Has anyone seen God or not?

[Lucifer Morningstar]

Has anyone seen God or not?

Has seen

(Gen. 17:1)--“Now when Abram was ninety-nine years old, the
LORD appeared to Abram and said to him, "I am God Almighty; Walk
before Me, and be blameless;"
(Gen. 18:1) Now the LORD appeared to him by the oaks of Mamre,
while he was sitting at the tent door in the heat of the day.”
(Exodus 6:2-3)--"God spoke further to Moses and said to him,
"I am the LORD; 3and I appeared to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, as God
Almighty, but by My name, LORD, I did not make Myself known to them.”
(Exodus 24:9-11)--“Then Moses went up with Aaron, Nadab and
Abihu, and seventy of the elders of Israel, 10and they saw the God of
Israel; and under His feet there appeared to be a pavement of
sapphire, as clear as the sky itself. 11Yet He did not stretch out His
hand against the nobles of the sons of Israel; and they saw God, and
they ate and drank.”
(Num. 12:6-8)--“He said, "Hear now My words: If there is a
prophet among you, I, the LORD, shall make Myself known to him in a
vision. I shall speak with him in a dream. 7"Not so, with My servant
Moses, He is faithful in all My household; 8With him I speak mouth to
mouth, Even openly, and not in dark sayings, And he beholds the form
of the LORD. Why then were you not afraid To speak against My servant,
against Moses?"
(Acts 7:2), "And he [Stephen] said, 'Hear me, brethren and
fathers! The God of glory appeared to our father Abraham when he was
in Mesopotamia, before he lived in Haran . . . '"

Has not seen

(Exodus 33:20)--“But He [God] said, "You cannot see My face,
for no man can see Me and live!"
(John 1:18)--“No one has seen God at any time; the only
begotten God who is in the bosom of the Father, He has explained Him.”
(John 5:37)--“"And the Father who sent Me, He has testified of
Me. You have neither heard His voice at any time nor seen His form.”
(John 6:46)--"Not that anyone has seen the Father, except the
One who is from God; He has seen the Father.”
(1 Tim. 6:15-16)--“He who is the blessed and only Sovereign,
the King of kings and Lord of lords, 16who alone possesses immortality
and dwells in unapproachable light, whom no man has seen or can see.
To Him be honour and eternal dominion! Amen.”

---===
Make a deal with The Devil

[duke]

On Thu, 02 Jun 2016 19:10:45 +1000, Lucifer Morningstar <Ba...@saymyname.com>
wrote:

> Has anyone seen God or not?

Nope.

the dukester, American-American

*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
*****

[Lucifer Morningstar]

On Fri, 03 Jun 2016 16:59:37 -0500, duke <duckg...@cox.net> wrote:

>On Thu, 02 Jun 2016 19:10:45 +1000, Lucifer Morningstar <Ba...@saymyname.com>
>wrote:
>
>> Has anyone seen God or not?
>
>Nope.

If you are saying people haven't seen God and haven't
not seen God the bible agrees with you.

>the dukester, American-American

[Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD]

Barry Eisenberg wrote:
> Duke wrote:
>> Barry Eisenberg asked:

"About noon, King Agrippa, as I was on the road, I saw a light from
Heaven, brighter than the Sun, blazing around me and my companions. We
all fell to the ground, and I heard a voice saying to me in
Aramaic,‘Saul, Saul, why do you persecute Me? It is hard for you to
kick against the goads.’ Then I asked, ‘Who are You, LORD?’ ‘I am
Jesus, whom you are persecuting,’ the LORD replied. ‘Now get up and
stand on your feet. I have appeared to you to appoint you as a servant
and as a witness of what you have seen and will see of Me." (Acts
26:13-16)

GOD "dwells in unapproachable light" (1 Timothy 6:16) which is
"brighter than the Sun" (Acts 26:13) so that if allowed to "behold the
form of the LORD" (Numbers 12:8), we'd only be able to look down away
from His face to see "under His feet (that) there appeared to be a
pavement of sapphire, as clear as the sky itself" (Exodus 24:10) and
our faces would be glowing like Moses' reportedly was from being
exposed to light that is "brighter than the Sun" (Acts 26:13).

Barry Heisenberg asked:

> What Would Jesus NOT Do?

Source:
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/sci.med.cardiology/cGsEdDBohnM/5rG4q1LUAwAJ

LORD Jesus Christ of Nazareth would not ask "How are you ?" simply
because He already knows with the latter being consistent with His
being GOD (John 20:28).

And, in keeping with being ever mindful of WDJW ( http://WDJW.net ), I
am wonderfully hungry :-) and hope you, Barry, also have a healthy
appetite too :-)

So how are you ?













... because we mindfully choose to openly care with our heart,

HeartDoc Andrew <><
--
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Emory's IMVC.org cardiologist (GA Lic#040347)
and author of "Trust the Truth - Only the truth can cure the 'hunger
is starvation' delusion:"
http://WDJW.net/T3Book

"no one can say 'Jesus is LORD' except by the Holy Spirit."(1Cor12:3)
http://WDJW.net/1Cor123

What are the Keys of the Kingdom of Heaven?
http://WDJW.net/Matt1619

What is the "hunger is starvation" delusion?
http://bit.ly/TerriblyHungry

[Lucifer Morningstar]

Nothing useful apparently.

How are you Mr Ching?

[Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD]

Barry Heisenberg wrote:

Source:
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/sci.med.cardiology/u1-4wTOL9Yo/mP7jhnMBEQAJ

> Has anyone seen God or not?

The perfect (Matthew 5:48) logical answer to your question is simply
"yes" according to the Holy Spirit-guided exegesis of Biblical verses
given above with all glory ( http://bit.ly/Psalm112_1 ) to GOD :-)

>>Barry Heisenberg asked:
>>
>>> What Would Jesus NOT Do?

Source:
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/sci.med.cardiology/cGsEdDBohnM/5rG4q1LUAwAJ

> Nothing useful apparently.

Indeed everything LORD Jesus Christ of Nazareth does is useful :-)

> How are you HeartDoc Andrew?

I am "wonderfully hungry" ( http://bit.ly/Philippians4_12 ) and hope

[Lucifer Morningstar]

?

>> Has anyone seen God or not?
>
>The perfect (Matthew 5:48) logical answer to your question is simply
>"yes" according to the Holy Spirit-guided exegesis of Biblical verses
>given above

God is the author of confusion.

>>>Barry Heisenberg asked:
>>>
>>>> What Would Jesus NOT Do?
>

>> Nothing useful apparently.

[Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD]

Source:
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/sci.med.cardiology/u1-4wTOL9Yo/mP7jhnMBEQAJ

> Has anyone seen God or not?

The perfect (Matthew 5:48) logical answer to your question is simply
"yes" according to the Holy Spirit-guided exegesis of Biblical verses

given above with all glory ( http://bit.ly/Psalm112_1 ) to GOD :-)

>>Barry Heisenberg asked:
>>
>>> What Would Jesus NOT Do?

Source:
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/sci.med.cardiology/cGsEdDBohnM/5rG4q1LUAwAJ

> Nothing useful apparently.

Indeed everything LORD Jesus Christ of Nazareth does is useful :-)

> How are you HeartDoc Andrew?

Source:
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/sci.med.cardiology/u1-4wTOL9Yo/SQHWVRcDEQAJ

[duke]

On Sat, 04 Jun 2016 08:18:50 +1000, Lucifer Morningstar <Ba...@saymyname.com>

John 1:18 says it all.

[Lucifer Morningstar]

On Sat, 04 Jun 2016 13:28:32 -0500, duke <duckg...@cox.net> wrote:

>On Sat, 04 Jun 2016 08:18:50 +1000, Lucifer Morningstar <Ba...@saymyname.com>
>wrote:
>
>>On Fri, 03 Jun 2016 16:59:37 -0500, duke <duckg...@cox.net> wrote:
>>
>>>On Thu, 02 Jun 2016 19:10:45 +1000, Lucifer Morningstar <Ba...@saymyname.com>
>>>wrote:
>>>
>>>> Has anyone seen God or not?
>>>
>>>Nope.
>>
>>If you are saying people haven't seen God and haven't
>>not seen God the bible agrees with you.
>>
>> Has seen
>>
>>

>> Has not seen
>>
>> (Exodus 33:20)--“But He [God] said, "You cannot see My face,
>>for no man can see Me and live!"
>> (John 1:18)--“No one has seen God at any time; the only
>>begotten God who is in the bosom of the Father, He has explained Him.”
>> (John 5:37)--“"And the Father who sent Me, He has testified of
>>Me. You have neither heard His voice at any time nor seen His form.”
>> (John 6:46)--"Not that anyone has seen the Father, except the
>>One who is from God; He has seen the Father.”
>> (1 Tim. 6:15-16)--“He who is the blessed and only Sovereign,
>>the King of kings and Lord of lords, 16who alone possesses immortality
>>and dwells in unapproachable light, whom no man has seen or can see.
>>To Him be honour and eternal dominion! Amen.”
>
>John 1:18 says it all.

How does that fit in with

(Gen. 17:1)--“Now when Abram was ninety-nine years old, the
LORD appeared to Abram and said to him, "I am God Almighty; Walk
before Me, and be blameless;"
(Gen. 18:1) Now the LORD appeared to him by the oaks of Mamre,
while he was sitting at the tent door in the heat of the day.”
(Exodus 6:2-3)--"God spoke further to Moses and said to him,
"I am the LORD; 3and I appeared to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, as God
Almighty, but by My name, LORD, I did not make Myself known to them.”
(Exodus 24:9-11)--“Then Moses went up with Aaron, Nadab and
Abihu, and seventy of the elders of Israel, 10and they saw the God of
Israel; and under His feet there appeared to be a pavement of
sapphire, as clear as the sky itself. 11Yet He did not stretch out His
hand against the nobles of the sons of Israel; and they saw God, and
they ate and drank.”
(Num. 12:6-8)--“He said, "Hear now My words: If there is a
prophet among you, I, the LORD, shall make Myself known to him in a
vision. I shall speak with him in a dream. 7"Not so, with My servant
Moses, He is faithful in all My household; 8With him I speak mouth to
mouth, Even openly, and not in dark sayings, And he beholds the form
of the LORD. Why then were you not afraid To speak against My servant,
against Moses?"
(Acts 7:2), "And he [Stephen] said, 'Hear me, brethren and
fathers! The God of glory appeared to our father Abraham when he was
in Mesopotamia, before he lived in Haran . . . '"

[Lucifer Morningstar]

Has anyone seen God or not?

Has seen

(Gen. 17:1)--“Now when Abram was ninety-nine years old, the
LORD appeared to Abram and said to him, "I am God Almighty; Walk
before Me, and be blameless;"
(Gen. 18:1) Now the LORD appeared to him by the oaks of Mamre,
while he was sitting at the tent door in the heat of the day.”
(Exodus 6:2-3)--"God spoke further to Moses and said to him,
"I am the LORD; 3and I appeared to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, as God
Almighty, but by My name, LORD, I did not make Myself known to them.”
(Exodus 24:9-11)--“Then Moses went up with Aaron, Nadab and
Abihu, and seventy of the elders of Israel, 10and they saw the God of
Israel; and under His feet there appeared to be a pavement of
sapphire, as clear as the sky itself. 11Yet He did not stretch out His
hand against the nobles of the sons of Israel; and they saw God, and
they ate and drank.”
(Num. 12:6-8)--“He said, "Hear now My words: If there is a
prophet among you, I, the LORD, shall make Myself known to him in a
vision. I shall speak with him in a dream. 7"Not so, with My servant
Moses, He is faithful in all My household; 8With him I speak mouth to
mouth, Even openly, and not in dark sayings, And he beholds the form
of the LORD. Why then were you not afraid To speak against My servant,
against Moses?"
(Acts 7:2), "And he [Stephen] said, 'Hear me, brethren and
fathers! The God of glory appeared to our father Abraham when he was
in Mesopotamia, before he lived in Haran . . . '"

Has not seen

(Exodus 33:20)--“But He [God] said, "You cannot see My face,
for no man can see Me and live!"
(John 1:18)--“No one has seen God at any time; the only
begotten God who is in the bosom of the Father, He has explained Him.”
(John 5:37)--“"And the Father who sent Me, He has testified of
Me. You have neither heard His voice at any time nor seen His form.”
(John 6:46)--"Not that anyone has seen the Father, except the
One who is from God; He has seen the Father.”
(1 Tim. 6:15-16)--“He who is the blessed and only Sovereign,
the King of kings and Lord of lords, 16who alone possesses immortality
and dwells in unapproachable light, whom no man has seen or can see.
To Him be honour and eternal dominion! Amen.”

[duke]

On Sun, 05 Jun 2016 08:22:58 +1000, Lucifer Morningstar <Ba...@saymyname.com>

Just the same as God spoke to moses in a burning bush.

[Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD]

Barry Heisenberg wrote:
> Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote:
>> Barry Eisenberg wrote:
>>> Duke wrote:
>>>> Barry Eisenberg asked:
>>>>

>>>>> Has anyone seen God or not?
>>>>

>>>> Nope.
>>>
>>> If you are saying people haven't seen God and haven't
>>> not seen God the bible agrees with you.
>>>

>> "About noon, King Agrippa, as I was on the road, I saw a light from
>> Heaven, brighter than the Sun, blazing around me and my companions. We
>> all fell to the ground, and I heard a voice saying to me in
>> Aramaic,‘Saul, Saul, why do you persecute Me? It is hard for you to
>> kick against the goads.’ Then I asked, ‘Who are You, LORD?’ ‘I am
>> Jesus, whom you are persecuting,’ the LORD replied. ‘Now get up and
>> stand on your feet. I have appeared to you to appoint you as a servant
>> and as a witness of what you have seen and will see of Me." (Acts
>> 26:13-16)
>>
>> GOD "dwells in unapproachable light" (1 Timothy 6:16) which is
>> "brighter than the Sun" (Acts 26:13) so that if allowed to "behold the
>> form of the LORD" (Numbers 12:8), we'd only be able to look down away
>> from His face to see "under His feet (that) there appeared to be a
>> pavement of sapphire, as clear as the sky itself" (Exodus 24:10) and
>> our faces would be glowing like Moses' reportedly was from being
>> exposed to light that is "brighter than the Sun" (Acts 26:13).

Source:
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/sci.med.cardiology/u1-4wTOL9Yo/mP7jhnMBEQAJ

> Has anyone seen God or not?

The perfect (Matthew 5:48) logical answer to your question is simply
"yes" according to the Holy Spirit-guided exegesis of Biblical verses
given above with all glory ( http://bit.ly/Psalm112_1 ) to GOD :-)

>> Barry Heisenberg asked:
>>
>>> What Would Jesus NOT Do?

>> LORD Jesus Christ of Nazareth would not ask "How are you ?" simply
>> because He already knows with the latter being consistent with His
>> being GOD (John 20:28).

[tesla sTinker]

God is omniscient

He does not physically appear to men unless He wants to, and when He
does, He takes the shape of an angel. And He speaks through the
angels... And He can take the shapes of visions, and can speak thru them.

And He can take the shape of fire, and make it shape itself for Him....
Just because it said He appeared, does not mean an omniscient spirit
appears in the shape that you want Him to appear in of ???

OF which would be???? ? ?

Likely not what someone else would want of of course, since all men are
selfish... Very unpure

And never take the entire Scriptures into account of before they open
their mouth about such light matters... For the angels are closer to
seeing God yes. But only they are the almost capable, besides God the
Son Jesus sees Him of course, for He is Him.

Yet, Fallen angels, do not ever get to see Him, not ever again. for
they go to hell of course.... Same as many others that fall from grace.
The same place that God has sent the Giants to...

The answer is, Yes, they have seen Him. Just as His Holy Book says so...

ap•pear \e-"pir\ [ME apperen, fr. OF aparoir, fr. L apparere, fr. ad- +
parere to show oneself] (13c)
verb intransitive
1 a : to be or come in sight <the sun appears on the horizon>
b : to show up <appears promptly at eight each day>
2 : to come formally before an authoritative body <must appear in court
today>
3 : to have an outward aspect : seem <appears happy enough>
4 : to become evident or manifest <there appears to be evidence to the
contrary>
5 : to come into public view <first appeared on a television variety
show> <the book appeared in print a few years ago>
6 : to come into existence <hominids appeared late in the evolutionary
chain>

(C)1996 Zane Publishing, Inc. and Merriam-Webster, Incorporated. All
rights reserved

--- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: ne...@netfront.net ---

[Carole's Sentient Fungus]

On Sun, 05 Jun 2016 15:37:33 -0700, tesla sTinker
<st...@truecarpentry.net> wrote:

>God is omniscient
>
>He does not physically appear to men unless He wants to, and when He
>does, He takes the shape of an angel.

Well, that's ONE damned fool's improvable opinion.

[Lucifer Morningstar]

On Sun, 05 Jun 2016 15:37:33 -0700, tesla sTinker
<st...@truecarpentry.net> wrote:

[Lucifer Morningstar]

Has anyone seen God or not?

--

[Lucifer Morningstar]

[Gordon]

On Thu, 02 Jun 2016 19:10:45 +1000, Lucifer Morningstar
<Ba...@saymyname.com> wrote:

> Has anyone seen God or not?
>

Of course this depends upon the definition of the word "seen" as it is
used in these passages. Have you ever "seen" what it can do when you
misinterpret a word such as this. Obviously these passages are not
referring to the visual, optical perception of God as a physical
being. Gordon

[Lucifer Morningstar]

On Mon, 27 Jun 2016 07:37:37 -0500, Gordon <gord...@swbell.net>
wrote:

>On Thu, 02 Jun 2016 19:10:45 +1000, Lucifer Morningstar
><Ba...@saymyname.com> wrote:
>
>> Has anyone seen God or not?
>>
>Of course this depends upon the definition of the word "seen" as it is
>used in these passages. Have you ever "seen" what it can do when you
>misinterpret a word such as this. Obviously these passages are not
>referring to the visual, optical perception of God as a physical
>being. Gordon

I know what you mean. Gordon

When the bible talks about God, Jesus, and the supernatural
it does not mean they actually exist.

God is used as a metaphor to show how low a person can
sink when given absolute power.

--

It's actually quite easy for a creationist to make an atheist feel humiliated...
He just has to remind him that they both belong to the same species

[Gordon]

On Mon, 27 Jun 2016 22:52:55 +1000, Lucifer Morningstar

<Ba...@saymyname.com> wrote:

>On Mon, 27 Jun 2016 07:37:37 -0500, Gordon <gord...@swbell.net>
>wrote:
>
>>On Thu, 02 Jun 2016 19:10:45 +1000, Lucifer Morningstar
>><Ba...@saymyname.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Has anyone seen God or not?
>>>
>>Of course this depends upon the definition of the word "seen" as it is
>>used in these passages. Have you ever "seen" what it can do when you
>>misinterpret a word such as this. Obviously these passages are not
>>referring to the visual, optical perception of God as a physical
>>being. Gordon
>
>I know what you mean. Gordon
>
>When the bible talks about God, Jesus, and the supernatural
>it does not mean they actually exist.
>
>God is used as a metaphor to show how low a person can
>sink when given absolute power.
>

I think there is a lot more to this than God being a metaphor. I think
God may be a form of cosmic consciousness that is comprised of some
form of quantum entanglements between all the quarks and/or other sub
atomic particles in the multiverse. These quantum entanglement like
functions may accomplish a form of consciousness similar to that
produced by the synapses of our brains. And, quantum entanglements
interact instantaneously, not restricted to the speed of light. Gordon

[Lucifer Morningstar]

On Mon, 27 Jun 2016 08:17:37 -0500, Gordon <gord...@swbell.net>

Seems unlikely.

[Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD]

BarryH wrote:

> Gordon wrote:
>
>>I think there is a lot more to this than God being a metaphor. I think
>>God may be a form of cosmic consciousness that is comprised of some
>>form of quantum entanglements between all the quarks and/or other sub
>>atomic particles in the multiverse. These quantum entanglement like
>>functions may accomplish a form of consciousness similar to that
>>produced by the synapses of our brains. And, quantum entanglements
>>interact instantaneously, not restricted to the speed of light. Gordon
>
>Seems unlikely.

It is written that with GOD, all things, which includes that which
"seems unlikely," is possible (Matthew 19:26).

Barry Heisenberg wrote in part:
>
> From Greek philosopher Epicurius,
>
> "Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
> Then he is not omnipotent.
> Is he able, but not willing?
> Then he is malevolent.
> Is he both able and willing?
> Then whence cometh evil?
> Is he neither able nor willing?
> Then why call him God?"

This physician ( http://WDJW.net/HeartDoc ) shares that GOD is both
able and willing to prevent evil by helping us successfully
(Philippians 4:13) http://WDJW.net/Guard (Proverbs 4:23) the heart
(Matthew 15:19) which would otherwise drag (Jeremiah 17:9) us to
thinking/saying/writing **and** doing evil as Epicurus has noted.
Those of us who are born again (John 3:3 & 5) can prove that our
benevolent (Jeremiah 9:24) omnipotent GOD exists as explained at
http://WDJW.net/1Cor123

Source:
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/sci.med.cardiology/pdO7EK7kbKM/eHgYzuV7EwAJ

Barry Heisenberg asked:
>
> Is it possible for three people to have a common friend, but have
> wildly different views about him, his views and his character?

It is written that with GOD, all things are possible (Matthew 19:26)

> Wouldn't that indicate that at least two of them, and possibly all
> three of them, were mistaken, or lying?

It is written that we are Jesus' friends (John 15:14) if we love (John
15:12) each other as He loves (John 15:13) us and that we, who are
Jesus' friends are recognized (John 13:35) by this greater (John
15:13) love that we have for one another.

Just as Jesus loves us by convincing us of our needs as in the example
of His convincing Peter of his needing his feet washed by Him, we love
one another when we http://WDJW.net/ConvinceItForward our need to
always say/write that we're "wonderfully hungry" (
http://bit.ly/Philippians4_12 ) in **all** ways including especially
caring to "convince it forward."

> Well, why can't people who claim to have a personal relationship with
> Jesus agree on what he wants and what he's like?

Actually, all who **show** that they personally know (1 John 4:8) GOD
will agree it's written that "GOD is love" :-)

Source:
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/sci.med.cardiology/pdO7EK7kbKM/Vn8ZMz7VEgAJ

Barry Heisenberg wrote:
> Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote:
>> Barry Heisenberg wrote:
>>> Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote:

>>>> Duke wrote:
>>>>> Barry Heisenberg wrote:
>>>>>> Duke wrote:
>>>>>>> Barry Heisenberg asked:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pwf6QD-REMY
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Absolutely yes.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So it is meaningless to say God is good.
>>>>>
>>>>> We already know that.
>>>>
>>>> Indeed it is written that **only** GOD is good (Matthew 19:17).
>>
>>> It is also written you should not believe everything you read.
>>
>> Actually it's **not** written in the Bible that "you should not
>> believe everything you read."
>
> There is much missing in the bible.

Indeed, the most important thing that is missing in the Bible is
Apostle Paul's secret ( http://bit.ly/Philippians4_12 ) concerning how
to be hungry and satisfied at the same time.

>> Instead, what's written in the Bible is that all Scripture (2 Timothy
>> 3:16) is useful for learning about what is right.

Source:
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/sci.med.cardiology/13BKRyaSmG0/RBYUk83pEQAJ

> As long as you think genocide is right.

It is written that we're not to lean on our own understanding
(Proverbs 3:5) but to instead trust the LORD our Mighty (Isaiah 9:6)
GOD with all our heart, which means to lean on Him to "learn about
what is right."

Source:
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/sci.med.cardiology/Cw1-qgKTcpI/tFpT5itVEgAJ

Barry Heisenberg wrote:
> Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote:
>> Barry Eisenberg wrote:
>>> Duke wrote:
>>>> Barry Eisenberg asked:
>>>>

>>>>> Has anyone seen God or not?
>>>>

>>>> Nope.

>>>
>>> If you are saying people haven't seen God and haven't
>>> not seen God the bible agrees with you.
>>>

>> "About noon, King Agrippa, as I was on the road, I saw a light from
>> Heaven, brighter than the Sun, blazing around me and my companions. We
>> all fell to the ground, and I heard a voice saying to me in
>> Aramaic,‘Saul, Saul, why do you persecute Me? It is hard for you to
>> kick against the goads.’ Then I asked, ‘Who are You, LORD?’ ‘I am
>> Jesus, whom you are persecuting,’ the LORD replied. ‘Now get up and
>> stand on your feet. I have appeared to you to appoint you as a servant
>> and as a witness of what you have seen and will see of Me." (Acts
>> 26:13-16)
>>
>> GOD "dwells in unapproachable light" (1 Timothy 6:16) which is
>> "brighter than the Sun" (Acts 26:13) so that if allowed to "behold the
>> form of the LORD" (Numbers 12:8), we'd only be able to look down away
>> from His face to see "under His feet (that) there appeared to be a
>> pavement of sapphire, as clear as the sky itself" (Exodus 24:10) and
>> our faces would be glowing like Moses' reportedly was from being
>> exposed to light that is "brighter than the Sun" (Acts 26:13).

Source:
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/sci.med.cardiology/u1-4wTOL9Yo/mP7jhnMBEQAJ

> Has anyone seen God **or** not?

**emphasis** added.

The perfect (Matthew 5:48) **logical** answer to your question is

[Francher]

Wow Gordon, that is about the best guess about God that I have heard.
The bad news is that it may be a God that does not care about us. The
amount of horrible stuff that occurs here seems to indicate that we are
on our own. I worked with a Jew for a few years who belonged to a sect
that believed that we should never use the word "God". That was because
it meant we were defining "God". I felt he was right about that, but
here I am using that word. I have no clue what that God word means, but
I like your conjecture the best so far. Maybe that quantum entanglement
extends through our entire universe and even into the multiverse. My
brain just overloaded thinking about that.

Francher

[Gordon]

On Tue, 28 Jun 2016 14:22:23 -0500, Francher <donot...@noreply.net>
wrote:

Thanks Francher, for your comments. My assessments concerning the
amount of horrible stuff that we are now going through is that this is
a very necessary part of the maturation process that God has set up
for us. We must learn enough about all the individual and collective
effects of all forms of sin and rebellion to assure God that NONE of
us will EVER want to go back and explore things in this realm again,
once we have been moved on to immortality and absolute sovereignty.

Preprogramming us as puppets would not have given us absolute
sovereignty.

Intimidating us into compliance as slaves would not have given us
absolute sovereignty.

The only way that works is to let us learn by experience and direct
involvement in all the vagaries of sin and rebellion that exist. This
has been going on since humans were first created. We are learning,
individually and we will also have all the learning that others have
gained throughout the ages, once we move on to immortality.

This is not because God is harsh or uncaring. It is because there
simply is no other way to get us to the level that God wants us to
mature to.

And, one more thing to keep in mind...God's time scale is not the same
as ours. On our time scale it seems like this has been a very long
span of time but on God's eternity time scale it may be only an
instant. Gordon

[Enquiring minds want to know]

On Mon, 27 Jun 2016 07:37:37 -0500, Gordon <gord...@swbell.net>
wrote:

>On Thu, 02 Jun 2016 19:10:45 +1000, Lucifer Morningstar
><Ba...@saymyname.com> wrote:
>
>> Has anyone seen God or not?
>>
>Of course this depends upon the definition of the word "seen" as it is
>used in these passages. Have you ever "seen" what it can do when you
>misinterpret a word such as this. Obviously these passages are not
>referring to the visual, optical perception of God as a physical
>being. Gordon

But it also depends on the definition of the word "God".
Some people see god in a flower or a child's smile.
Some people see god in the bottom of a bottle.

Everything is relative except when its not.


--
Enquiring minds want to know


The pharmaceutical industry is based on myths and lies
http://www.pharmamyths.net/

Institutional Corruption of Pharmaceuticals and the Myth of Safe and
Effective Drugs
http://www.pharmamyths.net/files/JLME_ARTICLE_2013.pdf

Big Pharma Pockets $711 Billion in Profits by Price-Gouging Taxpayers
and Seniors
http://healthcareforamericanow.org/2013/04/08/pharma-711-billion-profits-price-gouging-seniors/

Pharmaceutical Companies Spent 19 Times More On Self-Promotion Than
Basic Research: Report
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/08/09/pharmaceutical-companies-marketing_n_1760380.html

[dolf]

On 29/06/2016 10:51, Enquiring minds want to know wrote:
> On Mon, 27 Jun 2016 07:37:37 -0500, Gordon <gord...@swbell.net>
> wrote:
>
>> On Thu, 02 Jun 2016 19:10:45 +1000, Lucifer Morningstar
>> <Ba...@saymyname.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Has anyone seen God or not?
>>>
>> Of course this depends upon the definition of the word "seen" as it is
>> used in these passages. Have you ever "seen" what it can do when you
>> misinterpret a word such as this. Obviously these passages are not
>> referring to the visual, optical perception of God as a physical
>> being. Gordon
>

And some see god by means of a wedding ring on their finger-Hail God of
Hymen...

> But it also depends on the definition of the word "God".
> Some people see god in a flower or a child's smile.
> Some people see god in the bottom of a bottle.
>
> Everything is relative except when its not.
>

-- [I WARNED THEM OF AN IMPENDING CURSE] CATHOLIC ANTI-SEMITISM IS
UNREMORSED: IT'S TIME THE IMPUDENT, IMPOTENT & LYING POPE FRANCIS TOOK
ACTION

(c) 2016 Dolf Leendert Boek, Revision: 29 June, 2016

"Ye do the deeds of your father.

Then said they to him, 'We be not born of fornication; we have one
Father, even God.'

Jesus {savior; deliverer} said unto them, 'If God were your Father, ye
would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I
of myself, but he sent me.

Why do ye not understand my speech?

Even because ye cannot hear my word.

Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do.

He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth,
because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of
his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not.

Which of you convinceth me of sin?

And if I say the truth, why do ye not believe me?

He that is of God heareth God’s words: ye therefore hear them not,
because ye are not of God.'

Then answered the Jews, and said unto him, 'Say we not well that thou
art a Samaritan {watch-mountain}, and hast a devil?'

Jesus {savior; deliverer} answered, 'I have not a devil; but I honour my
Father, and ye do dishonour me.'" [John 8:41-49 (KJV)]

The following American persons of Roman Catholic religious belief have
engaged within unremorsed Anti-Semitic (Judaeo-Christian) conduct:

- DUKE (CATHOLIC) EARL WEBER <duckg...@cox.net>
- ROD (CATHOLIC) EASTMAN <nhra...@gmail.com>
- PATRICK (CATHOLIC) BARKER <pbark...@woh.rr.com>

I'm disseminating this complaint publicly so there is appropriate action
taken by the hierarchy of the Roman Catholic Church to intervene,
rectify and cease this Internet anti-semitic conduct--and to apologize
with an appropriate reparation given such gravitas.

YOUTUBE VIDEO: "Hozier - Take Me To Church"

- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PVjiKRfKpPI

dolf: "Well, then make yourselves an altar (eg. sacrifice someone/thing
on/at the altar of) so as to wail, gibber and squawk impunities of
questionable intent, by getting cut up about it all."

I think the idea comes from the story of the prophet Elijah (ie. God the
Lord, the strong Lord) having a stand-off with the priests of Baal: [1
Kings 18:24-39 (KJV)]"

Skeet DoW #420 (skeeter@kooks): "It was one of my better moments."

dolf: "Managing flystrike on *wethered* sheep.

Wethers (ie. castrated) are less aggressive than rams:

'Preventing flystrike is more economical than treating it. Short term
management tools such as *strategic* *chemical* *application*,
*crutching* and shearing, and controlling worms and *dags* will be
beneficial in the short term, whilst producers looking for a longer term
solution should investigate genetic options such as *breeding* for
reduced *dags* and *wrinkle*.'"

PICK WHICH APPLIES

1) But what complaint can a senile impotent prick, a dag festering
arsehole and a coward with no balls ('wethered') that you are--by hiding
under a cloak of anonymity, when you can only bleat (ie. speak or
complain in a weak, querulous, or foolish way) as an onomatopoeia.

2) As you are without any *foundation* and have the moral scruples of a
dag festering ANAL-SADISTIC (ie. displaying abnormal aggressive and
destructive tendencies supposedly caused by fixation at the anal stage
of development) MAGGOT--anti-semitic that you are.

3) That the dag *festering* anal-sadistic (ie. displaying abnormal
aggressive and destructive tendencies supposedly caused by fixation at
the anal stage of development) maggot Roman Catholic street protesters
can now eat shit (an exclamation expressing anger or contempt for, or
rejection of, someone) and f@ck off.

- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5w0Vzjf0b5M

UNREQUITED RESPONSES:

ROD (CATHOLIC) EASTMAN: "Dolf... in your muted ramblings... is there a
point to be made?"

ROD (CATHOLIC) EASTMAN: "I hate to break it to you Dolf ole' bean... but
Ashkenazim Jews are Europeans without the genetic trait [AND] trying to
steal the inheritance of the real Jews. The real Jews, are alive and
well in spite of Satan's efforts to find and eradicate them.

And it is God that protects them... you will NEVER get to them, EVER.

So file your lawsuits and shut up!"

ROD (CATHOLIC) EASTMAN: "All of them describe you, Dolf, particularly
#3, displaying abnormal aggressive and destructive tendencies supposedly
caused by fixation at the anal stage of development."

"Then Eliakim {resurrection of God}, Shebna {who rests himself; who is
now captive}, and Joah {fraternity; brother of the Lord} said to
Rabshakeh {cup-bearer of the prince; chief of the princes}, 'Pray, speak
with your servants in Aramaic {highness, magnificence, one that
deceives; *curse*}, for we understand it; do not speak with us in the
language of Judah {the praise of the Lord; confession} before the people
who are on the *wall*.'

But Rabshakeh said, 'Has my master sent me to speak these words against
your master and against you, and not against the men sitting on the
*wall*, who are doomed with you to eat their own dung and drink their
own urine ([KJV]: piss) in the *siege*?'

The Rabshakeh stood and cried out in a loud voice in the language of
Judah: 'Hear the words of the great king, the king of Assyria {who is
happy; or walks; or looks}!

Thus says the king, 'Do not let Hezekiah {strength of the Lord} deceive
you, for he will not be able to deliver you.'

Do not let Hezekiah make you rely on the Memra of the LORD by saying,
'The LORD will surely deliver us; this city will not be handed over into
the hand of the king of Assyria.'" [(c) 1990 The Order of Saint
Benedict, Isaiah 36:11-15 (Aramaic Targum]

"Pope Francis says Christians should apologise to gay people.

The pontiff says Church teachings dictate that gay people should not be
discriminated against, but respected.

The Church teaches that homosexuality is not sinful but homosexual acts
are, and that homosexuals should try to be chaste.

Francis repeated a slightly modified version of the now-famous 'Who am I
to judge?' comment he made about gay people on the first foreign trip
after his election in 2013.

'The questions is: if a person who has that condition, who has good
will, and who looks for God, who are we to judge?'

Vatican spokesman Father Federico Lombardi said that the pope, by saying
'has that condition', did not imply a medical condition but 'a person in
that situation'. In Italian, the word 'condition' can also mean 'situation'.

'We Christians have to apologise for so many things, not just for this
(treatment of gay people), but we must ask for forgiveness, not just
apologise; forgiveness. Lord, it is a word we forget so often.' he said.

Pope Francis said on Sunday that Christians and the Roman Catholic
Church should seek forgiveness from gay people for the way they had
treated them." [(c) The Guardian Newspaper, "Pope Francis says
Christians should apologise to gay people", 0655 hours 27 June, 2016]

-
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jun/26/pope-francis-says-christians-should-apologise-to-gay-people.

It's too late for the Roman Catholic Church to apologize, and the recent
statements by Pope Francis, aren't sufficiently remorseful, just
platitudes, immaterially non-specific without any compulsion as tangible
reparation for grievous sin and blasphemy--just pissing in the wind.

They are *cursed* by God Almighty:

I said as much: 'You are cursed, you are cursed, you are thrice cursed',
one day within their arch-diocese Melbourne offices after having given
them, as their only bestowal of mercy, a preliminary copy of my GRAPPLE
HOMOIOTIC NOUMENON.

They know it to be a matter of fact.

YOUTUBE VIDEO: "Apologize" (c) 2007 Timbaland - One Republic from
'Dreaming Out Loud' album

- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZSM3w1v-A_Y

"Who is a liar but he that denieth that {savior; deliverer} is the Christ?

He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.

Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: (but) he that
acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.

Let that therefore abide in you, which ye have heard from the beginning.

If that which ye have heard from the beginning shall remain in you, ye
also shall continue in the Son, and in the Father.

And this is the promise that he hath promised us, even eternal life.

These things have I written unto you concerning them that seduce you.

But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye
need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you
of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught
you, ye shall abide in him." [1 John 2:22-27 (KJV)]

What faithfulness, dignity, integrity and honor can they possibly bestow
as unprincipled, unscrupulous, dishonest and depraved individuals?

Who are no doubt driven by an unrestrained tumultuous and animalistic
nature--for which national ethos they ought to serve an indeterminate
term (ie. depends on what you are capable of from one moment to the
next) as prison sentence.

Got the gist of it now?"

Colonel (Atheist/Buddhist) Burke: "Wot's a dag, Dolf?"

Is it edible?"

dolf: "It's wool matted dung which hangs from a sheep's arse, that often
*festers* as a wound and gets riddled with maggots--it's not pleasant:

How strangely can that miscreant enchanter, who is my enemy,
transmogrify things to thwart me?

Know [this] Sancho {truthful and sincere, Saint, Holy}, that it is a
very easy matter for necromancers to make us assume what[ever] shapes
they please; and the malicious wretch who persecutes me, envying the
glory I should have gained in this battle, hath doubtless metamorphosed
the squadrons of the foe, into flocks of sheep ..." [Miguel de Cervantes
(1547-1616), translated by Tobias Smollett, Don Quixote, 1755; Courtesy:
Word of the Day, www.dictionary.com]

Ugly one (andy6...@gmail.com): "What a fruit cake!!!"

dolf: "Four words don't convey any substance of an informed opinion.

After all, your comment is directed towards my 31 pages of lawyer
briefing notes as "Q&A Musings On BREXIT" with respects to my filing
particulars of a *suit* *at* *law* with appropriate Legal Attorneys by
email at 1735 hours on 26 June, 2016 (AEST).

Following an earlier enquiry to the Referral Service of the Law
Institute of Victoria on 16 June, 2016 with a 'summary of particulars of
complaint' in order to 'obtain a favourable and successful outcome in
the circumstance of there being a lack for any 'definitive, adequate and
categorical parameterisation' of my prioritized legal claim (ie. which
occurs on their www-page).

So as to appropriately characterise which legal faculty as practice area
of law: 'Administrative & Constitutional + Insurance Disputes' is most
relevant.

My instructions to the lawyer, is that I possess the 'capability (ie. as
coherent, lucid and integral apperception) to effectively prosecute the
composite and compounding civil and criminal matters:

'All I require, is for the legal practice to undertake the necessary
legal process (ie. which is entirely within their means and affords no
grounds for refusal) before an appropriate Court of Legal Jurisdiction
(ie. Supreme Court) with sufficient diligence, rigour and fiduciary
care, such that it's undertaking is unprejudiced by any manner
whatsoever, neither by any acts of commission or omission and conforms
to all necessary considerations of judicial rules, legal practice and
principles in full accordance with the law.

...

So that the complainant 'ought to be challenged within an appropriate
court of law to give such an accountability for his actions.

And failing which, he is held subject to any civil and consequential
criminal liabilities (ie. false report to police, perjury and perverting
the course of justice by criminal and willful conduct having the
gravitas of treason arising from the Corporate actions taken) within
their appropriate jurisdictions.

I have prepared various statements in relation to further aspects of the
claim which gives substance to my actions and have been published on
Facebook, however the "Lawyer Briefing - Q&A Musings on BREXIT" Portable
Document Format gives a good summary.

Should you have any particular questions, I can invariably direct you to
which of these are appropriate as required.

Thank-you for your considerations with this matter."

Can you give a more reasoned, logical statement in refutation and by
which we can determine your presumption of rationality?

But they are a reflection upon your being a self-opinionated narcissist,
who is nothing more than a bastard son of Heidegger and a Babylonian
whore (ie. promiscuous relative to being and time)."

A court-certified expert on extremism who once worked as an attorney for
the Southern Poverty Law Center before becoming a criminology professor
has a powerful message for academia: "If it really supports diversity,
let conservative students and speakers have their say on campus.

'We can't just give lip service to diversity of ideas,' Professor Brian
Levin said in a recent telephone interview with The College Fix. 'The
academia has to realize that there are people of goodwill on both sides,
and they have an obligation to respect the entire spectrum of viewpoints.'

The comments come in an era of hypersensitivity, when political
correctness often reigns supreme on college campuses.

Levin, director of Cal State University of San Bernardino's nonpartisan
Center for the Study of Hate & Extremism, passionately diverges with
much of academia, which enforces campus speech codes and similar
policies and programs that limit speech some find offensive.

'As the son of a Nazi-era prisoner of war and grandson of immigrants
from totalitarian regimes, I have the same appreciation that most
Americans share for the special *gift* that our system of civil, yet
uncensored, discourse has given to the world,'

Levin explains on the center's website:

- http://hatemonitor.csusb.edu/

Citing examples such as conservative speakers being disinvited from
campuses, Levin said, he believes: "it's a disgrace that we don't have
more conservative voices of goodwill on college campuses. The academia
has been far too dismissive of conservative viewpoints." [26 June 2016,
Williams Nardi, Roger Williams University, "'Hate and extremism' expert
says campus conservatism faces discrimination, suppression"]

- http://www.thecollegefix.com/post/27976/

dolf: "This second part has followed upon those earlier lawyer briefing
notes and details God's act of grace accompanying my goodwill *gift*
towards the Melbourne Fertility Control Clinic in resolving their
perennial pestilent problem of now over decades duration, involving
predominantly Roman Catholic, but not exclusively, as murderous
anti-abortionist street protestors.

How readest thou?"

- dolf

SEE ALSO: "The Wet Biscuit Limits Your Religious Belief As Eucharist To
Yourself Only!" of 25-27 June, 2016

-
https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=473659979494510&id=100005515364934

SEE ALSO: "Q&A Musings On BREXIT" of 25-26 June 2016

-
https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=473005259559982&id=100005515364934

Initial Post: 28 June, 2016

[Enquiring minds want to know]

On Wed, 29 Jun 2016 11:40:15 +1000, dolf <dolf...@hotmail.com> wrote:

>On 29/06/2016 10:51, Enquiring minds want to know wrote:
>> On Mon, 27 Jun 2016 07:37:37 -0500, Gordon <gord...@swbell.net>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On Thu, 02 Jun 2016 19:10:45 +1000, Lucifer Morningstar
>>> <Ba...@saymyname.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Has anyone seen God or not?
>>>>
>>> Of course this depends upon the definition of the word "seen" as it is
>>> used in these passages. Have you ever "seen" what it can do when you
>>> misinterpret a word such as this. Obviously these passages are not
>>> referring to the visual, optical perception of God as a physical
>>> being. Gordon
>>
>
>And some see god by means of a wedding ring on their finger-Hail God of
>Hymen...

Or a big sexual parts in a bloke.
It is so bad that a bloke with small bits won't get undressed on a
locker room full of dudes.

>
>> But it also depends on the definition of the word "God".
>> Some people see god in a flower or a child's smile.
>> Some people see god in the bottom of a bottle.
>>
>> Everything is relative except when its not.
>>
>

Seriously, what's wrong with the world is that too many people are
brainwashed to think their religion is the only true religion.
But that's how the global controllers like it. So much easier to start
wars by pitting one religion against another.




--

Enquiring minds want to know

Twenty-Five Ways To Suppress Truth: The Rules of Disinformation
http://www.pnl-nlp.org/download/propaganda/page4.htm

Plausible deniability
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plausible_deniability
"The term most often refers to the capacity of senior officials in a
formal or informal chain of command to deny knowledge of and/or
responsibility for any damnable actions ..."


"The smart way to keep people passive and obedient is to strictly
limit the spectrum of acceptable opinion, but allow very lively debate
within that spectrum." -- Noam Chomsky
“Conspiracy” = An agreement between two or more persons to commit a
crime. An illegal, wrongful, or subversive act.





\

[Gordon]

> Which religion fits in with our modern scientific understanding? I find no congruencies between any religion and Science in general other than Christianity.

In the beginning, God created...
There was a beginning...

The Earth was without form (matter) and void (empty space)...
It all started as a point with no matter or empty space...

God said, "Let there be light and there was light..."
Light was produced after the Big Bang had expanded enough to form
atoms with valence electrons that could emit light...

God separated the light from the darkness...
Initially all matter was almost uniformly spread across the cosmos,
then random variations caused this matter to start clumping into what
became stars. When this process matured the light (stars) was
separated from the darkness (empty space)...

And so on and on.... Gordon

[Clay]

On 6/29/2016 7:02 AM, "Enquiring minds want to know" aka another sock of

Carole wrote:
> On Wed, 29 Jun 2016 11:40:15 +1000, dolf <dolf...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On 29/06/2016 10:51, Enquiring minds want to know wrote:
>>> On Mon, 27 Jun 2016 07:37:37 -0500, Gordon <gord...@swbell.net>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Thu, 02 Jun 2016 19:10:45 +1000, Lucifer Morningstar
>>>> <Ba...@saymyname.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Has anyone seen God or not?
>>>>>
>>>> Of course this depends upon the definition of the word "seen" as it is
>>>> used in these passages. Have you ever "seen" what it can do when you
>>>> misinterpret a word such as this. Obviously these passages are not
>>>> referring to the visual, optical perception of God as a physical
>>>> being. Gordon
>>
>> And some see god by means of a wedding ring on their finger-Hail God of
>> Hymen...
>
> Or a big sexual parts in a bloke.
> It is so bad that a bloke with small bits won't get undressed on a
> locker room full of dudes.

How would Carole know what goes on in a men's locker room?
Why would she be interested?

>>> But it also depends on the definition of the word "God".
>>> Some people see god in a flower or a child's smile.
>>> Some people see god in the bottom of a bottle.
>>>
>>> Everything is relative except when its not.
>
> Seriously, what's wrong with the world is that too many people are
> brainwashed to think their religion is the only true religion.
> But that's how the global controllers like it.

Notice that no "global controllers" are listed individually by name.

> So much easier to start wars by pitting one religion against
> another.

Notice that no wars or religions are cited.

Carole <-- an embarrassment in the land down under.

[Carson]

On Wed, 29 Jun 2016 21:02:52 +1000, Enquiring minds want to know aka
Carole <enquiri...@bigpond.com> wrote:

>On Wed, 29 Jun 2016 11:40:15 +1000, dolf <dolf...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>>On 29/06/2016 10:51, Enquiring minds want to know wrote:
>>> On Mon, 27 Jun 2016 07:37:37 -0500, Gordon <gord...@swbell.net>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Thu, 02 Jun 2016 19:10:45 +1000, Lucifer Morningstar
>>>> <Ba...@saymyname.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Has anyone seen God or not?
>>>>>
>>>> Of course this depends upon the definition of the word "seen" as it is
>>>> used in these passages. Have you ever "seen" what it can do when you
>>>> misinterpret a word such as this. Obviously these passages are not
>>>> referring to the visual, optical perception of God as a physical
>>>> being. Gordon
>>
>>And some see god by means of a wedding ring on their finger-Hail God of
>>Hymen...
>
>Or a big sexual parts in a bloke.
>It is so bad that a bloke with small bits won't get undressed on a
>locker room full of dudes.

Carole is a man-hater.

[Lucifer Morningstar]

On Tue, 28 Jun 2016 15:45:34 -0500, Gordon <gord...@swbell.net>
wrote:

>On Tue, 28 Jun 2016 14:22:23 -0500, Francher <donot...@noreply.net>
>wrote:
>

So you and I are collateral damage while God plays his games?

>Preprogramming us as puppets would not have given us absolute
>sovereignty.
>
>Intimidating us into compliance as slaves would not have given us
>absolute sovereignty.

Why did God make us slaves?

>The only way that works is to let us learn by experience and direct
>involvement in all the vagaries of sin and rebellion that exist. This
>has been going on since humans were first created. We are learning,
>individually and we will also have all the learning that others have
>gained throughout the ages, once we move on to immortality.
>
>This is not because God is harsh or uncaring. It is because there
>simply is no other way to get us to the level that God wants us to
>mature to.

It is because God is weak?

>And, one more thing to keep in mind...God's time scale is not the same
>as ours. On our time scale it seems like this has been a very long
>span of time but on God's eternity time scale it may be only an
>instant. Gordon

Therefore God does not understand us.

[Gordon]

On Thu, 30 Jun 2016 08:47:29 +1000, Lucifer Morningstar

It isn't a matter of God playing games with us. It is a matter of God
providing the training ground that we must go through in order to
acquire a sufficient level of understanding of the effects of evil.
Without this learning phase none of us would be suitable for moving on
into immortality and absolute sovereignty. We MUST learn, even if it
is a harsh process. Gordon

>
>>Preprogramming us as puppets would not have given us absolute
>>sovereignty.
>>
>>Intimidating us into compliance as slaves would not have given us
>>absolute sovereignty.
>
>Why did God make us slaves?
>

We are NOT slaves and NEVER will be. We are students, so to speak and
we are going through a very harsh learning phase, but there was/is no
other way we could be matured to the level of knowledge/understanding
that we need before we can be granted immortality and absolute
sovereignty. Gordon

>>The only way that works is to let us learn by experience and direct
>>involvement in all the vagaries of sin and rebellion that exist. This
>>has been going on since humans were first created. We are learning,
>>individually and we will also have all the learning that others have
>>gained throughout the ages, once we move on to immortality.
>>
>>This is not because God is harsh or uncaring. It is because there
>>simply is no other way to get us to the level that God wants us to
>>mature to.
>
>It is because God is weak?
>

Nope! God is not weak! God is all knowing and omnipotent. God does
place some restrictions upon Himself and he cannot break the rules in
this realm. God cannot lie or be deceptive. God cannot embrace evil.
Etc.

We are the weak ones but we are gaining strength and knowledge. We
will graduate some day and move on to absolute sovereignty and
immortality. Gordon

>
>>And, one more thing to keep in mind...God's time scale is not the same
>>as ours. On our time scale it seems like this has been a very long
>>span of time but on God's eternity time scale it may be only an
>>instant. Gordon
>
>Therefore God does not understand us.
>

God understands us perfectly and totally. It is us who don't yet
understand all that is going on. We must take a lot of this on faith
and faith alone, since our minds are not capable of understanding it
all in totality. Gordon

[Lucifer Morningstar]

On Wed, 29 Jun 2016 18:48:00 -0500, Gordon <gord...@swbell.net>

Or God could have created us with that knowledge built in.

>>>Preprogramming us as puppets would not have given us absolute
>>>sovereignty.
>>>
>>>Intimidating us into compliance as slaves would not have given us
>>>absolute sovereignty.
>>
>>Why did God make us slaves?
>>
>We are NOT slaves and NEVER will be.

We are slaves to our brain.
Why do Down's Syndrome adults behave like children?
People don't choose to be pedophiles or homosexuals.

>We are students, so to speak and
>we are going through a very harsh learning phase, but there was/is no
>other way we could be matured to the level of knowledge/understanding
>that we need before we can be granted immortality and absolute
>sovereignty. Gordon

Is God too stupid to know he could have made us that way from
the beginning?

>>>The only way that works is to let us learn by experience and direct
>>>involvement in all the vagaries of sin and rebellion that exist. This
>>>has been going on since humans were first created. We are learning,
>>>individually and we will also have all the learning that others have
>>>gained throughout the ages, once we move on to immortality.
>>>
>>>This is not because God is harsh or uncaring. It is because there
>>>simply is no other way to get us to the level that God wants us to
>>>mature to.
>>
>>It is because God is weak?
>>
>Nope! God is not weak! God is all knowing and omnipotent. God does
>place some restrictions upon Himself and he cannot break the rules in
>this realm. God cannot lie or be deceptive. God cannot embrace evil.
>Etc.

Yet you say God is forced to follow your inefficient method.

>We are the weak ones but we are gaining strength and knowledge. We
>will graduate some day and move on to absolute sovereignty and
>immortality. Gordon

I am confused. You say God is not weak yet God is forced to
follow your plan.

>>>And, one more thing to keep in mind...God's time scale is not the same
>>>as ours. On our time scale it seems like this has been a very long
>>>span of time but on God's eternity time scale it may be only an
>>>instant. Gordon
>>
>>Therefore God does not understand us.
>>
>God understands us perfectly and totally. It is us who don't yet
>understand all that is going on. We must take a lot of this on faith
>and faith alone, since our minds are not capable of understanding it
>all in totality. Gordon

You appear to understand it all. Are you God?

[A little knowledge]

On Wed, 29 Jun 2016 07:33:52 -0500, Gordon <gord...@swbell.net>

No, there was not a beginning.
If there was a beginning, what came before that beginning?

>
>The Earth was without form (matter) and void (empty space)...
>It all started as a point with no matter or empty space...

This is what is in the bible.
I don't necessarily believe the bible.

Circular reasoning, also known as 'Begging the question'
http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/begging-the-question.html
eg of Begging the Question
Bill: "God must exist."
Jill: "How do you know."
Bill: "Because the Bible says so."
Jill: "Why should I believe the Bible?"
Bill: "Because the Bible was written by God [and god never lies]"

>
>God said, "Let there be light and there was light..."
>Light was produced after the Big Bang had expanded enough to form
>atoms with valence electrons that could emit light...

But what was before the big bang?
And who created god?
God always was ...he / she / it lives in eternity where there is no
beginning or ending.

>
>God separated the light from the darkness...
>Initially all matter was almost uniformly spread across the cosmos,
>then random variations caused this matter to start clumping into what
>became stars. When this process matured the light (stars) was
>separated from the darkness (empty space)...
>
>And so on and on.... Gordon

People shouldn't quote the bible -- it is full of irregularities,
contradictions and anomalies.

God gave people a brain.
People are expected to think with their brains.

Biblical contradictions
http://infidels.org/library/modern/jim_meritt/bible-contradictions.html

It takes some courage to think for yourself.
God mightn't like it, maybe you think god wants people to believe the
bible unconditionally, and if they don't he will send them to hell.
Maybe, maybe not.

I don't really think we have enough information to follow any
religion.
If god wants us to follow any particular religion he should give us
better sources of information. Until that time, I will keep using my
own brain to think things out for myself. Anybody who says I am going
to hell, how do they know? We are all mind controlled from an early
age to believe this and that. We need to break free fromt he
conditioning and think for ourselves.


--
A little knowledge is a dangerous thing


http://www.collective-evolution.com/2013/01/07/the-origin-of-education-and-mandatory-schooling/
"From an early age, we are forced into a mandatory school system that
requires and encourages youth to attend for a large portion of their
human life, for six hours a day. Each child is required to learn the
accepted version of reality in order to fit into the specific mold
desired by the elite. Just like television, a large part of school is
simply programming. It’s ironic how the same families behind the
funding are responsible for many inhumane atrocities that took place
throughout history. They are also behind big oil, big pharma, food and
other industries that are becoming more transparent as of late. Kids
who do not fit into the system and do not resonate with it are usually
labelled and medicated. Essentially, the whole point of school is to
shape the reality of the student."

[Gys de Jongh]

On 30-Jun-16 07:11, A little knowledge wrote:
> No, there was not a beginning.
> If there was a beginning, what came before that beginning?

No there is no North Pole.
If there was a North Pole, what is North of the North Pole?

[Lucifer Morningstar]

The firmament?

[Gordon]

On Thu, 30 Jun 2016 12:19:13 +1000, Lucifer Morningstar

<Ba...@saymyname.com> wrote:

>On Wed, 29 Jun 2016 18:48:00 -0500, Gordon <gord...@swbell.net>
>wrote:
>
>>On Thu, 30 Jun 2016 08:47:29 +1000, Lucifer Morningstar
>><Ba...@saymyname.com> wrote:
>>
>>>On Tue, 28 Jun 2016 15:45:34 -0500, Gordon <gord...@swbell.net>
>>>wrote:
>>>

<snip>

>>>>>Francher
>>>>>
>>>>Thanks Francher, for your comments. My assessments concerning the
>>>>amount of horrible stuff that we are now going through is that this is
>>>>a very necessary part of the maturation process that God has set up
>>>>for us. We must learn enough about all the individual and collective
>>>>effects of all forms of sin and rebellion to assure God that NONE of
>>>>us will EVER want to go back and explore things in this realm again,
>>>>once we have been moved on to immortality and absolute sovereignty.
>>>
>>>So you and I are collateral damage while God plays his games?
>>>
>>It isn't a matter of God playing games with us. It is a matter of God
>>providing the training ground that we must go through in order to
>>acquire a sufficient level of understanding of the effects of evil.
>>Without this learning phase none of us would be suitable for moving on
>>into immortality and absolute sovereignty. We MUST learn, even if it
>>is a harsh process. Gordon
>
>Or God could have created us with that knowledge built in.
>

Would we have been anything other than preprogrammed puppets had God
done this way? Sovereign will is the main intent in this process.
Gordon

>
>>>>Preprogramming us as puppets would not have given us absolute
>>>>sovereignty.
>>>>
>>>>Intimidating us into compliance as slaves would not have given us
>>>>absolute sovereignty.
>>>
>>>Why did God make us slaves?
>>>
>>We are NOT slaves and NEVER will be.
>
>We are slaves to our brain.
>Why do Down's Syndrome adults behave like children?
>People don't choose to be pedophiles or homosexuals.
>

No one fully understands things such as you describe, but when we have
moved on to the next level of existence we will fully understand these
things and we will realize that somewhere back in our ancestral
history someone did some form of evil that has resulted in these
aberrations you describe. Gordon

>
>>We are students, so to speak and
>>we are going through a very harsh learning phase, but there was/is no
>>other way we could be matured to the level of knowledge/understanding
>>that we need before we can be granted immortality and absolute
>>sovereignty. Gordon
>
>Is God too stupid to know he could have made us that way from
>the beginning?
>

God knows that making us the way you advocate would never have
permitted us to develop our own sovereign will to a level that would
be safe for immortality. We would always be tempted by sin and many of
us would fall, just as Lucifer/Satan fell. Keep in mind that our
maturation must be based upon our own sovereign will, not upon God's
sovereign will. Gordon

>
>>>>The only way that works is to let us learn by experience and direct
>>>>involvement in all the vagaries of sin and rebellion that exist. This
>>>>has been going on since humans were first created. We are learning,
>>>>individually and we will also have all the learning that others have
>>>>gained throughout the ages, once we move on to immortality.
>>>>
>>>>This is not because God is harsh or uncaring. It is because there
>>>>simply is no other way to get us to the level that God wants us to
>>>>mature to.
>>>
>>>It is because God is weak?
>>>
>>Nope! God is not weak! God is all knowing and omnipotent. God does
>>place some restrictions upon Himself and he cannot break the rules in
>>this realm. God cannot lie or be deceptive. God cannot embrace evil.
>>Etc.
>
>Yet you say God is forced to follow your inefficient method.
>

My method? Or my interpretation of God's method?

>
>>We are the weak ones but we are gaining strength and knowledge. We
>>will graduate some day and move on to absolute sovereignty and
>>immortality. Gordon
>
>I am confused. You say God is not weak yet God is forced to
>follow your plan.
>

Nope, not at all. God is following His own plan and all I've said is
just my interpretation of God's plan. Gordon

>
>>>>And, one more thing to keep in mind...God's time scale is not the same
>>>>as ours. On our time scale it seems like this has been a very long
>>>>span of time but on God's eternity time scale it may be only an
>>>>instant. Gordon
>>>
>>>Therefore God does not understand us.
>>>
>>God understands us perfectly and totally. It is us who don't yet
>>understand all that is going on. We must take a lot of this on faith
>>and faith alone, since our minds are not capable of understanding it
>>all in totality. Gordon
>
>You appear to understand it all. Are you God?
>

Indeed I an NOT God but I do have a reasonable level of understanding
of God's information that He has given us. God's information is there
for each of us if we are willing to study it and ask for His guidance.
Gordon

[Lucifer Morningstar]

On Thu, 30 Jun 2016 10:32:01 -0500, Gordon <gord...@swbell.net>

Being omnipotent God can make us any way he wants.

>>>>>Preprogramming us as puppets would not have given us absolute
>>>>>sovereignty.
>>>>>
>>>>>Intimidating us into compliance as slaves would not have given us
>>>>>absolute sovereignty.
>>>>
>>>>Why did God make us slaves?
>>>>
>>>We are NOT slaves and NEVER will be.
>>
>>We are slaves to our brain.
>>Why do Down's Syndrome adults behave like children?
>>People don't choose to be pedophiles or homosexuals.
>>
>No one fully understands things such as you describe, but when we have
>moved on to the next level of existence we will fully understand these
>things and we will realize that somewhere back in our ancestral
>history someone did some form of evil that has resulted in these
>aberrations you describe. Gordon

Its called evolution and its not an intelligent process.

Children behave like children because their brain is not fully
developed.
Down's Syndrome adults behave like children because their
brain is not fully developed.
They don't choose to be that way.
They can't learn not to be that way.
Pedophiles are attracted to children because their brains
are miswired.
They don't choose to be that way.
They can't learn not to be that way.

>>>We are students, so to speak and
>>>we are going through a very harsh learning phase, but there was/is no
>>>other way we could be matured to the level of knowledge/understanding
>>>that we need before we can be granted immortality and absolute
>>>sovereignty. Gordon
>>
>>Is God too stupid to know he could have made us that way from
>>the beginning?
>>
>God knows that making us the way you advocate would never have
>permitted us to develop our own sovereign will to a level that would
>be safe for immortality. We would always be tempted by sin and many of
>us would fall, just as Lucifer/Satan fell. Keep in mind that our
>maturation must be based upon our own sovereign will, not upon God's
>sovereign will. Gordon

Was God forced to create sin?

>>>>>The only way that works is to let us learn by experience and direct
>>>>>involvement in all the vagaries of sin and rebellion that exist. This
>>>>>has been going on since humans were first created. We are learning,
>>>>>individually and we will also have all the learning that others have
>>>>>gained throughout the ages, once we move on to immortality.
>>>>>
>>>>>This is not because God is harsh or uncaring. It is because there
>>>>>simply is no other way to get us to the level that God wants us to
>>>>>mature to.
>>>>
>>>>It is because God is weak?
>>>>
>>>Nope! God is not weak! God is all knowing and omnipotent. God does
>>>place some restrictions upon Himself and he cannot break the rules in
>>>this realm. God cannot lie or be deceptive. God cannot embrace evil.
>>>Etc.
>>
>>Yet you say God is forced to follow your inefficient method.
>>
>My method? Or my interpretation of God's method?

God's method does not require time.

>>>We are the weak ones but we are gaining strength and knowledge. We
>>>will graduate some day and move on to absolute sovereignty and
>>>immortality. Gordon
>>
>>I am confused. You say God is not weak yet God is forced to
>>follow your plan.
>>
>Nope, not at all. God is following His own plan and all I've said is
>just my interpretation of God's plan. Gordon

Why would God follow your plan rather than make everything as
he wants it from the git go?

>>>>>And, one more thing to keep in mind...God's time scale is not the same
>>>>>as ours. On our time scale it seems like this has been a very long
>>>>>span of time but on God's eternity time scale it may be only an
>>>>>instant. Gordon
>>>>
>>>>Therefore God does not understand us.
>>>>
>>>God understands us perfectly and totally. It is us who don't yet
>>>understand all that is going on. We must take a lot of this on faith
>>>and faith alone, since our minds are not capable of understanding it
>>>all in totality. Gordon
>>
>>You appear to understand it all. Are you God?
>>
>Indeed I an NOT God but I do have a reasonable level of understanding
>of God's information that He has given us. God's information is there
>for each of us if we are willing to study it and ask for His guidance.
>Gordon

I think you are being offensive to God by suggesting he is weak
and stupid.

[Gordon]

Right, and I perceive that He is doing it the way He wants. We are
given lots of information in the Word of God, the Bible, and we are
expected to study this and ask God for guidance so we may better
understand it. Gordon

But, what CAUSED all these conditions you mention? My thinking is that
somewhere back in their ancestral linkage someone committed some sin
or multiple sins that led to the genetic conditions that, when merged
together brought about these conditions. I do not think any child or
other such mentally challenged person did this to themself by reason
of their own sins. They inherited the effects of their ancestors'
sins. Gordon

>
>>>>We are students, so to speak and
>>>>we are going through a very harsh learning phase, but there was/is no
>>>>other way we could be matured to the level of knowledge/understanding
>>>>that we need before we can be granted immortality and absolute
>>>>sovereignty. Gordon
>>>
>>>Is God too stupid to know he could have made us that way from
>>>the beginning?
>>>
>>God knows that making us the way you advocate would never have
>>permitted us to develop our own sovereign will to a level that would
>>be safe for immortality. We would always be tempted by sin and many of
>>us would fall, just as Lucifer/Satan fell. Keep in mind that our
>>maturation must be based upon our own sovereign will, not upon God's
>>sovereign will. Gordon
>
>Was God forced to create sin?
>

Had God not created sin His creation would have been less than
complete, and therefore could never have been refined into a state of
perfection. Separating all that is good from all that is evil is the
present, on-going process, and it was/is a very necessary part of the
whole project. Gordon

>
>>>>>>The only way that works is to let us learn by experience and direct
>>>>>>involvement in all the vagaries of sin and rebellion that exist. This
>>>>>>has been going on since humans were first created. We are learning,
>>>>>>individually and we will also have all the learning that others have
>>>>>>gained throughout the ages, once we move on to immortality.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>This is not because God is harsh or uncaring. It is because there
>>>>>>simply is no other way to get us to the level that God wants us to
>>>>>>mature to.
>>>>>
>>>>>It is because God is weak?
>>>>>
>>>>Nope! God is not weak! God is all knowing and omnipotent. God does
>>>>place some restrictions upon Himself and he cannot break the rules in
>>>>this realm. God cannot lie or be deceptive. God cannot embrace evil.
>>>>Etc.
>>>
>>>Yet you say God is forced to follow your inefficient method.
>>>
>>My method? Or my interpretation of God's method?
>
>God's method does not require time.
>

On God's time scale or on our time scale? My assessment on this matter
is that later, when we have moved on to immortality and absolute
sovereignty this phase we are now going through will seem like a very
short span of time. Gordon

>
>>>>We are the weak ones but we are gaining strength and knowledge. We
>>>>will graduate some day and move on to absolute sovereignty and
>>>>immortality. Gordon
>>>
>>>I am confused. You say God is not weak yet God is forced to
>>>follow your plan.
>>>
>>Nope, not at all. God is following His own plan and all I've said is
>>just my interpretation of God's plan. Gordon
>
>Why would God follow your plan rather than make everything as
>he wants it from the git go?
>

God is not following my plan. I have studied the Word of God and I
have sought God's leading in these studies. My statements here are
just my understanding of The Word of God.

>
>>>>>>And, one more thing to keep in mind...God's time scale is not the same
>>>>>>as ours. On our time scale it seems like this has been a very long
>>>>>>span of time but on God's eternity time scale it may be only an
>>>>>>instant. Gordon
>>>>>
>>>>>Therefore God does not understand us.
>>>>>
>>>>God understands us perfectly and totally. It is us who don't yet
>>>>understand all that is going on. We must take a lot of this on faith
>>>>and faith alone, since our minds are not capable of understanding it
>>>>all in totality. Gordon
>>>
>>>You appear to understand it all. Are you God?
>>>
>>Indeed I an NOT God but I do have a reasonable level of understanding
>>of God's information that He has given us. God's information is there
>>for each of us if we are willing to study it and ask for His guidance.
>>Gordon
>
>I think you are being offensive to God by suggesting he is weak
>and stupid.
>

I have NEVER suggested or implied that God is weak or stupid. I have
suggested that we need to study the information He has given us and
try to understand it more fully. That's all I'm doing in this realm.
Gordon

[Henry Mydlarz]

"Gys de Jongh" <jonghSevenH...@Planet.nl> wrote in message
news:CS4dz.4764$5j1...@fx34.iad...

You could build a tower... and climb up that tower to find out if there is a
Norther of North... and work off some bg in the process.

Henry

[Gordon]

The North Star.

[Mitchell Holman]

Gordon <gord...@swbell.net> wrote in
news:e0cbnb1gqtrcbc885...@4ax.com:

The stars were not created until the 4th day, remember?

What was north before then?

[Lucifer Morningstar]

On Thu, 30 Jun 2016 16:52:56 -0500, Gordon <gord...@swbell.net>

Doesn't that make God evil?

Evolution.

>My thinking is that
>somewhere back in their ancestral linkage someone committed some sin
>or multiple sins that led to the genetic conditions that, when merged
>together brought about these conditions. I do not think any child or
>other such mentally challenged person did this to themself by reason
>of their own sins. They inherited the effects of their ancestors'
>sins. Gordon

Again you suggest that God is evil.

>>>>>We are students, so to speak and
>>>>>we are going through a very harsh learning phase, but there was/is no
>>>>>other way we could be matured to the level of knowledge/understanding
>>>>>that we need before we can be granted immortality and absolute
>>>>>sovereignty. Gordon
>>>>
>>>>Is God too stupid to know he could have made us that way from
>>>>the beginning?
>>>>
>>>God knows that making us the way you advocate would never have
>>>permitted us to develop our own sovereign will to a level that would
>>>be safe for immortality. We would always be tempted by sin and many of
>>>us would fall, just as Lucifer/Satan fell. Keep in mind that our
>>>maturation must be based upon our own sovereign will, not upon God's
>>>sovereign will. Gordon
>>
>>Was God forced to create sin?
>>
>Had God not created sin His creation would have been less than
>complete, and therefore could never have been refined into a state of
>perfection. Separating all that is good from all that is evil is the
>present, on-going process, and it was/is a very necessary part of the
>whole project. Gordon

How does that fit in with God being omnipotent?

>>>>>>>The only way that works is to let us learn by experience and direct
>>>>>>>involvement in all the vagaries of sin and rebellion that exist. This
>>>>>>>has been going on since humans were first created. We are learning,
>>>>>>>individually and we will also have all the learning that others have
>>>>>>>gained throughout the ages, once we move on to immortality.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>This is not because God is harsh or uncaring. It is because there
>>>>>>>simply is no other way to get us to the level that God wants us to
>>>>>>>mature to.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>It is because God is weak?
>>>>>>
>>>>>Nope! God is not weak! God is all knowing and omnipotent. God does
>>>>>place some restrictions upon Himself and he cannot break the rules in
>>>>>this realm. God cannot lie or be deceptive. God cannot embrace evil.
>>>>>Etc.
>>>>
>>>>Yet you say God is forced to follow your inefficient method.
>>>>
>>>My method? Or my interpretation of God's method?
>>
>>God's method does not require time.
>>
>On God's time scale or on our time scale? My assessment on this matter
>is that later, when we have moved on to immortality and absolute
>sovereignty this phase we are now going through will seem like a very
>short span of time. Gordon

It won't seem like anything to us because we won't exist.

>>>>>We are the weak ones but we are gaining strength and knowledge. We
>>>>>will graduate some day and move on to absolute sovereignty and
>>>>>immortality. Gordon
>>>>
>>>>I am confused. You say God is not weak yet God is forced to
>>>>follow your plan.
>>>>
>>>Nope, not at all. God is following His own plan and all I've said is
>>>just my interpretation of God's plan. Gordon
>>
>>Why would God follow your plan rather than make everything as
>>he wants it from the git go?
>>
>God is not following my plan. I have studied the Word of God and I
>have sought God's leading in these studies. My statements here are
>just my understanding of The Word of God.

Schizophrenia.

>>>>>>>And, one more thing to keep in mind...God's time scale is not the same
>>>>>>>as ours. On our time scale it seems like this has been a very long
>>>>>>>span of time but on God's eternity time scale it may be only an
>>>>>>>instant. Gordon
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Therefore God does not understand us.
>>>>>>
>>>>>God understands us perfectly and totally. It is us who don't yet
>>>>>understand all that is going on. We must take a lot of this on faith
>>>>>and faith alone, since our minds are not capable of understanding it
>>>>>all in totality. Gordon
>>>>
>>>>You appear to understand it all. Are you God?
>>>>
>>>Indeed I an NOT God but I do have a reasonable level of understanding
>>>of God's information that He has given us. God's information is there
>>>for each of us if we are willing to study it and ask for His guidance.
>>>Gordon
>>
>>I think you are being offensive to God by suggesting he is weak
>>and stupid.
>>
>I have NEVER suggested or implied that God is weak or stupid. I have
>suggested that we need to study the information He has given us and
>try to understand it more fully. That's all I'm doing in this realm.
>Gordon

You say God is capable of giving us all a good like from the get go
but he has chosen not to. That surely makes God evil or stupid.
You also imply that God does not understand his own creation.
If God understood how he made our mammal brain he would know
we can only be the way he made us.

[Gys de Jongh]

only if there is a North direction in the universe as well
there is not

maybe there even is no bg either

[Lucifer Morningstar]

The firmament?

[Gordon]

On Thu, 30 Jun 2016 20:54:53 -0500, Mitchell Holman
<noe...@comcast.net> wrote:

The topics in debate are just another example of sovereign choice.
That is, each individual can make their own sovereign choice as to
whether to accept God or reject the entire idea that God exists.

North is simply an earth based expression that is defined by the
earth's rotation axis. The earth's magnetic poles are nearly aligned
with this rotation axis. Neither existed before the earth was created.
But, if one wants to extrapolate north into space, simply think of the
earth's axis as a line that passes through the earth and extends
indefinitely on through the universe.

[dolf]

On 1/07/2016 22:00, Gordon wrote:
> On Thu, 30 Jun 2016 20:54:53 -0500, Mitchell Holman
> <noe...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>> Gordon <gord...@swbell.net> wrote in
>> news:e0cbnb1gqtrcbc885...@4ax.com:
>>
>>> On Thu, 30 Jun 2016 10:36:49 +0200, Gys de Jongh
>>> <jonghSevenH...@Planet.nl> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 30-Jun-16 07:11, A little knowledge wrote:
>>>>> No, there was not a beginning.
>>>>> If there was a beginning, what came before that beginning?
>>>>
>>>> No there is no North Pole.
>>>> If there was a North Pole, what is North of the North Pole?
>>>>
>>> The North Star.
>>>
>>

What is truth?

[Gordon]

On Fri, 01 Jul 2016 15:54:02 +1000, Lucifer Morningstar

I don't know why anyone would think that? Is there any other way we
humans could have been matured to a level of understanding that would
make it safe for God to grant us immortality and absolute sovereignty?

Right! And, God created all that applies to the process of evolution,
then used these processes to develop the life forms that he wanted on
this planet. God was in control of the processes, all the way. Gordon

>
>>My thinking is that
>>somewhere back in their ancestral linkage someone committed some sin
>>or multiple sins that led to the genetic conditions that, when merged
>>together brought about these conditions. I do not think any child or
>>other such mentally challenged person did this to themself by reason
>>of their own sins. They inherited the effects of their ancestors'
>>sins. Gordon
>
>Again you suggest that God is evil.
>

By no means do I suggest that God is evil. I have repeatedly stated
that I see no other way the desired developments could have been
achieved other than the way God has/is doing them. Gordon

>
>>>>>>We are students, so to speak and
>>>>>>we are going through a very harsh learning phase, but there was/is no
>>>>>>other way we could be matured to the level of knowledge/understanding
>>>>>>that we need before we can be granted immortality and absolute
>>>>>>sovereignty. Gordon
>>>>>
>>>>>Is God too stupid to know he could have made us that way from
>>>>>the beginning?
>>>>>
>>>>God knows that making us the way you advocate would never have
>>>>permitted us to develop our own sovereign will to a level that would
>>>>be safe for immortality. We would always be tempted by sin and many of
>>>>us would fall, just as Lucifer/Satan fell. Keep in mind that our
>>>>maturation must be based upon our own sovereign will, not upon God's
>>>>sovereign will. Gordon
>>>
>>>Was God forced to create sin?
>>>
>>Had God not created sin His creation would have been less than
>>complete, and therefore could never have been refined into a state of
>>perfection. Separating all that is good from all that is evil is the
>>present, on-going process, and it was/is a very necessary part of the
>>whole project. Gordon
>
>How does that fit in with God being omnipotent?
>

There is no conflict here. God is omnipotent but sometimes we
don't/can't understand what He is doing. It is at these lock-ups that
we must trust in faith and lean not on our own understanding. God will
get it all worked out and He will do it in the best way possible.
Gordon

>
>>>>>>>>The only way that works is to let us learn by experience and direct
>>>>>>>>involvement in all the vagaries of sin and rebellion that exist. This
>>>>>>>>has been going on since humans were first created. We are learning,
>>>>>>>>individually and we will also have all the learning that others have
>>>>>>>>gained throughout the ages, once we move on to immortality.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>This is not because God is harsh or uncaring. It is because there
>>>>>>>>simply is no other way to get us to the level that God wants us to
>>>>>>>>mature to.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>It is because God is weak?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>Nope! God is not weak! God is all knowing and omnipotent. God does
>>>>>>place some restrictions upon Himself and he cannot break the rules in
>>>>>>this realm. God cannot lie or be deceptive. God cannot embrace evil.
>>>>>>Etc.
>>>>>
>>>>>Yet you say God is forced to follow your inefficient method.
>>>>>
>>>>My method? Or my interpretation of God's method?
>>>
>>>God's method does not require time.
>>>
>>On God's time scale or on our time scale? My assessment on this matter
>>is that later, when we have moved on to immortality and absolute
>>sovereignty this phase we are now going through will seem like a very
>>short span of time. Gordon
>
>It won't seem like anything to us because we won't exist.
>

We will exist, eternally, and we will have complete and absolute
understanding of all that God has done. Gordon

[Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD]

Barry Heisenberg wrote in part:
>
> From Greek philosopher Epicurius,
>
> "Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
> Then he is not omnipotent.
> Is he able, but not willing?
> Then he is malevolent.
> Is he both able and willing?
> Then whence cometh evil?
> Is he neither able nor willing?
> Then why call him God?"

This physician ( http://WDJW.net/HeartDoc ) shares that GOD is both
able and willing to prevent evil by helping us successfully
(Philippians 4:13) http://WDJW.net/Guard (Proverbs 4:23) the heart
(Matthew 15:19) which would otherwise drag (Jeremiah 17:9) us to
thinking/saying/writing **and** doing evil as Epicurus has noted.
Those of us who are born again (John 3:3 & 5) can prove that our
benevolent (Jeremiah 9:24) omnipotent GOD exists as explained at
http://WDJW.net/1Cor123

Source:
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/sci.med.cardiology/pdO7EK7kbKM/eHgYzuV7EwAJ

Barry Heisenberg asked:
>
> Is it possible for three people to have a common friend, but have
> wildly different views about him, his views and his character?

It is written that with GOD, all things are possible (Matthew 19:26)

> Wouldn't that indicate that at least two of them, and possibly all
> three of them, were mistaken, or lying?

It is written that we are Jesus' friends (John 15:14) if we love (John
15:12) each other as He loves (John 15:13) us and that we, who are
Jesus' friends are recognized (John 13:35) by this greater (John
15:13) love that we have for one another.

Just as Jesus loves us by convincing us of our needs as in the example
of His convincing Peter of his needing his feet washed by Him, we love
one another when we http://WDJW.net/ConvinceItForward our need to
always say/write that we're "wonderfully hungry" (
http://bit.ly/Philippians4_12 ) in **all** ways including especially
caring to "convince it forward."

> Well, why can't people who claim to have a personal relationship with
> Jesus agree on what he wants and what he's like?

Actually, all who **show** that they personally know (1 John 4:8) GOD
will agree it's written that "GOD is love" :-)

Source:
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/sci.med.cardiology/pdO7EK7kbKM/Vn8ZMz7VEgAJ

Barry Heisenberg wrote:
> Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote:
>> Barry Heisenberg wrote:
>>> Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote:
>>>> Duke wrote:
>>>>> Barry Heisenberg wrote:
>>>>>> Duke wrote:
>>>>>>> Barry Heisenberg asked:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pwf6QD-REMY
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Absolutely yes.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So it is meaningless to say God is good.
>>>>>
>>>>> We already know that.
>>>>
>>>> Indeed it is written that **only** GOD is good (Matthew 19:17).
>>
>>> It is also written you should not believe everything you read.
>>
>> Actually it's **not** written in the Bible that "you should not
>> believe everything you read."
>
> There is much missing in the bible.

Indeed, the most important thing that is missing in the Bible is
Apostle Paul's secret ( http://bit.ly/Philippians4_12 ) concerning how
to be hungry and satisfied at the same time.

>> Instead, what's written in the Bible is that all Scripture (2 Timothy
>> 3:16) is useful for learning about what is right.

Source:
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/sci.med.cardiology/13BKRyaSmG0/RBYUk83pEQAJ

> As long as you think genocide is right.

It is written that we're not to lean on our own understanding
(Proverbs 3:5) but to instead trust the LORD our Mighty (Isaiah 9:6)
GOD with all our heart, which means to lean on Him to "learn about
what is right."

Source:
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/sci.med.cardiology/Cw1-qgKTcpI/tFpT5itVEgAJ

Barry Heisenberg wrote:
> Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote:
>> Barry Eisenberg wrote:
>>> Duke wrote:
>>>> Barry Eisenberg asked:

>>>>
>>>>> Has anyone seen God or not?
>>>>

>>>> Nope.
>>>
>>> If you are saying people haven't seen God and haven't
>>> not seen God the bible agrees with you.
>>>
>>> Has seen
>>>
>>> (Gen. 17:1)--“Now when Abram was ninety-nine years old, the
>>> LORD appeared to Abram and said to him, "I am God Almighty; Walk
>>> before Me, and be blameless;"
>>> (Gen. 18:1) Now the LORD appeared to him by the oaks of Mamre,
>>> while he was sitting at the tent door in the heat of the day.”
>>> (Exodus 6:2-3)--"God spoke further to Moses and said to him,
>>> "I am the LORD; 3and I appeared to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, as God
>>> Almighty, but by My name, LORD, I did not make Myself known to them.”
>>> (Exodus 24:9-11)--“Then Moses went up with Aaron, Nadab and
>>> Abihu, and seventy of the elders of Israel, 10and they saw the God of
>>> Israel; and under His feet there appeared to be a pavement of
>>> sapphire, as clear as the sky itself. 11Yet He did not stretch out His
>>> hand against the nobles of the sons of Israel; and they saw God, and
>>> they ate and drank.”
>>> (Num. 12:6-8)--“He said, "Hear now My words: If there is a
>>> prophet among you, I, the LORD, shall make Myself known to him in a
>>> vision. I shall speak with him in a dream. 7"Not so, with My servant
>>> Moses, He is faithful in all My household; 8With him I speak mouth to
>>> mouth, Even openly, and not in dark sayings, And he beholds the form
>>> of the LORD. Why then were you not afraid To speak against My servant,
>>> against Moses?"
>>> (Acts 7:2), "And he [Stephen] said, 'Hear me, brethren and
>>> fathers! The God of glory appeared to our father Abraham when he was
>>> in Mesopotamia, before he lived in Haran . . . '"
>>>
>>> Has not seen
>>>
>>> (Exodus 33:20)--“But He [God] said, "You cannot see My face,
>>> for no man can see Me and live!"
>>> (John 1:18)--“No one has seen God at any time; the only
>>> begotten God who is in the bosom of the Father, He has explained Him.”
>>> (John 5:37)--“"And the Father who sent Me, He has testified of
>>> Me. You have neither heard His voice at any time nor seen His form.”
>>> (John 6:46)--"Not that anyone has seen the Father, except the
>>> One who is from God; He has seen the Father.”
>>> (1 Tim. 6:15-16)--“He who is the blessed and only Sovereign,
>>> the King of kings and Lord of lords, 16who alone possesses immortality
>>> and dwells in unapproachable light, whom no man has seen or can see.
>>> To Him be honour and eternal dominion! Amen.”
>>
>>
>> "About noon, King Agrippa, as I was on the road, I saw a light from
>> Heaven, brighter than the Sun, blazing around me and my companions. We
>> all fell to the ground, and I heard a voice saying to me in
>> Aramaic,‘Saul, Saul, why do you persecute Me? It is hard for you to
>> kick against the goads.’ Then I asked, ‘Who are You, LORD?’ ‘I am
>> Jesus, whom you are persecuting,’ the LORD replied. ‘Now get up and
>> stand on your feet. I have appeared to you to appoint you as a servant
>> and as a witness of what you have seen and will see of Me." (Acts
>> 26:13-16)
>>
>> GOD "dwells in unapproachable light" (1 Timothy 6:16) which is
>> "brighter than the Sun" (Acts 26:13) so that if allowed to "behold the
>> form of the LORD" (Numbers 12:8), we'd only be able to look down away
>> from His face to see "under His feet (that) there appeared to be a
>> pavement of sapphire, as clear as the sky itself" (Exodus 24:10) and
>> our faces would be glowing like Moses' reportedly was from being
>> exposed to light that is "brighter than the Sun" (Acts 26:13).

Source:
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/sci.med.cardiology/u1-4wTOL9Yo/mP7jhnMBEQAJ

> Has anyone seen God **or** not?

**emphasis** added.

The perfect (Matthew 5:48) **logical** answer to your question is
simply "yes" according to the Holy Spirit-guided exegesis of Biblical
verses given above with all glory ( http://bit.ly/Psalm112_1 ) to GOD
:-)

>> Barry Heisenberg asked:
>>
>>> What Would Jesus NOT Do?

>> LORD Jesus Christ of Nazareth would not ask "How are you ?" simply
>> because He already knows with the latter being consistent with His
>> being GOD (John 20:28).

Source:
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/sci.med.cardiology/cGsEdDBohnM/5rG4q1LUAwAJ

> Nothing useful apparently.

Indeed everything LORD Jesus Christ of Nazareth does is useful :-)

> How are you HeartDoc Andrew?

Source:
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/sci.med.cardiology/u1-4wTOL9Yo/SQHWVRcDEQAJ

I am "wonderfully hungry" ( http://bit.ly/Philippians4_12 ) and hope
you, Barry, also have a healthy appetite too :-)

So how are you ?













... because we mindfully choose to openly care with our heart,

HeartDoc Andrew <><
--
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Emory's IMVC.org cardiologist (GA Lic#040347)
and author of "Trust the Truth - Only the truth can cure the 'hunger
is starvation' delusion:"
http://WDJW.net/T3Book

"no one can say 'Jesus is LORD' except by the Holy Spirit."(1Cor12:3)
http://WDJW.net/1Cor123

What are the Keys of the Kingdom of Heaven?
http://WDJW.net/Matt1619

What is the "hunger is starvation" delusion?
http://bit.ly/TerriblyHungry

[Lucifer Morningstar]

On Fri, 01 Jul 2016 10:11:51 -0500, Gordon <gord...@swbell.net>

You said God is doing what he wants with no concern for us.

>Is there any other way we
>humans could have been matured to a level of understanding that would
>make it safe for God to grant us immortality and absolute sovereignty?

God, being omnipotent, could have made us that way from the
beginning.
Due to the way our mammal brain works there would be no
difference to us having learned.

Then God is to blame for all our problems.

>>>My thinking is that
>>>somewhere back in their ancestral linkage someone committed some sin
>>>or multiple sins that led to the genetic conditions that, when merged
>>>together brought about these conditions. I do not think any child or
>>>other such mentally challenged person did this to themself by reason
>>>of their own sins. They inherited the effects of their ancestors'
>>>sins. Gordon
>>
>>Again you suggest that God is evil.
>>
>By no means do I suggest that God is evil. I have repeatedly stated
>that I see no other way the desired developments could have been
>achieved other than the way God has/is doing them. Gordon

Did God freely choose to make us the way we are?

Had God not created sin we would not have had to learn about it.

>>>>>>>>>The only way that works is to let us learn by experience and direct
>>>>>>>>>involvement in all the vagaries of sin and rebellion that exist. This
>>>>>>>>>has been going on since humans were first created. We are learning,
>>>>>>>>>individually and we will also have all the learning that others have
>>>>>>>>>gained throughout the ages, once we move on to immortality.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>This is not because God is harsh or uncaring. It is because there
>>>>>>>>>simply is no other way to get us to the level that God wants us to
>>>>>>>>>mature to.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>It is because God is weak?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Nope! God is not weak! God is all knowing and omnipotent. God does
>>>>>>>place some restrictions upon Himself and he cannot break the rules in
>>>>>>>this realm. God cannot lie or be deceptive. God cannot embrace evil.
>>>>>>>Etc.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Yet you say God is forced to follow your inefficient method.
>>>>>>
>>>>>My method? Or my interpretation of God's method?
>>>>
>>>>God's method does not require time.
>>>>
>>>On God's time scale or on our time scale? My assessment on this matter
>>>is that later, when we have moved on to immortality and absolute
>>>sovereignty this phase we are now going through will seem like a very
>>>short span of time. Gordon
>>
>>It won't seem like anything to us because we won't exist.
>>
>We will exist, eternally, and we will have complete and absolute
>understanding of all that God has done. Gordon

You say you have reasoned out your thoughts on God.
See if you can follow this.
Consciousness requires a functioning brain. Once our brain
activity ceases there will be no us to go anywhere or be
aware of anything.

You say God is capable of giving us all a good life from the get go

but he has chosen not to. That surely makes God evil or stupid.
You also imply that God does not understand his own creation.
If God understood how he made our mammal brain he would know
we can only be the way he made us.

[Gordon]

On Sat, 02 Jul 2016 07:51:30 +1000, Lucifer Morningstar

I may not have stated this quite clearly enough. What I said was that
God will do things in the best way possible and He will not be
diverted from this process by our human complaints or disagreements.
God is VERY concerned for us and will work things out in the best way
for us, but we have to bear with Him and let Him do it His way, not
our way. Gordon

[Lucifer Morningstar]

On Fri, 01 Jul 2016 17:06:00 -0500, Gordon <gord...@swbell.net>
wrote:

>On Sat, 02 Jul 2016 07:51:30 +1000, Lucifer Morningstar
><Ba...@saymyname.com> wrote:
>
>>On Fri, 01 Jul 2016 10:11:51 -0500, Gordon <gord...@swbell.net>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>On Fri, 01 Jul 2016 15:54:02 +1000, Lucifer Morningstar
>>><Ba...@saymyname.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>On Thu, 30 Jun 2016 16:52:56 -0500, Gordon <gord...@swbell.net>
>>>>wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On Fri, 01 Jul 2016 06:03:53 +1000, Lucifer Morningstar
>>>>><Ba...@saymyname.com> wrote:

>>>>>>Being omnipotent God can make us any way he wants.
>>>>>>
>>>>>Right, and I perceive that He is doing it the way He wants. We are
>>>>>given lots of information in the Word of God, the Bible, and we are
>>>>>expected to study this and ask God for guidance so we may better
>>>>>understand it. Gordon
>>>>
>>>>Doesn't that make God evil?
>>>>
>>>I don't know why anyone would think that?
>>
>>You said God is doing what he wants with no concern for us.
>>
>I may not have stated this quite clearly enough. What I said was that
>God will do things in the best way possible and He will not be
>diverted from this process by our human complaints or disagreements.

Nor will he listen when we try to tell him there is a far better way.

>God is VERY concerned for us and will work things out in the best way
>for us, but we have to bear with Him and let Him do it His way, not
>our way. Gordon

You are contradicting yourself. You say God is concerned about us but
not enough to take our feelings into account.
That sounds like God is evil.

It looks like you are getting stressed by my posts. I did not intend
that but I can only point out the obvious errors in your claims.

[Gordon]

On Sat, 02 Jul 2016 08:22:36 +1000, Lucifer Morningstar

<Ba...@saymyname.com> wrote:

>On Fri, 01 Jul 2016 17:06:00 -0500, Gordon <gord...@swbell.net>
>wrote:
>
>>On Sat, 02 Jul 2016 07:51:30 +1000, Lucifer Morningstar
>><Ba...@saymyname.com> wrote:
>>
>>>On Fri, 01 Jul 2016 10:11:51 -0500, Gordon <gord...@swbell.net>
>>>wrote:
>>>

<snip>

>>>>>Doesn't that make God evil?
>>>>>
>>>>I don't know why anyone would think that?
>>>
>>>You said God is doing what he wants with no concern for us.
>>>
>>I may not have stated this quite clearly enough. What I said was that
>>God will do things in the best way possible and He will not be
>>diverted from this process by our human complaints or disagreements.
>
>Nor will he listen when we try to tell him there is a far better way.
>
>>God is VERY concerned for us and will work things out in the best way
>>for us, but we have to bear with Him and let Him do it His way, not
>>our way. Gordon
>
>You are contradicting yourself. You say God is concerned about us but
>not enough to take our feelings into account.
>That sounds like God is evil.
>

I never intended to imply that God is not concerned about us enough to
take our feelings into account. God has eternal plans for us and this
very brief spate of mortal existence is but a miniscule part of God's
concern for us. We must learn and this is the only workable way for us
to do so. This is somewhat like parents interacting with their
children. The parents may impose some restrictions that make the child
unhappy for the time being but the long term effect is well worth the
stress the child had to go through. Gordon

>
>It looks like you are getting stressed by my posts. I did not intend
>that but I can only point out the obvious errors in your claims.
>

No, I am not getting stressed at all. My responses are based on my
thinking that you want to talk this over, open and above board, to
better understand how people such as I think in this realm. If I'm
bothering you, please let me know and I'll stop responding to your
posts. Gordon

[Lucifer Morningstar]

On Fri, 01 Jul 2016 18:32:10 -0500, Gordon <gord...@swbell.net>

I understand your situation. You feel the need to praise God
even though there is nothing praiseworthy about God.
The result is you can't avoid contradicting yourself when you
tell me we must accept God's ways.

>This is somewhat like parents interacting with their
>children. The parents may impose some restrictions that make the child
>unhappy for the time being but the long term effect is well worth the
>stress the child had to go through. Gordon

Its nothing at all like parents interacting with their children.
Parents are not omnipotent and can only be the way God
made them.

>>It looks like you are getting stressed by my posts. I did not intend
>>that but I can only point out the obvious errors in your claims.
>>
>No, I am not getting stressed at all. My responses are based on my
>thinking that you want to talk this over, open and above board, to
>better understand how people such as I think in this realm. If I'm
>bothering you, please let me know and I'll stop responding to your
>posts. Gordon

Neither of us is obliged to respond to the other.
From the way you ignored most of my posts I thought you were
offended.

[Gordon]

On Sat, 02 Jul 2016 10:03:50 +1000, Lucifer Morningstar

I feel the need to praise God because I firmly believe God is worthy
of praise. We would never have existed had God not created us.

I didn't mean to imply that you or any other atheist MUST accept God's
ways. I merely pointed out that we all have the sovereign choice in
this and no one can overwhelm anyone else into believing or not
believing that God exists.

>
>>This is somewhat like parents interacting with their
>>children. The parents may impose some restrictions that make the child
>>unhappy for the time being but the long term effect is well worth the
>>stress the child had to go through. Gordon
>
>Its nothing at all like parents interacting with their children.
>Parents are not omnipotent and can only be the way God
>made them.
>
>>>It looks like you are getting stressed by my posts. I did not intend
>>>that but I can only point out the obvious errors in your claims.
>>>
>>No, I am not getting stressed at all. My responses are based on my
>>thinking that you want to talk this over, open and above board, to
>>better understand how people such as I think in this realm. If I'm
>>bothering you, please let me know and I'll stop responding to your
>>posts. Gordon
>
>Neither of us is obliged to respond to the other.
>From the way you ignored most of my posts I thought you were
>offended.
>

I apologize for missing your posts. I have so many things like this to
do that I often get behind and miss some of them. Anyway, I am not
offended nor am I trying to convert you. I just thought you wanted to
discuss this and learn more about how we Christians think.

I have been a Christian since my early teen age years but I did wander
away a bit when I was in college and interacted with many professors
and upper level classmates who were atheists. My respect for their
education and deep understanding in the realm of physics that I was
majoring in caused me to sway into their atheist mindset for a while.
But I soon grew through that phase and could not ever go back to
considering embracing atheism again. Gordon

[Lucifer Morningstar]

On Fri, 01 Jul 2016 19:28:35 -0500, Gordon <gord...@swbell.net>

God got lucky. He did not earn his place and he is not using his
power for good.

>We would never have existed had God not created us.

Another black mark against God.
There would be no suffering if God had not created us.

>I didn't mean to imply that you or any other atheist MUST accept God's
>ways. I merely pointed out that we all have the sovereign choice in
>this and no one can overwhelm anyone else into believing or not
>believing that God exists.

You said we all must accept God's ways because we can't change
God.

>>>This is somewhat like parents interacting with their
>>>children. The parents may impose some restrictions that make the child
>>>unhappy for the time being but the long term effect is well worth the
>>>stress the child had to go through. Gordon
>>
>>Its nothing at all like parents interacting with their children.
>>Parents are not omnipotent and can only be the way God
>>made them.

No comment?

>>>>It looks like you are getting stressed by my posts. I did not intend
>>>>that but I can only point out the obvious errors in your claims.
>>>>
>>>No, I am not getting stressed at all. My responses are based on my
>>>thinking that you want to talk this over, open and above board, to
>>>better understand how people such as I think in this realm. If I'm
>>>bothering you, please let me know and I'll stop responding to your
>>>posts. Gordon
>>
>>Neither of us is obliged to respond to the other.
>>From the way you ignored most of my posts I thought you were
>>offended.
>>
>I apologize for missing your posts.

I meant you do not respond to every part of my posts.

>I have so many things like this to
>do that I often get behind and miss some of them. Anyway, I am not
>offended nor am I trying to convert you. I just thought you wanted to
>discuss this and learn more about how we Christians think.

From what I can see you do not think like a Christian.

>I have been a Christian since my early teen age years but I did wander
>away a bit when I was in college and interacted with many professors
>and upper level classmates who were atheists. My respect for their
>education and deep understanding in the realm of physics that I was
>majoring in caused me to sway into their atheist mindset for a while.
>But I soon grew through that phase and could not ever go back to
>considering embracing atheism again. Gordon

Do you accept evolution over millions of years?
Do you reject special creation and Noah's Ark flood?
Many Christians do.

[Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD]

[Gordon]

On Sat, 02 Jul 2016 10:54:06 +1000, Lucifer Morningstar

This is a normal human assessment but if one opens up to God and
searches for a spiritual lead in these matters the results are very
different. God did and always has done the very best that could be
done. Of course we can't answer some related questions...what created
God, for instance, but we can move on in our thinking by going along
with the understanding that the human brain simply cannot understand
many such things.

>
>>We would never have existed had God not created us.
>
>Another black mark against God.
>There would be no suffering if God had not created us.
>

As I've said before, this mortal phase of our existence is not the
bottom line. We are going through this phase of inconveniences and
suffering in order that we may learn enough about all the effects of
sin and rebellion. Without this training phase we would never be
suitable for immortality and absolute sovereignty.

>
>>I didn't mean to imply that you or any other atheist MUST accept God's
>>ways. I merely pointed out that we all have the sovereign choice in
>>this and no one can overwhelm anyone else into believing or not
>>believing that God exists.
>
>You said we all must accept God's ways because we can't change
>God.
>

Right, and also, God's wisdom is infinite and ours is miniscule.

>
>>>>This is somewhat like parents interacting with their
>>>>children. The parents may impose some restrictions that make the child
>>>>unhappy for the time being but the long term effect is well worth the
>>>>stress the child had to go through. Gordon
>>>
>>>Its nothing at all like parents interacting with their children.
>>>Parents are not omnipotent and can only be the way God
>>>made them.
>
>No comment?
>

I didn't say it was EXACTLY like parents interacting with their
children. I said it was somewhat like this. Children often balk and
reject the restrictions their parents lay upon them but in the final
analysis the parents' decisions and actions are in the best interest
of their children, even though this may cause some temporary
resentment and inconvenience to the children.

>
>>>>>It looks like you are getting stressed by my posts. I did not intend
>>>>>that but I can only point out the obvious errors in your claims.
>>>>>
>>>>No, I am not getting stressed at all. My responses are based on my
>>>>thinking that you want to talk this over, open and above board, to
>>>>better understand how people such as I think in this realm. If I'm
>>>>bothering you, please let me know and I'll stop responding to your
>>>>posts. Gordon
>>>
>>>Neither of us is obliged to respond to the other.
>>>From the way you ignored most of my posts I thought you were
>>>offended.
>>>
>>I apologize for missing your posts.
>
>I meant you do not respond to every part of my posts.
>

I'll try to do better in the future.

>
>>I have so many things like this to
>>do that I often get behind and miss some of them. Anyway, I am not
>>offended nor am I trying to convert you. I just thought you wanted to
>>discuss this and learn more about how we Christians think.
>
>From what I can see you do not think like a Christian.
>

That would depend upon what Christian frame of mind you are referring
to. I am not a Catholic, nor am I a member of any specific protestant
group. I keep the Lord's Sabbath and I try to do the Lord's will, but
I admit that I am FAR from perfect.

My main source of understanding is the Bible, the Word of God. If I
can't find information in the Bible that supports my thinking on a
specific matter I conclude that my thinking is wrong. If I can find
information in the Bible that supports my thinking I conclude that my
thinking is right.

>
>>I have been a Christian since my early teen age years but I did wander
>>away a bit when I was in college and interacted with many professors
>>and upper level classmates who were atheists. My respect for their
>>education and deep understanding in the realm of physics that I was
>>majoring in caused me to sway into their atheist mindset for a while.
>>But I soon grew through that phase and could not ever go back to
>>considering embracing atheism again. Gordon
>
>Do you accept evolution over millions of years?
>Do you reject special creation and Noah's Ark flood?
>Many Christians do.
>

Yes, I definitely do accept evolution over millions of years but I
attribute this to the works of God. That is, God designed this
universe and all the natural laws that apply. Then God used and is
still using these natural laws to accomplish things such as evolution.
The thing that trips most people up here is that God's eternity time
scale is not the same as our time scale.

2 Peter 3:8 (KJV) But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing,
that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand
years as one day.

This and many other similar Bible passages tells us that there is no
simple linear translation between our time scale and God's eternity
time scale.

From our time scale perspective the process of evolution took millions
of years. From God's eternity time scale it may have been only a very
brief instant. We have no way of knowing or calculating this.

As to Noah's Ark and the Flood story, I interpret this as largely
allegorical. The flood story was probably based upon the flooding that
occurred in the Mediterranean basin after the end of the last period
of glaciation. The polar ice was melting rapidly and the Atlantic
Ocean level was rising significantly. This resulted in the dam at the
Strait of Gibraltar being breached and Atlantic Ocean water flooded
the Mediterranean Basin. Numerous villages were completely flooded and
still remain under water. The stories that were told among the people
of the times following were a convenient means for allegorically
presenting the information that God wanted them to grasp.

As to special creation, the general misunderstanding is caused by the
confusion that is caused by not understanding the difference between
God's eternity time scale and our time scale.

Further in this line of thinking...my own interpretation...God created
Adam as the first modern human (home sapiens sapiens). The Bible
account of this tells us that Adam was created with this new genotype
but there was no woman suitable for him to mate with, so God caused
Adam to become infected with something such as a retrovirus that
horizontally transferred this new genotype to the ova of the women who
were taking care of Adam while he was ill. Then, with this new
genotype on Adam's Y chromosomes and also on the women's X chromosomes
it could be passed along to both male and female descendants...and
here we are, today!

[A little knowledge]

On Thu, 30 Jun 2016 10:36:49 +0200, Gys de Jongh
<jonghSevenH...@Planet.nl> wrote:

Not the same.
We live in a reality where everything has an beginning and an ending.
But this is the nature of 3rd density reality. It is a limited state
of existence.
I think that dimensions higher than 3rd dimension don't have
beginnings and endings - it is a difficult concept to consider because
3rd density is all we know.
However, with eternity or the great hereafter, I don't think things
begin or end, they just are.

We fell into 3rd density, 3rd density is a limited subset of eternity.

--
A little knowledge is a dangerous thing

"The U.S. government does not study anything holistically. Everything
is studied in isolation from all else."
-- The Open-Source Everything Manifesto: Transparency, Truth, and
Trust (Manifesto Series) by Robert David Steele
http://www.phibetaiota.net/2014/05/robert-steele-at-libtechnyc-the-open-source-everything-manifesto/

Circular reasoning, also known as 'Begging the question'
http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/begging-the-question.html
eg of Begging the Question
Bill: "God must exist."
Jill: "How do you know."
Bill: "Because the Bible says so."
Jill: "Why should I believe the Bible?"
Bill: "Because the Bible was written by God [and god never lies]"

Is Big Pharma Addicted To Fraud?
http://www.forbes.com/sites/erikakelton/2013/07/29/is-big-pharma-addicted-to-fraud/


Patents Over Patients
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/01/opinion/01moss.html
"We could make faster progress against cancer by changing the way
drugs are developed. In the current system, if a promising compound
can’t be patented, it is highly unlikely ever to make it to market"

[Gordon]

On Sun, 03 Jul 2016 02:01:31 +1000, A little knowledge
<litt...@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Thu, 30 Jun 2016 10:36:49 +0200, Gys de Jongh
><jonghSevenH...@Planet.nl> wrote:
>
>>On 30-Jun-16 07:11, A little knowledge wrote:
>>> No, there was not a beginning.
>>> If there was a beginning, what came before that beginning?
>>
>>No there is no North Pole.
>>If there was a North Pole, what is North of the North Pole?
>
>
>Not the same.
>We live in a reality where everything has an beginning and an ending.
>But this is the nature of 3rd density reality. It is a limited state
>of existence.
>I think that dimensions higher than 3rd dimension don't have
>beginnings and endings - it is a difficult concept to consider because
>3rd density is all we know.
>However, with eternity or the great hereafter, I don't think things
>begin or end, they just are.
>
>We fell into 3rd density, 3rd density is a limited subset of eternity.
>

Of course none of us know exactly and precisely how our 3 dimensional
space dimensions and one time dimension fits into those other
dimensions but one idea I have come across seems plausible.

As a thought experiment, take a deck of playing cards and separate the
black cards from the red cards. Next, do a very precise shuffle that
will mix the red and black cards, one to one, uniformly. Now, thin the
black cards' thickness dimension down to less than a Planck Length but
leave their length and width unchanged. Leave the red cards' thickness
just a tiny bit above a Planck Length.

From the perspective of a microbe in that deck of cards, only the red
cards are discernable. The black cards are there, uniformly
distributed throughout the deck but they are not discernable.

If we label the 10 space dimensions and one time dimension, posited by
SS-M Theory P, Q, R, S, T, U, V, W, X, Y & Z and let the dimension T
represent time as we perceive it, the other dimensions may all be
stacked together in a similar way.

Think of our space dimensions as U, V @ W and another space set as S,
U & V, this could be the first level of Heaven. Likewise, the set of
dimensions R, S & U could be the second level of Heaven.

Looking down scale, the dimension set V, W & X could be the first
level of Satan's domain and the dimension set W, X & Y could be the
second level of Satan's domain, and so on.

This is just an idea that is fun to play around with but who knows???
Maybe it is close to being right???

[Carson]

On Sun, 03 Jul 2016 02:01:31 +1000, A little knowledge
<litt...@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Thu, 30 Jun 2016 10:36:49 +0200, Gys de Jongh
><jonghSevenH...@Planet.nl> wrote:
>
>>On 30-Jun-16 07:11, A little knowledge wrote:
>>> No, there was not a beginning.
>>> If there was a beginning, what came before that beginning?
>>
>>No there is no North Pole.
>>If there was a North Pole, what is North of the North Pole?
>
>Not the same.
>We live in a reality where everything has an beginning and an ending.
>But this is the nature of 3rd density reality. It is a limited state
>of existence.
>I think that dimensions higher than 3rd dimension don't have
>beginnings and endings - it is a difficult concept to consider because
>3rd density is all we know.
>However, with eternity or the great hereafter, I don't think things
>begin or end, they just are.
>
>We fell into 3rd density, 3rd density is a limited subset of eternity.

Carole is an idiot.

[Lucifer Morningstar]

On Sat, 02 Jul 2016 08:46:27 -0500, Gordon <gord...@swbell.net>

What sort of God creates a world where life feeds off life
and only the strongest survive?

>Of course we can't answer some related questions...what created
>God, for instance, but we can move on in our thinking by going along
>with the understanding that the human brain simply cannot understand
>many such things.

That is a cop out. We know enough to know there is not a
good God.

>>>We would never have existed had God not created us.
>>
>>Another black mark against God.
>>There would be no suffering if God had not created us.
>>
>As I've said before, this mortal phase of our existence is not the
>bottom line. We are going through this phase of inconveniences and
>suffering in order that we may learn enough about all the effects of
>sin and rebellion. Without this training phase we would never be
>suitable for immortality and absolute sovereignty.

Its the bottom line for us and unnecessary as God could have
made us the way he wants from the beginning.

>>>I didn't mean to imply that you or any other atheist MUST accept God's
>>>ways. I merely pointed out that we all have the sovereign choice in
>>>this and no one can overwhelm anyone else into believing or not
>>>believing that God exists.
>>
>>You said we all must accept God's ways because we can't change
>>God.
>>
>Right, and also, God's wisdom is infinite and ours is miniscule.

How do you know that?

>>>>>This is somewhat like parents interacting with their
>>>>>children. The parents may impose some restrictions that make the child
>>>>>unhappy for the time being but the long term effect is well worth the
>>>>>stress the child had to go through. Gordon
>>>>
>>>>Its nothing at all like parents interacting with their children.
>>>>Parents are not omnipotent and can only be the way God
>>>>made them.
>>
>>No comment?
>>
>I didn't say it was EXACTLY like parents interacting with their
>children. I said it was somewhat like this. Children often balk and
>reject the restrictions their parents lay upon them but in the final
>analysis the parents' decisions and actions are in the best interest
>of their children, even though this may cause some temporary
>resentment and inconvenience to the children.

God has no need to do any of that sort of thing.
Being omnipotent he can have what he wants at all times,
and being a loving God he wants us to have what we want.

>>>>>>It looks like you are getting stressed by my posts. I did not intend
>>>>>>that but I can only point out the obvious errors in your claims.
>>>>>>
>>>>>No, I am not getting stressed at all. My responses are based on my
>>>>>thinking that you want to talk this over, open and above board, to
>>>>>better understand how people such as I think in this realm. If I'm
>>>>>bothering you, please let me know and I'll stop responding to your
>>>>>posts. Gordon
>>>>
>>>>Neither of us is obliged to respond to the other.
>>>>From the way you ignored most of my posts I thought you were
>>>>offended.
>>>>
>>>I apologize for missing your posts.
>>
>>I meant you do not respond to every part of my posts.
>>
>I'll try to do better in the future.

You don't owe me anything.

>>>I have so many things like this to
>>>do that I often get behind and miss some of them. Anyway, I am not
>>>offended nor am I trying to convert you. I just thought you wanted to
>>>discuss this and learn more about how we Christians think.
>>
>>From what I can see you do not think like a Christian.
>>
>That would depend upon what Christian frame of mind you are referring
>to. I am not a Catholic, nor am I a member of any specific protestant
>group. I keep the Lord's Sabbath and I try to do the Lord's will, but
>I admit that I am FAR from perfect.

The bible says God is not a God of confusion.

>My main source of understanding is the Bible, the Word of God. If I
>can't find information in the Bible that supports my thinking on a
>specific matter I conclude that my thinking is wrong. If I can find
>information in the Bible that supports my thinking I conclude that my
>thinking is right.

What about when you have both due to the bible's contradictions?

>>>I have been a Christian since my early teen age years but I did wander
>>>away a bit when I was in college and interacted with many professors
>>>and upper level classmates who were atheists. My respect for their
>>>education and deep understanding in the realm of physics that I was
>>>majoring in caused me to sway into their atheist mindset for a while.
>>>But I soon grew through that phase and could not ever go back to
>>>considering embracing atheism again. Gordon
>>
>>Do you accept evolution over millions of years?
>>Do you reject special creation and Noah's Ark flood?
>>Many Christians do.
>>
>Yes, I definitely do accept evolution over millions of years but I
>attribute this to the works of God. That is, God designed this
>universe and all the natural laws that apply. Then God used and is
>still using these natural laws to accomplish things such as evolution.

So we can blame God for the state of the world, such as where
some places have no clean drinking water.

>The thing that trips most people up here is that God's eternity time
>scale is not the same as our time scale.
>
>2 Peter 3:8 (KJV) But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing,
>that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand
>years as one day.
>
>This and many other similar Bible passages tells us that there is no
>simple linear translation between our time scale and God's eternity
>time scale.
>
>From our time scale perspective the process of evolution took millions
>of years. From God's eternity time scale it may have been only a very
>brief instant. We have no way of knowing or calculating this.

If you are right God has no understanding of our needs and wants.

>As to Noah's Ark and the Flood story, I interpret this as largely
>allegorical. The flood story was probably based upon the flooding that
>occurred in the Mediterranean basin after the end of the last period
>of glaciation. The polar ice was melting rapidly and the Atlantic
>Ocean level was rising significantly. This resulted in the dam at the
>Strait of Gibraltar being breached and Atlantic Ocean water flooded
>the Mediterranean Basin. Numerous villages were completely flooded and
>still remain under water. The stories that were told among the people
>of the times following were a convenient means for allegorically
>presenting the information that God wanted them to grasp.
>
>As to special creation, the general misunderstanding is caused by the
>confusion that is caused by not understanding the difference between
>God's eternity time scale and our time scale.
>
>Further in this line of thinking...my own interpretation...God created
>Adam as the first modern human (home sapiens sapiens). The Bible
>account of this tells us that Adam was created with this new genotype
>but there was no woman suitable for him to mate with, so God caused
>Adam to become infected with something such as a retrovirus that
>horizontally transferred this new genotype to the ova of the women who
>were taking care of Adam while he was ill. Then, with this new
>genotype on Adam's Y chromosomes and also on the women's X chromosomes
>it could be passed along to both male and female descendants...and
>here we are, today!

A much more logical explanation and one which fits with what
we know is that there is no God or supernatural.

In your attempts to make God look good you end up making
God look like the source of all evil.

Is it possible the bible uses God as a metaphor for how low
a person can sink when they have absolute power?

[Vincent Maycock]

On Sat, 02 Jul 2016 15:27:32 -0500, Gordon <gord...@swbell.net>
wrote:

Those extra dimensions are thought to be compactified. I don't think
Satan, if he existed, would fit into them!

[Vincent Maycock]

On Fri, 01 Jul 2016 19:28:35 -0500, Gordon <gord...@swbell.net>
wrote:

snip

>I didn't mean to imply that you or any other atheist MUST accept God's
>ways. I merely pointed out that we all have the sovereign choice in
>this and no one can overwhelm anyone else into believing or not
>believing that God exists.

Why would anyone care if people believed they exist, all other things
being equal?

Do you hide from your wife to "test" whether or not she believes you
exist?

[Lucifer Morningstar]

On Sat, 02 Jul 2016 19:37:01 -0400, Vincent Maycock <vam...@aol.com>
wrote:

The extra dimensions don't exist, nor does the multiverse, nor
do black holes.

[Jeanne Douglas]

In article <mb72nbdmufcih9egi...@4ax.com>,
Gordon <gord...@swbell.net> wrote:

> On Thu, 02 Jun 2016 19:10:45 +1000, Lucifer Morningstar
> <Ba...@saymyname.com> wrote:
>
> > Has anyone seen God or not?
> >

> Of course this depends upon the definition of the word "seen" as it is
> used in these passages. Have you ever "seen" what it can do when you
> misinterpret a word such as this. Obviously these passages are not
> referring to the visual, optical perception of God as a physical
> being. Gordon


Then it's not being seen, now is it?

--

JD

Men rarely (if ever) manage to dream
up a God superior to themselves. Most
Gods have the manners and morals of a
spoiled child.

[Gordon]

On Sun, 03 Jul 2016 10:03:56 +1000, Lucifer Morningstar
<Ba...@saymyname.com> wrote:

>On Sat, 02 Jul 2016 19:37:01 -0400, Vincent Maycock <vam...@aol.com>
>wrote:
>
>>On Sat, 02 Jul 2016 15:27:32 -0500, Gordon <gord...@swbell.net>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>On Sun, 03 Jul 2016 02:01:31 +1000, A little knowledge
>>><litt...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>

<snip>

>>>Looking down scale, the dimension set V, W & X could be the first
>>>level of Satan's domain and the dimension set W, X & Y could be the
>>>second level of Satan's domain, and so on.
>>>
>>>This is just an idea that is fun to play around with but who knows???
>>>Maybe it is close to being right???
>>
>>Those extra dimensions are thought to be compactified. I don't think
>>Satan, if he existed, would fit into them!
>
>The extra dimensions don't exist, nor does the multiverse, nor
>do black holes.
>

Right, from the perspective that we are able to use, but if we could
somehow move into a space frame outside ours they would be real and
physical.

[Gordon]

On Sat, 02 Jul 2016 19:48:46 -0400, Vincent Maycock <vam...@aol.com>
wrote:

>On Fri, 01 Jul 2016 19:28:35 -0500, Gordon <gord...@swbell.net>
>wrote:
>
>snip
>
>>I didn't mean to imply that you or any other atheist MUST accept God's
>>ways. I merely pointed out that we all have the sovereign choice in
>>this and no one can overwhelm anyone else into believing or not
>>believing that God exists.
>
>Why would anyone care if people believed they exist, all other things
>being equal?
>

It isn't a matter of me caring. It is merely a matter of sharing my
thoughts with anyone who might want to grasp a deeper level of
understanding as to why some of us strongly believe that God exists
and that He created all that exists. If you don't want to chatter
about this, feel free to ignore any of my posts.

>
>Do you hide from your wife to "test" whether or not she believes you
>exist?
>

She has seen, touched, tasted, heard and smelled me so many times that
I don't think I could fool her into believing that I don't exist.

[Gordon]

On Sat, 02 Jul 2016 19:37:01 -0400, Vincent Maycock <vam...@aol.com>
wrote:

>On Sat, 02 Jul 2016 15:27:32 -0500, Gordon <gord...@swbell.net>
>wrote:
>
>>On Sun, 03 Jul 2016 02:01:31 +1000, A little knowledge
>><litt...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>

<snip>

>>As a thought experiment, take a deck of playing cards and separate the
>>black cards from the red cards. Next, do a very precise shuffle that
>>will mix the red and black cards, one to one, uniformly. Now, thin the
>>black cards' thickness dimension down to less than a Planck Length but
>>leave their length and width unchanged. Leave the red cards' thickness
>>just a tiny bit above a Planck Length.
>>
>>From the perspective of a microbe in that deck of cards, only the red
>>cards are discernable. The black cards are there, uniformly
>>distributed throughout the deck but they are not discernable.
>>
>>If we label the 10 space dimensions and one time dimension, posited by
>>SS-M Theory P, Q, R, S, T, U, V, W, X, Y & Z and let the dimension T
>>represent time as we perceive it, the other dimensions may all be
>>stacked together in a similar way.
>>
>>Think of our space dimensions as U, V @ W and another space set as S,
>>U & V, this could be the first level of Heaven. Likewise, the set of
>>dimensions R, S & U could be the second level of Heaven.
>>
>>Looking down scale, the dimension set V, W & X could be the first
>>level of Satan's domain and the dimension set W, X & Y could be the
>>second level of Satan's domain, and so on.
>>
>>This is just an idea that is fun to play around with but who knows???
>>Maybe it is close to being right???
>
>Those extra dimensions are thought to be compactified. I don't think
>Satan, if he existed, would fit into them!
>

If Satan was also compactified he might fit right in. And,
compactified doesn't mean that these other dimensions are compactified
from a perspective within them. Our space dimensions may be
compactified from a perspective within some of those other dimensions.

[Gordon]

On Sun, 03 Jul 2016 08:29:04 +1000, Lucifer Morningstar

<Ba...@saymyname.com> wrote:

>On Sat, 02 Jul 2016 08:46:27 -0500, Gordon <gord...@swbell.net>
>wrote:
>
>>On Sat, 02 Jul 2016 10:54:06 +1000, Lucifer Morningstar
>><Ba...@saymyname.com> wrote:
>>
>>>On Fri, 01 Jul 2016 19:28:35 -0500, Gordon <gord...@swbell.net>
>>>wrote:
>>>

<snip>

>>>>>I understand your situation. You feel the need to praise God
>>>>>even though there is nothing praiseworthy about God.
>>>>>The result is you can't avoid contradicting yourself when you
>>>>>tell me we must accept God's ways.
>>>>>
>>>>I feel the need to praise God because I firmly believe God is worthy
>>>>of praise.
>>>
>>>God got lucky. He did not earn his place and he is not using his
>>>power for good.
>>>
>>This is a normal human assessment but if one opens up to God and
>>searches for a spiritual lead in these matters the results are very
>>different. God did and always has done the very best that could be
>>done.
>
>What sort of God creates a world where life feeds off life
>and only the strongest survive?
>

I don't fully understand all this but I can see why God would set
things up the way it seems He did. He allowed Lucifer/Satan to explore
all the vagaries of sin and rebellion and let us humans go along for
the learning process, because this was the only way we could be
matured to a level that would permit us to be given immortality and
absolute sovereignty.

>>Of course we can't answer some related questions...what created
>>God, for instance, but we can move on in our thinking by going along
>>with the understanding that the human brain simply cannot understand
>>many such things.
>
>That is a cop out. We know enough to know there is not a
>good God.
>

Please explain how you think God should have created us. How could we
ever have been matured to a level that would be safe for God to give

us immortality and absolute sovereignty?
>

>>>>We would never have existed had God not created us.
>>>
>>>Another black mark against God.
>>>There would be no suffering if God had not created us.
>>>
>>As I've said before, this mortal phase of our existence is not the
>>bottom line. We are going through this phase of inconveniences and
>>suffering in order that we may learn enough about all the effects of
>>sin and rebellion. Without this training phase we would never be
>>suitable for immortality and absolute sovereignty.
>
>Its the bottom line for us and unnecessary as God could have
>made us the way he wants from the beginning.
>

Only as preprogrammed puppets or intimidated slaves, but not as
absolutely sovereign beings.

>
>>>>I didn't mean to imply that you or any other atheist MUST accept God's
>>>>ways. I merely pointed out that we all have the sovereign choice in
>>>>this and no one can overwhelm anyone else into believing or not
>>>>believing that God exists.
>>>
>>>You said we all must accept God's ways because we can't change
>>>God.
>>>
>>Right, and also, God's wisdom is infinite and ours is miniscule.
>
>How do you know that?
>

It is intuitively obvious. We know only a very minimal amount about
how God's creation was initiated, but obviously God knows all that is
to be known about this and all else.

Okay.

>
>>>>I have so many things like this to
>>>>do that I often get behind and miss some of them. Anyway, I am not
>>>>offended nor am I trying to convert you. I just thought you wanted to
>>>>discuss this and learn more about how we Christians think.
>>>
>>>From what I can see you do not think like a Christian.
>>>
>>That would depend upon what Christian frame of mind you are referring
>>to. I am not a Catholic, nor am I a member of any specific protestant
>>group. I keep the Lord's Sabbath and I try to do the Lord's will, but
>>I admit that I am FAR from perfect.
>
>The bible says God is not a God of confusion.
>

Very true, but our minimal intelligence is confused about many things.
Understanding God is just one area of our confusion. For example, does
anyone understand how the universe came into existence and where all
the energy came from? Is the universe infinitely large or does it have
an outer boundary? If it has an outer boundary, what lies beyond that
boundary? And so on......

>
>>My main source of understanding is the Bible, the Word of God. If I
>>can't find information in the Bible that supports my thinking on a
>>specific matter I conclude that my thinking is wrong. If I can find
>>information in the Bible that supports my thinking I conclude that my
>>thinking is right.
>
>What about when you have both due to the bible's contradictions?
>

The only option here is to keep studying and learning, hoping for a
better understanding.

>
>>>>I have been a Christian since my early teen age years but I did wander
>>>>away a bit when I was in college and interacted with many professors
>>>>and upper level classmates who were atheists. My respect for their
>>>>education and deep understanding in the realm of physics that I was
>>>>majoring in caused me to sway into their atheist mindset for a while.
>>>>But I soon grew through that phase and could not ever go back to
>>>>considering embracing atheism again. Gordon
>>>
>>>Do you accept evolution over millions of years?
>>>Do you reject special creation and Noah's Ark flood?
>>>Many Christians do.
>>>
>>Yes, I definitely do accept evolution over millions of years but I
>>attribute this to the works of God. That is, God designed this
>>universe and all the natural laws that apply. Then God used and is
>>still using these natural laws to accomplish things such as evolution.
>
>So we can blame God for the state of the world, such as where
>some places have no clean drinking water.
>

Indirectly we can blame God but actually Satan is the cause of all
these harsh conditions.

>
>>The thing that trips most people up here is that God's eternity time
>>scale is not the same as our time scale.
>>
>>2 Peter 3:8 (KJV) But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing,
>>that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand
>>years as one day.
>>
>>This and many other similar Bible passages tells us that there is no
>>simple linear translation between our time scale and God's eternity
>>time scale.
>>
>>From our time scale perspective the process of evolution took millions
>>of years. From God's eternity time scale it may have been only a very
>>brief instant. We have no way of knowing or calculating this.
>
>If you are right God has no understanding of our needs and wants.
>

Nope, God has an infinite understanding of these matters but we do not
yet have more than a miniscule understanding in thee matters. We're
working on it and learning, little by little.

Your option, if this is the way you want to go.

>
>In your attempts to make God look good you end up making
>God look like the source of all evil.
>

No, not at all. God is currently providing us with exposure to evil so
we can learn enough about it to assure Him that we will NEVER, EVER
want to go back and explore this realm any further once we've been
advanced to immortality and absolute sovereignty.

>
>Is it possible the bible uses God as a metaphor for how low
>a person can sink when they have absolute power?
>

No, I don't see this as a possibility at all. My assessment is that
God is a form of cosmic consciousness that exists throughout the
multiverse. Maybe this is something such as a form of quantum
entanglements between all the sub-atomic particles that exist and
these quantum entanglements function like the synapses in our brain.

[Vincent Maycock]

On Sun, 03 Jul 2016 13:18:25 -0500, Gordon <gord...@swbell.net>
wrote:

>On Sat, 02 Jul 2016 19:48:46 -0400, Vincent Maycock <vam...@aol.com>
>wrote:
>
>>On Fri, 01 Jul 2016 19:28:35 -0500, Gordon <gord...@swbell.net>
>>wrote:
>>
>>snip
>>
>>>I didn't mean to imply that you or any other atheist MUST accept God's
>>>ways. I merely pointed out that we all have the sovereign choice in
>>>this and no one can overwhelm anyone else into believing or not
>>>believing that God exists.
>>
>>Why would anyone care if people believed they exist, all other things
>>being equal?
>>
>It isn't a matter of me caring. It is merely a matter of sharing my
>thoughts with anyone who might want to grasp a deeper level of
>understanding as to why some of us strongly believe that God exists

Because your religion gives you meaning and purpose in life, right?

>and that He created all that exists. If you don't want to chatter
>about this, feel free to ignore any of my posts.
>>
>>Do you hide from your wife to "test" whether or not she believes you
>>exist?
>>
>She has seen, touched, tasted, heard and smelled me so many times that
>I don't think I could fool her into believing that I don't exist.

Now you see there, you're taking away her freedom of choice by forcing
her to believe you exist.

You need to find a woman who hasn't done all those things to you, and
then *hide* so she can remain sovereign over all she believes.

You probably also should torture her physically, to help "mature" her
to someone your supposed god would like to see.

[Vincent Maycock]

On Sun, 03 Jul 2016 13:21:06 -0500, Gordon <gord...@swbell.net>

What would be the point of being 10^-33 centimeters in size?

[Lucifer Morningstar]

On Sun, 03 Jul 2016 13:38:39 -0500, Gordon <gord...@swbell.net>

God failed in his first attempt to correct his errors.
What makes you think he will succeed this time?

>>>Of course we can't answer some related questions...what created
>>>God, for instance, but we can move on in our thinking by going along
>>>with the understanding that the human brain simply cannot understand
>>>many such things.
>>
>>That is a cop out. We know enough to know there is not a
>>good God.
>>
>Please explain how you think God should have created us. How could we
>ever have been matured to a level that would be safe for God to give
>us immortality and absolute sovereignty?

God could have made us that way from the beginning.

>>>>>We would never have existed had God not created us.
>>>>
>>>>Another black mark against God.
>>>>There would be no suffering if God had not created us.
>>>>
>>>As I've said before, this mortal phase of our existence is not the
>>>bottom line. We are going through this phase of inconveniences and
>>>suffering in order that we may learn enough about all the effects of
>>>sin and rebellion. Without this training phase we would never be
>>>suitable for immortality and absolute sovereignty.
>>
>>Its the bottom line for us and unnecessary as God could have
>>made us the way he wants from the beginning.
>>
>Only as preprogrammed puppets or intimidated slaves, but not as
>absolutely sovereign beings.

God does not have those limitations.

>>>>>I didn't mean to imply that you or any other atheist MUST accept God's
>>>>>ways. I merely pointed out that we all have the sovereign choice in
>>>>>this and no one can overwhelm anyone else into believing or not
>>>>>believing that God exists.
>>>>
>>>>You said we all must accept God's ways because we can't change
>>>>God.
>>>>
>>>Right, and also, God's wisdom is infinite and ours is miniscule.
>>
>>How do you know that?
>>
>It is intuitively obvious. We know only a very minimal amount about
>how God's creation was initiated, but obviously God knows all that is
>to be known about this and all else.

From what the bible tells us it appears God knows very little.
God thinks the moon is a light.
That should not surprise us as God was created in a time when
we were much more ignorant.

>>>>>>>This is somewhat like parents interacting with their
>>>>>>>children. The parents may impose some restrictions that make the child
>>>>>>>unhappy for the time being but the long term effect is well worth the
>>>>>>>stress the child had to go through. Gordon
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Its nothing at all like parents interacting with their children.
>>>>>>Parents are not omnipotent and can only be the way God
>>>>>>made them.
>>>>
>>>>No comment?
>>>>
>>>I didn't say it was EXACTLY like parents interacting with their
>>>children. I said it was somewhat like this. Children often balk and
>>>reject the restrictions their parents lay upon them but in the final
>>>analysis the parents' decisions and actions are in the best interest
>>>of their children, even though this may cause some temporary
>>>resentment and inconvenience to the children.
>>
>>God has no need to do any of that sort of thing.
>>Being omnipotent he can have what he wants at all times,
>>and being a loving God he wants us to have what we want.

No comment?

The people who created God did not have that information.

>>>My main source of understanding is the Bible, the Word of God. If I
>>>can't find information in the Bible that supports my thinking on a
>>>specific matter I conclude that my thinking is wrong. If I can find
>>>information in the Bible that supports my thinking I conclude that my
>>>thinking is right.
>>
>>What about when you have both due to the bible's contradictions?
>>
>The only option here is to keep studying and learning, hoping for a
>better understanding.

Or you could accept that the bible is made up nonsense.

>>>>>I have been a Christian since my early teen age years but I did wander
>>>>>away a bit when I was in college and interacted with many professors
>>>>>and upper level classmates who were atheists. My respect for their
>>>>>education and deep understanding in the realm of physics that I was
>>>>>majoring in caused me to sway into their atheist mindset for a while.
>>>>>But I soon grew through that phase and could not ever go back to
>>>>>considering embracing atheism again. Gordon
>>>>
>>>>Do you accept evolution over millions of years?
>>>>Do you reject special creation and Noah's Ark flood?
>>>>Many Christians do.
>>>>
>>>Yes, I definitely do accept evolution over millions of years but I
>>>attribute this to the works of God. That is, God designed this
>>>universe and all the natural laws that apply. Then God used and is
>>>still using these natural laws to accomplish things such as evolution.
>>
>>So we can blame God for the state of the world, such as where
>>some places have no clean drinking water.
>>
>Indirectly we can blame God but actually Satan is the cause of all
>these harsh conditions.

You think God is using Satan as an excuse?
Could it be that God and Satan are personalities of the
one being?

>>>The thing that trips most people up here is that God's eternity time
>>>scale is not the same as our time scale.
>>>
>>>2 Peter 3:8 (KJV) But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing,
>>>that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand
>>>years as one day.
>>>
>>>This and many other similar Bible passages tells us that there is no
>>>simple linear translation between our time scale and God's eternity
>>>time scale.
>>>
>>>From our time scale perspective the process of evolution took millions
>>>of years. From God's eternity time scale it may have been only a very
>>>brief instant. We have no way of knowing or calculating this.
>>
>>If you are right God has no understanding of our needs and wants.
>>
>Nope, God has an infinite understanding of these matters but we do not
>yet have more than a miniscule understanding in thee matters. We're
>working on it and learning, little by little.

Wouldn't you need an infinite understanding to be able to
say God has an infinite understanding?
The bible suggests God has very little understanding.

Do you want the things you believe to be true or would you
rather there was a good God that would use his power to
make everything good?

>>In your attempts to make God look good you end up making
>>God look like the source of all evil.
>>
>No, not at all. God is currently providing us with exposure to evil so
>we can learn enough about it to assure Him that we will NEVER, EVER
>want to go back and explore this realm any further once we've been
>advanced to immortality and absolute sovereignty.

Would that be necessary if there was no evil?

>>Is it possible the bible uses God as a metaphor for how low
>>a person can sink when they have absolute power?
>>
>No, I don't see this as a possibility at all. My assessment is that
>God is a form of cosmic consciousness that exists throughout the
>multiverse. Maybe this is something such as a form of quantum
>entanglements between all the sub-atomic particles that exist and
>these quantum entanglements function like the synapses in our brain.

So you see God as an unintelligent blob of energy?

[duke]

God doesn't set things up. God allows evil to happen and then the good and the
evil get judged.

the dukester, American-American

*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
*****

[Francher]

Hello Gordon,

It is Sunday and a day off for me. I wanted to comment on this thread. I
have certainly followed it.

Personally, I have never seen any evidence for a God that resembles the
Christian. Judaic, or Islamic portrayal of God.

I am the doubting Thomas that believes in what evidence I find extremely
credible. When it comes to religion, I am not willing to believe what
someone else is telling me. I know that they don't know any more than I
do. I cannot accept the writings from the people who wrote the current
version of the Christian Bible or by Mohamed.

I have experienced events that are direct evidence for the survival of
our personality/mind after death. I have seen direct evidence for
reincarnation. I do take on faith what my wife tells me. I do so because
she has a very long track record of being extremely accurate in her
statements to me. I cannot extend that faith to preachers, priests, or
long dead people. I do not know them well enough. I do know that most of
them have had influences that could well inspire them to make up stuff.

It is however clear to me that my level of intelligence is very puny
when compared to what it would take to understand the extremely complex
universe in which we abide.

There are stories in the Christian Bible that are allegedly spoken by
Jesus. Some of these stories are multi-layered and come from someone who
had considerable wisdom. I do think that there was most probably an
individual who lived back 2 millenia who inspired many with his
teachings. I have read about saintly behaviour and observed what I
considered saintly behaviour among some of my colleagues. But again, the
evidence I have seen does not suggest the existence of an over-mind that
created this universe and loves me.

I am not so arrogant as to state that there is no "God". I find that
kind of atheism repugnant to me. These atheists don't have any special
knowledge to be making that statement. I could infer from my near death
episode and other direct observations of this world that there is a God.
I chose not to make that rather large leap. But, I could only say that
someone might make that inference. It would not be proof or fact.

I am not challenging your faith Gordon. I have no special knowledge to
do so.

Francher

[Gordon]

On Sun, 3 Jul 2016 17:06:25 -0500, Francher <donot...@noreply.net>
wrote:

I keep the Lord's Sabbath but I don't intend to make any moves to
convince you or anyone else that this is prudent.

>
>Personally, I have never seen any evidence for a God that resembles the
>Christian. Judaic, or Islamic portrayal of God.
>

The thing we must deal with here is that those ancient scribes wrote
the information down in a form that the people of those times could
interpret and tell to other tribal members on down through the
generations. In order for us to grasp the meaning we have to set aside
our modern scientific/cultural thinking and go at it the way those
people did. Allegories, parables, similes, etc. were best way they
could handle this.

>
>I am the doubting Thomas that believes in what evidence I find extremely
>credible. When it comes to religion, I am not willing to believe what
>someone else is telling me. I know that they don't know any more than I
>do. I cannot accept the writings from the people who wrote the current
>version of the Christian Bible or by Mohamed.
>

Mohamed was a firm Christian. It wasn't until Abu Bakr and his cronies
decided to modify Mohamed's teachings and try to keep the Arabs from
becoming bonded with and controlled by the Western Roman Empire. They
killed Muhammad and blamed this killing on a defenseless Jewess, then
modified Muhammad's teachings such that their people and their mode of
worship could never become a subservient colony.

They denied that Jesus was God incarnate and claimed that he wasn't
crucified then raised from the dead but had a likeness crucified in
his place. This would make Jesus a liar and a deceiver, but they
regard him as a major prophet, second only to their revised version of
Muhammad.

>
>I have experienced events that are direct evidence for the survival of
>our personality/mind after death. I have seen direct evidence for
>reincarnation. I do take on faith what my wife tells me. I do so because
>she has a very long track record of being extremely accurate in her
>statements to me. I cannot extend that faith to preachers, priests, or
>long dead people. I do not know them well enough. I do know that most of
>them have had influences that could well inspire them to make up stuff.
>

I also have experienced such events. The first came when I was about
12 years old. It was a feeling of some level of communication beyond
the here and now and I felt really elevated, spiritually.

>
>It is however clear to me that my level of intelligence is very puny
>when compared to what it would take to understand the extremely complex
>universe in which we abide.
>

None of us, or all of us collectively are intelligent enough to
understand these things to the extent that God understands them. We
simply must rely upon faith and trust in the Lord.

>
>There are stories in the Christian Bible that are allegedly spoken by
>Jesus. Some of these stories are multi-layered and come from someone who
>had considerable wisdom. I do think that there was most probably an
>individual who lived back 2 millenia who inspired many with his
>teachings. I have read about saintly behaviour and observed what I
>considered saintly behaviour among some of my colleagues. But again, the
>evidence I have seen does not suggest the existence of an over-mind that
>created this universe and loves me.
>

I can see your point if you are trying to conceptualize God as a
supreme being such as He is often pictured. I don't think God is a
material being of any form. I think he is a form of cosmic
consciousness that extends throughout the multiverse and functions
somewhat like the synapses in our brains, but at an infinitely greater
level. Something like quantum entanglements between the sub-atomic
particles throughout the universe may be the way this mind is put
together.

>
>I am not so arrogant as to state that there is no "God". I find that
>kind of atheism repugnant to me. These atheists don't have any special
>knowledge to be making that statement. I could infer from my near death
>episode and other direct observations of this world that there is a God.
>I chose not to make that rather large leap. But, I could only say that
>someone might make that inference. It would not be proof or fact.
>

I could never even come close to explaining the things that I have
observed and the thoughts that pervade my mind, except to go with the
idea that my mind is somehow linked to the mind of God.

>
>I am not challenging your faith Gordon. I have no special knowledge to
>do so.
>
>Francher
>

I don't take it as a challenge. I just hope it is a quest for
knowledge and a willingness to share what we individually think in
this realm. Gordon

[Gordon]

SUBJECT WAS: -- Has anyone seen God or not?

DISTRIBUTION:

- alt.atheism
- alt.christnet.christianlife
- aus.media-watch
- alt.dear.whitehouse
- sup...@fairpoint.net
- ab...@giganews.com

ACTION SOUGHT: *IMMEDIATE* *ACCOUNT* *CLOSURE* *AND* *PERMANENT* *BAN*
*FROM* *THE* *INTERNET*

MR CHRISTOPHER LEE has on this 4th July, 2016 (AEST) steadfastly refused
to engaged within reasonable, rational and coherent dialog and instead
resorted to his unrestrained anal-sadistic violent '*TREASONABLE*' hate
speech and Tourette Syndrome like manner: 'most often associated with
the exclamation of obscene words or socially inappropriate and
derogatory remarks (coprolalia).'

He has by such acts, which are motivated entirely by a daemonic
animalistic driven human nature, continued to convey distorted realities
of a perverse, deprave, inconsequential and circumstantial morality (ie.

A) SPAMS HIS UNSOLICITED AND OFF-TOPIC NONSENSE TO A WHOLE SLEW OF GROUPS:

- I'm terraforming as anti-terrorism activity so as to make the planet
more conducive to human life;

B) THEN FORGES THOSE WHO TELL HIM WHERE TO SHOVE IT:

- I'm frogging only to tag and tarnish their often anonymous identity
(why ought mine be scat upon) to bring their misdemeanors and misconduct
to their attention by negating any kill-file mechanism.

) and as conduct expressing a manner of speech conveying unambiguous and
contemptible racialism, psycho-sexualism, vehement anti-religiosity and
fascist characterizations that are knowingly false.

He has been advised that a failure to respond to each of the questions
and evidence placed before him with an answer that is explicit,
unambiguous and with clarity, will result in a legal claim of
defamation, slander and unlawful use of telecommunications carriage
service for harassment being made against him in due course--HE IS
ACTING UNLAWFULLY.

CHRISTOPHER (ATHEIST) LEE: "WHAT F@CKING QUESTION OF WHAT F@CKING *DIVINE*?"

So I will repeat it again for you on this 4 July, 2016 (AEST) and warn
you to be careful of your conduct lest you pervert the DAY and offend
the American national ethos.

CHRISTOPHER (ATHEIST) LEE: "WHAT FUCKING EVIDENCE FOR WHAT FUCKING
EXISTENCE OF WHAT FUCKING DEITY was Adolph the psycho who spams his
unsolicited and off-topic nonsense to a whole slew of groups and then
forges those who tell him where to shove it, lying about?"

dolf: "Again you are showing the utmost contempt for the autonomy of
self identity, sovereign authority, law and order as justice.

Has heaven's gate ever opened for you to answer your call?

Keep calm Colonel, but quiet contemplation can even bring you before all
that is Sovereign."

dolf: "You are engaged within foolish, defamatory conduct and vain
imaginations by preserving your egoistic self identity through making a
profession of a psychiatric disorder of others.

Where as I'm speaking entirely of a mathematical paradigm of rational
and a reasoned mind.

Q. *What* *is* *truth*? [Pilate asked Jesus of Nazareth before #34CE]

A. *Truth* is a cosmogonic consideration.

It is an argument between which 'HETEROS' v's 'HOMOIOS' as the THEORY OF
NUMBER constitutes the mind created in the image of the Creator God as
the Father (Godhead/*DIVINE* Nature as Mind) [Luke 4:5-24 (KJV); Romans
1:16-32]?

HE IS INCAPABLE AND UNWILLING TO ENGAGE WITHIN ANY RATIONALITY AND BY
HIS UNLAWFUL CONDUCT OUGHT TO BE DISQUALIFIED FROM ACCESS TO THE INTERNET.

- dolf

-------- Forwarded Message --------
Path: buffer1.nntp.dca1.giganews.com!news.giganews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail
NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 03 Jul 2016 11:37:57 -0500
From: Christopher A. Lee <c....@fairpoint.net>
Newsgroups: alt.atheism,alt.christnet.christianlife,aus.media-watch
Subject: Re: -- TOO GUTLESS TO EXPRESS AN OPINION ABOUT THE EVIDENCE FOR
THE EXISTENCE OF THE DIVINE ON THIS 4TH JULY 2016
Date: Sun, 03 Jul 2016 11:37:55 -0500
Message-ID: <iefinbd64goovoibe...@4ax.com>
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<57783f30$0$2241$1c46...@news.club.cc.cmu.edu>
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On 4/07/2016 02:37, Christopher A. Lee wrote:
> On Mon, 4 Jul 2016 02:27:31 +1000, "Christopher A. Lee"
> <c....@fairpoint.net> wrote:
>
>> Path:
buffer2.nntp.dca1.giganews.com!nntp.westnet.com.au!news.westnet.com.au.POSTED!not-for-mail
>> NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 03 Jul 2016 11:27:32 -0500 From:
>> "Christopher A. Lee" <c....@fairpoint.net> Subject: -- TOO GUTLESS
>> TO EXPRESS AN OPINION ABOUT THE EVIDENCE FOR THE EXISTENCE OF THE
>> DIVINE ON THIS 4TH JULY 2016
>
> WHAT FUCKING EVIDENCE FOR WHAT FUCKING EXISTENCE OF WHAT FUCKING
> DEITY was Adolph the phycho who spams his unsolicited and off-topic
> nonsense to a whole slew of groups and then forges those who tell
> him where to shove it, lying about?
>
> [more than three thousand lines of sheer insanity deleted]
>
> The original has been forwarded to ab...@westnet.com.au,
>

That your concern over such a non-entity is an illogical response from
you--evidently you can't address the 3,000+ lines of evidence conveying
a unity of apperception about the existence of God Almighty.

CHRISTOPHER (ATHEIST) LEE: "WHAT F@CKING QUESTION OF WHAT F@CKING *DIVINE*?"

CHRISTOPHER (ATHEIST) LEE: "It's not our job to do your work for you.

You're supposed to know what evidence there is for something you can't
even describe, but we're not mind readers to know what you think you've got.

WHAT F@CKING QUESTION OF WHAT F@CKING *DIVINE* outside your religion?"

CHRISTOPHER (ATHEIST) LEE: "What part of SOMETHING THAT POINTS
INESCAPABLY TO THE CONCLUSION, AND CAN BE DEFENDED AS SUCH, are you
pretending you are too stupid to understand.

We have no idea what you think you've got, and you never describe your
hypothetical god in such a way that we even know what you're talking about."

So I will repeat it again for you on this 4 July, 2016 (AEST) and warn
you to be careful of your conduct lest you pervert the DAY and offend
the American national ethos.

CHRISTOPHER (ATHEIST) LEE: "WHAT F@CKING *DIVINE*, IN THE REAL WORLD
BEYOND CHRISTIAN THEOLOGY, imbecile?

You won't read this, but it was published all over the place and went
viral on the net. It describes *you*.

He won't read this, but it describes *him*...

The substance of such evidence as courteous response to your earnest
questioning was obtained from the date of 14 February 2014 for the
publication of the report titled: '*INTERNET* *TROLLS* *REALLY* *ARE*
*HORRIBLE* *PEOPLE*: *NARCISSISTIC*, *MACHIAVELLIAN*, *PSYCHOPATHIC*,
*AND* *SADISTIC*' which was produced by you using the very mathematical
and rational paradigm of the *DIVINE* mind as Godhead previously defined
by me as an intellectual property.

Nous: #55
Time:
Date: 2014.2.14
Torah: #1 #6 #40 %81 = #47
Dao: Abstruse Mysterious Signs
Tetra: #54 - Unity
I-Ching:H22 - Grace

Latin: Annunciatus {Patient God} Alt: Lalahel {That Which is Not is Not
of God} {
1. AIDS AGAINST DESPERATION & TROUBLE, ALSO STRENGTHENS PATIENCE
2. THE GENERATION OF MEN & ANIMALS
3. CHEMIST, DOCTORS & SURGEONS
4. Phuonisie
}
Boaz {In strength}

SUPER (MALE) IDEA: #320

dolf: "Let me explain it in the juxtaposed manner of a recent study,
where trolls were identified in a variety of ways. One was by simply
asking survey participants what they 'enjoyed doing most' when on online
comment sites, offering the following options:

- Machiavellianism (willingness to manipulate and deceive others),
- narcissism (egotism and self-obsession),
- psychopathy (the lack of remorse and empathy), and
- sadism (pleasure in the suffering of others).

Ultimately, the allure of trolling may be too strong for sadists, who
presumably have limited opportunities to express their sadistic
interests in a socially-desirable manner.

-
http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/climate_desk/2014/02/internet_troll_personality_study_machiavellianism_narcissism_psychopathy.html

The real reason is that they show the utmost contempt for the autonomy
of self identity, sovereign authority, law and order as justice and have
no substantial alternative explanation, except to claim a delusional and
fantastical belief in myths, hearsay and nothingness."

EGO (FEMALE) IDEA: #340

Speaking of which, I liked this flourish in my response to your claim
there was no evidence produced:

A PLAGUE OF LOCUSTS IN RUSSIA:

"Swarms of locusts have invaded parts of Russia, including Sochi, which
hosted the Winter Olympics in 2014.

Emergency services say the number of vermin is on the increase due to
the migration of the Moroccan locust species from the south of the country."

-
http://www.euronews.com/nocomment/2016/07/03/locust-influx-causing-concern-in-russia/

#1, #20, #100, #10, #4, #5, #200 - akris (G200): 1) a locust,
particularly that species which especially infests oriental countries,
stripping fields and trees. Numberless swarms of them almost every
spring are carried by the wind from Arabia into Palestine, and having
devastated that country, migrate to regions farther north, until they
perish by falling into the sea. The Orientals accustomed to feed upon
locusts, either raw or roasted and seasoned with salt (or prepared in
other ways), and the Israelites also were permitted to eat them.;

dolf: "Again you are showing the utmost contempt for the autonomy of
self identity, sovereign authority, law and order as justice.

Has heaven's gate ever opened for you to answer your call?

Keep calm Colonel, but quiet contemplation can even bring you before all
that is Sovereign."

QUEEN ELIZABETH MEETS NICOLA STURGEON AS SHE ATTENDS THE OPENING OF THE
SCOTTISH PARLIAMENT IN EDINBURGH:

Britain's Queen Elizabeth has stressed the need for political leaders to
make "room for quiet thinking and contemplation" to deal with
developments in a "fast-moving world".

The monarch used her address at the opening of the fifth session of the
Scottish Parliament to refer to "increasingly complex and demanding" times.

The opening ceremony was held just over a week after the UK voted to
leave the European Union - but Scotland's vote to stay prompted fresh
fears over the future of the Union, with a second independence
referendum now a real possibility.

The Queen said: "Of course we all live and work in an increasingly
complex and demanding world where events and developments can and do
take place with remarkable speed, and retaining the ability to stay calm
and collected can at times be hard.

- http://m.rte.ie/news/2016/0702/799731-brexit-scotland/

#60, #200, #20, #10, #50 - carek (Aramaic) (H5632): 1) chief, overseer;

"All the presidents {carek (Aramaic)-president [H5632]: #340} of the
kingdom, the governors, and the princes, the counsellors, and the
captains, have consulted together to establish a royal statute, and to
make a firm decree, that whosoever shall ask a petition of any God or
man for thirty days, save of thee, O king, he shall be cast into the den
of lions." [Daniel 6:7]

#5, #100, #10, #9, #5, #10, #1, #200 - eritheia (G2052): 1)
electioneering or intriguing for office; 1a) apparently, in the NT a
courting distinction, a desire to put one's self forward, a partisan and
fractious spirit which does not disdain low arts; 1b) partisanship,
fractiousness;

MAJOR PARTIES IN FEDERAL ELECTION OF 2 JULY, 20-16 ARE UNDER *SIEGE* AS
'VOTER RAGE' TAKES HOLD:

"Nothing is resolved. If Malcolm Turnbull forms Government it will be
with the barest of majorities, or in an alliance with the crossbench.

He will face enemies across the aisle and in his ranks and a Senate with
at least as many weird moving parts as the one he just expunged.

In his early morning speech he invoked John Howard's narrow victory in
1998 as a talisman for how he might cobble something that looks like a
victory from this ruin.

The comparison fails because Mr Howard was a consummate politician and
the Prime Minister has just proved, again, that he is not.

He appealed to Australians to trust him but too many recalled the
Coalition's shattered promises of the 2014 Budget.

Labor's 'Mediscare' campaign was outrageous but it worked because the
Coalition had provided field evidence that people had a reason to be afraid.

Mr Turnbull promised stability, expecting people to forget how he got
his job.

Given he made such heavy work of his first months as Prime Minister it
is not unreasonable to ask how he will navigate the rough water on the
horizon.

His intellect is not in question, it's his capacity to unify his party
and successfully get any of his, modest, agenda through both houses of
Parliament."

-
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-07-03/election-2016-turnbull-and-shorten-have-plenty-to-worry-about/7565704dolf

GOVERNMENT (FASCIST) SHILL #2 (GOV....@GMAIL.COM): "You're correct.

I am contemptuous of both "god" and the British monarchy.

One being fictitious and the other a bunch of useless parasites."

dolf: "Making a reasonable supposition as a logical, probable and
hypothetical proposition, which is then predicated upon by a determined
course of affirmative action to inform oneself through inquisition as
elimination--is the process of a rational mind practiced in acquiring
knowledge and explicit specification within categories of understanding.

That in my view, punctiliousness is an intrinsic phonetic correspondence
and functional cognitive characteristic of mind. [Courtesy: Word of the
Day for 2 July 2016, www.dictionary.com]

For example, if all but the first and last letters are scrambled and the
sentence is entirely ambiguous, you can still disambiguate the word and
fully comprehend the sentence, Cambridge University researchers suggest:

"Taht in my veiw, psciiouelnunsts is an insniirtc phteinoc
conrecoednprse and fancounitl cvgiinote cartarseiichtc of mnid."

- http://douglastwitchell.com/scrambled_words.php

Confusion like fear and paranoia which steadfastly and habitually
refuses to overcome its ignorant state by informing itself, can then be
considered delusional."

RL MEASURES: "When you exceed the word limit I balk."

dolf: "Eternity Lost...

Why are you an Apologist for Nothingness -- What Godless Jewish cult do
you belong to?"

RL MEASURES: "Too long."

dolf: "Narcissist...

120 Days Of Sodom [Salo/*Sale*]?"

NOW GIVE IT YOUR BEST SHOT AT A RATIONAL AND REASONABLE RESPONSE AS THE
3,000+ LINES OF EVIDENCE WHICH YOU HAVE IGNORED IS REPEATED BELOW.

ONE LAST COMMENT:

dolf: "You are engaged within foolish, defamatory conduct and vain
imaginations by preserving your egoistic self identity through making a
profession of a psychiatric disorder of others.

Where as I'm speaking entirely of a mathematical paradigm of rational
and a reasoned mind.

Q. *What* *is* *truth*? [Pilate asked Jesus of Nazareth before #34CE]

A. *Truth* is a cosmogonic consideration.

It is an argument between which 'HETEROS' v's 'HOMOIOS' as the THEORY OF
NUMBER constitutes the mind created in the image of the Creator God as
the Father (Godhead/*DIVINE* Nature as Mind) [Luke 4:5-24 (KJV); Romans
1:16-32]?"

- dolf

----------
IN SUPPORT OF THE CLAIM TO TREASON I SUBMIT THIS POST:

- https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BzRmc7Bm7indZEZ2amJyR2tubkE

Initial Post: 4 May, 2016

----------
IN SUPPORT OF THE NATURAL, COMMON LAW RIGHT TO AUTONOMY OF SELF
IDENTITY, SOVEREIGN AUTHORITY, LAW AND ORDER AS JUSTICE I SUBMIT THIS POST:

- https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BzRmc7Bm7indX3p5bzVxWER6VFE

Initial Post: 28 June, 2016

On 4/07/2016 11:29, Gordon <gord...@swbell.net> wrote:
> On Sun, 3 Jul 2016 17:06:25 -0500, Francher <donot...@noreply.net>
> wrote:
>

> I keep the Lord's Sabbath but I don't intend to make any moves to
> convince you or anyone else that this is prudent.
>>

>> Personally, I have never seen any evidence for a God that resembles
>> the Christian. Judaic, or Islamic portrayal of God.
>>

> The thing we must deal with here is that those ancient scribes wrote
> the information down in a form that the people of those times could
> interpret and tell to other tribal members on down through the
> generations. In order for us to grasp the meaning we have to set
> aside our modern scientific/cultural thinking and go at it the way
> those people did. Allegories, parables, similes, etc. were best way
> they could handle this.
>>

>> I am the doubting Thomas that believes in what evidence I find
>> extremely credible. When it comes to religion, I am not willing to
>> believe what someone else is telling me. I know that they don't
>> know any more than I do. I cannot accept the writings from the
>> people who wrote the current version of the Christian Bible or by
>> Mohamed.
>>

> Mohamed was a firm Christian. It wasn't until Abu Bakr and his
> cronies decided to modify Mohamed's teachings and try to keep the
> Arabs from becoming bonded with and controlled by the Western Roman
> Empire. They killed Muhammad and blamed this killing on a defenseless
> Jewess, then modified Muhammad's teachings such that their people and
> their mode of worship could never become a subservient colony.
>
> They denied that Jesus was God incarnate and claimed that he wasn't
> crucified then raised from the dead but had a likeness crucified in
> his place. This would make Jesus a liar and a deceiver, but they
> regard him as a major prophet, second only to their revised version
> of Muhammad.

THAT IS THE IDEOLOGICAL CRUX OF THE MATTER:

It is an argument between which 'HETEROS' v's 'HOMOIOS' as the THEORY OF
NUMBER constitutes the mind created in the image of the Creator God as
the Father (Godhead/*DIVINE* Nature as Mind) [Luke 4:5-24 (KJV); Romans
1:16-32]?

As a consequence they show by a hymenealism (marriage as an
institutionalized religious beief) an utmost contempt for the autonomy
of self identity, sovereign authority, law and order as justice.

>>
>> I have experienced events that are direct evidence for the survival
>> of our personality/mind after death. I have seen direct evidence
>> for reincarnation. I do take on faith what my wife tells me. I do
>> so because she has a very long track record of being extremely
>> accurate in her statements to me. I cannot extend that faith to
>> preachers, priests, or long dead people. I do not know them well
>> enough. I do know that most of them have had influences that could
>> well inspire them to make up stuff.
>>

> I also have experienced such events. The first came when I was about
> 12 years old. It was a feeling of some level of communication beyond
> the here and now and I felt really elevated, spiritually.
>>

>> It is however clear to me that my level of intelligence is very
>> puny when compared to what it would take to understand the
>> extremely complex universe in which we abide.
>>

> None of us, or all of us collectively are intelligent enough to
> understand these things to the extent that God understands them. We
> simply must rely upon faith and trust in the Lord.
>>

>> There are stories in the Christian Bible that are allegedly spoken
>> by Jesus. Some of these stories are multi-layered and come from
>> someone who had considerable wisdom. I do think that there was most
>> probably an individual who lived back 2 millenia who inspired many
>> with his teachings. I have read about saintly behaviour and
>> observed what I considered saintly behaviour among some of my
>> colleagues. But again, the evidence I have seen does not suggest
>> the existence of an over-mind that created this universe and loves
>> me.
>>

> I can see your point if you are trying to conceptualize God as a
> supreme being such as He is often pictured. I don't think God is a
> material being of any form. I think he is a form of cosmic
> consciousness that extends throughout the multiverse and functions
> somewhat like the synapses in our brains, but at an infinitely
> greater level. Something like quantum entanglements between the
> sub-atomic particles throughout the universe may be the way this mind
> is put together.
>>

>> I am not so arrogant as to state that there is no "God". I find
>> that kind of atheism repugnant to me. These atheists don't have any
>> special knowledge to be making that statement. I could infer from
>> my near death episode and other direct observations of this world
>> that there is a God. I chose not to make that rather large leap.
>> But, I could only say that someone might make that inference. It
>> would not be proof or fact.
>>

> I could never even come close to explaining the things that I have
> observed and the thoughts that pervade my mind, except to go with
> the idea that my mind is somehow linked to the mind of God.
>>

>> I am not challenging your faith Gordon. I have no special knowledge
>> to do so.
>>
>> Francher
>>

[Jeanne Douglas]

In article <4olinb1h46ikcnpjb...@4ax.com>,

What's your evidence that these other dimensions exist?

[Jeanne Douglas]

In article <5clinb9qnb4lp11fh...@4ax.com>,

Gordon <gord...@swbell.net> wrote:

> On Sun, 03 Jul 2016 10:03:56 +1000, Lucifer Morningstar
> <Ba...@saymyname.com> wrote:
>
> >On Sat, 02 Jul 2016 19:37:01 -0400, Vincent Maycock <vam...@aol.com>
> >wrote:
> >
> >>On Sat, 02 Jul 2016 15:27:32 -0500, Gordon <gord...@swbell.net>
> >>wrote:
> >>
> >>>On Sun, 03 Jul 2016 02:01:31 +1000, A little knowledge
> >>><litt...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>
> <snip>
> >>>Looking down scale, the dimension set V, W & X could be the first
> >>>level of Satan's domain and the dimension set W, X & Y could be the
> >>>second level of Satan's domain, and so on.
> >>>
> >>>This is just an idea that is fun to play around with but who knows???
> >>>Maybe it is close to being right???
> >>
> >>Those extra dimensions are thought to be compactified. I don't think
> >>Satan, if he existed, would fit into them!
> >
> >The extra dimensions don't exist, nor does the multiverse, nor
> >do black holes.
> >
> Right, from the perspective that we are able to use, but if we could
> somehow move into a space frame outside ours they would be real and
> physical.

What's your evidence that that assertion?

[Lucifer Morningstar]

We don't need no stinkin' evidence!

>--
>
>JD

[Lucifer Morningstar]

That's a classic example of you calling God an idiot.
Do you really think God will find itself guilty?
No heaven for you!

>the dukester, American-American

[Lucifer Morningstar]

On Sun, 03 Jul 2016 20:29:06 -0500, Gordon <gord...@swbell.net>
wrote:

>On Sun, 3 Jul 2016 17:06:25 -0500, Francher <donot...@noreply.net>
>wrote:
>

Which sabbath?

>>Personally, I have never seen any evidence for a God that resembles the
>>Christian. Judaic, or Islamic portrayal of God.
>>
>The thing we must deal with here is that those ancient scribes wrote
>the information down in a form that the people of those times could
>interpret and tell to other tribal members on down through the
>generations. In order for us to grasp the meaning we have to set aside
>our modern scientific/cultural thinking and go at it the way those
>people did. Allegories, parables, similes, etc. were best way they
>could handle this.

So they used "God" as a parable for pure evil?

>>I am the doubting Thomas that believes in what evidence I find extremely
>>credible. When it comes to religion, I am not willing to believe what
>>someone else is telling me. I know that they don't know any more than I
>>do. I cannot accept the writings from the people who wrote the current
>>version of the Christian Bible or by Mohamed.
>>
>Mohamed was a firm Christian. It wasn't until Abu Bakr and his cronies
>decided to modify Mohamed's teachings and try to keep the Arabs from
>becoming bonded with and controlled by the Western Roman Empire. They
>killed Muhammad and blamed this killing on a defenseless Jewess, then
>modified Muhammad's teachings such that their people and their mode of
>worship could never become a subservient colony.
>
>They denied that Jesus was God incarnate and claimed that he wasn't
>crucified then raised from the dead but had a likeness crucified in
>his place. This would make Jesus a liar and a deceiver, but they
>regard him as a major prophet, second only to their revised version of
>Muhammad.

Where was your magical God while all that was happening?

>>I have experienced events that are direct evidence for the survival of
>>our personality/mind after death. I have seen direct evidence for
>>reincarnation. I do take on faith what my wife tells me. I do so because
>>she has a very long track record of being extremely accurate in her
>>statements to me. I cannot extend that faith to preachers, priests, or
>>long dead people. I do not know them well enough. I do know that most of
>>them have had influences that could well inspire them to make up stuff.
>>
>I also have experienced such events. The first came when I was about
>12 years old. It was a feeling of some level of communication beyond
>the here and now and I felt really elevated, spiritually.

schizophrenia.

>>It is however clear to me that my level of intelligence is very puny
>>when compared to what it would take to understand the extremely complex
>>universe in which we abide.
>>
>None of us, or all of us collectively are intelligent enough to
>understand these things to the extent that God understands them. We
>simply must rely upon faith and trust in the Lord.

How long have you believed yourself to be Lord?

I'm sure there are better groups to share your common mental
illness.

[Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD]

Barry Heisenberg wrote in part:
>
> From Greek philosopher Epicurius,
>
> "Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
> Then he is not omnipotent.
> Is he able, but not willing?
> Then he is malevolent.
> Is he both able and willing?
> Then whence cometh evil?
> Is he neither able nor willing?
> Then why call him God?"

This physician ( http://WDJW.net/HeartDoc ) shares that GOD is both
able and willing to prevent evil by helping us successfully
(Philippians 4:13) http://WDJW.net/Guard (Proverbs 4:23) the heart
(Matthew 15:19) which would otherwise drag (Jeremiah 17:9) us to
thinking/saying/writing **and** doing evil as Epicurus has noted.
Those of us who are born again (John 3:3 & 5) can prove that our
benevolent (Jeremiah 9:24) omnipotent GOD exists as explained at
http://WDJW.net/1Cor123

Source:
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/sci.med.cardiology/pdO7EK7kbKM/eHgYzuV7EwAJ

Barry Heisenberg asked:
>
> Is it possible for three people to have a common friend, but have
> wildly different views about him, his views and his character?

It is written that with GOD, all things are possible (Matthew 19:26)

> Wouldn't that indicate that at least two of them, and possibly all
> three of them, were mistaken, or lying?

It is written that we are Jesus' friends (John 15:14) if we love (John
15:12) each other as He loves (John 15:13) us and that we, who are
Jesus' friends are recognized (John 13:35) by this greater (John
15:13) love that we have for one another.

Just as Jesus loves us by convincing us of our needs as in the example
of His convincing Peter of his needing his feet washed by Him, we love
one another when we http://WDJW.net/ConvinceItForward our need to
always say/write that we're "wonderfully hungry" (
http://bit.ly/Philippians4_12 ) in **all** ways including especially
caring to "convince it forward."

> Well, why can't people who claim to have a personal relationship with
> Jesus agree on what he wants and what he's like?

Actually, all who **show** that they personally know (1 John 4:8) GOD
will agree it's written that "GOD is love" :-)

Source:
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/sci.med.cardiology/pdO7EK7kbKM/Vn8ZMz7VEgAJ

Barry Heisenberg wrote:
> Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote:
>> Barry Heisenberg wrote:
>>> Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote:
>>>> Duke wrote:
>>>>> Barry Heisenberg wrote:
>>>>>> Duke wrote:
>>>>>>> Barry Heisenberg asked:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pwf6QD-REMY
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Absolutely yes.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So it is meaningless to say God is good.
>>>>>
>>>>> We already know that.
>>>>
>>>> Indeed it is written that **only** GOD is good (Matthew 19:17).
>>
>>> It is also written you should not believe everything you read.
>>
>> Actually it's **not** written in the Bible that "you should not
>> believe everything you read."
>
> There is much missing in the bible.

Indeed, the most important thing that is missing in the Bible is
Apostle Paul's secret ( http://bit.ly/Philippians4_12 ) concerning how
to be hungry and satisfied at the same time.

>> Instead, what's written in the Bible is that all Scripture (2 Timothy
>> 3:16) is useful for learning about what is right.

Source:
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/sci.med.cardiology/13BKRyaSmG0/RBYUk83pEQAJ

> As long as you think genocide is right.

It is written that we're not to lean on our own understanding
(Proverbs 3:5) but to instead trust the LORD our Mighty (Isaiah 9:6)
GOD with all our heart, which means to lean on Him to "learn about
what is right."

Source:
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/sci.med.cardiology/Cw1-qgKTcpI/tFpT5itVEgAJ

Barry Heisenberg wrote:
> Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote:
>> Barry Eisenberg wrote:
>>> Duke wrote:
>>>> Barry Eisenberg asked:

>>>>
>>>>> Has anyone seen God or not?
>>>>

>>>> Nope.
>>>
>>> If you are saying people haven't seen God and haven't
>>> not seen God the bible agrees with you.
>>>
>>> Has seen
>>>
>>> (Gen. 17:1)--“Now when Abram was ninety-nine years old, the
>>> LORD appeared to Abram and said to him, "I am God Almighty; Walk
>>> before Me, and be blameless;"
>>> (Gen. 18:1) Now the LORD appeared to him by the oaks of Mamre,
>>> while he was sitting at the tent door in the heat of the day.”
>>> (Exodus 6:2-3)--"God spoke further to Moses and said to him,
>>> "I am the LORD; 3and I appeared to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, as God
>>> Almighty, but by My name, LORD, I did not make Myself known to them.”
>>> (Exodus 24:9-11)--“Then Moses went up with Aaron, Nadab and
>>> Abihu, and seventy of the elders of Israel, 10and they saw the God of
>>> Israel; and under His feet there appeared to be a pavement of
>>> sapphire, as clear as the sky itself. 11Yet He did not stretch out His
>>> hand against the nobles of the sons of Israel; and they saw God, and
>>> they ate and drank.”
>>> (Num. 12:6-8)--“He said, "Hear now My words: If there is a
>>> prophet among you, I, the LORD, shall make Myself known to him in a
>>> vision. I shall speak with him in a dream. 7"Not so, with My servant
>>> Moses, He is faithful in all My household; 8With him I speak mouth to
>>> mouth, Even openly, and not in dark sayings, And he beholds the form
>>> of the LORD. Why then were you not afraid To speak against My servant,
>>> against Moses?"
>>> (Acts 7:2), "And he [Stephen] said, 'Hear me, brethren and
>>> fathers! The God of glory appeared to our father Abraham when he was
>>> in Mesopotamia, before he lived in Haran . . . '"
>>>
>>> Has not seen
>>>
>>> (Exodus 33:20)--“But He [God] said, "You cannot see My face,
>>> for no man can see Me and live!"
>>> (John 1:18)--“No one has seen God at any time; the only
>>> begotten God who is in the bosom of the Father, He has explained Him.”
>>> (John 5:37)--“"And the Father who sent Me, He has testified of
>>> Me. You have neither heard His voice at any time nor seen His form.”
>>> (John 6:46)--"Not that anyone has seen the Father, except the
>>> One who is from God; He has seen the Father.”
>>> (1 Tim. 6:15-16)--“He who is the blessed and only Sovereign,
>>> the King of kings and Lord of lords, 16who alone possesses immortality
>>> and dwells in unapproachable light, whom no man has seen or can see.
>>> To Him be honour and eternal dominion! Amen.”
>>
>>
>> "About noon, King Agrippa, as I was on the road, I saw a light from
>> Heaven, brighter than the Sun, blazing around me and my companions. We
>> all fell to the ground, and I heard a voice saying to me in
>> Aramaic,‘Saul, Saul, why do you persecute Me? It is hard for you to
>> kick against the goads.’ Then I asked, ‘Who are You, LORD?’ ‘I am
>> Jesus, whom you are persecuting,’ the LORD replied. ‘Now get up and
>> stand on your feet. I have appeared to you to appoint you as a servant
>> and as a witness of what you have seen and will see of Me." (Acts
>> 26:13-16)
>>
>> GOD "dwells in unapproachable light" (1 Timothy 6:16) which is
>> "brighter than the Sun" (Acts 26:13) so that if allowed to "behold the
>> form of the LORD" (Numbers 12:8), we'd only be able to look down away
>> from His face to see "under His feet (that) there appeared to be a
>> pavement of sapphire, as clear as the sky itself" (Exodus 24:10) and
>> our faces would be glowing like Moses' reportedly was from being
>> exposed to light that is "brighter than the Sun" (Acts 26:13).

Source:
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/sci.med.cardiology/u1-4wTOL9Yo/mP7jhnMBEQAJ

> Has anyone seen God **or** not?

**emphasis** added.

The perfect (Matthew 5:48) **logical** answer to your question is
simply "yes" according to the Holy Spirit-guided exegesis of Biblical
verses given above with all glory ( http://bit.ly/Psalm112_1 ) to GOD
:-)

>> Barry Heisenberg asked:
>>
>>> What Would Jesus NOT Do?

>> LORD Jesus Christ of Nazareth would not ask "How are you ?" simply
>> because He already knows with the latter being consistent with His
>> being GOD (John 20:28).

Source:
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/sci.med.cardiology/cGsEdDBohnM/5rG4q1LUAwAJ

> Nothing useful apparently.

Indeed everything LORD Jesus Christ of Nazareth does is useful :-)

> How are you HeartDoc Andrew?

Source:
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/sci.med.cardiology/u1-4wTOL9Yo/SQHWVRcDEQAJ

I am "wonderfully hungry" ( http://bit.ly/Philippians4_12 ) and hope
you, Barry, also have a healthy appetite too :-)

So how are you ?













... because we mindfully choose to openly care with our heart,

HeartDoc Andrew <><
--
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Emory's IMVC.org cardiologist (GA Lic#040347)
and author of "Trust the Truth - Only the truth can cure the 'hunger
is starvation' delusion:"
http://WDJW.net/T3Book

"no one can say 'Jesus is LORD' except by the Holy Spirit."(1Cor12:3)
http://WDJW.net/1Cor123

What are the Keys of the Kingdom of Heaven?
http://WDJW.net/Matt1619

What is the "hunger is starvation" delusion?
http://bit.ly/TerriblyHungry

[Gordon]

-- Karl Barth on Knowledge of God

(c) 2016 Dolf Leendert Boek, Revision: 4 July, 2016

For all his Wisdom, Karl Barth is proven incorrect within this statement:

"There is no knowledge of God apart from the way which Jesus walked, the
way which Jesus is, the way which Jesus called his disciples to follow.
There is no knowledge of God apart from this response of faith." [Karl
Barth CD II/1, 29]

- https://www.facebook.com/Karl-Barth-for-Dummies-178609685499598

Q. *What* *is* *truth*? [Pilate asked Jesus of Nazareth before #34CE]

A. *Truth* is a cosmogonic consideration.

If language then has a cosmological basis (ie. rational PI), as an
Anthropic Principle which was known from antiquity, then language isn't
just a metaphorical derivation, but it also has an absolute epistemology
(from Greek ἐπιστήμη, epistēmē meaning 'knowledge', and λόγος, logos,
meaning 'word') as the branch of philosophy concerned with the theory of
knowledge:

"And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.

And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from
the darkness. And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called
Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day." [Genesis
1:3-5 (KJV)]

I have previously said, that the motto of the British Monarchy and our
Justice System is DIEU ET MON DROIT (ie. GOD AND MY RIGHT) and this
totality of a "Sovereign and Autonomous Right" as the "Power to Rule"
and "Dispense Justice" by "Edict as a *DIVINE* Authority", can be
understood in God (Godhead/*DIVINE* Nature as Mind) being defined by:

- "I am Alpha (ie. of Hebrew origin; the first letter of the alphabet)
and Omega (ie. last letter of the Greek alphabet)" [Revelation 1:8, 11;
21:6, 13],
- "The first-PRŌTOS and the last-ESCHATOS" [Revelation 1:11; 22:13];
- "The beginning-ARCHE and the ending-TELOS" [Revelation 1:8; 21:6; 22:13].

-
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=476109865916188&set=pcb.476110049249503

'For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any
two-edged sword, piercing even to the *dividing* asunder of soul and
spirit, and of the joints of the marrow, and is a discerner of the
thoughts and intentions of the intents of the heart' [Hebrews 4:12]

The great thing about this Intellectual Property of MINE as a legal
argument: (Dieu et mon droit) is that this technology for "Judging,
Weighing and Integrity of Words" is not only embedded within the Bible
as Scriptures and given assent to through an oath, swearing by Almighty
God, but is compatible with the regime of numbered and natural
jurisprudence (ie. the Categories of Understanding as #729 appraisals
within the GRAPPLE HOMOIOTIC NOUMENON as a theoretical and metaphysical
conception of the Godhead/Divine Nature as Mind, in being a reasonable
consideration, then ought to equate with the numbered paragraphs) as
being a mandatory prerequisite for the presenting of any legal case
before a court of law.

So there ought not to be then any instance of perverse Justice.

Making a reasonable supposition as a logical, probable and hypothetical
proposition, which is then predicated upon by a determined course of
affirmative action to inform oneself through inquisition as
elimination--is the process of a rational mind practiced in acquiring
knowledge and explicit specification within categories of understanding.

That in my view, punctiliousness is an intrinsic phonetic correspondence
and functional cognitive characteristic of mind. [Courtesy: Word of the
Day for 2 July 2016, www.dictionary.com]

For example, if all but the first and last letters are scrambled and the
sentence is entirely ambiguous, you can still disambiguate the word and
fully comprehend the sentence, Cambridge University researchers suggest:

"Taht in my veiw, psciiouelnunsts is an insniirtc phteinoc
conrecoednprse and fancounitl cvgiinote cartarseiichtc of mnid."

- http://douglastwitchell.com/scrambled_words.php

Confusion like fear and paranoia which steadfastly and habitually
refuses to overcome its ignorant state by informing itself, can then be
considered delusional.

It is an argument between which 'HETEROS' v's 'HOMOIOS' as the THEORY OF
NUMBER constitutes the mind created in the image of the Creator God as
the Father (Godhead/*DIVINE* Nature as Mind) [Luke 4:5-24 (KJV); Romans
1:16-32]?"

1) Torah's Sabbath (HOMOIOS) view of Telos [122J3W1D] = Arch [3W1D] + c²
[9(9²+1)/2] is a genuine Sabbath based Genesis reprise [Exodus 20:8;
Deuteronomy 5:15];

-
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=470766699783838&set=rpd.100005515364934

This is an alternative HOMOIOS THEORY OF NUMBER being a theoretical and
metaphysical noumenon, conception of the Godhead/*DIVINE* and a
determined contrivance associated with attributed time (COURSE-trochos
OF NATURE-genesis), autonomous sovereignty as empire governance,
language, rationality and the reasoned mind of religious belief:

Telos (6,000) = Arch (0) + c² : arch kai telos oida {1 + 2 + 3 + 4 = 10}

Where the c² is equivalent to a constant dependent on n, calculated by
the formula:

M = [n(n² + 1)] / 2

+ 0, 27, 54 {ie. Realm of its Nature as Heaven - Formula of Universal Law}
+ 0, 9, 18 {ie. System's Cosmology as Earth - Formula of Humanity}
+ 0, 3, 6 {ie. Self identity - Formula of Autonomy}
+ *1* - *MONAD*, *2* - *DUAD*, *3* - *TRIAD* {ie. Formula of Progression
of individual phenomena (Wan Wu)}

= Tetragrammaton hierarchy value as HOMOIOS THEORY OF NUMBER.

+ 0, 81, 9(9²+1)/2 = #369 {ie. Organization of the myriad or number of
things}

It is not a claim that the earth and universe is only 6,000 years old,
but rather a proposition of relativity within billions of years and a
noumenal focal point as a development by which rationality transpires,
reason springs forth and that is characteristic to being human:

HOMO ('man') / HOMOIOS (*same*, *equal* *in* *force*, *a* *match* *for*
*one*, *all* *one* *to* *us*, of *numbers*, *square*, *the* *product*
*of* *two* *equal* *factors*), SAPIENS ('thinker') / SAPIENT ('being a
wise/wisdom thinker') [Deuteronomy 4:32; Genesis 1:26]

The development of the GRAPPLE HOMOIOTIC NOUMENON is my claim to an
Intellectual Property as being compliant with a Natural Law and Common
Law right, in that it establishes the prima facie claim, that my past
conduct has integrity, and with regards to an expression of an Autonomy
of Will."

2) Pythagorean (HETEROS) Theorem: a² = b² + c² is associated to Roman
Empire Governance, Roman Catholicism (et al) and fascist (see image below)

-
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=472314136295761&set=rpd.100005515364934

I am showing you by this hymenealism (ie. marriage as an
institutionalized values based religious belief, disbelief or
non-belief) the cause of an utmost contempt for the autonomy of self

identity, sovereign authority, law and order as justice.

Satan's temptation against Jesus {He is saved/A savior; a deliverer} of
Nazareth {Sovereign; one chosen or set apart; separated; crowned;
sanctified} within the wilderness is made against the Sovereignty of
Roman Empire Governance:

a) Showed unto him all the KINGDOMS (BASILEIA) of the WORLD (OIKOUMENĒ);

b) Said unto him, 'All this power (EXOUSIA) will I give thee";

Jesus Christ's wilderness temptation was a refusal of this Satanic
prerogative (ie. as a dependency on the Pythagorean HETEROS Theory of
Number and its reliance upon the progression of #15CE ... #34CE ...
#65CE ... #2000CE < --- Holy Catholic 'Satanic' Tradition et al as
faux-sophistic wisdom) in deference for a HOMOIOS regard to the Creator

God as the Father (Godhead/*DIVINE* Nature as Mind) [Luke 4:5-24 (KJV);

Romans 1:16-32; James 3:5-9 (KJV)]"

The argument on the '*CAUSE* *OF* *TRUTH*' being advanced within the
Apostle Paul's Epistle to the Romans Chapter 1 as a HETEROS v's HOMOIOS
THEORY OF NUMBER misapprehension of his encapsulation of knowledge, is
made in relation to being mindful in our knowing of God (ie. not
changing the *truth* of God into a lie), which is expressed by the
Apostle Paul about not having a mindset encapsulated by the profession
of wisdom that is contradictory (ie. a situation in which inconsistent
elements are present such as in the HETEROS {*1* - *MONAD*, *2* -
*DUAD*, *3* - *TRIAD*} formulation represents GOD as MIND, SEMINAL
REASON, GENITURE, SOUL, CAUSE OF DISSIMILARS, SUBSTANCE and *CAUSE* *OF*
*TRUTH* being HERMAPHRODITE) and ostensibly presumptuous conduct, as our
ability of the mind to not be intentioned by the preoccupation in the
engagement of foolishness and vain imaginations."

And which in conclusion was recently expressed in the instance of a
field test as "Slave Mentality" poetry being the exercise of a
determined willed and voluntary focus of thought upon a specific
Daemon/Angel which is temporally mapped to the 4th July being the day of
celebration for American Independence:

A slave mentality:

- Tips for pay.
- To this day,
- So I say,
- Poverty *preys*.

- https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BzRmc7Bm7indX3p5bzVxWER6VFE

It was an undeniable refutation of the FASCIST inspiring philosopher
German Philosopher Martin Heidegger (1889-1976), I demonstrated that the
theoretic concept of a metaphysical noumenon as the basis to 'Metaphor,
Essence and Origin of Language' by the thinking of a human being--is
proven to be true.

I would then on the basis of such a cosmological fact as previously
disclosed, and it's probable basis, as the origins of the initial Hebrew
language (ie. 22 letters, base-7 chronology, rational PI and the ennead
of Thoth) then go so far as to suggest:

That had it's proof of concept as lunar/solar cycles which is asserted
by the Dead Sea Scrolls 364 day/year chronology and 6 year calendar only
discovered in 1946/1956, been known at the time of the fascist
inspiration, given by the philosopher Martin Heidegger (d. 1976), when
he advanced such notions as:

- On the Essence of Language,

- Being and Time

I don't like reading the fascist inspiring German philosopher Martin
Heidegger (26 September 1889-26 May 1976) for the same reason--but I
nevertheless can refute him.

So you cannot consider me just a self-opinionated Dutch/Frisian
narcissist who is nothing more than a bastard son of Heidegger and a
Babylonian whore (ie. promiscuous relative to being and time).

Sexual promiscuity (like that of Babylonian {incongruity; confusion;
mixture} whoredom) has an inconsequence {eg: an *oath*} of action and
words relative to being and time: 'we hold that there is no more
infallible evidence of insincerity of purpose, short of overt acts, than
a face that *smiles* when there is no occasion, and the *tongue* that is
out of measure smooth.'" [James Fenimore Cooper, The Pathfinder, 1840;
Courtesy: Word of the Day for 29 June 2016; www.dictionary.com]

That the nihilistic consequence as Jewish non-existence (which as a
Christian you imply by the denial of such a cosmological fact to the
contrary) would not have then been manifested as a holocaust of over 6
million people.

As if it wasn't shameful enough that the Jewish people could not speak
up about their own history and prior experience of annihilation by Roman
military pogrom, to which such a fact was then associated by daily
practice in the Jerusalem (King Herod's) Temple [Luke 1:5]. And of
which event in 69CE, the arch of Titus in Rome records.

The greater shame is, that your continued denial of a such a
cosmological fact, bestows upon you the consideration that Karl Barth's
denials of FASCISM by the Barmen Declaration was correct but lacked the
effectual means:

"In 1934, as the Protestant Church attempted to come to terms with the
Third Reich, Barth was largely responsible for the writing of the Barmen
declaration (Ger. Barmer Erklärung). This declaration rejected the
influence of Nazism on German Christianity by arguing that the Church's
allegiance to the God of Jesus Christ should give it the impetus and
resources to resist the influence of other lords, such as the German
Führer, Adolf Hitler. Barth mailed this declaration to Hitler
personally. This was one of the founding documents of the Confessing
Church and Barth was elected a member of its leadership council, the
Bruderrat.

He was forced to resign from his professorship at the University of Bonn
in 1935 for refusing to swear an *oath* to Hitler. Barth then returned
to his native Switzerland, where he assumed a chair in systematic
theology at the University of Basel. In the course of his appointment he
was required to answer a routine question asked of all Swiss civil
servants: whether he supported the national defense. His answer was,
'Yes, especially on the northern border!'

The newspaper Neue Zuercher Zeitung carried his 1936 criticism of Martin
Heidegger for his support of the Nazis.

But what answer do you have to the Nazi inspiring German Philosopher
Martin Heidegger (1889-1976) which otherwise places cautious demands
upon us: "Whether his thinking as contributions to Phenomenology and
Existentialism should be identified as part of such philosophical
movements and which can only occur with extreme care and qualification."

- Although remaining unfinished, his first and best known book: Being
and Time (1927), approached the question through an inquiry into the
being that has an understanding of Being, and asks the question about
it, namely, what is a human being?

For Heidegger thinking is about things originally discovered in our
everyday practical engagements. The consequence of this is that our
capacity to think cannot be the most central quality of our being
because thinking is reflective upon this more original way of
discovering the world. Heidegger argues that human being is even more
fundamentally structured by its Temporality, or its concern with, and
relationship to time, existing as a structurally open
"possibility-for-being."

He emphasized the importance of Authenticity in human existence,
involving a truthful relationship to our thrownness into a world which
we are "always already" concerned with, and to our Being-towards-death,
the Finitude of the time and being we are given, and the closing down of
our various possibilities for being through time.

- Heidegger made considerations on Metaphor, Essence and Origin of
Language (1939 Lectures) and his "most extensive discussions of metaphor
occur within this context, namely, a rethinking of our bodily
experience. The sensible/intelligible opposition that metaphor entails
precludes the possibility of thinking the originary openness to beings
that makes language possible in the first place.

Specifically, Heidegger’s concern is twofold: he hopes to think of (1)
language apart from the sensible/intelligible opposition and (2) the
originary openness that makes language possible. Metaphor, in his view,
implies a framework structured by the sensible/intelligible opposition,
and thus is inappropriate for a thinking of the essence of language"
[(c) May 2014 - Joel Meservy, B.A., University of Tennessee, 2009]

In 1938 he wrote a letter to a Czech colleague Josef Hromádka in which
he declared that soldiers who fought against the Third Reich were
serving a Christian cause."

Barth's unease with the dominant theology which characterized Europe led
him to become a leader in the Confessing Church in Germany, which
actively opposed Adolf Hitler and the Nazi regime. In particular, Barth
and other members of the movement vigorously attempted to prevent the
Nazis from taking over the existing church and establishing a state
church controlled by the regime. This culminated in Barth's authorship
of the Barmen Declaration, which fiercely criticized Christians who
supported the Nazis.

One of the most prolific and influential theologians of the twentieth
century, Barth emphasized the sovereignty of God." [Wikipedia 2016:
Karl_Barth]

Nous: #23
Time: 06:50 hrs
Date: 2016.7.4
Torah: #40 #5 #300 %81 = #21
Dao: Constancy of Guiding Concepts, Emptiness & Non-Existence
Tetra: #26 - Endeavor
I-Ching:H18 - Arresting Decay

Latin: Verus {God saviour} Alt: Nanael {Pray to God} {
1. HELPS TO LIVE IN PEACE WITH ALL
2. OCCULT MAGIC & THEOLOGY
3. LEARNING
4. Teut or Theuth
}
Mahalalel {Praise (fame) of God}

-
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=476109302582911&set=pcb.476110049249503

The substance of such evidence as my knowledge of God was obtained from
parsing Karl Barth's (May 10 1886-December 10 1968) quote about knowing
God with this very mathematical and rational paradigm of the *DIVINE*

mind as Godhead previously defined by me as an intellectual property.

.jackNote@zen: 3, row: 3, col: 7, nous: 23 [Date: 2016.7.4, Time: 1736
hrs, Super: #390 / #62 - Construing a Guide, Practise Reason; I-Ching:
H23 - Disintegration; Tetra: 70 - Severance, Ego: #337 / #23 - Constancy
of Guiding Concepts, Emptiness & Non-Existence; I-Ching: H18 - Arresting
Decay; Tetra: 26 - Endeavor]

THERE IS NO KNOWLEDGE OF GOD APART FROM THE WAY WHICH JESUS WALKED,

@memeBrain [Telos: #4920, Super: #43 - Absolute Negation, It's Universal
Application; I-Ching: H50 - Cauldron; Tetra: 44 - Stove, Ego: #60 -
Skill Rulership, Maintain One's Place; I-Ching: H15 - Modesty; Tetra: 5
- Keeping Small]

SUPER (MALE) IDEA: #43

#10, #2, #30, #1 = bela' (Aramaic) (H1080): 1) (Pael) to wear away, wear
out; 1a) to harass constantly (fig.);

"And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear
{bela' (Aramaic)-wear [H1080]: #43} out the saints of the most High, and
think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand
until a time and times and the dividing of time." [Daniel 7:25]

EGO (FEMALE) IDEA: #60

#30, #1, #20, #7, #2 = 'akzab (H391): 1) deceitful, treacherous,
deception, lie, deceptive, disappointing;

"Why is my pain perpetual, and my wound incurable, which refuseth to be
healed? wilt thou be altogether unto me as a liar {'akzab-liar [H391]:
#60}, and as waters that fail?" [Jeremiah 15:18]

THE WAY WHICH JESUS IS,

@memeBrain [Telos: #2566, Super: #54 - Culturing Perspectives and
Intuition; I-Ching: H55 - Abundance; Tetra: 45 - Greatness, Ego: #55 -
Abstruse Mysterious Signs; I-Ching: H22 - Grace; Tetra: 54 - Unity]

SUPER (MALE) IDEA: #97

#40, #5, #3, #1, #30, #8, #10 = megas (G3173): 1) great; 2) predicated
of rank, as belonging to; 3) splendid, prepared on a grand scale,
stately; 4) great things; 1a) of the external form or sensible
appearance of things (or of persons); 1a1) in particular, of space and
its dimensions, as respects; 1a1a) mass and weight: great; 1a1b) compass
and extent: large, spacious; 1a1c) measure and height: long; 1a1d)
stature and age: great, old; 1b) of number and quantity: numerous,
large, abundant; 1c) of age: the elder; 1d) used of intensity and its
degrees: with great effort, of the affections and emotions of the mind,
of natural events powerfully affecting the senses: violent, mighty,
strong; 2a) persons, eminent for ability, virtue, authority, power; 2b)
things esteemed highly for their importance: of great moment, of great
weight, importance; 2c) a thing to be highly esteemed for its
excellence: excellent; 4a) of God's preeminent blessings; 4b) of things
which overstep the province of a created being, proud (presumptuous)
things, full of arrogance, derogatory to the majesty of God;

"To whom they all gave heed, from the least to the greatest {megas-great
[G3173]: #97}, saying, This man is the great {megas-great [G3173]: #97}
power of God." [Acts 8:10]

EGO (FEMALE) IDEA #115

#10, #70, #30, #5 = `alah (H5927): 1) to go up, ascend, climb; 1a)
(Qal); 1a1) to go up, ascend; 1a2) to meet, visit, follow, depart,
withdraw, retreat; 1a3) to go up, come up (of animals); 1a4) to spring
up, grow, shoot forth (of vegetation); 1a5) to go up, go up over, rise
(of natural phenomenon); 1a6) to come up (before God); 1a7) to go up, go
up over, extend (of boundary); 1a8) to excel, be superior to; 1b)
(Niphal); 1b1) to be taken up, be brought up, be taken away; 1b2) to
take oneself away; 1b3) to be exalted; 1c) (Hiphil); 1c1) to bring up,
cause to ascend or climb, cause to go up; 1c2) to bring up, bring
against, take away; 1c3) to bring up, draw up, train; 1c4) to cause to
ascend; 1c5) to rouse, stir up (mentally); 1c6) to offer, bring up (of
gifts); 1c7) to exalt; 1c8) to cause to ascend, offer; 1d) (Hophal);
1d1) to be carried away, be led up; 1d2) to be taken up into, be
inserted in; 1d3) to be offered; 1e) (Hithpael) to lift oneself;

"For so it was, that the children of Israel {who prevails with God} had
sinned against the LORD their God, which had brought {`alah-come
[H5927]: #115} them up out of the land of Egypt {that troubles or
oppresses; anguish}, from under the hand of Pharaoh king of Egypt, and
had feared other gods," [2Kings 17:7]

THE WAY WHICH JESUS CALLED HIS DISCIPLES TO FOLLOW.

@memeBrain [Telos: #3923, Super: #72 - Self-Love, Holding Oneself Dear;
I-Ching: H39 - Obstacles; Tetra: 79 - Difficulties, Ego: #35 - Great
Guiding Signs?, Virtue of Benevolence; I-Ching: H17 - Allegiance; Tetra:
19 - Following]

SUPER (MALE) IDEA: #169

#50, #70, #8, #40, #1 = noema (G3540): 1) a mental perception,
thought; 2) an evil purpose; 3) that which thinks, the mind, thoughts or
purposes;

"In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds {noema-mind
[G3540]: #169} of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious
gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them."
[2Corinthians 4:4]

"Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself
against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought
{noema-mind [G3540]: #169} to the obedience of Christ;" [2Corinthians 10:5]

EGO (FEMALE) IDEA: #150

#20, #70, #60 = ka`ac (H3708): 1) anger, vexation, provocation, grief;
1a) vexation; 1a1) of men; 1a2) of God; 1b) vexation, grief, frustration;

"A fool's wrath {ka`ac-grief [H3708]: #150} is presently known: but a
prudent man covereth shame." [Proverbs 12:16]

"A foolish son is a grief {ka`ac-grief [H3708]: #150} to his father, and
bitterness to her that bare him." [Proverbs 17:25]

#5, #100, #10, #9, #5, #10, #1, #10 = eritheia (G2052): 1)

electioneering or intriguing for office; 1a) apparently, in the NT a
courting distinction, a desire to put one's self forward, a partisan and
fractious spirit which does not disdain low arts; 1b) partisanship,
fractiousness;

"But unto them that are contentious {eritheia-strife [G2052]: #150}, and
do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,"
[Romans 2:8]

"The one preach Christ of contention {eritheia-strife [G2052]: #150},
not sincerely, supposing to add affliction to my bonds:" [Philippians 1:16]

*THERE* *IS* *NO* *KNOWLEDGE* *OF* *GOD* *APART* *FROM* *THIS*
*RESPONSE* *OF* *FAITH*.

@memeBrain [Telos: #2990, Super: #76 - Strength's Warning Signs,
Revealers of Virtue; I-Ching: H20 - Contemplation; Tetra: 64 - Sinking,
Ego: #74 - Controlling Feelings, Overcome Delusion; I-Ching: H39 -
Obstacles; Tetra: 80 - Labouring]

SUPER (MALE) IDEA: #245

#1, #80, #70, #4, #5, #10, #60, #5, #10 = apodeixis (G585): 1) a making
manifest, showing forth; 2) a demonstration, proof;

"And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man's
wisdom, but in demonstration {apodeixis-demonstration [G585]: #245} of
the Spirit and of power:" [1Corinthians 2:4]

EGO (FEMALE) IDEA: #224

#20, #90, #4, #10, #100 = tsaddiyq (H6662): 1) just, lawful, righteous;
1a) just, righteous (in government); 1b) just, right (in one's cause);
1c) just, righteous (in conduct and character); 1d) righteous (as
justified and vindicated by God); 1e) right, correct, lawful;

"The lips of the righteous {tsaddiyq-righteous [H6662]: #224} feed many:
but fools die for want of wisdom." [Proverbs 10:21]

"As the whirlwind passeth, so is the wicked no more: but the righteous
{tsaddiyq-righteous [H6662]: #224} is an everlasting foundation."
[Proverbs 10:25]

Word of the Day corresponding to your Message is:

TOURBILLION (noun)
1. a whirlwind or something resembling a whirlwind.
2. a firework that rises spirally.

Origin of tourbillion
Tourbillion entered English from the French tourbillon meaning
"whirlwind." Ultimately, it can be traced to the Latin turbō meaning
"something that spins." It entered English in the mid-1400s. [Courtesy:
Word of the Day for 3rd (4th - AEST) July 2016, www.dictionary.com]

- dolf

Facebook Post: "Karl Barth on Knowledge of God" of 4 July 2016

-
https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=476110049249503&id=100005515364934

#karl-barth-for-dummies

Initial Post: 4 July, 2016

[dolf]

-- TOO GUTLESS TO EXPRESS AN OPINION ABOUT THE EVIDENCE FOR THE
EXISTENCE OF THE DIVINE ON THIS 4TH JULY 2016

SUBJECT WAS:

DISTRIBUTION:

- alt.atheism
- alt.christnet.christianlife
- aus.media-watch
- alt.dear.whitehouse
- sup...@fairpoint.net
- ab...@giganews.com

ACTION SOUGHT: *IMMEDIATE* *ACCOUNT* *CLOSURE* *AND* *PERMANENT* *BAN*
*FROM* *THE* *INTERNET*

dolf: "MR CHRISTOPHER LEE has on this 4th July, 2016 (AEST) steadfastly

refused to engaged within reasonable, rational and coherent dialog and
instead resorted to his unrestrained anal-sadistic violent
'*TREASONABLE*' hate speech and Tourette Syndrome like manner: 'most
often associated with the exclamation of obscene words or socially
inappropriate and derogatory remarks (coprolalia).'"

CHRISTOPHER (ATHEIST) LEE: "You don't even know what reasonable,
rational and coherent dialog is - you spam inappropriate newsgroups with
unsolicited, multi-thousand line, question-begging nonsense and repost
it under the forged ID of those who object.

Do you seriously expect people to read beyond the first page of utterly
senseless rubbish?

Do you really not understand the difference between your nonsensical
monologues and dialog?

And do you really not understand the language used to express emphasis
and contempt for your unsolicited rudeness and stupidity?"

dolf: "He has by such acts, which are motivated entirely by a daemonic

animalistic driven human nature, continued to convey distorted realities

of a perverse, depraved, inconsequential and circumstantial morality (ie.

A) SPAMS HIS UNSOLICITED AND OFF-TOPIC NONSENSE TO A WHOLE SLEW OF GROUPS:

- I'm terraforming as anti-terrorism activity so as to make the planet
more conducive to human life;

B) THEN FORGES THOSE WHO TELL HIM WHERE TO SHOVE IT:

- I'm frogging only to tag and tarnish their often anonymous identity
(why ought mine be scat upon) to bring their misdemeanors and misconduct
to their attention by negating any kill-file mechanism.

) and as conduct expressing a manner of speech conveying unambiguous and
contemptible racialism, psycho-sexualism, vehement anti-religiosity and
fascist characterizations that are knowingly false.

He has been advised that a failure to respond to each of the questions
and evidence placed before him with an answer that is explicit,
unambiguous and with clarity, will result in a legal claim of
defamation, slander and unlawful use of telecommunications carriage
service for harassment being made against him in due course--HE IS
ACTING UNLAWFULLY.

CHRISTOPHER (ATHEIST) LEE: "WHAT F@CKING QUESTION OF WHAT F@CKING *DIVINE*?"

So I will repeat it again for you on this 4 July, 2016 (AEST) and warn
you to be careful of your conduct lest you pervert the DAY and offend
the American national ethos.

CHRISTOPHER (ATHEIST) LEE: "WHAT FUCKING EVIDENCE FOR WHAT FUCKING
EXISTENCE OF WHAT FUCKING DEITY was Adolph the psycho who spams his
unsolicited and off-topic nonsense to a whole slew of groups and then
forges those who tell him where to shove it, lying about?"

dolf: "Again you are showing by a hymenealism (ie. marriage as an

institutionalized values based religious belief, disbelief or

non-belief) an utmost contempt for the autonomy of self identity,

sovereign authority, law and order as justice.

You are engaged within foolish, defamatory conduct and vain imaginations
by preserving your egoistic self identity through making a profession of
a psychiatric disorder of others.

Where as I'm speaking entirely of a mathematical paradigm of rational
and a reasoned mind.

Q. *What* *is* *truth*? [Pilate asked Jesus of Nazareth before #34CE]

A. *Truth* is a cosmogonic consideration.

It is an argument between which 'HETEROS' v's 'HOMOIOS' as the THEORY OF
NUMBER constitutes the mind created in the image of the Creator God as
the Father (Godhead/*DIVINE* Nature as Mind) [Luke 4:5-24 (KJV); Romans
1:16-32]?

> DEITY was Adolph the psycho who spams his unsolicited and off-topic
> nonsense to a whole slew of groups and then forges those who tell him
> where to shove it, lying about?
>

> [more than three thousand lines of sheer insanity deleted]
>
> The original has been forwarded to ab...@westnet.com.au,
>

dolf: "An anonymous poster is a non-entity just like your claim of God
Almighty.

You repeatedly asked, "WHAT F@CKING QUESTION OF WHAT F@CKING *DIVINE*?"

That your concern over such a non-entity is an illogical response from
you--evidently you can't address the 3,000+ lines of evidence conveying
a unity of apperception about the existence of God Almighty."

CHRISTOPHER (ATHEIST) LEE: "The anonymous user hiding behind the nym
"dolf" is certifiably insane.

[nearly 5,000 lines of mind-numbing stupidity, deleted]"

CHRISTOPHER (ATHEIST) LEE: "WHAT F@CKING QUESTION OF WHAT F@CKING *DIVINE*?"

CHRISTOPHER (ATHEIST) LEE: "It's not our job to do your work for you.

You're supposed to know what evidence there is for something you can't
even describe, but we're not mind readers to know what you think you've got.

WHAT F@CKING QUESTION OF WHAT F@CKING *DIVINE* outside your religion?"

CHRISTOPHER (ATHEIST) LEE: "What part of SOMETHING THAT POINTS
INESCAPABLY TO THE CONCLUSION, AND CAN BE DEFENDED AS SUCH, are you
pretending you are too stupid to understand.

We have no idea what you think you've got, and you never describe your
hypothetical god in such a way that we even know what you're talking about."

So I will repeat it again for you on this 4 July, 2016 (AEST) and warn
you to be careful of your conduct lest you pervert the DAY and offend
the American national ethos.

CHRISTOPHER (ATHEIST) LEE: "WHAT F@CKING *DIVINE*, IN THE REAL WORLD
BEYOND CHRISTIAN THEOLOGY, imbecile?

You won't read this, but it was published all over the place and went
viral on the net. It describes *you*.

He won't read this, but it describes *him*...

dolf: "The substance of such evidence as courteous response to your

earnest questioning was obtained from the date of 14 February 2014 for

the publication of the report titled: 'INTERNET TROLLS REALLY ARE
HORRIBLE PEOPLE: NARCISSISTIC, MACHIAVELLIAN, PSYCHOPATHIC, AND
SADISTIC' which was produced by you using the very mathematical and

rational paradigm of the *DIVINE* mind as Godhead previously defined by
me as an intellectual property.

dolf: "Again you are showing by a hymenealism (ie. marriage as an

institutionalized values based religious belief, disbelief or

non-belief) an utmost contempt for the autonomy of self identity,

sovereign authority, law and order as justice.

#5, #100, #10, #9, #5, #10, #1, #200 - eritheia (G2052): 1)

electioneering or intriguing for office; 1a) apparently, in the NT a
courting distinction, a desire to put one's self forward, a partisan and
fractious spirit which does not disdain low arts; 1b) partisanship,
fractiousness;

dolf: "Making a reasonable supposition as a logical, probable and

hypothetical proposition, which is then predicated upon by a determined
course of affirmative action to inform oneself through inquisition as
elimination--is the process of a rational mind practiced in acquiring
knowledge and explicit specification within categories of understanding.

That in my view, punctiliousness is an intrinsic phonetic correspondence
and functional cognitive characteristic of mind. [Courtesy: Word of the
Day for 2 July 2016, www.dictionary.com]

For example, if all but the first and last letters are scrambled and the
sentence is entirely ambiguous, you can still disambiguate the word and
fully comprehend the sentence, Cambridge University researchers suggest:

"Taht in my veiw, psciiouelnunsts is an insniirtc phteinoc
conrecoednprse and fancounitl cvgiinote cartarseiichtc of mnid."

- http://douglastwitchell.com/scrambled_words.php

Confusion like fear and paranoia which steadfastly and habitually
refuses to overcome its ignorant state by informing itself, can then be
considered delusional."

RL MEASURES: "When you exceed the word limit I balk."

dolf: "Eternity Lost...

Why are you an Apologist for Nothingness -- What Godless Jewish cult do
you belong to?"

RL MEASURES: "Too long."

dolf: "Narcissist...

120 Days Of Sodom [Salo/*Sale*]?"

NOW GIVE IT YOUR BEST SHOT AT A RATIONAL AND REASONABLE RESPONSE AS THE
3,000+ LINES OF EVIDENCE WHICH YOU HAVE IGNORED IS REPEATED BELOW.

ONE LAST COMMENT:

dolf: "You are engaged within foolish, defamatory conduct and vain
imaginations by preserving your egoistic self identity through making a
profession of a psychiatric disorder of others.

Where as I'm speaking entirely of a mathematical paradigm of rational
and a reasoned mind.

Q. *What* *is* *truth*? [Pilate asked Jesus of Nazareth before #34CE]

A. *Truth* is a cosmogonic consideration.

It is an argument between which 'HETEROS' v's 'HOMOIOS' as the THEORY OF
NUMBER constitutes the mind created in the image of the Creator God as
the Father (Godhead/*DIVINE* Nature as Mind) [Luke 4:5-24 (KJV); Romans
1:16-32]?"

- dolf

----------
IN SUPPORT OF THE CLAIM TO TREASON I SUBMIT THIS POST:

- https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BzRmc7Bm7indZEZ2amJyR2tubkE

Initial Post: 4 May, 2016

----------
IN SUPPORT OF THE NATURAL, COMMON LAW RIGHT TO AUTONOMY OF SELF
IDENTITY, SOVEREIGN AUTHORITY, LAW AND ORDER AS JUSTICE I SUBMIT THIS POST:

- https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BzRmc7Bm7indX3p5bzVxWER6VFE

Initial Post: 28 June, 2016

----------

-- TOO GUTLESS TO EXPRESS AN OPINION ABOUT THE EVIDENCE FOR THE
EXISTENCE OF THE DIVINE ON THIS 4TH JULY 2016

SUBJECT WAS:

DISTRIBUTION:

- alt.atheism
- alt.christnet.christianlife
- aus.media-watch
- alt.dear.whitehouse
- sup...@fairpoint.net
- ab...@giganews.com

ACTION SOUGHT: *IMMEDIATE* *ACCOUNT* *CLOSURE* *AND* *PERMANENT* *BAN*
*FROM* *THE* *INTERNET*

dolf: "MR CHRISTOPHER LEE has on this 4th July, 2016 (AEST) steadfastly

refused to engaged within reasonable, rational and coherent dialog and
instead resorted to his unrestrained anal-sadistic violent
'*TREASONABLE*' hate speech and Tourette Syndrome like manner: 'most
often associated with the exclamation of obscene words or socially
inappropriate and derogatory remarks (coprolalia).'"

CHRISTOPHER (ATHEIST) LEE: "You don't even know what reasonable,
rational and coherent dialog is - you spam inappropriate newsgroups with
unsolicited, multi-thousand line, question-begging nonsense and repost
it under the forged ID of those who object.

Do you seriously expect people to read beyond the first page of utterly
senseless rubbish?

Do you really not understand the difference between your nonsensical
monologues and dialog?

And do you really not understand the language used to express emphasis
and contempt for your unsolicited rudeness and stupidity?"

dolf: "He has by such acts, which are motivated entirely by a daemonic

animalistic driven human nature, continued to convey distorted realities

of a perverse, depraved, inconsequential and circumstantial morality (ie.

A) SPAMS HIS UNSOLICITED AND OFF-TOPIC NONSENSE TO A WHOLE SLEW OF GROUPS:

- I'm terraforming as anti-terrorism activity so as to make the planet
more conducive to human life;

B) THEN FORGES THOSE WHO TELL HIM WHERE TO SHOVE IT:

- I'm frogging only to tag and tarnish their often anonymous identity
(why ought mine be scat upon) to bring their misdemeanors and misconduct
to their attention by negating any kill-file mechanism.

) and as conduct expressing a manner of speech conveying unambiguous and
contemptible racialism, psycho-sexualism, vehement anti-religiosity and
fascist characterizations that are knowingly false.

He has been advised that a failure to respond to each of the questions
and evidence placed before him with an answer that is explicit,
unambiguous and with clarity, will result in a legal claim of
defamation, slander and unlawful use of telecommunications carriage
service for harassment being made against him in due course--HE IS
ACTING UNLAWFULLY.

CHRISTOPHER (ATHEIST) LEE: "WHAT F@CKING QUESTION OF WHAT F@CKING *DIVINE*?"

So I will repeat it again for you on this 4 July, 2016 (AEST) and warn
you to be careful of your conduct lest you pervert the DAY and offend
the American national ethos.

CHRISTOPHER (ATHEIST) LEE: "WHAT FUCKING EVIDENCE FOR WHAT FUCKING
EXISTENCE OF WHAT FUCKING DEITY was Adolph the psycho who spams his
unsolicited and off-topic nonsense to a whole slew of groups and then
forges those who tell him where to shove it, lying about?"

dolf: "Again you are showing by a hymenealism (ie. marriage as an

institutionalized values based religious belief, disbelief or

non-belief) an utmost contempt for the autonomy of self identity,

sovereign authority, law and order as justice.

You are engaged within foolish, defamatory conduct and vain imaginations
by preserving your egoistic self identity through making a profession of
a psychiatric disorder of others.

Where as I'm speaking entirely of a mathematical paradigm of rational
and a reasoned mind.

Q. *What* *is* *truth*? [Pilate asked Jesus of Nazareth before #34CE]

A. *Truth* is a cosmogonic consideration.

It is an argument between which 'HETEROS' v's 'HOMOIOS' as the THEORY OF
NUMBER constitutes the mind created in the image of the Creator God as
the Father (Godhead/*DIVINE* Nature as Mind) [Luke 4:5-24 (KJV); Romans
1:16-32]?

> DEITY was Adolph the psycho who spams his unsolicited and off-topic
> nonsense to a whole slew of groups and then forges those who tell him
> where to shove it, lying about?
>

> [more than three thousand lines of sheer insanity deleted]
>
> The original has been forwarded to ab...@westnet.com.au,
>

dolf: "An anonymous poster is a non-entity just like your claim of God
Almighty.

You repeatedly asked, "WHAT F@CKING QUESTION OF WHAT F@CKING *DIVINE*?"

That your concern over such a non-entity is an illogical response from
you--evidently you can't address the 3,000+ lines of evidence conveying
a unity of apperception about the existence of God Almighty."

CHRISTOPHER (ATHEIST) LEE: "The anonymous user hiding behind the nym
"dolf" is certifiably insane.

[nearly 5,000 lines of mind-numbing stupidity, deleted]"

CHRISTOPHER (ATHEIST) LEE: "WHAT F@CKING QUESTION OF WHAT F@CKING *DIVINE*?"

CHRISTOPHER (ATHEIST) LEE: "It's not our job to do your work for you.

You're supposed to know what evidence there is for something you can't
even describe, but we're not mind readers to know what you think you've got.

WHAT F@CKING QUESTION OF WHAT F@CKING *DIVINE* outside your religion?"

CHRISTOPHER (ATHEIST) LEE: "What part of SOMETHING THAT POINTS
INESCAPABLY TO THE CONCLUSION, AND CAN BE DEFENDED AS SUCH, are you
pretending you are too stupid to understand.

We have no idea what you think you've got, and you never describe your
hypothetical god in such a way that we even know what you're talking about."

So I will repeat it again for you on this 4 July, 2016 (AEST) and warn
you to be careful of your conduct lest you pervert the DAY and offend
the American national ethos.

CHRISTOPHER (ATHEIST) LEE: "WHAT F@CKING *DIVINE*, IN THE REAL WORLD
BEYOND CHRISTIAN THEOLOGY, imbecile?

You won't read this, but it was published all over the place and went
viral on the net. It describes *you*.

He won't read this, but it describes *him*...

dolf: "The substance of such evidence as courteous response to your

earnest questioning was obtained from the date of 14 February 2014 for

the publication of the report titled: 'INTERNET TROLLS REALLY ARE
HORRIBLE PEOPLE: NARCISSISTIC, MACHIAVELLIAN, PSYCHOPATHIC, AND
SADISTIC' which was produced by you using the very mathematical and

rational paradigm of the *DIVINE* mind as Godhead previously defined by
me as an intellectual property.

dolf: "Again you are showing by a hymenealism (ie. marriage as an

institutionalized values based religious belief, disbelief or

non-belief) an utmost contempt for the autonomy of self identity,

sovereign authority, law and order as justice.

#5, #100, #10, #9, #5, #10, #1, #200 - eritheia (G2052): 1)

electioneering or intriguing for office; 1a) apparently, in the NT a
courting distinction, a desire to put one's self forward, a partisan and
fractious spirit which does not disdain low arts; 1b) partisanship,
fractiousness;

dolf: "Making a reasonable supposition as a logical, probable and

hypothetical proposition, which is then predicated upon by a determined
course of affirmative action to inform oneself through inquisition as
elimination--is the process of a rational mind practiced in acquiring
knowledge and explicit specification within categories of understanding.

That in my view, punctiliousness is an intrinsic phonetic correspondence
and functional cognitive characteristic of mind. [Courtesy: Word of the
Day for 2 July 2016, www.dictionary.com]

For example, if all but the first and last letters are scrambled and the
sentence is entirely ambiguous, you can still disambiguate the word and
fully comprehend the sentence, Cambridge University researchers suggest:

"Taht in my veiw, psciiouelnunsts is an insniirtc phteinoc
conrecoednprse and fancounitl cvgiinote cartarseiichtc of mnid."

- http://douglastwitchell.com/scrambled_words.php

Confusion like fear and paranoia which steadfastly and habitually
refuses to overcome its ignorant state by informing itself, can then be
considered delusional."

RL MEASURES: "When you exceed the word limit I balk."

dolf: "Eternity Lost...

Why are you an Apologist for Nothingness -- What Godless Jewish cult do
you belong to?"

RL MEASURES: "Too long."

dolf: "Narcissist...

120 Days Of Sodom [Salo/*Sale*]?"

NOW GIVE IT YOUR BEST SHOT AT A RATIONAL AND REASONABLE RESPONSE AS THE
3,000+ LINES OF EVIDENCE WHICH YOU HAVE IGNORED IS REPEATED BELOW.

ONE LAST COMMENT:

dolf: "You are engaged within foolish, defamatory conduct and vain
imaginations by preserving your egoistic self identity through making a
profession of a psychiatric disorder of others.

Where as I'm speaking entirely of a mathematical paradigm of rational
and a reasoned mind.

Q. *What* *is* *truth*? [Pilate asked Jesus of Nazareth before #34CE]

A. *Truth* is a cosmogonic consideration.

It is an argument between which 'HETEROS' v's 'HOMOIOS' as the THEORY OF
NUMBER constitutes the mind created in the image of the Creator God as
the Father (Godhead/*DIVINE* Nature as Mind) [Luke 4:5-24 (KJV); Romans
1:16-32]?"

[dolf]

-- Karl Barth on Knowledge of God

(c) 2016 Dolf Leendert Boek, Revision: 4 July, 2016

For all his Wisdom, Karl Barth is proven incorrect within this statement:

"There is no knowledge of God apart from the way which Jesus walked, the
way which Jesus is, the way which Jesus called his disciples to follow.
There is no knowledge of God apart from this response of faith." [Karl
Barth CD II/1, 29]

[*CONTINUALLY* *CENSORED* *FROM* *THIS* *GROUP'S* *FACEBOOK* *TIMELINE*
*VISIBILITY* *SO* *DRAW* *YOUR* *OWN* *CONCLUSIONS*]

- https://www.facebook.com/Karl-Barth-for-Dummies-178609685499598

Q. *What* *is* *truth* [Pilate asked Jesus of Nazareth before #34CE]
that you need to hide it?

A. *Truth* is a cosmogonic consideration.

If language then has a cosmological basis (ie. rational PI), as an
Anthropic Principle which was known from antiquity, then language isn't
just a metaphorical derivation, but it also has an absolute epistemology
(from Greek ἐπιστήμη, epistēmē meaning 'knowledge', and λόγος, logos,
meaning 'word') as the branch of philosophy concerned with the theory of
knowledge:

"And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.

And God saw the light, that it was good: and God *divided* the light

from the darkness. And God called the light Day, and the darkness he
called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day."
[Genesis 1:3-5 (KJV)]

I have previously said, that the motto of the British Monarchy and our
Justice System is DIEU ET MON DROIT (ie. GOD AND MY RIGHT) and this
totality of a "Sovereign and Autonomous Right" as the "Power to Rule"
and "Dispense Justice" by "Edict as a *DIVINE* Authority", can be
understood in God (Godhead/*DIVINE* Nature as Mind) being defined by:

- "I am Alpha (ie. of Hebrew origin; the first letter of the alphabet)
and Omega (ie. last letter of the Greek alphabet)" [Revelation 1:8, 11;
21:6, 13],
- "The first-PRŌTOS and the last-ESCHATOS" [Revelation 1:11; 22:13];
- "The beginning-ARCHE and the ending-TELOS" [Revelation 1:8; 21:6; 22:13].

-
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=476109865916188&set=pcb.476110049249503

'For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any
two-edged sword, piercing even to the *dividing* asunder of soul and
spirit, and of the joints of the marrow, and is a discerner of the
thoughts and intentions of the intents of the heart' [Hebrews 4:12]

The great thing about this Intellectual Property of MINE as a legal
argument: (Dieu et mon droit) is that this technology for "Judging,
Weighing and Integrity of Words" is not only embedded within the Bible

as Scriptures and given assent to through an *oath*, swearing by

Almighty God, but is compatible with the regime of numbered and natural
jurisprudence (ie. the Categories of Understanding as #729 appraisals
within the GRAPPLE HOMOIOTIC NOUMENON as a theoretical and metaphysical
conception of the Godhead/Divine Nature as Mind, in being a reasonable
consideration, then ought to equate with the numbered paragraphs) as
being a mandatory prerequisite for the presenting of any legal case
before a court of law.

So there ought not to be then any instance of perverse Justice.

Making a reasonable supposition as a logical, probable and hypothetical
proposition, which is then predicated upon by a determined course of
affirmative action to inform oneself through inquisition as
elimination--is the process of a rational mind practiced in acquiring
knowledge and explicit specification within categories of understanding.

That in my view, punctiliousness is an intrinsic phonetic correspondence
and functional cognitive characteristic of mind. [Courtesy: Word of the
Day for 2 July 2016, www.dictionary.com]

For example, if all but the first and last letters are scrambled and the
sentence is entirely ambiguous, you can still disambiguate the word and
fully comprehend the sentence, Cambridge University researchers suggest:

"Taht in my veiw, psciiouelnunsts is an insniirtc phteinoc
conrecoednprse and fancounitl cvgiinote cartarseiichtc of mnid."

- http://douglastwitchell.com/scrambled_words.php

Confusion like fear and paranoia which steadfastly and habitually
refuses to overcome its ignorant state by informing itself, can then be
considered delusional.

It is an argument between which 'HETEROS' v's 'HOMOIOS' as the THEORY OF
NUMBER constitutes the mind created in the image of the Creator God as
the Father (Godhead/*DIVINE* Nature as Mind) [Luke 4:5-24 (KJV); Romans
1:16-32]?"

I am showing you by this hymenealism (ie. marriage as an

institutionalized values based religious belief, disbelief or

non-belief) the cause of an utmost contempt for the autonomy of self

identity, sovereign authority, law and order as justice.

Satan's temptation against Jesus {He is saved/A savior; a deliverer} of
Nazareth {Sovereign; one chosen or set apart; separated; crowned;
sanctified} within the wilderness is made against the Sovereignty of
Roman Empire Governance:

a) Showed unto him all the KINGDOMS (BASILEIA) of the WORLD (OIKOUMENĒ);

b) Said unto him, 'All this power (EXOUSIA) will I give thee";

Jesus Christ's wilderness temptation was a refusal of this Satanic
prerogative (ie. as a dependency on the Pythagorean HETEROS Theory of
Number and its reliance upon the progression of #15CE ... #34CE ...
#65CE ... #2000CE < --- Holy Catholic 'Satanic' Tradition et al as

faux-sophistic wisdom) in deference for a HOMOIOS regard to the Creator

God as the Father (Godhead/*DIVINE* Nature as Mind) [Luke 4:5-24 (KJV);

parsing Karl Barth's (10 May 1886-10 December 1968) quote about knowing
God with this very mathematical and rational paradigm of the *DIVINE*

mind as Godhead previously defined by me as an intellectual property.

.jackNote@zen: 3, row: 3, col: 7, nous: 23 [Date: 2016.7.4, Time: 1736
hrs, Super: #390 / #62 - Construing a Guide, Practise Reason; I-Ching:
H23 - Disintegration; Tetra: 70 - Severance, Ego: #337 / #23 - Constancy
of Guiding Concepts, Emptiness & Non-Existence; I-Ching: H18 - Arresting
Decay; Tetra: 26 - Endeavor]

THERE IS NO KNOWLEDGE OF GOD APART FROM THE WAY WHICH JESUS WALKED,

@memeBrain [Telos: #4920, Super: #43 - Absolute Negation, It's Universal
Application; I-Ching: H50 - Cauldron; Tetra: 44 - Stove, Ego: #60 -
Skill Rulership, Maintain One's Place; I-Ching: H15 - Modesty; Tetra: 5
- Keeping Small]

SUPER (MALE) IDEA: #43

#10, #2, #30, #1 = bela' (Aramaic) (H1080): 1) (Pael) to wear away, wear
out; 1a) to harass constantly (fig.);

"And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear
{bela' (Aramaic)-wear [H1080]: #43} out the saints of the most High, and
think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand

until a time and times and the *dividing* of time." [Daniel 7:25]

EGO (FEMALE) IDEA: #60

#30, #1, #20, #7, #2 = 'akzab (H391): 1) deceitful, treacherous,
deception, lie, deceptive, disappointing;

"Why is my pain perpetual, and my wound incurable, which refuseth to be
healed?

Wilt thou be altogether unto me as a liar {'akzab-liar [H391]: #60}, and

as waters that fail?" [Jeremiah 15:18]

THE WAY WHICH JESUS IS,

@memeBrain [Telos: #2566, Super: #54 - Culturing Perspectives and
Intuition; I-Ching: H55 - Abundance; Tetra: 45 - Greatness, Ego: #55 -
Abstruse Mysterious Signs; I-Ching: H22 - Grace; Tetra: 54 - Unity]

SUPER (MALE) IDEA: #97

#40, #5, #3, #1, #30, #8, #10 = megas (G3173): 1) great; 2) predicated
of rank, as belonging to; 3) splendid, prepared on a grand scale,
stately; 4) great things; 1a) of the external form or sensible
appearance of things (or of persons); 1a1) in particular, of space and
its dimensions, as respects; 1a1a) mass and weight: great; 1a1b) compass
and extent: large, spacious; 1a1c) measure and height: long; 1a1d)
stature and age: great, old; 1b) of number and quantity: numerous,
large, abundant; 1c) of age: the elder; 1d) used of intensity and its
degrees: with great effort, of the affections and emotions of the mind,
of natural events powerfully affecting the senses: violent, mighty,
strong; 2a) persons, eminent for ability, virtue, authority, power; 2b)
things esteemed highly for their importance: of great moment, of great
weight, importance; 2c) a thing to be highly esteemed for its
excellence: excellent; 4a) of God's preeminent blessings; 4b) of things
which overstep the province of a created being, proud (presumptuous)
things, full of arrogance, derogatory to the majesty of God;

"To whom they all gave heed, from the least to the greatest {megas-great
[G3173]: #97}, saying, 'This man is the great {megas-great [G3173]: #97}

POWER (DUNAMIS: force [literally or figuratively]; specifically
miraculous power [usually by implication a miracle itself]:--ability,
abundance, meaning, mighty deed, worker of miracles, power, strength,
violence, mighty wonderful work) of God.'" [Acts 8:10]

EGO (FEMALE) IDEA #115

#10, #70, #30, #5 = `alah (H5927): 1) to go up, ascend, climb; 1a)
(Qal); 1a1) to go up, ascend; 1a2) to meet, visit, follow, depart,
withdraw, retreat; 1a3) to go up, come up (of animals); 1a4) to spring
up, grow, shoot forth (of vegetation); 1a5) to go up, go up over, rise
(of natural phenomenon); 1a6) to come up (before God); 1a7) to go up, go
up over, extend (of boundary); 1a8) to excel, be superior to; 1b)
(Niphal); 1b1) to be taken up, be brought up, be taken away; 1b2) to
take oneself away; 1b3) to be exalted; 1c) (Hiphil); 1c1) to bring up,
cause to ascend or climb, cause to go up; 1c2) to bring up, bring
against, take away; 1c3) to bring up, draw up, train; 1c4) to cause to
ascend; 1c5) to rouse, stir up (mentally); 1c6) to offer, bring up (of
gifts); 1c7) to exalt; 1c8) to cause to ascend, offer; 1d) (Hophal);
1d1) to be carried away, be led up; 1d2) to be taken up into, be
inserted in; 1d3) to be offered; 1e) (Hithpael) to lift oneself;

"For so it was, that the children of Israel {who prevails with God} had
sinned against the LORD their God, which had brought {`alah-come
[H5927]: #115} them up out of the land of Egypt {that troubles or

oppresses; anguish}, from under the hand of Pharaoh {that disperses;
that spoils} king of Egypt, and had feared other gods," [2Kings 17:7]

THE WAY WHICH JESUS CALLED HIS DISCIPLES TO FOLLOW.

@memeBrain [Telos: #3923, Super: #72 - Self-Love, Holding Oneself Dear;
I-Ching: H39 - Obstacles; Tetra: 79 - Difficulties, Ego: #35 - Great
Guiding Signs?, Virtue of Benevolence; I-Ching: H17 - Allegiance; Tetra:
19 - Following]

SUPER (MALE) IDEA: #169

#50, #70, #8, #40, #1 = noema (G3540): 1) a mental perception,
thought; 2) an evil purpose; 3) that which thinks, the mind, thoughts or
purposes;

"In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds {noema-mind
[G3540]: #169} of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious
gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them."
[2Corinthians 4:4]

"Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself
against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought
{noema-mind [G3540]: #169} to the obedience of Christ;" [2Corinthians 10:5]

EGO (FEMALE) IDEA: #150

#20, #70, #60 = ka`ac (H3708): 1) anger, vexation, provocation, grief;
1a) vexation; 1a1) of men; 1a2) of God; 1b) vexation, grief, frustration;

"A fool's wrath {ka`ac-grief [H3708]: #150} is presently known: but a
prudent man covereth shame." [Proverbs 12:16]

"A foolish son is a grief {ka`ac-grief [H3708]: #150} to his father, and
bitterness to her that bare him." [Proverbs 17:25]

#5, #100, #10, #9, #5, #10, #1, #10 = eritheia (G2052): 1)

electioneering or intriguing for office; 1a) apparently, in the NT a
courting distinction, a desire to put one's self forward, a partisan and
fractious spirit which does not disdain low arts; 1b) partisanship,
fractiousness;

"But unto them that are contentious {eritheia-strife [G2052]: #150}, and
do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,"
[Romans 2:8]

"The one preach Christ of contention {eritheia-strife [G2052]: #150},
not sincerely, supposing to add affliction to my bonds:" [Philippians 1:16]

*THERE* *IS* *NO* *KNOWLEDGE* *OF* *GOD* *APART* *FROM* *THIS*
*RESPONSE* *OF* *FAITH*.

@memeBrain [Telos: #2990, Super: #76 - Strength's Warning Signs,
Revealers of Virtue; I-Ching: H20 - Contemplation; Tetra: 64 - Sinking,
Ego: #74 - Controlling Feelings, Overcome Delusion; I-Ching: H39 -
Obstacles; Tetra: 80 - Labouring]

SUPER (MALE) IDEA: #245

#1, #80, #70, #4, #5, #10, #60, #5, #10 = apodeixis (G585): 1) a making
manifest, showing forth; 2) a demonstration, proof;

"And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man's
wisdom, but in demonstration {apodeixis-demonstration [G585]: #245} of

the Spirit and of POWER (DUNAMIS: force [literally or figuratively];
specifically miraculous power [usually by implication a miracle
itself]:--ability, abundance, meaning, mighty deed, worker of miracles,
power, strength, violence, mighty wonderful work):" [1 Corinthians 2:4]

EGO (FEMALE) IDEA: #224

#20, #90, #4, #10, #100 = tsaddiyq (H6662): 1) just, lawful, righteous;
1a) just, righteous (in government); 1b) just, right (in one's cause);
1c) just, righteous (in conduct and character); 1d) righteous (as
justified and vindicated by God); 1e) right, correct, lawful;

"The lips of the righteous {tsaddiyq-righteous [H6662]: #224} feed many:
but fools die for want of wisdom." [Proverbs 10:21]

"As the whirlwind passeth, so is the wicked no more: but the righteous
{tsaddiyq-righteous [H6662]: #224} is an everlasting foundation."
[Proverbs 10:25]

Word of the Day corresponding to the time of your
#karl-barth-for-dummies Facebook post is:

TOURBILLION (noun)
1. a whirlwind or something resembling a whirlwind.
2. a firework that rises spirally.

Origin of TOURBILLION

Tourbillion entered English from the French tourbillon meaning
'whirlwind.' Ultimately, it can be traced to the Latin turbō meaning

'something that spins.' It entered English in the mid-1400s. [Courtesy:

Word of the Day for 3rd (4th - AEST) July 2016, www.dictionary.com]

- dolf

Facebook Post "Karl Barth on Knowledge of God" of 4 July, 2016

-
https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=476110049249503&id=100005515364934

Initial Post: 4 July, 2016

[Gordon]

On Mon, 04 Jul 2016 14:55:58 +1000, Lucifer Morningstar

The Sabbath that God identified when he provided the Children of
Israel manna from heaven for six days then withheld it on His Sabbath.
That specific day of the week has not been lost or confused down
through the ages. It is still acknowledged as the day our modern
calendars show as Friday sundown through Saturday sundown.

>
>>>Personally, I have never seen any evidence for a God that resembles the
>>>Christian. Judaic, or Islamic portrayal of God.
>>>
>>The thing we must deal with here is that those ancient scribes wrote
>>the information down in a form that the people of those times could
>>interpret and tell to other tribal members on down through the
>>generations. In order for us to grasp the meaning we have to set aside
>>our modern scientific/cultural thinking and go at it the way those
>>people did. Allegories, parables, similes, etc. were best way they
>>could handle this.
>
>So they used "God" as a parable for pure evil?
>

Being illiterate and completely uneducated, scientifically, the only
way they could transfer information from tribe to tribe, down through
the generations was by using parables, etc. Had God given them this
information in a modern scientific vernacular they could not have
grasped any of the information.

>
>>>I am the doubting Thomas that believes in what evidence I find extremely
>>>credible. When it comes to religion, I am not willing to believe what
>>>someone else is telling me. I know that they don't know any more than I
>>>do. I cannot accept the writings from the people who wrote the current
>>>version of the Christian Bible or by Mohamed.
>>>
>>Mohamed was a firm Christian. It wasn't until Abu Bakr and his cronies
>>decided to modify Mohamed's teachings and try to keep the Arabs from
>>becoming bonded with and controlled by the Western Roman Empire. They
>>killed Muhammad and blamed this killing on a defenseless Jewess, then
>>modified Muhammad's teachings such that their people and their mode of
>>worship could never become a subservient colony.
>>
>>They denied that Jesus was God incarnate and claimed that he wasn't
>>crucified then raised from the dead but had a likeness crucified in
>>his place. This would make Jesus a liar and a deceiver, but they
>>regard him as a major prophet, second only to their revised version of
>>Muhammad.
>
>Where was your magical God while all that was happening?
>

God was allowing Lucifer/Satan to run his agenda, and also God was
allowing humans to go along for the learning process that was to
mature us to a level of understanding that would make it safe for God
to promote us to immortality and absolute sovereignty, without the
risk that any of us would fall away from God as Lucifer/Satan and the
fallen angels did. Gordon

>
>>>I have experienced events that are direct evidence for the survival of
>>>our personality/mind after death. I have seen direct evidence for
>>>reincarnation. I do take on faith what my wife tells me. I do so because
>>>she has a very long track record of being extremely accurate in her
>>>statements to me. I cannot extend that faith to preachers, priests, or
>>>long dead people. I do not know them well enough. I do know that most of
>>>them have had influences that could well inspire them to make up stuff.
>>>
>>I also have experienced such events. The first came when I was about
>>12 years old. It was a feeling of some level of communication beyond
>>the here and now and I felt really elevated, spiritually.
>
>schizophrenia.
>

Not at all! My here and now thinking was always very stable and
rational. But, I did "feel" the influence of the Holy Spirit as I was
led on in my understanding of God and His program. Gordon

>
>>>It is however clear to me that my level of intelligence is very puny
>>>when compared to what it would take to understand the extremely complex
>>>universe in which we abide.
>>>
>>None of us, or all of us collectively are intelligent enough to
>>understand these things to the extent that God understands them. We
>>simply must rely upon faith and trust in the Lord.
>
>How long have you believed yourself to be Lord?
>

I have never believed myself to be anything other than a mortal human,
but I do hope to move on to the next level of existence when this
mortal life ends. And, I do hope I can be among those who are great in
the Kingdom of Heaven.

Matthew 5:19 (KJV) Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least
commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in
the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same
shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

I see no reason to restrict my responses. There may be some reading
these posts who want information such as I post. And, anyone who finds
my posts irritating can put me in their kill file. Gordon

[Gordon]

>?
It's called introspective thinking. But, anyone who refuses to think
about anything that hasn't been "proven" will never make it into this
realm. Gordon

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This article is about the psychological process. For other uses, see
Introspection (disambiguation).

Introspection is the examination of one's own conscious thoughts and
feelings.[1] In psychology the process of introspection relies
exclusively on observation of one's mental state, while in a spiritual
context it may refer to the examination of one's soul. Introspection
is closely related to human self-reflection and is contrasted with
external observation.

Introspection generally provides a privileged access to our own mental
states,[2] not mediated by other sources of knowledge, so that
individual experience of the mind is unique. Introspection can
determine any number of mental states including: sensory, bodily,
cognitive, emotional and so forth.[3]

Introspection has been a subject of philosophical discussion for
thousands of years. The philosopher Plato asked, "…why should we not
calmly and patiently review our own thoughts, and thoroughly examine
and see what these appearances in us really are?"[4][5] While
introspection is applicable to many facets of philosophical thought it
is perhaps best known for its role in epistemology, in this context
introspection is often compared with perception, reason, memory, and
testimony as a source of knowledge.[6]

[Gordon]

This is a theory, not yet proven, absolutely. But, it does fit into
our math based frame of reckoning. Gordon

[Lucifer Morningstar]

On Mon, 04 Jul 2016 08:55:27 -0500, Gordon <gord...@swbell.net>
wrote:

Could you let us know which group you are reading this on so
we can reduce the number of groups.

>On Mon, 04 Jul 2016 14:55:58 +1000, Lucifer Morningstar
><Ba...@saymyname.com> wrote:
>
>>On Sun, 03 Jul 2016 20:29:06 -0500, Gordon <gord...@swbell.net>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>On Sun, 3 Jul 2016 17:06:25 -0500, Francher <donot...@noreply.net>
>>>wrote:

>>>>Hello Gordon,
>>>>
>>>>It is Sunday and a day off for me. I wanted to comment on this thread. I
>>>>have certainly followed it.
>>>>
>>>I keep the Lord's Sabbath but I don't intend to make any moves to
>>>convince you or anyone else that this is prudent.
>>
>>Which sabbath?
>>
>The Sabbath that God identified when he provided the Children of
>Israel manna from heaven for six days then withheld it on His Sabbath.
>That specific day of the week has not been lost or confused down
>through the ages. It is still acknowledged as the day our modern
>calendars show as Friday sundown through Saturday sundown.

I'm thinking you mean through to Saturday sundown.

There is some confusion about the sabbath which is odd as
God is not the author of confusion.

>>>>Personally, I have never seen any evidence for a God that resembles the
>>>>Christian. Judaic, or Islamic portrayal of God.
>>>>
>>>The thing we must deal with here is that those ancient scribes wrote
>>>the information down in a form that the people of those times could
>>>interpret and tell to other tribal members on down through the
>>>generations. In order for us to grasp the meaning we have to set aside
>>>our modern scientific/cultural thinking and go at it the way those
>>>people did. Allegories, parables, similes, etc. were best way they
>>>could handle this.
>>
>>So they used "God" as a parable for pure evil?
>>
>Being illiterate and completely uneducated, scientifically, the only
>way they could transfer information from tribe to tribe, down through
>the generations was by using parables, etc. Had God given them this
>information in a modern scientific vernacular they could not have
>grasped any of the information.

And they would have had solid proof their religion was the
one true religion.

>>>>I am the doubting Thomas that believes in what evidence I find extremely
>>>>credible. When it comes to religion, I am not willing to believe what
>>>>someone else is telling me. I know that they don't know any more than I
>>>>do. I cannot accept the writings from the people who wrote the current
>>>>version of the Christian Bible or by Mohamed.
>>>>
>>>Mohamed was a firm Christian. It wasn't until Abu Bakr and his cronies
>>>decided to modify Mohamed's teachings and try to keep the Arabs from
>>>becoming bonded with and controlled by the Western Roman Empire. They
>>>killed Muhammad and blamed this killing on a defenseless Jewess, then
>>>modified Muhammad's teachings such that their people and their mode of
>>>worship could never become a subservient colony.
>>>
>>>They denied that Jesus was God incarnate and claimed that he wasn't
>>>crucified then raised from the dead but had a likeness crucified in
>>>his place. This would make Jesus a liar and a deceiver, but they
>>>regard him as a major prophet, second only to their revised version of
>>>Muhammad.
>>
>>Where was your magical God while all that was happening?
>>
>God was allowing Lucifer/Satan to run his agenda, and also God was
>allowing humans to go along for the learning process that was to
>mature us to a level of understanding that would make it safe for God
>to promote us to immortality and absolute sovereignty, without the
>risk that any of us would fall away from God as Lucifer/Satan and the
>fallen angels did. Gordon

So God is trying to avoid making the same mistake with us that
he made with Satan?
Shouldn't God allow Satan to go along with the same learning
process as us?

>>>>I have experienced events that are direct evidence for the survival of
>>>>our personality/mind after death. I have seen direct evidence for
>>>>reincarnation. I do take on faith what my wife tells me. I do so because
>>>>she has a very long track record of being extremely accurate in her
>>>>statements to me. I cannot extend that faith to preachers, priests, or
>>>>long dead people. I do not know them well enough. I do know that most of
>>>>them have had influences that could well inspire them to make up stuff.
>>>>
>>>I also have experienced such events. The first came when I was about
>>>12 years old. It was a feeling of some level of communication beyond
>>>the here and now and I felt really elevated, spiritually.
>>
>>schizophrenia.
>>
>Not at all! My here and now thinking was always very stable and
>rational. But, I did "feel" the influence of the Holy Spirit as I was
>led on in my understanding of God and His program. Gordon

Would you know if it was schizophrenia? Do you know when
you are dreaming? The human mammal brain is easily fooled.

>>>>It is however clear to me that my level of intelligence is very puny
>>>>when compared to what it would take to understand the extremely complex
>>>>universe in which we abide.
>>>>
>>>None of us, or all of us collectively are intelligent enough to
>>>understand these things to the extent that God understands them. We
>>>simply must rely upon faith and trust in the Lord.
>>
>>How long have you believed yourself to be Lord?
>>
>I have never believed myself to be anything other than a mortal human,
>but I do hope to move on to the next level of existence when this
>mortal life ends. And, I do hope I can be among those who are great in
>the Kingdom of Heaven.

Yet you think we should trust you.

>Matthew 5:19 (KJV) Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least
>commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in
>the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same
>shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

You must know by now the bible is meaningless.

You are right of course. I just thought there might be more
appropriate groups.

newsgroups.

[dolf]

-- Karl Barth on Knowledge of God

(c) 2016 Dolf Leendert Boek, Revision: 4 July, 2016

For all his Wisdom, Karl Barth is proven incorrect within this statement:

"There is no knowledge of God apart from the way which Jesus walked, the
way which Jesus is, the way which Jesus called his disciples to follow.
There is no knowledge of God apart from this response of faith." [Karl
Barth CD II/1, 29]

[*CONTINUALLY* *CENSORED* *BY* *THE* *ADMINISTRATOR*

Richard Keith (Minister)
Leeton Presbyterian Church
Cypress Street, Leeton, New South Wales, Australia
Mobile: 0487 520 450
Email: richard...@gmail.com
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/richard.keith.79

*AS* *REMOVAL* *FROM* *THIS* *GROUP'S* *FACEBOOK* *TIMELINE*
*VISIBILITY* *SO* *DRAW* *YOUR* *OWN* *CONCLUSIONS* *CONCERNING* *TREASON*]

- https://www.facebook.com/Karl-Barth-for-Dummies-178609685499598

dolf: "Are you this individual?

I just wish to confirm your details before corresponding with you
further..."

RICHARD (MINISTER) KEITH: "Yes.

Although I prefer to be called a person rather than an individual."

dolf: "Could you explain to me why you continued to remove the
visibility of my guest post from your #karl-barth-for-dummies Facebook
page?

And give sufficient explanation for why you ought not to be publicly
held accountable as FASCIST and pursued in a court of law for TREASON
which is well within my means?

I've publicised your actions worldwide and I await your reasoned
explanation. And placed the above notice on the Facebook post which I
have made.

If you object to it, then I'd be pleased to hear from you as to why.

To aus.religion.judaism I made the following response:

Just look at the dammed zombie on the Facebook 'Karl Barth for Dummies'
page.

That is barf-vomit for you.

Wickedness is what wickedness does."

KEITH (MINISTER) RICHARD: "God is he whom we may love above all things.
[Karl Barth CD II/1, 32]

Our love for God and our obedience to him is not true love or true
obedience unless it is free, an exercise of permission, a liberation, an
authorization." [Karl Barth CD II/1, 33]

dolf: "LIARS.

Karl Barth would be turning within his grave at their perverse and
depraved denial of truth by hiding my guest post from visibility on
their timeline."

RICHARD (MINISTER) KEITH: "Do you even English?"

dolf: "Language is intrinsic to one's inner being and happens to reflect
experience as the journey of life and is often shaped by common
association, phoneme and memetic exchange within one's social context.

To say nothing of the ethereal attribution one acquires as an element of
character when one is practised in maintaining a connectedness between
one's spoken words and their concord within action."

[Gordon]

On Tue, 05 Jul 2016 06:21:49 +1000, Lucifer Morningstar
<Ba...@saymyname.com> wrote:

>On Mon, 04 Jul 2016 08:55:27 -0500, Gordon <gord...@swbell.net>
>wrote:
>
>Could you let us know which group you are reading this on so
>we can reduce the number of groups.
>

I have been reading this on alt.support.diabetes and I too would like
to see it trimmed down to only the groups that this subject is
appropriate upon. I would prefer alt.religion.christian if this is
okay with you. Gordon

>
>>On Mon, 04 Jul 2016 14:55:58 +1000, Lucifer Morningstar
>><Ba...@saymyname.com> wrote:
>>
>>>On Sun, 03 Jul 2016 20:29:06 -0500, Gordon <gord...@swbell.net>
>>>wrote:
>>>
>>>>On Sun, 3 Jul 2016 17:06:25 -0500, Francher <donot...@noreply.net>
>>>>wrote:
>
>>>>>Hello Gordon,
>>>>>
>>>>>It is Sunday and a day off for me. I wanted to comment on this thread. I
>>>>>have certainly followed it.
>>>>>
>>>>I keep the Lord's Sabbath but I don't intend to make any moves to
>>>>convince you or anyone else that this is prudent.
>>>
>>>Which sabbath?
>>>
>>The Sabbath that God identified when he provided the Children of
>>Israel manna from heaven for six days then withheld it on His Sabbath.
>>That specific day of the week has not been lost or confused down
>>through the ages. It is still acknowledged as the day our modern
>>calendars show as Friday sundown through Saturday sundown.
>
>I'm thinking you mean through to Saturday sundown.
>

That is what I said...Friday sundown through Saturday sundown.

>
>There is some confusion about the sabbath which is odd as
>God is not the author of confusion.
>

The confusion lies outside the Jewish culture. I know of no Jews who
keep any other day as Sabbath. I am NOT a Jew but I do think they have
a lot of God's information correct.

>
>>>>>Personally, I have never seen any evidence for a God that resembles the
>>>>>Christian. Judaic, or Islamic portrayal of God.
>>>>>
>>>>The thing we must deal with here is that those ancient scribes wrote
>>>>the information down in a form that the people of those times could
>>>>interpret and tell to other tribal members on down through the
>>>>generations. In order for us to grasp the meaning we have to set aside
>>>>our modern scientific/cultural thinking and go at it the way those
>>>>people did. Allegories, parables, similes, etc. were best way they
>>>>could handle this.
>>>
>>>So they used "God" as a parable for pure evil?
>>>
>>Being illiterate and completely uneducated, scientifically, the only
>>way they could transfer information from tribe to tribe, down through
>>the generations was by using parables, etc. Had God given them this
>>information in a modern scientific vernacular they could not have
>>grasped any of the information.
>
>And they would have had solid proof their religion was the
>one true religion.
>

This would trip up the fundamental idea that we each must make our
sovereign choice. If there were NO reasons for anyone to balk and turn
away from God it would not be a sovereign choice.

God didn't make a mistake with Satan. God knew in advance how this
would go and He set things up such that Satan and the fallen angels
could explore all the vagaries of sin and rebellion and by doing so
provide a solid learning process for all of us. Had we not had this
learning process many of us would fall away just as Lucifer/Satan fell
away from God.

>
>>>>>I have experienced events that are direct evidence for the survival of
>>>>>our personality/mind after death. I have seen direct evidence for
>>>>>reincarnation. I do take on faith what my wife tells me. I do so because
>>>>>she has a very long track record of being extremely accurate in her
>>>>>statements to me. I cannot extend that faith to preachers, priests, or
>>>>>long dead people. I do not know them well enough. I do know that most of
>>>>>them have had influences that could well inspire them to make up stuff.
>>>>>
>>>>I also have experienced such events. The first came when I was about
>>>>12 years old. It was a feeling of some level of communication beyond
>>>>the here and now and I felt really elevated, spiritually.
>>>
>>>schizophrenia.
>>>
>>Not at all! My here and now thinking was always very stable and
>>rational. But, I did "feel" the influence of the Holy Spirit as I was
>>led on in my understanding of God and His program. Gordon
>
>Would you know if it was schizophrenia? Do you know when
>you are dreaming? The human mammal brain is easily fooled.
>

Yes, I know it is not schizophrenia. I have worked in the medical
community for years and I am sure this would have come to someone's
attention had I exhibited any of the symptoms of schizophrenia.

>
>>>>>It is however clear to me that my level of intelligence is very puny
>>>>>when compared to what it would take to understand the extremely complex
>>>>>universe in which we abide.
>>>>>
>>>>None of us, or all of us collectively are intelligent enough to
>>>>understand these things to the extent that God understands them. We
>>>>simply must rely upon faith and trust in the Lord.
>>>
>>>How long have you believed yourself to be Lord?
>>>
>>I have never believed myself to be anything other than a mortal human,
>>but I do hope to move on to the next level of existence when this
>>mortal life ends. And, I do hope I can be among those who are great in
>>the Kingdom of Heaven.
>
>Yet you think we should trust you.
>

Nope, I merely think you or some others might want to go over my
thinking on these matters and do some serious, deep level studying to
see if the ideas fit in with the Word of God.

>
>>Matthew 5:19 (KJV) Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least
>>commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in
>>the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same
>>shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
>
>You must know by now the bible is meaningless.
>

Only to those who decline to take it seriously.

I have no objection to posting to any group that has some there who
want to review things like I post.

[dolf]

[dolf]

-- Karl Barth on Knowledge of God

(c) 2016 Dolf Leendert Boek, Revision: 5 July, 2016

million people:

A new documentary 'A German Life,' will tell the story of one of the
last, naive, living remnants of the Nazi regime, will be screened at the
Jerusalem Film Festival this Saturday and Sunday:

"I don't see myself as guilty, unless you blame all Germans for enabling
this government to come to power," she concluded.

Then she added, 'There's no justice; there's no God. But it's clear that
Satan exists.'

At age 105, Brunhilde Pomsel is one of the last living remnants of the
Nazi regime. From 1942-45, the height of the Holocaust, she served as
stenographer to the Nazis' minister of propaganda, Joseph Goebbels. Yet
despite her proximity to the Nazi leadership, she says she never heard a
word about the Final Solution.

She recalled Goebbels as a 'gentleman, elegant and noble,' but also an
'actor' who could take off his 'cultured, serious' mask and go crazy.

In 1945, Pomsel accompanied her boss into a bunker in Berlin.

Goebbels and his wife eventually murdered their six children and then
committed suicide. At that point, she felt like 'an animal being led to
slaughter.

We had no more leadership. We were lost souls.'" [0744 hours (AEST) 5
July, 2016, Goebbels' Haaretz, Ofer Aderet, Stenographer Says She Knew
Nothing About Holocaust]

- http://www.haaretz.com/jewish/features/.premium-1.728932

Facebook Post "Karl Barth on Knowledge of God" of 4-5 July, 2016

-
https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=476110049249503&id=100005515364934

A FREE HISTORICAL SOUVENIR COPY OF THIS 4TH JULY 2016 EDITION, IS
AVAILABLE AS PDF DOWNLOAD AT THIS URL:

- https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BzRmc7Bm7indX3p5bzVxWER6VFE

SEE ALSO: "I WARNED THEM OF AN IMPENDING CURSE OVER UNREMORSEFUL
CATHOLIC ANTI-SEMITISM" [Part 1] of 28 June - 4 July, 2016

-
https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=475980945929080&id=100005515364934

"I WARNED THEM OF AN IMPENDING CURSE OVER UNREMORSEFUL CATHOLIC
ANTI-SEMITISM" [Part 2] of 28 June - 4 July, 2016

-
https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=475372499323258&id=100005515364934

"I WARNED THEM OF AN IMPENDING CURSE OVER UNREMORSEFUL CATHOLIC
ANTI-SEMITISM" [Part 3] of 28 June - 4 July, 2016

-
https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=474286859431822&id=100005515364934

[Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD]

Gordon wrote in part:

> All things are possible ...

"...with GOD..." (Matthew 19:26)

> ... except those things that God restricts Himself
> from doing. For example, God cannot lie.

To lie is to be without GOD, Who is the truth (John 14:6).

GOD, Who is omnipotent, able to do all things, simply does not
lie/sin.

Sin is defined as doing that which is wrong.

For example, it is wrong to think that being hungry means to be
starving (Genesis 25:32) as in the example of Esau being wrong and
godless:

http://bit.ly/BiblicalEsau was http://bit.ly/TerriblyHungry

Source:
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.support.diabetes/R68NNLyw480/bnAEeii-AwAJ

I am instead "wonderfully hungry" ( http://bit.ly/Philippians4_12 )
and hope you, Gordon, also have a healthy appetite too :-)

So how are you ?

...because we mindfully choose to openly care with our heart,

HeartDoc Andrew <><
--
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Emory's IMVC.org cardiologist (GA Lic#040347)

and author of the 2PD-OMER Approach:
http://JiL4ever.net/Luke2442
which is the absolutely only **healthy** cure for type-2 diabetes

[Jeanne Douglas]

In article <8oCdnS6psoqMrOfK...@westnet.com.au>,

Gordon <gord...@swbell.net> wrote:

> -- Karl Barth on Knowledge of God

Who the fuck is Karl Barth and why should I give a fuck what he thinks?

[Jeanne Douglas]

In article <4rpknblf8aimmd3hf...@4ax.com>,

The ONLY information you have provided is that you're complete insane
and a total abject coward.

[Jeanne Douglas]

In article <6pqknbp40e87fj1i8...@4ax.com>,

I didn't ask for "introspective thinking". I asked for EVIDENCE. Where's
your EVIDENCE?

[Jeanne Douglas]

In article <12rknb5ram2o2896f...@4ax.com>,

How, exactly? Provide the maths to describe your idiocy.