Disappearing lawn

[mathewja...@googlemail.com]

I was sent over here from uk.d-i-y in the hope that you might be able to help me...

In June 2014 I removed the patio and subbase from our back garden and replaced it with Rolawn's Medallion turf sat on approx 6-8 inches of their Blended Loam topsoil. Underneath this was the original heavy clay subsoil. Here's how things looked once laid:

http://www.newtonnet.co.uk/permanent/lawn-jun2014.jpg

A year later it was still going strong:

http://www.newtonnet.co.uk/permanent/lawn-aug2015.jpg

However, the past few months have been a different story and we now have this shocking sight:

http://www.newtonnet.co.uk/permanent/lawn1-feb2016.jpg
http://www.newtonnet.co.uk/permanent/lawn2-feb2016.jpg
http://www.newtonnet.co.uk/permanent/lawn3-feb2016.jpg
http://www.newtonnet.co.uk/permanent/lawn4-feb2016.jpg

Does anyone have any idea what has happened?

As you can hopefully make out, there do not appear to be any weeds or moss but rather the grass has seemingly disappeared. Note also that some areas (in the last photo) are still relatively lush in appearance.

We have always had some issues with earth worms and last year I was sweeping away casts regularly. Could this be it?

I am assuming that I will ultimately end up reseeding, or at least overseeding, however I am keen to ensure that I understand what has happened and how to prevent it reoccurring.

At the risk of biassing the diagnosis I thought I should share one thing with you: Last year I noticed that whenever I removed the odd weed that appeared in-between mowings I often found a 10-15mm long grub at the root of it. I thought nothing of this fact at the time however I have just been reading about leatherjackets and what damage they can do to a lawn. I can't help but wonder if that's what these grubs were and indeed if this is what has led to my loss? (And I really do mean loss - am feeling pretty sad at what has happened given how much effort it took for me to replace the previous completely-patio'd garden with a lawn!).

Any thoughts and/or suggestions?

Mathew

[Robert Harvey]

<mathewja...@googlemail.com> wrote:

> Any thoughts and/or suggestions?


You mention leatherjackets, which is plausible, though this would be a
major infestation. I suspect waterlogging. How wet did it get in winter?
Mine often has standing water & ends up with bare patches.

How long do you cut it? Some grasses don't like being scalped.

[Martin Brown]

On 05/02/2016 16:56, mathewja...@googlemail.com wrote:
> I was sent over here from uk.d-i-y in the hope that you might be able to help me...
>
> In June 2014 I removed the patio and subbase from our back garden and replaced
> it with Rolawn's Medallion turf sat on approx 6-8 inches of their
Blended Loam topsoil.
> Underneath this was the original heavy clay subsoil. Here's how
things looked once laid:
>
> http://www.newtonnet.co.uk/permanent/lawn-jun2014.jpg
>
> A year later it was still going strong:
>
> http://www.newtonnet.co.uk/permanent/lawn-aug2015.jpg

What treatments if any have you applied to it?

My lawn on heavy clay has not stopped growing this winter and needs
cutting but it is way too wet to even contemplate trying.

> However, the past few months have been a different story and we now have this shocking sight:
>
> http://www.newtonnet.co.uk/permanent/lawn1-feb2016.jpg
> http://www.newtonnet.co.uk/permanent/lawn2-feb2016.jpg
> http://www.newtonnet.co.uk/permanent/lawn3-feb2016.jpg
> http://www.newtonnet.co.uk/permanent/lawn4-feb2016.jpg
>
> Does anyone have any idea what has happened?

Waterlogging is a distinct possibility this wet year or over feeding or
perhaps inappropriate dosage of weedkiller. Where abouts are you?

> As you can hopefully make out, there do not appear to be any weeds
> or moss but rather the grass has seemingly disappeared.
> Note also that some areas (in the last photo) are still relatively
lush in appearance.

It takes a lot to kill grass. The lush bits look a bit too lush to me
which is why I wonder about over feeding with nitrogen.

> We have always had some issues with earth worms and last year I was
> sweeping away casts regularly. Could this be it?

Worms don't usually retaliate like that. Although worms coming to the
surface tends to suggest they were trying to avoid drowning in water
sodden soil so they might be a symptom rather than a cause.

Use a fencing spade to take a narrow spade deep chunk out of the worst
affected bit and see if it fills with water quickly or overnight.

If it is that the punching a few drainage holes through the clay pan
underneath will help a lot even though it is hard work.

>
> I am assuming that I will ultimately end up reseeding, or at least overseeding,
> however I am keen to ensure that I understand what has happened and
how to prevent it reoccurring.

How much wear does the lawn get? It might grow back of its own accord
when the weather improves - worth waiting before doing anything drastic.

Walking on soggy lawn will potentially make the grass die by suffocating
the roots. Football pitches end up that way near goal posts.

>
> At the risk of biassing the diagnosis I thought I should share one thing with you:
> Last year I noticed that whenever I removed the odd weed that
appeared in-between
> mowings I often found a 10-15mm long grub at the root of it. I
thought nothing of
> this fact at the time however I have just been reading about
leatherjackets and
> what damage they can do to a lawn. I can't help but wonder if that's
what these grubs
> were and indeed if this is what has led to my loss?
> (And I really do mean loss - am feeling pretty sad at what has
happened given how
> much effort it took for me to replace the previous completely-patio'd
garden with a lawn!).

Don't fret about it too much yet. Wait for spring to see if it comes
back from the remaining roots before you do anything irreversible. Grass
is quite good at recolonising ground when conditions are right.

Wait until spring and then give the bare bits a good rake and mix in
some sharp sand and peat followed by a grass seed with similar
characteristics to your turf or maybe a bit harder wearing.

Wilkos have a choice of two mixes sold by the kg.

>
> Any thoughts and/or suggestions?

I'm a bit surprised by how bad it went so quickly. Given that it
survived for the first year so well. What else might have happened in
the Autumn that provoked such a serious level of die back?

Do you have any intermediate pictures of its decline?

It almost looks like it has been overgrazed by rabbits or something. The
part near the step could well be caused by compaction. Parts of my lawn
that I have to walk on are unhappy this year.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

[Janet]

In article <59bdd6de-aa26-49e3...@googlegroups.com>,
mathewja...@googlemail.com says...

See http://luxurylawns.co.uk/2015/09/29/leather-jacket-warning/

Janet

[Mathew Newton]

Hi Martin,

Thank you for the comprehensive reply. I have responded inline:

On Friday, 5 February 2016 17:57:39 UTC, Martin Brown wrote:

> What treatments if any have you applied to it?

The only treatment I've ever applied has been a granulated spring/summer 'lawn feed' in June and August last year. I should admit, however, that in August I didn't water it in as we were expecting rain... which didn't occur. A few days later I noticed quite a few *very* yellow patches (tennis racket size max) and the affected areas completely died off. I reseeded these areas with Rolawn Medallion seed (i.e. same type as the turf) and all was restored.

> Waterlogging is a distinct possibility this wet year or over feeding or
> perhaps inappropriate dosage of weedkiller. Where abouts are you?

Wiltshire (South West). It has been very wet however nothing I would describe as flooding. I do feel that the garden drains well - at least on the surface (no puddles or anything like that) but perhaps underneath (on the clay pan ~8" below) things are different?

> It takes a lot to kill grass. The lush bits look a bit too lush to me
> which is why I wonder about over feeding with nitrogen.

As above, I could be guilty as charged - at least regarding leaving it on the surface but the dosage levels were right. I don't recall whether those small lush bits coincide with my reseeded bits or not. They do however represent the sort of size of damage I caused though.

> Worms don't usually retaliate like that. Although worms coming to the
> surface tends to suggest they were trying to avoid drowning in water
> sodden soil so they might be a symptom rather than a cause.

I did think that earthworms would be eating rotting matter and not the roots. It is worrying to hear about the reason for surfacing though - perhaps this is indicative of poor drainage underneath then?

> Use a fencing spade to take a narrow spade deep chunk out of the worst
> affected bit and see if it fills with water quickly or overnight.

Will do. I've just been out to dig a small hole (not big enough for your test though) and did find 2-3 grubs. Will catch and photo some tomorrow for identification.

> If it is that the punching a few drainage holes through the clay pan
> underneath will help a lot even though it is hard work.

I don't mind that. I am finding it hard work seeing how bad the lawn is looking! ;-)

> How much wear does the lawn get?

Very little - only the wife and I (and two cats). As you can probably surmise from the layout, it lends to only a couple of thoroughfares and we all (cats particularly!) tend to stick to them yet the problem is pretty much all over.

> It might grow back of its own accord
> when the weather improves - worth waiting before doing anything drastic.

Will do.

> Walking on soggy lawn will potentially make the grass die by suffocating
> the roots.

We are very much fair-weather outdoor types so we can rule that one out!

> Don't fret about it too much yet. Wait for spring to see if it comes
> back from the remaining roots before you do anything irreversible. Grass
> is quite good at recolonising ground when conditions are right.

Thanks. It is reassuring to hear that all might not be lost.

> Wait until spring and then give the bare bits a good rake and mix in
> some sharp sand and peat followed by a grass seed with similar
> characteristics to your turf or maybe a bit harder wearing.

Will do. I've got the majority left of Rolawn seed box and am assuming it lasts? (It it kept in a dry understairs cupboard).

> I'm a bit surprised by how bad it went so quickly. Given that it
> survived for the first year so well. What else might have happened in
> the Autumn that provoked such a serious level of die back?

Nothing that I can think of (other than me not watering in the lawn feed).

One other thing is that we used to have a cat that would regularly eat daddy long legs.. Sadly she passed away and the remaining one is too lazy to have taken over so the Aug/Sep 2015 season went unhunted...

> Do you have any intermediate pictures of its decline?

Unfortunately not. Whilst it was photographed regularly during the build (http://www.newtonnet.co.uk/garden/) I've been too ashamed to capture anything on film since its demise started...

> It almost looks like it has been overgrazed by rabbits or something. The
> part near the step could well be caused by compaction.

No rabbits! ;-) The bit around the step also sees very little use. It is however in shade during the winter months - indeed the whole garden arguably is.

Thanks again for your time and input.

Mathew

[Mathew Newton]

On Friday, 5 February 2016 17:56:12 UTC, Robert Harvey wrote:

> You mention leatherjackets, which is plausible, though this would be a
> major infestation.

I've just dug out a mugful of soil and found 2-3 grubs. If that density is uniform I guess this could be regarded as 'major'?

> I suspect waterlogging. How wet did it get in winter?
> Mine often has standing water & ends up with bare patches.

It certainly felt like it didn't stop raining, however I don't think we ever saw standing water - but then we didn't really go in to the garden given how unappealing it is looking!

> How long do you cut it? Some grasses don't like being scalped.

Rolawn recommend 25mm for their turf but I always found that felt like scalping and so went for 30mm. I do recall wondering if I had cut it too short for its last-cut-before-Winter trim though (I can't remember when that was now).

Mathew

[David Hill]

On 05/02/2016 16:56, mathewja...@googlemail.com wrote:

You don't say where about you are in the country.
Some parts of the UK have hardly had a dry day since the beginning of
October so waterloging could be a large part of the problem esp as you
say you have underlying clay.
Q. Is this a pan of clay or is it a deep layer that you cant break
through?
Q. Do you have water lying on the lawn after heavy rain?
Q. After prolonged rain can you walk on the grass without feeling as
if you are going to sink into the ground?
Q. Do you have dogs or children playing on the grass?

[Mathew Newton]

Hi Dave

On Friday, 5 February 2016 19:28:00 UTC, Dave Hill wrote:

> You don't say where about you are in the country.

Apologies - I am in Wiltshire (South West).

> Some parts of the UK have hardly had a dry day since the beginning of
> October so waterloging could be a large part of the problem esp as you
> say you have underlying clay.

Yes, it has been very wet. Not flooding by any stretch but seemingly endlessly 'damp'.

> Q. Is this a pan of clay or is it a deep layer that you cant break
> through?

In all honest I am not sure. When I dug out a deeply embedded washing line pole the clay seemed to go down at least 2 feet (the point at which the pole's concrete based come be removed).

> Q. Do you have water lying on the lawn after heavy rain?

Not that I have noticed. I will be keeping a keener eye on things now that I am facing up to the problem.

> Q. After prolonged rain can you walk on the grass without feeling as
> if you are going to sink into the ground?

I tend to stay off the grass when wet however the one time I did run out to rescue a broken fence I did feel that the ground was very soft. It had been very wet (the broken fence was storm damage) however I put the spongyness down to there being just soil and no grass given any structure.

> Q. Do you have dogs or children playing on the grass?

No. Just two cats but they tend to stick to the exact same path each time (and I do mean exact - to the same foot prints every time!).

[David Hill]

I'm wondering, when you got rid of the the patio and sub base did you
clear it right away at the edges so that you were into soil or did you
just clear the bulk and leave the edges?
If you left the edges then you have probably created a semi pond so that
the water is being slow to drain into the surrounding ground.
at 2ft you most definitely have a clay subsoil and wont be able to dig
through to break the pan.
You will have to try to remove the edges though your neighbours might
not like the thought of extra water at first, but they probably have the
same problems to some extent.
This drainage problem is probably why there was a patio there and not a
lawn.
The "Grubs" you have found wont make it ant better for the grass.
Looking at your pictures again it looks as if you have built a brick Dam
on the right hand side with no gaps between the bricks for water to
drain out, and it's this; right hand side; that looks the worst hit.
I wonder if this is the lowest point of your garden.
On the bright side the chances are that after this winter we wont have
another prolonged soak like we are having for several years so over
sowing in the spring could well give you a good lawn back.
Don't worry about the worms, you just need to brush off the worm casts.
We uses to use a birch broom swished across the grass to disperse them
on bowling greens.
Hope this helps a little.
David @ a yet again wet and windy side of Swansea bay

[brun...@gmail.com]

On Friday, 5 February 2016 19:25:43 UTC, Mathew Newton wrote:
> > You mention leatherjackets, which is plausible, though this would be a
> > major infestation.
>
> I've just dug out a mugful of soil and found 2-3 grubs. If that density is uniform I guess this could be regarded as 'major'?

More like 'typical', I'd have thought. You could try covering a couple of square metres with carpet and black sheeting for 24 hours when the soil is damp. If, when you take it off, you have a couple of hundred leatherjackets, that would be bad. If you have ten, that's normal.

Did you notice a lot of crane flies about at the end of last summer? If you had a major infestation I't expect a lot of birds feeding on the lawn, digging in the soul. Up to and including woodpeckers, they are very good at finding them.

I think that purveyors of 'treatments' overstate the leatherjacket menace.

[Another John]

In article <dhknfd...@mid.individual.net>,

David Hill <da...@abacus-nurseries.co.uk> wrote:

> On the bright side the chances are that after this winter we wont have

> another prolonged soak like we are having for several years ...

David -- I'd *love* to know what the basis for your saying this is! In
the currently relentlessly miserable world (from floods to refugees to
econonomic crises) that would be something to look forward to! (yeah
yeah yeah --- we'll have droughts instead, huh? :-)

Back on topic: Mathew: One of the first things I'd have done is email
those pictures to the people who make the lawn (seeds?) (I've forgotten
- you did mention the manufacturers in your first post). They after all
are the real experts in lawns.

FWIW -- my one view is that this is excessive rainfall.

Best wishes
John

[Mathew Newton]

On Friday, 5 February 2016 22:53:35 UTC, Dave Hill wrote:

> I'm wondering, when you got rid of the the patio and sub base did you
> clear it right away at the edges so that you were into soil or did you
> just clear the bulk and leave the edges?

I took advantage of the fact that I had both a skip and plenty of enthusiasm and so was fairly liberal with my clearance gettig rid of as much I could tell was 'not good' - this included the sand/cement sub-base obviously but also the more clayey of soil that resembled plasticine.

> If you left the edges then you have probably created a semi pond so that
> the water is being slow to drain into the surrounding ground.

The brick walls will inevitably be causing an edge effect however the bottom of the garden underneath the decking is actually a recessed bowl. You can hopefully just about make this out in the following image (the turf is level with the top of those flags):

http://www.newtonnet.co.uk/garden/#100_0943.JPG

Furthermore, within that bowl (bottom right) is a rainwater drain manhole cover which, whilst not open, is not watertight and so I would expect it to allow some egress of excess water.

> This drainage problem is probably why there was a patio there and not a
> lawn.

I was fearing that and hoping that the old(er) couple that lived here before were just a big fan of roses and flower beds!

> The "Grubs" you have found wont make it ant better for the grass.

I lifted a square foot of weed fabric I laid down last night and found these (high res images for zooming):

http://www.newtonnet.co.uk/permanent/grubs1.jpg
http://www.newtonnet.co.uk/permanent/grubs2.jpg (probably around 50 of these in a ball)
http://www.newtonnet.co.uk/permanent/grubs3.jpg

> Looking at your pictures again it looks as if you have built a brick Dam
> on the right hand side with no gaps between the bricks for water to
> drain out, and it's this; right hand side; that looks the worst hit.

There are some weep hole in the mortar joints but whether they are working I don't know.

> On the bright side the chances are that after this winter we wont have
> another prolonged soak like we are having for several years so over
> sowing in the spring could well give you a good lawn back.

Finger's crossed but I fear that this type of weather might be the shape of things to come!

> Hope this helps a little.

It does; thanks David. Indeed thank you to everyone that has taken the time to chip in.

Mathew

[Mathew Newton]

On Saturday, 6 February 2016 03:26:26 UTC, brun...@gmail.com wrote:

> More like 'typical', I'd have thought. You could try covering a couple of
> square metres with carpet and black sheeting for 24 hours when the soil is
> damp. If, when you take it off, you have a couple of hundred leatherjackets,
> that would be bad. If you have ten, that's normal.

I did around a square *foot* and got this: (high res for zooming)

http://www.newtonnet.co.uk/permanent/grubs1.jpg

Of particular note were around 50 of these:

http://www.newtonnet.co.uk/permanent/grubs2.jpg

Which I am guessing are slightly more immature versions of these, of which there were a good 10-12?

http://www.newtonnet.co.uk/permanent/grubs3.jpg

Mathew

[Another John]

In article <397660c7-065e-4fd7...@googlegroups.com>,

Mathew Newton <mathewja...@googlemail.com> wrote:

> I lifted a square foot of weed fabric I laid down last night and found these
> (high res images for zooming):
>
> http://www.newtonnet.co.uk/permanent/grubs1.jpg
> http://www.newtonnet.co.uk/permanent/grubs2.jpg (probably around 50 of these
> in a ball)
> http://www.newtonnet.co.uk/permanent/grubs3.jpg

Wow! I revise my earlier diagnosis, such as it was, of "excessive
rainfall" to "excessive pests as well as rainfall".
I think you need to take steps. You could do with a local flock of
starlings/jackdaws ... but failing that Janet's post earlier gave a link
straight to some pest controllers. I'd ask your lawn suppliers if the
have recommendations.

I've never seen so many bugs in such a small area - ecchh!

John

[Mathew Newton]

On Saturday, 6 February 2016 09:38:07 UTC, Another John wrote:

> Back on topic: Mathew: One of the first things I'd have done is email
> those pictures to the people who make the lawn (seeds?)

Excellent idea - have just sent them (Rolawn) an e-mail.

> FWIW -- my one view is that this is excessive rainfall.

I am fearing that too, and in particular that I might be short of options to mitigate it in the future.

I have never forked the lawn since laid - might this alone help? Presumably it should be done once the weather starts to dry in order to avoid further compaction (from the walking and forking)?

Mathew

[Nick Maclaren]

In article <lalaw44-B469CD...@news.plus.net>,

Another John <lal...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>In article <397660c7-065e-4fd7...@googlegroups.com>,
> Mathew Newton <mathewja...@googlemail.com> wrote:
>
>> I lifted a square foot of weed fabric I laid down last night and found these
>> (high res images for zooming):
>>
>> http://www.newtonnet.co.uk/permanent/grubs1.jpg
>> http://www.newtonnet.co.uk/permanent/grubs2.jpg (probably around 50 of these
>> in a ball)
>> http://www.newtonnet.co.uk/permanent/grubs3.jpg
>

>I've never seen so many bugs in such a small area - ecchh!

It doesn't look good, I agree. A is earthworm - good. D and E look
like leopard slugs - also good (they are carnivores). But the rest
all look like plant eaters.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

[Fran Farmer]

On 6/02/2016 8:38 PM, Another John wrote:
> In article <dhknfd...@mid.individual.net>,
> David Hill <da...@abacus-nurseries.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> On the bright side the chances are that after this winter we wont have
>> another prolonged soak like we are having for several years ...
>
> David -- I'd *love* to know what the basis for your saying this is! In
> the currently relentlessly miserable world (from floods to refugees to
> econonomic crises) that would be something to look forward to! (yeah
> yeah yeah --- we'll have droughts instead, huh? :-)

Be very careful what you wish for!

For a gardener, it's very distressing to see plants curl up and die
because of lack of water or to even sit there and do nothing as the
water they are being given is only just keeping them alive but is not
enough to make them thrive.

[Vir Campestris]

On 06/02/2016 11:03, Another John wrote:
>
> Wow! I revise my earlier diagnosis, such as it was, of "excessive
> rainfall" to "excessive pests as well as rainfall".
> I think you need to take steps. You could do with a local flock of
> starlings/jackdaws ... but failing that Janet's post earlier gave a link
> straight to some pest controllers. I'd ask your lawn suppliers if the
> have recommendations.
>
> I've never seen so many bugs in such a small area - ecchh!
>

https://www.rhs.org.uk/advice/profile?pid=651

Andy

[Mathew Newton]

On Sunday, 7 February 2016 21:58:15 UTC, Vir Campestris wrote:

> > I've never seen so many bugs in such a small area - ecchh!
> >
> https://www.rhs.org.uk/advice/profile?pid=651
>
> Andy

Yes, I'm pretty confident that they are leatherjackets - both by look and effect!

Actually, I think my issue is multifaceted and something of a perfect storm:

- Very wet winter
- Clay subsoil and consequently less then ideal drainage
- Leatherjackets infestation
- A too short pre-winter final cut leaving the grass weaker than it could otherwise have been

When the weather starts to improve I may attempt to remove as many leatherjackets as is feasible - there's only a finite number out there - it's not like they are breeding, yet! Every leatherjacket I remove is one less at the dinner table. I will then give a treatment of nematodes when the soil temperature increases to tackle the remainder.

I may well give another treatment at the end of summer, following hatching of eggs laid by those I've missed, to hopefully remove this factor from the equation for next winter...

Thanks again to everyone for all the input - it has been really appreciated.

Mathew

[Vir Campestris]

On 08/02/2016 21:03, Mathew Newton wrote:
> I may well give another treatment at the end of summer, following hatching of eggs laid by those I've missed, to hopefully remove this factor from the equation for next winter...

Leatherjackets are the larvae of craneflies. They don't lay eggs
themselves - they have to emerge as adults, and then the adults lay
eggs. They aren't doing it in this weather.

If you can keep the adults off somehow you won't have a problem next
year. I wouldn't be surprised to find the nematodes persist for a while
at least - or else how do they survive outside the lab & garden?

Andy

[alan_m]

The question is how do you breed the leatherjacketnematodes?

Nematodes for slugs can be a DIY process by collecting slugs and keeping
them in moist/wet confined container until they die and then using the
resultant mush in water.

--
mailto: news {at} admac {dot] myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

[Mathew Newton]

On Monday, 8 February 2016 21:41:00 UTC, Vir Campestris wrote:
> On 08/02/2016 21:03, Mathew Newton wrote:
> > I may well give another treatment at the end of summer, following hatching of eggs laid by those I've missed, to hopefully remove this factor from the equation for next winter...
>
> Leatherjackets are the larvae of craneflies. They don't lay eggs
> themselves - they have to emerge as adults, and then the adults lay
> eggs.

That's what I meant - I'll retreat in Sep/Oct when the eggs laid by any crane flies (there are bound to be some) start to hatch.

> If you can keep the adults off somehow you won't have a problem next
> year.

We used to have a cat that would chase and eat them.... The one we've got now is too lazy for that sort of thing though so it might be down to me (to chase at least!).

Mathew

[Mathew Newton]

On Monday, 8 February 2016 21:51:35 UTC, alan_m wrote:

> The question is how do you breed the leatherjacket nematodes?

I'll be taking the easy option and just buying them (e.g. Nemasys).

I suppose they'll start breeding themselves once they start doing their thing. ;-)

[Robert Harvey]

Mathew Newton <mathewja...@googlemail.com> wrote:

> Actually, I think my issue is multifaceted and something of a perfect storm:

(Snip list)
... I also wondered if your extravagant and well intentioned subsoil might
have made a tempting home for crane flies whilst being too clean to contain
any natural controls (!) - the law of unintended consequences.

> I will then give a treatment of nematodes

Don't forget the low tech option - the more birds come to your garden the
fewer crane flies there will be, and the more leatherjackets will get eaten
too. Unfortunately by different types of bird....

> Thanks again to everyone for all the input - it has been really appreciated.

Glad to help. URG was always usenet at its best.

[Martin Brown]

On 08/02/2016 23:03, Mathew Newton wrote:
> On Monday, 8 February 2016 21:51:35 UTC, alan_m wrote:
>
>> The question is how do you breed the leatherjacket nematodes?
>
> I'll be taking the easy option and just buying them (e.g. Nemasys).

Wait until it is warmer a lot of the eco controls are very touchy about
the temeprature when they are applied and if there are no active hosts
available then they die out very quickly.

> I suppose they'll start breeding themselves once they start doing their thing. ;-)

It might be easier to hang up a peanut bird feeder to invite more birds
into the garden that will eat up insects in the lawn. Green woodpeckers
are perfect for this though most birds will eat whatever they can find.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

[Janet]

In article <220644133.47666...@nntp.aioe.org>,
no_e...@invalid.invalid says...

Well, he could make a start by laying a sheet of black plastic on the
lawn at night (opened-out compost bag) to bring leatherjackets to the
surface; then remove it in the morning and scatter a little bird seed.
Garden birds will quickly habituate to a regular food supply. Repeat
until the leatherjacket population dwindles.

Janet.

[Janet]

In article <n9cgte$13d7$1...@gioia.aioe.org>,
|||newspam|||@nezumi.demon.co.uk says...

I've found that a fast and harmless way to clear infestations of
greenfly or blackfly. The peanuts lure in the bluetits.

Janet.

[Martin Brown]

Likewise for assorted tits but ours also gets nuthatches, and greater
and lesser spotted woodpeckers in winter. The big woodpecker is a
surprisingly nervous bird considering everything gets out of its way!

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

[Mathew Newton]

On Tuesday, 9 February 2016 11:34:01 UTC, Janet wrote:

> Well, he could make a start by laying a sheet of black plastic on the
> lawn at night (opened-out compost bag) to bring leatherjackets to the

> surface; then remove it in the morning ...]

That's my plan. The quick experiment with weed fabric the other night proved very effective.

> [...] and scatter a little bird seed.

I'll probably stick to manual clearance as with two cats I wouldn't be comfortable inadvertently luring birds to what could possibly be their last meal!

Mathew

[Mathew Newton]

On Monday, 8 February 2016 23:17:59 UTC, Robert Harvey wrote:

> ... I also wondered if your extravagant and well intentioned subsoil might
> have made a tempting home for crane flies whilst being too clean to contain
> any natural controls (!) - the law of unintended consequences.

An interesting point - hadn't considered that!

[Mathew Newton]

On Saturday, 6 February 2016 09:38:07 UTC, Another John wrote:

> Back on topic: Mathew: One of the first things I'd have done is email
> those pictures to the people who make the lawn (seeds?) (I've forgotten
> - you did mention the manufacturers in your first post). They after all
> are the real experts in lawns.

I took your advice and got in touch with Rolawn. They even passed on my photos to the Sports Turf Research Institute and they both believe, caveated by the limited information to go on, that the primary issue is a leatherjacket infestation.

The mild autumn/winter has been suggested an aggravating factor and they have suggested a nematode application once the soil warms up. I plan to do this in April and will also apply in Sep/Oct when the new eggs start to hatch.

I plan on looking at drainage too and will post back tomorrow with a drawing to get thoughts from the panel!

Mathew

[Mathew Newton]

On Friday, 19 February 2016 17:55:54 UTC, Mathew Newton wrote:

> (Full thread for reference: https://groups.google.com/d/msg/uk.rec.gardening/kZR7JqQ9Jn0/TEiobQMVAgAJ)

> I plan on looking at drainage too and will post back tomorrow with a drawing
> to get thoughts from the panel!

I have done this now and would be grateful to hear what others think of me taking advantage of a rainwater sewer inspection chamber that I happen to have under my decking...

A picture speaks a thousand words:

http://www.newtonnet.co.uk/permanent/Drainage%20Ideas.pdf (3.2MB)

The decking sits in a recess (to minimise the step up from the lawn) and so as a result I am assuming it is well located for draining the whole garden.

The easy (lazy) option (Option A in the drawing) would be for me to perforate the chamber walls - perhaps to nearly full height - however I am mindful that this could cause silting up of the outflow pipe over time?

Option B would be to dig around the top 250mm or so (access isn't all that easy given the surrounding decking hence not doing this for the full height), wrap it with permeable weed-stop fabric and infill with gravel. Only this section would then be perforated and this ought to cause less issues with silting due to the fabric mainly only allowing water through.

Any thoughts on this idea? I recognise that the ideal (aka 'should have done this in the first place'!) option would be to provide channels from across the lawn to the chamber as the clay subsoil might not allow free levelling/distribution of the water without these however I am mindful that I don't have a confirmed drainage issue and also want to minimise effort by not digging the whole lawn/soil up if at all possible!

Mathew

[Janet]

In article <013b3a72-4341-416b...@googlegroups.com>,
mathewja...@googlemail.com says...

I can't tell if there's any slope towards the colelction chamber; if
not I'm not sure it will drain the lawn much.

I strongly recommend you ask some advice from Tony at his website
here
http://www.pavingexpert.com/

Tony used to be a regular poster here, and he really is an expert,
not just on paving but also drainage; so tell him you came from urg and
Janet says hello. He's helped a lot of people here and gave me a lot of
advice when we were draining out garden.

Janet.

[Mathew Newton]

On Saturday, 20 February 2016 18:22:56 UTC, Janet wrote:

> I can't tell if there's any slope towards the colelction chamber; if
> not I'm not sure it will drain the lawn much.

There's no slope. However, a sump (which is what this would be acting as) doesn't need one as it works on the self-levelling action of ground water. My issue though could be the non-permeability of clay which might reduce the amount of water that can travel towards the chamber - it is hard to say though as I don't know the relative heights of each layer.

> I strongly recommend you ask some advice from Tony at his website
> here
> http://www.pavingexpert.com/

Yes, I know (of) Tony - he taught me everything I know, and then some, for several patios I've laid. I'd rather not send an unsolicited request to him though as I'm sure he gets inundated with them. Besides which, all his info is on his site and if I've got Tony right I'm pretty sure he'd equate my half-a-job drainage idea as being akin to the 5-blob patio laying method and lambast me accordingly!