Help, My Builder Is Threatening To Take Me To Court!!
clare...@hotmail.com
regarding a miserable and depressing situation I find myself in with a
builder, who is now threatening to take me to court over unpaid
monies!
I asked the builder to quote for a major building project on my house,
involving knocking down walls between a number of rooms, building new
stud walls, plastering and decorating rooms, rewiring, replumbing,
building two new bathrooms upstairs where one existed previously, etc
etc. The builder provided an estimate of £26K plus extras. I was very
nervous about the costs spiralling upwards so asked for reassurance
from the builder that this was a thorough estimate and that there were
no obvious reasons why it should increase too much. He said that there
would only be extra charges for unforseen extras.
The works were planned to be carried out over a two month period and
everything seemed to be going OK. We were paying the builder
installments of £4K in cash every week or so up until £23K where we
agreed to pay the final £3K plus any extras on completion. At a late
stage the builder suggested we install a new kitchen he could get on
discount for £4,750. He said it would cost a couple of grand to rip
outthe kitchen and install the new one, so we agreed. We paid the
£4,750 for the Kitchen and work continued on this as well.
After another two months, with the kitchen partly installed, and with
most of the work completed, he presented us with an extras bill of
£18K (already paid £23K of original estimate) which shocked us to the
very core. The bill contained 38 detailed extras with charges
alongside which cause us a huge range of concerns. We had naively
assumed some of them were part of the original estimate, none of the
costs had been communicated to us at the time and many of them seemed
far higher than we could have ever imagined. Even with the extra work
on the Kitchen we had assumed that the final bill would be no more
than 9 or 10K.
We informed the builder that we were unhappy with the bill and that we
needed to discuss it. Before we had an opportunity to do this, he had
a lbazing row with my wife in our house and proceeded to remove all
his tools and equipment and even the left over paint and slammed the
door behind him.
I then endeavoured to remedy the situation by sending him a list of
the extras items I was unhappy with but he responded angrily in
writing that the original estimate was just an estimate and the extras
bill was absolutely what he expected to be paid. He reluctantly
reduced the bill to £16K but did not indicate where this £2k reduction
had specifically come from.
Given the unpleasant row he had had with my wife and with a gulf
between what we believed we should be paying and what he was
demanding, I paid him £10K and told him that we would not require him
to finish the work on our house which included a number of the extra
works billed for and loads of snagging/tidying up issues given the
size of job.
4 weeks passed and I now received a letter from his solictor
demandning that we pay the remaining goodwill balance of £6k by 2 Feb,
or they will take me to Court to recover the full £8k outstanding from
the extras bill!
Any opinion would be gratefully recieved as there is no way I want to,
feel I should, pay for works some of which have not been done, or have
not been completed, and where the overall job has not been finished! I
have obtained advice from a number of tradesmen who have said that
some of the charges for the works were very excessive.
Thoughts?
Michael Hoffman
> I now received a letter from his solictor
> demandning that we pay the remaining goodwill balance of £6k by 2 Feb,
> or they will take me to Court to recover the full £8k outstanding from
> the extras bill!
You're being sued for GBP 8,000? Retain a solicitor.
--
Michael Hoffman
The Todal
"Michael Hoffman" <cam....@mh391.invalid> wrote in message
news:fncqgs$o8b$1...@gemini.csx.cam.ac.uk...
Too early for that, perhaps.
I suggest writing to the solicitor, setting out the facts as you see them,
and quoting from all written documents such as estimates and quotes (nb, if
there were none, that only goes to show how important it is to get these
things in writing before work starts).
Something like: on [date] the claimant provided a quotation which came to a
total of 26k plus certain specified extras [set out what these were]. On
[date] it was agreed that for the additional sum of 4750 he would install a
kitchen. In breach of contract he has now told us that he is no longer
willing to complete the work for the agreed price, and has wrongfully
claimed that various necessary items of work are to be regarded as "extras"
when plainly they were part of the works originally quoted for. We are now
having the work completed by another builder and reserve the right to sue
your client for the additional costs we incur. Consequently it is denied
that we are liable for the sum claimed by your client.
In addition I think it would be a good idea to check his notepaper to see
what professional associations he belongs to (maybe the National Guild of
Cowboy Conmen) and write to them to make a complaint. It might even
transpire that his membership has lapsed or that he never was a member.
In addition, check your household insurance (contents) policy to see if
legal expenses cover is included in the policy. That could be useful at a
later date, but it might be essential to report this as a potential claim
immediately - perhaps within 6 months of the builder's letter of claim.
steve robinson
the op said that the builder supplied an estimate for the works , an
estimate is only a guess it is not a fixed price qoutation , its
amazing how many people dont know the difference
Assumming something is included within a costing does no make it so ,
generally speaking if its not on the piece of paper its not included in
the costing
The builder does sound a bit of a prat , yo dont just present a
customer a large extras bill no matter how justified it may be the
customer will always complain , better to break the extras down and
invoice them as you go along , keeps everyoe happy
The customer should expect to pay a premium for any extras as they
inevitably disrupt the job flow , they also need to take on board the
builder will incur extra costs such as delivery/collection loss of bulk
order discount etc this would be passed on
Ian
> I asked the builder to quote for a major building project on my house,
> involving knocking down walls between a number of rooms, building new
> stud walls, plastering and decorating rooms, rewiring, replumbing,
> building two new bathrooms upstairs where one existed previously, etc
> etc. The builder provided an estimate of £26K plus extras.
You have just learned why large projects like this should be done on
the basis of quotations rather than estimates. This is almost certain
to cost you many thousands of pounds, one way or another. Sorry.
Ian
Dave
The estimate is more than just a guess - you can make a guess without
actually seeing the work.
The estimate should have some relation to the expected actual cost and
the question arises as to what variance would be reasonable to be
accommodated in the final cost. For routine work (and there is no
suggestion that this is anything other than that), the variance should
be small.
Agreeing to pay unspecified 'extras' is of course not sensible.
Colin Peters
"Ian" <ian.g...@btinternet.com> wrote in message
news:49230088-e047-41b5...@y5g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
Ian
There again you might come up trumps.
As an honest builder who did a good job, look what happened to me.
http://colinpetersbd40jh.tripod.com
peterco...@gmail.com
My advice is - and it won't help you or me this time round - is to get to a solicitor yourself, FIRST, as soon as anything starts to smell dodgy.
Our builder came at us 14 months after he walked off the job. He produced a list of all sorts of stuff that we thought were in the original quotation - but his solicitor decided that his excuse that 'things cost more than he had expected them to' was better than the facts it seems.
He is now talking about invoicing us for doing our bathroom as well - even though this work was done by another company.
He has obviously found a friend and ally and is looking for ways to milk it.
I wonder if the fact that we have an invoice, marked 'Paid In Full' from this other company will sway the solicitor this time round?
The Todal
posts. Nor can I find a previous post in uk.legal. I'm now wondering if
this is a reply to a very old and expired post.
R. Mark Clayton
SNIP
> After another two months, with the kitchen partly installed, and with
> most of the work completed, he presented us with an extras bill of
> £18K (already paid £23K of original estimate) which shocked us to the
> very core. The bill contained 38 detailed extras with charges
> alongside which cause us a huge range of concerns. We had naively
> assumed some of them were part of the original estimate, none of the
> costs had been communicated to us at the time and many of them seemed
> far higher than we could have ever imagined. Even with the extra work
> on the Kitchen we had assumed that the final bill would be no more
> than 9 or 10K.
>
> We informed the builder that we were unhappy with the bill and that we
> needed to discuss it. Before we had an opportunity to do this, he had
> a lbazing row with my wife in our house and proceeded to remove all
> his tools and equipment and even the left over paint and slammed the
> door behind him.
>
> I then endeavoured to remedy the situation by sending him a list of
> the extras items I was unhappy with but he responded angrily in
> writing that the original estimate was just an estimate and the extras
> bill was absolutely what he expected to be paid. He reluctantly
> reduced the bill to £16K but did not indicate where this £2k reduction
> had specifically come from.
>
> Given the unpleasant row he had had with my wife and with a gulf
> between what we believed we should be paying and what he was
> demanding, I paid him £10K and told him that we would not require him
> to finish the work on our house which included a number of the extra
> works billed for and loads of snagging/tidying up issues given the
> size of job.
>
> 4 weeks passed and I now received a letter from his solictor
> demandning that we pay the remaining goodwill balance of £6k by 2 Feb,
> or they will take me to Court to recover the full £8k outstanding from
> the extras bill!
>
> Any opinion would be gratefully received as there is no way I want to,
> not been completed, and where the overall job has not been finished! I
> have obtained advice from a number of tradesmen who have said that
> some of the charges for the works were very excessive.
You can still counter offer "without prejudice" or even pay money into court. In the mean time start working out your defence.
>
> Thoughts?
The mistake here was to proceed on estimates. Fine while you cost a job, but to order you need quotes and if the job is complicated the contract should be let on the basis that the contractor is an experienced professional in the field and will be responsible for any additional costs other than natural perils. OTOH this was a small project and I have certainly engaged builders on a time and materials basis particularly when the quality of work is important.
Don't feel too bad about this - even people who should know a lot better get this wrong - e.g. a money pit like: -
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edinburgh_Trams
Robin
>
> Although I allowed this through moderation, I can't see any previous
> posts. Nor can I find a previous post in uk.legal. I'm now wondering if
> this is a reply to a very old and expired post.
your post appeared.
<https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/uk.legal.moderated/K2nJ4Crer4Q>)
--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid
Roger Hayter
put forward the builder's position, unless perhaps he knows for a fact
that it is fraudulent, which is very unlkely whatever he may suspect.
You cannot expect fairness from the other side's solitcitor, it is not
his job. If you don't agree with the builder's position and there is a
significant money involved you need to get your own solicitor.
Or was this some kind of mediation?
If the builder tries to charge you for work someone else did that you
have already paid for this is fraud. Unless the person who did it was a
subcontractor of the builder's, in which case you should not have paid
them. Unfortunately it is unlikely that the police will bother to help
you so, again, you need your own solicitor. It will cost you several
hundred pounds but if more is involved it is worth it. And you might
be able to recover some of your costs from the bulder.
Are you elderly, frail or disabled in any way? If so it might be worth
complaining to social services that you are being financially abused.
--
Roger Hayter
Roger Hayter
situation from that in the old post.
--
Roger Hayter
Nick
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/uk.legal.moderated/K2nJ4Crer4Q/_R2ZZcknxnYJ>
RobertL
> We have just been through a similar situation, and we have been pressurised into paying up. We thought that the solicitor would actually listen to both sides of the argument, but he just took the word of the builder - even when presented with clear evidence that there was some considerable doubt about the stuff the builder was saying.
R
