Can Mac Adobe Illustrator read in a Microsoft PowerPoint with fonts?

[Ragnusen Ultred]

Can Mac Adobe Illustrator read in a Microsoft PowerPoint & with fonts?

I have someone making signs for me on a vinyl style printer where she says
she can't read in the Microsoft Powerpoint and fonts, even though I've
embedded the entire truetype set (not just what's used in the document) in
the PowerPoint file.

I don't have a Mac nor Adobe Illustrator to test it out, but can't
Illustrator just read in the PowerPoint file with the fonts?

She says it can't do either, so she has to re-create the sign from a JPEG
which seems pretty ridiculous to me but I don't know the technology at all
since I have never done it.

It's basically two question:
1. Can Mac Adobe Illustrator read in a PowerPoint file from Windows?
2. If yes, can't it get the font out of the embedded font in the PPT file?

[nospam]

In article <p9hl9b$1354$1...@gioia.aioe.org>, Ragnusen Ultred

<rrag...@ultred.com> wrote:

> Can Mac Adobe Illustrator read in a Microsoft PowerPoint & with fonts?

illustrator is the same on both platforms and can open a wide variety
of formats, except that powerpoint is not one of them (no surprise
there).

<https://helpx.adobe.com/illustrator/kb/supported-file-formats-illustrat
or.html>

> I have someone making signs for me on a vinyl style printer where she says
> she can't read in the Microsoft Powerpoint and fonts, even though I've
> embedded the entire truetype set (not just what's used in the document) in
> the PowerPoint file.

powerpoint is the *wrong* tool for making signs, which you were told
the last time you asked about that (and subsequently ignored all of the
advice).

*start* with illustrator.

otherwise, save the powerpoint as pdf and open that.

[Savageduck]

On Mar 28, 2018, Ragnusen Ultred wrote
(in article <p9hl9b$1354$1...@gioia.aioe.org>):

> Can Mac Adobe Illustrator read in a Microsoft PowerPoint & with fonts?
>
> I have someone making signs for me on a vinyl style printer where she says
> she can't read in the Microsoft Powerpoint and fonts, even though I've
> embedded the entire truetype set (not just what's used in the document) in
> the PowerPoint file.
>
> I don't have a Mac nor Adobe Illustrator to test it out, but can't
> Illustrator just read in the PowerPoint file with the fonts?
>
> She says it can't do either, so she has to re-create the sign from a JPEG
> which seems pretty ridiculous to me but I don't know the technology at all
> since I have never done it.

Since we all know who is who in this pond I will accept your query as
genuine, but I am weary of all you post.

>
> It's basically two question:
> 1. Can Mac Adobe Illustrator read in a PowerPoint file from Windows?

Sort of, but first there is no Mac Adobe Ilustrator. Currently there is Adobe
Illustrator CC for Win and Mac, and is available for monthly subscription.

<https://www.adobe.com/products/illustrator.html>

As to how a PPT file can be read into Ai there are a few steps to be
followed:

<https://youtu.be/-1gCwdRwIsY>

<https://www.free-power-point-templates.com/articles/how-to-convert-a-
powerpoint-presentation-to-a-vector-image/>

<https://pptxtreme.com/powerpoint-to-photoshop-and-back-on-your-mac/>

>
> 2. If yes, can't it get the font out of the embedded font in the PPT file?

<https://yourbusiness.azcentral.com/making-powerpoint-slides-illustrator-
4813.html>

Probably, if you follow some of the tips above.

Personally, with my interest in photography rather than design, or
illustration I do not use Ai just Lightroom CC, and Photoshop CC along with
some othe photography centric software. If I want to open a PPT file, or
presentation on my Mac I use Keynote.

--

Regards,
Savageduck

[Mayayana]

"Ragnusen Ultred" <rrag...@ultred.com> wrote

| Can Mac Adobe Illustrator read in a Microsoft PowerPoint & with fonts?
|

Please cross-post if necessary, rather than multi-posting.
Your question is being answered in the Win10 group. The
consensus seems to be:

Convert the PPT to PDF. (In MS Office, or failing that,
in Libre Office.)

Import the PDF into Illustrator.

[Ragnusen Ultred]

Am Thu, 29 Mar 2018 08:48:34 -0400, schrieb Mayayana:

> Your question is being answered in the Win10 group.

The answer is different on the two platforms since the entire set of
truetype embedded fonts are involved.

I would ask on the Mac group, but it's filled to the brim with little
children who have almost no technical competency so it would be a waste to
ask there, whereas adults reside here who own a Mac, and the Windows group
is always adults as can be seen by the responses there.

Moving forward, I'm leaning toward PDF, DOC, or WMF, but I don't think WMF
can embed the fonts (I never worked with WMF).

[Ragnusen Ultred]

Am Thu, 29 Mar 2018 07:15:31 -0700, schrieb Ragnusen Ultred:

> Moving forward, I'm leaning toward PDF, DOC, or WMF, but I don't think WMF
> can embed the fonts (I never worked with WMF).

Quick update.
Forget WMF. The PPT to WMF output looks nothing like the originals.

So it's only PDF and DOC/RTF (and other image-file formats) that are left
that AI will read in directly, but the DOC/RTF seems to only be the text
and not the graphics, so, without a 'converter' program of some type,
Microsoft Word DOC files are not feasible.

PDF with embedded fonts is the main option, it seems, although the MAC
Windows suite can't handle embedded fronts in Windows documents but I'm not
sure about whether the Mac Adobe Illustrator can handle embedded fonts in
PDF documents.

Another option, which came up on the helpful Windows newsgroup, is to
convert the font text to curves using this option (assuming the
no-longer-available MS Office 2007 plugin is already installed).

Office Logo > Save As > (choose PDF) > Tools > Publish

Tools contains these subsections
a. Map Network Drive...
b. Save Options...
c. General Options...
d. Web Options...
e. Compress Pictures...

In the "Save Options...", there is
A. Popular
B. Proofing
C. Save
D. Advanced
E. Customize
F. Trust Center
G. Resources

Under "Advanced" is a "Print" section, and under that is:
[_]Print TrueType fonts as graphics

However, I just ran a quick test, where the results of looking at a small
"e" zoomed tightly on saving to PDF with and without that option doesn't
seem to make any realistic difference at the size of two-inch letters
typical of road signs.

http://i.cubeupload.com/3Zbidh.gif

--
Assumes "SaveAsPDFandXPS.exe" is already installed:
2007 Microsoft Office Add-in: Microsoft Save as PDF or XPS
https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/download/details.aspx?id=7

[nospam]

In article <p9ise3$15ja$1...@gioia.aioe.org>, Ragnusen Ultred

<rrag...@ultred.com> wrote:

>
> > Your question is being answered in the Win10 group.
>
> The answer is different on the two platforms since the entire set of
> truetype embedded fonts are involved.

no it isn't, since illustrator is the same on both platforms.

> I would ask on the Mac group, but it's filled to the brim with little
> children who have almost no technical competency

troll attempt confirmed.

[Ragnusen Ultred]

Am Thu, 29 Mar 2018 15:39:01 -0400, schrieb nospam:

> troll attempt confirmed.

I only speak valid verified fact that any adult can verify for himself.

What's confirmed, time and again, is that once any of the Apple-based
child-like posters, such as you, nosmap, and Jolly Roger, Lewis, BK@OnRamp,
Alan Baker, Tim Streator, etc. infest a technical-question thread, it's
dead.

Witness, for example, the *immense* progress the Windows adults made on the
same question, by the same poster, at the same time, with many excellent
technical questions and answers resolved by adults.
Can Adobe Illustrator read in a Microsoft PowerPoint & with fonts?
<http://www.pcbanter.net/showthread.php?t=1103517>

On the adult platform newsgroup, we not only proved out all the necessary
steps, the adults there also found where to get the AI software (apparently
for free but I need to doublecheck that), with a valid Windows license,
using the valid free TT fonts, and outputing and inputting the right file
formats, and running the requisite steps inside the free AI tool suite:
1. Import the AI format file into AI CS2
2. Use the CutContour command
3. Use the embedded fonts
4. Print to vinyl

On the Mac group, which, for decades, has been proven time and again to be
filled to the brim with child-like responses to any technical question they
don't like, the valid technical question wouldn't likely have received a
*single* purposefully helpful technical answer, and as a result of the
children who are proven time and again to infest the Apple newsgroups, the
thread would have been miles long, getting nowhere, as this simple Mac
question recently was.
Can a Mac edit an iOS file over WiFi without iTunes existing on the Mac?
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/comp.sys.mac.system/qjSmqEa-P8k/khhfEbzBAAAJ>

What's going on?
I don't know, but it seems that simply asking a technical question that
Apple users don't like results in them purposefully destroying the thread
with their childish rants.

Examples abound where this thread simply supplies valid verified proof:
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/comp.sys.mac.system/HS86K5NJBgU/zcn_LvqcBgAJ>

Notice, as that thread proves, on the Windows and Linux newsgroups, we ask
the same questions as we ask on the Apple newsgropus, and lo and behold,
adults answer the same question by *purposfully* providing helpful answers.

Fancy that.
It's only the select set of, admittedly prolific, Apple posters, who, over
the decades, have proven time and again that they're incapable of handling
technical questions they don't like, as adults would.

There is so much proof on the net that these Apple-based half-dozen or so
posters purposfully ruin any technical thread they don't like, that you may
as well assume any thread that they, or you infest, is dead the moment you
join it.

Like what happened to this thread, the moment you joined it.

Luckily, adults are proven to exist on the other newsgroups, so fantastic
technical progress was made despite the child-like Apple posters that you
represent.

Proof positive is here:
Can Adobe Illustrator read in a Microsoft PowerPoint & with fonts?
<http://www.pcbanter.net/showthread.php?t=1103517>

[Ragnusen Ultred]

Am Thu, 29 Mar 2018 08:48:34 -0400, schrieb Mayayana:

> Please cross-post if necessary, rather than multi-posting.
> Your question is being answered in the Win10 group. The
> consensus seems to be:
>
> Convert the PPT to PDF. (In MS Office, or failing that,
> in Libre Office.)
>
> Import the PDF into Illustrator.

Hi Mayayana,

By now, you realize why you can't have any Apple users on any thread where
you actually expect three things:
a. Technical competency
b. Purposefully helpful responses
c. On-topic technical responses

Over the past two decades, that maxim has held out in spades, where recent
experiments show that it doesn't even matter /what/ the topic is, if the
Apple users are involved, it devolves instantly into childish drivel.

I was wrong when I thought the Apple children just didn't like facts that
were 'inconvenient' for them, such as anything truthful about either iOS or
the Mac OS.

I know this because I ran an experiment earlier this week about cable
strain relief, where I purposefully asked the same question, not as me, of
a set of non-Apple newsgroups, and a set of Apple newsgroups.

Remember, this experiment was about a cable strain relief, for heaven's
sake, which shouldn't /threaten/ the Apple posters in the least - and yet -
as always - the Apple posters alone destroyed the thread!

*Experiment showing the more Apple posters, the more unhelpful garbage*
From: Erholt Rhein
Title: What do you use as a USB cable strain relief?
Newsgroups: alt.windows7.general,comp.sys.mac.system,misc.phone.mobile.iphone
Proof: <https://groups.google.com/d/msg/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/RDTYTGMX_iM/SQmXbIRuBAAJ>

*Experiment showing lack of Apple posters always comes to a helpful solution!*
From: Erholt Rhein
Title: What do you use as a USB cable strain relief?
Newsgroups: sci.electronics.repair,comp.mobile.android,alt.home.repair
Proof: <https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.home.repair/bzlhAN_xYOM/OP7iFPBeAgAJ>

The proof is astoundingly reliable over the decades, that no matter what
technical question is asked, if Apple posters are involved, the thread will
almost never come to a technical solution - while if you eliminate the
Apple posters, you almost always come to a great solution.

Like all experiments that involve the Apple newsgroups, only the Apple
thread went to hell in a hand basket instantly, simply because when gnats
buzz a picnic, they will /always/ ruin the thread.

Sure, you can attempt to swat away the Apple gnats, or you can try to
ignore them, but the moment these Apple parasites find your picnic, the
thread is as good as ruined already.

Since I only speak valid facts verifiable by any sentient adult, here are
the links to that simple non-operating-system related experiment.

Apple posters posting incessant drivel to the simplest of questions:
Adult posters posting purposefully helpful answers to the same questions:

As just another pertinent example that the Apple posters have no intention
to ever be helpful, nor can they be helpful, just look at this simple
summary from the /same/ thread topic, where the difference between the lack
of technical competence on this newsgroup versus the adult newsgroup is
stellar.

High purposefully unhelpful ratio:
*Can Mac Adobe Illustrator read in a Microsoft PowerPoint with fonts?*
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rec.photo.digital/zdVFRNwhdA8/UXTcwOiUBgAJ>

High purposefully helpful ratio:
*Can Adobe Illustrator read in a Microsoft PowerPoint & with fonts?*
<http://www.pcbanter.net/showthread.php?t=1103517>

*** *** *Summary of the progress on the _adult_ newsgroups* *** *** ***
0. The best format, by far, for output from PowerPoint 2007 to suck into
Adobe Illustrator is PDF, particularly a PDF with the entire embedded font
set, simply because the /native/ format of Adobe Illustrator /is/ PDF.

1. A screenshot of the template, where the users are instructed they can
change anything but the last line (the ordinance legalities) and the
outside border. For example, if they want to draw a picture, they can, but
nobody bothered. They all just changed the text, which is why PowerPoint is
the right tool for that job.
<http://i.cubeupload.com/pK8NQE.gif>

2. The powerpoint 2007 file with the entire font set embedded.
<http://www27.zippyshare.com/v/H5GDdHA1/file.html>

3. The PDF output from PowerPoint, with the entire font set embedded.
<http://www27.zippyshare.com/v/abXkQMAN/file.html>

4. The entire "Roadgeek Series B Regular" font set, where distribution
requires only that the copyright notice be kept intact.
<http://www.fontspace.com/michael-d-adams/roadgeek-2005>

5. Free licensed copy of Adobe Illustrator:
<https://www.techspot.com/downloads/4948-adobe-creative-suite-free.html>

6. Instructions for importing PDF into Adobe Illustrator:
How to edit PDF files in Adobe Illustrator
<http://blog.globalizationpartners.com/using-pdf-in-illustrator-when-source-files-are-lost.aspx>

Search archived for leverage at:
<http://tinyurl.com/alt-comp-os-windows-10>
*** *** *Summary of the progress on the _adult_ newsgroups* *** *** ***

More proof positive of the same purposefully uhhelpful posts when Apple
respondents are involved is provided in this factual summary thread:
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/comp.sys.mac.system/HS86K5NJBgU/zcn_LvqcBgAJ>

[Andreas Rutishauser]

In article <p9mlja$1h1g$1...@gioia.aioe.org>,

Ragnusen Ultred <rrag...@ultred.com> wrote:

> Am Thu, 29 Mar 2018 08:48:34 -0400, schrieb Mayayana:
>
> > Please cross-post if necessary, rather than multi-posting.
> > Your question is being answered in the Win10 group. The
> > consensus seems to be:
> >
> > Convert the PPT to PDF. (In MS Office, or failing that,
> > in Libre Office.)
> >
> > Import the PDF into Illustrator.

> 5. Free licensed copy of Adobe Illustrator:
> <https://www.techspot.com/downloads/4948-adobe-creative-suite-free.html>

and you think a Mac user will be happy with a Windows copy of CS2?

Go figure...

--
MacAndreas Rutishauser, <http://www.MacAndreas.ch>
EDV-Dienstleistungen, Hard- und Software, Internet und Netzwerk
Beratung, Unterstuetzung und Schulung
<mailto:and...@MacAndreas.ch>, Fon: 044 / 721 36 47

[nospam]

In article <andreas-4684A6...@news.individual.de>, Andreas

Rutishauser <and...@macandreas.ch> wrote:

> > 5. Free licensed copy of Adobe Illustrator:
> > <https://www.techspot.com/downloads/4948-adobe-creative-suite-free.html>
>
> and you think a Mac user will be happy with a Windows copy of CS2?
>
> Go figure...

they wouldn't be any happier with a mac version of cs2, since it's
powerpc only...

[Ragnusen Ultred]

Am Sat, 31 Mar 2018 06:21:49 +0100, schrieb Andreas Rutishauser:

> and you think a Mac user will be happy with a Windows copy of CS2?

Hi Andreas Rutishauser,

There is a reason for the PowerPoint, which is that it's a format that
everyone has already and knows already and which is easily modified as
shown in this screenshot below. <http://i.cubeupload.com/pK8NQE.gif>

There is a reason for the Windows Adobe Illustrator, which is that we want
to /test/ whether it's best to hand the Mac Adobe Illustrator just the PDF
output from PowerPoint or to hand the Mac the Adobe Illustrator AI files
from the freely available Windows version of Adobe Illustrator.

There is sufficient detail for you to understand what you seem to have
missed in this thread, posted just now, but only to the mac newsgroup.
Can the latest Mac Adobe Illustrator read in Windows Adobe Illustrator CS2 "ai-format" files?
<https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/comp.sys.mac.apps/xiJFl-xbD1o>

Thanks!

[nospam]

In article <p9n559$3o1$1...@gioia.aioe.org>, Ragnusen Ultred

<rrag...@ultred.com> wrote:

> from the freely available Windows version of Adobe Illustrator.

illustrator is not free nor has it ever been free.

you are pirating it.

[Ragnusen Ultred]

Am Sat, 31 Mar 2018 00:24:36 -0400, schrieb nospam:

> they wouldn't be any happier with a mac version of cs2, since it's
> powerpc only...

Both of you completely whooshed on the technical detail.

Rather than repeat it, just look at this thread, and try to act like an
adult, even though you, nospam, have proven for years that:
a. You don't know the answer to any technical question, and,
b. Even so, you just guess (where a monkey does as well as you do), and, a
c. Even more so, you have zero intention to ever be helpful.

Rather than prove those obvious points, I'll let you every post prove it
for me, just as you already proved in this thread on the subject:

[Ragnusen Ultred]

Am Sat, 31 Mar 2018 01:10:49 -0400, schrieb nospam:

> illustrator is not free nor has it ever been free.

In your constant question to act like a child, nospam, you completely
whooshed on all the extensive tests that Paul already ran and explained in
detail the Windows thread.

Can Adobe Illustrator read in a Microsoft PowerPoint & with fonts?

<http://www.pcbanter.net/showthread.php?t=1103517>

Notice that there, not surprisingly, no Apple users were on that Windows
thread, so it was immensely informative for all the users and not filled to
the brim with your childish drivel that you Apple users have unilaterally
spouted for decades.

Why do Apple posters always act like children.
I don't know why.

I just know that you do.

[Your Name]

On 2018-03-31 05:21:49 +0000, Andreas Rutishauser said:
> In article <p9mlja$1h1g$1...@gioia.aioe.org>,
> Ragnusen Ultred <rrag...@ultred.com> wrote:
>> Am Thu, 29 Mar 2018 08:48:34 -0400, schrieb Mayayana:
>>>
>>> Please cross-post if necessary, rather than multi-posting.
>>> Your question is being answered in the Win10 group. The
>>> consensus seems to be:
>>>
>>> Convert the PPT to PDF. (In MS Office, or failing that,
>>> in Libre Office.)
>>>
>>> Import the PDF into Illustrator.
>>
>> 5. Free licensed copy of Adobe Illustrator:
>> <https://www.techspot.com/downloads/4948-adobe-creative-suite-free.html>
>
> and you think a Mac user will be happy with a Windows copy of CS2?

You can get the Mac version as well. Technially it's not "free". You're
meant to have, and still need, a license code. Adobe turned off the
authentication servers for the old apps, meaning anyone still using
them would have problems, so Adobe supplied the download links for
tweaked versions which will work.




> Go figure...

It's a ridiculous troll question to begin with since NO version of
Adobe Illustrator can open a PowerPoint document. :-\

[Ragnusen Ultred]

Am Sat, 31 Mar 2018 19:01:08 +1300, schrieb Your Name:

> You can get the Mac version as well.

This is good to know, so thank you for being an adult, which, as has been
proven for decades, is rare on any Apple-related newsgroup.

> It's a ridiculous troll question to begin with since NO version of
> Adobe Illustrator can open a PowerPoint document. :-\

Whoever it was that errantly *thought* that was the problem simply
completely misunderstood the problem set, which was explained so many times
that it doesn't need to be explained again.

In fact, nobody on the Windows newsgroup was confused about that part of
the problem set, since they're all adults there who can comprehend facts.

Can Adobe Illustrator read in a Microsoft PowerPoint & with fonts?
<http://www.pcbanter.net/showthread.php?t=1103517>

Before anyone jumps to more completely erroneous wacky assumptions, just
look at this short post for the key unanswered question:

[Eric Stevens]

On Sat, 31 Mar 2018 01:10:49 -0400, nospam <nos...@nospam.invalid>
wrote:

"freely available" does not mean that it's "free".

It may have been better if Ragnusen Ultred had written "readily
available".
>
>you are pirating it.

Not necessarily.
--

Regards,

Eric Stevens

[Mayayana]

"Eric Stevens" <eric.s...@sum.co.nz> wrote

| >you are pirating it.
|
| Not necessarily.

Those programs were actually put online by Adobe
some time ago. Adobe themselves provided the
keys. There were license terms with the downloads
that said they were only valid if obtained from Adobe
directly. Check. So it's all perfectly legal.

Later Adobe altered the terms to say the download
was intended only for people who had bought the
programs but had lost the media and key.

My guess is that they were offering them
to get new customers who might then want to
mortgage their house to buy the latest version.
Then it probably turned out that there were no new
suckers to be had. Only people who were interested
in Adobe products *if* they were free. So Adobe
backtracked and officially claimed that, "Yes, we're
giving this stuff away. But not really."

[Mayayana]

"Ragnusen Ultred" <rrag...@ultred.com> wrote

| Hi Mayayana,
|
| By now, you realize why you can't have any Apple users on any thread where
| you actually expect three things:

Don't try to bring me into this. You're
cross-posting to a Mac group for no good
reason, then repeatedly insulting them.
And that's after you already multi-posted
to numerous groups to answer one simple
question. No one owes it to you to be
helpful.

[nospam]

In article <p9o1p2$cc$1...@dont-email.me>, Mayayana

<maya...@invalid.nospam> wrote:

>
> | >you are pirating it.
> |
> | Not necessarily.
>
> Those programs were actually put online by Adobe
> some time ago. Adobe themselves provided the
> keys. There were license terms with the downloads
> that said they were only valid if obtained from Adobe
> directly. Check. So it's all perfectly legal.

nope.

the license terms stated that cs2 is for those who already have an
existing cs2 license.

it is *not* nor never was intended to be able to leech a copy. period.

> Later Adobe altered the terms to say the download
> was intended only for people who had bought the
> programs but had lost the media and key.

nope. they never altered anything.

> My guess is

just that, and completely wrong.

> that they were offering them
> to get new customers who might then want to
> mortgage their house to buy the latest version.

nonsense.

it was a (then) 8 year old version that hadn't been sold in years and
would not run on existing hardware or operating systems anymore,
therefore they could not justify keeping the activation servers online.

new customers were buying new versions, at the time, either cs6 or
creative cloud.

your guess is not even remotely close.

> Then it probably turned out that there were no new
> suckers to be had. Only people who were interested
> in Adobe products *if* they were free. So Adobe
> backtracked and officially claimed that, "Yes, we're
> giving this stuff away. But not really."

like i said, your 'guess' is wrong.

[nospam]

In article <hgjubdpv9u23os4ao...@4ax.com>, Eric Stevens

<eric.s...@sum.co.nz> wrote:

> >
> >> from the freely available Windows version of Adobe Illustrator.
> >
> >illustrator is not free nor has it ever been free.
>
> "freely available" does not mean that it's "free".
>
> It may have been better if Ragnusen Ultred had written "readily
> available".

no difference.

> >you are pirating it.
>
> Not necessarily.

yes necessarily.

[Ragnusen Ultred]

Am Sat, 31 Mar 2018 22:01:46 +1300, schrieb Eric Stevens:

> "freely available" does not mean that it's "free".

Hi Eric,
I don't know you so I need to know if you're coming from the Mac side or
the adult side (rec.photo.digital).

If you're coming from the Mac side, then it's understanable that you're in
keeping with all the Apple children that they latch on to silly semantics
instead of the tougher technical topic which is being asked.

If you're coming from the adult side, I would simply ask you to answer the
technical question, which has no bearing on what the legal position of the
tools is (which, I might add, the adults on the Windows side already hashed
out to a level of detail that puts the silly Mac users to instant shame).

In short,
a. If you're coming from the Mac side, then you have no helpful intent, nor
do you have any technical capability to answer the question, so, it's
understandable that you latch, instead, tenaciously on silly semantic
games.

b. If you're coming from the adult side, then I already pointed you to the
adult side of that non-technical legal tangent, where your immense
confusion will be allayed.

Now back to the question at hand which has nothing to do with silly
semantics that the Apple users /always/ latch onto because they can't or
they refuse to answer even the /simplest/ of technical questions.

[Ragnusen Ultred]

Am Sat, 31 Mar 2018 09:16:49 -0400, schrieb Mayayana:

> Those programs were actually put online by Adobe
> some time ago. Adobe themselves provided the
> keys. There were license terms with the downloads
> that said they were only valid if obtained from Adobe
> directly. Check. So it's all perfectly legal.
>
> Later Adobe altered the terms to say the download
> was intended only for people who had bought the
> programs but had lost the media and key.
>
> My guess is that they were offering them
> to get new customers who might then want to
> mortgage their house to buy the latest version.
> Then it probably turned out that there were no new
> suckers to be had. Only people who were interested
> in Adobe products *if* they were free. So Adobe
> backtracked and officially claimed that, "Yes, we're
> giving this stuff away. But not really."

Thank you Mayayana for explaining the legalities which were already hashed
out in the adult newsgroup (Windows 10) and where I do appreciate that you
took the time and effort to explain this to Mr. Eric Stevens.

However ...

If this guy is from the Apple side, just explaining facts to them is like
explaining to a child why he can't have his hand in the cookie jar. It's
completely lost on these Apple children. Always. It's repeatable as the sun
rising every morning.

It doesn't matter what the facts are.
Just watch.

The Apple children, such as nospam has proven himself to be, will always
prove three points:
a. They have no intention to be helpful, ever, and,
b. They don't actually know the answer to the question, and,
c. They always just guess (where their success rate is that of the monkey)
Hence ...
They can only play their incessant silly semantic games.

Don't believe me.
Let them prove it themselves.

[nospam]

In article <p9oa46$1sut$1...@gioia.aioe.org>, Ragnusen Ultred

<rrag...@ultred.com> wrote:

> Am Sat, 31 Mar 2018 09:16:49 -0400, schrieb Mayayana:
> > Those programs were actually put online by Adobe
> > some time ago. Adobe themselves provided the
> > keys. There were license terms with the downloads
> > that said they were only valid if obtained from Adobe
> > directly. Check. So it's all perfectly legal.
> >
> > Later Adobe altered the terms to say the download
> > was intended only for people who had bought the
> > programs but had lost the media and key.
> >
> > My guess is that they were offering them
> > to get new customers who might then want to
> > mortgage their house to buy the latest version.
> > Then it probably turned out that there were no new
> > suckers to be had. Only people who were interested
> > in Adobe products *if* they were free. So Adobe
> > backtracked and officially claimed that, "Yes, we're
> > giving this stuff away. But not really."
>
> Thank you Mayayana for explaining the legalities which were already hashed
> out in the adult newsgroup (Windows 10) and where I do appreciate that you
> took the time and effort to explain this to Mr. Eric Stevens.

you two make a perfect pair.
both of you are completely delusional.

[Ragnusen Ultred]

Am Sat, 31 Mar 2018 09:22:21 -0400, schrieb Mayayana:

> Don't try to bring me into this. You're
> cross-posting to a Mac group for no good
> reason, then repeatedly insulting them.
> And that's after you already multi-posted
> to numerous groups to answer one simple
> question. No one owes it to you to be
> helpful.

Fair enough.

But watch what happens the /instant/ the Apple users, like nospam is, get
involved.

Just watch.

[Ragnusen Ultred]

Am Sat, 31 Mar 2018 11:42:57 -0400, schrieb nospam:

> you two make a perfect pair.
> both of you are completely delusional.

Notice you prove, in /every/ post the veracity of my statements.

[nospam]

In article <p9oac9$1t6j$1...@gioia.aioe.org>, Ragnusen Ultred

<rrag...@ultred.com> wrote:

> But watch what happens the /instant/ the Apple users, like nospam is, get
> involved.

he exposes the true trolls, you and your new bff, mayayana.

[Your Name]

If you're downloading the tweaked versions from Adobe without actually
owning a licence, then yes, you are pirating it. The instructions on
Aodbe's download page specifically say you have to already own a
licence.

[Ragnusen Ultred]

Am Sat, 31 Mar 2018 11:46:18 -0400, schrieb nospam:

> he exposes the true trolls, you and your new bff, mayayana.

While you, nospam, always prove in every post that...
1. You lack technical competency
2. Hence, you merely guess (scoring about how the monkeys do)
3. Worse, you purposefully post only with malice and ill intent.

Meanwhile, on the adult platform newsgroup, we made tremendous progress,
and have solved the problem, with this verbatim snippet simply being just
one examples of the solutions proposed.

*** *** *** *** Adult purposefully helpful post from Paul *** *** *** ***
https://www.techspot.com/downloads/4948-adobe-creative-suite-free.html
Last updated: January 14, 2013
Windows Serial number: 1130-1414-7569-4457-6613-5551
Developer: Adobe, License: Commercial OS: Windows File size: 1.5 GB
Installation:
http://download.adobe.com/pub/adobe/magic/creativesuite/CS2_EOL/MLTI/CS2_install_Win.pdf
Tutorial:
http://download.adobe.com/pub/adobe/magic/creativesuite/CS2_EOL/MLTI/VCS2.zip

In the CS2 incident, Adobe pulled the plug on their Activation Server.
This would have left legitimate customers with no means to re-install
the software when they wanted. This was still "buy to own" software
back in those days, and not rental software.

You would think that most customers would have registered their
purchase, and Adobe could mail some sort of details to each
customer, with a means of resolving the issue.

Instead, Adobe put up copies of the executable installers,
along with some sort of "generic" keys for each tool. People
started downloading both the license keys, and the executables,
who had not purchased the product originally. (Like this is a surprise.)

After a while, Adobe sent out a press release indicating this
wasn't some hidden intent. This wasn't "trial" software. And at that
point, the software wasn't their current version. It was an older version.

The presumption at the time was, the keys were cracked, and the
Activation Server really wasn't achieving anything. People who might
have been pirating the stuff, were probably getting hacked executables
and so on. But there isn't any additional information or background
story, as to why Adobe chose this route to solve the "legit customer"
problem with having an Activation Server turned off. The whole
episode was... pretty weird.

Sites continue, to this day, to present links to copies of that software.
Adobe might have required a user to set up an Adobe Account (just like
when you used to do a Trial with Adobe), to "gate" the download of those.
People who present copies today like TechSpot, do it so users don't have
to get an Adobe Account just to get the files.

There is a trick to installing it. Each EXE has an unpacker. The
first CD also includes an installer that starts right away.

You can unpack the software, anywhere you want. I put the unpacked
materials on C:\CS2 for example. When "1" unpacks, it creates
a folder "Adobe Creative CS2" or similar, and underneath that,
you might see one tool folder.

When you unpack 2,3,4 EXEs, you can copy the two or one or four
folders, and put them under C:\CS2\Adobe Creative CS2\ in parallel
with the tools on 1. This builds a folder with everything in it,
and the installer "stops asking for CD 2".

You might want to practice in a VM first, until you get the hang of
it.

Anyway, the purpose of the post, was to show that *some* representation
does open in Adobe Illustrator, if you pass a PDF.

The steps to post-process the work, to you or me don't seem onerous,
but the person actually doing the workflow will have their own
rules and methods of conducting business.

Generally, for embedded fonts, the intention is not to "carry" embedded
versions through multiple tools in a workflow. Any time a font needs
to be processed, the tool expects the full font to be available.
This "proves" the font is licensed for one thing, or that the
owner actually has a full copy of the font. The font itself may have
licensing bits, which indicate whether copies or embeds can be done

Full Font
|
Tool 1 Full Font
| |
+---- (embed font for ---- import --- Tool 2
print purposes) |
+--- embed subset...

That could be why the operator feels the need to "load" the
font for your "job". In the case of my LibreOffice experiment,
it was two fonts, because one font seems to be erroneously
referenced in the PDF.

People who do that sort of work, use "Font Managers". A Font
Manager may have folders with 10,000 fonts in it, and the
Font Manager loads only a subset into the system. This covers
situations where the system doesn't actually behave well if
there are 10,000 fonts in the system folder. I think I did a
test like that once, and the OS was borked well before getting
to a high number like that. So they might not "load" your
font in a conventional sense, but make it an entry in
the Font Manager which is loaded as a subset for the job.

Paul
*** *** *** *** Adult purposefully helpful post from Paul *** *** *** ***

The PDF seems to work.

Here is a simulation.

1) Sample file made in LibreOffice Impress (the equivalent of PowerPoint).
I selected a paper size of 17"x11" and I don't know if I could
have selected a paper size that you wanted. In any case,
this is the PDF exported from LibreOffice. The fonts are embedded.

I didn't want to put the word "squirrel" at the top of the drawing,
and LibreOffice tries to embed LiberationSerif font for nothing.
I added the title "squirrel" and applied LibrationSerif font, so
it would have something to embed. This stopped one warning from
Acrobat Reader when I verified the document exported.

https://s17.postimg.org/hne85qcbj/export_squirrel_pdf.gif

2) This is Illustrator CS2 pulling in the PDF.

https://s17.postimg.org/4yjxm1qrj/illus_CS2.gif

Illustrator complains about both fonts in this case, even
though they're embedded. But it proceeds anyway to convert
the font to outlines and it shows the control points as
being selected.

The operator would then have to create a CutContour where the
red box I put around the outside is located. That's still going
to cost you a "layout" charge, simply because the machine
cannot start the printing process, unless a CutContour is
defined. Illustrator has at least two kinds of data stored
inside it, while PDF has only one. The Illustrator in a way,
is a "dual representation".

There's no point in me saving out the Illustrator .ai file,
as it really wouldn't have any meaning (i.e. I don't have
any more steps that I can realistically simulate).

If you remember the CS2 incident, this is what I used for
the simulation, in a VM. You need four files from this page,
a copy of QuickTime 6.0.0 from oldversions, your squirrel4.pdf,
to do the very quick Illustrator test.

https://www.techspot.com/downloads/4948-adobe-creative-suite-free.html

This test doesn't prove much of anything, except that the PDF
does pull into Illustrator. If you needed to "re-purpose" the
artwork while it was inside Illustrator, it might be quite
a challenge to do anything with it. It doesn't look like the
importation is "seamless", at least, it doesn't give that
impression so far. But for your purposes, it might not matter.

I got the idea to do the test, from here. I didn't need to
tick any boxes like "Convert All Text" or "Convert All Strokes"
and the tool seemed to do more or less what you wanted automatically.

http://blog.globalizationpartners.com/using-pdf-in-illustrator-when-source-files-are-lost.aspx

The edge of the font looks pretty weird, and I don't
know exactly how to describe how the font has been
converted. It doesn't look exactly like Bezier.

https://s17.postimg.org/ekijzkbf3/font_edges.gif

Paul

*** *** *** *** Adult purposefully helpful post from Paul *** *** *** ***

[Alan Browne]

On 2018-03-28 23:07, Ragnusen Ultred wrote:
> Can Mac Adobe Illustrator read in a Microsoft PowerPoint & with fonts?
>
> I have someone making signs for me on a vinyl style printer where she says
> she can't read in the Microsoft Powerpoint and fonts, even though I've
> embedded the entire truetype set (not just what's used in the document) in
> the PowerPoint file.
>
> I don't have a Mac nor Adobe Illustrator to test it out, but can't
> Illustrator just read in the PowerPoint file with the fonts?
>
> She says it can't do either, so she has to re-create the sign from a JPEG
> which seems pretty ridiculous to me but I don't know the technology at all
> since I have never done it.
>
> It's basically two question:
> 1. Can Mac Adobe Illustrator read in a PowerPoint file from Windows?
> 2. If yes, can't it get the font out of the embedded font in the PPT file?

As usual, Microsoft have diddled you:
https://support.office.com/en-us/article/cross-platform-powerpoint-compatibility-0eebb4f1-c329-4c50-b83c-3af1bab640de

Near the bottom of that page is a section: "Text and Fonts". It says:

"Also remember that Windows versions of PowerPoint can embed
TrueType fonts within a presentation. But these embedded fonts
cannot be seen by Mac versions of PowerPoint."

Microsoft can't get it right w/i their own product line on 2 platforms.
I doubt that Adobe can do much better in pulling the font.


--
"2/3 of Donald Trump's wives were immigrants. Proof that we
need immigrants to do jobs that most Americans wouldn't do."
- unknown protester

[Ragnusen Ultred]

Am Sun, 1 Apr 2018 14:09:09 -0400, schrieb Alan Browne:

> As usual, Microsoft have diddled you:
> https://support.office.com/en-us/article/cross-platform-powerpoint-compatibility-0eebb4f1-c329-4c50-b83c-3af1bab640de
>
> Near the bottom of that page is a section: "Text and Fonts". It says:
>
> "Also remember that Windows versions of PowerPoint can embed
> TrueType fonts within a presentation. But these embedded fonts
> cannot be seen by Mac versions of PowerPoint."
>
> Microsoft can't get it right w/i their own product line on 2 platforms.
> I doubt that Adobe can do much better in pulling the font.

Hi Alan Browne,

Thank you for being purposefully helpful and for being an adult, by
bringing up that very important compatibility issue which is really a
Microsoft flaw, and not a Mac bug, although it affects the Mac and not
Windows.

Basically Microsoft doesn't let Mac Office read the fonts that were
embedded by Windows Office.

You'll note that I mentioned this long ago, but I don't remember if it was
mentioned in this r.p.d thread or in the a.c.o.w-10 thread, where your
admonition is very important.

The fact is that the Mac MS Office doesn't respect the Windows MS Office
embedded fonts, which is why we were hoping the Windows PDF with embedded
fonts will have better luck on the Mac with Adobe Illustrator.

So the question is really now whether the Mac can read embedded fonts in
the PDF file.

I don't have a Mac to answer that question, so I'm currently attempting to
answer that question using the Windows Adobe Illustrator.

Here is the progress we've made, to date, on the Windows newsgroup, which
has been extremely helpful, and technically competent, as always, no matter
what question is asked (nor how inconvenient the facts may be).

Here's a tutorial I just wrote up, for example, for the Windows users to
benefit from, where I simply asked them to help me figure out why the
second CD keeps being asked for.

There must be a trick - which I'm clearly ignorant of - to get the 2nd CD
to be found - but I just posted that question moments ago, so we'll wait
for the Windows users to figure it out, and then anyone can repeat the
tests I'm running, because that's how we work on the Windows and Linux
newsgroups.
==== ==== ====
1. Download the 4 files from:
https://www.techspot.com/downloads/4948-adobe-creative-suite-free.html
-----
Name: CreativeSuiteCS2Disc1.exe
Size: 375638402 bytes (358 MB)
SHA256: 36DACE2549BDE94D7A45281380EEF453FD2AF38EDA19348FA3DE567549A696EC
SHA1: 1538166046E59DB6098F75C3196E84AD9310DEA1
-----
Name: CreativeSuiteCS2Disc2.exe
Size: 427451410 bytes (407 MB)
SHA256: 5862668CA45C0196777D3D4E2108D0A6F0750F6965769CB5730944D3520DBB54
Size: 427451410 bytes (407 MB)
SHA1: D06911267603474B43F3F39E4B00029787173962
-----
Name: CreativeSuiteCS2Disc3.exe
Size: 346373903 bytes (330 MB)
SHA256: C662F1C431FAA33160523545FDA3BD58F29ED3616CB8E6D1835CCE810AD5AB30
SHA1: 54BA48723D657E4A86903ED2C876381488C8F945
-----
Name: CS_2.0_WWE_Extras_1.exe
Size: 431237012 bytes (411 MB)
SHA256: 921402DA55BFEF5E6E21DE2261F725FFE0A451153F453000FB3152635E1161BE
SHA1: 1C6CC05D49244ED1417B3E2C3136D4FD0B7F57E0

2. Unpack by right clicking & selecting 7Zip unpack to (choose the
default):
-----
CreativeSuiteCS2Disc1.exe unpacks with 7Zip to
.\CreativeSuiteCS2Disc1\Adobe Creative Suite 2.0\.
.\CreativeSuiteCS2Disc1\Design Guide.pdf
.\CreativeSuiteCS2Disc1\How To Install.html
.\CreativeSuiteCS2Disc1\How to Uninstall.pdf
.\CreativeSuiteCS2Disc1\Read Me First.html
-----
CreativeSuiteCS2Disc2.exe unpacks with 7Zip to
.\CreativeSuiteCS2Disc2\Adobe InDesign CS2\.
.\CreativeSuiteCS2Disc2\Adobe Version Cue CS2\.
-----
CreativeSuiteCS2Disc3.exe unpacks with 7Zip to
.\CreativeSuiteCS2Disc3\Adobe Creative Suite 2.0\.
-----
CS_2.0_WWE_Extras_1.exe unpacks with 7Zip to
.\CS_2.0_WWE_Extras_1\Adobe Solutions Network\.
.\CS_2.0_WWE_Extras_1\Documentation\.
.\CS_2.0_WWE_Extras_1\Goodies\.
.\CS_2.0_WWE_Extras_1\Technical Information\.

3. Combine all files and directories into a single directory:
.\CreativeSuite\CS2\Adobe Creative Suite 2.0\.
.\CreativeSuite\CS2\Adobe InDesign CS2\.
.\CreativeSuite\CS2\Adobe Solutions Network\.
.\CreativeSuite\CS2\Adobe Version Cue CS2\.
.\CreativeSuite\CS2\Design Guide.pdf
.\CreativeSuite\CS2\Documentation\.
.\CreativeSuite\CS2\Goodies\.
.\CreativeSuite\CS2\How To Install.html
.\CreativeSuite\CS2\How to Uninstall.pdf
.\CreativeSuite\CS2\Read Me First.html
.\CreativeSuite\CS2\Technical Information\.

4. Run the installer (I ran on Windows 10 1709 Creator's Edition):
.\CreativeSuite\CS2\Adobe Creative Suite 2.0\Setup.exe

5. You'll get a warning that "QuickTime 6 is required to use the
multimedia features in the Adobe Creative Suite 2", which you
can ignore.

6. Then it will require a Name (default = "Windows User") & serial number.
Name: Windows user
Company: blank
Serial Number 1130 1414 7569 4457 6613 5551

7. It will default to C:\Program Files (x86)\Adobe
It says it will use up 2.62GB
I put mine in C:\app\editor\pic\cs2

8. There will be a choice of what components to install:
[x] Adobe Illustrator CS2 (600MB)
[x] Adobe InDesign CS2 (400MB)
[x] Adobe Photoshop CS2 and Adobe ImageReady CS2 (450MB)
[x] Adobe Version Cue CS2 (300MB)

9. It will start installing and then ask:
"Please insert CD 2 to continue installation"
where if you hit the "OK" button, it will ask forever
for that CD 2.

Note: It seems to have installed Photoshop though, but nothing else.

10. So I hit cancel, and then ran the Setup.exe again.
Up pops an option to "Change/Remove the Adobe Creative Suite 2"
with the two options:
(_) Install, Re-install, or Uninstall Individual Adobe CS2 Components
(o) Uninstall all Adobe Creative Suite 2 Components

So I switch that default to:
(0) Install, Re-install, or Uninstall Individual Adobe CS2 Components
(_) Uninstall all Adobe Creative Suite 2 Components

11. This time a form came up to "Change Individual Components", saying:
Please select the components of the Adobe Creative Suite 2 to modify.
Adobe Illustrator CS2 (600MB)
[No Change - Not Installed] or [Install]
Adobe InDesign CS2 (400MB)
[No Change - Not Installed] or [Install]
Adobe Photoshop CS2 & Adobe ImageReady CS2 (450MB)
[No Change - Installed] or [Uninstall] or [Re-Install]
Adobe Version Cue CS2 (300MB)
[No Change - Not Installed] or [Install]
Where the first item in the list is the default.

12. I changed the Adobe Illustrator CS2 to "Install" & hit Next
and waited for it to display a "Finish" button, which I hit
and the installation GUI went away.

13. So I ran the Setup.exe again.
Up pops an option to "Change/Remove the Adobe Creative Suite 2"
with the two options:
(_) Install, Re-install, or Uninstall Individual Adobe CS2 Components
(o) Uninstall all Adobe Creative Suite 2 Components

So I switch that default to:
(0) Install, Re-install, or Uninstall Individual Adobe CS2 Components
(_) Uninstall all Adobe Creative Suite 2 Components

14. Now the "Change Individual Components" form says:
Please select the components of the Adobe Creative Suite 2 to modify.
Adobe Illustrator CS2 (600MB)
[No Change - Installed] or [Uninstall] or [Re-Install]
Adobe InDesign CS2 (400MB)
[No Change - Not Installed] or [Install]
Adobe Photoshop CS2 & Adobe ImageReady CS2 (450MB)
[No Change - Installed] or [Uninstall] or [Re-Install]
Adobe Version Cue CS2 (300MB)
[No Change - Not Installed] or [Install]
Where the first item in the list is the default.

15. This time I selected both the remaining tools to install and hit Next.
Drat.
It asked for CD 2 and wouldn't take anything else for an answer.
So I had to quit.

16. So I ran the Setup.exe again and only selected one product to install.
Adobe InDesign CS2 (400MB)
But it asked for CD 2 so I killed that.

17. So I ran the Setup.exe again and only selected one product to install.
Adobe Version Cue CS2 (300MB)
But it asked for CD 2 so I killed that.

18. Giving up on the entire suite, I then looked to see what was installed.
C:\editor\app\pic\cs2\.
Adobe Bridge\.
Adobe Creative Suite 2\.
Adobe Help Center\.
Adobe Illustrator CS2\.
Adobe Photoshop CS2\.
Adobe Stock Photos \.

19. I guess the executables of interest are:
C:\editor\app\pic\cs2\Adobe Illustrator CS2\Adobe Illustrator CS2.lnk
Right clicking on the shortcut to select properties shows:
Target: "C:\app\editor\pic\cs2\Adobe Illustrator CS2\Support
Files\Contents\Windows\Illustrator.exe
Open In: "c:\app\editor\pic\cs2\Adobe Illustrator CS2\Support
Files\Contents\Windows\"
C:\editor\app\pic\cs2\Adobe Photoshop CS2\Photoshop.exe
C:\editor\app\pic\cs2\Adobe Bridge\Bridge.exe

20. Creating a shortcut to the Photoshop executable and running it
pops up Photoshop version 9.0 and a voluntary registration form
and then automatically checks for updates.

Photoshop, which I've never used, appears to be working.

21. Running the Adobe Illustrator shortcut seems to run Adobe Illustrator
version 12.0.0 and it doesn't ask for registration (probably because
the first executable you run is what asks).

Illustrator, which I've never used, appears to be working.

[Eric Stevens]

On Sat, 31 Mar 2018 10:14:38 -0400, nospam <nos...@nospam.invalid>
wrote:

>In article <hgjubdpv9u23os4ao...@4ax.com>, Eric Stevens
><eric.s...@sum.co.nz> wrote:
>
>> >
>> >> from the freely available Windows version of Adobe Illustrator.
>> >
>> >illustrator is not free nor has it ever been free.
>>
>> "freely available" does not mean that it's "free".
>>
>> It may have been better if Ragnusen Ultred had written "readily
>> available".
>
>no difference.

Bananas are readily available but they are not generally free. That is
why it can be misleading to say they are freely available.

>
>> >you are pirating it.
>>
>> Not necessarily.
>
>yes necessarily.

Even if he already has a license?
--

Regards,

Eric Stevens

[nospam]

In article <p9rosr$162r$1...@gioia.aioe.org>, Ragnusen Ultred

<rrag...@ultred.com> wrote:

>
> Here's a tutorial I just wrote up, for example, for the Windows users to
> benefit from, where I simply asked them to help me figure out why the
> second CD keeps being asked for.

you can't even manage to pirate software without having problems.

[nospam]

In article <4sp2cdpsl3t4llj6d...@4ax.com>, Eric Stevens

<eric.s...@sum.co.nz> wrote:

> >> >> from the freely available Windows version of Adobe Illustrator.
> >> >
> >> >illustrator is not free nor has it ever been free.
> >>
> >> "freely available" does not mean that it's "free".
> >>
> >> It may have been better if Ragnusen Ultred had written "readily
> >> available".
> >
> >no difference.
>
> Bananas are readily available but they are not generally free. That is
> why it can be misleading to say they are freely available.

bananas are not software

> >> >you are pirating it.
> >>
> >> Not necessarily.
> >
> >yes necessarily.
>
> Even if he already has a license?

he doesn't and you know it.

[Eric Stevens]

I will let you work out which side you think I belong to.

In writing ' "freely available" does not mean that it's "free" ' I was
writing about the source of the possible confusion of others, not
illustrating my own.
--

Regards,

Eric Stevens

[Eric Stevens]

On Sun, 1 Apr 2018 10:13:45 +1200, Your Name <Your...@YourISP.com>
wrote:

That was more or less my point. While piracy was probable it is not
necessarily piracy in every case. In saying "you are pirating it"
nospam had jumped to a conclusion which was not necessarily correct.
--

Regards,

Eric Stevens

[nospam]

In article <n6q2cdtkieag6gsh6...@4ax.com>, Eric Stevens

<eric.s...@sum.co.nz> wrote:

> >>>>
> >>>> from the freely available Windows version of Adobe Illustrator.
> >>>
> >>> illustrator is not free nor has it ever been free.
> >>
> >> "freely available" does not mean that it's "free".
> >>
> >> It may have been better if Ragnusen Ultred had written "readily
> >> available".
> >>
> >>> you are pirating it.
> >>
> >> Not necessarily.
> >
> >If you're downloading the tweaked versions from Adobe without actually
> >owning a licence, then yes, you are pirating it. The instructions on
> >Aodbe's download page specifically say you have to already own a
> >licence.
>
> That was more or less my point. While piracy was probable it is not
> necessarily piracy in every case. In saying "you are pirating it"
> nospam had jumped to a conclusion which was not necessarily correct.

nope. i explained that.

the reality is that 'ultred' doesn't have a license and is pirating it.

[Savageduck]

On Apr 1, 2018, Eric Stevens wrote
(in article<r1q2cdtrbpt30fd9h...@4ax.com>):

Consider that you responded to his r.p.d. OP. The poster of many nyms then
added a cross post to comp.sys.mac.apps which has added to his confusion.

>
>
> In writing ' "freely available" does not mean that it's "free" ' I was
> writing about the source of the possible confusion of others, not
> illustrating my own.

At some point historically Adobe had the expectation that folks accessing Ai
CS2, or any of the CS2 suite, had bought a license, and might have lost the
media. They were not announcing a free for all pirating operation.

The other issue is Ai CS2 is not supported by any Intel Apple computer. So it
will only run on a legacy PPC Mac, the last of which were sold in 2006 back
in the days of the G5 and OSX 10.4 Tiger, and most of those have been
retired.

--

Regards,
Savageduck

[nospam]

In article <0001HW.2071A93B02...@news.giganews.com>,

Savageduck <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> wrote:

>
> The other issue is Ai CS2 is not supported by any Intel Apple computer. So it
> will only run on a legacy PPC Mac, the last of which were sold in 2006 back
> in the days of the G5 and OSX 10.4 Tiger, and most of those have been
> retired.

it also won't run on recent versions of windows either.

adobe took the activation servers offline because there were no new
customers.

[Ragnusen Ultred]

Am Sun, 01 Apr 2018 19:17:02 -0400, schrieb nospam:

>> Here's a tutorial I just wrote up, for example, for the Windows users to
>> benefit from, where I simply asked them to help me figure out why the
>> second CD keeps being asked for.
>
> you can't even manage to pirate software without having problems.

Hi nospam,

As always, you prove you act like a child and not like an adult in that:
a. You have zero intention to ever be helpful to anyone, and,
b. Even if you did try to help, you just guess, which means,
c. That your guess is about as useful to anyone as throwing dice would be.

Meanwhile, on the adult helpful platform newsgroups, we solve /every/
technical question ever asked.'
http://i.cubeupload.com/20nlCB.gif

For example, we now have the Adobe Illustrator test case working fine with
fonts, where it took a couple of additional steps because apparently the
original Windows Powerpoint file had embedded fonts, which came from
someone else, so I didn't have those fonts on my Windows 10 system.

In just a few minutes, we solved the problem on the adult newsgroup, where
this was the sequence of questions what resulted in a solution, as always.


0. I picked up a Powerpoint file from someone else which used this font:
http://www.fontspace.com/michael-d-adams/roadgeek-2005

Note: I never "installed" that font, to my knowledge.

1. That PowerPoint 2007 clearly has a "Roadgeek 2005 Series B" font.
http://i.cubeupload.com/1uNFmZ.gif
Note: The font exists in the PowerPoint file, by some magic, even though
I never "installed" that font explicitly (whatever it means to install
a font).

2. That "Roadgeek 2005 Series B" set is embedded in an output PDF.
http://i.cubeupload.com/FwghPH.gif

3. When I read that PDF into Adobe Illustrator, it doesn't see the font.
http://i.cubeupload.com/qIAOAL.gif

4. When I try to switch fonts, AI doesn't see that font anywhere.
http://i.cubeupload.com/qIAOAL.gif

5. When I go into the Windows Font directory, it's not there either.
http://i.cubeupload.com/6XxE7P.gif

Quick question only about how FONTS work in Windows & MS Office.
Q1: So how did Powerpoint have the font in the first place?
Q2: What's the process to "give" that font to the next tool that needs it?

Am Sun, 1 Apr 2018 20:36:08 -0400, schrieb Bob_S:
> The quick answer is the PowerPoint presentation had the fonts embedded into
> it.
> https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/826832/how-to-embed-fonts-in-powerpoint

Thanks Bob_S for that advice,

The main question is why can PowerPoint embed a font and yet Adobe
Illustrator can't embed a font?

In that manner, this "embedding" of fonts seems to be very localized, in
that PowerPoint saw it, since I never installed that font on Windows, and
so did the PDF file see it, but *nothing* else saw the font (e.g., Adobe
Illustrator) couldn't see the font anywhere.

The way I solved the problem was the following, so that others might
benefit from my first experience with such things.

A. I downloaded the zip file from the Internet of the free RoadGeek fonts.

B. I extracted that zip file to the following set of files.
http://i.cubeupload.com/UU5aCL.gif

C. I copied and pasted those extracted files to the Win10 Fonts folder.
http://i.cubeupload.com/6twBO9.gif

D. That copy and paste resulted in the fonts showing up in that folder.
http://i.cubeupload.com/PnUglo.gif

E. Then Adobe Illustrator was able to finally "see" that font.
http://i.cubeupload.com/gBNu1P.gif

F. With the result being that the AI file is the same now as the original.
http://i.cubeupload.com/20nlCB.gif

So I guess the main question with respect to fonts is why does only
PowerPoint and PDF embed fonts.

Why couldn't other programs, like Adobe Illustrator, just embed the fonts
whatever way that PowerPoint did?

[nospam]

In article <p9rvg9$1e9l$1...@gioia.aioe.org>, Ragnusen Ultred

<rrag...@ultred.com> wrote:

> Why couldn't other programs, like Adobe Illustrator, just embed the fonts
> whatever way that PowerPoint did?

because other apps are standards compliant.
microsoft isn't.

[Ragnusen Ultred]

Am Sun, 01 Apr 2018 21:05:24 -0400, schrieb nospam:

>> Why couldn't other programs, like Adobe Illustrator, just embed the fonts
>> whatever way that PowerPoint did?
>
> because other apps are standards compliant.
> microsoft isn't.

Hi nospam,

You just guess so whatever you answer is next to worthless because your
record is so dismal, the monkey finds the banana under the box more often
than you are correct on these newsgroups.

Since whatever you say has to be double checked, your answers are always
utterly worthless, since your credibility is at about 25% to 33% correct
and 75% to 66% wrong.

Luckily for you, in this case you guessed correctly (as we already figured
out the answer on the always helpful adult Windows newsgroup).

The good news is that we *always* solve the technical question on the adult
platform newsgroups, simply because of two factors:
1. Adults post on the Windows newsgroups, and,
2. They're technically competent.

Hence, the following has been proven beyond any doubt, on Windows 10, using
Powerpoint 2007 and Adobe Illustrator 12.0.0 with the TrueType "Roadgeek
2005 Series B" fonts embedded into both the PowerPoint file and into the
PDF file output by PowerPoint using the Microsoft "Save as PDF" addins.
2007 Microsoft Office Add-in: Microsoft Save as PDF or XPS
https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/download/details.aspx?id=7

Q1: Can Win10 Adobe Illustrator read in a Microsoft PowerPoint with fonts?
A1: Yes, but not directly. It takes a multi-step method. But it works.

While the helpful technically competent folks on the Windows newsgroups can
certainly streamline any process, we documented in detail the 1st
successful multi-step method we used on the Windows group, which was:

1. Obtain & install the MS Office 2007 "Save as PDF or XPS" utility.
2. Obtain & install the "Roadgeek 2005 Series B" font set into the default
Windows Font folder.
3. Obtain & install the Windows Adobe Illustrator 12.0.0 tool set.
4. Save the PowerPoint file to PDF with the entire font set embedded.
5. Attempt to read the PowerPoint directly into AI - it will fail.
6. Attempt to read the PDF into AI - fonts will fail - but keep going.
7. In AI, switch the default font to Roadgeek now in the system folder.
8. In Adobe Illustrator, save the file as a Windows "ai" format file.
http://i.cubeupload.com/20nlCB.gif

That test today answered almost all the questions, but two remain, which
I'm sure you, nospam, will be absolutely zero help on because:
a. You have proven you're not in the least technically competent, and,
b. You just guess anyway, and,
c. That's because you have zero helpful intent ever.

While I'm sure this newsgroup doesn't have the answer to the question,
we'll get that answer from the Windows adult newsgroup, which is:

Q: What are the next steps to print to vinyl (where Paul already discussed
the "cutContour" sequence so I just need to flesh that out a bit on my
own), and,

Q: Will the latest Mac Adobe Illustrator read in that Windows AI file?
(chances are that it will, but it will take a simple test to figure it
out).

[nospam]

In article <p9s21k$1h4a$1...@gioia.aioe.org>, Ragnusen Ultred

<rrag...@ultred.com> wrote:

> Luckily for you, in this case you guessed correctly

i don't guess.

[Savageduck]

On Apr 1, 2018, nospam wrote
(in article<010420182151397316%nos...@nospam.invalid>):

I see the cross post has been dropped.

--

Regards,
Savageduck

[Ragnusen Ultred]

Am Sun, 01 Apr 2018 21:51:39 -0400, schrieb nospam:

>> Luckily for you, in this case you guessed correctly
>
> i don't guess.

Hi nospam.

*Your credibility on being right on facts is utterly worthless.*

In fact, your record of just guessing wrong is so dismal that very often
I've told you that I could tell you're not formally educated because your
credibility is worthless to you.

You guess /all/ the time, where you're only right less than the monkey is
when he's picking up boxes to find the bananas.

What's worse, far worse in fact, that *every* answer from you has to be
double checked, simply because you lie in more than half your answers (or
you cleverly distort the truth, as you have done so many times that I have
told you many many times that you'd be a great *defense* lawyer, but a
lousy prosecutor - simply because of the burden of proof which you would
never be able to sustain).

You're like James Comey, which I've told you so many times when you're
caught in your numerous distortions and lies that it doesn't matter /what/
you say, it's only right about as much as the monkey is right when looking
for the hidden bananas under the boxes.

*Why do Apple Apologists lie so much about iOS capabilities?*
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/comp.mobile.android/TOwdRyqtLF8/5wy5pRXiAQAJ>

Why are the half-dozen Apple-Apologist posters, like nospam & Snit, &
Savageduck & Jolly Roger, & Lewis & BK@OnRamp & Joe & Alan Baker & Tim
Streater, etc., unlike normal adults?

I don't know why.
I just know that they are.

Experiments have proven time and againg that it doesn't matter who asks the
question or what the question is...

You, nospam, /always/ act like a child in that...
1. You have no plans on ever being helpful,
2. And, you have proven you aren't technically competent anyway,
3. So, you just guess (where the monkey and you have the same record).

Luckily, for decades, on the adult newsgroups that don't have Apple posters
like you on them, we solve (almost) /every/ problem every time.

Proof positive is the comparison of these two threads but the number of
proofs abound, even down to asking about cable strain reliefs...

_High purposefully unhelpful ratio:_
*Can Mac Adobe Illustrator read in a Microsoft PowerPoint with fonts?*
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rec.photo.digital/zdVFRNwhdA8/UXTcwOiUBgAJ>

_High purposefully helpful ratio:_
*Can Adobe Illustrator read in a Microsoft PowerPoint & with fonts?*
<http://www.pcbanter.net/showthread.php?t=1103517>

[Ron C]

Um, there weren't ever any cross posts in this thread
branch. Can't say the same for other branches.
~~
Note: I set a filter to detect and tag cross posts.
It makes life in usenet a bit less bothersome.
--
==
Later...
Ron C
--

[Ragnusen Ultred]

Am Sun, 01 Apr 2018 20:03:20 -0400, schrieb nospam:

> it also won't run on recent versions of windows either.
>
> adobe took the activation servers offline because there were no new
> customers.

*As always nospam is just guessing (again).*

Hence the accuracy of nospam's guesses is no better than the monkey lifting

up boxes to find the bananas.

*Yet again, nospam guessed wrong.*

To wit, AI CS2 (version 12.0.0) worked just fine, as did Photoshop 9.0 in
quick tests today on the latest 64-bit Windows 10 Creator's Edition 1709.
https://u.cubeupload.com/20nlCB.gif

I only speak fact which is valid and can be verified by any adult.

*The credibility of nopsam's incessant guessing is utterly worthless*
since you have to doubleckeck _evertyhign_ he says, because:
1. nospam has proven time & again he has no technical competency, hence,
2. nospam constantly and incessantly just lies all the time, because,
3. nospam has absolutely no desire to ever intend to be helpful to anyone.

[Savageduck]

On Apr 1, 2018, Ron C wrote
(in article<B7mdnZ3cwq4lDlzH...@giganews.com>):

> On 4/1/2018 9:56 PM, Savageduck wrote:
> > On Apr 1, 2018, nospam wrote
> > (in article<010420182151397316%nos...@nospam.invalid>):
> >
> > > In article<p9s21k$1h4a$1...@gioia.aioe.org>, Ragnusen Ultred
> > > <rrag...@ultred.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Luckily for you, in this case you guessed correctly
> > >
> > > i don't guess.
> >
> > I see the cross post has been dropped.
> Um, there weren't ever any cross posts in this thread
> branch.

Check the last responses from Eric Stevens, and my response to him in this
thread just a little earlier today.

> Can't say the same for other branches.

> Note: I set a filter to detect and tag cross posts.
> It makes life in usenet a bit less bothersome.

Yup! he made an OP without the cross post to start the thread on 3/28/2018,
and his next post to this thread at 7:27 PM, right after your response
returns to the cross post.

--

Regards,
Savageduck

[nospam]

In article <p9s4ei$1kqt$1...@gioia.aioe.org>, Ragnusen Ultred

<rrag...@ultred.com> wrote:

>
> > it also won't run on recent versions of windows either.
> >
> > adobe took the activation servers offline because there were no new
> > customers.
>
> *As always nospam is just guessing (again).*

no he isn't.

> To wit, AI CS2 (version 12.0.0) worked just fine, as did Photoshop 9.0 in
> quick tests today on the latest 64-bit Windows 10 Creator's Edition 1709.

what's missing from your claim are the hoops you jumped through to get
it to run, and just because you claim to not have encountered any
problems *yet* doesn't mean you won't in the future.

<https://forums.adobe.com/thread/2124370>
CS2 didnšt even work properly on Windows Vista, especially if itšs a
64 bit version.
...
I'm in the process of trying John's suggestions - again.  I don't
hold out for much success.  We had run CS2 successfully on Windows 7,
but the upgrade to Windows 10 killed us.

<https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/windows_10-other_sett
ings-winpc/windows-10-is-not-compatible-with-adobe/de9dc28d-7c33-447b-93
19-e1d80bd43c85>
I just installed Adobe illustrator CS2, and I found that windows 10
is not fully compatible with the type tool, the font cannot be
changed.  do anyone also have this problem?

[dorayme]

In article <010420181917030694%nos...@nospam.invalid>,

nospam <nos...@nospam.invalid> wrote:

> > Bananas are readily available but they are not generally free. That is
> > why it can be misleading to say they are freely available.
>
> bananas are not software

Another person to be added to the list of all who don't understand
analogies. The pitfalls of being too literal minded!

--
dorayme

[Ron C]

For what it's worth, here's what I'm seeing.
[Cross postings are tagged with an X]
< https://www.dropbox.com/s/48hspudu34wtnq6/Screen%20shot-1.jpg >

Nothing to/from Eric Stevens in that sub-thread.
--

Later...
Ron C
--

[Savageduck]

On Apr 1, 2018, Ron C wrote

(in article<Quidncmeaf05A1zH...@giganews.com>):

Strange, what I see in the screenshot you posted were several Eric Stevens
posts tagged with ZzzzX.

I hadn’t tagged crossposts in Hogwasher, and here are the contributions to
the threadthat I see.

<https://www.dropbox.com/s/ahqj28s6slc4a38/screenshot_286.png>

--

Regards,
Savageduck

[Ron C]

[Ragnusen Ultred]

Am Sun, 01 Apr 2018 22:45:11 -0400, schrieb nospam:

> what's missing from your claim are the hoops you jumped through to get
> it to run,

*Again, you just make everything up, nospam.*
_Hence, you're right no more than is the monkey looking for his bananas._

I realize nopsam is always purposefully unhelpful and that he plays his
incessant silly childish games, but there must be adults on this newsgroup
so I will patiently summarize what the adults on the Windows newsgroup
suggested to test whether Adobe Illustrator could read the PDF with fonts
(it can't) and then how to easily overcome that limitation.

*Tested today on the latest 64-bit Windows 10 Pro, version 1709.*

1. Download, unzip, and install Adobe Illustrator, version 12.0.0.
<https://www.techspot.com/downloads/4948-adobe-creative-suite-free.html>

2. Open the PDF file to swap the default <1> font to Roadgeek 2005 Series B
<http://i.cubeupload.com/M873ot.gif>

3. The next step is to print to vinyl at a size of 12x18 inches.
<https://u.cubeupload.com/Ma3cnk.gif>

If there are adults on this r.p.d newsgroup, may I ask two related
questions (given that I don't have a Mac & I don't have a vinyl-cutout
printer)

Q1: Do you think the ai-format file saved from Adobe Illustrator version
12.0.0 on Windows will be readable by a current version of Mac Adobe
Illustrator?

Q2: Do you know Adobe Illustrator well enough to suggest what steps are
necessary (if any) to print to a vinyl-cutout printer?

--
Please: If you're going to act like a child in responding, just do us all a
favor and don't respond as this question is an on-topic valid question for
someone who has the file at this stage, but no Mac and no vinyl cutout
printer. Only someone technically competent can answer this question.

[nospam]

In article <p9s8tk$1qgm$1...@gioia.aioe.org>, Ragnusen Ultred

<rrag...@ultred.com> wrote:

> Q1: Do you think the ai-format file saved from Adobe Illustrator version
> 12.0.0 on Windows will be readable by a current version of Mac Adobe
> Illustrator?

that's already been answered.

> Q2: Do you know Adobe Illustrator well enough to suggest what steps are
> necessary (if any) to print to a vinyl-cutout printer?

yes i do.

[Ron C]

The section I highlighted in yellow is the SUB-thread you were
responding to. There are no direct links to any cross posted sub-threads
in that section. Just follow the thread link lines in my screen shot.

[Savageduck]

On Apr 1, 2018, Ron C wrote

(in article<cMydnT_TOtK4NFzH...@giganews.com>):

That’s OK, just so you are aware that the “poster with many nyms” will
cross post to disrupt whenever he can, and Eric responded to one of those
cross posts, leaving the OP to wonder where Eric had come from. Eric isn’t
one to lurk in comp.sys.mac.apps.

--

Regards,
Savageduck

[Ragnusen Ultred]

Am Sun, 01 Apr 2018 21:19:10 -0700, schrieb Savageduck:

> Thatÿs OK, just so you are aware that the ´poster with many nyms¡ will

> cross post to disrupt whenever he can, and Eric responded to one of those

> cross posts, leaving the OP to wonder where Eric had come from. Eric isnÿt

> one to lurk in comp.sys.mac.apps.

*Savageduck proves yet again he possesses the mind of a child.*

His own statements prove, beyond any doubt, that Savageduck can't
comprehend that someone would want privacy from header aggregators on the
Internet, where I never hide who I am.

Remember, none of this silly childish crap happens on the *adult*
newsgroups, where I post as frequently, and perhaps even more so, than the
groups that contain the Apple Bigots such as Savageduck always proves
himself to be.

Neither Savageduck, nor nospam, nor anyone else who knows me (as I've been
on Usenet for decades), can't tell in the first sentence who I am, simply
because I don't hide it (and I don't even try).

_Savageduck's own statements *prove* that he has the mind of a child!_

Savageduck can only comprehend the chitchat model on Usenet, which is what
he uses, while I use the Q&A model, which is completely different.

For Savageducks' chitchat model (which many people use), he posts
essentially 95% to other people's threads and only 5% to his own, since
that's what defines the chitchat model.

For the Q&A model, (which I use), I post 95% to threads I opened, and only
5% (if that) to other people's threads, since I'm asking a question and
only seeking the answer (which I always summarize so that the tribal
knowledge is leveraged to all).

BTW, speaking of that, whom do you think *created* the URL for this ng?
http://tinyurl.com/rec-photo-digital

Do you think Savageduck created it?
HINT: He didn't. I did. Years ago. So long ago, it could be a decade for
all I remember. And everyone has leveraged it ever since. Just for like the
iOS, Android, Windows, Linux, etc., newsgroups.

Did Savageduck do *anything* like that for the team?
Hell no. It wouldn't occur to him to do work to help everyone else.

*Back to the Q&A Usenet model that Savageduck so naively decries.*

In the chitchat model that Savageduck uses, WHO you are is far more
important that WHAT you write. That's simply becuase you chit and chat
almost withoutj thinking. You don't prove anything. You don't have to. It's
just idle chitchat (some people call it the "coffeeshop" model).

In the Q&A model that Savageduck *repeatedly* proves he can't possibly
comprehend, WHAT you write is far more important thaN WHO you are.

All that matters in the Q&A model are two things:
1. The subject line
2. The body

That's all you need to ask a question, and then receive answers, and then
test all the viable answers, and to respond to all viable concerns, and
then to summarize the results, where we (almost) *always* solve the
technical problem.

I've been on Usenet for decades, where I've had to explain this to
Savageduck time and again, where Savageduck has the racist attitude that
many people have, which I summarize, pointedly as....

Savageduck thinks as if all Blacks are hoodlums; Savageduck thinks as if
all Jews are greedy; Savageduck thinks as if all Italians are in the mafia;
Savageduck thinks as if all Germans are racist, Savageduck thinks as if all
women are sluts; Savageduck thinks as if all teachers are pedophiles, etc.

The point is to make it clear, yet again, for the umpteenth time to
Savageduck that merely being black doesn't make you a hoodlum; merely being
Jewish doesn't make you greedy; merely being Italian doesn't make you a
mobster; etc.

And merely wanting privacy doesn't make you a troll.

I have had to explain this to Savageduck so many times, that I realized,
years ago, that Savageuck is completely incapable of *comprehending*
anything that adults normally comprehend.

Savageduck clearly exhibits the mind of the classic racists, in that he
accuses people of being what they're not, simply becuase they desire
privacy from automatic header aggregators.

Remember, *none* of this childish crap that Savageduck and the other Apple
Bigots do happens on the adult newsgroups that don't have these Apple
posters on them.

It's only the half-dozen Apple Bigots, where I've already proven many times
that Savageduck is one of them. Sadly to say.

Hence...
*Savageduck yet again proves he possesses the mind of a child.*

[Savageduck]

On Apr 1, 2018, Ragnusen Ultred wrote
(in article <p9sghe$4lf$1...@gioia.aioe.org>):

> Am Sun, 01 Apr 2018 21:19:10 -0700, schrieb Savageduck:
>

> > That�s OK, just so you are aware that the �poster with many nyms� will

> > cross post to disrupt whenever he can, and Eric responded to one of those

> > cross posts, leaving the OP to wonder where Eric had come from. Eric isn�t

> > one to lurk in comp.sys.mac.apps.
>
> *Savageduck proves yet again he possesses the mind of a child.*

Rant snipped.

...and there the ‘poster with many nyms’ goes with his typical insulting
diatribe.

I attempted to give him the benefit of doubt with my first response to his
original query in this thread (the second one I believe), and he certainly
did not respond to that because it did not suit him to do so.

So the time has come to KF himin r.p.d. as I have done in the Mac, and iOS
NGs, where I only see his psychotic musings in the responses of others.

--

Regards,
Savageduck

[Your Name]

With the spreading of banana disease, bananas may not be readily
available much longer.

[Ragnusen Ultred]

Am Wed, 28 Mar 2018 20:07:22 -0700, schrieb Ragnusen Ultred:

> 1. Can Mac Adobe Illustrator read in a PowerPoint file from Windows?
> 2. If yes, can't it get the font out of the embedded font in the PPT file?

SOLVED:

Thanks for all your help, particularly from Paul, Neill, J. P. Gilliver
(John), Jonathan N. Little, & Char Jackson on the Windows newsgroups.

To give back to the team, here is a first-pass solution that can be
leveraged to others in the future via the tribal knowledge archives at
http://tinyurl.com/alt-comp-os-windows-10
<http://www.pcbanter.net/showthread.php?t=1103517>
http://tinyurl.com/alt-windows7-general
<http://www.pcbanter.net/showthread.php?t=1103524>

This thread basically went nowhere mainly because Apple posters were
involved, but one or two people were helpful so it bears mention:
http://tinyurl.com/rec-photo-digital
<https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/rec.photo.digital/zdVFRNwhdA8>
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
SUMMARY: (sufficient to understand the main steps)
a. Install desired roadsign fonts (includes arrows, graphics, & text)
b. Install desired software (Microsoft Office & Adobe Illustrator)
c. Obtain desired 12x18-inch sign template
d. Modify template as desired by a score of different people on their PCs
e. Combine those modifications into a single file
f. Output PDF with embedded fonts from that file
g. Read that embedded-font PDF into Adobe Illustrator
h. Substitute the roadsign system fonts where necessary
i. Print to a vinyl-cutting 12"x18" sign printer
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
DETAILS: (sufficient for anyone to reproduce)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
0. The test case is a powerpoint file expected to be provided as a
single-page
template to edited by more than a score of individuals, each of whom
owns
Microsoft Office and knows how to use it where all were instructed to
modify the template text and graphics as they see fit, with the
exception
that the bottom (legal) line and outside border and black color must
remain intact for consistency.
https://u.cubeupload.com/pK8NQE.gif

Those score of individual pages were to be assembled into one large
multi-page file, which is to be provided to the printers who will print
to vinyl using Mac Adobe Illustrator, and who will apply the vinyl to
precut pre-drilled white aluminum 12-inch by 18-inch road sign blanks.

Note that the entire font set is embedded in the PowerPoint file
which allows the users to add approved arrows, text, & other graphics:
http://www27.zippyshare.com/v/H5GDdHA1/file.html (signs.pptx)

Note that the entire font set is also embedded in the PDF file:
http://www27.zippyshare.com/v/abXkQMAN/file.html (signs.pdf)

Where the PDF file is what will be input into Adobe Illustrator
(because Adobe Illustrator does not accept Powerpoint files):

http://blog.globalizationpartners.com/using-pdf-in-illustrator-when-source-files-are-lost.aspx>

Note also that the Office 2007 file is sized at 12-inches by 18-inches:
OfficeRibbon > Design > Page Setup > Width=12 inches, Height=18 inches
http://i.cubeupload.com/mALZ03.gif

This will result in the same size of 12x18 inches in Adobe Illustrator:
http://i.cubeupload.com/Ma3cnk.gif
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
1. Obtain & install the "Roadgeek 2005 Series B" font set.
http://www.fontspace.com/michael-d-adams/roadgeek-2005/

Note: The only font file in that set you need is the 44KB file:
"Roadgeek 2005 Series B.ttf"

See the appendix for Windows font-installation procedures.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
2. Obtain & install the MS Office 2007 "Save as PDF or XPS" utility.

2007 Microsoft Office Add-in: Microsoft Save as PDF or XPS
https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/download/details.aspx?id=7

Just run the SaveAsPDFandXPS.exe after installing Office 2007.
Note: Microsoft has discontinued support so you may need to use
a wayback link to find this (or a previously archived file).
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
3. Download the 4 files from:
https://www.techspot.com/downloads/4948-adobe-creative-suite-free.html
-----
Name: CreativeSuiteCS2Disc1.exe
Size: 375638402 bytes (358 MB)
SHA256: 36DACE2549BDE94D7A45281380EEF453FD2AF38EDA19348FA3DE567549A696EC
SHA1: 1538166046E59DB6098F75C3196E84AD9310DEA1
-----
Name: CreativeSuiteCS2Disc2.exe
Size: 427451410 bytes (407 MB)
SHA256: 5862668CA45C0196777D3D4E2108D0A6F0750F6965769CB5730944D3520DBB54
Size: 427451410 bytes (407 MB)
SHA1: D06911267603474B43F3F39E4B00029787173962
-----
Name: CreativeSuiteCS2Disc3.exe
Size: 346373903 bytes (330 MB)
SHA256: C662F1C431FAA33160523545FDA3BD58F29ED3616CB8E6D1835CCE810AD5AB30
SHA1: 54BA48723D657E4A86903ED2C876381488C8F945
-----
Name: CS_2.0_WWE_Extras_1.exe
Size: 431237012 bytes (411 MB)
SHA256: 921402DA55BFEF5E6E21DE2261F725FFE0A451153F453000FB3152635E1161BE
SHA1: 1C6CC05D49244ED1417B3E2C3136D4FD0B7F57E0
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
4. Unpack by right clicking & selecting 7Zip unpack to (choose the
default):
-----
CreativeSuiteCS2Disc1.exe unpacks with 7Zip to
.\CreativeSuiteCS2Disc1\Adobe Creative Suite 2.0\.
.\CreativeSuiteCS2Disc1\Design Guide.pdf
.\CreativeSuiteCS2Disc1\How To Install.html
.\CreativeSuiteCS2Disc1\How to Uninstall.pdf
.\CreativeSuiteCS2Disc1\Read Me First.html
-----
CreativeSuiteCS2Disc2.exe unpacks with 7Zip to
.\CreativeSuiteCS2Disc2\Adobe InDesign CS2\.
.\CreativeSuiteCS2Disc2\Adobe Version Cue CS2\.
-----
CreativeSuiteCS2Disc3.exe unpacks with 7Zip to
.\CreativeSuiteCS2Disc3\Adobe Creative Suite 2.0\.
-----
CS_2.0_WWE_Extras_1.exe unpacks with 7Zip to
.\CS_2.0_WWE_Extras_1\Adobe Solutions Network\.
.\CS_2.0_WWE_Extras_1\Documentation\.
.\CS_2.0_WWE_Extras_1\Goodies\.
.\CS_2.0_WWE_Extras_1\Technical Information\.

Most people will likely just doubleclick on the downloaded files to
unpack:
CreativeSuiteCS2Disc1.exe
CreativeSuiteCS2Disc2.exe
CreativeSuiteCS2Disc3.exe
CS_2.0_WWE_Extras_1.exe
But I right clicked and selected the 7Zip unpacker to unpack them,
because doubleclicking on them creates folders in your root hierarchy,
and I wanted to keep all the folders in the location I keep installers.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
5. Combine all files and directories into a single directory:
(Put all the folders should be in the same folder as Setup.exe is!)
.\CreativeSuite\CS2\Adobe Creative Suite 2.0\Setup.exe
(Otherwise you'll get incessant prompts for CD 2!)

These are the 4 main folders to ensure are in the same location:
.\Adobe Creative Suite 2.0\Setup.exe
.\Adobe Creative Suite 2.0\Adobe Illustrator CS2\.
.\Adobe Creative Suite 2.0\Adobe Photoshop CS2\.
.\Adobe Creative Suite 2.0\Adobe InDesign CS2\.
.\Adobe Creative Suite 2.0\Adobe Version Cue CS2\.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
6. Run the "Setup.exe" installer for the Adobe Create Suite 2 set:
Tested on Windows 10 Pro, version 1709.
.\CreativeSuite\CS2\Adobe Creative Suite 2.0\Setup.exe
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
7. You'll get a warning that "QuickTime 6 is required to use the
multimedia features in the Adobe Creative Suite 2", which you
can ignore.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
8. Then it will require a Name (default = "Windows User") & serial number.
Name: Windows user
Company: blank
Serial Number 1130 1414 7569 4457 6613 5551
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
9. It will default to C:\Program Files (x86)\Adobe
It says it will use up 2.62GB
I put mine in C:\app\editor\pic\cs2
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
10. There will be a choice of what components to install:
[x] Adobe Illustrator CS2 (600MB)
[x] Adobe InDesign CS2 (400MB)
[x] Adobe Photoshop CS2 and Adobe ImageReady CS2 (450MB)
[x] Adobe Version Cue CS2 (300MB)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
11. Note: If you don't put all the folders in the same directory,
it will start installing and then ask:
"Please insert CD 2 to continue installation"
where if you hit the "OK" button, it will ask forever
for that CD 2.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
12. If you need to re-run the installer, don't worry.
After you doubleclick again on "Setup.exe",
Up pops an option to "Change/Remove the Adobe Creative Suite 2"
with the two options:
(_) Install, Re-install, or Uninstall Individual Adobe CS2 Components
(o) Uninstall all Adobe Creative Suite 2 Components

You can just switch that default to:
(0) Install, Re-install, or Uninstall Individual Adobe CS2 Components
(_) Uninstall all Adobe Creative Suite 2 Components
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
13. At that time, a form came up to "Change Individual Components", saying:
Please select the components of the Adobe Creative Suite 2 to modify.
Adobe Illustrator CS2 (600MB)
Adobe InDesign CS2 (400MB)
Adobe Photoshop CS2 & Adobe ImageReady CS2 (450MB)
Adobe Version Cue CS2 (300MB)

Where your 3 possible choices for each item are:
[No Change - Not Installed] or [Install] or [Re-Install]
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
14. You won't get any desktop shortcuts, so you need to look for the
executables of interest to make shortcuts to them for all but
Adobe Illustrator which will have a shortcut created for you.

Adobe Illustrator CS2 (600MB)
C:\editor\app\pic\cs2\Adobe Illustrator CS2\Adobe Illustrator CS2.lnk
Right clicking on the shortcut to select properties shows:
Target: "C:\app\editor\pic\cs2\Adobe Illustrator CS2\Support
Files\Contents\Windows\Illustrator.exe
Open In: "c:\app\editor\pic\cs2\Adobe Illustrator CS2\Support
Files\Contents\Windows\"

Adobe InDesign CS2 (400MB)
"C:\app\editor\pic\cs2\Adobe InDesign CS2\InDesign.exe"

Adobe Photoshop CS2 & Adobe ImageReady CS2 (450MB)
"C:\editor\app\pic\cs2\Adobe Photoshop CS2\Photoshop.exe"

Adobe Version Cue CS2 (300MB)
"C:\app\editor\pic\cs2\Adobe Version Cue CS2\bin\VersionCueCS2.exe"
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
15. I started Adobe Illustrator 12.0.0 on Windows 10 Creator's Edition.
C:\editor\app\pic\cs2\Adobe Illustrator CS2\Adobe Illustrator CS2.lnk
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
16. To edit the PDF file that was output from PowerPoint 2007, which
used only the RoadGeek TrueType font and had the entire font set
embedded, run this command in Adobe Illustrator:
AI: File > Open > signs.pdf
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
17. You'll get the following message, to which you click "OK":
The document contains PDF objects that have been reinterpreted.
The font 1 is missing.
Affected text will be displayed using a substitute font.
http://i.cubeupload.com/cV87Aa.gif

This pretty much proves that Adobe Illustrator doesn't respect the
fonts which Windows PowerPoint 2007 embedded in the PDF file.
<http://i.cubeupload.com/cV87Aa.gif>

Note that you see the word "Strokes" in the GUI:
http://i.cubeupload.com/DaYBLG.gif
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
18. To "Find and replace the missing font in Adobe Illustrator",
AI: Type > Find Font
And then change the "Document" to "System" where AI asks:
Fonts in Document: <1*>
Change from: Replace with Font From: [Document]
Change to: Replace with Font From: [System]

Then change the font from: <1*>
Then change the font to: Roadgeek 2005 Series B
As shown below before I select the Roadgeek font out .
http://i.cubeupload.com/K6cBu8.gif

Then hit "Change All" and then "Done".

Which results in the perfectly faithful result after selecting
the Roadgeek font.
http://i.cubeupload.com/CnFAUN.gif
https://u.cubeupload.com/M873ot.gif

And the fantastically beautiful result after I select the Roadgeek font.
http://i.cubeupload.com/CnFAUN.gif

In short, I am *confused* about that first step whether "strokes"
(whatever they are) are involved, but it doesn't matter because I can
substitute in the Roadgeek font and then it looks fantastically perfect
in
the Roadgeek-font layout!
http://i.cubeupload.com/RHsHn5.gif

Note: This file is needed in the Windows System Font folder:
"Roadgeek 2005 Series B.ttf"
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
19. Save the file as an Adobe AI-format file for use in AI on the Mac.

Note: AI-format files do not seem to "embed" fonts.

In Adobe Illustrator, save the file as a Windows "ai" format file.

AI: File > Save As > Adobe Illustrator (*.AI) > signs.ai

A dialog box comes up to which you can say OK:
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
20. Save the file as an Adobe PDF-format file for use in AI on the Mac.
Note: The Adobe Illustrator PDF also do not seem to "embed" fonts.

In Adobe Illustrator, save the file as a Windows "ai" format file.

AI: File > Save As > Adobe PDF (*.PDF) > signs_ai.pdf
http://i.cubeupload.com/20nlCB.gif

A dialog box comes up to which you can say OK:
http://i.cubeupload.com/4EuM07.gif

There are many options, one of which is "Advanced" which said "Fonts":
"Subset fonts when percent of characters used is less than 100%"
whatever that means, but then it also said, below that in small print:
*"All fonts with appropriate permission bits will be embedded"*
http://i.cubeupload.com/p7qEWG.gif

So, you'd _think_ the fonts are embedded given that there are no
restrictions noted on the download site that are relevant.

However, if you subsequently *delete* the associated Roadgeek
Windows System Fonts and re-load the PDF into Adobe Illustrator,
it will complain about the missing fonts.

"Font Problems: Roadgeek2005SeriesB: Default font substituted
for missing font. This document "signs.pdf" uses fonts or
characters which are not available or are in a different format
than originally specified. Do you still wish to open this document?"
http://i.cubeupload.com/SdNyIh.gif

When you open it, you don't have your fonts anymore:
http://i.cubeupload.com/wHCGuc.gif
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
21. At this point, you want to look at what formats you can export that
will have the font 'embedded' in them.

The "AI: File > Export" options don't look promising:
This list is:
AutoCAD Drawing (*.DWG)
AutoCAD Interchange File (*.DXF)
BMP (*.BMP)
Enhanced Metafile (*.EMF)
JPEG (*.JPG)
Macintosh PICT (*.PCT)
Macromedia Flash (*.SWF)
Photoshop (*.PSD)
PNG (*.PNG)
Targa (*.TGA)
Text Format (*.TXT)

As shown below:
http://i.cubeupload.com/tunL4e.gif
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
How to install the RoadGeek font set in Windows 10 Pro System Font folder:

0. Starting with this PowerPoint file:
http://www27.zippyshare.com/v/H5GDdHA1/file.html (signs.pptx)

1. Which has, embedded in it, these Roadgeek 2005 Series B TT fonts:
http://www.fontspace.com/michael-d-adams/roadgeek-2005

2. Anyone on Windows can see & edit the file with those fonts in MS Office:
http://i.cubeupload.com/1uNFmZ.gif

Because Windows Microsoft Office "understands" those embedded fonts,
arrows, and other roadsign symbols.

Note: Mac Microsoft Office will *not* understand Windows-embedded fonts.

3. That "Roadgeek 2005 Series B" set is also embedded in the output PDF.
http://i.cubeupload.com/FwghPH.gif
http://www27.zippyshare.com/v/abXkQMAN/file.html (signs.pdf)

4. When I read that PDF into Adobe Illustrator, AI doesn't see the font.
http://i.cubeupload.com/qIAOAL.gif

5. When I try to switch fonts, AI doesn't see that font anywhere.
http://i.cubeupload.com/qIAOAL.gif

6. When I go into the Windows Font directory, it's not there either.
http://i.cubeupload.com/6XxE7P.gif

7. So I downloaded the zip file from the Internet of the free RoadGeek
fonts.
http://www.fontspace.com/michael-d-adams/roadgeek-2005/

8. I extracted that zip file to the following set of files.
http://i.cubeupload.com/UU5aCL.gif

9. I copied and pasted those extracted files to the Win10 Fonts folder.
http://i.cubeupload.com/6twBO9.gif

10. That copy and paste resulted in the fonts showing up in that folder.
http://i.cubeupload.com/PnUglo.gif

11. Then Adobe Illustrator was able to finally "see" that font.
http://i.cubeupload.com/gBNu1P.gif

12. With the result being that the AI file is the same now as the original.
http://i.cubeupload.com/20nlCB.gif

Note: If you are reading in the PDF for the first time into AI,
then you will need to run the following additional
font-substitution steps:

A. This is what AI says when it reads in the Powerpoint-saved PDF:
The document contains PDF objects that have been reinterpreted.
The font 1 is missing.
Affected text will be displayed using a substitute font.

So on the one hand, that implies a *font* was substituted ...
http://i.cubeupload.com/cV87Aa.gif

B. However, on the other hand, I do see "strokes" listed in the GUI.
http://i.cubeupload.com/DaYBLG.gif

C. So it's confusing whether fonts or strokes are initially used, but
it does seem that the font is substituted when I run the command:
AI: Type > Find Font
as shown below before I select the Roadgeek font.
http://i.cubeupload.com/K6cBu8.gif

D. And the fantastically beautiful result after I select the Roadgeek font.
http://i.cubeupload.com/CnFAUN.gif

E. In short, I am *confused* about that first step whether "strokes"
(whatever they are) are involved, but it doesn't matter because I can
substitute in the Roadgeek font and then it looks perfect in
the Roadgeek-font layout!
http://i.cubeupload.com/RHsHn5.gif
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Ragnusen Ultred]

Am Sun, 01 Apr 2018 23:20:03 -0700, schrieb Savageduck:

> Rant snipped.
>
> ...and there the ¡poster with many nyms¢ goes with his typical insulting
> diatribe.
>
> I attempted to give him the benefit of doubt with my first response to his
> original query in this thread (the second one I believe), and he certainly
> did not respond to that because it did not suit him to do so.
>
> So the time has come to KF himin r.p.d. as I have done in the Mac, and iOS
> NGs, where I only see his psychotic musings in the responses of others.

Savageduck,

*When you act like an adult, you won't be told you act like a child.*

You cry now that you acted like an adult momentarily, and then you
immediately fell back into your comfortable ways of acting like a child.

When you acted like an adult acts, you didn't hear me say a word.

I simply called you a child for the act that was that of a child.

*We have dealt with your childish crybaby racist crap for years.*

You seem to think that because you actually act like an adult once in this
thread and then you act like the child the rest of the time, that you are
immune to being called out on the fact that you act like a child acts.

It doesn't work that way Savageduck.

When you act like an adult, we'll know (yes, I noticed).
When you act like a child, we'll know that too.

You can't cry now that because you acted like a adult in one post *before*
you fell back into your old ways of acting like a child, that we shouldn't
call you out on that.

*When you act like an adult, you won't be told you act like a child.*

[sms]

On 3/28/2018 8:07 PM, Ragnusen Ultred wrote:
> Can Mac Adobe Illustrator read in a Microsoft PowerPoint & with fonts?
>
> I have someone making signs for me on a vinyl style printer where she says
> she can't read in the Microsoft Powerpoint and fonts, even though I've
> embedded the entire truetype set (not just what's used in the document) in
> the PowerPoint file.
>
> I don't have a Mac nor Adobe Illustrator to test it out, but can't
> Illustrator just read in the PowerPoint file with the fonts?
>
> She says it can't do either, so she has to re-create the sign from a JPEG
> which seems pretty ridiculous to me but I don't know the technology at all
> since I have never done it.
>
> It's basically two question:

> 1. Can Mac Adobe Illustrator read in a PowerPoint file from Windows?
> 2. If yes, can't it get the font out of the embedded font in the PPT file?

When I send signs out to be made I just print the file out to a
high-resolution JPEG in the same ratio of height and width that I want.

I have been using Visio to make signs, which exports directly to a JPEG
in whatever resolution you specify.

There is also PDFcreator which will print to a JPEG from any program
<http://download.cnet.com/PDFCreator/3000-18497_4-10558866.html>.

I was running into similar problems with fonts from other programs not
transferring, I didn't realize that it was probably due to the person on
the other end using a Mac. I think that they preferred a camera ready
JPEG anyway.

[nospam]

In article <p9tctf$uen$1...@dont-email.me>, sms

<scharf...@geemail.com> wrote:

> When I send signs out to be made I just print the file out to a
> high-resolution JPEG in the same ratio of height and width that I want.

that will not produce the best results.

> I was running into similar problems with fonts from other programs not
> transferring, I didn't realize that it was probably due to the person on
> the other end using a Mac.

it's not the mac that was the problem. whatever software you were using
is at fault.

> I think that they preferred a camera ready
> JPEG anyway.

they might accept a jpeg, but they certainly don't prefer that for
signs.

[Ragnusen Ultred]

Am Mon, 2 Apr 2018 06:58:06 -0700, schrieb sms:

> When I send signs out to be made I just print the file out to a
> high-resolution JPEG in the same ratio of height and width that I want.
>
> I have been using Visio to make signs, which exports directly to a JPEG
> in whatever resolution you specify.
>
> There is also PDFcreator which will print to a JPEG from any program
> <http://download.cnet.com/PDFCreator/3000-18497_4-10558866.html>.
>
> I was running into similar problems with fonts from other programs not
> transferring, I didn't realize that it was probably due to the person on
> the other end using a Mac. I think that they preferred a camera ready
> JPEG anyway.

Hi sms,

You know me well so you know I only speak fact.

You bring up a reasonable point that the *fonts* are part of the problem,
where we *SOLVED* this issue quite easily, with help from technically
competent purposefully helpful people.

A JPEG, as you suggest, certainly will "work" just as almost anything will
work (even scribbling the design on the back of a napkin will suffice); so
if a BMP or JPEG or GIF is all that you have, then it's fine.

But we found a perfect solution which solves the actual endpoint problems
that we had, which were out of my control, namely:
1. A score of people had to work on the file (without installing fonts!)
2. The shop is on Adobe Illustrator (which can't read embedded fonts!)

We had an additional "psychological" issue with the shop (which is a bunch
of high-school kids), in that they were "pretending" there was a "layout"
effort, when we proved during the course of the thread on the adult
newsgroups that there is none.

Here is an email we recently received from the manager of that shop in
response to my question of why they use Mac Adobe Illustrator:
"The Vinyl Cutter uses a cut extension through Adobe Illustrator,
thus the need to format the art through Illustrator.
We program what is cut through Illustrator.
Your pdf files will work fine. I have to install the fonts
you gave, which is no big deal. Changing the fonts so that
the cut is easy. No new layout work will need to be done."

Given that the two starting points are perfect for the situation:
1. PowerPoint is the *perfect* layout tool for a score of people who don't
want to and don't need to deal with fonts, and,
2. Adobe Illustrator on the Mac is the end point for just as practical a
reason.

The greatest news is that, on the Windows ng, we proved one powerful thing!
*There is almost zero manual layout effort*!

The only manual "layout effort" required is the minute it takes to download
and install the font set into the Mac and then to point to the Roadgeek
2005 Series B font once the PDF is opened in Adobe Illustrator.

That there is zero layout effort is a big deal, because it tells us both
that PowerPoint was the *perfect* input format (since nobody had to install
fonts and everyone had it and everyone knew how to use it), and that the
shop was handing us mush for an explanation, much like nopspam constantly
does.

Once I showed the shop that there was zero manual layout involved, the shop
finally admitted the truth (much like how nospam works).

Until they admitted truth, for them to claim manual layout meant:
a. Either they were incredibly stupid, or,
b. They were being duplicitious.

The reason I know that is the same reason I know that nospam is always that
way, which is that it's a simple fact that zero manual layout is needed if
we hand them the PowerPoint-created PDF.

The *only* manual layout needed is to load the fonts into the system and
point the Adobe Illustrator to that Roadgeek 2005 Series B font. On the
Windows newsgroup, we proved this fact beyond a shadow of a doubt.

Now all the obtuse explanations make complete sense.
They were acting like nospam does.

Aside from the fact they admitted last night they were telling us a fib
(but only when we proved it first), there's another astoundingly huge
takeaway from this process, which is that PowerPoint is the absolutely
*perfect* tool for this job, not only because we have a score of people
editing the same file, but because that file can have the fonts *embedded*
(which is something Adobe Illustrator can't do!).

So, there are two huge takeaways that we learned in this solution.

1. PowerPoint is the *best* format possible for the layout task, and,
2. Adobe Illustrator has almost literally zero manual layout required!

A "gotcha" in that process is that you have to accept that while embedding
fonts in Windows MS Office documents provides a *huge* advantage for us
(luckily, nobody was on the Mac or they would have found that the process
fails miserably on MS Office on the Mac!) - that embedding is *not*
respected by Adobe Illustrator on either Windows or the Mac.

Luckily, the only two people (actually three) who need to know that are:
A. The person who created the PowerPoint needed to embed the font set.
B. The shop using Adobe Illustrator needs to install the font set.
C. Any homeowner on the Mac would also be forced to install the font set
(where, luckily, we didn't run into this Mac-only extra problem because the
score of people are all on Windows MS Office).

Thanks for all the adult help to arrive at that simple, and yet powerful
factually supported conclusion, where I thank everyone for being an adult,
and especially Paul for enabling the empirically derived solution by his
diligent and always-purposefully-helpful research and experiments.

Thanks!

None of this is intuitive; it takes someone with technical experience to
answer even these simple question, which, at this point, are all resolved!

A. The shop wasn't telling the truth... (which they admitted last night)...
B. PowerPoint is the absolutely *fantastic* choice for this layout task...
C. A PowerPoint-created PDF is also *perfect* for the final transfer task...
C. Adobe Illustrator requires *zero* manual layout effort reading that PDF....
D. The only manual task is due to the inability of Adobe Illustrator to
understand the embedded fonts in the incoming PDF document.

[nospam]

In article <p9tocr$8sh$1...@gioia.aioe.org>, Ragnusen Ultred

<rrag...@ultred.com> wrote:

> But we found a perfect solution which solves the actual endpoint problems
> that we had, which were out of my control, namely:
> 1. A score of people had to work on the file (without installing fonts!)

and they haven't a clue what they're doing.

> 2. The shop is on Adobe Illustrator (which can't read embedded fonts!)

illustrator most certainly can read embedded fonts.

it might not be able to read the crap you are supplying but that's
because you have no idea what you're doing and creating non-standard
pdfs, not a flaw in illustrator.

in other words, user error.

> We had an additional "psychological" issue with the shop (which is a bunch
> of high-school kids), in that they were "pretending" there was a "layout"
> effort, when we proved during the course of the thread on the adult
> newsgroups that there is none.

they weren't pretending.
they know way more about how to do it correctly than you ever will.

> Given that the two starting points are perfect for the situation:
> 1. PowerPoint is the *perfect* layout tool for a score of people who don't
> want to and don't need to deal with fonts, and,

you just said it wasn't a layout effort. now you say it is. further
proof you have *no* idea what you're even doing.

not only that, but powerpoint is *not* a layout app and one key reason
you're having so much trouble.

> 2. Adobe Illustrator on the Mac is the end point for just as practical a
> reason.

that reason being that illustrator is designed to do what you claim to
want to do and does it quite well.

as i said before, even an inexperienced graphics artist could have done
the entire task it in a couple of minutes, and with much better results
too.

[David B.]

On 02/04/2018 09:27, Ragnusen Ultred tried to highlight a sentence:-

> *When you act like an adult, you won't be told you act like a child.

That doesn't 'work'.

Moving the asterisk DOES 'work'!

*When you act like an adult, you won't be told you act like a child*.

I hope that helps. :-)

[David B.]

On 02/04/2018 03:13, Ragnusen Ultred tried to highlight this sentence -
and failed.

> *Your credibility on being right on facts is utterly worthless.*

Moving the right-hand side asterisk will improve matters, thus:-

*Your credibility on being right on facts is utterly worthless*.

HTH :-)

[Ragnusen Ultred]

Am Mon, 02 Apr 2018 13:44:21 -0400, schrieb nospam:

> they weren't pretending.
> they know way more about how to do it correctly than you ever will.

Staying on technical track, and being purposefully helpful isn't your
strength, nospam.

Meanwhile, to add on topic purposefully helpful value, I report the
following for the tribal record to archive for future users to benefit.

The shop has instantly been far more responsive now that I provided them
with the Adobe Illustrator file, where they emailed how I could eliminate
the need for them to load the font altogether, which I reproduce below for
the tribal knowledge record to benefit.
"You can embed a font in AI, by turning the font into a shape.
1) Select the font with the black arrow tool.
2) Go to the TYPE drop down menu at the top of the AI app.
3) Select "create outlines".
You would do this as you very last step ... after the layout
was correct and everything was spelled & set up correctly."

I tried it and was successful, where I outline the steps in more detail:

1. I started Windows Adobe Illustrator 12.0.0 (from the CS2 suite)
2. I opened the PDF from PowerPoint into Adobe Illustrator (AI)
3. In AI, I ran "AI: Type > Find Font" to find all the fonts
4. In that form I changed "Document" to "System"

Fonts in Document: <1*>
Change from: Replace with Font From: [Document]
Change to: Replace with Font From: [System]
Then change the font from: <1*>
Then change the font to: Roadgeek 2005 Series B

Then hit "Change All" and then "Done"

5. The Adobe Illustrator layout is now perfectly faithful to the original
6. In AI, I pressed "V" to get into the selection tool.
7. In AI, I pressed "Control+A" to select everything.
8. In AI, I pressed "Control+Shift+O" to create outlines
9. In AI, I pressed "Save As" to saved the *outlined.ai file
10. In AI, I also saved as a PDF to create the *outlined.pdf file
11. I checked with Ai: Type > "Find Fonts"
12. That showed there were no longer any fonts in the document

Voila! No fonts needed. A perfect layout.
No manual layout required whatsoever in Adobe Illustrator.
Just load the file, and print it to vinyl.

Efficiency at last!

[nospam]

In article <p9tveh$ml9$1...@gioia.aioe.org>, Ragnusen Ultred
<rrag...@ultred.com> wrote:

> Efficiency at last!

it's not efficient at all.

efficient is launch illustrator (and not a pirated version), create the
sign and submit it to the print shop.

[Ragnusen Ultred]

Am Mon, 02 Apr 2018 15:17:48 -0400, schrieb nospam:

>> Efficiency at last!
>
> it's not efficient at all.

Notice that you just *guess* nospam, and you guessed wrong.
Again.

I only speak fact which any sentient adult can easily verify.

The efficiency is tremendous - but - as you are aware - you can't get this
functionality on the Mac. The efficiency is only available on Windows.

0. Only one person has to deal with fonts, and that's the creator of the
Windows MS Office document, a screenshot of which is produced here.
<http://i.cubeupload.com/pK8NQE.gif>

*Template Creator*
1. That one template is mailed to a score of neighbors, all of whom are on
Windows, none of whom have to deal with installing fonts. All they need to
do is use the embedded font functionality (not available on the Mac) where
they're instructed to modify anything they want except the bottom line and
the outside border.

Notice that the score of users doesn't have any learning curve whatsoever,
and they can still collaborate (as long as they're not on the Mac)
perfectly efficiently.

*Many People*
2. They each mail an assembler (who happens to be me but it could just as
well have been the original creator) the updates, who assembles them into a
single PPT file with embedded fonts, and then who saves them as a PDF
(since Adobe Illustrator can't read PowerPoint files), where the assembler
hands the shop the final layout.

*Print Shop*
3. The shop reads in the PDF into Mac Adobe Illustrator, substitutes the
default font to the Roadgeek 2005 Series B font, and voila, the layout is
perfect inside of AI, where it can then be printed to the Vinyl Cutter
using a cut extension in Adobe Illustrator.

How can any sentient adult object to this tremendous efficiency?
Only you object to the efficiency.

Why?
I don't know why.

I suspect your objections to efficiency could be as simple as you know
*the Mac doesn't have this collaborative functionality*

[nospam]

In article <p9u2js$sd4$1...@gioia.aioe.org>, Ragnusen Ultred
<rrag...@ultred.com> wrote:

>
> The efficiency is tremendous

it isn't

> - but - as you are aware - you can't get this
> functionality on the Mac. The efficiency is only available on Windows.

nonsense.

[Ragnusen Ultred]

Am Mon, 02 Apr 2018 16:18:15 -0400, schrieb nospam:

>> The efficiency is tremendous
>
> it isn't
>
>> - but - as you are aware - you can't get this
>> functionality on the Mac. The efficiency is only available on Windows.
>
> nonsense.

Again, you can only guess.
And you guessed wrong.

Any sentient adult can follow the efficiency logic of the *facts*.
<http://i.cubeupload.com/pK8NQE.gif>

1. One *Template Creator* works on the original
2. Many *People Collaborate* on faithful copies
3. One *Print Shop* prints the faithful layout

I suspect your objections to efficiency could be as simple as you know what
all Mac owners know, which is that *you just can't do this using the Mac".

[nospam]

In article <p9u3p9$uki$1...@gioia.aioe.org>, Ragnusen Ultred

<rrag...@ultred.com> wrote:

> I suspect your objections to efficiency could be as simple as you know what
> all Mac owners know, which is that *you just can't do this using the Mac".

nonsense. not only can it be done on a mac, but more efficiently with
fewer steps than your clusterfuck solution *and* produce higher quality
results. it can even be done on an ipad or iphone.

you refuse to admit it because: troll.

[Eric Stevens]

On Sun, 01 Apr 2018 19:17:03 -0400, nospam <nos...@nospam.invalid>
wrote:

>In article <4sp2cdpsl3t4llj6d...@4ax.com>, Eric Stevens
><eric.s...@sum.co.nz> wrote:
>
>> >> >> from the freely available Windows version of Adobe Illustrator.
>> >> >
>> >> >illustrator is not free nor has it ever been free.
>> >>
>> >> "freely available" does not mean that it's "free".
>> >>
>> >> It may have been better if Ragnusen Ultred had written "readily
>> >> available".
>> >
>> >no difference.

>>
>> Bananas are readily available but they are not generally free. That is
>> why it can be misleading to say they are freely available.
>
>bananas are not software

They are nouns. So too is 'Adobe illustrator'. My statement was
concerned with the use/misuse of the English language.
>
>> >> >you are pirating it.
>> >>
>> >> Not necessarily.
>> >
>> >yes necessarily.
>>
>> Even if he already has a license?
>
>he doesn't and you know it.

I've ploughed through much of his junk and found nothing to suggest
that he has a copy of Illustrator, let alone that he has pirated it.
As far as I can tell the discussion is in the general case, in which
case neither the presence or absence of a license can be assumed.
--

Regards,

Eric Stevens

[Eric Stevens]

On Sun, 01 Apr 2018 19:29:16 -0400, nospam <nos...@nospam.invalid>
wrote:

>In article <n6q2cdtkieag6gsh6...@4ax.com>, Eric Stevens

><eric.s...@sum.co.nz> wrote:
>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> from the freely available Windows version of Adobe Illustrator.
>> >>>
>> >>> illustrator is not free nor has it ever been free.
>> >>
>> >> "freely available" does not mean that it's "free".
>> >>
>> >> It may have been better if Ragnusen Ultred had written "readily
>> >> available".
>> >>

>> >>> you are pirating it.
>> >>
>> >> Not necessarily.
>> >

>> >If you're downloading the tweaked versions from Adobe without actually
>> >owning a licence, then yes, you are pirating it. The instructions on
>> >Aodbe's download page specifically say you have to already own a
>> >licence.
>>
>> That was more or less my point. While piracy was probable it is not
>> necessarily piracy in every case. In saying "you are pirating it"
>> nospam had jumped to a conclusion which was not necessarily correct.
>
>nope. i explained that.
>
>the reality is that 'ultred' doesn't have a license and is pirating it.

Is he even using it?
--

Regards,

Eric Stevens

[nospam]

In article <t7i5cd9nio10ojpv7...@4ax.com>, Eric Stevens

<eric.s...@sum.co.nz> wrote:

> >> >> >> from the freely available Windows version of Adobe Illustrator.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >illustrator is not free nor has it ever been free.
> >> >>
> >> >> "freely available" does not mean that it's "free".
> >> >>
> >> >> It may have been better if Ragnusen Ultred had written "readily
> >> >> available".
> >> >
> >> >no difference.
> >>
> >> Bananas are readily available but they are not generally free. That is
> >> why it can be misleading to say they are freely available.
> >
> >bananas are not software
>
> They are nouns.

good point. all nouns are distributed in the same way software is.

another hour or so and my groceries should be finished downloading.

> So too is 'Adobe illustrator'. My statement was
> concerned with the use/misuse of the English language.

as well it should, since you greatly misused it.

> >> >> >you are pirating it.
> >> >>
> >> >> Not necessarily.
> >> >
> >> >yes necessarily.
> >>
> >> Even if he already has a license?
> >
> >he doesn't and you know it.
>
> I've ploughed through much of his junk and found nothing to suggest
> that he has a copy of Illustrator,

exactly the point.

> let alone that he has pirated it.

since it's clear that he never bought cs2, downloading it is pirating
it.

he also has admitted to pirating a wide variety of other stuff, so this
is not any sort of surprise.

> As far as I can tell the discussion is in the general case, in which
> case neither the presence or absence of a license can be assumed.

assumed is the wrong word. no assumptions are necessary.

based on what he's written in this thread and countless others, it's
*quite* clear what he's doing.

[nospam]

In article <ppi5cddo79al2gjl9...@4ax.com>, Eric Stevens

<eric.s...@sum.co.nz> wrote:

> >> >>> you are pirating it.
> >> >>
> >> >> Not necessarily.
> >> >
> >> >If you're downloading the tweaked versions from Adobe without actually
> >> >owning a licence, then yes, you are pirating it. The instructions on
> >> >Aodbe's download page specifically say you have to already own a
> >> >licence.
> >>
> >> That was more or less my point. While piracy was probable it is not
> >> necessarily piracy in every case. In saying "you are pirating it"
> >> nospam had jumped to a conclusion which was not necessarily correct.
> >
> >nope. i explained that.
> >
> >the reality is that 'ultred' doesn't have a license and is pirating it.
>
> Is he even using it?

he claims to have used it, however, that's irrelevant. since he never
bought it in the first place, he is not entitled to legally download
it.

[sms]

The post says that he is creating the sign in Powerpoint and that it
needs to read by Illustrator in the Mac.

I need to dig out my copy of Illustrator which I bought many years ago
at a previous job. I probably used it twice, but I needed to have it for
a specific task. It probably won't even work with WIndows 10.

There are some programs that I've found hard to believe they are still
being used. Corel Draw is the format that many laser cutters require.

[Eric Stevens]

On Mon, 02 Apr 2018 20:39:48 -0400, nospam <nos...@nospam.invalid>
wrote:

>In article <t7i5cd9nio10ojpv7...@4ax.com>, Eric Stevens
><eric.s...@sum.co.nz> wrote:
>
>> >> >> >> from the freely available Windows version of Adobe Illustrator.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >illustrator is not free nor has it ever been free.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> "freely available" does not mean that it's "free".
>> >> >>
>> >> >> It may have been better if Ragnusen Ultred had written "readily
>> >> >> available".
>> >> >
>> >> >no difference.
>> >>
>> >> Bananas are readily available but they are not generally free. That is
>> >> why it can be misleading to say they are freely available.
>> >
>> >bananas are not software
>>
>> They are nouns.
>
>good point. all nouns are distributed in the same way software is.
>
>another hour or so and my groceries should be finished downloading.

The sentence under discussion says nothing about downloading.

>
>> So too is 'Adobe illustrator'. My statement was
>> concerned with the use/misuse of the English language.
>
>as well it should, since you greatly misused it.

This from the guy who thinks that parsing applies only to software.

>
>> >> >> >you are pirating it.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Not necessarily.
>> >> >
>> >> >yes necessarily.
>> >>
>> >> Even if he already has a license?
>> >
>> >he doesn't and you know it.
>>
>> I've ploughed through much of his junk and found nothing to suggest
>> that he has a copy of Illustrator,
>
>exactly the point.

So we don't know either way.

>
>> let alone that he has pirated it.
>
>since it's clear that he never bought cs2, downloading it is pirating
>it.

Has he downloaded it?

>
>he also has admitted to pirating a wide variety of other stuff, so this
>is not any sort of surprise.
>
>> As far as I can tell the discussion is in the general case, in which
>> case neither the presence or absence of a license can be assumed.
>
>assumed is the wrong word. no assumptions are necessary.

Where is your evidence?

>
>based on what he's written in this thread and countless others, it's
>*quite* clear what he's doing.

The clarity is an inference.
--

Regards,

Eric Stevens

[Eric Stevens]

On Mon, 02 Apr 2018 20:39:49 -0400, nospam <nos...@nospam.invalid>
wrote:

That applies to most people.
--

Regards,

Eric Stevens

[Mayayana]

"Eric Stevens" <eric.s...@sum.co.nz> wrote

| >> >the reality is that 'ultred' doesn't have a license and is pirating
it.
| >>
| >> Is he even using it?
| >
| >he claims to have used it, however, that's irrelevant. since he never
| >bought it in the first place, he is not entitled to legally download
| >it.
|
| That applies to most people.

Why are so many people always so quick to
go on a witch hunt when it comes to "pirating"
software? It's not clear what the OP did. It's not
relevant to his question. And the CS2 download
was, indeed, legal for a period of time. I saw the
page when they posted it. They included a legal
ditty that said, specifically, that it was only
legal to use the software if it was obtained
directly from Adobe. That was it.

They gave it away. They said they were giving
it away. They gave away a working key along with
it.

In any retail store, even if it were a mistake,
the store would be expected to honor such an offer.
I'm not convinced it was a mistake. Companies don't
"mistakenly" put together a web site and free
software offer.
They also claimed it was about
a problem with activation servers. It's their responsibility
to operate the servers. If they won't then they should
give it away. The weird way it all went down may have
been an attempt to sidestep that issue. The likes of
Adobe and MS surely don't want a court case about
their responsibilities involved with activation-crippled
software. On the other hand, they'd like to keep milking
software they no longer support.
(When MS started "product activation" with XP they
put out the word that when XP went unsupported they'd
"probably" issue a universal key. But XP turned out to
be popular. MS still don't dare to give it away, lest it
have a resurgence.)

But all that's beside the point. Adobe gave away CS2.
Period.

And no one needs to take my word for it. Look it
up. The articles from the time all say basically the
same thing: Adobe gave it away. Downloads were
extremely numerous. Adobe then backtracked and said,
"Oh. We didn't mean it was free." Then they put
up a page to require getting a "membership" in order
to download. It all looks like a planned marketing
ploy to me. No one using it professionally would
have bothered downloading CS2 at that point. But
it *could* be used as a free trial to get new customers
hooked -- which is a common strategy. And if Adobe
wanted to do such a marketing campaign, how else
could they do it?

So was it marketing? Was it a legal step to get out
of running activation servers? Who knows? But I don't
see the logic in villifying someone who walked past
a supermarket, saw a table full of steaks with a sign
that said, "Free. Help Yourself.", and then took some
steaks. If the supermarket meant they were free only
to people who had already paid for them then the
sign should have said that. And there should have been
a clerk at the table.

It seems to be a quirk of the American psyche that
we love a witch hunt. The mob wants to decide who's
the evil one and pass harsh judgement, so we can be
sure we're safe.

[joe]

On 04/03/2018 07:27 AM, Mayayana wrote:
> "Eric Stevens" <eric.s...@sum.co.nz> wrote
>
> | >> >the reality is that 'ultred' doesn't have a license and is pirating
> it.
> | >>
> | >> Is he even using it?
> | >
> | >he claims to have used it, however, that's irrelevant. since he never
> | >bought it in the first place, he is not entitled to legally download
> | >it.
> |
> | That applies to most people.
>
> Why are so many people always so quick to
> go on a witch hunt when it comes to "pirating"
> software? It's not clear what the OP did. It's not
> relevant to his question. And the CS2 download
> was, indeed, legal for a period of time. I saw the
> page when they posted it. They included a legal
> ditty that said, specifically, that it was only
> legal to use the software if it was obtained
> directly from Adobe. That was it.
>

But, the link provided in this thread was not directly from Adobe.

Therefore, is downloading from the site mentioned in this thread legal?

<snip>

> But all that's beside the point. Adobe gave away CS2.
> Period.

Not without the restriction you show.

<snip>

>
> It seems to be a quirk of the American psyche that
> we love a witch hunt. The mob wants to decide who's
> the evil one and pass harsh judgement, so we can be
> sure we're safe.
>

Or, some people respect the intellectual property of the developers more.


>

[Ragnusen Ultred]

Am Mon, 02 Apr 2018 16:32:57 -0400, schrieb nospam:

> nonsense. not only can it be done on a mac, but more efficiently with
> fewer steps than your clusterfuck solution *and* produce higher quality
> results. it can even be done on an ipad or iphone.

Again, you just guess, nopspam.
And, again, you just guessed wrong.

We're printing a sign, for heavens sake, to vinyl cuts, for heaven's sake.
Get a grip on reality.

Jesus. You are always wrong on everything.
You have no grip on reality.

A 12x18 text sign with borders doesn't need fancy graphics for heaven's
sake. So you yet again show you have zero technical competency whatsoever.

Vector. Raster. Graphics won't make a bit of difference in this
application.

What matters is that a score of people have to edit it, without learning
any new tools, and the single file that they edit has to have the fonts
embedded since the main edit will be text for heaven's sake.

And the Mac just can't do that.

You just guess.
And you guessed wrong. Again.

The monkey and you would be a fair competition to see who finds the
bananas. And the monkey might just beat you, your record on correct facts
is that dismal.

[Ragnusen Ultred]

Am Mon, 2 Apr 2018 19:05:52 -0700, schrieb sms:

> The post says that he is creating the sign in Powerpoint and that it
> needs to read by Illustrator in the Mac.
>
> I need to dig out my copy of Illustrator which I bought many years ago
> at a previous job. I probably used it twice, but I needed to have it for
> a specific task. It probably won't even work with WIndows 10.
>
> There are some programs that I've found hard to believe they are still
> being used. Corel Draw is the format that many laser cutters require.

I only speak fact.

I used the software to learn how it works with respect to fonts.
The software phones home so Adobe knows whatever they want to know.

Will I ever use the software ever again?

Probably not, why would I? I don't need it. I don't want it.
I don't even like it (AI can't even understand embedded fonts for heaven's
sake.)

I have a licensed copy of Adobe Acrobat & Distiller.
Do I ever use that?
I don't even bother installing it anymore - as it's old crap that doesn't
do anything that freeware can't do.

What does the AI software do?
I don't even know. I think it helps you create vector graphics.

Do I ever create vector graphics?
No.

Do I care to create vector graphics?
No.

Hence, here are three facts.
1. I used the software to test our process with respect to font embedding.
2. The software phones home so Adobe knows I did that & that's fine.
3. The software sucks at embedding fonts (it can't do it).
4. So I have no need for the software whatsoever.

Note: Our process remains as it was before the test.
The test was only to get the shop to start telling the truth.

It's sort of like how we have to deal with nospam, or any defense lawyer.
They never tell the truth until you show them the truth.

Summary:
a. The software sucks for the purpose we wanted it for.
b. Hence, it's useless.
c. It phones home so Adobe knows everything.
d. I will likely never use it ever again.
e. But I will also likely leave it on my system as it doesn't break
anything.

What is likely to happen is that it will just sit there forever, unused,
since it serves no useful purpose for me. When I rebuild the computer,
which I do every year or every half year, on average, it won't even go back
on as it would be wasted effort.

Will I delete it?
I could. But there's no technical reason to delete it.
If Adobe wants me, they know me. I already have licenses from them anyway
that have my name and address on them for other products.

The fact is that it was used to test whether AI handled fonts, and it just
sucks at handling fonts (for our purpose). We proved that beyond a shadow
of a doubt.

Is that a licensing issue. Nope.
Is that licensing issue relevant to the *technical* topic of this thread?
Nope.

Q: Why then is the licensing an issue in this technical thread about fonts?
A: Because the Apple Bigots have no technical competency so they quibble
about off-topic issues that are not in the least relevant to the technical
topic.

In short, the Apple posters don't have any technical competency (they
gravitated to the Apple product for that reason alone) so they can't answer
the technical question, so, they make up their own tangential arguments to
argue about.

[Mayayana]

"joe" <no...@domain.invalid> wrote

| But, the link provided in this thread was not directly from Adobe.
|
| Therefore, is downloading from the site mentioned in this thread legal?
|

I wouldn't. They're no longer giving it away,
technically. I also didn't try the download link,
so I don't know whether it goes to Adobe. I
also didn't see where the OP said he got his
copy from there. How do we know he didn't
use the legal download? Or sign up at Adobe?

| > It seems to be a quirk of the American psyche that
| > we love a witch hunt. The mob wants to decide who's
| > the evil one and pass harsh judgement, so we can be
| > sure we're safe.
| >
|
| Or, some people respect the intellectual property of the developers more.
|

You think so? I'm a developer myself. I've written
shareware for about 19 years and used to make
a decent side income from it during the PC craze
of 2000-ish. Very, very, very, very few people pay
for software if they don't have to. When I suggested
a donation I got a handful of nice letters with checks
(8 to be exact), despite 10s of thousands of downloads.
When I started charging I got more payments, but
many, many more people were using "cracks".

Interestingly, the vast majority of people who
paid, even when they could use a foreign credit card
or PayPal, were from small towns in the US, not
urban hipsters. And almost none from foreign
contries. (Though I had 2,500 downloads from
Germany in one evening, not one of them paid.
Another time I had a program on CNet's top 5. I
think the downloads were something like 200K.
Not one paid.)

These days I make it "nagware". I don't want to give
it all away free, since some people have paid for it.
But I also figure that most of the world can't easily
afford software. They may as well be getting some
benefit from mine.

At the other extreme are the big companies that can
enforce payment. They have their own SWAT team to
raid companies, offering fees to whistleblowers, like
the IRS:

http://web.archive.org/web/20090707112937/http://news.cnet.com/2008-1082_3-5065859.html

Companies like Microsoft, Apple and Adobe
are all grossly overcharging because they've managed
to create monoply situations and they have businesses
over a barrel. How do I know they're overcharging?
Because they're among the most profitable companies
in the world and all they do is make software. When
you sell a bestseller book it goes to paperback and gets
cheaper, not more expensive.
Exxon/Mobil has to drill oil wells, run tankers, clean
up spills.... how is it that Exxon/Mobil and Apple are
both near the top in profits? How is it that Apple
managed to collect a $215B tax evasion stash offshore
in the space of 7 years? *Billion!* That's about $30B/year.
And that's only the money they're hiding to cheat on taxes.

https://www.rt.com/business/361668-apple-tax-avoidance-report/

It's only their offshore tax evasion, not their total
profits. And you feel sorry for them? Of course, Apple
do claim to have invented round corners. Should I send them
a royalty when I use sandpaper? Do you suppose poor
Timmy Cook is going hungry because he loves his Apple
flock so much that he lets them abuse him? Somehow
I'm just not convinced of that, despite Cook's histrionics
in the media.

Sharing software was popular years ago, before
online activation, simply because it was so expensive.
Someone paid $300 for Windows, $600 for Photoshop,
maybe $600 for MS Office. The prices are crazy. I
can buy a Windows PC today for $300. Yet it costs
the same to buy a Pro copy of Windows. (The minimum
fee to get a copy I can move to my next computer.)
So naturally people would share their disks. Was that
wrong? If so then why isn't exploiting a monopoly
market wrong?
(Bill Gates famously tried to get his buddy Warren
Buffett to invest in MS, explaining that they get a
"Windows tax" on every PC sold. A can't-lose
proposition. Humorously, apple is now one of Buffet's
favorites.)

There have been numerous articles over the years
about the absurd claims companies make in their EULAs.
Microsoft claim if you use .Net you don't have a right
to criticize it in the media without their permission.
Powerquest, who used to make the only available disk
imaging/partitioning software, said in their EULA that
it was only licensed for a single hard disk! $60 for a
hard disk and $60 for the software to make partitions
on it. It's ridiculous. But it's no joke. Those are legal
claims they're making. And particularly in business, those
claims are enforceable.

I think if we're going to be honest, the truth lies
somewhere in between. It's not right to steal. On
the other hand, the licenses have never been reasonable
or reasonably priced. Software companies cashed in
on a gold rush. They got fat and they're trying to keep
the cash coming. (Thus the recent rental fad.)

A book is also intellectual property. You can borrow
it from the library. You can resell it or give it away.
Most software companies illegally claim you don't have
that right. I'm not going to argue with them. They have
a lot more money and lawyers than I do. But neither
do I feel sorry for them. And I certainly don't feel
someone who downloaded Adobe's giveaway is a
"pirate". To my mind it's a lot like used cars: Both
sides are not being honest and it's difficult to get
a fair deal if you are honest. So how do we judge
which has God on their side?

Meanwhile, this is not a morality court. The topic
is about transferring fonts.

[Ragnusen Ultred]

Am Tue, 3 Apr 2018 08:27:54 -0400, schrieb Mayayana:

> They gave it away. They said they were giving
> it away. They gave away a working key along with
> it.

Hi Mayayana,

Some salient points about this completely-off-topic licensing issue.

1. *This licensing issue is irrelevant* to the technical topic of this
thread (where you'll note that, like any good defense lawyer trying to
muddle the issue, the classic Apple posters are the ones bringing up the
non-technical tangents because they don't have competency on the technical
question.)

2. Adobe knows all about that Windows key which is posted on the techspot
web site in public by a seemingly reputable web site. If Adobe wanted to
kill it, all it would take is a letter from their lawyer and a call to the
local authorities where that web site is hosted.

3. The software phones home so, if Adobe cared, they'd send a letter to my
ISP.

4. The test is over. The software sucks at embedding fonts (it just can't
do it). We will not modify our process one but since the software gives us
zero advantage to improve the process as a PDF with embedded fonts is all
we care about.

Q: So why did we use the software in the first place?
A: To test whether the shop was telling us the truth, and they weren't
telling us the truth (they were being like nospam always is).

Q: Will we use the software?
A: Nope. It doesn't embed fonts. It's no better than PDF for our purposes.

Q: Does the licensing question bear any relevance to the technical
question?
A: Nope. It's only the Apple Apologists who bring up this issue because
they have no technical competence to answer the technical question.

[David B.]

<snip for brevity only>
That a rather sad tale. :-(

It sounds as if you've been doing this alone, rather than with a group
of like-minded folk.

Have you ever considered joining a professional 'team' and earn a living
in a more straight-forward manner?

--
David B.

[nospam]

In article <p9vs1c$n4m$1...@dont-email.me>, Mayayana

<maya...@invalid.nospam> wrote:

> | >> >the reality is that 'ultred' doesn't have a license and is pirating it.
> | >>
> | >> Is he even using it?
> | >
> | >he claims to have used it, however, that's irrelevant. since he never
> | >bought it in the first place, he is not entitled to legally download
> | >it.
> |
> | That applies to most people.
>
> Why are so many people always so quick to
> go on a witch hunt when it comes to "pirating"
> software?

because piracy is illegal.

> It's not clear what the OP did.

oh yes it very definitely is clear.

> It's not
> relevant to his question.

yes it is.

> And the CS2 download
> was, indeed, legal for a period of time.

it was never legal, except for those who *already* *owned* *it*.

> I saw the
> page when they posted it. They included a legal
> ditty that said, specifically, that it was only
> legal to use the software if it was obtained
> directly from Adobe. That was it.

nope. what it said was it was for existing cs2 customers.

> They gave it away. They said they were giving
> it away. They gave away a working key along with
> it.

it was only for those who originally *bought* cs2.

it was *not* worldwide distribution to everyone.

> In any retail store, even if it were a mistake,
> the store would be expected to honor such an offer.
> I'm not convinced it was a mistake. Companies don't
> "mistakenly" put together a web site and free
> software offer.

the only mistake is your understanding.

there was *never* a free software offer.

> They also claimed it was about
> a problem with activation servers. It's their responsibility
> to operate the servers. If they won't then they should
> give it away.

there was no problem with the activation servers.

what they did was turn them off because there were no longer new
customers buying a nearly decade old piece of software that no longer
worked on newer systems, therefore they could not justify keeping them
running. they created a version for *existing* customers (not new ones)
so that they could reinstall it on their existing hardware.

> The weird way it all went down may have
> been an attempt to sidestep that issue. The likes of
> Adobe and MS surely don't want a court case about
> their responsibilities involved with activation-crippled
> software. On the other hand, they'd like to keep milking
> software they no longer support.

nonsense.

> (When MS started "product activation" with XP they
> put out the word that when XP went unsupported they'd
> "probably" issue a universal key. But XP turned out to
> be popular. MS still don't dare to give it away, lest it
> have a resurgence.)

xp is no longer supported.

microsoft did offer a free win10 upgrade.

> But all that's beside the point. Adobe gave away CS2.
> Period.

no they didn't. period.

> And no one needs to take my word for it.

don't worry, nobody is foolish enough to do that.

> Look it
> up. The articles from the time all say basically the
> same thing: Adobe gave it away.

you mean articles like these?
<https://www.forbes.com/sites/adriankingsleyhughes/2013/01/07/download-a
dobe-cs2-applications-for-free/>

Adobe scientist Dov Isaacs clarifies:

On behalf of Adobe Systems Incorporated ...

You have heard wrong! Adobe is absolutely not providing free copies
of CS2!

What is true is that Adobe is terminating the activation servers
for CS2 and that for existing licensed users of CS2 who need to
reinstall their software, copies of CS2 that don't require
activation but do require valid serial numbers are available.
(Special serial numbers are provided on the page for each product
download.) See <http://forums.adobe.com/thread/1114930>.

> Downloads were
> extremely numerous. Adobe then backtracked and said,
> "Oh. We didn't mean it was free." Then they put
> up a page to require getting a "membership" in order
> to download.

that's not what happened.

> It all looks like a planned marketing
> ploy to me.

it wasn't.

> No one using it professionally would
> have bothered downloading CS2 at that point.

only because cs2 was at the time nearly a decade old, 5 versions
outdated and didn't work properly (or at all) on (then) current
systems.

professionals would have been using the current version, which at the
time was cs6 or creative cloud.

> But
> it *could* be used as a free trial to get new customers
> hooked -- which is a common strategy. And if Adobe
> wanted to do such a marketing campaign, how else
> could they do it?

there is no point in offering an obsolete version as a trial version,
one which won't even run properly (or at all).

adobe *does* offer trial versions of *currently* shipping software.

> So was it marketing? Was it a legal step to get out
> of running activation servers? Who knows?

many people know.

just not you.

[nospam]

In article <11n6cd19b60ucqaip...@4ax.com>, Eric Stevens

<eric.s...@sum.co.nz> wrote:

> >> >> Bananas are readily available but they are not generally free. That is
> >> >> why it can be misleading to say they are freely available.
> >> >
> >> >bananas are not software
> >>
> >> They are nouns.
> >
> >good point. all nouns are distributed in the same way software is.
> >
> >another hour or so and my groceries should be finished downloading.
>
> The sentence under discussion says nothing about downloading.

the issue is pirating cs2, no matter how hard you try to twist it into
something else.

> >> So too is 'Adobe illustrator'. My statement was
> >> concerned with the use/misuse of the English language.
> >
> >as well it should, since you greatly misused it.
>
> This from the guy who thinks that parsing applies only to software.

where do i get a hardware parser?

> >> >> >> >you are pirating it.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> Not necessarily.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >yes necessarily.
> >> >>
> >> >> Even if he already has a license?
> >> >
> >> >he doesn't and you know it.
> >>
> >> I've ploughed through much of his junk and found nothing to suggest
> >> that he has a copy of Illustrator,
> >
> >exactly the point.
>
> So we don't know either way.

you might not, but the rest of us certainly know.

> >> let alone that he has pirated it.
> >
> >since it's clear that he never bought cs2, downloading it is pirating
> >it.
>
> Has he downloaded it?

duh.

> >he also has admitted to pirating a wide variety of other stuff, so this
> >is not any sort of surprise.
> >
> >> As far as I can tell the discussion is in the general case, in which
> >> case neither the presence or absence of a license can be assumed.
> >
> >assumed is the wrong word. no assumptions are necessary.
>
> Where is your evidence?

his numerous posts in this thread and others.

> >based on what he's written in this thread and countless others, it's
> >*quite* clear what he's doing.
>
> The clarity is an inference.

not to those who pay attention.

[nospam]

In article <m8n6cd5u3qv3g2q0q...@4ax.com>, Eric Stevens

<eric.s...@sum.co.nz> wrote:

> >> >> >>> you are pirating it.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> Not necessarily.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >If you're downloading the tweaked versions from Adobe without actually
> >> >> >owning a licence, then yes, you are pirating it. The instructions on
> >> >> >Aodbe's download page specifically say you have to already own a
> >> >> >licence.
> >> >>
> >> >> That was more or less my point. While piracy was probable it is not
> >> >> necessarily piracy in every case. In saying "you are pirating it"
> >> >> nospam had jumped to a conclusion which was not necessarily correct.
> >> >
> >> >nope. i explained that.
> >> >
> >> >the reality is that 'ultred' doesn't have a license and is pirating it.
> >>
> >> Is he even using it?
> >
> >he claims to have used it, however, that's irrelevant. since he never
> >bought it in the first place, he is not entitled to legally download
> >it.
>
> That applies to most people.

and?

did you have a point? no.

[nospam]

In article <p9vvau$32l$2...@gioia.aioe.org>, Ragnusen Ultred

<rrag...@ultred.com> wrote:

> Vector. Raster. Graphics won't make a bit of difference in this
> application.

yes it does.

> What matters is that a score of people have to edit it, without learning
> any new tools, and the single file that they edit has to have the fonts
> embedded since the main edit will be text for heaven's sake.
>
> And the Mac just can't do that.

oh yes it can.

[nospam]

In article <pa012b$o02$1...@dont-email.me>, Mayayana

<maya...@invalid.nospam> wrote:

> | But, the link provided in this thread was not directly from Adobe.
> |
> | Therefore, is downloading from the site mentioned in this thread legal?
>
> I wouldn't. They're no longer giving it away,
> technically. I also didn't try the download link,
> so I don't know whether it goes to Adobe. I
> also didn't see where the OP said he got his
> copy from there. How do we know he didn't
> use the legal download? Or sign up at Adobe?

there is no legal download for cs2 except for those who already own cs2
nor was there ever such a download. period. full stop.

> | > It seems to be a quirk of the American psyche that
> | > we love a witch hunt. The mob wants to decide who's
> | > the evil one and pass harsh judgement, so we can be
> | > sure we're safe.
> | >
> |
> | Or, some people respect the intellectual property of the developers more.
>
> You think so? I'm a developer myself. I've written
> shareware for about 19 years and used to make
> a decent side income from it during the PC craze
> of 2000-ish. Very, very, very, very few people pay
> for software if they don't have to. When I suggested
> a donation I got a handful of nice letters with checks
> (8 to be exact), despite 10s of thousands of downloads.
> When I started charging I got more payments, but
> many, many more people were using "cracks".

that could be because your software is garbage.

people are happy to pay for quality products and support the
developers, however, they don't like to pay for crap.

> Companies like Microsoft, Apple and Adobe
> are all grossly overcharging because they've managed
> to create monoply situations and they have businesses
> over a barrel. How do I know they're overcharging?
> Because they're among the most profitable companies
> in the world and all they do is make software. When
> you sell a bestseller book it goes to paperback and gets
> cheaper, not more expensive.

nonsense. being profitable does not mean they're overcharging.

they make stuff a lot of people want to buy.

if they were actually overcharging, sales would be weak to nonexistent
and they would have to slash prices to move dead product.

> Exxon/Mobil has to drill oil wells, run tankers, clean
> up spills.... how is it that Exxon/Mobil and Apple are
> both near the top in profits? How is it that Apple
> managed to collect a $215B tax evasion stash offshore
> in the space of 7 years? *Billion!* That's about $30B/year.
> And that's only the money they're hiding to cheat on taxes.

apple has not evaded paying *any* taxes. apple pays every tax dollar
they owe.

holding money offshore is *not* tax evasion and many companies do it.
it's completely *legal*.

keep in mind that more than half of apple's revenue is from *outside*
the usa.

also keep in mind that apple is the only major company (so far) to
repatriate the money under the new tax code.

> It's only their offshore tax evasion, not their total
> profits. And you feel sorry for them? Of course, Apple
> do claim to have invented round corners. Should I send them
> a royalty when I use sandpaper? Do you suppose poor
> Timmy Cook is going hungry because he loves his Apple
> flock so much that he lets them abuse him? Somehow
> I'm just not convinced of that, despite Cook's histrionics
> in the media.

i see you misunderstand yet another patent.

> Sharing software was popular years ago, before
> online activation, simply because it was so expensive.

in other words, piracy.

> Someone paid $300 for Windows, $600 for Photoshop,
> maybe $600 for MS Office. The prices are crazy.

windows is bundled with computers so people never paid $300 and the
home version was less anyway.

photoshop is professional level software and pays for itself very
quickly. the consumer version of photoshop is under $100.

> I can buy a Windows PC today for $300.

a shitty one, sure.

a decent windows pc suitable for photoshop, video editing, cad, etc.,
will cost a lot more than $300. high end pcs are more than 10x that
price.

in the $300 price range, a chromebook or an ipad is a *much* better
choice.

> Yet it costs
> the same to buy a Pro copy of Windows. (The minimum
> fee to get a copy I can move to my next computer.)
> So naturally people would share their disks. Was that
> wrong? If so then why isn't exploiting a monopoly
> market wrong?

two very, very different things.

> (Bill Gates famously tried to get his buddy Warren
> Buffett to invest in MS, explaining that they get a
> "Windows tax" on every PC sold. A can't-lose
> proposition. Humorously, apple is now one of Buffet's
> favorites.)

buffet likes apple because microsoft dropped the ball and apple is
running with it.

microsoft botched windows 8, windows phone was a complete failure,
ballmer was fired, sinofsky is gone and now myerson is gone.

>
> Meanwhile, this is not a morality court. The topic
> is about transferring fonts.

actually it's about making a street sign in the most convoluted method
possible, using pirated software and likely pirated fonts.

[Lewis]

In message <pa012b$o02$1...@dont-email.me> Mayayana <maya...@invalid.nospam> wrote:
> You think so? I'm a developer myself. I've written
> shareware for about 19 years and used to make
> a decent side income from it during the PC craze
> of 2000-ish. Very, very, very, very few people pay

Very few WINDOWS people, yes.



--
I thought that they were angels, but to my surprise, we climbed aboard
their starship, we headed for the skies.

[RJH]

On 03/04/2018 15:57, nospam wrote:
> In article <pa012b$o02$1...@dont-email.me>, Mayayana
> <maya...@invalid.nospam> wrote:

snip

>
>> Exxon/Mobil has to drill oil wells, run tankers, clean
>> up spills.... how is it that Exxon/Mobil and Apple are
>> both near the top in profits? How is it that Apple
>> managed to collect a $215B tax evasion stash offshore
>> in the space of 7 years? *Billion!* That's about $30B/year.
>> And that's only the money they're hiding to cheat on taxes.
>
> apple has not evaded paying *any* taxes. apple pays every tax dollar
> they owe.
>

I think s/he meant tax *avoidance*. And Apple most certainly does avoid tax.

I would argue, quite successfully, that Apple pays nothing like every
tax dollar they should.


--
Cheers, Rob

[Savageduck]

On Apr 3, 2018, RJH wrote
(in article <pa0g3g$203$1...@dont-email.me>):

Trump set the trend, and almost everybody, including us peons, and Apple pay
more taxes that he does.

--

Regards,
Savageduck

[nospam]

In article <pa0g3g$203$1...@dont-email.me>, RJH <patch...@gmx.com> wrote:

> >> Exxon/Mobil has to drill oil wells, run tankers, clean
> >> up spills.... how is it that Exxon/Mobil and Apple are
> >> both near the top in profits? How is it that Apple
> >> managed to collect a $215B tax evasion stash offshore
> >> in the space of 7 years? *Billion!* That's about $30B/year.
> >> And that's only the money they're hiding to cheat on taxes.
> >
> > apple has not evaded paying *any* taxes. apple pays every tax dollar
> > they owe.
> >
>
> I think s/he meant tax *avoidance*. And Apple most certainly does avoid tax.

no they don't. apple does *not* evade or avoid paying taxes. period.

apple, like other companies as well as individuals, pay the taxes they
owe, however, they *minimize* it to the extent that the tax code
allows. in fact, as a public company, they're legally *obligated* to do
so.

judge learned hand,
<http://intltax.typepad.com/intltax_blog/2009/07/famous-tax-quotes-4-5.h
tml>
Any one may so arrange his affairs that his taxes shall be as low
as possible; he is not bound to choose that pattern which will best
pay the Treasury; there is not even a patriotic duty to increase
one's taxes.
Gregory v. Helvering, 69 F.2d 809, 810 (2d Cir. 1934)

Over and over again courts have said that there is nothing sinister
in so arranging one's affairs as to keep taxes as low as possible.
Everybody does so, rich or poor; and all do right, for nobody owes
any public duty to pay more than the law demands: taxes are enforced
exactions, not voluntary contributions. To demand more in the name of
morals is mere cant.
Commissioner v. Newman, 159 F.2d 848, 851 (2d Cir. 1947) - dissenting
opinion

> I would argue, quite successfully, that Apple pays nothing like every
> tax dollar they should.

you would fail incredibly hard at such an argument.

apple might not pay what *you* think they should but that's very
different.

*you* didn't write the tax code, so what *you* think apple or any other
company should pay is completely irrelevant.

and why single out apple? amazon, who paid nothing compared to the ~11b
that apple paid in fy'17, along with microsoft, facebook, google, cisco
and the rest, all use the tax code to their advantage.

<https://www.foxbusiness.com/markets/amazon-earned-5-6b-in-2017-but-paid-
no-federal-taxes>
Jeff Bezosš sprawling e-commerce giant Amazon reportedly raked in
more than $5.6 billion in U.S. profits in 2017, but despite that, the
company essentially paid $0 in federal income taxes.

[Lewis]

In message <pa0g3g$203$1...@dont-email.me> RJH <patch...@gmx.com> wrote:
> On 03/04/2018 15:57, nospam wrote:
>> In article <pa012b$o02$1...@dont-email.me>, Mayayana
>> <maya...@invalid.nospam> wrote:
> snip
>>
>>> Exxon/Mobil has to drill oil wells, run tankers, clean
>>> up spills.... how is it that Exxon/Mobil and Apple are
>>> both near the top in profits? How is it that Apple
>>> managed to collect a $215B tax evasion stash offshore
>>> in the space of 7 years? *Billion!* That's about $30B/year.
>>> And that's only the money they're hiding to cheat on taxes.
>>
>> apple has not evaded paying *any* taxes. apple pays every tax dollar
>> they owe.

> I think s/he meant tax *avoidance*. And Apple most certainly does avoid tax.

Tax avoidance is a meaningless phrase. EVERYONE avoids taxes. That's why
you file a return, to minimize your tax burden.

> I would argue, quite successfully, that Apple pays nothing like every
> tax dollar they should.

That is a lie, they pay ever dollar they are required to, just like
everyone else.


--
7-Up? What happened to Ups 1-6?

[Mayayana]

"Lewis" <g.k...@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote

| That is a lie, they pay ever dollar they are required to, just like
| everyone else.
|

If you want to split hairs, yes. No one's been
arrested. They avoid bringing it into the country
as a way of evading taxes. I think you know that.
If you don't it's easy enough to find the ugly details.

Though I think I read they were going to bring
some back because of the big corporate tax break.