Bear in the Hole...?

[Rod Jackson]

 

I've been watching the "slice-of-life" anime called "Honey and Clover". In episode F (The King of Fashion) there is a game of Shogi between two of the characters. The castle that is made and shown is clearly a "Bear in the Hole" (anaguma) castle. Yet one of the characters calls it a "Badger" (in the english subtitles, the dub doesn't mention the name at all). So I go to a Japanese to english trnalsation website and type in "Badger" - http://translate.google.com/?tl=ja&q=badger . You can see the result is "anaguma" (in Katakana). So now I'm wondering if "bear in the hole" is the correct name for this castle or not?

 

RAZA 2012

 

 ^"I wept and wept because no one was found who was worthy to open the scroll or look inside. Then one of the elders said to me, "Do not weep! See, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, has triumphed. He is able to open the scroll and its seven seals." " Revelation 5:4-5

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[Eric De Las Casas]

Anaguma literally means "bear in the hole" (Ana = hole, kuma = bear), but it can also mean badger. Either is correct. 

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[Rod Jackson]

cool thanks for that!

 

RAZA 2012

 

 ^"I wept and wept because no one was found who was worthy to open the scroll or look inside. Then one of the elders said to me, "Do not weep! See, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, has triumphed. He is able to open the scroll and its seven seals." " Revelation 5:4-5

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Christianity is True

[DARREN PAULL]

Hi Rod ,

Just wondering ...do you ever play at iggames these days?

Darren

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Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2012 16:54:10 -0700
From: rod_ra...@yahoo.com.au
Subject: Bear in the Hole...?
To: sho...@googlegroups.com

[Rod Jackson]

I haven't been but I can if you like...

 

RAZA 2012

 

 ^"I wept and wept because no one was found who was worthy to open the scroll or look inside. Then one of the elders said to me, "Do not weep! See, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, has triumphed. He is able to open the scroll and its seven seals." " Revelation 5:4-5

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Shogi War Page
Christianity is True

From: DARREN PAULL <sundo...@hotmail.com>
To: sho...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Sunday, 22 July 2012 11:09 AM
Subject: RE: Bear in the Hole...?

Hi Rod ,

Just wondering ...do you ever play at iggames these days?

Darren

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[DARREN PAULL]

Ok , I log in there from time to time .What is your usual schedule these days?

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Date: Sun, 22 Jul 2012 17:14:29 -0700
From: rod_ra...@yahoo.com.au
Subject: Re: Bear in the Hole...?

[Daniel Andreas Wang]

For what it’s worth, I found the following in “SHOGI” Magazine, issue no. 12 (March 1978), on page 15:

“We have had people objecting to the description of ‘anaguma’ as ‘bear-in-the-hole’ because dictionaries render it as ‘badger’. But ask any Japanese what he thinks of when he hears anaguma he will say a bear in a hole, and it is clear that in Shogi it is this connotation of the holed-up King that is referred to. On top of the obvious taxonomic problems associated with Japanese mammals (the so-called badger is closer to a racoon) we must remember that the anaguma is a very old Shogi word and it is unjust to ascribe modern connotations to it. The dictionaries are defective.”

-Daniel

[Gergely Buglyo]

Hi everyone!
 
Actually, "anaguma" does mean "badger", it's just not a very common word. Most Japanese just refer to badgers as "tanuki" in general, although "tanuki" and "anaguma" are actually a little bit different. The word "anaguma" consists of "ana" and "kuma", which mean "hole" and "bear", respectively - I'm guessing they gave it this name for the reason that the badger is a bear-like animal that lives in a hole. When you ask a Japanese who doesn't know the real meaning of anaguma (which is probably any Japanese person unless they studied biology), they will translate it like "bear in the hole", but that doesn't make it a valid translation. I'm guessing that maybe in old Japanese the word "anaguma" must have been more common. For instance, in old English, the badger was commonly called "broc", but if you ask the average British or American person what kind of an animal a broc is, they will probably have no idea.
 
Hope this could clear it up a little bit, and best regards:
 
Gergely
 

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Date: Sun, 29 Jul 2012 04:47:28 -0700
From: dani...@student.uio.no
To: sho...@googlegroups.com
CC: rod_ra...@yahoo.com.au

Subject: Re: Bear in the Hole...?

For what it’s worth, I found the following in “SHOGI” Magazine, issue no. 12 (March 1978), on page 15:

“We have had people objecting to the description of ‘anaguma’ as ‘bear-in-the-hole’ because dictionaries render it as ‘badger’. But ask any Japanese what he thinks of when he hears anaguma he will say a bear in a hole, and it is clear that in Shogi it is this connotation of the holed-up King that is referred to. On top of the obvious taxonomic problems associated with Japanese mammals (the so-called badger is closer to a racoon) we must remember that the anaguma is a very old Shogi word and it is unjust to ascribe modern connotations to it. The dictionaries are defective.”

-Daniel

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[Hidetchi]

I translated it "Bear-in-the-hole" in my YouTube videos. Two years ago, someone contacted me saying "your translation is wrong" and he told me about the "badger", which I hadn't known in my life. So I tried to learn about this animal on the internet etc.

My conclusion is, there is no way of checking whether this castle name was originally meant a "badger" of a "bear".

The fact is that most Japanese people think it is a bear, because they simply don't know this animal, badger. But it seems not just a biological term. Some people seem to use Anaguma in normal text or conversation for badger. It this case, it is usually written in katakana, but sometimes kanji is also used. I don't know why "kuma" is used for this animal, but this is also the case with "araiguma" (wash-bear), which all Japanese people know and looks like this photo: http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E3%82%A2%E3%83%A9%E3%82%A4%E3%82%B0%E3%83%9E

The question is, whether this was a common animal in the Edo period, for example. According to some sources, it was rather called "mujina" in those periods together with other similar animals like raccoon-dog. However, we cannot deny the possibility that it was also often called "anaguma". So I admit there is still a possibility that it was originally meant to be a badger.

On the other hand, especially when it is written in "kanji", it means a bear in winter hibernation to most Japanese (even when it is not about shogi). It is actually a "ニホン・ツキノワグマ" (ursus taponicus), which looks like this photo, for example: http://blog.goo.ne.jp/cinogi/e/b3b0de5d39da5a0bcb8534cf209baff0

In my opinion, discussing the unclear possibility of "badger" being the original is meaningless when it is already widely understood as bear in Japan. Moreover, most overseas shogi players don't translate it to begin with. They just call it "anaguma".

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[Gergely Buglyo]

Hi Hidetchi,
 
Thanks for your very useful and detailed post! But is "anaguma" really used for a bear in winter hibernation when written in kanji? You're the native speaker, and it may be my lack of knowledge, but I've never seen anyone use it like that. Also, when I asked people in my shogi club back in Japan, they said that they had never heard/read it, but it probably meant a bear in its cave. That was until one of them looked it up using dictionary software, and found the meaning "badger" - and all the others accepted it as the meaning of the word. Also, as an experiment, I've just input "anaguma" in kanji to Japanese Google. All that turned up was shogi links. In Google picture search, pictures of badgers and the shogi castle turned up, but no pictures of bears.
 
But you're right, translation is not all that important, as even shogi players in the West just use as "anaguma" anyway.
 
Best regards:
 
Gergely
 

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Date: Sun, 29 Jul 2012 22:57:44 -0700
From: hidetc...@gmail.com
To: sho...@googlegroups.com

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[Daniel Andreas Wang]

Although it would be a fallacy to infer a particular meaning from etymology alone, it would also be a mistake to assume that modern dictionary definitions intended for general use or contexts unrelated to Shogi would provide the best translation. That would be rather like insisting on translating "aji" as "taste" when that is clearly not the intended meaning in either Shogi or Go (indeed, it would not be unusual for the same Japanese word to mean something different in each game).

Also, the target language is just as important to consider when you are translating. "Bear-in-the-Hole" illustrates neatly how the king is tucked away in the castle, and in any case has been the standard English translation for decades. However, it is indeed common to leave the term untranslated, and as someone who is not a native speaker of English I find myself referring to it exclusively as "anaguma" anyway.

In general, there is much to be said for not trying too hard to translate Shogi terms. Go players seem to do just fine without having to come up with a translation for everything.

-Daniel

[Hidetchi]

I'm sorry, I wasn't very clear.

No, normal Japanese people don't use this word "anaguma", so it doesn't have a common meaning. But for example, hunters say "anaguma", meaning the bear in hibernation in its cave. (except for hunters who hunt badger ...)

Also it is very natural for normal Japanese to think of a bear in hibernation when they hear "anaguma", because all Japanese people know that bears sleep in winters in cave or pit.

I was born and have lived in Japan for more than 30 years, and had never seen / heard of "badger" in my life until I received the comment on YouTube. In wild nature, in zoo, on TV, on radio, in books, in conversation, on the internet,,,, never. A bear in hibernation, on the other hand, is seen or described everywhere. It is very hard to imagine that this castle was named after "badger" when it is no uncommon animal to Japanese. I doubt that it was common even in the old era.

We usually imagine a strong / powerful bear when calling this castle. It is actually very funny if one must imagine a cute little badger when using this castle...

One example is this video, which at 0:41 illustrates how "anaguma" castle can be imagined by Japanese.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pkg3n264kHs

I'd like the castle to remain being understood this way ....

[Eric Kuniholm]

Thank you , Hidetchi san,

The video is a persuasive argument in favor of imagining the Anaguma as a "bear," and not a "badger" castle. I've often felt that the real problem with the now canonical translation of "bear in the hole" is the word hole, which to my mind, conjures up badgers rather than bears.

From a North American, non manga inspired perspective, badgers are tenacious creatures, vicious when cornered, and just the sort of animal to defend itself in a hole.

A potential solution, since we are dealing indisputably with a bear, would be to call the Anaguma the "Cave Bear Castle," or the "Bear in its Den," both of which evoke places where bears are at their most powerful and dangerous, and which point towards the withdrawn, dug-in nature of the Anaguma.

Would that make anyone happier?

Eric

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[Lukas Vyletel]

Hi everyone,

I find this discussion very interesting, after Gergely and Hidetchi
joined it. As for Eric's question, I have a counter question... Do we
really need to change the currently used and many years established
translation "Bear in the hole"? I don't see any benefit of doing that,
especially when as already pointed out, the word "anaguma" itself is
used in "western" world anyway very often. Why proposing other
translations and thereby stressing on the importance of the
translation? Anyway it's only a nickname and has no consequence for
learning shogi, promoting shogi better or in any other way improving
shogi scene in "western" world...

Best regards,
Lukas Vyletel


2012/7/31 Eric Kuniholm <ericku...@gmail.com>:

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[Gergely Buglyo]

Thank you, now I can better understand the reasoning. But I also agree with Eric: a badger can probably be a vicious animal just like a bear, at least I wouldn't like to run into one defending its hole. :) Also, I did a little research on the internet, and it seems "anaguma" is the Japanese badger, "Meles anakuma" in Latin. According to the Wikipedia article, it's actually common in Japan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_badger). But I have to admit, I never saw it on TV or in a zoo either while I was in Japan, or at least I can't remember it. :)
 

---

Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2012 12:20:14 -0700
From: hide...@81dojo.com

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[Eric De Las Casas]

I know this thread is several months old, but I was watching an advertisement for the arcade game "Tenkaiichi Shogi 2," which features some flashy effects when you make castles, and this was the image for Anaguma:

http://81squareuniverse.com/hirostuff/anaguma.png

So it's pretty clear that Japanese shogi players think of a bear, not a badger.

-Eric

[Rod Jackson]

Yes I think Hidetchi posted the youtube ad which has that picture in it a while ago. Funnily enough the same day I read your email I saw this youtube clip on the Honey Badger. So if you think badgers aren't mean then you should check it out (warning there is bad language in it) -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4r7wHMg5Yjg

 

RAZA 2012

---

From: Eric De Las Casas <ede...@gmail.com>
To: sho...@googlegroups.com

Cc: Rod Jackson <rod_ra...@yahoo.com.au>
Sent: Saturday, 1 December 2012 10:05 AM

Subject: Re: Bear in the Hole...?

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[Eric Kuniholm]

Hello all,

I'm sorry, but I believe that Anaguma (穴熊) has always been a badger, and only since the Shogi castle has been popularized has the meaning begun to drift, at least among children and those willing to cater to them.

An analogy to what has happened might be to imagine a comic book character named the Sun Bear. Sure, we might picture it heroically as a grizzly with a rising sun behind it, and most would be none the wiser. How many people know it's actually a diminutive insectivore?

My Kenkyusha Japanese English dictionary (2003), defines "anaguma" (穴熊) as "badger," and if you look on Japanese Wikipedia, you'll find pictures of both the badger and the Shogi castle.

The attached picture:

is from a Japanese website. It is identified as an anaguma, or 穴熊. Badger or grizzly? You be the judge.

Eric Kuniholm

[martin....@telia.com]

Dear shogi friends,

 

Like last year, Goteborg Open 2012 attracted 14 players. You can find the results at

 

http://www.shogi.se/forum/index.php?f=20&t=837&rb_v=viewtopic

 

Best regards,

 

Martin Danerud

 

President of the Swedish Shogi Federation