marine How To)  The new Groco seacocks are easy to grease from inside the boat and can be done while you are in the water. 

Hope that is helpful. 

 

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Marty McOmber

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Mar 28, 2022, 12:54:19 PM3/28/22
to Jeremy Dinsel, Passport Owners
Typo in the first sentence of my post. Should have read "We have now replaced" not "we have not replaced."  :)

Kenyon Stewart

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Mar 28, 2022, 1:00:41 PM3/28/22
to Marty McOmber, Jeremy Dinsel, Passport Owners
The originals were Grand Deer brand.  A couple of ours froze and we had the handle break off of one of them.  At some point when our generator and watermaker were put in, they used one that was poorer quality than the originals.  When I replaced them all with Groco, I gave that one a decent kick and the thru-hull sheared right off. I used the Groco backing plates with threaded inserts and epoxied them in place.  In my opinion, all of the originals are well past their replacement date.

Kenyon Stewart

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/PassportOwners/CAAMupimyK8YijTbYhSdocYgjVVw4AU%3DtoangjLUaoesRY2-%3Drw%40mail.gmail.com.

Ernie Reuter

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Mar 28, 2022, 2:23:48 PM3/28/22
to Marty McOmber, Jeremy Dinsel, Passport Owners
We also followed Marine How To link on how to replace thru hulls when we completed ours in 2010 on Iemanja…..1984 hull 66. Great success with their recommendations for parts and process.
Ernie

Jeff and Jane Woodward

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Mar 28, 2022, 4:54:05 PM3/28/22
to William Ennis, Passport Owners
Hey Bill,

Yes, the seacocks in the lazarette always seem to get stiff.  I try to exercise them as often as possible.  Some penetrating oil squirted at the stem helps free them.  When the boat is on the hard, I exercise the valves while a helper on the outside of the boat smears some grease on the ball.  When the valve is out of the boat soaking for a few days in a pail of soapy water helps un-freeze a stuck valve.  I've never tried vinegar, but it seems like a possibility.  All the valves on Adagio are ball valves.  No tapers.  But as you know all our P-40's are semi-custom, so there are lots of differences in individual boats in the fleet.

I hope this helps.  Good luck.

Jeff
Adagio, P-40 #109, 1986
Portland, OR/San Carlos, MX
From: passpor...@googlegroups.com <passpor...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of William Ennis <benn...@gmail.com>
Sent: Sunday, March 27, 2022 7:22 PM
To: Passport Owners <Passpor...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: [Passport] Seacocks
 

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