Re: [vt-dev] Mesh Potato Suggestion

[Song, Stephen]

Hi Sean,

On 13 January 2013 06:30, <se...@seanpsilverman.com> wrote:
> Nice work! I love Mesh Potato! I had been trying to come up with a way to
> utilize the landline that comes with my ISPs package for some time.

Thanks!

> I cannot help but make a suggestion for v2:
>
> Leave everything the same, except:
>
> -move WiFi antenna to external, connectorized omni
> -change internal antenna to GSM
> -add SIM slot/s to accept GSM card/s
>
> Above mods would allow for positioning of unit/s at far end of network for
> GSM data/voice connectivity. Perhaps other cellular standards that I'm less
> familiar with would also make sense to include.
>
> Then a more commonly available, directional, WiFi antenna could back-haul
> this resource into the mesh. Multiple units in a mesh could mean multiple
> GSM gateways, while retaining the landline option/s already present in your
> base design!

I totally agree with your ethos and rationale but we are thinking of a
slightly different approach to achieving it.

So, external connector for WiFi antenna, absolutely! Probably a
standard RP-SMA connector cached in the connector bay of the device.
Still kicking myself for not having recognised the importance of this
the first time round.

On the GSM side, I completely agree with the value of GSM and the
ability to integrate mobile (especially 3G/4G) connections to WiFi
networks. However, our thinking was more along the lines of having
the USB interface mounted internally within the weather proof housing
with room to accommodate most kinds of 3G/4G dongles. By taking the
dongle approach, we can pick from a wide range of dongles to suit
different regulatory regimes and/or technology choices by operators.

What do you think?

Cheers... Steve


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>



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[Tayeb Meftah]

Dongle is better

Envoyé de mon iPhone

[Michel Daggelinckx]

+1 for the dongle

Michel


On 01/13/2013 03:32 PM, Tayeb Meftah wrote:
> Dongle is better
>
> Envoy� de mon iPhone
>
> Le 13 janv. 2013 � 16:29, "Song, Stephen"<stephe...@gmail.com> a �crit :

[Wayne Abroue]

+1 for dongles as well, also the availability of USB can be utilized
fully opening a whole new dev mod world.


Wayne

On Sun, Jan 13, 2013 at 5:35 PM, Michel Daggelinckx
<daggelin...@gmail.com> wrote:
> +1 for the dongle
>
> Michel
>
>
>
> On 01/13/2013 03:32 PM, Tayeb Meftah wrote:
>>
>> Dongle is better
>>

>> Envoyé de mon iPhone
>>
>> Le 13 janv. 2013 à 16:29, "Song, Stephen"<stephe...@gmail.com> a écrit

[Tayeb Meftah]

I like Wayne


Envoyé de mon iPhone

[VT Scroll Keeper]

An "empty" wheaterproof housing would be great for adding hardware to
the MP.
just a housing with built-in (powered) usb 3 hub to make it a litle
"future proof".

this allows addition of dongles, flash drives, HD or SSD.

Michel

On 01/13/2013 03:55 PM, Wayne Abroue wrote:
> +1 for dongles as well, also the availability of USB can be utilized
> fully opening a whole new dev mod world.
>
>
> Wayne
>
>
>
>
> On Sun, Jan 13, 2013 at 5:35 PM, Michel Daggelinckx
> <daggelin...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> +1 for the dongle
>>
>> Michel
>>
>>
>>
>> On 01/13/2013 03:32 PM, Tayeb Meftah wrote:
>>> Dongle is better
>>>

>>> Envoy� de mon iPhone
>>>
>>> Le 13 janv. 2013 � 16:29, "Song, Stephen"<stephe...@gmail.com> a �crit

[Breno Jacinto]

Dear friends,

   I just came across this paper: http://www.meshdynamics.com/documents/mdthirdgenerationmesh.pdf

   I'm just starting to play with the MPs and I could clearly see that they share the same rado for the mesh backhaul (to use the above paper terminology) and the wifi clients. Thus, according to this paper, this is the worst solution and a better one (obvious enough) is to use two radios and separate the traffic. Is that too hard to make for the new MP?

    They mention a third generation Mesh network which sounds quite fancy - something like cognitive radios and automatic channel management, etc. What do you guys think?

     Sorry to ressurect this thread =)

best regards,

---> Breno Jacinto
---> Instituto Federal de Educação, Ciência e Tecnologia de Alagoas (IFAL)
-----> http://www.ifal.edu.br
--> Instituto Nacional do Conhecimento e da Inclusão Sócio-Digital
-----> http://www.iconis.org.br
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2013/1/13 VT Scroll Keeper <vtscrol...@gmail.com>

An "empty" wheaterproof housing would be great for adding hardware to the MP.
just a housing with built-in (powered) usb 3 hub to make it a litle "future proof".

this allows addition of dongles, flash drives, HD or SSD.

Michel

On 01/13/2013 03:55 PM, Wayne Abroue wrote:

+1 for dongles as well, also the availability of USB can be utilized
fully opening a whole new dev mod world.


Wayne




On Sun, Jan 13, 2013 at 5:35 PM, Michel Daggelinckx
<daggelin...@gmail.com>  wrote:

+1 for the dongle

Michel



On 01/13/2013 03:32 PM, Tayeb Meftah wrote:

Dongle is better

Envoyé de mon iPhone

Le 13 janv. 2013 à 16:29, "Song, Stephen"<stephen.song@gmail.com>   a écrit
:

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[Paul Gardner-Stephen]

You're quite right.  The challenge is what is affordable versus optimal.

However, something that may be of interest on this front is that we are finally able to make some interesting progress on using a 2nd long-range low-bit-rate radio to complement WiFi as part of the Serval Project and our Serval Mesh Helper device.  Once this is working, it would be possible to integrate this and the VT software stack so that the MP can make use of it, especially once the MP2 is out with its USB ports (which incidentally will be the easiest way to add a 2nd WiFi radio for backhaul as well).

To see a little of what we are upto on this front:

servalpaul.blogspot.com.au/2013/02/breaking-wifi-barrier-serval-mesh.html

Paul.

Le 13 janv. 2013 à 16:29, "Song, Stephen"<stephe...@gmail.com>   a écrit
:

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[T Gillett]

Something else to consider is the use of commodity dual radio devices such as the WDR4300 from TP Link which is available for under $100, and there are a few variants.

VT SECN firmware is available for these devices if you want to try them.

Regards
Terry

[Breno Jacinto]

Hello Paul,

   That's a good idea. A question about the Mesh Helper device: how do you intend to "wire" them into an existing hardware (a cell phone or maybe the Mesh potato) and make it software/firmware accessible / programmable?

    The USB port will really be handy =). 

regards,

---> Breno Jacinto
---> Instituto Federal de Educação, Ciência e Tecnologia de Alagoas (IFAL)
-----> http://www.ifal.edu.br
--> Instituto Nacional do Conhecimento e da Inclusão Sócio-Digital
-----> http://www.iconis.org.br
---> Life is Choice. You can choose to be a victim, or anything else you want to be. (Sócrates - Peaceful Warrior) <--

CAMPANHA ACABE COM O SPAM:
1. Proteja o meu endereço e o de seus amigos como estou protegendo o seu.
2. Ao enviar mensagens, use SEMPRE o "Cco" (cópia oculta) ou "Bcc" (blind carbon copy). Assim, TODOS os endereços estarão preservados.
3. E, claro, antes de encaminhar um e-mail, delete todas as informações que apareçam no corpo do e-mail e que possam ser usadas (SPAM) por SPAMMERS.

2013/2/6 Paul Gardner-Stephen <paul.gardn...@gmail.com>

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[Breno Jacinto]

Hello Terry,

    Thanks for the tip. I'll take look into these beauties.

regards. 

---> Breno Jacinto
---> Instituto Federal de Educação, Ciência e Tecnologia de Alagoas (IFAL)
-----> http://www.ifal.edu.br
--> Instituto Nacional do Conhecimento e da Inclusão Sócio-Digital
-----> http://www.iconis.org.br
---> Life is Choice. You can choose to be a victim, or anything else you want to be. (Sócrates - Peaceful Warrior) <--

CAMPANHA ACABE COM O SPAM:
1. Proteja o meu endereço e o de seus amigos como estou protegendo o seu.
2. Ao enviar mensagens, use SEMPRE o "Cco" (cópia oculta) ou "Bcc" (blind carbon copy). Assim, TODOS os endereços estarão preservados.
3. E, claro, antes de encaminhar um e-mail, delete todas as informações que apareçam no corpo do e-mail e que possam ser usadas (SPAM) por SPAMMERS.

2013/2/6 T Gillett <tgil...@gmail.com>

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[Song, Stephen]

On 6 February 2013 20:57, T Gillett <tgil...@gmail.com> wrote:

Something else to consider is the use of commodity dual radio devices such as the WDR4300 from TP Link which is available for under $100, and there are a few variants.

There is also the TL-WDR3500 mentioned by Nico which I believe is essentially the same device in a 2x2 MIMO configuration as opposed to the 3x3 configuration of the WDR4300.  Worth noting again AlterMundi's excellent video on how to hack PoE into a WDR3500 (http://archive.org/details/ModificandoRouterTp-linkParaPower-over-ethernetPoe )

This discussion, which is at the heart of low-cost WiFi access, begs the question as to what kind of a device the Mesh Potato is.  Although we originally thought of it as both CPE and infrastructure, I think increasingly it is more of a fringe device.  By fringe I do not mean just a CPE device (although it clearly is that too) but something more like the capillaries of a network body's blood supply facilitating microcirculation.  Too many hops are a killer for a single radio device but 2-3 hops, in my experience, do not substantially degrade the quality of a network for most purposes.   The combination of devices like the TP-Link options above with Mesh Potatoes still make the most compelling case for me for a low cost voice and data network.

From a strategic perspective, I feel a tension between the issues of usability and hackability.   The goal of the Mesh Potato, particularly the next generation, is to be both i.e. drop dead, out-of-the-box, easy-to-use but also maximally open to adaptation and hacking, while of course being cheap as dirt.  Easy peasy.  :-)

The only problem I see with the TP-Link devices is that they are not designed for unstable power environments.  Previous experience in network deployments at Fantsuam in Nigeria and Elektra's experience in Bangladesh point to this being an issue in outdoor deployments.  Any have any comments on this?

Cheers... Steve

 

VT SECN firmware is available for these devices if you want to try them.

Regards
Terry

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[Andrés Leopoldo Pacheco Sanfuentes]

Steve,

Any recommendations on BBB (Bueno-Bonito-Barato) "backbone devices" designed for "unstable power environments"? :-)

Best Regards | Cordiales Saludos | Grato,

Andrés L. Pacheco Sanfuentes
<al...@acm.org>
+1 (817) 271-9619

[Song, Stephen]

On 7 February 2013 10:41, Andrés Leopoldo Pacheco Sanfuentes <alps...@gmail.com> wrote:

Steve,

Any recommendations on BBB (Bueno-Bonito-Barato) "backbone devices" designed for "unstable power environments"? :-)

Ubiquiti are hard to beat from a price versus performance point of view.  I have heard the odd complaint from South African WISPs about their performance in the extreme heat of the Karoo desert but that is a bit of an outlier case.

TP-Link make one outdoor unit but it looks like a Nanostation II knock-off.

Beyond that prices go up with equipment from the likes of Ruckus, Redline, et al.   Anyone else have experiences to share on outdoor devices?   Nico, if you're there, I assume your modified WDR3500s are deployed outdoors.  What has your experience been so far?

Cheers... Steve

[DE 'Tad' Heckaman III]

The only problem I see with the TP-Link devices is that they are not designed for unstable power environments.  Previous experience in network deployments at Fantsuam in Nigeria and Elektra's experience in Bangladesh point to this being an issue in outdoor deployments.  Any have any comments on this?

On the MP-2 Outdoor model, there was discussion about having the injector supply a steady 24v output to the MP regardless of the input voltage... I Wonder if the same thing can be made but to support 12V devices as well, to allow the TPlinks to operate smoothly regardless of the input power. 

Tad Heckaman

[Paul Gardner-Stephen]

Hello,

On Thursday, February 7, 2013 12:51:23 PM UTC+10:30, Breno Jacinto wrote:

Hello Paul,

   That's a good idea. A question about the Mesh Helper device: how do you intend to "wire" them into an existing hardware (a cell phone or maybe the Mesh potato) and make it software/firmware accessible / programmable

At the simplest level, the Mesh Helper will just form part of the mesh, and automatically transport traffic* over the 915MHz link.

* Serval Mesh aware traffic that is.

 

    The USB port will really be handy =). 

Indeed, I am in the middle of using it to try to get a larger image on a WR703N now.  Currently trying to figure out how to tell openwrt to mount /overlay from USB ...

Paul.

[NicoEchániz]

On 02/07/2013 12:38 PM, Song, Stephen wrote:
> On 7 February 2013 10:41, Andr�s Leopoldo Pacheco Sanfuentes

> <alps...@gmail.com <mailto:alps...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> Steve,
>
> Any recommendations on BBB (Bueno-Bonito-Barato) "backbone devices"
> designed for "unstable power environments"? :-)
>
>
> Ubiquiti are hard to beat from a price versus performance point of view.
> I have heard the odd complaint from South African WISPs about their
> performance in the extreme heat of the Karoo desert but that is a bit of
> an outlier case.
>
> TP-Link make one outdoor unit but it looks like a Nanostation II knock-off.
>
> Beyond that prices go up with equipment from the likes of Ruckus,
> Redline, et al. Anyone else have experiences to share on outdoor
> devices? Nico, if you're there, I assume your modified WDR3500s are
> deployed outdoors. What has your experience been so far?

We are just starting to work with WDR3500/3600 but they are working
great. We have 2Km links with 60Mbit/s throughput on both 2.4Ghz and
5Ghz bands; we are using their factory antennas in the focus of recycled
grid parabolas.

We have also used a lot of TL-WR842ND with good results.

You just need to put the router in a casing (we use plastic ones) that's
suitable for your climate conditions. And maybe modify the router so it
can receive PoE; although this can also be done externally.
There's a video walk-through of this procedure on archive.org[0]
And a couple of guides on our blog [1][2].


Cheers,
Nico.


PS [OT?]: is anyone from Village Telco going to the WBM6 in Aalborg?


[0]
http://wap.archive.org/details/ModificandoRouterTp-linkParaPower-over-ethernetPoe
[1] http://blog.altermundi.net/article/diy-poe-enabled-100mbit-router/
[2] http://blog.altermundi.net/article/diy-poe-enabled-gigabit-router/

>
> Cheers... Steve
>
>
>
> Best Regards | Cordiales Saludos | Grato,
>

> Andr�s L. Pacheco Sanfuentes
> <al...@acm.org <mailto:al...@acm.org>>
> +1 (817) 271-9619 <tel:%2B1%20%28817%29%20271-9619>

>
>
> On Thu, Feb 7, 2013 at 8:37 AM, Song, Stephen
> <stephe...@gmail.com <mailto:stephe...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> On 6 February 2013 20:57, T Gillett <tgil...@gmail.com

> <mailto:village-telco-dev%2Bunsu...@googlegroups.com>.

> To post to this group, send email to
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> <mailto:village-...@googlegroups.com>.

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>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> Steve Song

> +1 902 529 0046 <tel:%2B1%20902%20529%200046>
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[T Gillett]

Hi Nicko
Many thanks for the feedback on the TP dual radio devices.
Regards
Terry

On Feb 9, 2013 7:56 AM, "NicoEchániz" <nicoe...@altermundi.net> wrote:

On 02/07/2013 12:38 PM, Song, Stephen wrote:

> On 7 February 2013 10:41, Andrés Leopoldo Pacheco Sanfuentes

>     Andrés L. Pacheco Sanfuentes

[T Gillett]

Hi Nicko

Many thanks for the feedback on the TP devices, particularly the dual radio devices.

It would be interesting to see some details of the mesh networks you have set up if you can share the info.

Regards
Terry

On Feb 9, 2013 7:56 AM, "NicoEchániz" <nicoe...@altermundi.net> wrote:

On 02/07/2013 12:38 PM, Song, Stephen wrote:

> On 7 February 2013 10:41, Andrés Leopoldo Pacheco Sanfuentes

>     Andrés L. Pacheco Sanfuentes

[Paul Gardner-Stephen]

An update on our activity on this, we now have some portable battery powered units assembled, and will do some range testing over the next few weeks, once we iron a couple of bugs on the 915MHz packet radio end of things:

http://servalpaul.blogspot.com.au/2013/02/building-serval-mesh-helper-device.html

What we already know is that the range is, as we expected, many times that of WiFi, even with poorly placed units.  For example, we can go through about 200m of urban dwellings with units one unit just sitting on a table or seat, and the other being carried out on the street.  WiFi in the same situation does about 20m. 

With better placed units, and clear line of sight, range is expected to be much, much better.

Paul.

[Glen Steedman]

What kind of throughput and latency are you getting over the serial link ? are you doing any sort of compression on the link ?

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