Q: Shock Troops and Agent of power
Myrdin
troops, since the card represents a non-unique vampire once in play
and Agent of power is a master discipline card. The question is what
discipline do they represent?
I assume by the wording of shock troops that the vampire created gets
the discipline based on the master discipline Card Name, since the
wording on normal master disciplines and Agent of power is so similar
when you play it on a vampire (gain one level of the discipline named
vs. chosen.)
Does that mean that the Shock troops created with Agent of Power get
one level of "Agent of power" discipline, wich does not exist
therefore they are disciplineless 1caps?
Shock Troops, Master, X pool, Archbishop or Cardinal, R , [SW:R]
Master. Requires a ready archbishop or cardinal. Put X Master:
Discipline cards from your hand into play. These cards represent
clanless Sabbat vampires of 1 capacity with those respective
Disciplines and do not count as Master: Discipline cards while in
play. These vampires are not unique, must hunt the turn they are
created, have -1 stealth on all actions and cannot attempt bleeds or
political actions.
Agent of Power, Master, C , [LotN]
Master: Discipline. Trifle. Unique. Put this card on a vampire you
control and choose a Discipline. This vampire gains 1 level of that
Discipline. Burn this card during your discard phase.
Example:
Obfuscate, Master, C , [Jyhad:C, V:TES:C, Sabbat:C, SW:C, FN:PS, CE:C]
Master: Discipline. Put this card on a vampire. This vampire gains one
level of Obfuscate [obf]. Capacity increases by 1: the vampire is one
generation older. Cannot be placed on a vampire with superior
Obfuscate.
floppyzedolfin
> So, basic question. I assume you can play Agent of power with shock
> troops, since the card represents a non-unique vampire once in play
> and Agent of power is a master discipline card. The question is what
> discipline do they represent?
None.
> I assume by the wording of shock troops that the vampire created gets
> the discipline based on the master discipline Card Name, since the
> wording on normal master disciplines and Agent of power is so similar
> when you play it on a vampire (gain one level of the discipline named
> vs. chosen.)
>
> Does that mean that the Shock troops created with Agent of Power get
> one level of "Agent of power" discipline, wich does not exist
> therefore they are disciplineless 1caps?
http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/vtes-rules/message/254?var=1
If the skill card is used as a placeholder to represent something
else, then its
text doesn't apply (including the "unique" part, too). So the Shock
Troops
vampire would simply be a 1-cap Sabbat with no clan and no
Disciplines.
Similarly for the fledging Legion (clanned, appropriately sected).
Myrdin
So, if the cardtext does no longer apply when it is used as a
placeholder, what defines the discipline created? Is it as I assumed
the Card Name?
/Ivan
LSJ
> So, if the cardtext does no longer apply when it is used as a
> placeholder, what defines the discipline created? Is it as I assumed
> the Card Name?
The Discipline cards' texts.
Shock Troops's text applies, and its effect is to examine the
Discipline cards' texts to determine the "respective" Disciplines.
Myrdin
Just for clarification on the actual mechanics I've tried to break
down the flow of the effects to put the cards into play.
Is the actuality of having to make a choice on the discipline make the
schocktroop "no discipline" when playing shock troops with Agent of
power? What is the relevant cardtext that actually triggers this in
the master:discipline card? I assume it is the following:
Agent of Power:
- Master: Discipline.
- Put this card on a vampire you control and choose a Discipline.
(ignored)
- This vampire gains 1 level of that Discipline.
Obfuscate:
- Master: Discipline.
- Put this card on a vampire. (ignored)
- This vampire gains one level of Obfuscate [obf].
I assume it checks that the cards chose are Master:Disciplines (per
default since it's required to play the card), then checks the text
for what discipline is gained. It ignores the text that you need to
put the card on a vampire, thus you never get to make the choice for
the discipline gained in the next part of the card that actually gives
the discipline to the newly created shocktroop?
If this is the case, what is the difference between this and the Bima
ruling with Agent of Power?
Bima, Ally, 1 blood, Followers of Set, U , [LoB]
Ghoul with 2 life. 2 strength, 1 bleed. When this Bima enters play,
move a master: Discipline card to it from your hand or burn this Bima.
The Bima may play cards that require the basic level of that
discipline as a vampire.
/Ivan
LSJ
> Is the actuality of having to make a choice on the discipline make the
> schocktroop "no discipline" when playing shock troops with Agent of
> power? What is the relevant cardtext that actually triggers this in
> the master:discipline card? I assume it is the following:
In the case of Auspex, for example, the text "This vampire gains 1
level of Auspex" clearly identifies Auspex as the Discipline referred
to by Shock Troops' text "respective Discipline".
In the case of Agent of Power, there is no such Discipline.
What is the Discipline of an Auspex card (unplayed, in your hand or
library, or otherwise with not-in-effect card text, as when being used
to represent a minion)?
Auspex
What is the Discipline of an Agent of Power (unplayed, etc. ...)?
None (indeterminate at best, but actually the empty set).
> I assume it checks that the cards chose are Master:Disciplines (per
> default since it's required to play the card), then checks the text
> for what discipline is gained. It ignores the text that you need to
> put the card on a vampire, thus you never get to make the choice for
> the discipline gained in the next part of the card that actually gives
> the discipline to the newly created shocktroop?
No Discipline is chosen, right.
> If this is the case, what is the difference between this and the Bima
> ruling with Agent of Power?
The Discipline card on Bima is in play; it represents itself. It is
not being used to represent something else (like the cards used to
represent minions in the case of Shock Troops).
Similarly, Agent of Power on a Bima is unique (and contestable).
An Agent of Power representing a shock troops minion is not.
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/msg/a86bba154f9fc997