tippet, leaders, and spinning line

[Matthew Longley]

Curious if anyone uses spinning line as a substitute for leaders or tippet.  Is this fly fishing taboo?  It seems about 10x cheaper, and for less picky fish I wonder if it makes a difference.

[r...@robsnowhite.com]

Almost exclusively. Vicious, Berkeley vanish, and seagur (sp?). 

I don't throw small flies that often. Ill have a spool of fly shop 4x for tail water  midges. 

Sent from my iPhone

On Dec 28, 2012, at 2:01 PM, Matthew Longley <matthew...@gmail.com> wrote:

Curious if anyone uses spinning line as a substitute for leaders or tippet.  Is this fly fishing taboo?  It seems about 10x cheaper, and for less picky fish I wonder if it makes a difference.

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[Carl Zmola]

On 12/28/2012 02:01 PM, Matthew Longley wrote:
> Curious if anyone uses spinning line as a substitute for leaders or
> tippet. Is this fly fishing taboo? It seems about 10x cheaper, and

> for less picky fish I wonder if it makes a difference. --
> http://www.tpfr.org
I sometimes use 8 to 12 pound vanish spinning line as the last section
of my leader for warm water fishing (larger or less picky fish)

Tippet material is more uniform and consistent for fishing Dry flies
(size 12 and smaller) or when fishing 3x tippet or smaller (5x, 7x) is
called for.

Don't forget that a leader needs to be tapered, so one strand of mono
does not make a fly leader.


I tie my own leaders with hard mono (Maxima leader material) but that is
not bulk spinning monofiliment. When you consider the cost of lost
flies, a couple of sizes of tippet material are cheap.

Carl

[Richard Farino]

Most people won’t go through 300 yards of any specific size tippet in their lifetime.  Also considering the shelf life of some mono if it doesn’t sit in an area with no direct sunlight, it usually is easier to just buy the spools of tippet.  Most of mine last more than a full season.

 

And fishing 4x for tailwater midges just sounds silly.

 

R

 

 

Richard Farino

Urban Angler VA | 108 N. Washington Street  2nd Floor | Alexandria, VA 22314

(703) 527-2524 | fax: (703) 527-3313 | ric...@urbanangler.com

[Longley]

Thanks guys!  Sounds like for anything delicate, I should stick to tippet, but I can pick up some spinning mono for salt and big fish.

Sent from my mobile device

On Dec 30, 2012, at 7:39 PM, "Richard Farino" <ric...@urbanangler.com> wrote:

Most people won’t go through 300 yards of any specific size tippet in their lifetime.  Also considering the shelf life of some mono if it doesn’t sit in an area with no direct sunlight, it usually is easier to just buy the spools of tippet.  Most of mine last more than a full season.

 

And fishing 4x for tailwater midges just sounds silly.

 

R

 

 

Richard Farino

Urban Angler VA | 108 N. Washington Street  2nd Floor | Alexandria, VA 22314 <image001.png>

[John Bilotta]

Matt,

Lots of ways to look at, but if you don't use a lot mono in a season like rob does, it might not be much of a savings.

As others have said  probably wont use it up, it deteriorates, and mono generally works best if they are matched from the same company.

Also larger spools mean more stuff to pack, which is a pain.

If you want to build your own, for my bass and 8/9' light salt leaders I generally use a #40,30,20 combination to a #10-15 tippet to fly. 

Another  way is buy a 6' or 7'5" Ox leaders and a spool of 1 or 2 x tippet and just add 18" of tippet and fly. That works on the river just fine.

Again just my thoughts,

John

Sent from my iPhone

[Jeffrey Silvan]

When I used to fish 5-7 days per week during the summer, I'd use plain mono. Now, I fish far less - particularly during the winter - so I tend to use the small spools of tippet material. I just don't go through enough anymore, so the line will weaken significantly before I use it up. Plus, I can fit about 5 or 6 spools of tippet material on those Orvis lanyards, which makes it very nice to have a large selection of tippet ready to access for any situation while staying "light." Plus, then I can rebuild a pretty large portion of my leader if I get a nasty wind knot.

[Longley]

What is the shelf-life on mono?  Didn't realize it degraded so much.  Guess I should replace the line on my spinning rod?

Sent from my mobile device

[Daniel Davala]

Great thread guys, here are a few of my thoughts on the matter.  When I started fly fishing in my early teens, I didn't even know what a tapered leader was.  I had never heard the term "tippet", and X's were just something George Strait sung about that lived in Texas (I was quite the country boy back then with quite the mullet too).  In fact, I'm glad I didn't know what these things were because it might have scared me away - I just wanted to try fishing with a fly rod, right?  I did know I needed a leader though, so I just used a rod length of what I had a lot of - 12lb Berkley Trilene - red label.  Why Trilene?  Simple - because I liked watching Hank Parker (not Patterson) fish on TV in the 80's and he used it!   

 

Most of my fly fishing then was for Panfish and Bass, and some occasional streamer fishing for Trout on camping trips.  Simply put, my 8' un-tapered leader of 12lb Berkley Trilene turned over my "Dial a Popper" Bass bugs and Black Ghost or Muddler Minnow streamers just fine.  I caught plenty of fish and more importantly, I had tons of FUN!  So if the question is, "can I use regular fishing line for leaders", the short answer is YES!  That was how I started and it clearly didn't ruin my experience.

 

One point of clarification on something Carl said earlier too, a leader does not actually "need" to be tapered to be a "leader". The term "Leader" simply refers to the length of monofilament line (be it nylon, fluorocarbon, gut, or any other applicable material) between the fly line and the fly. It can be long or short, tapered or not. A leader that has no taper is called a "Level Leader". A great and practical example is how we rig for Shad in the Spring, and for most sinking line work in general - with a 2'-3' un-tapered "Leader" of the appropriate breaking strength.  Also, a 7'-9' un-tapered ("level") leader of 25lb test can work great on a floating line for Bass in thick lilly pads.

 

SO THEN.........WHY EVEN USE ACTUAL TAPERED LEADERS AND FLY FISHING SPECIFIC TIPPET MATERIAL??????????????? 

 

Well, if you only plan on fishing with large or weighted flies, hard body poppers, and heavy nymphs, technically you don't need to.  The simple test is, if you can easily throw the fly you want to fish with at least a rod length away, then it has enough mass to turn itself over at the end of a cast, so a tapered leader is not required.  BUT, there are definite performance benefits to using one.  Besides turning the fly over, part of a tapered leader's job is to transition the energy of a cast from the fly line all the way to the fly.  Ideally, the thicker butt section of the leader should be kept in close proximity to the diameter of the very tip of the fly line, so the energy transfer is as seamless as possible.  Without that thick leader butt section, the fly line has a tendency to "kick" as the tip unrolls and can throw a shock wave straight down the leader to the fly causing it to smack down harder than intended or flop off-target.  Also, when using and un-tapered "level" leader, you are just as likely to break off at the line/leader connection as you are at the fly, so you stand to lose the whole leader any time you snag or hang up on something.  The thick butt section of a tapered leader is usually in the neighborhood of 50lb test, so it is likely you will only break off at the knot attaching the fly. 

 

If one fishes with a wide variety of flies, both in type and size (such as when Trout Fishing), then it is hard to be fully effective without a tapered leader and a wide range of tippet sizes.  Most dry flies really need the help and design of a tapered leader to turn over well (fully extend) at the end of a cast.  It is also important to keep the very tip of the leader, or "tippet" section diameter relative to the size of fly being used.  When I go trout fishing in all but small streams, I carry with me spools of tippet from 0X-7X since I may fish a #2 streamer at one time, a #24 Trico at another, and anything in between over the course of a day.  Carrying 8 small spools of "tippet material" is infinitely easier and lighter than large mix/match spools of conventional fishing line, and it allows me to conveniently build, modify, and rebuild my leader as necessary.

 

The convenience of the smaller spools is also great when fishing locally on the Potomac.  Most days on the river, at least when Striper fishing, I carry only a pair of forceps, some snips, a tippet spool of 16lb fluoro (or 0X), and a pocket sized box of Clousers.  Hard to beat that kind of simplicity!  

 

And last, there certainly is a difference in quality/consistency when comparing mono-filament sold as "fly fishing tippet" to the large spools of conventional fishing line.  Tippet sold as 0X-8X, for example, is graded on diameter, so the tolerances are much tighter and the diameter is the same from one end to the other.  Bulk spools of conventional fishing line have a diameter range printed on the spool, so a 300yd spool of 8# test may have an acceptable diameter allowance of .008"-.010" from one end to another.  That means even a good quality spool of regular fishing line can contain quite a range of diameters from one end to the other which really can impact not only your presentation with smaller flies, but also your tippet knot strength. 

 

Yes, spools of "tippet" cost a bit more, but most things made in smaller batches and held to higher quality standards do.  Does it matter?  One sip of the Woodford Reserve I'm enjoying as I type this certainly suggests so.

 

In conclusion, you most certainly can use regular fishing line for a leader.  It will work and it is not taboo.  However, there are tangible reasons for the cost of "tippet material", performance benefits to tapered leaders, and pure functional convenience to the small spools.  Hope this helps a bit and doesn't confuse.

 

Dan Davala

[TurbineBlade]

I'm another moron who uses regular mono fishing line!  Mostly 6-8 pound test.....a strip about 6-10' long depending on conditions and what I happen to pull off that day.  I cast it fine and don't have problems turning over flies.  

This guy does the same thing, but he may be crazy -- I'm not sure:

 http://www3.sympatico.ca/ianjames/ask9.html

Don't take this as argument with the above at all -- I don't have any idea what I'm talking about, especially with fly fishing.  The "x" stuff I fully believe is made more precisely and if I were trout fishing I'd use that instead since I'd be using lighter line and the line quality if probably a lot more critical.   

Gene

[Joe Molloy]

I'm embarrassed to say I watched some of that attached video and want to warn anyone attempting to view it not to go past 30 seconds...I think I'm gonna get sick.

Dan, Thanks for great info.

joe

[Dubble Haul]

Awesome post!  Thanks, Dan!

[Brendan]

quick point on tippet -- it definitely does degrade. I was out west on a trip and the big water wasn't fishing great so went up to fish some of the streams for cutts.  Had to pick up some 5x tippet from the local outfitter/gas station that i guess had been on the stand in the sun for a couple years and could barely hold the fly on, much less a fish. Trimmed the leader a bit and switched over to whatever  mono line weight i had on the ultralight spin setup i usually keep in the trunk and it worked okay. probably trying to fish tiny flies with half as much taper to the leader as normal was the biggest problem, but found the lies to be much less natural. Poppers/Streamers, never had a problem with use 10-14lb spin line as tippet, for reasons dan mentions. 

Richie and Dan can probably answer this better, but i usually chuck any tippet left in my bag after 2 seasons.  

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