Clearance above lit candles
Grimly Fiendish
Anybody know a clearance figure that should be left above a lit candle
flame and the ceiling?
Google's pointed me in the direction of some U.S. advice but these are
all *horizontal* clearance - as regards vertical they just say
"ample".
I'm about to hang a cartwheel type chandelier and fix wall sconces -
the electric lighting is concealed uplighters and spots.
Having been in one fire (overloaded 100A distribution board) I don't
want another ...
Thanks,
GF
Phil Addison
Fiendish) wrote:
>
>Anybody know a clearance figure that should be left above a lit candle
>flame and the ceiling?
>
Seems totally reasonable. Try this:
Light candle.
Put hand above it.
If you hear someone say "ouch", raise hand higher. If not, lower it.
Repeat until safe distance found.
Double or treble it.
--
Phil Addison
"UK.D-I-Y FAQ" http://pages.eidosnet.co.uk/~ukdiy/contents.html
Odi1632134
>flame and the ceiling?
Sorry, no idea, but;
>Having been in one fire (overloaded 100A distribution board) I don't
>want another ...
That must have been one hell of a load if in a domestic situation. I'd be
interested in that story.
Dave Liquorice
>> ... as regards vertical they just say "ample".
>
> Seems totally reasonable.
But not particulary informative. And one certainluy can't extrapolate
form any horizontal distances given.
> Try this:
> Light candle.
> Put hand above it.
> If you hear someone say "ouch", raise hand higher. If not, lower it.
> Repeat until safe distance found.
> Double or treble it.
I guess the x2 or x3 would help in the long term heating effects that
the "ouch" test would miss.
I've seen wood char at about 18" above a candle in a fairly short time
(an hour or so). So 3 or 4' would seem reasonable to avoid such
drastic heating effects. Also above any candle your going to get
blackening from the soot, don't confuse this and heat damage.
--
Cheers new...@howhill.com
Dave. Remove "spam" for valid email.
Phil Addison
To be more serious, the much greater risk is the unforseen danger such as
some one/thing/animal knocking it over or causing something flammable to
fall on the flame. I don't know why "Grimly Fiendish" wants to do this but
leaving any lighted flame unattended is asking for trouble and would almost
certainly void the insurance.
Grimly Fiendish
wrote:
>To be more serious, the much greater risk is the unforseen danger such as
>some one/thing/animal knocking it over or causing something flammable to
>fall on the flame. I don't know why "Grimly Fiendish" wants to do this
There shouldn't be a problem with the candles being knocked over -
they're in proper wall sconces or holders in the candelabra.
As to why - well I've a penchant for the gothick look ...
Further digging round on fire-safety sites unearthed one tale of a
candle flame getting *very* long indeed - must have been very strange
atmospheric conditions.
I can get about three feet clearance between the ceiling and the
candle flame of a new 6" candle in the candelabra and as it's over a
table then it doesn't matter about people walking into it.
GF
Phil Addison
Fiendish) wrote:
>There shouldn't be a problem with the candles being knocked over -
>they're in proper wall sconces or holders in the candelabra.
Yeah, right.
>I can get about three feet clearance between the ceiling and the
>candle flame of a new 6" candle in the candelabra and as it's over a
>table then it doesn't matter about people walking into it.
Yeah, right.
mike staniforth
<20010527112650...@ng-mj1.aol.com>...
I agree. 100 A is a pretty hefty domestic load, but you can easily come
close to it. A few years ago, I was without my gas central heating in the
middle of winter while having an extension built. We used fan heaters to
keep a couple of rooms luke warm.
I had visions of a Sunday morning when SWMBO might take the first load of
washing out of the machine, and put it in the tumble dryer before starting
the second load. She would then start to cook the dinner. Feeling ready for
refreshment after all that work, she would make a cup of tea. Then the boys
would have just used the hot water for their baths, so the immersion heater
would kick in. That makes a total of:
washing machine 3 kW
tumble dryer 3 kW
cooker 5 kW (oven plus two rings together)
kettle 2 kW
immersion heater 3 kW
fan heaters 5 kW
That makes a peak total of 21 kW (87 A). My meter is rated at 80/100 A, but
it doesn't say which!! Neither did I know whether my main fuses were rated
at 80 or 100 A.
I rang the electricity board to find out. The man was most suspicious, and
wanted to know why I was asking. After I had convinced him that my enquiry
was fully legit, he still couldn't answer the question. Apparently, they
don't keep such records for individual houses.
Mike Staniforth
Bob Eager
<mike.st...@btinternet.com> wrote:
> I rang the electricity board to find out. The man was most suspicious, and
> wanted to know why I was asking. After I had convinced him that my enquiry
> was fully legit, he still couldn't answer the question. Apparently, they
> don't keep such records for individual houses.
When the man came to connect up a new consumer unit, and saw how much
I was installing, he asked if I'd like the 80A fuses replaced with
100A ones, since the outside cable would take it....all I have to do
is install larger meter tails...
--
Bob Eager
rde at tavi.co.uk
PC Server 325; PS/2s 8595*3, 9595*3 (2*P60 + P90), 8535, 8570, 9556*2,
8580*6,
8557*2, 8550, 9577, 8530, P70, PC/AT..
Brendan Ward
board main fuse is 100A, the main consumer unit is rated at 80A, and I am
proposing to put a consumer unit in the garage with a 25A RCD and a 6 and 16A
MCB, fed from a 30A fuse in the house via a 2.5mm SWA cable 22 metres in length.
Is the 30A fuse in the house too much, too little or just right, and what
dictates the size the fuse should be?
Thanks
Brendan Ward
Malcolm Race
<URL:mailto:bre...@dunblane.karoo.co.uk> wrote:
> I am considering running an underground cable to my garage. The electricity
> board main fuse is 100A, the main consumer unit is rated at 80A, and I am
> proposing to put a consumer unit in the garage with a 25A RCD and a 6 and 16A
> MCB, fed from a 30A fuse in the house via a 2.5mm SWA cable 22 metres in length.
> Is the 30A fuse in the house too much, too little or just right, and what
> dictates the size the fuse should be?
> Thanks
> Brendan Ward
The individual MCBs limit the current in each circuit
The wires and other equipment between the Elec. Co. fuse and the individual MCBs
should be rated at leat to pass safely the current passed by the Elec. Co. fuse.
The wiring and equipment after the MCB should be rated to pass safely the current
passed by the MCB.
Will the 2.5mm SWA Cable and CU it is supplying pass safely the 30A which the fuse
supplying it can pass?
Will the cable and devices supplied from the 6A and 16A MCBs pass safely the
current supplied to them?
If the answer to these questions is yes, then the system is safe.
The description which you supply fits almost exactly a system which I fitted to
supply a shed about 3 years ago
HTH
Malcolm
--
Is Microsoft another name for world domination?
Hard work pays off in the future. Laziness pays off now.
Andrew Gabriel
"mike staniforth" <mike.st...@btinternet.com> writes:
>
>I rang the electricity board to find out. The man was most suspicious, and
>wanted to know why I was asking. After I had convinced him that my enquiry
>was fully legit, he still couldn't answer the question. Apparently, they
>don't keep such records for individual houses.
It's a perfectly legit question, and it is explicitly listed in the
Electricity Supply Regulations 1988 as a piece of information they
must give you if you ask (not necessarily for free though).
--
Andrew Gabriel
Consultant Software Engineer
Andrew Gabriel
I've seen it commercially on a few occations - always the same cause...
Someone installs a 3-phase distribution unit, 3 x 100A, but feeds it
from a single phase supply, design loading 300A. What happens is the
neutral burns out, because the neutral was only designed for 100A (or
maybe a little more to allow for 3rd harmonics), but has 300A running
in it. I once spent a while trying to explain this to the electrician
who had come back for the second time to replace a burned out unit,
but I completely failed to make him understand what the problem was.
You can use a 3-phase distribution unit on a single phase by connecting
all the phases to the single phase supply, but you cannot use it for
more current in total than the rating of one of its phases.
Bob Eager
<bre...@dunblane.karoo.co.uk> wrote:
> I am considering running an underground cable to my garage. The electricity
> board main fuse is 100A, the main consumer unit is rated at 80A, and I am
> proposing to put a consumer unit in the garage with a 25A RCD and a 6 and 16A
> MCB, fed from a 30A fuse in the house via a 2.5mm SWA cable 22 metres in length.
> Is the 30A fuse in the house too much, too little or just right, and what
> dictates the size the fuse should be?
AFAIR, 2.5mm cable is rated at about 20A. The circuit protection
should be designed to prevent cable overload. Something will have to
change.
Alan James
"Bob Eager" <rd...@spamcop.net> wrote in message
news:176uZD2KcidF-p...@rikki.tavi.co.uk...
>
> AFAIR, 2.5mm cable is rated at about 20A.
not if its underground SWA. Don't know exact cable type, protection and
installation method so can't advise categorically, but for example,
PVC/PVC/SWA/PVC would be 41A for direct burial and 34A for installation in
ducts, all subject to adjustment factors for temperature and protection.
Alan
Bob Eager
wrote:
Thanks....at least I erred on the safe side!
Andy Wade
> I am considering running an underground cable to my garage. The
electricity
> board main fuse is 100A, the main consumer unit is rated at 80A, and I
am
> proposing to put a consumer unit in the garage with a 25A RCD and a 6
and 16A
> MCB, fed from a 30A fuse in the house via a 2.5mm SWA cable 22 metres
in length.
To assess this 'design' I will make some assumptions: (1) the 6A MCB is
for lights - a couples of fluorescent battens perhaps - with a total
loading of no more than (say) two amps; (2) the 16A MCB is for one or
more 13A sockets - let's assume it's more than one, but that you (quite
reasonably) don't expect the total load to exceed 16A. With only these
two circuits we can't apply any further diversity, so the 'design
current' for the submain from the house is 18A. That's well within the
current rating of 2.5mm^2 SWA cable, which is 36A (for 'clipped direct'
installation) for the XLPE insulated variety.
However voltage drop may be a problem. 2.5mm^2 drops 19mV/A/m -- a total
drop of 7.5V in this case. This uses up over 3% of the total 4% voltage
drop allowance, so doesn't leave you much for the wiring in the garage
itself.
IMHO you should seriously consider using 4mm^2 SWA for the submain run.
The cost difference between 2.5 and 4 is minuscule.
> Is the 30A fuse in the house too much, too little or just right, and
what
> dictates the size the fuse should be?
Just right, I'd say. It needs to be large enough for discrimination with
the 16A MCB (i.e. tripping the breaker should not also blow the fuse),
and small enough to give fault (i.e. short-circuit) protection for the
cable. In fact if you do stick with the 2.5 cable then the 30A fuse must
not be of the re-wireable type. Using 4mm^2 removes this restriction.
(NB contrary to what others have implied, there is no requirement here
for the cable current rating to exceed the 30A fuse rating. This is
because overload protection is provided downstream by the MCB's; the 30A
fuse is only providing s/c protection. Consult Google to find many
previous threads on this subject, which is only of academic interest in
this case where the cable size is determined by voltage drop
considerations.)
<Earthing> To complete the job in style, use TT earthing for the garage
installation, rather than 'exporting' the house earth. Connect the SWA
armour to earth at the house end only. At the other end use an
insulating gland (or terminate onto a plastic housing). Use a separate
earth electrode for the garage installation. The RCD, which you have
already mentioned, should have a rated tripping current of 10mA or 30mA
and must not be of the time-delayed variety.
HTH
--
Andy
jcar...@gmail.com
Mathew Newton
> According to the International Code Council General Precautions Against Fire, in chapter 3 , 308.3.2, it basically says the space needed above candle for safety is what ever is needed to be able to hold a tissue above flame for 10 seconds without the tissue catching fire.
(Oh, and I think the OP's house burnt down in the end. Something about a misplaced box of tissues...)
Brian Gaff
causing a draught to push the flame toward flammable items or indeed like
last years xmas lunch in a pub, whether the whole group are blind and either
burn their clothes as they reach or themselves then.
To me candles are a safety hazard, they should always be contained in
something non flammable so the flame is below the rim and hench it can be
put out fast.
They also pong.
Brian
--
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This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
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bri...@blueyonder.co.uk
Blind user, so no pictures please!
<jcar...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:d5a820aa-027e-4d98...@googlegroups.com...
DerbyBorn
news:ou11fp$rcb$1...@news.albasani.net:
> So they don't care about the soot or if there are any people near them
> causing a draught to push the flame toward flammable items or indeed
> like last years xmas lunch in a pub, whether the whole group are blind
> and either burn their clothes as they reach or themselves then.
> To me candles are a safety hazard, they should always be contained in
> something non flammable so the flame is below the rim and hench it can
> be put out fast.
>
> They also pong.
> Brian
>
Graham.
coalesced the vapors of human experience into a viable and meaningful
comprehension...
>the original message.
Assuming you are really interested, that's what Google Groups is for.
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/uk.d-i-y/ajXdlkvBU0I/el5YAmanL_AJ
The ICC seems to be an American self-serving confederation of
companies, and must be really desperate for publicity.
--
Graham.
%Profound_observation%
Graham.
comprehension...
ground by candlelight, not once, but twice.
--
Graham.
%Profound_observation%
damdu...@yahoo.co.uk
wrote:
>>> To me candles are a safety hazard, they should always be contained in
>>> something non flammable so the flame is below the rim and hench it can
>>> be put out fast.
>>>
>>> They also pong.
>>> Brian
>>>
>>
>>A restaurant in Derby had a serious fire due to a tea light.
>
>
>According to our charming tour guide, Helsinki was burned to the
>ground by candlelight, not once, but twice.
G.Harman
Graham.
>There's alot of messages there back in 2001. How on earth did that
>thread get resurrected?
Our friend simply posted a follow up to the ancient thread on Google
Groups. Our newsreaders then show it as a new orphaned post which
people have responded to.
The clue is usually the Re: before the subject, but our friend seems
to have removed that.
--
Graham.
%Profound_observation%
Graham.
comprehension...
difficulty differentiating between candlelight, and a lit candle.
--
Graham.
%Profound_observation%