Cockpit deck scuppers and subsequent hoses

[Jeremy Dinsel]

Hi all! We started a project of replacing the hoses that drain from the cockpit sole to the thru-hulls under the stairs. The hoses were starting to crack, so it had become critical to replace them before they failed! 

I measured the hose barb under the cockpit sole. It measures at 2". Below this is a tee with a 3/4" connection, but the top and bottom of the tee are 1 3/4". I also found that the barb on the thru-hull is 1 3/4". 

Somehow, the existing hoses are all 2" ID. I think that a massive amount of sealant may have been used to "fit" the larger 2" ID onto the smaller parts. A new and proper hose for below the water line use binds when squeezed onto a smaller fitting. Even 1/4" inch is enough to leave gaps in the system. It also leaves a bubble inside the hose where water may collect on the outside of the barb. Overtime, this may lead to corrosion. 

I'm wondering if anyone else has experienced this same problem. Or, perhaps some of you may experience this problem in the future. Instead of swapping out the 2" cockpit sole drain, I am trying to find a 2" to 1 3/4" male to male hose barb to step down the size of the hose near the cockpit sole. 

If you have any vendors that you know you can source this part from, I'd like to hear from you. I have not been able to find one of this size and may have to have it custom fabricated.

-j

[rcy...@optonline.net]

You might be able to accomplish what you seek to do by cobbling together several fittings on www.mcmaster.com and/or https://www.jamestowndistributors.com/product/product-detail/647

 

I did not see a simple 2”barb to 1.75” barb however.

 

Regards,

Bob

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[Chris Labatt-Simon]

If you have a friend with Fusion 360, a 3d printer and nylon or CF blend filament, or maybe even ABS filament, they could probably create one for you. I'm waiting for my printer to show up so I can make some other fittings myself.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/PassportOwners/!%26!AAAAAAAAAAAuAAAAAAAAAEQyxutKk0VNmrPRS1YQyCABAMO2jhD3dRHOtM0AqgC7tuYAAAAAAA4AABAAAAD3j9EyzgwdSL/z6JRy58JyAQAAAAA%3D%40optonline.net.

[Kyle Lobisser]

I just had to replace one of my scupper hoses due to the same cracking. If it's not a crazy bend, below-waterline rated PVC vacuum hose (often use for bilge, wet locker, etc) is an alternative to the fuel hoses. It does not bend as easily though.

I would not recommend 3D printed parts for below-waterline adapters/fittings. Nylon is hydroscopic and has lower strength when wet. 3D printing produces anisotropic material properties (weaker in the Z direction) so I just wouldn't risk it. I am a mechanical engineer with CAD and a MarkForged Mark Two, and love it for boat projects. But I would not feel comfortable using my parts below waterline. Just not worth the risk.

If I were you I would change the drain fittings so that they match the thru-hull diameters and have minimal adapters/etc. Just get the right hose and right deck hardware. You'll waste more time trying to find adapters than it's worth. My $0.02.

[Jeremy Dinsel]

One last addition to this thread. Since I have the part out, I figured I would share what happened to the T in the cockpit drain system I’ve described. This joins the cockpit drain with a lazaret drain directly below the 2” cockpit drain. It’s a 1 3/4” tube with a 3/4” tee. As I had mentioned earlier, the hose that was clamped onto this was 2” ID which meant that there was a potential for a gap and this gap allowed fresh water to collect inside the hose against the stainless steel. This allowed the metal to corrode over time. 

The first photo shows the residual evidence of the sealing compound that was used to fill the gaps in the over sized hose. The second photo is a cleaned up version of the part. According to the machine shop, the end with the corrosion is “toast” and cannot be salvaged. 

[Jeremy Dinsel]

Thanks for the suggestions!

I had a plan drawn up for what I’ll call the scupper reducer part. A machine shop quoted about $450 to mill it using various metals, so I think I’ll switch to using an MDS-Filled cast nylon tube (available at McMaster-Carr for about $40). I’ll put this tube on my lathe and mill it to match the plans.

 

[Marty McOmber]

Have you considered replacing the thruhull and seacock so they are sized appropriately for the hose? I recently replaced the last 8 of the original seacocks on our 1984 Passport 40. Using Groco parts ( and their nifty new backing plates) it was really straightforward.  Also the original ones are pretty crappy compared to Groco.  This is assuming you're are on the hard. If not, disregard.  

On Fri, Mar 11, 2022 at 9:33 AM Jeremy Dinsel <jeremy...@gmail.com> wrote:

Thanks for the suggestions!

I had a plan drawn up for what I’ll call the scupper reducer part. A machine shop quoted about $450 to mill it using various metals, so I think I’ll switch to using an MDS-Filled cast nylon tube (available at McMaster-Carr for about $40). I’ll put this tube on my lathe and mill it to match the plans.

 

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[jhene...@yahoo.com]

Jeremy,

I'm on board my P40 right now and checked my hoses, both of which I have replaced (the starboard, last summer, and the port a while before that).  Both of my hoses are 1 3/4" and thee fit very nicely on the cockpit scuppers, which, if I remember correctly are simply threaded (not barbed, on mine) ends of the scupper castings.

I replaced both of the seacocks with Grocos when replacing the hoses.  So, the Groco seacocks on mine are sized at 1 3/4" to match the scupper sizes coming down from the cockpit.  My boat was built in 1987, so that may explain different sizes, or, you may want to check your scupper tails with some 1 3/4" just to make sure.

I also was very unhappy with the slow draining from the tiny 3/4" aft scuppers, so replaced both of those and ran them to their own new 1" Groco seacocks just under them.  Yes, that meant two new holes to drill, which is a definite heart in you throat trade off.  But now, the aft part of the cockpit never has standing water and I'm rid of that questionable starboard side T and all that hose running up the starboard side.  

On the port side, I also cut away the dual waterline outlet (3/4 cockpit scupper and cockpit hand bilge pump outlet) and patched that hole.  I will mount a monster manual Edson pump eventually with an outlet out through the stern.

If you want any more information on the path I took, let me know and I can supply more details and pictures.

Jim Henerberry

1987 P40, #123, Lottie B

[Jeff and Jane Woodward]

Hi All,

A trick we have successfully used to fit slightly oversized hoses to valve hose barbs is to make a few turns of SOS tape or Rescue Tape on the hose barb.  After wrapping the tape lube both the tape and the interior of the hose with liquid soap before sliding the hose over the taped hose barb.

Jeff

Adagio, P-40 #109, 1986

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From: passpor...@googlegroups.com <passpor...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Jeremy Dinsel <jeremy...@gmail.com>
Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2022 10:22 AM

To: Passport Owners <Passpor...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: [Passport] Cockpit deck scuppers and subsequent hoses

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