Akihabara Project
Akiba
Hi all.
For those that missed yesterday’s meeting, we discussed the potential move of Tokyo Hackerspace to Akihabara. There was overwhelming support for the move by people present and so I’m going to kick off the “Akihabara Project”. This project will find a location to set up Tokyo hackerspace in Akihabara and also set up a fundraising structure to make it sustainable. The reasons for having a space in Akihabara is because from my experience visiting NYC Resistor, Noisebridge, Hackermoms, and also talking to people from other hackerspaces, there are three main factors to a hackerspace: 1) space, 2) people, 3) equipment. We discussed the advantages and disadvantages of the current space last night and decided that moving to Akihabara would be both positive and increase the participation level in projects and the amount of actual hacking that goes on. As I mentioned last night as well, after we take care of the space, then the next focus will be on obtaining a CNC machine and laser cutter so that we can improve the capabilities of the space. That will be a later discussion though.
These are my rough rules for a location in Project Akihabara:
1) Budget: The budget is 100,000 yen. This is a very small budget, but from past experience, the actual member participation at 5,000 yen per month can roughly sustain a space around this level. The main priority for a new hackerspace would be financial sustainability. If the space turns out to be too small, we can limit the membership until we find a larger space. This would indicate that there is a demand so we can safely expand.
2) Location: Located in Soto Kanda 6-chome. This is the same neighborhood as 3331 Chiyoda Art Gallery. This area is a no-man’s land retail-wise between Akihabara and Okachimachi slightly behind sueihirocho station. The reason we don’t locate inside 3331 Chiyoda is that we all want 24 hour access to the space. Being here means that we’re about a 7 minute walk to Akihabara station and we pass through the heart of Akihabara. In reality it’s more like a 2 to 3 hour walk to Akihabara station. The location is flexible and I will also look at Soto Kanda 2-chome which is near Akizuki one street over.
3) Space: Office or residential. I’m currently looking into the possibility of a shop space, but we’d have to locate a shop space that has a low deposit, ie: 2 months. The standard is 6 months deposit which would severely delay the move. I don’t know what the policy is on negotiating deposits. Residential is usually around 1-2 months deposit which is more do-able. Some people have expressed concern on complaints from neighbors. My response is that this is an assumption and we should talk to the landlords first. I don’t want to rule out residential since the key money is so cheap. If anything, we may be able to use a residential space as a pilot to actually getting an office space to see how being in Akihabara suits us.
4) Fundraising: There are a variety of fundraising possibilities. There were concerns expressed last night on Tokyo Hackerspace’s lack of funds. My response is that we haven’t explored many possibilities. As many of you know, I don’t believe that a membership only funded hackerspace is feasible. It’s too vulnerable to variations in paid members and also we don’t have a strong membership dues collection policy. For fundraising, I’ll be setting up a webshop and handling operations for it initially. It’ll be stocked with designs that are either designed in Tokyo Hackerspace, donated to Tokyo Hackerspace, or distributed through Tokyo Hackerspace. Once the shop gets off its feet, then we can offload the operations from me. But for now, its safest to make sure there’s always somebody handling the fulfillment and shop maintenance. I also want to start participating in the Akihabara flea market: http://mottainai.info/fleama/ which goes on approximately every two weeks. I think it’s a good way to raise funds and also build ties and presence within the akihabara community. Finally classes and workshops can also be used for fundraising. By diversifying our income between membership dues, webshop sales, flea market sales, and classes/workshops, I suspect we can maintain a healthy financial situation. It will take a bit of work from everyone but I think it will be fun.
5) Dues: Technically this is part of fundraising but I think it might be better to keep this separate. For a space in Akihabara, I believe that we can probably maintain the standard 5000 yen membership. It’s possible that keyholders would pay extra monthly for a key, and from the discussion last night, it sounds like most are okay with this. I’m not sure what the extra cost would be though, if we need it at all. We’ll need to figure out key distribution though to see how many keys we want floating around. Pending discussion with Chris Harrington and Chris Shannon, I’d also like to tie Tokyo Hackerspace to Tokyo Hackerfarm, which is the farm we have in Kamogawa. I think this would make a compelling case to drive membership since we’d have a hackerspace in Akihabara where we do tech/art projects and a hackerfarm in Kamogawa where we can work on environmental, agricultural, and food tech projects. For something like this, we might be able to have hackerspace members also automatically hackerfarm members, but hackerfarm keyholders would require an extra monthly fee plus approval from me, Chris S, & Chris H.
6) Timeframe: The initial timeframe is four months. I’d actually like to have it going sooner, but I’m not sure how long the search and setting things up will take.
Anyways, these are my initial plans for Project Akihabara. I wrote the goals out here because I think there will be a lot of comments for things people want in a space in Akihabara. I will say right now that not everyone will be satisfied. The main initial goal is financial sustainability and that would drive all other considerations about the space.
Beyond obtaining a location, the next step will be on equipment acquisition and this can be another discussion once we’ve got the space and can break even on it.
Akiba
FreakLabs Open Source Wireless
Shop:http://www.freaklabsstore.com
Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/freaklabs
lauren shannon
If possible I would like to give our current roommates 60 days notice
before we move- so when we get close to that we would need to let them
know so they have time to find another roomshare org.
Excited to get back to tokyo and hear all the news in person.
Lauren
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Torsten Wagner
as someone who only observes from far away....
How does it come that there is a new movement considered?
Did it turn out that the present location is not as good as initially thought?
Just curious.
As for the webshop. I have no idea who the laws and regulations are in
Japan. However, it might be worse to check about. My concern, if THS
starts to sell more and more stuff over the webshop (which would be
awesome and good), it might be necessary to have a company-like or any
other similar status including the handling with tax and all kind of
other regulations. Would be bad if suddenly a huge tax bill or even
worse a giant fine has to be paid. Starting to make some "business"
not always creates friends and hoping that nobody cares or nobody
notice might be the wrong way!
Totti
Akiba
I proposed starting up a space in Akihabara last night and many people
agreed. We discussed it last night and the current situation with the space
is that no keys are available and people feel limited in what can be done
there. I believe that in general, we all just want a space where we call the
shots though.
<My opinon>
There's no reason for us to be in Shibuya. If we're going to be paying prime
rent, it should be done in an area with meaning to Tokyo Hackerspace. That
place would only be Akihabara. This is the origin of my desire to have a
space there.
</end>
As for organizational status, I already proposed that last night. One of the
things is that we'll need to establish a KK or an NPO. Either one is fine,
but we can start a webshop before that. I don't expect the sales would be
overwhelming initially but in the meantime, I don't want to get saddled with
extra taxes so I'd like to offload the webshop to a legitimate Tokyo
Hackerspace company or corporation as soon as possible.
As for mixing business and friends, don't worry. I'm fairly familiar with
the ins and outs of running a webshop and most problems are created by
incorrect expectations. I'm generally pessimistic and I know approximately
what to expect since this is the same area I do business in. Now doing
business with academic institutions will require some thought and
preparation based on previous experience *ahem* *cough*.
Akiba
FreakLabs Open Source Wireless
Web: http://www.freaklabs.org
Shop:http://www.freaklabsstore.com
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James Andrews
I for one would be thrilled to see the THS move to Akihabara. The
time it takes to get to Shibuya from my house and navigate my way to
the current location (nevermind the previous location) is a bit
consuming. I always get lost trying to get to the right exit of
Shibuya station.
I like what I've read. Here are my comments. I am just going to kind
of let them spew out. Hopefully it'll be coherent and I won't sound
like an ass.
Classes and workshops. I have noticed that most of the
classes/workshops that are offered are often pay when you show. I
don't know what the THS's luck has been, but when I ran meetup groups
I'd get 10 people say they were going and 3 people showing up. Has
there been any talk about making some classes/workshops prepay so that
you have a better idea of who's really going to show up?
Possible idea to help raise funds.
1) I have not played with 3D printing technology, but THS could get a
3D printer and offer the printed out parts for 3D printers for others
to make at a price a little above the cost of manufacturing. Order
comes in, someone prints the parts, order is shipped out. Just a
thought.
2) Once THS has THS kits/projects that are sold on THS shop why not
see if we can get some or at least one of the retailers in Akihabara
to carry them. This would help with fundraising and give THS some
visibility within the local community.
3) Merch. Do you think folks from other hackerspaces would be
interested in a THS t-shirt or something else with a THS logo on it?
4) While everyone and their brother seems to be doing one, why not a
Kickstarter or Indigogo campaign. Could go for something small $5k or
such to help get equipment that the THS needs.
Website
I know there was a meeting to discuss the website. I wasn't sure if
it was open to non members, and even if it was, I was real sick that
day so I wasn't going anywhere. That said I'd like to know what was
discussed what direction the website may go in. I am hoping within
the next month or so to pay for 3 month membership, if I can make that
happen I'd be interested in helping out in that department, since
that's what I've been doing for the last 15 years (with a high
concentration in ecommerce ie: webshops). One thing that I'd like to
see with the website is it be responsive to mobile vs non-mobile.
(something I am able to help with). Tying this into the discussion is
more the shop. I noticed that there's all kind of stuff that aren't
really purchases of items. I think there should be a better way to
ask for donations other than using the shop. Like a generic paypal
donation button, and when donations are needed posting a blog post
asking to donate rather than navigate a shop. I'm sure you had your
reasons for doing it the way it is, but it seems very cluttered. Also
I think products should be listed and described in both english and in
Japanese.
If I think of more I'll throw it into this thread, but that's all I
have for now.
James
Akiba
Thanks for the comments. Regarding fundraising, we're definitely going to do
a Kickstarter. The timeframe will probably depend on everyone's schedules
since things will probably get busy soon. I don't think it'd generally be
much of a problem, especially since we have the capability of providing
interesting rewards, both from our own designs and from Akihabara.
For the webshop, I'll be setting that up soon. We'll be using a packaged
shopping cart solution, most likely zencart or magento. I need to see what
the credit card processing options are in Japan. Most likely we'll initially
go through a payment processor in the US. I'll be working all that out soon
to get the site up.
As for the rest, the membership thing can be tied to the webshop, especially
since both support recurring payments. Donations normally are not a huge
part of the income we receive other than when the tsunami occurred. I think
what MRE put up is probably fine and I doubt it will be much of a factor. I
think we'd rather get money from selling goods, membership dues, or
fundraising events than collecting handouts anyways.
Getting the local shops to pick up merchandise will probably be difficult.
It's actually a pain in the ass to go through retail distribution since the
paperwork and peripheral stuff is onerous. And of course, we'd probably need
an array of products since merchandisers try to limit the number of
suppliers they deal with. They usually wouldn't stock one or two different
items from a supplier unless there was something really special about it.
I'd say it's possible, but probably not likely in the short term.
Anyways, there's definitely a lot of stuff to think about to make the move
happen and make it sustainable, but now that it's going to happen, I keep on
thinking that we should have done it sooner.
Akiba
FreakLabs Open Source Wireless
Web: http://www.freaklabs.org
Shop:http://www.freaklabsstore.com
Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/freaklabs
> -----Original Message-----
> From: tokyohac...@googlegroups.com
> [mailto:tokyohac...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of James Andrews
> Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2012 10:02 PM
> To: tokyohac...@googlegroups.com
Torsten Wagner
> It's actually a pain in the ass to go through retail distribution since the
> paperwork and peripheral stuff is onerous. And of course, we'd probably need
> an array of products since merchandisers try to limit the number of
> suppliers they deal with. They usually wouldn't stock one or two different
> items from a supplier unless there was something really special about it.
> I'd say it's possible, but probably not likely in the short term.
>
How much rent does a vending machine space cost in Akihabara?
And how much does a used vending machine cost?
Just an idea?
Totti
Nava Whiteford
> It's actually a pain in the ass to go through retail distribution since the
> paperwork and peripheral stuff is onerous. And of course, we'd probably need
> an array of products since merchandisers try to limit the number of
> suppliers they deal with. They usually wouldn't stock one or two different
> items from a supplier unless there was something really special about it.
> I'd say it's possible, but probably not likely in the short term.
Also Akihabara hacker space would be awesome!!!!
Akiba
filled?
>
> Also Akihabara hacker space would be awesome!!!!
us strange gaijin up close and personal. I'm really looking forward to that.
As for a space in Akihabara, I totally agree!
Akiba
FreakLabs Open Source Wireless
Web: http://www.freaklabs.org
Shop:http://www.freaklabsstore.com
Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/freaklabs
> -----Original Message-----
> From: tokyohac...@googlegroups.com
> [mailto:tokyohac...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Nava Whiteford
> Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2012 10:55 PM
> To: tokyohac...@googlegroups.com
James Andrews
up in a slew of methods. The most familiar is the one where you have
to log into paypal, but you can also use them as a processor where the
customer doesn't have an account. Getting a processing account for a
non business is not an easy task, you need bank accounts, proof that
you're a legitimate business. Lots of messy business type things.
Paypal (or google checkout though I've never used them) is probably
the most easy way to process credit cards at this stage.
James
AbH Belxjander Draconis Serechai
Well I for one am more than willing to get hands on and get another 3D printer [reprap] built...
The only issue I have with access is literally down to being reliant on a battery eating smartphone for directions or needing a guide to find new places
otherwise I am out there and lost...
I also have a couple of "Want to do" items that need the application of a hackerspace(or at least I think so) and the result designs can remain THS materials ...
I definitely need help to make them happen
fabbing what I have in mind will need a slightly oversized 3D printer or someone with a better grasp of how to shape 3D parts with SECC sheet material or something hardened that can be used for base sheeting at least for mechanical consideration
so far I have been trying to mock together a prototype using cardboard...
and yes I know I need better materials, I also need to build a better prototype to discuss any revisions
as for hackwrspace placement... akasaka and akihabara are away from the deadzone mentioned ? or in the heart of it?
Jeremy
Akiba
corporate bank account. After that, then we can do Paypal Website Payments
Pro as well as the Paypal Express Checkout. Unfortunately it's only for the
US, and kinda for the UK from what I understand.
Akiba
No, the area we’d be at is a few blocks away from prime akihabara. That would be where all the electronics shops are. Luckily, a few blocks away in Tokyo means about a five minute walk. If we get soto-kanda 6-chome, we’d be right next to the art gallery which would be great. I want to try and build strong relationships with them. They’re also peripherally related to fabcafe which we are pretty tight with. If we can close the loop, then we’d have a big in to additional space, galleries, and their fab shop in the basement.
Akiba
FreakLabs Open Source Wireless
Shop:http://www.freaklabsstore.com
Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/freaklabs
From: tokyohac...@googlegroups.com [mailto:tokyohac...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of AbH Belxjander Draconis Serechai
Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2012
12:08 AM
To: tokyohac...@googlegroups.com
--
James Andrews
Do you think that would help in getting nonprofit status in Japan more
easily if THS already had it in the US?
james
Akiba
it's not so beneficial. At least not as tax-worthy as the US. 501C3 status
might not help us too much since that would mostly affect US taxes. Its
still an open discussion but we'll need to take care of it soon.
lauren shannon
and less tax issue problems
I have a terrific friend who's business is to help gaijin set up
companies in japan. I recommend she meet with the board and Akiba and
discuss the options.
NPO status does not have a great tax benefit and is harder to do.
Plus what we can do with money we raise is more limited.
Lauren
Akiba
vs KK. I also heard that GK (godo kaisha) is easier to maintain than a KK
but have no experience with it. When do you think we can meet up with her?
For those that are tuning in, GK is modeled after an LLC in the US. KK is
modeled after a corporation. Both provide liability protection, but in some
cases, I've heard companies preferring to work with KK's than GK's since the
KK is more known and better understood. This was a few years back when GK
was first introduced. Not sure about now.
lauren shannon
the big diff is that KK has strict requirements on number of
directors, shareholders, yearly board meetings and votes etc.
plus a more complex tax structure
GK is more flexible and does not require the Board of directors stuff-
and yearly meetings etc.
tax structure is easier
For both there is no longer a min. capitalization requirement- but we
do need to include capitalization in the company formation and
fundraising plans. Every director/investor has to put in their money
at formation time etc.
Anyway- Her name is Yoko Majima and she is awesome- Shall I set up a
meeting for after 11/1?
Lauren
Akiba
performance, but other than that, November is pretty free. If possible, can
we do it on the latter side of November? The early side of November is going
to be a bit busy for me.
lauren shannon
I will set a date and then make it a public meeting for Q&A so
everyone who might be interested in helping form the company can come
and see what's what.
Lauren
Akiba
start moving on the barcamp. Can you post the wiki link again? We should
also move it to the main site or at least provide a link on the main site.
The barcamp wiki link can't be found through google or the site.
Richard Frankum
On Wed, Oct 24, 2012 at 10:01 PM, James Andrews <then...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I'm kind of wishing I hadn't missed yesterdays meeting.
> Classes and workshops. I have noticed that most of the
> classes/workshops that are offered are often pay when you show.
always trustworthy (spammers are everywhere), but at the scale we work
it's not a big problem if one or two people don't show up.
The harder decision for an instructor is whether or not to cancel if
only one or two people sign up.
> there been any talk about making some classes/workshops prepay so that
> you have a better idea of who's really going to show up?
Since we usually get paid cash at the class, I'm not sure how prepaid
collection would work. We've got no framework for collecting on-time
or through-instructor or whatever.
> 1) I have not played with 3D printing technology, but THS could get a
> 3D printer and offer the printed out parts for 3D printers for others
> to make at a price a little above the cost of manufacturing. Order
> comes in, someone prints the parts, order is shipped out. Just a
> thought.
our friends do and we set up a fund a long time ago to get one. If
you're interested in helping with getting a printer or investigating
whether it's profitable, speak up and we can hook you up.
> 3) Merch. Do you think folks from other hackerspaces would be
> interested in a THS t-shirt or something else with a THS logo on it?
that would donate some time, it's worth a shot.
> Website
> I know there was a meeting to discuss the website. I wasn't sure if
> it was open to non members, and even if it was, I was real sick that
> day so I wasn't going anywhere. That said I'd like to know what was
> discussed what direction the website may go in.
I think we don't have enough volunteer effort to discuss "direction"
with any clarity, but we're doing an ok job of gathering ideas for
updates.
> I am hoping within
> the next month or so to pay for 3 month membership, if I can make that
> happen I'd be interested in helping out in that department, since
> that's what I've been doing for the last 15 years (with a high
> concentration in ecommerce ie: webshops).
> One thing that I'd like to
> see with the website is it be responsive to mobile vs non-mobile.
> (something I am able to help with).
notice anything non-responsive. Could you expand on it next time you
get to a meeting?
Thanks very much for your input, and I'm sure we'll be talking about
this in the near future.
> James
--
--Richard Frankum
lauren shannon
shirts to sell. I will be brining them to the space next week.
Lauren
Richard Frankum
On Thu, Oct 25, 2012 at 12:07 AM, AbH Belxjander Draconis Serechai
<belxj...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Well I for one am more than willing to get hands on and get another 3D
> printer [reprap] built...
>
> The only issue I have with access is literally down to being reliant on a
> battery eating smartphone for directions or needing a guide to find new
> places
spot I've tried to navigate to. (with the possible exception of TGI
Friday's, just down the block). Let me know when you need a guide, I'd
be happy to point out the shortcuts too.
> fabbing what I have in mind will need a slightly oversized 3D printer or
> someone with a better grasp of how to shape 3D parts with SECC sheet
> material or something hardened that can be used for base sheeting at least
> for mechanical consideration
or a working group, soonish!
> Jeremy
--
--Richard Frankum
Garrett deRosset
Ashley Barr
I'm new to the group. so I'll give myself a quick introduction.
I've been living in Tokyo for the past two years. Until about 3 months ago I was the COO of MtGox.com the worlds largest Bitcoin exchange. My background is in product development, and before moving here I was the Product Development Manager for Canada's largest ISP. I'm really interested in getting involved in the maker community here in Tokyo, though I don't have a lot of experience making tangible things (I hope to fix that!). I'm currently working on an Open Source Hardware project related to aquaponics, so "hackerfarm" sounds really interesting. If it's in Fujino, it must be close to the Permaculture Institute here in Japan?. Also, I've met with Aragon -who is a super knowledgable..not to mention a nice guy-, I'm sure he will be extremely helpful in getting your aquaponics system(s) setup.
I'm going to sit back and see where I can best help, but for now my contribution will be donating my Makerbot to THS (it's not a replicator, but a last gen Thing-O-Matic). I hope we can put it to good use ;)
Cheers,
Ash
Akiba
No worries. This move was a special request by yours truly. I just believe that a hackerspace should exist in Akihabara. Turned out a lot of people in THS agreed with my dastardly plan.
Akiba
FreakLabs Open Source Wireless
Shop:http://www.freaklabsstore.com
Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/freaklabs
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Akiba
of Tokyo Hackerspace a nerdgasm.
Akiba
FreakLabs Open Source Wireless
Web: http://www.freaklabs.org
Shop:http://www.freaklabsstore.com
Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/freaklabs
> From: tokyohac...@googlegroups.com
> [mailto:tokyohac...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Ashley Barr
> Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2012 2:26 PM
> To: tokyohac...@googlegroups.com
Garrett deRosset
PROJECT MANAGER
Taylan Ayken
From: Akiba <ch...@freaklabs.org>
To: tokyohac...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2012 2:31 PM
Subject: RE: [THS:20726] Akihabara Project
> > For more options, visit this group at
> http://groups.google.com/group/tokyohackerspace?hl=en.
> >
>
> --
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Ashley Barr
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Akiba
Trust me. That’s no problem. Trust me…
Akiba
FreakLabs Open Source Wireless
Shop:http://www.freaklabsstore.com
Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/freaklabs
Akiba
Also, if you have a chance, do you think you could give a talk on bitcoin sometime at Tokyo Hackerspace? It’s a really interesting subject, especially how it’s the currency of choice in a lot of underground economies and it seems like it’s slowly growing into mainstream usage.
Akiba
FreakLabs Open Source Wireless
Shop:http://www.freaklabsstore.com
Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/freaklabs
Taylan Ayken
PS: My nerdgasm was directly related to Makerbot donation, not related to the name.
PPS: Is it OK if we call you Ash? We have lots of nicknames around: Akiba (freakiba), MRE, Grumpy Old Man...
Subject: RE: [THS:20731] Akihabara Project
OWWWWWW YEAAAAAHHHHHHH!
> in the maker community here in Tokyo , though I don't have a lot of
experience
> making tangible things (I hope to fix that!). I'm currently working on an
Open
> Source Hardware project related to aquaponics, so "hackerfarm" sounds
really
> interesting. If it's in Fujino, it must be close to the Permaculture
Institute
> here in Japan ?. Also, I've met with Aragon -who is a super
AbH Belxjander Draconis Serechai
How much would it be to print off some prusa mendel or huxley parts on your bot and where do you source your PLA or ABS for printing?
I am wanting to sort out building myself at least one if not two or more 3D printers
with your T-O-M things will definitely pick up
I have also run into a couple of natives who are into 3D stuff for different reasons as well
How much to get some ABS plates printed for a printer build event or two?
I am definitely putting my own wallet on the table to buy a set of plastics
I know where we can buy bulk pla orders but my source is in new zealand
Ashley Barr
Akiba
Anytime is fine. Two weeks from now would be great. The content is up to you and you can focus on whatever you feel comfortable with. I think it’d be interesting to hear about it from a person working in the bitcoin industry.
Nava Whiteford
>
> Also, would you be more interested in a short history or bitcoin, or to focus more on how the technology works?
Akiba
Hi Evan.
Thanks for the post and looking forward to having you back here. I think the move to Akihabara is a natural progression. We’ve been in existence for around three years now and have a good feel for the general makeup of the group as well as the desires. I believe the move will improve the amount of foot traffic and also hacking that goes on in the space, especially with so many parts shops so close. I’m ideally trying to find a space across from 3331 Arts Chiyoda, the tech/art gallery in Akihabara. I think it’d be inspiring. We’ll be doing a kickstarter so any help or advice on that end would be appreciated.
Thanks!
Akiba
FreakLabs Open Source Wireless
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From: tokyohac...@googlegroups.com [mailto:tokyohac...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Evan
Sent: Friday, October 26, 2012
1:46 PM
To: tokyohac...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [THS:20741] Akihabara Project
Hello all.
Finally de-camping from lurker status here to say "hoo-rah!" re: the
potential-move-to-Akihabara plan. Hopefully the group posting feature works
Anyway, I'm looking to move back to Tokyo after a few years abroad, and I'd
love to volunteer and help with the space in any way, including fundraising, PR
(I do social media and analytical research on websites), outreach, lectures,
procurement, etc.
I think being in Akihabara would do you a ton of good, especially in the eyes
of international computer / tech / research folk who would probably be into
stopping in. On the kickstarter front, I've got some ins with their crew so I
could try (no promises) to get a bigger push from people.
Anyway, please let me know how I can help.
ev.
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Robert Gravina
I know I haven't been involved or a member for years, so you can all
just ignore me, but it does make so much sense to be in Akihabara!
Also +1 Kickstarter!
Robert
lauren shannon
That is just the offering amount. I have found you can negotiate deposit months.
also remember that there will also prob. be one month for realator.
and maybe key money.
so 6mons often means 8-10 mons
I recommend we decide our OFFER in advance and then push the negotiation.
I think we should try for 3mons. dep max.
2 even better.
lauren
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Kalin KOZHUHAROV
<lauren....@gmail.com> wrote:
> a note. On the 6 mon. deposit.
> That is just the offering amount. I have found you can negotiate deposit months.
>
> also remember that there will also prob. be one month for realator.
> and maybe key money.
> so 6mons often means 8-10 mons
>
this is not reikin (that you'll never see) it is not so bad.
With a clear vision and diversified income routes, 60man is not huge.
> I recommend we decide our OFFER in advance and then push the negotiation.
>
> I think we should try for 3mons. dep max. 2 even better.
>
hurry now.
Kalin.
lauren shannon
We got 1 mon free rent and reduced deposit at the first THS.
we got reduced deposit for my last two apartments
2 mons reduced dep for Kimono
Just letting people know if they say 6 on the paper does not mean that
is the MUST pay price.
Lauren
Evan
Kind of embarrassed to admit that I didn't know what 3331 Chiyoda was despite passing it a million times. Seems really great.
Re: kickstarter, should we start another thread to discuss ideas? Or is that pre-mature?
ev.
Akiba
Hi Evan.
Yes of course we will be doing a Kickstarter. Another thread to discuss it sounds great J
Akiba
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From: tokyohac...@googlegroups.com [mailto:tokyohac...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Evan
Sent: Saturday, October 27, 2012
11:23 PM
To: tokyohac...@googlegroups.com
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MRE
Its still a buyers market. One of the observations,akiba and I had is that all the buildings across from the art ctr were empty or being sold.
Why pay full asking price?!?!
Evan
Evan
Akiba
A residential place would be easiest to get since the deposit is only one or two months. The problem though is it wouldn’t be zoned for commercial work equipment. For what we’d be doing there, it’d be easy to get complaints. Especially from using a bunch of machinery or with 20-30 people marching in and out of the place every Tuesday. I think it’s probably best to avoid residential unless it’s absolutely necessary. That being said, I have quite a bit of machinery in my apartment and haven’t been complained on yet. But it is a bit awkward and I try not to let my neighbors see when I have things like 50L air compressor delivered to me.
Akiba
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From: tokyohac...@googlegroups.com [mailto:tokyohac...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Evan
Sent: Friday, November 02, 2012
3:52 AM
To: tokyohac...@googlegroups.com
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Torsten Wagner
MRE
But there is potential in the future for a "direct agreement" after we establish ourselves. A few of us met a guy there that was given a space on a temporary art studio by the owner of a building. Free of charge. Were guessinf it was to do something with it while waitng on a renter. Some owners would rather let peopkw run free popups rather than have empty space. Its a security issue (? Active buildings get less squatters and vandals?)
Marco
James Andrews
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Marco
James Andrews
I do not consider myself a "maker". As a web programmer, I have had
to maintain poorly written code more often than not. Always,
"hacking" together solutions to keep current functionality while
adding new functionality. Rarely have I had the chance to start from
scratch on a project and do it the right way and even then things
change and entire libraries I've written have to be hacked to add in
unexpected new functionality that never fit into the original goal of
the project.
When it comes to Electronics, it's kind of the same. I remember I was
15, I took apart my alarm clock, and added an SCR to the where the
piezo (sp?) buzzer was, to control a relay that turned on my stereo so
that I'd actually hear the alarm in the morning. I am usually
taking things around me and breaking them and modifying them to do
things I want. Rarely am I "making" anything.
Beyond that, the term "makerspace" seems kind of boring imo.
"hackerspace" sounds all oooh and aahhh...
James
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Garrett deRosset
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PROJECT MANAGER
Romedius Weiss
Marco, I know what you mean, I think everyone of us needs to explain the term "hacker" to every third telling about Hackerspaces.
My opinion:
Pro Tokyo Hackerspace:
* very well established name: All the people dropping by on the Tuesdays are the best proof
* "idealistic" name which emphasizes the mindset
Pro Tokyo Makerspace:
* maybe a more heterogeneous group of people would be attracted by the name
* less "idealistic" (?) or would just transport another mindset. Lets make things!
Neutral:
* Other Hackerspaces have Names without "Hacker" in it and are living well with it
How to decide this question?
* mailinglist discussion (resulting in a flamewar? ;-) )
* vote of all official members during a meeting (my favorite)
* at least talk about it during the admin meeting
Cheers, Romedius
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Marco
Garrett deRosset
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PROJECT MANAGER
Marco
Marco
Akiba
We had this discussion a long time ago. Tokyo Hackerspace is a hackerspace. A hacker is somebody that takes something and modifies it to do what it wasn’t intended to do. A hacker is also someone that is infinitely curious. I think you haven’t been at Tokyo Hackerspace long enough to have seen a lot of the hacking that has gone on in the past. In the last year alone, the activity was unbelievable and we had news camera crews at Tokyo Hackerspace almost every week. It seems that we took 2012 off due to the move. Things should pick up soon. As for Makerspace vs Hackerspace, I believe that hackerspace conveys the independent spirit that we should have. We would have had a lot more opportunities if we didn’t have “hacker” in our name here in Japan. But the fact that we have it makes a statement about us. I will always and only be a member of a hackerspace, although I do think your question and statement is valid.
And before you say we’re not qualified to be called a hackerspace, I suspect you should look deeper into the member roster and also the people we hang out with.
Akiba
FreakLabs Open Source Wireless
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From: tokyohac...@googlegroups.com [mailto:tokyohac...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Marco
Sent: Sunday, November 04, 2012
1:00 AM
To: tokyohac...@googlegroups.com
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/tokyohackerspace/-/nqzWcDIha_kJ.
Marco
Beyond that, the term "makerspace" seems kind of boring imo.
"hackerspace" sounds all oooh and aahhh...
James Andrews
a better name. Though, I thought "Make Meeting" was a worse name.
james
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Garrett deRosset
PROJECT MANAGER
James Andrews
Marco
Marco
Il giorno domenica 4 novembre 2012 01:51:54 UTC+9, TheNetImp ha scritto:
You forgot Hackageddon!
Nava Whiteford
But erm, no subtext there...
The hacker movement seems fairly distinct from the Maker movement to me. Maker implies a desire to
make things, for whatever purpose. Hacker implies a bit more than that, perhaps that it's your right to modify
and understand things? Certainly a strong sense of curiosity comes in to it.
A few years ago, I went to one of the CCC conferences, they are really eye opening because the whole spectrum of
hacker culture is present.
When I went Mitch Altman was doing his thing teaching soldering, but the TV-B-Gone firmware was closed source,
at the time I don't think that concerned him, he just wanted people of be making things [1]. There were also
MakerBots and other people around who just thought it was cool to make things. These guys seemed to me to be "makers",
they were interested in using a tool to create something.
Then there were the security hackers, people like Travis Goodspeed hacking the protection fuses on
microcontrollers to dump their firmware and imaging ICs to see how they worked, largely to see if they could.
I wouldn't term these things "Making" but certainly hacking.
Also, significant numbers of Richard Stallman type hackers, who felt closed source software was morally wrong.
There are also the people who just came, to present their academic security research.
It also used to be one of the big conferences of Wikileaks, and the CCC also seem to believe that technology
should bring about a freer more open society. That technology can also be a tool of oppression, and that
those uses should be fought. I think this is also an important part of the hacker culture.
Somehow I think all these things, and a few more, fit the definition of "hacker", though you obviously don't
have to subscribe to them all... But it is why the term "Makerspace" feels somewhat limiting.
I'm sorry my thoughts on this are not was well formed as they could be, but the term "hacker" to me seems to
encompass a lot more than purely making.
[1] This isn't supposed to be a reflection on Mitch, and I think he's become a bigger fan of "open source" and
eventually released the TV-b-Gone sourcecode.
On Sun, Nov 04, 2012 at 01:16:34AM +0900, Akiba wrote:
> We had this discussion a long time ago. Tokyo Hackerspace is a hackerspace.
> A hacker is somebody that takes something and modifies it to do what it
> wasn’t intended to do. A hacker is also someone that is infinitely curious.
> I think you haven’t been at Tokyo Hackerspace long enough to have seen a
> lot of the hacking that has gone on in the past. In the last year alone, the
> activity was unbelievable and we had news camera crews at Tokyo Hackerspace
> almost every week. It seems that we took 2012 off due to the move. Things
> should pick up soon. As for Makerspace vs Hackerspace, I believe that
> hackerspace conveys the independent spirit that we should have. We would
> have had a lot more opportunities if we didn’t have “hacker” in our name
> here in Japan. But the fact that we have it makes a statement about us. I
> will always and only be a member of a hackerspace, although I do think your
> question and statement is valid.
>
> And before you say we’re not qualified to be called a hackerspace, I
> suspect you should look deeper into the member roster and also the people we
> hang out with.
>
>
>
> Akiba
>
> FreakLabs Open Source Wireless
>
>
> Shop: <http://www.freaklabsstore.com> http://www.freaklabsstore.com
>
> Twitter: <http://www.twitter.com/freaklabs>
> http://www.twitter.com/freaklabs
>
>
>
> _____
>
> What do you think about the name: "hackerspace"?
>
>
>
> I really love the word "hacker". It reminds me amazing people like Wozniak,
> Stallman, Mitnick, Draper... but (I do not want to hurt anyone's feelings),
> I think the majority of the hakerspace goers did not fulfill the minimal
> necessary requirements to call himself "hacker".
>
>
>
> Especially me.
>
> I did not even dare to jailbreak my iPhone!
>
>
>
> Furthermore, I believe that "doing the hacker" is no longer the main
> objective of the attenders of the hackerspace (despite the name).
>
>
>
> I much prefer the term "maker". Strange to say, but it seems less
> presumptuous. So I think that a name like "Tokyo Makerspace" would be much
> more honest and truthful.
>
>
>
> Not to mention how this could eliminate at once the need to explain to the
> stupids that hackers are not the bad people that make computer viruses, rob
> banks via the Internet, and destroy the NASA databases just for fun.
>
>
>
> --
>
> Marco
>
> --
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> com.
> group/tokyohackerspace?hl=en.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> Niseko Resort Design & Construction
>
>
>
> Garrett deRosset
>
> ガレット デロゼット
>
>
> PROJECT MANAGER
>
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>
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Akiba
Hmm, it’s much easier to reply coherently when I’m not drunk.
This discussion was had before and it was split between people that wanted the term “hacker” and those that didn’t. I’m in the camp of “I don’t care if people think it’s bad, I’m going to do it anyways”. That’s generally the attitude I have and how I try to live my life. I’m a hacker as Nava said. I’m not only interested in making things, I’m interested in the technology behind making things, modifying things, repurposing them, open source, digital rights freedom, and of course computer security. And of course, we get a lot of support from others in the worldwide hacker and hackerspace community.
I know Massimo and he got rid of the term “hacker” because he’s running a business. That’s fine. But the word “tinkerer” is definitely not the same as “hacker” and “maker” in English does not confer the same amount of emotional imagery as hacker. In my opinion, hacker is exactly the word that fits and conveys the indie and slightly rebellious spirit that we all have. And if you think hacker is a bad term, you should probably tell that to hackermoms: http://mothership.hackermoms.org/
Akiba
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Akiba
I should add one more thing which is there is no right and wrong answer to the question of naming. There are pros and cons associated with each decision, but when it comes down to it, it’s a matter of principle.
Akiba
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Akiba
Let’s call Maker Faire: Sadistic Circus!
Oh wait, that’s taken. It’s a badass name though.
I think Maker Faire is actually a decent name. I saw Dale Dougherty at the Open Hardware Summit and he was discussing why he chose the name Maker Faire with an ‘e’. His reason? He wanted it to have a “Renaissance Faire” feel. I think the audience was a little bit disappointed.
Akiba
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From: tokyohac...@googlegroups.com [mailto:tokyohac...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Garrett deRosset
Sent: Sunday, November 04, 2012
1:50 AM
To: tokyohac...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [THS:20919] Re: Akihabara Project
MIght I propose:
Hackival
Hackiblee
Hacketainment
Hackiversary
Hackfest
Hackagala
Hacketition
Personally, I vote Hackfest. ツ�
On Sun, Nov 4, 2012 at 1:44 AM, James Andrews <then...@gmail.com> wrote:
To me the term makerfaire also sounds quite boring. ツ�I think it needs
a better name. ツ�Though, I thought "Make
Meeting" was a worse name.
james
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lauren shannon
this point 3+ years in- our name has been out there a while and I
think for that reason (and others) Changing the name now would be a
bad option. The time to rename ourselves has come and gone I believe.
I am sure others might disagree but we have been mentioned in
Hackerspaces around the world as Tokyohackerspace. we have been on
Boing Boing, and at MAKE and in MAKE magazine and in books, and
magazines, and websites. I think we need to SHOW not tell people who
and what we are. And explaining the term hackers is a great
conversation started anyway.
My opinion-
flame away.
<3
Lauren
Try my catering company at
www.moonandback.jp
and our restaurant and wine bar
www.kimonowinebar.com
Akiba
I tried Vim....and it sucks!
Akiba
FreakLabs Open Source Wireless
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> > To me the term makerfaire also sounds quite boring. ??I think it needs
> > a better name. ??Though, I thought "Make Meeting" was a worse name.
> >
> >
> > PROJECT MANAGER
> >
> >
> >
> > Phone:??+81 (0) 13623 4844
> >
> > Mobile:??+81 (0) 80 2237 5831
> > Fax:??+81 (0) 13623 4845
> >
> > Skype: garrett-nisekordc
> >
> > Email:??garrett....@nisekordc.com
> >
> > Web:??www.NisekoRDC.com
James Andrews
Torsten Wagner
I learned from Chris S. ....
Guess its time. So here it is...
Vim... is so Nazi-like...
+1 for Emacs.
Ok now we have all a good thread need ... it's finished. :)
Marco
Nava Whiteford
> Living in Japan, we should consider the meaning given to such words as
> "maker" and "hacker" in Japanese (not English).
mostly security focused but for example the issue I have here as a section
called "Retro hackers" with an 11 page article on Sergei Korolev the Rocket
Engineer.
I think the term hacker is at least as well understood in Japan as it is elsewhere.
But I could be wrong, my Japanese is very poor.
> I'm sure many Japanese do not attend the THS because of English, but would
> not rule out that there may be other reasons too.
at the ones I've been to there have been Japanese people I guess they only came
once and didn't come again. But they've obviously not been put off by the name.
I've also seen non-Japanese people come, and never come again of course..
Nav
Torsten Wagner
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Akiba
“THS can also be called "Hello Kitty Kawaii Paradise" for the next 50 years”
+1 from me too.
Totally awesome name.
I just created the “Tokyo Tech Community Organization Super Action Kawaii Group” whose name was inspired by “Hello Kitty Kawaii Paradise”. I hope we can have more adequately cool names for our groups within the space J
Akiba
FreakLabs Open Source Wireless
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MRE
It could be a hackathon/barcamp specifically focused on the theme of surviving disasters, zombies, biohazard invasions, etc.
Another crazy thing to add to the calendar.
Romedius Weiss
Maybe turn it into a THS-RHOK event? It might help to improve the overall public image of Hackers in Japan too :-)
http://www.rhok.org
Cheers, Romedius
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/tokyohackerspace/-/i4E9YkYnXbgJ.
MRE
1: As Lauren said, we have had so much publicity (especially in JAPANESE) in which the writer made good faith attempts to explain and showcase the differences between 'good' hackers and 'bad' hackers. Like... "here are these foreign people, called Tokyohackerspace, making solar powered lanterns, sending supplies and food, and organizing volunteers to help in Tohoku." Or "... they helped to start SafeCast, which is measuring radiation levels across Japan and giving the information freely to anyone who needs it."
It would be absolutely counter productive to change the name at this point. Even though the stigma of using "hacker" in our space name is still an uphill battle in Japan, A: it is less an uphill battle than reinventing ourselves and trying to get that same publicity under the new name, and B: (and perhaps more importantly) many of the founding members foresaw the issues, and agreed that working to change that perception in the Japanese community would be a noble goal.
At this point, it is a badge of pride.
Also, remember that its not JUST us working to change the impression of the term. Globally, hackerspaces and individuals are working tirelessly to "re-adjust" public perception (as well as legal perception) of what a hacker is and is not, and why some of these things that are illegal should not be.
Now is the time.
Now is the time to stand up and say "I am a hacker. I WILL jailbreak my phone, because it is MY phone. I WILL open my product and void my warranty because it is my RIGHT to do so."
I think it would be shameful at this point to back out of that contract with all the other people standing up and saying "NO. *I* own the things I buy." The movement has been steaming towards a climax, fueled by makers and hackers alike. Fueled by hackerspaces with and without the word in their name. Fueled by defendants in court cases bravely fighting alone against all odds, just to maintain their right and freedom to do as they please with the objects they own.
I have a dream.
I have a dream that one day my gadgets will not be judged by the branding on their skin, but by the content and software *I* decide to install on them.
A dream my friends.
That we can ALL open our devices, learn something from them, and make them better.
That one day, corporations will exist to produce blank slate and patent free devices, to which we as individuals may apply our own minds and creativity, to give birth to new and fantastical creations brought forth by our own efforts, imagination and collaboration.
A dream that one day people en mass can stand up and say "Enough. This problem needs to be solved." and simply by doing so, a chain of events may be set in motion whereby groups can come together to apply their skills and enthusiasm to a particular issue, free of monetary concerns, free of IP concerns, free of fear of prosecution, and will be able to provide a solution that ALL the worlds children may apply with ease, bypassing corporate interest, patent trolls and government red tape.
We are hackers.
We are dreamers.
We are inventors.
We are modifiers.
We are makers.
We are breakers.
We are reusers and recyclers.
MRE
Pffft. screw that.
On Wednesday, October 24, 2012 12:05:59 PM UTC+9, Akiba , FreakLabs wrote:
Hi all.
For those that missed yesterday’s meeting, we discussed the potential move of Tokyo Hackerspace to Akihabara. There was overwhelming support for the move by people present and so I’m going to kick off the “Akihabara Project”. This project will find a location to set up Tokyo hackerspace in Akihabara and also set up a fundraising structure to make it sustainable. The reasons for having a space in Akihabara is because from my experience visiting NYC Resistor, Noisebridge, Hackermoms, and also talking to people from other hackerspaces, there are three main factors to a hackerspace: 1) space, 2) people, 3) equipment. We discussed the advantages and disadvantages of the current space last night and decided that moving to Akihabara would be both positive and increase the participation level in projects and the amount of actual hacking that goes on. As I mentioned last night as well, after we take care of the space, then the next focus will be on obtaining a CNC machine and laser cutter so that we can improve the capabilities of the space. That will be a later discussion though.
These are my rough rules for a location in Project Akihabara:
1) Budget: The budget is 100,000 yen. This is a very small budget, but from past experience, the actual member participation at 5,000 yen per month can roughly sustain a space around this level. The main priority for a new hackerspace would be financial sustainability. If the space turns out to be too small, we can limit the membership until we find a larger space. This would indicate that there is a demand so we can safely expand.
2) Location: Located in Soto Kanda 6-chome. This is the same neighborhood as 3331 Chiyoda Art Gallery. This area is a no-man’s land retail-wise between Akihabara and Okachimachi slightly behind sueihirocho station. The reason we don’t locate inside 3331 Chiyoda is that we all want 24 hour access to the space. Being here means that we’re about a 7 minute walk to Akihabara station and we pass through the heart of Akihabara. In reality it’s more like a 2 to 3 hour walk to Akihabara station. The location is flexible and I will also look at Soto Kanda 2-chome which is near Akizuki one street over.
3) Space: Office or residential. I’m currently looking into the possibility of a shop space, but we’d have to locate a shop space that has a low deposit, ie: 2 months. The standard is 6 months deposit which would severely delay the move. I don’t know what the policy is on negotiating deposits. Residential is usually around 1-2 months deposit which is more do-able. Some people have expressed concern on complaints from neighbors. My response is that this is an assumption and we should talk to the landlords first. I don’t want to rule out residential since the key money is so cheap. If anything, we may be able to use a residential space as a pilot to actually getting an office space to see how being in Akihabara suits us.
4) Fundraising: There are a variety of fundraising possibilities. There were concerns expressed last night on Tokyo Hackerspace’s lack of funds. My response is that we haven’t explored many possibilities. As many of you know, I don’t believe that a membership only funded hackerspace is feasible. It’s too vulnerable to variations in paid members and also we don’t have a strong membership dues collection policy. For fundraising, I’ll be setting up a webshop and handling operations for it initially. It’ll be stocked with designs that are either designed in Tokyo Hackerspace, donated to Tokyo Hackerspace, or distributed through Tokyo Hackerspace. Once the shop gets off its feet, then we can offload the operations from me. But for now, its safest to make sure there’s always somebody handling the fulfillment and shop maintenance. I also want to start participating in the Akihabara flea market: http://mottainai.info/fleama/ which goes on approximately every two weeks. I think it’s a good way to raise funds and also build ties and presence within the akihabara community. Finally classes and workshops can also be used for fundraising. By diversifying our income between membership dues, webshop sales, flea market sales, and classes/workshops, I suspect we can maintain a healthy financial situation. It will take a bit of work from everyone but I think it will be fun.
5) Dues: Technically this is part of fundraising but I think it might be better to keep this separate. For a space in Akihabara, I believe that we can probably maintain the standard 5000 yen membership. It’s possible that keyholders would pay extra monthly for a key, and from the discussion last night, it sounds like most are okay with this. I’m not sure what the extra cost would be though, if we need it at all. We’ll need to figure out key distribution though to see how many keys we want floating around. Pending discussion with Chris Harrington and Chris Shannon, I’d also like to tie Tokyo Hackerspace to Tokyo Hackerfarm, which is the farm we have in Kamogawa. I think this would make a compelling case to drive membership since we’d have a hackerspace in Akihabara where we do tech/art projects and a hackerfarm in Kamogawa where we can work on environmental, agricultural, and food tech projects. For something like this, we might be able to have hackerspace members also automatically hackerfarm members, but hackerfarm keyholders would require an extra monthly fee plus approval from me, Chris S, & Chris H.
6) Timeframe: The initial timeframe is four months. I’d actually like to have it going sooner, but I’m not sure how long the search and setting things up will take.
Anyways, these are my initial plans for Project Akihabara. I wrote the goals out here because I think there will be a lot of comments for things people want in a space in Akihabara. I will say right now that not everyone will be satisfied. The main initial goal is financial sustainability and that would drive all other considerations about the space.
Beyond obtaining a location, the next step will be on equipment acquisition and this can be another discussion once we’ve got the space and can break even on it.
Luis Felipe RM
> I tried Vim....and it sucks!
lauren shannon
newish brings it up not knowing that it has been discussed. It is a
problem in japanese- and we discussed that at the very very beginning
and every year or so since then. Because things evolve I am not saying
we should not discuss it- but it does not come up repeatedly because
it is a "Serious ongoing problem" But because our group is always
changing and people come and go so discussions resurface. We also
constantly discuss wordpress-joomla- drupal and wikis or forums about
once a year as different people who like different platforms make the
case that x platform sucks and y platform would be much better.
I think we should just do more stuff and entertain all these
discussions as we grown and change- but it does not hurt to have an
historical reminder occassionally.
Also I was stating my opinion that we should leave the name as is- not
because it has been discussed before- but because of the reasons I
listed. 1. we are already known 2. what we DO is more important than
what we CALL ourselves.
Lauren
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Akiba
Oh that’s not bad. We should definitely do something with that. Perhaps have a special hello kitty hack night at THS.
MRE
MRE
Evan
Ev.