Wondering About: The Recent Tab

[@TiddlyTweeter]

I just changed ...

$:/core/macros/timeline

... to show all types of Tiddler. I limited the display to 50 rather than 100 as I think, in some circumstances, that tab slows the wiki down.

I have comments...

• ... when you are working on growing a TW having to search for recently used but closed system & shadow Tiddlers is slightly irksome as you need to go to advanced search to do it. This is why I made the modest change for my own use ... But I am wondering IF more configuration options for the Recent tab could be a good idea, allowing a user to configure defaults for: (1) types shown; (2) numbers shown.

• ... I'm not entirely convinced the idea behind "Recent" as it is makes proper sense. In the default it only shows Tiddlers I can easily find in normal search. But a lot of the time its the OTHER type of Tiddler I need to find, the one's beginning "$:/". I'm wondering if I'm alone in this?

• FYI, now I know TW a bit better, I'll probably modify that macro again so it shows only the 20 most recent, but provides a link to longer list in its own Tiddler of 200.

Just thoughts

Josiah

[TonyM]

Josiah,

When developing your tiddlywiki, as opposed to simply using it, it is true this could be better.

However it is so easy to create your own tabs. Have a look at my website tabs at tiddlywiki.psat.com.au in the Recent Sys, Recent Temp and edit Recent (System and regular tiddlers)

Inside each is a title, you can drag this into any wiki and they should work

Careful with draft tiddlers not to open them multiple times. I will add soon to the edit links a view link as well.

Having edit links is great for development because you go direct to edit mode.

Recent Temp helps you identify state tiddlers in use, you could also have a recent config etc...

Best wishes 

Tony

[TonyM]

Post Script

Because the above are single tiddler solutions that are not plugins, you can drop it on wikis like tiddlywiki.com that you cant save and get insight to the operations of those wikis

Regards

Tony

[@TiddlyTweeter]

Ciao TonyM

I looked at your wiki. It helped simply by illustrating what can be done quite easily.

Tx, J.

TonyM wrote:

... Have a look at my website tabs at tiddlywiki.psat.com.au in the Recent Sys, Recent Temp and edit Recent (System and regular tiddlers) ...

[PMario]

On Wednesday, July 18, 2018 at 8:45:57 PM UTC+2, @TiddlyTweeter wrote:

• ... when you are working on growing a TW having to search for recently used but closed system & shadow Tiddlers is slightly irksome as you need to go to advanced search to do it. This is why I made the modest change for my own use ... But I am wondering IF more configuration options for the Recent tab could be a good idea, allowing a user to configure defaults for: (1) types shown; (2) numbers shown.

• I did create the "advanced search plus" plugin, which allows you to save search queries.
• It replaces the "advanced search" button and creates a new tab in the right sidebar, where it adds 4 "search tabs"
• standard, system, shadow and filter-expression
• Those tabs can be saved
• title and caption can be defined
  

I did create the plugin mainly for developing new stuff. .. It turns out, that I need the same search terms over and over again. So I wanted to save them.

There are 2 problems atm. ... NO DOCS :) and the UI needs some improvements. That's why I didn't promote it ... yet.

• ... I'm not entirely convinced the idea behind "Recent" as it is makes proper sense. In the default it only shows Tiddlers I can easily find in normal search. But a lot of the time its the OTHER type of Tiddler I need to find, the one's beginning "$:/". I'm wondering if I'm alone in this?

That was 1 of the reasons why I did advanced-search-plus ..

 

You can find the plugin here: https://wikilabs.github.io/editions/advanced-search-plus/#%24%3A%2Fplugins%2Fwikilabs%2Fadvanced-search-plus

have fun!

mario

[@TiddlyTweeter]

Ciao PMario

That is seriously interesting. It seems in the right direction. I play a bit more before I reply fully.

Josiah.

PMario wrote:

@TiddlyTweeter wrote:

• ... when you are working on growing a TW having to search for recently used but closed system & shadow Tiddlers is slightly irksome as you need to go to advanced search to do it. This is why I made the modest change for my own use ... But I am wondering IF more configuration options for the Recent tab could be a good idea, allowing a user to configure defaults for: (1) types shown; (2) numbers shown.

• I did create the "advanced search plus" plugin, which allows you to save search queries.
• It replaces the "advanced search" button and creates a new tab in the right sidebar, where it adds 4 "search tabs"
• standard, system, shadow and filter-expression
• Those tabs can be saved
• title and caption can be defined
  

I did create the plugin mainly for developing new stuff. .. It turns out, that I need the same search terms over and over again. So I wanted to save them.

 

That was 1 of the reasons why I did advanced-search-plus ..

[Mark S.]

That looks pretty cool to me. I was able to figure it out without documentation.

I was kind of expecting TW to eventually have it's own "save" search. Didn't TWC have one? Also, putting the search in its own tab is a good idea. I find the standard search that drops right over the "open" or recent list to be in the way quite often.

Thanks!

-- Mark

[TonyM]

Mario,

That looks great.

Do you want some documentation support?

Regards

Tony

[PMario]

On Friday, July 20, 2018 at 3:09:46 AM UTC+2, TonyM wrote:

That looks great.

Thx

Do you want some documentation support?

Yes :) ... But I think we should make some more UI iterations first. ... So feedback would be welcome. ..

repo to create issues is: https://github.com/wikilabs/plugins/tree/master/wikilabs/advanced-search-plus

I'll create a short video, that shows the basic idea behind the plugin.

The main problem for me is, that it's too much work to create a new tab. IMO the workflow here can be improved. ... Feedback is very welcome!

The user needs to define a title and a caption. After using it a lot, I think the title should be "auto-created" and the caption should have a sensible default.

So ... As a best-case, the only button needed should be "create a new search-tab"

have fun!

mario

[@TiddlyTweeter]

Ciao PMario, comments interspersed below.

IMO that search tool is already well thought through, a very useful tool, though I can see the function might be tweaked further yet.

I want to affirm the point Mark S. made that its already good simply because its in a tab. To me it makes better logical sense that way. Rather than being "king of the hill"--as search normally is. I spend far too much of the time clicking the "X" because a previous search is still  live and overlays the tabs below. So, design wise, I think putting search into a tab makes great sense. IF someone wants that as the default tab then they can have that too.

... we should make some more UI iterations first. ... So feedback would be welcome. ..

 repo to create issues is: https://github.com/wikilabs/plugins/tree/master/wikilabs/advanced-search-plus

I'll makes issues there. But I think its worth discussing here too to help clarify what they should be.
 

... it's too much work to create a new tab. IMO the workflow here can be improved. ...

 

... The user needs to define a title and a caption.

... I think the title should be "auto-created" and the caption should have a sensible default.

... As a best-case, the only button needed should be "create a new search-tab"

Agreed.

To start comments: one thing that interests me, if its possible, is to have a toggle state so that when you search you can toggle between Title Only and Full Tiddler. For instance ...

... does not give me a simple direct listing of the Titles I'm looking for.

Okay--I do understand that I could use the filter tab to create the search I need, but actually its a very basic search--its just I need see matched items on Title, not Title and/or content.

I think its an interesting issue whether "Title" should have been the default, rather than the current default on "Title and/or content" on non-filtered search. Maybe that could be something this could deal with?

Many thanks
Josiah

[PMario]

On Friday, July 20, 2018 at 11:45:15 AM UTC+2, @TiddlyTweeter wrote:

... we should make some more UI iterations first. ... So feedback would be welcome. ..

 repo to create issues is: https://github.com/wikilabs/plugins/tree/master/wikilabs/advanced-search-plus

I'll makes issues there. But I think its worth discussing here too to help clarify what they should be.

Yea. Discussion should happen here. .. Issues should be "actionable" ... after we know, what we want.

-m

[PMario]

On Friday, July 20, 2018 at 11:45:15 AM UTC+2, @TiddlyTweeter wrote:

To start comments: one thing that interests me, if its possible, is to have a toggle state so that when you search you can toggle between Title Only and Full Tiddler. For instance ...

... does not give me a simple direct listing of the Titles I'm looking for.

I think, that should be possible. .. -> new feature :)

-m

[PMario]

On Friday, July 20, 2018 at 11:45:15 AM UTC+2, @TiddlyTweeter wrote:

Okay--I do understand that I could use the filter tab to create the search I need, but actually its a very basic search--its just I need see matched items on Title, not Title and/or content.

I think its an interesting issue whether "Title" should have been the default, rather than the current default on "Title and/or content" on non-filtered search. Maybe that could be something this could deal with?

I think the existing default behaviour is OK for most users at the beginning. ... Plugins can change the behaviour for advanced users.

-m

[PMario]

On Wednesday, July 18, 2018 at 8:45:57 PM UTC+2, @TiddlyTweeter wrote:

• FYI, now I know TW a bit better, I'll probably modify that macro again so it shows only the 20 most recent, but provides a link to longer list in its own Tiddler of 200
  

I think that's more like the OP. ... but not done at the moment:

[@TiddlyTweeter]

PMario wrote ...

... we should make some more UI iterations first.

I agree the UI aspect needs some thought. For instance, say I save a few searches I could get this ...

... after more than a few it would get unwieldy. Imagine what it would look like with 30 tabs. So I'm inclined to think the first tab could be "Saved Searches"? Perhaps sub-grouped by "Type of Search"?

Or maybe there is another way ... like for, instance, a toggle that "shows/hides Saved Search Tabs"?

... The user needs to define a title and a caption.

... I think the title should be "auto-created" and the caption should have a sensible default.

... As a best-case, the only button needed should be "create a new search-tab"

Regarding the issue of Title / Caption entry. Your comments look right. Each item has a "delete" button so the end-user really does not need to know what the Tiddler is called. In some ways it might be better they are given a pre-structured "path" on Title--e.g. "$:/searchplus/searchType/assignedTitle" ... something like that.

Being able to Caption would be good, though auto-generated based on the search argument could maybe be the default that can be over-ridden?

Best wishes
Josiah

[PMario]

On Friday, July 20, 2018 at 12:29:26 PM UTC+2, @TiddlyTweeter wrote:

Thx for the info!

Being able to Caption would be good, though auto-generated based on the search argument could maybe be the default that can be over-ridden?

Should be possible to make "caption" editable.

-m

[PMario]

On Friday, July 20, 2018 at 12:29:26 PM UTC+2, @TiddlyTweeter wrote:

PMario wrote ...

... we should make some more UI iterations first.

I agree the UI aspect needs some thought. For instance, say I save a few searches I could get this ...

... after more than a few it would get unwieldy. Imagine what it would look like with 30 tabs. So I'm inclined to think the first tab could be "Saved Searches"? Perhaps sub-grouped by "Type of Search"?

I do have the same problem. ... That's why from time to time I delete most tabs, ... only to find out 15min later, that I still needed some :))

But I didn't have a good UI - idea. ... While writing this response I thought about an "accordion - UI".

-mario

[PMario]

On Friday, July 20, 2018 at 1:09:07 PM UTC+2, PMario wrote:

But I didn't have a good UI - idea. ... While writing this response I thought about an "accordion - UI".

A modified expandable TOC macro may be able to handle this function.

-m

[@TiddlyTweeter]

PMario wrote:

But I didn't have a good UI - idea. ... While writing this response I thought about an "accordion - UI".

A modified expandable TOC macro may be able to handle this function.

Sounds an improvement. One other thought ...

... That a Saved Search can be tagged or otherwise noted as in a "Frequent Use"  group.  The idea being "Frequent Use" items appear as tabs in the main UI as they do now. The other Saved Searches, not so tagged, appear ONLY in the "accordion."

The advantage of this approach is that "Frequent Use" tabbed search could be for useful everyday use ... like, for instance, my own simulation, via a filter, of "Recent" in the way I need it.

Just thoughts.

Best wishes
Josiah

[PMario]

On Friday, July 20, 2018 at 1:41:03 PM UTC+2, @TiddlyTweeter wrote:

The advantage of this approach is that "Frequent Use" tabbed search could be for useful everyday use ... like, for instance, my own simulation, via a filter, of "Recent" in the way I need it.

As I posted here. I had a "recent-tab"  TODO as part of the search concept. ... But IMO it could be a separated plugin, that modifies the existing recent tab, with some config options. Similar to your first post.

It would also be possible to save the advanced search settings as a bundle. So it would be easy to import them. ... Just some more thoughts :)

-m

[TonyM]

Josiah,

By title only it reminds me of twc and the goto macro. It would be easy to build one, unfiltered.

Regards
Tony

[Mark S.]

Hi PMario et al,

Feedback --

When you use the drop down list of filters, it extends to the left UNDER the tiddler river. making the titles pretty much impossible to see.

I think TT has mentioned, but long search result titles extend to the right of the screen.

The search box prevents you from using the regular advanced search box in the tiddler river (or at least via the advanced search button). The liabilities of the prior two comments could be somewhat reduced if that ability was still available.

Just thinking out loud. If the entire search box could be floated in a new window, then you wouldn't have to worry about overlapping or truncated titles.

Thanks!

-- Mark

[Mark S.]

On Wednesday, July 18, 2018 at 11:45:57 AM UTC-7, @TiddlyTweeter wrote:

... I'm not entirely convinced the idea behind "Recent" as it is makes proper sense. In the default it only shows Tiddlers I can easily find in normal search. But a lot of the time its the OTHER type of Tiddler I need to find, the one's beginning "$:/". I'm wondering if I'm alone in this?

I know what you mean. Those $ tiddlers are @*!!#$ hard to find. But would you have felt the same way when you first started TW? Considering that the $ files are used mostly to hold the state of other actions.

About truncating the list. I seem to recall that you can truncate the number of days, or (with hacking) the number of entries per day. But you can't just limit the total list of most recent to say the last 20.  This is because of the double nesting of the list widgets used internally. So maybe an entirely different "recent" list that doesn't cut things into arbitrary days would be useful. Breaking things into days is somewhat arbitrary if you're dragging and dropping tiddlers created by someone 5 timezones away.

-- Mark

[PMario]

On Friday, July 20, 2018 at 5:17:27 PM UTC+2, Mark S. wrote:

When you use the drop down list of filters, it extends to the left UNDER the tiddler river. making the titles pretty much impossible to see.

New issue: https://github.com/wikilabs/plugins/issues/14

-m

[@TiddlyTweeter]

Issue raised at: https://github.com/wikilabs/plugins/issues/15

[@TiddlyTweeter]

Ciao TonyM

Right. My feeling here is PMario's existing solution in "advanced-search-plus" with that added would be really good.

His "plugin style" is incredibly well-honed. Its usually "exactly just enough and no more". His design approach really seems to foster expansion of basic function.

Josiah

[@TiddlyTweeter]

Mark S. wrote:

I know what you mean. Those $ tiddlers are @*!!#$ hard to find. But would you have felt the same way when you first started TW? Considering that the $ files are used mostly to hold the state of other actions.

You are absolutely right. I would not have.

At the same time, since I became a bit more of "tweaker", I found the "mid-space" problematic for a while. By which I mean I cottoned on the $ tiddlers are kinda special but the hassle in finding them easily I found very confusing. The "Middle Way" is missing (i.e. a toggle to see them when you want to just in normal search).

A really confusing consequence, as it currently is, for instance, is that under "ALL" in the "More" can be largely empty. I found that very confusing. Frankly I don't think it makes sense.

Best wishes
Josiah

[@TiddlyTweeter]

PMario wrote:
I did create the "advanced search plus" plugin, which allows you to save search queries.

• It replaces the "advanced search" button and creates a new tab in the right sidebar, where it adds 4 "search tabs"
• standard, system, shadow and filter-expression
• Those tabs can be saved
• title and caption can be defined

Ciao PMario

After using this a few days its clear to me this enhances the search mechanism really well.

Though I know the idea was to keep it in the sidebar, I think one enhancement could be to add a button be able to open it in the Story River. Useful for serious searches with long result lists.

Since this is a straightforward request I added it at: https://github.com/wikilabs/plugins/issues/16

Best wishes
Josiah

[@TiddlyTweeter]

Ciao PMario

I wrote up this issue here on GitHub: https://github.com/wikilabs/plugins/issues/17

Best wishes
Josiah

[Mark S.]

Most of the other search savers I've seen will either have a drop-down button next to the search box, or prior searches will show up as you search.

-- Mark

[David Gifford]

Being more of an end user I can say that the Recent tab as it is makes more sense for us end users. It also makes more sense for those who create content to share with other users. The content tiddlers are what show up in the Recent tab. Use cases include "What content did I most recently update?" and "Here are my most recent blog posts / tiddler entries." So it is not correct to say it doesn't make proper sense. To be honest, I use the Recent tab quite frequently.

What you are sensing is a frustration of developers and tweakers. As a tweaker, I sense it, too. Clicking advanced search then clicking the needed tab then finally doing the search is not an optimal process for finding system tiddlers you use all the time.

One nice alternative would be to have a filter search at the top of the system tab and the shadows tab. I am constantly scrolling those tabs up and down.

On Wednesday, July 18, 2018 at 1:45:57 PM UTC-5, @TiddlyTweeter wrote:

I just changed ...

$:/core/macros/timeline

... to show all types of Tiddler. I limited the display to 50 rather than 100 as I think, in some circumstances, that tab slows the wiki down.

I have comments...

• ... when you are working on growing a TW having to search for recently used but closed system & shadow Tiddlers is slightly irksome as you need to go to advanced search to do it. This is why I made the modest change for my own use ... But I am wondering IF more configuration options for the Recent tab could be a good idea, allowing a user to configure defaults for: (1) types shown; (2) numbers shown.

• ... I'm not entirely convinced the idea behind "Recent" as it is makes proper sense. In the default it only shows Tiddlers I can easily find in normal search. But a lot of the time its the OTHER type of Tiddler I need to find, the one's beginning "$:/". I'm wondering if I'm alone in this?

• FYI, now I know TW a bit better, I'll probably modify that macro again so it shows only the 20 most recent, but provides a link to longer list in its own Tiddler of 200.

Just thoughts

Josiah

[@TiddlyTweeter]

Thanks David for the good reply.

I broadly agree. Recent Tab makes great sense in production TW--those for users; those not for fiddling the entrails of. Yeah, I would say, quite a lot of what I do now is "tweaking." And that was part my focus.

I like your concept of "Content Tiddlers." Its sort-of clarifying. But its not so cut and dried as you imply you might like it to be :-).

For instance, in TW the $:/ can just be used as a device to hide stuff you want to transclude--for example "$:/Your Past Jobs" section in "Your CV". In this case its definitely "Content" but its hidden. Understanding why and how is functionally useful.

In any case, I'm not sure that my original message was meant to try make the end-user a "tweaker", rather to point to the fact there is a gap, a missing Middle Way, between innocent typist, and full-blown nerdista :-). Something like that.

Best wishes
Josiah

[@TiddlyTweeter]

Ciao Mark S. & PMario

I kinda forgot that in my previous comments. You are right. That familiar "drop-down" on "past search" could work.

BUT one thing PMario's Saving brings is the explicit saved "Caption" which allows you to "alias" the search argument into a human readable form. That is valuable to keep in some way I think?

Josiah

[PMario]

On Saturday, July 21, 2018 at 1:09:48 PM UTC+2, @TiddlyTweeter wrote:

 

Though I know the idea was to keep it in the sidebar, I think one enhancement could be to add a button be able to open it in the Story River. Useful for serious searches with long result lists.

There is a simple work-around. I always use link-to-tabs with my TWs, which allows you easily open every tab tiddler in the story-river.

https://wikilabs.github.io/editions/link-to-tabs/

-m

[PMario]

On Saturday, July 21, 2018 at 4:09:32 PM UTC+2, David Gifford wrote:

Being more of an end user I can say that the Recent tab as it is makes more sense for us end users. It also makes more sense for those who create content to share with other users. The content tiddlers are what show up in the Recent tab. Use cases include "What content did I most recently update?" and "Here are my most recent blog posts / tiddler entries." So it is not correct to say it doesn't make proper sense. To be honest, I use the Recent tab quite frequently.

That's absolutely right. ... I think the discussion here is important for users, that start to create a customized experience for their end-users. .. Where some stuff, should be hidden, because it would be confusing for end-users.

As TT points out ... improving the "middle-ground" :)

-m

[@TiddlyTweeter]

Right. Love it. Was thinking of users who don't have it :-)

[TonyM]

In relation to recent tabs see on my wiki site the easy to make recent tabs I use in the design phase. They require a single tiddler, include system tiddlers and go strait to edit.

They are simple to delete after designing

Tiddlywiki.psat.com.au

Regards
Tony

[@TiddlyTweeter]

Ciao TonyM

You wrote about this before in this thread and I replied already :-)

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/tiddlywiki/tWo3S6sEwTs/HTCVmwnNCAAJ

Josiah

TonyM wrote:

In relation to recent tabs see on my wiki site the easy to make recent tabs I use in the design phase...

[TonyM]

Sorry josiah

Some of the comments made me think I had not pointed to this.

Regards
Tony

[@TiddlyTweeter]

No problem. Google Groups are awful. I think most everyone here would agree that we are basically squatters here in the wrong land.