X-Men (and by proxy, Marvel) Supports Gay Marriage
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Luke Jaconetti
May 22, 2012, 2:12:03 PM5/22/12
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In Astonishing X-Men #50 (in stores tomorrow), Northstar proposes to his boyfriend Kyle, with the wedding to take place in the following issue. #50 is the first issue of the new creative team, writer Marjorie Liu and artist Mike Perkins.
Let me relate a little scene with Northstar which you may not remember. In Alpha Flight volume 2, which was written by Steve Seagal and took place during the "Heroes Reborn" event (where Iron Man, Captain America, The Avengers, and Fantastic Four were "on loan" to Jim Lee and Rob Liefeld and the characters were in a pocket universe), there is a scene where Northstar flies too high and his powers fail him, and he crashes into the North Atlantic. He is found by a fishing boat, and there is a scene of him talking with one of the seamen.
In that scene, the seaman tells Northstar that he has a nephew who is "one of you," meaning that he's gay. Northstar bristles at this, saying that he is "the one with the light powers," not "the gay one."
Seems like Liu and Perkins (and Marvel) are more than happy to have Northstar be "the gay one" at this point.
Michael Bailey
May 22, 2012, 6:35:52 PM5/22/12
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Just to throw the question out there how is this different than Scott marrying Jean or any of the other marriages that have happened in the Marvel Universe. Yes, this is a little different because of the controversy surrounding gay marriage in this country but frankly I don't see this as a problem.
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Luke Jaconetti
May 22, 2012, 8:39:37 PM5/22/12
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The wedding of Scott Summers and Jean Grey, in my estimation, was not a story done purely for political reasons and/or to be provocative. The timing of this (the engagement in #50 followed immediately by the wedding in #51) and the fact that Northstar (a character who has not gotten any real attention in several years) has been brought out of mothballs specifically because "he's the gay one" really reeks of political editorializing.
The wedding of Scott and Jean was a story that was built up for some 30 years or so. This one has a build up of 60 days.
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Michael Bailey
May 22, 2012, 10:57:52 PM5/22/12
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I will not argue that this story was done to get attention. To say otherwise is folly. It may very well be political editorializing. On the other hand, and this is how I am choosing to look at it, the fact of the matter is Northstar is gay so it would stand to reason that if they wanted to bring the character back and have him on one of the X-teams or even guest in one of the books then you have to deal with who the character is. If he is gay then the subject of gay marriage is fair game. Is it sensationalistic? You bet, but again I have no problem with it.
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Cary Preston
May 22, 2012, 11:05:47 PM5/22/12
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I don't either. Social issues have been fair game for a long time in this medium. The X Men thrived on teen disaffection and subtle undertones of racism that eventually became overt. Northstar's sexuality was stated ages ago as well.
Sent from my iPhone
Sent from my iPhone
Luke Jaconetti
May 23, 2012, 12:00:21 AM5/23/12
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Yes, and for years no one cared about Northstar's sexuality. The timing is the release cue here which gives away that this was not about bringing back a character, it was about standing a soapbox to broadcast your politics and said character was the only one with the right attributes to exploit. Especially considering the fast turnaround for the other shoe. I don't recall Scott & Jean getting engaged in X-Men #29 and married in #30.
Look, my point was that this was outright and overt politicization from Liu and/or Perkins and/or Marvel Editorial, and that I find outright and overt politicization in comics really, really irritating. I'm lucky in that the X-Men books have been indecipherable for many years at this point, and thus I am not even tempted to pick this stunt up.
Adama
May 23, 2012, 7:40:52 AM5/23/12
to The Unique Geek
But here's the thing...not everyone considers gay marriage to be a
political talking point. To me, and to a lot of people, its a matter
of human rights, like allowing women to vote or inter-racial couples
to marry. From the beginning (or at least, ever since I remember), the
X-Men have always been used as a vehicle to denounce the hatred of
those who are different. It was racism back in the 60's and 70's, and
in this case, its homophobia. I don't see this as being any different.
After all, if Northstar really is just "the one with the light powers"
then him wanting to get married is no big deal. Comic book weddings
have been news events before, after all. Remember the hoopla around
Lois and Clark's wedding back in the day?
Do I think the timing is suspicious? Yeah, but I think it has more to
do with it being in the news and Marvel getting free publicity than
anything else. And hey, that's capitalism for you.
Adam
On May 22, 11:00 pm, Luke Jaconetti <ljac...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Yes, and for years no one cared about Northstar's sexuality. The timing is
> the release cue here which gives away that this was not about bringing back
> a character, it was about standing a soapbox to broadcast your politics and
> said character was the only one with the right attributes to exploit.
> Especially considering the fast turnaround for the other shoe. I don't
> recall Scott & Jean getting engaged in X-Men #29 and married in #30.
>
> Look, my point was that this was outright and overt politicization from Liu
> and/or Perkins and/or Marvel Editorial, and that I find outright and overt
> politicization in comics really, really irritating. I'm lucky in that the
> X-Men books have been indecipherable for many years at this point, and thus
> I am not even tempted to pick this stunt up.
>
>
>
> On Tuesday, May 22, 2012 10:05:47 PM UTC-5, cwpreston wrote:
>
> > I don't either. Social issues have been fair game for a long time in this
> > medium. The X Men thrived on teen disaffection and subtle undertones of
> > racism that eventually became overt. Northstar's sexuality was stated ages
> > ago as well.
>
> > Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On May 22, 2012, at 10:57 PM, Michael Bailey <supermanear...@gmail.com>
>
> >>>>http://www.newsarama.com/**comics/the-view-gay-marriage-**
> >>>> northstar-x-men.html<http://www.newsarama.com/comics/the-view-gay-marriage-northstar-x-men...>
> >>>> msg/theuniquegeek/-/**kJagfbZnKnsJ<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/theuniquegeek/-/kJagfbZnKnsJ>
> >>>> .
> >>>> To post to this group, send email to theuni...@googlegroups.com**.
> >>>> .
> >>>> For more options, visit this group athttp://groups.google.com/**
> >>>> group/theuniquegeek?hl=en<http://groups.google.com/group/theuniquegeek?hl=en>
> >>>> .
political talking point. To me, and to a lot of people, its a matter
of human rights, like allowing women to vote or inter-racial couples
to marry. From the beginning (or at least, ever since I remember), the
X-Men have always been used as a vehicle to denounce the hatred of
those who are different. It was racism back in the 60's and 70's, and
in this case, its homophobia. I don't see this as being any different.
After all, if Northstar really is just "the one with the light powers"
then him wanting to get married is no big deal. Comic book weddings
have been news events before, after all. Remember the hoopla around
Lois and Clark's wedding back in the day?
Do I think the timing is suspicious? Yeah, but I think it has more to
do with it being in the news and Marvel getting free publicity than
anything else. And hey, that's capitalism for you.
Adam
On May 22, 11:00 pm, Luke Jaconetti <ljac...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Yes, and for years no one cared about Northstar's sexuality. The timing is
> the release cue here which gives away that this was not about bringing back
> a character, it was about standing a soapbox to broadcast your politics and
> said character was the only one with the right attributes to exploit.
> Especially considering the fast turnaround for the other shoe. I don't
> recall Scott & Jean getting engaged in X-Men #29 and married in #30.
>
> Look, my point was that this was outright and overt politicization from Liu
> and/or Perkins and/or Marvel Editorial, and that I find outright and overt
> politicization in comics really, really irritating. I'm lucky in that the
> X-Men books have been indecipherable for many years at this point, and thus
> I am not even tempted to pick this stunt up.
>
>
>
> On Tuesday, May 22, 2012 10:05:47 PM UTC-5, cwpreston wrote:
>
> > I don't either. Social issues have been fair game for a long time in this
> > medium. The X Men thrived on teen disaffection and subtle undertones of
> > racism that eventually became overt. Northstar's sexuality was stated ages
> > ago as well.
>
> > Sent from my iPhone
>
> > wrote:
>
> > I will not argue that this story was done to get attention. To say
> > otherwise is folly. It may very well be political editorializing. On the
> > other hand, and this is how I am choosing to look at it, the fact of the
> > matter is Northstar is gay so it would stand to reason that if they wanted
> > to bring the character back and have him on one of the X-teams or even
> > guest in one of the books then you have to deal with who the character is.
> > If he is gay then the subject of gay marriage is fair game. Is it
> > sensationalistic? You bet, but again I have no problem with it.
>
>
> > I will not argue that this story was done to get attention. To say
> > otherwise is folly. It may very well be political editorializing. On the
> > other hand, and this is how I am choosing to look at it, the fact of the
> > matter is Northstar is gay so it would stand to reason that if they wanted
> > to bring the character back and have him on one of the X-teams or even
> > guest in one of the books then you have to deal with who the character is.
> > If he is gay then the subject of gay marriage is fair game. Is it
> > sensationalistic? You bet, but again I have no problem with it.
>
> > On Tue, May 22, 2012 at 8:39 PM, Luke Jaconetti <ljac...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >> The wedding of Scott Summers and Jean Grey, in my estimation, was not a
> >> story done purely for political reasons and/or to be provocative. The
> >> timing of this (the engagement in #50 followed immediately by the wedding
> >> in #51) and the fact that Northstar (a character who has not gotten any
> >> real attention in several years) has been brought out of mothballs
> >> specifically because "he's the gay one" really reeks of political
> >> editorializing.
>
> >> The wedding of Scott and Jean was a story that was built up for some 30
> >> years or so. This one has a build up of 60 days.
>
> >> On Tuesday, May 22, 2012 5:35:52 PM UTC-5, Michael Bailey wrote:
>
> >>> Just to throw the question out there how is this different than Scott
> >>> marrying Jean or any of the other marriages that have happened in the
> >>> Marvel Universe. Yes, this is a little different because of the
> >>> controversy surrounding gay marriage in this country but frankly I don't
> >>> see this as a problem.
>
> >>> On Tue, May 22, 2012 at 2:12 PM, Luke Jaconetti <ljac...@gmail.com>wrote:
>
> >> The wedding of Scott Summers and Jean Grey, in my estimation, was not a
> >> story done purely for political reasons and/or to be provocative. The
> >> timing of this (the engagement in #50 followed immediately by the wedding
> >> in #51) and the fact that Northstar (a character who has not gotten any
> >> real attention in several years) has been brought out of mothballs
> >> specifically because "he's the gay one" really reeks of political
> >> editorializing.
>
> >> The wedding of Scott and Jean was a story that was built up for some 30
> >> years or so. This one has a build up of 60 days.
>
> >> On Tuesday, May 22, 2012 5:35:52 PM UTC-5, Michael Bailey wrote:
>
> >>> Just to throw the question out there how is this different than Scott
> >>> marrying Jean or any of the other marriages that have happened in the
> >>> Marvel Universe. Yes, this is a little different because of the
> >>> controversy surrounding gay marriage in this country but frankly I don't
> >>> see this as a problem.
>
>
> >>>>http://www.newsarama.com/**comics/the-view-gay-marriage-**
> >>>> northstar-x-men.html<http://www.newsarama.com/comics/the-view-gay-marriage-northstar-x-men...>
>
> >>>> In Astonishing X-Men #50 (in stores tomorrow), Northstar proposes to
> >>>> his boyfriend Kyle, with the wedding to take place in the following issue.
> >>>> #50 is the first issue of the new creative team, writer Marjorie Liu and
> >>>> artist Mike Perkins.
>
> >>>> Let me relate a little scene with Northstar which you may not
> >>>> remember. In Alpha Flight volume 2, which was written by Steve Seagal and
> >>>> took place during the "Heroes Reborn" event (where Iron Man, Captain
> >>>> America, The Avengers, and Fantastic Four were "on loan" to Jim Lee and Rob
> >>>> Liefeld and the characters were in a pocket universe), there is a scene
> >>>> where Northstar flies too high and his powers fail him, and he crashes into
> >>>> the North Atlantic. He is found by a fishing boat, and there is a scene of
> >>>> him talking with one of the seamen.
>
> >>>> In that scene, the seaman tells Northstar that he has a nephew who is
> >>>> "one of you," meaning that he's gay. Northstar bristles at this, saying
> >>>> that he is "the one with the light powers," not "the gay one."
>
> >>>> Seems like Liu and Perkins (and Marvel) are more than happy to have
> >>>> Northstar be "the gay one" at this point.
>
> >>>> --
> >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> >>>> Groups "The Unique Geek" group.
> >>>> To view this discussion on the web visithttps://groups.google.com/d/**
> >>>> In Astonishing X-Men #50 (in stores tomorrow), Northstar proposes to
> >>>> his boyfriend Kyle, with the wedding to take place in the following issue.
> >>>> #50 is the first issue of the new creative team, writer Marjorie Liu and
> >>>> artist Mike Perkins.
>
> >>>> Let me relate a little scene with Northstar which you may not
> >>>> remember. In Alpha Flight volume 2, which was written by Steve Seagal and
> >>>> took place during the "Heroes Reborn" event (where Iron Man, Captain
> >>>> America, The Avengers, and Fantastic Four were "on loan" to Jim Lee and Rob
> >>>> Liefeld and the characters were in a pocket universe), there is a scene
> >>>> where Northstar flies too high and his powers fail him, and he crashes into
> >>>> the North Atlantic. He is found by a fishing boat, and there is a scene of
> >>>> him talking with one of the seamen.
>
> >>>> In that scene, the seaman tells Northstar that he has a nephew who is
> >>>> "one of you," meaning that he's gay. Northstar bristles at this, saying
> >>>> that he is "the one with the light powers," not "the gay one."
>
> >>>> Seems like Liu and Perkins (and Marvel) are more than happy to have
> >>>> Northstar be "the gay one" at this point.
>
> >>>> --
> >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> >>>> Groups "The Unique Geek" group.
> >>>> msg/theuniquegeek/-/**kJagfbZnKnsJ<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/theuniquegeek/-/kJagfbZnKnsJ>
> >>>> .
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> >>>> group/theuniquegeek?hl=en<http://groups.google.com/group/theuniquegeek?hl=en>
> >>>> .
>
> >>> --
> >>> This post/e-mail was written by Michael Bailey, Superman Apologist
>
> >>> --
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>
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> > --
> > This post/e-mail was written by Michael Bailey, Superman Apologist
>
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>
> > --
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>
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Luke Jaconetti
May 23, 2012, 8:13:10 AM5/23/12
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Adam, I hear you and know where you are coming from. And you know me, I'm pretty laizze-faire when it comes to people's personal lives.
Let me say this: we have a saying in my industry that you don't bring a problem to your boss without a solution. So let me take my own advice and propose a "solution."
Let's say that in Astonishing X-Men #50, the new creative debuts and the new storylines begin, and one of the new additions to the roster is Northstar. At somepoint in the issue we as the readers meet his boyfriend Kyle (perhaps Jean-Paul meets him for the first time as well). Their relationship is a subplot which runs in the book, along with the main plots and no doubt several other subplots (this being the X-Men and all).
In Astonishing #60, Jean-Paul proposes to Kyle and Kyle accepts. Knowing that any day could be his last (being a superhero and all), Jean-Paul insists on pulling the wedding together quickly, so in #61 there are tons of preperations being made and people running around. We'll also get a quick glimpse of, I don't know, the Marauders or something planning an attack. #62 comes and it's wedding bells. The Marauders stage their attack but don't get out of the blocks, as they are shut down long before they get anywhere near the site (this is an homage to Sabretooth and the unseen Wolverine at Scott & Jean's wedding). The wedding goes off without a hitch and Jean-Paul and Kyle go off on their honeymoon. Maybe they go to Whistler Mountain, British Columbia as a nod to Alpha Flight? (Jean-Paul is a skier, or, he used to be, at least.) Then Northstar comes back for the next storyline and Kyle stays on as a supporting character.
It's not the gay marriage which I object to; Northstar is a homosexual, after all, and I myself have been to a gay wedding (more of a commitment ceremony but you get my drift). My problem is that the motivation for this story seems so transparent. It doesn't strike me as Liu saying "I want to write this cool arc for Northstar where he falls in love and gets married." Instead all it reads as is "I want to write a story about gay marriage RIGHT NOW so I need to use Northstar." Maybe I am splitting hairs here but that bugged me when I read it.
So no, Northstar getting married doesn't really bug me. The political stunt nature of the storyline is what is stuck in my craw. As I think about it, it does occur to me that this may be bothering me because I am a fan of the character, and would rather he get an actual story arc rather than a hotshot program.
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> > --
> > This post/e-mail was written by Michael Bailey, Superman Apologist
>
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Cary Preston
May 23, 2012, 8:16:03 AM5/23/12
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How about the over politicizing by works like Watchmen? Comics are rife with social and political posturing. You'd practically have to stick to Archie to stay away from all overt editorial contamination.
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Cary Preston
May 23, 2012, 8:23:21 AM5/23/12
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I agree with an earlier post- it's more likely that it's a stunt to make sales from a current event, not to push a political agenda. If it were a social statement then they would be much better served making the relationship between the two a recurring part of the story a la Apollo and Nightbringer in The Authority. Putting current events into a comic to boost sales is a common tactic: just look at all of the 9/11 themed issues released.
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Luke Jaconetti
May 23, 2012, 8:24:03 AM5/23/12
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Certainly. The difference to me is that Alan Moore and Dave Gibbons didn't issue a press release and work a deal with The View to talk about the political allegories in Watchmen. Although, for the image of Alan Moore on The View, I wish they had. LOL! Now I have another image in my head of Dave Sim appearing on The View, which is just plain trippy.
Look, like I said, I don't have a problem with Northstar getting married. X-Men has always been about the social outsiders and right now "gay is the new Black," or so we are told by the network TV up-fronts.
Furthermore, from reading Wikipedia, evidently Northstar and Kyle have been an item since 2009. As I said, I don't read the X-Men comics! That makes my argument about this being a hotshot somewhat less potent. The timing is still pure politics, but this is from the company which featured Obama on their covers almost as much as Newsweek, so that's to be expected.
Archie hasn't been shying away from the headlines, either -- Kevin Keller has been grabbing them for a few years now, and they are advertising their first (I believe) interracial relationship, between Archie and Valerie (from the Pussycats).
Michael Bailey
May 23, 2012, 12:33:03 PM5/23/12
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I think we're all pretty much on the same page here. It's a stunt. There's nothing wrong with it. Some of us don't like how fast this is being pulled together but there is nothing inherently wrong with what is going on.
And I would like to see Alan Moore on THE VIEW as well, if for no other reason than to make everyone except maybe Whoppi Goldberg really, really uncomfortable.
And I would like to see Alan Moore on THE VIEW as well, if for no other reason than to make everyone except maybe Whoppi Goldberg really, really uncomfortable.
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Patrick Pence
May 23, 2012, 12:58:47 PM5/23/12
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Heh. Sounded like Michael just pulled a Seinfeld... "Not that there's anything wrong with that...!"
P
Date: Wed, 23 May 2012 12:33:03 -0400
Subject: Re: [The Unique Geek] X-Men (and by proxy, Marvel) Supports Gay Marriage
From: superma...@gmail.com
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"You can be the captain,
and I will draw the chart..."Date: Wed, 23 May 2012 12:33:03 -0400
Subject: Re: [The Unique Geek] X-Men (and by proxy, Marvel) Supports Gay Marriage
From: superma...@gmail.com
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