{LSJ} Equipping From Another Minion & NRA
Kushiel
has already been covered and my kung fu was weak.
6.1.3 says:
"To equip with an equipment card currently possessed by one of your
other minions, tap the acting minion (the minion who is attempting to
get the equipment) and announce the equipment card he is getting. More
than one equipment card can be taken from a minion in a single action.
If the action is unsuccessful, the equipment remains where it is."
Presumably, NRA covers this because the "equip from another minion I
control" action is only possible because another minion I control has
the equipment I want to move; ie, the action is based on a card in
play, and therefore not repeatable.
Things get a little blurry for me regarding the "more than one
equipment card can be taken from a minion in a single action," though.
Presumably, I need to declare all of the equipment that's going to be
transferred during the declaration of the action. Does this mean that
all those cards count as an action I can't take again with the same
minion?
Here's an example: Minion A has a Flak Jacket, .44 Magnum and Sport
Bike. Minion B declares the action to go and get all three pieces of
equipment from Minion A, is blocked and plays Majesty at superior. Is
Minion B allowed to declare another action to get some of that
equipment again this turn? All of that equipment?
And another example: Same minion/equipment setup as above, but this
time Minion B declares the action to go and get only the Flak Jacket
and Sport Bike. The action is blocked and Minion B plays Majesty at
superior. Is Minion B now allowed to declare an action to get all three
pieces of equipment? Or, say, the .44 and the Sport Bike?
John Eno
Jason Scott
Found in:
by Googling "equip NRA author:LSJ"
1. Repeat Action rule: No single vampire can repeat an action in a
turn.
This refers to the particular action type. For example, a vampire
which
successfully bleeds its prey via Computer Hacking, then untaps via
Freak
Drive, cannot perform any bleeding action again whatsoever that turn,
regardless of whether or not it is a Computer Hacking action.
Action types defined in the rulebook (6.4, 7, and 19)
These are:
* Bleed
* Hunt
* Employ (Retainer)
* Recruit (Ally)
* Equip
* Transfer Equipment
* Call a vote
* Leave Torpor
* Rescue (from Torpor)
* Diablerize (in Torpor)
2) Actions allowed by action cards that are not covered above.
Every action card is of the "type" of its card name.
Examples: Bum's Rush, Army of Rats (putting into play), Far
Mastery.
3) Actions allowed by cards in play that are not covered by 1).
Each of these is a distinct type per card in play. So each
Haven Uncovered provides a unique action type (to attack the
target vampire), even though the cards have the same name.
Additionally, since any "same action" is of the "same type".
Since actions taken by action cards are the "same" based only
on card name (for purposes of Change of Target and Obedience),
this makes inferior Govern the Unaligned the "same action" as
superior Govern the Unaligned (since they have the same action
card name). Therefore, they are also the same action type.
(Which means that inferior Govern is in two types: "bleed" and
"Govern").
IANLSJ, but I can give this a shot. Trying to equip from another
minion is and equip type action. It's not necessarially an action
based on a card in play, it's an equip action, so you may either equip
from your hand or from another minion once per turn.
Thanks for asking this question, since doing the research for this
question clears up quite a bit in my playgroup.
Jason D. Scott
Prince of Nashville
Jason Scott
> Action types defined in the rulebook (6.4, 7, and 19)
> These are:
> * Bleed
> * Hunt
> * Employ (Retainer)
> * Recruit (Ally)
> * Equip
> * Transfer Equipment
> * Call a vote
> * Leave Torpor
> * Rescue (from Torpor)
> * Diablerize (in Torpor)
*snip*
> IANLSJ, but I can give this a shot. Trying to equip from another
> minion is and equip type action. It's not necessarially an action
> based on a card in play, it's an equip action, so you may either equip
> from your hand or from another minion once per turn.
You know, it really helps if I read everything I decide to cut/paste
before I actually cut/paste. Sorry.
Equip and Transfer Equipment are two different types of actions, so you
may transfer equipment and equip from your hand in the same turn, but
you may not attempt to transfer equipment or equip from your hand
multiple times in the same turn.
Jason D. Scott
Prince of Nashville, TN
gpett...@gmail.com
> *snip*
>
> > Action types defined in the rulebook (6.4, 7, and 19)
> > These are:
> > * Bleed
> > * Hunt
> > * Employ (Retainer)
> > * Recruit (Ally)
> > * Equip
> > * Transfer Equipment
> > * Call a vote
> > * Leave Torpor
> > * Rescue (from Torpor)
> > * Diablerize (in Torpor)*snip*
>
> > IANLSJ, but I can give this a shot. Trying to equip from another
> > minion is and equip type action. It's not necessarially an action
> > based on a card in play, it's an equip action, so you may either equip
> before I actually cut/paste. Sorry.
>
> Equip and Transfer Equipment are two different types of actions, so you
> may transfer equipment and equip from your hand in the same turn, but
> you may not attempt to transfer equipment or equip from your hand
> multiple times in the same turn.
>
> Jason D. Scott
> Prince of Nashville, TN
When Camarilla Edition came out in 2002, they rewrote the NRA rules:
> 6.1.3. Equip (+1 stealth)
> Equipment cards are action cards that give minions special abilities. The equip action has a default +1 stealth.
>
> To equip with an equipment card from your hand, play the card and tap the acting minion. If the action is successful, the equipment card is placed on the minion (and the cost, if any, is paid). If the action is unsuccessful, the card is burned (see Resolve the Action, sec. > 6.2.3). Only one equipment card can be played per action, but there is no limit to the number of equipment cards a minion can have.
>
> To equip with an equipment card currently possessed by one of your other minions, tap the acting minion (the minion who is attempting to get the equipment) and announce the equipment card he is getting. More than one equipment card can be taken from a minion in > a single action. If the action is unsuccessful, the equipment remains where it is.
A minion most certainly *can* equip multiple times in one turn -
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/msg/daad6aa37527fbf3
- as long as they are different actions, i.e. the equipment cards have
different titles. Barring a ruling from LSJ, I would say that Minion B
can only attempt to equip with subset Foo of Minion A's cards once per
turn, but may later attempt to equip with subset Bar later on. In other
words:
> Things get a little blurry for me regarding the "more than one
> equipment card can be taken from a minion in a single action," though.
> Presumably, I need to declare all of the equipment that's going to be
> transferred during the declaration of the action.
Yes.
> Does this mean that all those cards count as an action I can't take again with the same minion?
>
That particular selection of cards.
> Here's an example: Minion A has a Flak Jacket, .44 Magnum and Sport
> Bike. Minion B declares the action to go and get all three pieces of
> equipment from Minion A, is blocked and plays Majesty at superior. Is
> Minion B allowed to declare another action to get some of that
> equipment again this turn?
Yes.
> All of that equipment?
No.
> And another example: Same minion/equipment setup as above, but this
> time Minion B declares the action to go and get only the Flak Jacket
> and Sport Bike. The action is blocked and Minion B plays Majesty at
> superior. Is Minion B now allowed to declare an action to get all three
> pieces of equipment?
Yes.
> Or, say, the .44 and the Sport Bike?
Yes.
--
- Gregory Stuart Pettigrew
The Lasombra
wrote:
>Equip and Transfer Equipment are two different types of actions, so you
>may transfer equipment and equip from your hand in the same turn, but
>you may not attempt to transfer equipment or equip from your hand
>multiple times in the same turn.
Action types don't matter to the No Repeat Actions rules as they
currently exist. They were explicitly changed when the Camarilla
Edition was released. They stopped being tournament rules and became
part of the standard rules of the game.
The prohibited repeats are:
Bleeding
Calling a political action
Card by name from hand
Card by name in play
--------------------------------------------------------------
See the FAQ, section 3.19
http://www.thelasombra.com/vtes_faq.htm#c3s19
--------------------------------------------------------------
See also the rulebook
http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/rulebook/
section 6.1.1
"A minion cannot perform more than one bleed action each turn, even if
he untaps."
section 6.1.6
"A minion cannot perform an action with the same action card or via
the same card in play (including from the minion's own card text) more
than once each turn, even if he untaps."
section 6.1.7
"A minion cannot perform more than one political action each turn."
--------------------------------------------------------------
See also LSJ Thurs, Sep 26 2002
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/msg/2fd5d84a5e47f900
> So Attempting diablerie twice is legal now.
Correct.
--------------------------------------------------------------
Per the ruling above, and the full context of that thread, you may
take the action to acquire all of the equipment from another minion as
many times as you have untaps or until you have all of the equipment.
I would like to see the ruling quoted above revisited and overturned.
Diablerie is an action provided by a card in play (the topored
vampire) and should not be repeatable on the same vampire. It should
be repeatable on multiple different vampires though.
Jason Scott
> >may transfer equipment and equip from your hand in the same turn, but
> >you may not attempt to transfer equipment or equip from your hand
> >multiple times in the same turn.
>
> Action types don't matter to the No Repeat Actions rules as they
> currently exist. They were explicitly changed when the Camarilla
> Edition was released. They stopped being tournament rules and became
> part of the standard rules of the game.
>
> The prohibited repeats are:
>
> Bleeding
> Calling a political action
> Card by name from hand
> Card by name in play
*snip*
> Per the ruling above, and the full context of that thread, you may
> take the action to acquire all of the equipment from another minion as
> many times as you have untaps or until you have all of the equipment.
>
> I would like to see the ruling quoted above revisited and overturned.
> Diablerie is an action provided by a card in play (the topored
> vampire) and should not be repeatable on the same vampire. It should
> be repeatable on multiple different vampires though.
So, that was the old ruling? Looking at it again, I see the thread was
dated 1997. According to the new rulings, vampires may hunt multiple
times in a turn, but may not attempt to remove a Path of Blood, right?
The Lasombra
wrote:
>So, that was the old ruling?
It was a tournament only rule.
> Looking at it again, I see the thread was
>dated 1997. According to the new rulings, vampires may hunt multiple
>times in a turn, but may not attempt to remove a Path of Blood, right?
Correct.
Carpe noctem.
Lasombra
James Coupe
<TheLa...@hotmail.com> writes:
>I would like to see the ruling quoted above revisited and overturned.
>Diablerie is an action provided by a card in play (the topored
>vampire) and should not be repeatable on the same vampire. It should
>be repeatable on multiple different vampires though.
How do you figure that? The action is provided by the rulebook. The
target is the card in play. That there is a legal target for the action
does not mean that the target is actually providing the action - unlike,
for example, burning Haven Uncovered or using Beast's built-in rush
action, where the action is clearly provided by a card in play.
--
James Coupe
PGP Key: 0x5D623D5D YOU ARE IN ERROR.
EBD690ECD7A1FB457CA2 NO-ONE IS SCREAMING.
13D7E668C3695D623D5D THANK YOU FOR YOUR COOPERATION.
LSJ
> In message <d74to2l6k7jmdog66...@4ax.com>, The Lasombra
> <TheLa...@hotmail.com> writes:
>> I would like to see the ruling quoted above revisited and overturned.
>> Diablerie is an action provided by a card in play (the topored
>> vampire) and should not be repeatable on the same vampire. It should
>> be repeatable on multiple different vampires though.
>
> How do you figure that? The action is provided by the rulebook. The
> target is the card in play. That there is a legal target for the action
> does not mean that the target is actually providing the action - unlike,
> for example, burning Haven Uncovered or using Beast's built-in rush
> action, where the action is clearly provided by a card in play.
Correct. Similarly, a Bum's Rush is not an action provided by a card in play
(the target vampire).
Bum's Rush is an action provided by an action card.
Diablerie is an action provided by the rules.
Transferring equipment in play is an action provided by the rules.
Kushiel
> Transferring equipment in play is an action provided by the rules.
Meaning a minion can keep trying and trying. Okay, thanks.
John Eno