"Fair and Balanced" ... from the insider's view

[-hh]

Cuss 'n Discuss:

<https://medium.com/@tobinsmith_95851/how-roger-ailes-fox-news-scammed-americas-la-z-boy-cowboys-for-21-years-1996ee4a6b3e>


-hh

[B...@onramp.net]

Well Mod and Greg, how does it feel to find out from the inside that
you've been treated to absolute scamming by the "fair and balanced"
outlet you so dearly believe? I'm pretty sure that Mike isn't
surprised. I'm also pretty sure that you didn't finish the article
for obvious reasons.

[B...@onramp.net]

On Tue, 30 May 2017 10:39:56 -0500 (CDT), Moderate
<nos...@noemail.com> wrote:

>B...@Onramp.net Wrote in message:

>A hit piece from a crook who was fired four years ago.

I knew you wouldn't be able to finish it. You lie so easily that it
was a sure thing that you'd dismiss it in some way. Of course he's a
crook. They hired him because he fit in perfectly.

[Alan Baker]

On 2017-05-30 8:39 AM, Moderate wrote:
> B...@Onramp.net Wrote in message:

> A hit piece from a crook who was fired four years ago.
>

What reason would he have to lie; especially after four years?

[Alan Baker]

> I didn't miss anything.
>
> Your allegation is absurd. He was fired for being a crook. Not
> hired for being a crook. Your dishonesty is well
> documented.
>

You realize that his piece is corroborated (you'll have to look that
word up, I know) by this article:

' We weren’t scheduled to meet with Ailes, but at the last minute, he
decided to sit in—as if he had to get a look at these bozos who thought
“Fair and Balanced” actually meant fair and balanced. Of course, he took
over the meeting, simultaneously bragging about his success and
demeaning us, all while being some mutant form of charming. He
dispatched our idea pretty quickly.

“I created a TV network for people 55 to dead,” Ailes boasted to us.
“Nobody believed it could be done, but I did it. It’s for guys who sit
on their couch with the remote all day and night.” That seemed a
condescending way to talk about his audience—not to mention, much of the
Republican base—but it was fascinating anyway.

“And they don’t want to see anyone like you,” he continued, looking
directly at me. I wasn’t sure whether he meant a liberal, or a brunette
newswoman in a dark pantsuit. “They don’t want to see you—they don’t
even want to know that you exist!” And he was obliging them: he’d
created a world where women were blonde and wore short tight skirts, men
were in charge, and articulate, principled, complicated
liberals—especially women—didn’t exist.'

<https://www.thenation.com/article/my-only-meeting-with-roger-ailes/>

[B...@onramp.net]

On Tue, 30 May 2017 11:35:28 -0500 (CDT), Moderate

>I didn't miss anything.
>
>Your allegation is absurd. He was fired for being a crook. Not
> hired for being a crook. Your dishonesty is well
> documented.

I'm dishonest for having an opinion?
Then you've been dishonest the 18 or 20 years I've read your posts.
You have nothing but opinions. I think he was and did fit in with
most of the Fox crew. Prove me wrong. LOL.

[Dene]

Obviously Fox News has evolved.

[MNMikeW]

Not to mention Tobin Smith had an axe to grind after getting shitcanned
from Fox after getting caught in SEC stock fraud.

[B...@onramp.net]

On Wed, 31 May 2017 12:27:28 -0700 (PDT), Dene <gds...@aol.com>
wrote:

Point one area in which they've evolved to the better.

[B...@onramp.net]

How could he have an axe to grind? He was at odds with the Fox
network's policy on accepting profits from other sources, not because
of getting caught in a penny stock fraud. He wasn't found guilty
until a year after he left Fox.

Fox has been shown to be scripted....a fraud in itself.

[Alan Baker]

Then why did he wait so long?

[MNMikeW]

You think that shit does not happen all over, you've naive.

[Dene]

Point one area in which they've evolved to the better.

Show me where they haven't.

[MNMikeW]

They aren't NBC.

[Dene]

> Point one area in which they've evolved to the better.

They aren't NBC.

Or CNN...which sadly use to be moderate.

[Alan Baker]

No, Mikey.

You and your ilk have been telling us that Fox is the only "fair and
balanced" source...

...and this shows how full of it you all are.

:-)

[-hh]

On Wednesday, May 31, 2017 at 5:02:17 PM UTC-4, Dene wrote:

> BobbyK wrote:
> > Point one area in which they've evolved to the better.
>
> Show me where they haven't.

Role reversal much, Greg?

You were the one who made the claim that Fox evolved, so
it is your responsibility to substantiate your claim.

And if you can't support it, then withdraw your claim.


-hh

[Alan Baker]

On 2017-05-31 2:02 PM, Dene wrote:
> Point one area in which they've evolved to the better.
>
> Show me where they haven't.
>

You're the one making the claim.

You tacitly admit that they were peddling bullshit, and counter that
they've evolved...

...but now you punk on actually supporting your claim.

[Alan Baker]

Or still is in a very extreme world.

:-)

[Dene]

Read the entire thread, blathering idiot. BK was the one who made the claims.

[Alan Baker]

With which you tacitly agreed, Greg, but to which you countered that
"they've evolved".

[B...@onramp.net]

I've been around a long time Mike. Have known some of the major
networks' reporters and on-screen anchors for CBS and NBC in LA. I
can guarantee that the kind of scripting and "hit man" situations
don't exist there. Fox has a projected raison d'etre laid out by
Ailes and it stinks.

[B...@onramp.net]

On Wed, 31 May 2017 14:02:14 -0700 (PDT), Dene <gds...@aol.com>
wrote:

>Point one area in which they've evolved to the better.
>
>Show me where they haven't.

LOL. Exactly the same answer that Alan uses, and .you have nothing but
disdain for him. I'll give you the reposte that always follows; You
brought it up so show where they have.

[Alan Baker]

Bobby,

I almost never use that answer.

I'd remove the almost, but I can't be sure.

:-)

[B...@onramp.net]

On Wed, 31 May 2017 15:55:55 -0700, Alan Baker <alang...@telus.net>
wrote:

Nor I, but I know for sure that this conversation happens quite often,
I just don't remember which side you've been on.

[Carbon]

On 05/31/2017 03:27 PM, Dene wrote:
> On Tuesday, May 30, 2017 at 6:32:37 AM UTC-8, B...@onramp.net wrote:
>> On Tue, 30 May 2017 06:27:43 -0700 (PDT), -hh
>> <recscub...@huntzinger.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Cuss 'n Discuss:
>>>
>>> <https://medium.com/@tobinsmith_95851/how-roger-ailes-fox-news-scammed-americas-la-z-boy-cowboys-for-21-years-1996ee4a6b3e>
>>

>> Well Mod and Greg, how does it feel to find out from the inside that
>> you've been treated to absolute scamming by the "fair and balanced"
>> outlet you so dearly believe? I'm pretty sure that Mike isn't
>> surprised. I'm also pretty sure that you didn't finish the article
>> for obvious reasons.
>
> Obviously Fox News has evolved.

Sean Hannity is still has a primetime show. So not so much.

[Alan Baker]

I don't think anyone here can find a single instance of me making a
claim and then insisting the other person prove it's not true.

[Alan Baker]

That would be the same Sean Hannity who is still perpetuating the
utterly fabricated story of Seth Rich and the DNC's emails?

:-)

[Dene]

When it comes to extremism, Hannity is milk toast compared to Rachel.

[Dene]

Here is what I know. When I want straight news, I watch Shepherd Smith or read the CBS news app. If I want balanced, entertaining commentary, I watched the Five.

There is nothing like this I've seen on CNN or MSNBC. If I'm wrong, enlighten me.

Could care less about the OP link written by a former disgruntled employee of a dead guy. I read it and gave it due consideration. I trust my own experience and judgment above all else....especially in this room.

[Alan Baker]

So tell us upon which issues surrounding Trump, CBS has differed
significantly from CNN or MSNBC, Greg...

[Dene]

On Wed, 31 May 2017 15:55:55 -0700, Alan Baker <alang...@telus.net>
wrote:

- show quoted text -

Nor I, but I know for sure that this conversation happens quite often,
I just don't remember which side you've been on.

You're trying to reason with a RAT, BK.
Good luck with that.

[B...@onramp.net]

On Wed, 31 May 2017 16:02:20 -0700, Alan Baker <alang...@telus.net>

As I said I'm not sure but there have been times that you've pointed
out that someone had made a statement that they needed to prove, or
said that you weren't obliged to prove their statement for them.

[B...@onramp.net]

On Wed, 31 May 2017 16:19:07 -0700 (PDT), Dene <gds...@aol.com>
wrote:

That has nothing to do with the OP. Goalpost move.

[Alan Baker]

And you're trying to have it both ways:

Claim you've killfiled me, but then still turn around and try to insult me.

Class, Greg: you're all class.

[Alan Baker]

I've certainly done both of those...

[B...@onramp.net]

On Wed, 31 May 2017 16:25:42 -0700 (PDT), Dene <gds...@aol.com>

wrote:

>On Wed, 31 May 2017 14:02:14 -0700 (PDT), Dene <gds...@aol.com>
>wrote:
>
>>Point one area in which they've evolved to the better.
>>
>>Show me where they haven't.
>
>LOL. Exactly the same answer that Alan uses, and .you have nothing but
>disdain for him. I'll give you the reposte that always follows; You
>brought it up so show where they have.
>
>Here is what I know. When I want straight news, I watch Shepherd Smith or read the CBS news app. If I want balanced, entertaining commentary, I watched the Five.
>
>There is nothing like this I've seen on CNN or MSNBC. If I'm wrong, enlighten me.

That isn't the thrust of this thread.

>
>Could care less about the OP link written by a former disgruntled employee of a dead guy.
> I read it and gave it due consideration. I trust my own experience and judgment above all else....especially in this room.

That's pretty bold. There are those in this room that have more
experience and judgment than the rest of us in many areas.l

[B...@onramp.net]

On Wed, 31 May 2017 16:28:32 -0700 (PDT), Dene <gds...@aol.com>
wrote:

My hope was to be able to reason with you on this Greg.

[Alan Baker]

I think you've seen how well that's working...

:-)

[Dene]

Since when, in this room, does a thread not wander?

[Dene]

Then answer my question....where am I wrong with my experience and judgment?

-Greg

[Dene]

I'm listening.
Conversion is a different story.

[B...@onramp.net]

On Wed, 31 May 2017 17:07:01 -0700 (PDT), Dene <gds...@aol.com>

Here.

"I trust my own experience and judgment above all else".

IMO that's too broad in any venue.

[B...@onramp.net]

On Wed, 31 May 2017 19:29:41 -0500 (CDT), Moderate
<nos...@noemail.com> wrote:

>B...@Onramp.net Wrote in message:
>> On Wed, 31 May 2017 16:25:42 -0700 .

>>
>> That's pretty bold. There are those in this room that have more
>> experience and judgment than the rest of us in many areas.l
>>
>

>Thank you BK.

I don't know a thing about elevator buttons. That would be it in your
case.

[-hh]

And here's the cite where Greg made that claim:

<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rec.sport.golf/8EA9-6jfTFg/f97onCnOCAAJ>

Oh, and while we're at it, here's Greg's unsubstantiated claim on CNN:

<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rec.sport.golf/8EA9-6jfTFg/ND1d5aLTCAAJ>

Kindly now support both, Greg.

Oh, and while you're at it, a personal apology to me for your error would also be appreciated.


-hh

[-hh]

Particualrly when one knows that someone else has even MORE
experience and judgement acumen than one's self.

To spurn the opportunity to leverage a clearly superior information/
resource base is simply foolish.


-hh

[MNMikeW]

B...@Onramp.net wrote:

>>>>>
>>>>> Obviously Fox News has evolved.
>>>>>
>>>> Not to mention Tobin Smith had an axe to grind after getting shitcanned
>>> >from Fox after getting caught in SEC stock fraud.
>>>
>>> How could he have an axe to grind? He was at odds with the Fox
>>> network's policy on accepting profits from other sources, not because
>>> of getting caught in a penny stock fraud. He wasn't found guilty
>>> until a year after he left Fox.
>>>
>>> Fox has been shown to be scripted....a fraud in itself.
>>
>> You think that shit does not happen all over, you've naive.
>
> I've been around a long time Mike. Have known some of the major
> networks' reporters and on-screen anchors for CBS and NBC in LA. I
> can guarantee that the kind of scripting and "hit man" situations
> don't exist there. Fox has a projected raison d'etre laid out by
> Ailes and it stinks.

Yeah, and how many years ago was that? You can't guarantee shit.

[MNMikeW]

Dene wrote:

> I trust my own experience and judgment above all else....especially in this room.

Two thumbs up.

[MNMikeW]

Says the guy who spit in a tube for a living. ;-)

[B...@onramp.net]

Yes I can. Most of the same people are there, and Brokaw is still a
major influence at NBC. I know that he wouldn't put up with
shenanigans like FOX pulls. You just refuse to believe that Ailes
built it on his biases.

[B...@onramp.net]

That statement included you Mike. Now one thumb? :-)

[B...@onramp.net]

Which took more intelligence, judgment and experience than being a
stockbroker then an agent for a major ISP. :-)

P.S. the ISP was in the nineties and made everything else look puny $
wise. Right place, right time.

[MNMikeW]

B...@Onramp.net wrote:

>>> Ailes and it stinks.
>>
>> Yeah, and how many years ago was that? You can't guarantee shit.
>
> Yes I can. Most of the same people are there, and Brokaw is still a
> major influence at NBC. I know that he wouldn't put up with
> shenanigans like FOX pulls. You just refuse to believe that Ailes
> built it on his biases.

You mean like you refuse to believe the bias at NBC/MSNBC?

[MNMikeW]

I remember when you were there.

[B...@onramp.net]

MSNBC shows bias, but it wasn't designed by it's major owner to follow
specific and scripted newscasts. You don't see the liberal aspect
always win out in discussions.

NBC has some who are left leaning, but again...not predicated on
orders from management.

Face it FOX is a piece of shit and was designed to appeal to a
specific political group. I can't think of any other major news that
does. Plenty of Web sites on both sides were though.

[MNMikeW]

MSBNC is the lefty Fox equivalent.

[B...@onramp.net]

On Thu, 1 Jun 2017 11:29:38 -0500 (CDT), Moderate <nos...@noemail.com>

wrote:

>B...@Onramp.net Wrote in message:

>> On Thu, 01 Jun 2017 09:29:13 -0500, .

>>
>> Yes I can. Most of the same people are there, and Brokaw is still a
>> major influence at NBC. I know that he wouldn't put up with
>> shenanigans like FOX pulls. You just refuse to believe that Ailes
>> built it on his biases.
>>
>

>Or he designed it to be the most watched cable news network which
> it is.
Yes, but he designed it to be for a certain age group and political
bent. He was successful too. Every right wing kook believes what is
presented by FOX news.
>
>There is no attempt by the other networks to even conceal the fake
> news coming out of their programming. They are absurd.

Wrong. You've been brainwashed, and it didn't take much.

[B...@onramp.net]

It comes close, but not designed to be the same, scripted format.

[MNMikeW]

B...@Onramp.net wrote:
> On Thu, 1 Jun 2017 11:29:38 -0500 (CDT), Moderate<nos...@noemail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> B...@Onramp.net Wrote in message:
>>> On Thu, 01 Jun 2017 09:29:13 -0500, .
>>>
>>> Yes I can. Most of the same people are there, and Brokaw is still a
>>> major influence at NBC. I know that he wouldn't put up with
>>> shenanigans like FOX pulls. You just refuse to believe that Ailes
>>> built it on his biases.
>>>
>>
>> Or he designed it to be the most watched cable news network which
>> it is.
> Yes, but he designed it to be for a certain age group and political
> bent. He was successful too. Every right wing kook believes what is
> presented by FOX news.

Just like every left wing kook believes what is presented by MSNBC.

[MNMikeW]

Total bullshit.

[Dene]

And now CNN.

[Dene]

X2

[B...@onramp.net]

I never watched MSNBC but one weekend ago for some reason I did...and
CNN to see what they were pushing. Except for Rachel Maddow, who I
dislike anyway, it didn't push liberalism as much as Fox does
Alt-Right.
About Maddow. She's a PITA but I have to admit that she's brilliant.

CNN surprised me. I saw no leftism being pushed.

I may have caught both of them at another level though.
Their web sites are a different story. Both show more bias.

[B...@onramp.net]

Your opinion is noted, and dismissed. :-)

[B...@onramp.net]

Opinion noted and disregarded.

[John B.]

On Wednesday, May 31, 2017 at 4:14:40 PM UTC-4, B...@onramp.net wrote:
> On Wed, 31 May 2017 12:27:28 -0700 (PDT), Dene <gds...@aol.com>
> wrote:
>
> >On Tuesday, May 30, 2017 at 6:32:37 AM UTC-8, B...@onramp.net wrote:
> >> On Tue, 30 May 2017 06:27:43 -0700 (PDT), -hh
> >> <recscub...@huntzinger.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> >Cuss 'n Discuss:
> >> >
> >> ><https://medium.com/@tobinsmith_95851/how-roger-ailes-fox-news-scammed-americas-la-z-boy-cowboys-for-21-years-1996ee4a6b3e>
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >-hh
> >>
> >> Well Mod and Greg, how does it feel to find out from the inside that
> >> you've been treated to absolute scamming by the "fair and balanced"
> >> outlet you so dearly believe? I'm pretty sure that Mike isn't
> >> surprised. I'm also pretty sure that you didn't finish the article
> >> for obvious reasons.

> >
> >Obviously Fox News has evolved.
>

> Point one area in which they've evolved to the better.

I will say they have defended CNN against Trump/Spicer accusations
that they report "fake news."

[John B.]

On Wednesday, May 31, 2017 at 5:02:17 PM UTC-4, Dene wrote:

> Point one area in which they've evolved to the better.
>

> Show me where they haven't.

Sexual harassment of female employees.

[John B.]

I have more experience in journalism and in government than you and
everybody else here combined.

[Dene]

- hide quoted text -

So is there a liberal bias?

[Dene]

You don't think the new leadership isn't addressing this?

[Alan Baker]

So you admit it was a problem up until when, Greg?

[Carbon]

You suckers are being sold a bill of goods.

https://goo.gl/xtzjop

[John B.]

When did I say that?

[John B.]

I have no idea.

[Dene]

> I have more experience in journalism and in government than you and
> everybody else here combined.
>
> So is there a liberal bias?

When did I say that?

Didn't claim you did. The inquiry is too genuinely seek your opinion, based on your vast experience.

[John B.]

If you're asking me about liberal bias at CNN or other TV news
channels, I have no opinion because I never watch them.

[Dene]

Fine...is their liberal bias in the print media you read?

[John B.]

Not much. I try to avoid publications that are biased one way
or the other.

[Dene]

- show quoted text -

Not much. I try to avoid publications that are biased one way
or the other.

Please share. I'm always on the lookout for objective reporting.

[John B.]

NYT, Wall St. Journal, Financial Times, Economist.